What Happened to the Blue Wizards? - Epic Characters History & Middle-earth Explained

[@Longshanks1690]

Olorin: Alright guys, we have been sent on a very important mission to the mortal realm to help stop Sauron however we can. Eru himself appointed us to this task and no matter what happens, we will not, CAN NOT, waver from this task for the rest of our - Aiwendil: Oooh, a squirrel!!! Olorin: Hey, don't run off! Ugh, ok, just the four of us will defeat - Curumo: Wouldn't I look great with a ring of power of my own? I'm sure Eru will understand if I use it to stop Sauron myself. Olorin: NO, that is not our purpose! Ok, I guess it's just the three of us left guys. ... ... Guys?

[@Red_Lanterns_Rage]

sounds like a typical D&D party chat LMAO *Olorin has disconnected

[@di3486]

Haha on point

[@stephensmith3111]

Alatar and Palando: "SURFS UP!" [Cue up Dick Dale.]

[@joeschook792]

*Blue has left the chat*

[@Red_Lanterns_Rage]

@@joeschook792 no wonder rock & roll died.... LMAO!

[@shadowofchaos8932]

Almost every Tolkien fan as asked and speculated about the two blue wizards. But the creator and Eru decided to not tell the tale of their deeds

[@ThirdEngr]

And yet Gandalf was the first known to have discovered weed! 💨

[@johan.ohgren]

Don't think so. We see the stories through the eyes of the hobbits mostly. Bilbo wrote "There and back again", Frodo wrote about the ring and Merry or Pippin wrote about hobbit history. All other accounts and events are mostly told by people they encounter. Silmarillion is a collection of stories gathered through the ages.

[@timonsolus]

@@johan.ohgren : And presumably no hobbit ever went into the East and returned alive.

[@saberhamlinconmaverickknud4821]

I think that Denethor is one of the Blue Wizards! 😃

[@ThirdEngr]

@@pontiuspilate7631 That went right over your head. Of course it was just tobacco.

[@Brock-Lesnar-WWE]

One went to hogwarts to become headmaster and the other started flying raindeers giving out presents

[@MrHistory269]

Lmao

[@whentheyes4076]

True

[@marinaburatino]

headmaster... this word is funny.

[@Brock-Lesnar-WWE]

@@marinaburatino he was headmaster of hogwarts and the HEAD master when it came to grindelwald

[@TF2Scout..]

😂

[@Wild_Danimal]

I kinda like when mystery and uncertainty is just sprinkled in, like the blue wizards. It’s delightfully curious

[@Goldenhanded]

It’s a tragedy in my heart. I agree and love the theories that come from uncertainty & question, yet I’m DYING to know more 😭 but if I knew more, I’d lose that feeling of wonder and awe in what could be.

[@wetopam6338]

I don’t like that 2 of the 5 wizards are unaccounted for. I think it’s kind of lazy to not give a story to them.

[@60sfoley]

Agreed

[@60sfoley]

Do you think it’s a story arc that might be developed in the tv series?

[@johnbellus9117]

I enjoy the mystery of it as well! Feels "real" to leave some things vague.

[@umbra9913]

I like to think that Tolkien is Tom Bombadil and the wizards are all his friends in the war. Some made light in his life while others ended up falling into darkness and others wandered along and moved on as some friends do.

[@nmarbletoe8210]

Yes! That's why he is older than the other characters, because the writer is older than the book. Similarly, I have thought Tom Bombadil is us, the readers... I imagine a parent reading Tolkien to the kids, and Tom is a reminder to the kids that this is a story and we are inventing it and the monsters can't hurt us.

[@slimfahjah6746]

That is next level genius!

[@THEDonnyB]

Tom Bombadil is just Tom Bombadil. He just, is.

[@Nightguardian]

I like your last comment, about completing our tasks, even if nobody knows. I needed to hear that today.

[@NerdoftheRings]

Great job, my friend! The blue wizards are so intriguing! I've had lots of my subs asking about them. I think I'll just send them to this video. :)

[@madambutterfly1997]

People don't give the blue Wizards enough credit. You could pretty much attribute the entire Northern Theatres Victory to them. Because had they not been in the East It is believed that the easterling would have attacked the Lonely Mountain and Dale and the Iron Hills in a much greater force

[@wetopam6338]

Depends on which account one prefers, The one where they were successful or the one in which they utterly fail.

[@MasterBombadillo]

@@wetopam6338 Actually, Tolkien never said they were successful, and neither did he state that they definitely failed. However, the his early and late views aren't necessarily mutually exclusive on these points: for example, one could argue that the Blue Wizards were corrupted and did start cults, but like Saruman this was done to achieve their own ambitions. They proved to be more successful at this than Saruman too, mainly because they had much more time to influence the Easterlings, while Sauron was still taking shape during the Third Age. So these cults would rise in power, but when Sauron was ready to reclaim dominion over the people of the East, he also became a direct rival to the Blue Wizards, resulting in many wars, which Sauron had to prioritize over his invasions of the West due to his reliance on the East for supplies to feed and arm his armies.

[@MrHistory269]

That’s a scenario that’s certainly possible and I kinda like that idea

[@docartemis2878]

Given what we do know of the Blue Wizards, my thought was always that they somehow hindered Sauron’s plan and he retaliated against them, either killing or imprisioning in some horrific way that terrified Saruman and sent him back west with a truer understanding of Sauron and his power.

[@thomassevy4930]

Haha sweet. This was one of the questions I asked you about like a year ago when I found the channel. You also were the first people to ever reply to a question. Thank you for that. Keep up the good work.

[@MarionBaggins]

That is one of the many questions that wouldn't ever be answered, In Arda!!! Weird, when you referenced Saurman and those 2 Blue Wizards and said he might have Killed them, I thought that same thought at the same time...WOW!!! Thanks for Talking to us about another Mystery in Arda...Until the Elessar Stone's History, Marion Baggins Out!!!

[@kazorbrooks3980]

Saruman jumped from behind a rock and beat them with his staff. Got a good laugh out of that one

[@TF2Scout..]

Ahahahahgag

[@patrickols]

I don’t comment often but I truly enjoy your video on Tolkien and his writings. The Blues and what may or may not have happen to them is something that I always found interesting. I truly like the fact that we never got to learn what happen to them, it just a mystery like many that we have in the history of our own world. It make’s the stories of Tolkien feel like real history.

[@derekkeller5160]

I have always been so intrigued by the blue wizards.

[@christosvoskresye]

Here's an alternative: Saruman did not betray the Blue Wizards, because he was not yet evil; however, he saw them hold to their principles only to be killed, "failing" from a worldly perspective (as indeed Gandalf would have had he not been revived after his fight with the Balrog). This would have planted the seed of doubt in Saruman's mind as to whether it was possible to succeed while still remaining faithful.

[@Jesse_andrew]

I like this theory!

[@timonsolus]

Killed by what, though? And why would Saruman not have reported their deaths to the Council?

[@christosvoskresye]

@@timonsolus By (a great number of) men, like as not. And maybe Saruman did report their deaths, only they were not publicized afterwards. It would not be the first council to hush up a failure. Indeed, was the very MEMBERSHIP of the Council widely known?

[@christosvoskresye]

@@timonsolus "Hear ye another parable. There was a man an householder, who planted a vineyard, and made a hedge round about it, and dug in it a press, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen; and went into a strange country. And when the time of the fruits drew nigh, he sent his servants to the husbandmen that they might receive the fruits thereof. And the husbandmen laying hands on his servants, beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. Again he sent other servants more than the former; and they did to them in like manner." Matthew 21:33-36 Tolkien's works are not simple allegories, but perhaps it is not wrong to see them as parables. At any rate, it would not be out of place to have the servants of Eru Ilúvatar mistreated as were the prophets of old. "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered together thy children, as the hen doth gather her chickens under her wings, and thou wouldest not?"

[@timonsolus]

@@christosvoskresye : The Council was not a political organisation, and Middle Earth was not a democracy. The Council operated autonomously without government supervision, and did not release its findings to the public.

[@shadowofchaos8932]

Maybe the blue wizards sacrificed themselves to save the last of the Entwives found in the East.

[@tarynolyvia]

This is now my head canon, it’s the best blue wizard theory ever. Warmed my heart for Treebeard.

[@orrointhewise87]

"Then there are the two blueses...............you know I've quite forgotten their names...." I LOVE THESE GUYS!!!! They are for me the very essence of Tolkien and the many mysteries that he created Pure genius of him to leave their stories and fate completely unknown; it forces the reader to ignite his or her own imagination as to what happened to them. The beauty in that is theres no right or wrong answer, possibilities are endless Personally I like to believe that one fell into evil and the other tried to redeem him. I mean its difficult to slay one wizard but two? Either way I'm very glad and thankful the professor left them a mystery:))))))

[@Longshanks1690]

Yeahhhhh, no. It's not "genius" to leave everything open. Else the book would have ended with Frodo dangling the ring over the Crack of Doom, and we never find out what happens after.

[@orrointhewise87]

@@Longshanks1690 well I meant in the context of the blue wizards.........which is what the video was about soooo.............😐

[@omnitroph1501]

@@Longshanks1690 Leaving everything open is a horrible idea, yes. But a few things here and there are great, especially when concerning really obscure lore.

[@jackolantern147]

I personally believe they were slain. It would be able to tie in both of Tolkien's plans for them together. Maybe they went to the east and did hinder them, but then were slain, either by treachery or sheer overwhelming force. Heck maybe they came across a hidden balrog like Gandalf did and gave their lives to end the evil beast. After all, it is stated that multiple balrogs survived the war of wrath, yet only During bane was found, could another of them have hidden in the sands of the east?

[@wetopam6338]

Yet, their spirits didn’t return to Valinor? Even if they were slain in service to the Valar against Sauron?

[@NOIDEAIWILLJUSTUSEHAILEYIGUESS]

I agree, I find it most likely they cared more for the people they would teach, spreading their magic and philosophy teachings like monks. Hence why they never returned. If they were slain in any way their spirits would’ve returned.

[@MehIgotnothing]

@@NOIDEAIWILLJUSTUSEHAILEYIGUESS That's not necessarily true. If the Blue wizards diverted from their true paths in the way Saruman did then there's a good chance they faded into nothing. "To the dismay of those that stood by, about the body of Saruman a grey mist gathered, and rising slowly to a great height like smoke from a fire, as a pale shrouded figure it loomed over the Hill. For a moment in wavered, looking to the West; but out of the West came a cold wind, and it bent away, and with a sigh dissolved into nothing." The Lord of the Rings, Scouring of the Shire, page 1020.

[@NOIDEAIWILLJUSTUSEHAILEYIGUESS]

I always thought the blue wizards to have failed less like saruman did, but more like how Radagast did. Their missions were completed as a result of their failure. in radagast's case it was how obsessed he was with the natural world, with the blue wizards, it was their obsession with traveling and teaching the people.

[@MehIgotnothing]

@@NOIDEAIWILLJUSTUSEHAILEYIGUESS Well said, I wish we ultimately knew what happened to the Blue wizards. When it comes to the Easterlings and the Southrons I feel like they were ultimately doomed to fail. They were persuaded long ago by Morgoth and then by Sauron. I like to think the Blue wizards did just enough to stall the rise in the East and South.

[@Skaroosh]

Makes you wonder how many characters like the Blue Wizards were out there and what the course of Middle Earth would have been like without their untold contributions. And do Dwarf women truly exist or do dwarves simply spring out of holes in the ground? We may never know!

[@baschdiro8565]

Thorin has a sister, Dís, the mother of Kili and Fili.

[@RantingGreekGamer]

Thank you very much for your beautiful videos and content!!

[@aldrydd1]

It’s so nice to relax and enjoy your videos

[@emtiger3]

Thanks!

[@themutualfriend5286]

your videos always leave me feeling a little bit better about the world and my place in it, thanks.

[@ChiaraSiasat]

Great video!! This definitely an interesting topic as to what really happened to them. I still always wanted to know what happened to them. It would have been great if Tolkien had made more references to what happened to the Blue Wizards as well as Aiwendil at the end.

[@bermby]

I’m sure the homies are chilling with the Eastern men having a good time.

[@bermby]

@InSanctvs exactly, was due to an unruly hangover.

[@3.142-x3b]

@InSanctvs You think you've had a bad hangover? Have you had the "wake-up-riding-a-mumakil-into-Gondor" hangover?

[@bermby]

@@3.142-x3b epic

[@saberhamlinconmaverickknud4821]

@InSanctvs Wow, that is a very cool theory!

[@sorrybroo8303]

@@3.142-x3b propaganda by gondor

[@thebountyhunter993]

*'This is the way"* Good Stuff! 👍🏼

[@MenoftheWest]

This is the Way! Thank you, my friend!

[@thebountyhunter993]

You're welcome.

[@Steel-101]

@@MenoftheWest lol 😆 that would be an interesting story. The Mandalorian travels to middle earth and is trapped for eternity

[@donnatornay2537]

This topic of the Blue Wizards is so intriguing. It uncovers more questions I've not thought of. I almost would like to believe that SARUMAN played an instrumental part in the disappearance of the Blue Wizards. Job well done. I recently had eye surgery and could only listen. You blew this subject out the water!

[@christianbouwense4702]

Great video man, thanks

[@happywheeler4268]

So I have answered this question using the canonical published text. 1. As u stated about the theories, Saruman slaying both blue wizards is not very plausible because if Saruman did this, then they would have returned, same if Sauron killed them earlier. So they had to fail in their task. 2. According to the published text, we know that only Gandalf remained true to his purpose and he alone returned to Valinor. So the blue wizards had to fail. 3. In the appendices, Tolkien writes about the wise and white council, he states that the wise are made up of the istari and eldar lords. Tolkien also states in the Hobbit that the White Council is made up of wizards and eldar chiefs. Based on the dates and since Tolkien doesn't separate the wizards, then we have to assume based on these writings, that the blue wizards were present as published text trumps notes. 4. Whether the blue wizards became servants of Sauron or failed similar to Saruman, could be debated, but in truth I feel they set up cults and become corrupted similar to Saruman for one other reason--it states in the books that the Witch King was Saurons greatest servant so I don't think they served him. 5. So based on all of this we have to say from the published text, the wizards either survived and failed in their task like Saruman or killed. Those are the two options most befitting of the canon. But Saruman makes a demand about the rods of the five wizards in two towers, so most likely they are alive. 6. So the most probable solution here is that they survived and became corrupt like Saruman. Based on the text and the Tolkien equation. Edit: I do love the work u put into these videos Men of the West. I would eventually like to see u do a new lands and land of the sun video, even if it is short.

[@sinisterelephant8658]

I remember finding a part of a broken staff in Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor. It's probably not canon, and the wording was a bit cryptic, but it was along the lines of "tales of two strange men going to the east exist, but their ultimate fate, and if they even really existed, are unknown."

[@lhadzyan7300]

yeah those were the Blue Wizards reference!

[@simonmorris4226]

Definitely not canon.

[@avalonsfury9978]

Thank you for taking the time to research this and put it together. Always makes my day when you post. Keep it up!

[@generalobiwankenobi9327]

*"Hello There! Another happy landing! May the Force be with you always my friends!"*

[@MenoftheWest]

gEneRaL kENoBi, you are a bOLd one! May the force be with you as well, my friend!

[@generalobiwankenobi9327]

*"Thank you my friend"*

[@gang-ridertv5433]

You underestimate my power.

[@slimfahjah6746]

@@gang-ridertv5433 why has it been a month and the obvious reply is still hanging. Step up OP! 😂😂

[@Jim-Tuner]

The missions of the various Maiar in middle earth were related to their natures. The blue wizards were both the Maiar of Orome. Orome was the huntsmen of the Valar and he was also the one among the Valar who enjoyed being in middle earth the most. Given whose Maiar they were, if they were sent into the east it would have been to hunt something or search out something. It seems likely that their initial mission would have been to "hunt" Sauron in the east and that their other mission would have been to hunt and kill whatever powerful creature (dragons, spirders, balrogs, etc) in the east that Sauron might have used. As to their fate, I think its said elsewhere in the works that Orome loved middle earth and was reluctant to ever leave it. His Maiar may have had the same attitude. As to what effect they had the war, the full force of the easterlings arrived later in the war than all the other forces of Sauron. They were not present in full force for the battle of Minas Tirith. Something must have delayed them.

[@davesmith4839]

I wrote a fan fiction once about the blue wizards, and that they were the closest of all the wizards, with each other, and with Saruman. They went on the journey you mentioned with Saruman, but on the way home, Saruman does capture one blue wizard, and convinces the stronger of the two blue wizards that they must retrieve their friend, and brother, as he was captured, by Sauron. They go together to Mordor, as Saruman convinces the Wizard they don’t have the time to call Olórin or Radagast. Because if they do, Sauron will certainly have murdered their greatest ally, before those two could arrive, to help. Then, in a secret chamber Saruman has the less powerful blue wizard in a torture room, as he goes out with the more powerful blue wizard towards Mordor. When they get to Minas Morgul it is found that Saruman has conversed with the Witch King of Angmar, and it was a trap, so that Sauron, The Witch King, and the rest of his ringwraiths, could destroy that blue wizard in exchange for information, that Saruman can provide directly to Sauron over the next few centuries. He eventually, after getting all the info he can out of the living blue wizard, turns him over to Sauron, just after the Necromancer incident. Then, Sauron slowly over a couple years kills the last remaining blue wizard. Basically, Saruman got rid of any competition that would stand in the way of him seizing complete control in Middle-Earth. It was fun it was like 25 chapters long

[@Amiramekki]

Great video Yoystan. I really hope we get more answers about them in the Nature of Middle-earth book..

[@hydradominatus3641]

I prefer the original writings were they became Cult Leaders.

[@simonmorris4226]

Although that would depend on the ethics of the cults they founded as to whether they succeeded in their mission or not.

[@Jeneric81]

It certainly sparks the imagination

[@VV-xe4ym]

I like the idea that they taught some men in the east their ways, something like what the Valar did to the elves but on a much smaller scale.

[@danielshaw2473]

Yeah, creators of secret organizations of magic that brought the light of the undying west to the Dark East...to redeem the land tainted by the worship of the shadow of Morgoth, to inspire Rebellion to liberate the original birth place of the race of both Elves and Men...

[@LichmasterRoz]

They Blue themselves away to the undying lands

[@matheusburin]

LOL i see what you did there

[@teeeo]

Not even in the real world we don't know 100% of our history .Or we get it twisted by historian to historian and leaders .So not all heroes find their way in the scrolls even if they were essential in the story

[@josephwarra5043]

"There were many great men before Agamemnon, but they are unknown because they had no one the speak of them in sacred verse." -- Homer

[@xtremeranger30]

At least the Blue Wizards didn't become tree hugging hippies like Radagast.

[@Longshanks1690]

To be perfectly fair, Tolkien himself was a tree-hugging hippie. 😂😂😂

[@xtremeranger30]

@@Longshanks1690 True lol about Tolkien's hatred of industrialization, but Radagast blatantly abandoned his mission and the Istari.

[@ThirdEngr]

Gandalf was the first known Wizard to have an affinity for the weed. 💨

[@stephensmith3111]

Actually, they made it all the way to the East Sea, became stoked by the big waves, and invented surfing. Cowabunga, Dude!

[@Jim-Tuner]

Ragadast was a tree-loving hippie because that was his nature and the nature of the Vala he served. He served basically the goddess of "nature". The Blue wizards both served the hunter among the Valar. Rather than beocming hippies, it would be more likely that they had so much fun huting beasts in the easts that they forgot all about their mission.

[@IronDragon-2143]

I would love to read or even write a fanfiction about the 2 Blue Wizards.

[@nvf5282]

I love your videos! They always brighten my sundays

[@kazorbrooks3980]

I love your video like i always do, can sometime you make a video or tell me in the comments what you think would of happened if Gollum had not been treated as he was in Ithilien by Frodo and Farimir. do you think he would have betrayed Frodo in the same way or would have warned Frodo about Shelob. Once again I loved the video and I think your voice is one of the most soothing things in the world.

[@MenoftheWest]

Thank you so much Kazor, that means a lot! That is a good question! I think Gollum would still have betrayed them though, for he always wanted the Ring back, and I don't think any amount of compassion from others would have swayed his desire for it. Only the destruction of the Ring might have saved him, I think, had he been able to survive its destruction.

[@kazorbrooks3980]

@@MenoftheWest thank you

[@dr.albtraum7173]

I like to think of it as kind of a combination of sorts. Sauroman turned on the blue wizards in the east but their combined might was too much for him at the time (epic wizard fight) Sauroman then fled back to the west to continue his machinations knowing that he was unable to control the east as he originally planned (settling for creating uruks and orcs over commanding the Easterling armies)blues, being busy with disrupting sauron's plans, were unable to send word of sauroman's treachery back west.

[@nikolaseleftheriou1835]

First time I saw the most amazing trilogy of all time back in 2008 (when I was 10) that is The Lord Of The Rings and laid my eyes upon Gandalf and heard the most amazing quote (among other in the most amazing trilogy of all time) "A wizard is never late Frodo Baggins nore is he early he arrives precisely when he means to" I was most curious about the wizards of Middle Earth. I was most curious about the two Blue Wizards and my own personal speculation was that they died while trying to complete their quest. Now I know more. Thank you. Much love and support all the way from Greece

[@agronopoulus]

Great video as always! One of the most interesting subjects in Tolkien's work! Keep up the good work!

[@theWitch-KingofAngmar]

Ah, I am early. Yes the blue wizards, sent into the realm of my fellow Nazgul, Khamul. Not even I know what became of them.

[@douglasjenkins2770]

What has always got me thinking was Saruman's comment to Gandalf about not being happy until he has the keys to Isengard and buradur and "the rods of the five wizards" and purchase boots many times larger than the ones he owns. This suggests Saruman my hold the blue wizard's staves in Isengard

[@CanaleAV]

Clever fellows, those two: "Fighting Sauron in Middle-Earth? Let's get the hell out of here!"

[@snehilsrivastava6249]

Great video Yoystan. Please make an epic character history video on Fëanor too.

[@saberhamlinconmaverickknud4821]

This is one of your best videos!

[@TheKulu42]

Perhaps the Blue Wizards came to love the lands of the East and the people there and decided to stay. They may have felt obliged to help the peoples of the East after the War of the Ring. Maybe their efforts to hinder Sauron's plans sparked a civil war between factions worshiping him and those who wanted to be free of his influence, leading to deadly battles and ruined cities. The Blue Wizards could help these lands recover.

[@theo-dr2dz]

I guess they reached Tolkienian China, liked it there and settled down, forgetting about their mission and making a comfortable living doing fireworks shows.

[@TheKulu42]

@@theo-dr2dz Or they completed their mission but grew to love the lands of the East and decided to go into the fireworks business.

[@BartAllen]

Well Manwe also sent the Blue Wizards to Harad (the South) ~

[@GreenHavoc]

Great topics! Always fascinated and curious about the Blue Wizards. Love the artwork you use in this video! Also appreciated your concept of our own "head canons".

[@wobh688]

For a lot of reasons, I like to imagine that the peoples of the east and south had underground resistance to Sauron independent and unknown to the peoples of the west. So I like to think the Blue Wizards aided those resistance movements, but they were eventually caught and killed by Sauron. I don't think Saruman betrayed them, but, perhaps was awed or cowed into passivity. Sauron, sensing this, allows Saruman to flee. When Saruman returns to the west he has rationalized away his shame and convinced himself that to defeat Sauron, he should first try to appease Sauron--a plan which devolves during Saruman's contacts with Sauron by Palantir. This ties the mysteries of the Blue Wizards' fate and origin of Saruman's dual motivations in the white council, and his later words to Gandalf when he explains his plans.

[@johnhanifin1952]

Another quality video

[@ibrahiym3030]

YOYSTAN THANK YOU SOOOO MUCH FR BRO ON EVERYTHING IVE ALWAYS WONDERED WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BLUE WIZARDS!!😭😭😂 I LOVE YOUR VIDEOS -your loyal supporter Ibrahim.

[@MenoftheWest]

Thanks Ibrahim! I appreciate it man!

[@BlindDweller]

Never forget that Tolkien often based Middle-Earth (or Arda all together) on real historical and geographical events. Throughout history men who travelled “East” often are consumed by it (eg. Alexander the Great, Marco Polo, Captain Cook etc.) I think we’re supposed to assume that the Ithryn Luin simply wondered too far into the unknown, where life is so different and unexplored (back when Tolkien was writing Papua New Guinea for example was mostly unexplored!) The East in Middle-Earth in his writings were always regarded to be the mysterious, unforgiving vast expanse that few return from. Much like the ancient explorers of our world when they explored the East. I think the disappearance of them was just a result of how the laws of Tolkien’s world works. And I think Saruman only returned due to his greater interest in the outcome of the West rather than the “unknown”.

[@remnantuscuiviefea]

Mysteries of middle earth just make my heart swell with excitement. How wonderful it would be to go there and experience them first hand.

[@C-Jay_Underground]

I'm watching these Tolkien Lore channels when I'm falling asleep, it's so relaxing! I recommend anyone with sleeping problems to give it a try :)

[@bsa45acp]

I think of the Blue Wizards as 'The Lost Wizards' of Middle Earth... And leave it at that.

[@morrigandanae]

My theory is and will always be that the blue wizards went into the east and became friends with the Easterlings and they kinda just stayed there with their new found buddies. Maybe they were evil, maybe they weren't.

[@wetopam6338]

That is a viable third option. Will you help Sauron? No. Will you help the Valar? No. Will hang you hang out in Middle Earth, be merry, drink, and smoke herb? Yes.

[@juanmiguellucero3578]

That's what I think too. I personally don't think they are (or at least their old man bodies) dead considering that their spirits could return back to Valinor if that happens, thus would contradict the notion that they wouldn't and didn't return to Valinor (unlike Gandalf). Unless of course they, too, were corrupted like Saruman and did start some cults which would be a perfectly viable reason to bar them from ever returning to Valinor just like what happened to Saruman's spirit after his death at the hands of Grima Wormtongue.

[@iamsev1207]

I like this theory. Maybe they became fascinated with Easterling culture (or other people's culture beyond the Red Mountains) just as much as Radagast with Middle-Earth nature. They did not become evil, nor did they focused on their original mission; but their friendship with the non-evil faction of Easterlings inadvertently helped hinder the military power of the evil faction.

[@morrigandanae]

@@iamsev1207 I like that idea.

[@patrickT4482]

Speaking of enigma... I’ve always enjoyed that your videos end pushing in on the closed door because it’s left to our imaginations what our host looks like and what he’s doing in his hobbit hole. It’s a nice touch.

[@MemphiStig]

i like that Tolkien was honest about what he hadn't worked out yet. he didn't take that "it's for me to know and you to find out" approach so common to later authors. he approached it as much like an historian as he did an author. he was discovering as much as he was creating.

[@michaelgibson4067]

Great job thank you my friend! 🙏🏼

[@TheAmethyz]

What i love about Dwarf Fortress is that each game of it feels like you are creating new middle-earth like world and living in it. Its the best to have for long time same world and get to know its habitants and their wars and politics while your own fortresses arise and fall many times during that and you see relatives of your old dwarves and learn new stories they have to share using Legend viewer.

[@PoopaChallupa]

Men of the BEST LotR videos 👍

[@johnpatricktan5545]

nice video my friend

[@IanHeins]

Nice work dude thanks

[@theonesillyboy]

I seem to remember Saruman, in his speech in Isengard after defeat accuses Gandalf of wanting the crowns of 7 kings and the rods of 5 wizards, which to me would suggest that the Blue Wizards were still alive somewhere in the east

[@theonesillyboy]

also, I don't think Saruman would have killed the Blue Wizards, it wouldn't make sense, he was not actively trying to aid Sauron nor take his place at that time, he was still Saruman the White when he settled in Orthank and for many years afterwords, only recently changing into the Saruman of Many Colours some time before Gandalf visits him during the Fellowship storyline

[@patmullarkey7659]

I think there is huge potential for creating their stories. I don't think they failed, or were corrupted, but undermined Sauron's efforts in an underground resistance movement...and were killed.

[@dmdebruijn]

Well met- well met indeed!

[@darthgorthaur258]

Fantastic work as always my lord...

[@hughgedney3393]

A extremely great video as always Men of the West.

[@7someone]

It could be there was so much evil in the east and only two of five there they decided to let the others fend for the west. He must've left it vague on purpose, so that if he came back to it he could take up eastern adventures.

[@Jake_Steiner]

I tend to believe Tolkien's later writings on Alatar and Pallando, that they subverted Sauron's hold over the Easterlings to give the Free Peoples a better chance of victory. He obviously changed his mind for a reason and that is what should be regarded as canon. I like to think they stayed on in the east after Sauron's downfall to continue helping the men of the east rebuild and adjust to a life free of the Dark Lord's dominion.

[@plamen2530]

Great to see!

[@kratos6162]

I never clicked a men of the west vídeo so fast

[@CJfilms297]

If only the Amazon show was about the two Blue Wizards. Always been curious about them, great video!

[@themoz2217]

Plz make a video about saurons fortress Barad-Dur. It is so huge and ive always been curious about how it was build and what lies inside. Ty for your videos, big fan!

[@Steel-101]

YES!! Thank you so much Mr. West. I wanted to know the backstory of these two for a long time. Lol 😆 The video game 🎮 “shadow of Mordor” did a bad job of explaining their backstory. However, like you said before the game was not 100% respectful to the lore of Tolkien. I completely agree.

[@geviesanta3631]

I think it's possible that Saurman must've have murdered both of the blue wizards likely to betray them with a lust for power, under the influence of Sauron.

[@lhadzyan7300]

yeah I got the same idea, seems to me plausible that the three Wizards find Sauron at his unknown secondary fortess in the farthermost East which he used to going back and forward into there and Dol-Guldur, as he probably wasn´t in there always untill his second comeback with more strenght after the Watchfull Peace where he stayed longer and always there. And well in the confrontation to defeat him, Sauron saw the opportunity seeing pride into Saruman´s inner self and used him to posses and corrupt him so he could defeat his companions and then as he released him, leave away with a broken soul that easily got corrupted of guilt and defeat, and forgot what happened there and so... started his path of doom.

[@prabesh8277]

Wasn't Saruman independent of Sauron... Didnt he desire power for himself..

[@lhadzyan7300]

@@prabesh8277 yes but that happened after he returned from that Eastern travel alone, so something odd happened there. being more than he explained it. Maybe all corruption of him started there.

[@lopirobinson1991]

Tolkien apparently left a lot of mysteries in his work because he wanted people to do what you are doing by speculating and imagining parts of his stories. It’s in one of the makings of on The Return of The King dvd. He wanted to leave some things unanswered so others could add to his myths. To me it sounds like the ultimate way of intimately sharing his work with the world.

[@johnryanybanez7268]

Especially to us the eastern folks will make our own istories that are part of Tolkien Legacy. But not yet seem to make a fun made story. But I have my own thoughts and imagination.

[@jesuscoyt-munoz2753]

Interesting video yoystan and I have a personal head canon about these two istari. I believe some time during the second age they created rebel groups against the easterlings and perhaps that was why they never fully united in their wars with Gondor in the third age till perhaps when Sauron fled to the east after the white council attacked dol guldur he saw them and due to his hatred of them he either killed them or fought and brought them to the brink of death asserting his dominance over those lands which was how he mustered a massive army during the battle of dale and erebor, and if Sauron did kill them perhaps they went through the same thing Gandalf went through but instead of being sent to the west or east they returned to valinor in their younger forms and stayed there till Gandalf’s arrival at the end of the third age!

[@CJEdmunds]

Thank you for this! Hannon Leh!

[@harryunderwood9387]

In regards to why Curumo returned from the East without the other two Wizards, I think it stands to reason that he could have been afraid of staying in lands more directly influenced by Sauron (he was the Wizard more preoccupied with knowledge about that Maia after all), thus withdrew to study his arts from a more "isolated" area to reduce his chances of being corrupted. Provided he actually brought artifacts from the Eastern lands in addition, he would then have a larger reason to distance himself and them from those lands as well, for all the good it did him. Research (normally Qualitative) is often performed in an isolated environment to reduce the influence of outside variables after all. It's also possible that Curumo was jealous of the Blue Wizards if this was the case, since they were brave (or stubborn) enough to keep going through the East to sabotage Sauron while he could have felt his revolve waver, as we already knew he was jealous of Olórin for multiple reasons. We know that the Blue Wizards were Maia of Oromë the Valar of the hunt (who trained his folk to persue evil creatures), so it's not unreasonable to assume they were more resistant to Sauron's influence than the other Wizards, or at least were more actively opposing him.

[@foster21]

I think this mystery would have been a far better issue for the amazon show than a corrupting of existing lore as anything in the East or southeast could not be disproven, and their failure as characters and a show would bolster the core story.

[@AbhiDoesYoutube]

This is one of the most underrated channels on KZbin! Compliments aside, kinda a low blow that the Valar were like screw the east :P

[@Relics_of_Arda]

Excellent Video.

[@ELANSURF]

The catch in most interpretation is in how the inquiry is formed. The phrasing "the only wizard that MADE IT back was Saruman" implies that Morinehtar and Rómestámo were somehow limited from a return path. Conversely we might say "the only wizard who CHOSE to come back was Saruman", which creates a completely different light towards the fate of Morinehtar and Rómestámo. I go with this, that they chose to stay, to hold their mandate and station. Because of this, Sauran could not expand further to the east and north - a path which may have allowed him to conquer the globe through the opposite direction. Instead, the blue wizards far eastern line forced Sauran to turn his hunger for domination towards the weaker front of the west. - A conquest he should have been able to complete, except by the thin line traversed by a halfling, his few friends, and one grey wizard. - It follows that Saruman would have chosen to return, to build his own strength for his ambitions, which were likely still good enough, yet as a lessor to Morinehtar he sought his own path to greatness, built upon the seeds of narcissism which would finally grow against him. As for Morinehtar and Rómestámo, having fulfilled their destiny, they would have finally known that Gandalf and those of the west would have also fulfilled theirs, hence they sailed away from middle earth. Morinehtar and Rómestámo sought their own next path.

[@95kolman]

No views and 6 likes.........Good old youtube ever so reliable.

[@soul6180]

would it be possible that saruman killed them before returning to the west?

[@prickly10000]

They were slain by Skoth the singer and feed to his Caragors

[@caimillewolf6081]

I think it's a bit sad that we can't learn more about them, and I wish there was more information. But at the same time I kind of like the mystery of it all. I'd like to think that the blue wizards were able to disrupt Sauron's plans in the east in their own ways, and perhaps live a peaceful life somewhere in Middle Earth after their task was done.

[@ambrusbartalis8447]

I really would like to see a video about the strongest orcs (books & movie)

[@-aimdot-7495]

I bet that they disappeared like obi-wan

[@mikespearwood3914]

"Hello there!"

[@aarontrupiano9328]

@@mikespearwood3914 "general kenobi"

[@baschdiro8565]

"You are a bold one."

[@lihuayou8854]

The worst part about this channel is that i live in the uk and yoystan posts at 1am

[@ramsayburch6738]

Whether it was a matter of time and effort explaining these Istari, or if Tolkien left their tales purposely unfinished, I love that this aspect of the legedarium is left open to interpretation. To draining another flagon and continuing this discussion, my friends!

[@Zeithri]

I personally like to head canon two things, 1) They did hinder by convincing the Easterlings, maybe not all but most of them to not join Sauron. 2) They opened Magic Schools to teach Magic so that the people themselves could potentially defend against Sauron if he were to bring the smite upon them.

[@lhadzyan7300]

Oh yeah that could even make much perfect sense about the idea on the Blue Wizards suddenly dissapearing of total notice at the Middle Earth and Saruman returning alone from the East and therefore starting to turn into evil. It rather seems possible that whatever confrontation happened in the unknown far Eastern Middle Earth, Saruman was impplied then, maybe even doing some unknown previous arrangement with Sauron, or the latter one corrupting then the White Wizard without him noticing at first in all and thus himself being very involved with the dissapeareance of the Blue Wizards and silencying himself about the even or even forgetting everything eventually from his mind whatever had happened. The keys are the ideas that Saruman actually felt envy of Sauron by admiring his work, so he end up matching up his ideas too, but the seed of greed has been always from the very beggining underestimating him and being so much proud of him, having envy and contempt of his other more humble companions, Gandalf and Radagast respectively, as one was praised by Varda as the wisest for fearing Sauron and she set unwillingly the strife between him and Saruman quoting he wasn´t "the third one on the group" helding a more higher regard than the other Istari (Varda actually is the most powerfull being ever after Illuvatar, and even mightier than Manwe and/or Morgoth, just probably matched against Ungoliant at her full all strenght as they both represent total polar opposites of Creation, Pure Light and Absolute Darkness too, so her word is very praised, being very much a forerunner on higher scale on what Galadriel became for more human-level.) So makes perfect sense something wicked, twisted and odd unknown happened about him at the dissapeareance of the Blue Wizards, and also underestimating Sauron by pride, which was a big defeat in the Eastern Middle Age. This makes an ever perfect sense according to Sauron´s plot as well, as he could have stayed mostly at Dol-Guldur then too but also going unknown and unoticed back and forward from there and into the East, were seems happened to be some quotes of Tolkien of Sauron having a certain secondary fortess-base in the farthest East in some unknown placement - and makes a better sense how he also gathered easily most of the rings of the Dwarves then, except by the one of Durin´s lineage which recovered in the West by imprisioning Thrain at Dol-Guldur. Therefore the three wizards confronted Sauron but he saw the pride and oportunity on Saruman and possesed him and used him for destroying his other two companions. (There seems the regard that Saruman only sawed the Blue Wizards as equals to him or at least to Alatar and was also very accepting of his companion Pallandos although he was a lesser Maiar than them, but didn´t dismissed him as he did with Radagast, so he actually was in very GOOD TERMS with both Blue Wizards, therefore the idea of him leaving them and never ever bothering about them in the farthers East doesn´t seems right and indeed something FISHY was hinted there!!) It was something so disturbing that even by cause of Sauron or Saruman himself ERASED that memory and set up the story of them still in the East, which was indeed true but... they were no longer alive then. And just then Saruman goes into Orthanc and starts his own ambition for power rivalrying Sauron, so... something big and nasty untold happened in the East when the Blue Wizards dissapeared and only Saruman returned, of course Sauron was involved too, being this perhaps his nastier and cleverest doing ever as he seize the oportunity on corrupting the most powerfull Maiar of the group sent to defeat him using his pride against him!!

[@dmdebruijn]

I believe the “stranger” could still, perhaps, be Romestamo

[@dmdebruijn]

The setup of the show might be, Anatar vs Alatar. That would make sense

[@Sh0ckmaster]

I believe it's a quote from Professor Tolkien himself that "Every mythology needs a mystery element that cannot be explained". Tolkien said that Tom Bombadil was this element of LOTR, but an argument could be made that the fate of Alatar and Pallando fits this criteria too. My theory is they ventured in to the East and did all they could to improve the lot of the peoples there, trying to steer them away from the Harradrim and paying tribute to Sauron. Like their cohort Radagast, they were so consumed by this that they never did anything else and eventually forgot their original purpose. I've also seen fan-fics that had them show up as commanders of evil forces, allied with Sauron. Not really a fan of this though. Saruman was the only evil wizard that was needed in LOTR.