Azog and Bolg, Chieftains of the Orcs - Epic Characters History

[@Dare_To_Game]

Great video. I was very disappointed that Legolas killed Bolg in the film. I would have preferred to see Beorn destroy him.

[@tdubya75]

And his massive bodyguards that supposedly no dwarf could get past.

[@stegura83]

Could've been worse. Atleast Tauriel didn't kill him! 😆

[@simcha10000]

They could have focused more on the actual battle of five armies instead of invented peripheral plot lines. Seeing Fili and Kili die defending their kin and how Bomber was mortally injured and went looking for Bilbo.

[@jacob4920]

@@simcha10000 As I recall, the movie focused way more on the battle than the actual book did. Focused on it a bit too much, if you ask me. That entire third film was nothing but "eye candy" for fighting. The whole story, both book and movies, should have ended with Smaug's death.

[@tylerjones7592]

I love how Beorn killed Bolg by giving him a literal bear hug

[@stormruner9183]

It's always a great time learning about the lore of the dark creatures

[@orangexlightning]

I find the canonical depiction of Azog and Bolg far more interesting than the ones we got in the movies. It's honestly a shame that Bolg got sidelined. I'm all for giving us a reoccurring orc villain with a mutual vengeance subplot, but we could have gotten exactly that without changing Azog's death. Bolg wanting revenge for his father's death, and Thorin wanting revenge for Thror and the disappearance of his father would have been interesting enough. I feel like this approach, without the orcs taking up quite as much screen time as the movies could have expanded on the source material in a meaningful way, without undermining Smaug.

[@HaythamKenway383]

They also could have made it so Bolg killed Thorin's brother, Frerin, during the Battle of Azanulbizar, just to make Thorin's hatred for Bolg a little more personal.

[@Philipp.of.Swabia]

As far as I remember, there were two designs for Azog, which both ended up in the movie, the first design ended up being used for a different orc ( the one trying to cut of vandals fingers, while in search for his ring ), and of course the second one, which we got. As far as I remember, the first design was even made as an entire costume, sadly the final Azog was all cgi. :/

[@orangexlightning]

@@Philipp.of.Swabia I actually like Azog's design but it would have been better as a costume.

[@SalmanKhan-mo4bx]

two orcs chieftains, two dark lords. king and heir to the throne

[@iguachumontiel]

Your idea could have made the movie's plot and message deeper and, as a result, the orcs a little more fleshed out as villains.

[@Comicnut64]

ok here we go never thought we'd get orcs as epic character history vid rock and roll

[@jacobbornowsky4013]

I guess I never realized that both family lines were wiped out from this fued

[@teaguetozier7006]

As everyone else is mentioning, the movies did Bolg dirty. That being said, I actually like the character designs for Bolg and Azog in the films. If they wouldn’t have relied so much on CGI, they would’ve been pretty epic.

[@adrianseguras.9659]

Oh man. I love your channel so much, In my opinion, by far the best Tolkien-content channel on KZbin. Watching Your reviews of the ROP episodes was the only true way I was able to cope with so much anguish, disgust and the utter sense of inner violation. U GET IT... When u speak, it is as if, listening to Mr Tolkien speak, the same passion, love and understanding of effortless poetry. Maaaan. I got a crush on you haha

[@marionbaggins]

Man, this war really spread from different generations (of both Dwarf and Orc) across many years!!! Thanks for an ECH on the Famous Chieftains of Orcs *Definitely Third Age* Until "What does made Sauron so Powerful" Marion Baggins Out!!! P.s When you do your Videos on Dwarves do you write it the Professor's way?!!!

[@jesuscoyt-munoz2753]

Honestly the story we got in the books of Azog and Bolg was beautiful I’m not gonna lie. But using that in a film would be too short in making a villain which is why I like both versions in the books and films of Azog and Bolg because in a way the movie versions made them seem smarter more strategic than what we got in the books. All in all great characters and great video @MenoftheWest!

[@collinsobonyo8764]

Happy about this one. One of the creatures I didn't know much about.

[@istari0]

I really enjoy these types of videos from you; it's like a refresher on something I may not have read in some time.

[@thedreadtyger]

your videos are the happiest part of my Sunday evening viewing. thanks Yoystan. thanks too to all those regulars in the Comments. you also have contributed to the Middle Earth fix i crave every week.

[@abhijitpawar1568]

Great video! I wonder how the relationship between Azog/Bolg was with Durin's Bane.

[@joannakleinheksel-horn3494]

As always, that was beautiful 🙂

[@kaidorade1317]

Give thanks to the Professor for making bad guys great again!

[@orrointhewise87]

"Azog learned that day that the line of Durin would not be so easily broken." U know when Tolkien names an enemy, whether an orc, troll, or Balrog it has to b a strong, powerful enemy that has to b defeated by a certain being or specific manner. Makes me wonder how he was spawned or if he was trained or filled with evil after the fact 🤔 Strong foe for a stronger champion 🏆

[@HaythamKenway383]

It's likely he just managed to rise to power due to the barbaric and gruesome nature of orc society. Azog was likely the son of another great orc chieftain, and would've had better genetics than others, seeing as orcs believe that "only the strongest shall rule." Seeing as his son, Bolg managed to maintain power after his father's death, Bolg would've shared some of his father's strength, or perhaps the orcs had such great respect for Azog that they accepted Bolg as their leader.

[@MrXenon-hn7ju]

Good content as usual.

[@beezelbuzzel]

A heavy video. Well spoken, well told.

[@JonathanSias]

I was so excited when the first Hobbit movie came out. I thought, here is a neat anachronistic way to bring to bring regular viewers up to speed! It sets the tone and history for those who really don't have that context going into the short timeframe that is The Hobbit. It is a deep and powerful, painful theme that was terribly shortchanged in its reimagining in the Hobbit trilogy.

[@managersamuel]

Azog the defiler.

[@Relics_of_Arda]

He was cool but I dislike the inclusion of Azog in The Hobbit films. Spoiler warning ⚠️ * * * * The first reason why I disliked his inclusion is that he died before the events of The Hobbit. I also felt he was an unneeded antagonist that took away from the main purpose of the story, that is, Bilbo's adventure.

[@ryanmay1298]

I just re-watched The Hobbit Extended Editions and while they did get a lot wrong, if only those parts had been edited out I feel like a lot of what is on offer is really enjoyable. Nowhere need The Lord of the Rings of course but that's to be expected, still I found myself appreciating it much more than I had previously. This character history was well timed, a fine chance you might say. Thanks for your great videos. The tone in which you narrate adds a grand weight truly fitting of these epic tales.

[@brentchesson2179]

As much as I enjoyed most of Peter Jackson's adaptation of Tolkien's work the Azog and Bolg storyline form The Hobbit I always found especially egregious. They should have just stuck with an Azog flashback and had Bolg attack from Gundabad. They really borked that up in my opinion.

[@oscarstainton]

Azog may have been a fierce warlord, but he was no match for the doughty courage of Dain Ironfoot.

[@D2attemp]

I hope you can do a video on what if Arvedui decided to wait until Spring at the Ice Bay instead of boarding the ship

[@SunnyLovetts]

Epic content !!!

[@Rumple88.]

Keep up the good work mate 😁👊

[@FireLordJohn3191]

The goblins and dwarves in some of these art pieces look eerily like they belong in World of Warcraft.

[@hughgedney3393]

A second great video as always Men of the West.

[@exomake_mehorololo]

OMG never been this early

[@shadowofchaos8932]

Tolkien was great at building a storyline with a beginning and end. Azog began the feud and Thorin finished it with the help of Beorn. Peter Jackson used them as plot villains for the movies but like most things the books did it better.

[@geviesanta3631]

For as much as I like both the Hobbit book and the movies, I did not like the inclusion of Azog surviving the battle in the films. It just felt unnecessary, and it completely undermined Bilbo's story as a whole.

[@sharkchaos5160]

Great video.

[@paolos22]

Great Video, when I first read the Hobbit I loved hearing about Beorn crushing the Bolg and his body guard. Gutted the movies cheated us out of this so badly.

[@HealableToast]

Should do a character history on the goblin king. Although I don’t know how much content was written of him.

[@wedgeantillies66]

Most interesting insight is that in starting and perpetuating the blood feud with house of durin. Azof and Bolg by their actions destroyed the power of the northern orc tribes/power bases and left a shadow of themselves. That when war of the ring happened; erabor, dale and rest of the free people’s there had one less enemy to face.

[@paulwagner688]

Rhovanion had many years of peace following both the Dwarf/Orc war and the Battle of the Five Armies. What Orcs that fled south after Nanduhirion were killed by both Men of Gondor, Druadan, and Rohan as they tried to make footholds in the White Mountains. Cause you KNOW the Druedain would never let Orcs settle in THEIR mountains.

[@newyorkshireman]

I was dissapointed with the Jackson adaptation of Azog / Bolg. But the lore, is the lore and wonderful. Thankyou motw

[@Weather-more]

I really like Azog because of the movie. I mean like you like a villain but still. Got me more interested in Tolkiens works and I see that as a + overall.

[@richard8176]

A general question (or two): (1) What’s the hierarchy of power? (2) what’s the relevance of being a powerful being (e.g. could humans kill a barlog?)?

[@stevenv2190]

LoTRO - played this story very well.

[@timothyconover9805]

You can always tell a Darryl K Sweet painting.

[@a.r11384]

I don’t know if you have a video on what’s different with the hobbit and the hobbit movie but as since there’s is a a lot would love your review on the movies. I felt the rings of power seemed better than the movies

[@magmar7118]

I have a theory topic that you could make into a video: Could the balrogs be redeemed by the Valar back into the Maiar they once were?

[@simcha10000]

They where very likely those that began to sing with Melkor and yet is unclear if they had always been of a malicious alignment like a being such as ungoliant.

[@starkilr101]

Even though things were altered for the movie, I liked Azog and Bolg. And they looked fantastic

[@TheLordUrban]

I believe that Azog and Bolg were either Boldogs or descended from such creatures.

[@Abebabe413]

We dont know for sure if Bolg had a son, but its most likely in his 150 year rule he did, so the line of Azog probably lives on!!

[@IsoscelesWrestling_Official]

Hello

[@JonasFilberg]

🙏🏿🔴

[@hazwanhashimhjibrahim]

Damn its 3am here,

[@alanmike6883]

I wonder how much authority they had. While they served sauron they were like orc kings

[@dustinhickey3473]

Wow I’m early

[@schirmc1]

I need to reread the hobbit. I saw the title and thought, why do an epic history on a movie character? Admittedly my lore for the dwarfs are pretty thin. Never been that interested in them unfortunately.

[@whiteknightcat]

Though given a large part in the films, Bolg is barely mentioned in The Hobbit. And of course, Azog, long dead, was resurrected for the films as well, something I and many others take issue with.

[@schirmc1]

@@whiteknightcat it would be easier to say what I agreed with in the hobbit movies. The film opening was nice. That’s about it.

[@whiteknightcat]

TENTH!

[@toshiarichardson9627]

And yet in Hollywood land azog kills thror and escapes to be killed by Thorin later and bolg dies by legolas hand

[@josefmalsher9096]

I thought Azog and Bolg were goblins and not orcs as described in The Hobbit book?

[@cm275]

Tolkien used the terms somewhat interchangeably. He mostly called them goblins in The Hobbit but Orcs in LOTR. “Orc is not an English word. It occurs in one or two places [in The Hobbit] but is usually translated goblin (or hobgoblin for the larger kinds).” -J.R.R. TOLKIEN, PREFACE TO THE HOBBIT

[@josefmalsher9096]

@@cm275 Okay! thanks a lot for the answer.

[@DVDFRMN]

Is Varg watching? Let's find out...

[@ajgibson1307]

God bless

[@jwouter]

But who was Bolgs mother …….😂😂

[@Philipp.of.Swabia]

Is Bolg Azogs Literal son ?

[@MadMikeRyan.]

In the books, yes Bolg is Azog's natural son, orcs have children the same way people do. But in the Jackson films orcs are spawned from vats, so Bolg wouldn't be Azog's real son in the films. That's one of the more glaring plot holes Jackson inadvertently created in his adaptation.

[@Philipp.of.Swabia]

@@MadMikeRyan. I see, thank you ! 👍🏻

[@00martoneniris86]

What if sugestions What if Lord Azaghâl killed Glaurung What if Lord Girion killed smaug What if Sauron killed isildur What if celebrimbor never or dident send the Elven Rings away What if beleriand dident sink into the Sea What if the sons of Fëanor killed Elwing Eärendil What if morgoth fel in love with ungoliant What if morgoth Gifted the silmarils Tho ungoliant What if Beren took all the silmarils from morgoth What if morgoth returnd during the 4 Age What if the Race of the Petty dwars survived into the 4 Age What if Finwe survived What if Glaurung survived What if durin 6 killed durin Bain

[@mikeymike415psn5]

The films don't much follow the books at all now do they? Love the films but now I feel cheated.

[@danepatterson8107]

Rings of Power exposed a real hatred among so-called Tolkien fans: when PJ changes things to suit him (including the sacrelige of Frodo casting away Sam in favor of Gollum) like Azog, or when PJ makes things up to suit him like Bolg (or Tauriel), the fans turned a blind eye. When Rings of Power did anything, these same fans villified the writers, and the actors, with such vitriol it was horrific and amazing. I stopped following almost everything related to Tolkien online since then... It was a deeply troubling and depressing thing to have to watch...

[@golwenlothlindel]

??? I think you have a serious case of selective memory my friend. Most fans criticize Peter Jacksons lore changes heavily, although many are far more defensible than what RoP did: on grounds of the difference in needs between genres, or what works well visually versus in writing. Certainly the moment of Frodo distrusting Sam is one people dislike a great deal. The Hobbit movies have even more indefensible changes, such as Tauriel's romance plot (the mere existence of the character isn't a problem, making up background characters is always fine). Or indeed when PJ had Thranduil say that dwarves are definitively mortal, when everything in the actual text points to the contrary. Either they didn't understand what the word "mortal" actually means within Tolkien's work, or they didn't pay very much attention to wording when they were writing dialog. I have no idea what you are talking about here. Peter Jackson gets loads of criticism from fans, all the time. Even fifteen years after the fact you'll find people ranting about all the lore changes they didn't like in the LotR movies or The Hobbit movies. Now, I will say that the Rings of Power exposed (to the public beyond the fandom) the racial biases of a certain portion of the fandom. But this should not have been a surprise to anyone who was in the fandom prior: these people have been there since the very beginning. This is the main reason why the discourse turned so ugly. I will stress however, that most criticism of the show is not racist in nature and is no different in tone from the criticisms leveled at Peter Jackson. For basically as long as the fandom has existed anti-racist fans have been creating safe spaces within it, and it's not as if those safe spaces no longer exist.

[@mikej8382]

​@@golwenlothlindelgreat point here, also Rings of Power doesnt even seem like it is in the same world.

[@maximus3160]

Yea... no. Many fans have criticized both PJ and the RoP mess. You have apparently have not been paying attention.