How Did Sauron's Plans Change Over the Ages? Middle-earth Explained

[@TheNotoriousCheeto]

How Sauron won: Sauron: "And also, put a door on that Pit of Doom entrance, and make sure it is locked."

[@halamadrid5526]

Lol

[@timonsolus]

But what you didn’t know is that Frodo has lock picking skills from his mis-spent youth in Buckland…

[@halamadrid5526]

@@timonsolus really ??

[@funman9702]

@@timonsolus No need, just put the lock slightly off the ground.

[@Raz.C]

There's a part of the book that explains that because of the tumults of the volcano, that path is always being broken and strewn with rocks. His servants are constantly having to maintain the path. Putting a door there would be impractical, especially if it were to get blocked from the inside by fallen rocks, preventing Sauron from entering. A LOT of slaves would lose their heads over that kind of whoopsie. In fact, it probably DID happen at some stage, which is why they knew better than to place a door there, by the time Frodo came along.

[@Longshanks1690]

Morgoth: _Gets yeeted into the void_ Sauron: I guess I’m in charge now.

[@indio4-215]

And then Sauron proceeds to get thrown into the Void as well 2 ages later. I'm curious as to Melkor and Sauron's reunion and what Sauron has to say for himself after his failures, especially should Melkor find out his Chief Lieutenant was defeated by a hobbit of all things.

[@indio4-215]

@hunter christensen Then how do you explain the quote in the Valaquenta, specifically, of the Enemies section? Where it specifically says "but in after years he rose like a shadow of Morgoth and a ghost of his malice, and walked behind him on the same ruinous path down into the Void."

[@indio4-215]

@hunter christensen I'll still stand by what I said until I receive confirmation that Sauron was most certainly not sent to the Void. That is, if the main works or the supplementary material didn't elaborate on that topic.

[@istari0]

@@Enerdhil I put this one into the category of things Tolkien would have at some point gotten around to making consistent if he had lived long enough. Besides the Void where Morgoth was sent to by the Valar after the War of Wrath, I think there is a reference to Morgoth retreating and hiding a void when Tulkas first came to earth but it has to be something different as Morgoth was able to return from that one on his own.

[@paulbrickler]

@@Enerdhil They both came from the void. They'll both be back in the Dagor Bragollach at the end of Arda. But I tend to think that while Morgoth was forcibly cast out by the Valar - since he's also a Vala - Sauron was left to wither as a disempowered, unbodied spirit. In Middle Earth. Much like the fate of Saruman after his death in the Shire.

[@andrewmchugh9545]

Crazy how Sauron once had good intentions that became obsessions and Morgoth twisted him into pure evil! Can't wait to see how they portray him in the new Amazon Second Age series!

[@shanenolan8252]

The road to perdition ( hell ) is paved with good intentions

[@karerabbe7829]

Gonna be butchered ofc:/

[@VV-xe4ym]

@@Enerdhil You know it lol

[@Lengsel7]

He'll start out gay, and eventually become a straight, white, evangelical republican.

[@AnthonyBerkshire]

Crazy

[@orrointhewise87]

"You cannot hide........I seeeeeeee yoooouuuuuu........" And this is what made him a better villain than almost any other character He watched and waited and learned. His greatest triumph was bringing down the Numenorians from the inside. His biggest mistake however was moving in haste towards the end; if he had stayed to his course the world would have fallen.

[@Raz.C]

Always bear in mind that the heroes of the last alliance managed to defeat and kill Sauron, while he was wearing the Ruling Ring. Heroes like Glorfindel, Galadriel, Elrond, Aragorn and Gandalf would also have been able to kill Sauron in a physical battle (presumably). His REAL strength was his ability to dominate others and cause them to fight for him, rather than fighting for himself. Anyway, the point is, even if he had conquered the world, a daring raid by a select group of heroes could still have killed Sauron.

[@heresjohnny4836]

im gonna have to agree with this especially if he got to keep saruman and deenathor under his corruption longer, would have done way better at his goals

[@XJ0461C]

To be fair, that one was on Ar-Pharazôn. He was the one in haste due to his fear of dying of old age. Tar-Mairon should have returned to Mordor while the Great Armament sailed to Aman. But he could not possibly have been expected to predict that Eru himself would interfere. He is my favorite character.

[@The_CGA]

He tried patience in the third age over and over again, returning to Dol Guldur again and again, but once he knew someone else had his precious, he couldn’t use his greatest power anymore-he lost his patiencr

[@orrointhewise87]

@@The_CGA a helpful reminder in life to b certain

[@Longshanks1690]

As Hello Future Me pointed out in his video on the subject, Morgoth is the clearest analogue for Lucifer in Tolkien’s mythology as a fallen “angel” who was once held in high prominence but became the enemy and rival of God. By contrast, Sauron doesn’t represent that but Nietzsche and the idea of the death of God, as Sauron attempted to supplant Eru as the figure of worship for the peoples of Middle Earth as a God-King. He doesn’t set himself up _as_ God but deliberately maintains that Eru is a fiction of the Valar so he can be the central figure in what was a deliberate creation of a new order, replacing both Eru and his former master in Morgoth. I appreciate that Sauron works best as a Lord kept in shadow who we next to never seek but a part of me also regrets that because he sounds like such a fascinating character who could be explored more in depth for what he wants and believes, but we just don’t have enough material to make that kind 9f analysis of him.

[@vitalguillin1177]

IInteresting, but it seems Sauron wish that Valar were no more concern by Middle Eath destiny, and at last "let him rule" this part of Earth, most because Valinor have been separated physically from "material world"...i don't think he looked himself as a "rival" of Eru, he knew the overpower and magnificence of his creator, and was wise enough to not daring compare with Him, but maybe push this idea in men imagination instead. it's more conform with his deceiving manners? He did that with morgoth "concept as god" in his numenorian time, but changed "tactic" after the falling of this realm. I don't remember (both in movies and the Silmarillon) any form of cult or religion that worship him? But i maybe wrong.....I feel Sauron wanted (in 3rd age) just be seen as the "king of Middle Earth" by everybody.....(I know it's close of your own analysis...)

[@FlagAnthem]

Morgoth could be also be the beast of the Apocalypse and Sauron its false prophet, tricking the men to worship and imposing its mark on them.

[@coregoon]

I'd say it seems likely that Sauron's earlier elven incarnation would make an appearance in the upcoming second age series. I hope they get the oppertunity to explore his character more there. I, probably like many others, have very high hopes for the series. Trying to temper my expectations so as not to be disappointed is difficult, with something as fascinating as this. 😆

[@tylersoto7465]

Yeah that what I always thought morgoth is Satan and sauron as the antichrist lol

[@coregoon]

@@tylersoto7465 If you're talking biblically then there isn't really any "the antichrist". The term antichrist is usually used to refer to those who don't follow the Christ (or those who oppose his teachings), so the comparison's a bit odd.

[@IronDragon-2143]

I find it amazing how even the Dark Lord goes through detailed Character Development and even go through an Arc of his own. Really adds more weight to his final defeat in Return of the King.

[@MenoftheWest]

Hey everyone, thanks for watching and thanks to Gavin Dorrigan and SnowWarning for commenting a few clarifications, so I would like to add an addendum/minor correction here: Sauron did seek at first to enthrall and rule the Elves before he learned they could not be swayed to his cause, then he reclaimed and dispersed the Rings of Men and Dwarves, seeking their servitude in destroying the Eldar. Hope that clears things up, thanks again!

[@istari0]

I was wondering about that myself; thanks for the clarification!

[@glennross85]

When random youtubers have more credibility than msm

[@micahp.4356]

No thank you!

[@archivesofarda986]

Sorry, bit out of context...but can we talk about how TLOTR was in public domain all the way until 1996...please?? Like imagine the amount of content we could have had if that was still the case.

[@jackolantern147]

What if Ungoliant remained loyal to Morgoth and her broods aided him in the first age? How would the first age unfold differently?

[@MenoftheWest]

Great question! Likely the Silmarils would have been devoured, as would many of the Free Peoples. Melkor likely would never have been besieged and the conquest of the Noldor would have been far shorter. Quite a grim what if indeed.

[@penelopegreene]

Yes, but Ungoliant represented pure hunger, and her mythic status aced Melkor's characterisation. In the end, her would have devoured her ally, had she not ate herself first.

[@alexv3357]

@@penelopegreene A great civil war between Morgoth and Ungoliant might also have provided a great opportunity for the Ñoldor

[@penelopegreene]

@@alexv3357 only if they kept focus. Given what we know... Idk 🤔

[@jackolantern147]

@@MenoftheWest Sounds like an epic video idea for this Halloween. Just a thought.

[@SNWWRNNG]

Regarding the Rings, Sauron wanted to use them to enslave the Elves originally, as they'd be the most helpful people in re-shaping Middle-earth to Sauron's ideal of order, with him as the absolute ruler. Only after the Elves managed to take their Rings off before Sauron could dominate them, and Sauron conquered 16 major Rings after Eregion fell to him, did he distribute 7 of those to Dwarves and 9 to Men in order to subjugate these peoples instead; the Elves had proven that were too wary of him and all evil to serve his plans.

[@alexv3357]

The one thing that Sauron I think truly forgot was actual politics. He never really had a specific platform to offer potential constituents

[@MenoftheWest]

Love it 😂

[@KuLaydMahn]

Youre not wrong

[@tylersoto7465]

Yea he could of helped make a democratic republic here in middle earth with the dwarves, men and hobbits and run for president and just promise people more salted pork, ale and pipe weed on the market lol

[@alexv3357]

@@tylersoto7465 But also, think about what Sauron really had to offer. He could have created a regime that while proximately managed by mortals to their own ends was guaranteed against instability and outside aggression by the godlike powers of an immortal patron. Moreover, he should have shared his knowledge and the fruits of his immortal learning to build stronger allies and foster international goodwill.

[@JAKphoenixify]

Sauron should have read Von Moltke's guide to war: "no plan ever survives first contact with the enemy"

[@MarkusJunnikkala]

He learned to delegate and outsource, just sitting in his tower, barely even taking physical form. Genius!

[@yodaslovetoy]

Typical middle-earth manager....

[@andrewplck]

The CEO of Evil Inc.

[@lopirobinson1991]

I mean Morgoth did the same thing basically 😈 After the beginning years of the first age. Though Morgoth was a little more, blunt about it.

[@jonothandoeser]

He was not ABLE to take physical form!

[@abhijitpawar1568]

Great video as always Yoystan! Here is an idea for a video: What if Sauron accepted Eonwe's mercy and went back to Valinor?

[@origami83]

Then lord of the rings would not have happened.

[@therealelderking5830]

I would imagine that Sauron could technically be redeemed at that point, but it would be a long and tedious process, and he would never be able to go back to being Aule’s chief smith, though he would remain powerful.

[@33Dakes]

Eonwe was only a herald and could not pass judgement however if Sauron had returned to Valinor, he would of eventually been redeemed. Hard to say, as Sauron definitely loved power and knew was supreme evil being left. He used it to his advantage.

[@stephenpickering8063]

@@33Dakes I don't know he would have been redeemed. He might have stayed like Melkor, bitter and resentful at his defeat and humiliation. Possibly when the latter is released from his 3 ages of imprisonment he seeks to recruit his former lieutenant again and that would have been an interesting choice for Sauron. The issue I never understood, albeit it was necessary for LotRs to be created, was the failure of the Valar to forefill their oath to protect and nurture Middle Earth. Twice they defeated Melkor, then left the world apart from Aman to fester in darkness. :(

[@karerabbe7829]

You just made my day after a 12 1/2 hour shift and a whole weekend of work❤️ Bless

[@none23517]

thats a long long shift. what do you do lol

[@apdarkness905]

Sauron was a great craftsman, schemer, and a mighty Maiar, but with his fall to evil his plans left much of Middle Earth forever scarred. Many suffered great wrongs because of his greed and lust for power. Boromir, Théoden king and many of his house, and for all his villainy even the Stoor Sméagol were among his many victims. It makes me wonder, did the great ranger Yoystan suffer any wrongs or lose dear ones to the Dark Lords evil works upon Arda?

[@MenoftheWest]

This ranger has lost many friends and family members to servants of the Dark Lord. But that is why we press on, in the hope to have justice for them and make peace for a brighter day.

[@jerryx2495]

@@MenoftheWest there is always hope, after all

[@rhorynotmylastname7781]

Basically, every time a Numenorean king got bored and decided to pick on him, he had to change his plans.

[@MenoftheWest]

Lol that’s a good way to put it 😂

[@therealelderking5830]

I imagine Sauron sitting in Barad dur, sighing every time a new king does something stupid. Or imagine him spitting out his coffee during breakfast when he reads that Ar Pharazon wants to capture him.

[@_semih_]

@@therealelderking5830 lol. And remember that Sauron literally cast out all the mighty Numenorean ships' out of the sea like they were made of paper and the Numenorean people feared the light in his eyes when they saw him on the highest ship that was cast (by himself)

[@therealelderking5830]

@@_semih_ I believe that was in Unfinished Tales, when Sauron literally surfed to Numenor, yeeting the ships out of the way and then started spontaneously giving a speech.

[@_semih_]

@@therealelderking5830 It was in "The Lost Road and Other Writings" book. Yes this is what Sauron did to our egoist Numonoreans: "Guards were set at the haven of Moriondë in the east of the land, where the rocks are dark, watching at the king’s command without ceasing for the ships’ return. It was night, but there was a bright Moon. They descried ships far off, and they seemed to be sailing west at a speed greater than the storm, though there was little wind. Suddenly the sea became unquiet; *it rose until it became like a mountain, and it rolled upon the land. The ships were lifted up, and cast far inland, and lay in the fields.* Upon that ship which was cast highest and stood dry upon a hill there was a man, or one in man’s shape, but greater than any even of the race of Númenor in stature. ‘He stood upon the rock and said: *‘This is done as a sign of power. For I am Sauron the mighty, servant of the Strong”* (wherein he spoke darkly). “I have come. Be glad, men of Númenor, for I will take thy king to be my king, and the world shall be given into his hand.” And it seemed to men that Sauron was great; though they feared the light of his eyes. To many he appeared fair, to others terrible; but to some evil. [J.R.R Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien, The Lost Road and Other Writings, p.73-74]

[@Gavindorrigan]

One nit pick is that the rings were all originally for elves. The elves being resistant to their corruption lead to sauron attacking them, and then taking the rings he would give to men and elves by force.

[@lopirobinson1991]

I wonder if Sauron was still loyal to Morgoth after Morgoth fell. Or if he was just pretending for Men so they would worship Morgoth.

[@33Dakes]

I’ve seen this asked before and it is very complex to answer. Sauron was sort of the master of his own being but yet the mightiest of Melkors servants. After Melkor/Morgoth was thrown into the void, Sauron fled in fear. But Morgoth had left a lasting impression on him. Sauron indeed followed Morgoth still but he also knew Morgoth was no longer present in the physical world so he knew he was supreme evil being in physical world. I think if Morgoth came before the end of days, Sauron would once again bow and serve Morgoth. As it is foretold in the prophecy.

[@therealelderking5830]

I often wonder how much good Sauron could have done if he never joined Morgoth. He is at least as powerful as Eonwe, Arien and Osse, so I believe he would be a driving force for good. Perhaps he might truly become Annatar, an emissary of the Valar.

[@sethmiller2534]

As someone who has so much power, I believe that he would likely just change his plans to pursue you. All people would do that realistically. You are amazing my young Yoy

[@Sletty73]

I might remember incorrectly but I think that Saruman role was not that of a Sauron's servant nor he was allied with him. Saruman wanted to take the ring for himself and claim the throne of middle earth. And he would have had the strength to claim the ring (as also Galadriel would have had). Am I wrong?

[@MenoftheWest]

You’re not wrong at all! Saruman proved to be a double-traitor in the end. However, he fell prey to Sauron’s overall plans. He served as the Dark Lord’s puppet against Rohan. I’m sure Sauron was angry when Saruman betrayed him but didn’t care too much as he had served his purpose of destruction overall.

[@morgant.dulaman8733]

@@MenoftheWest You know, ever since I read the "Mewlips" poem from The Tolkien Reader, I wondered what it would be like if some last great evil creature from Sauron or Morgoth's forces, such as the last Balrog, a Black Numenorian sorcerer, or even Saruman tried fleeing to some far away pit in the northern swamps where they coerced these creatures into their service, and from that obscurity, tried calling whatever evil creatures they could, be it scattered orcs and goblins, surviving spiders from Mirkwood, wargs, etc. It could be a last attempt at an evil kingdom, not nearly as powerful as Sauron's but with the possibility of becoming a real menace in the future if it wasn't dealt with presently. Honestly, with Tolkien's idea of a sequel in mind, had Saruman fled rather than trying a last bit of vengeance in the shire, that might have made for a decent setup for his book, alongside with the conspiracy, as it could have been a new attempt by Saruman to grasp control in Gondor the way he did in Rohan-through his voice- in a manner emulating how Sauron brought down Numenor and proving Gandalf's warning about "Other evils" arising that they could not foresee.

[@darinstrohmenger4451]

I'd really love to see a video on why Arigorn didn't use the dead army to destroy all of mordor's forces before releasing them. Huge fan of you guys, but saw a video recently about the dead army and want more content!

[@lukehutchinson499]

He realised that unemployment was a big factor in middle earth and decided that the best way forward was to industrialise and create commerce for the free peoples

[@sweeperboy]

Yes, but what was his Tax Policy?

[@Soulprismatics]

And bring democracy. Yes. I heard that, too. He also invented an autobahn from mordor to the free lands to accelerate progress.

[@tylersoto7465]

Lol what's his gun policy lol

[@tylersoto7465]

Eh the industrial forges of the dwarves in erabor can create a industrial revolution lol

[@hodgrix]

Looking at it this way Sauron really did have a very well thought out indestructible plan. It was by sheer luck or as you say divine intervention that Frodo and Sam made it TO Modor, made it to Mount Doom, and that Gollum luckily fell into the fire. There really was no way for Sauron to account for such a thing. His only mistake was as you say choosing evil.

[@thefunden9128]

8:10“While the Numenoreon Kings faded from the world Aragorn: *Laughs in Descendant of Numenor*

[@_semih_]

Aragorn was not belongs to the line of the royal Numenorean family. He is a descendant of Silmarien not the Kings (She was the sister of a Numnorean King so she lost her right to be a Queen and the royal family). Even 3 of the Nazgul had more Numenorean blood than Aragorn lol (Tolkien noted at least 3 of the Nazgul were high Numenorean Lords)

[@akuinator6350]

Great video on the whole, but two things I have to point out. Sauron didn't originally intend to give rings to the men and dwarves, they were originally all supposed to be for elves so he could subvert them. When they realized his treachery after the making of the One, Sauron had to physically go to war and rip the rings from Celibrimbor's corpse at Eregon before he was able to pass them out. Only then did he set up his "Free Magic Ring" Van outside the other races' neighborhoods. The other thing was that Sauron, far from being blaise about the idea of the One being used against him, was terrified of the idea. Tolkien mentions in his letters that if the ring was successfully wrested into the control of a new master, like Aragon, then the result for Sauron would be much the same as it being destroyed. Sure, evil would have still prevailed in the end through their corruption, but Sauron didn't want some abstract idea of evil to prevail. Sauron wanted *Sauron* to prevail.

[@shadowofchaos8932]

Sauron's revenge against the Elves and men cost him everything. If he concentrated on the Men he may have been victorious.

[@bradyweed4124]

Fun fact: Aulë had exactly 2 named Maiar in his service: - Mairon (Sauron) - Curumo (Saruman) To quote Nerd of the Rings, “total 0 for 0 on your maiar”

[@therealelderking5830]

But wait, it gets better. In earlier versions, the Balrogs were the Maiar of Aule as well, and they joined Melkor. Aule really sucks at keeping his Maiar loyal doesn’t he?

[@kfgrip]

I believe Sauron may have been trying to come up with a way to free Melchor/Morgoth from the void!

[@vitalguillin1177]

I think Sauron was aware of this prophecy saying Morgoth will come back at the "End of Times", so he knew too, that he's not strong enough to do it by himself, so it was better to use his time and power to try to rule Middle Earth while the "boss" was away, as he will explain Morgoth he was "preparing" his return...?....maybe....Lol!!

[@geviesanta3631]

Here's a what if Theory video that would be great to make, "What if Sauron willing surrendered himself to the Valors after the War of Wrath?"

[@vitalguillin1177]

Answer :- End of the story - So it would be a big problem for Tolkien to find a decent suite and ending of the saga.....

[@DragonoidBerserker1]

Speaking of subtlety, I like to think that the reason why the Dwarves weren't nearly as corrupted as Men in the Second Age was due to the fact that they were made to be stubborn, resistant, and strong willed by Aule, Sauron's former master. A subtle showing of Aule's superiority in craft.

[@Americarnaud]

I thinks it’s canon (correct me if I’m wrong) that the reason the dwarves weren’t corrupted and didn’t become servants of Sauron is because they’re not children of Iluvatar, they were created by Aulë. So Sauron kind of had no direct power over them or something

[@loganw1232]

Not sure that specifically the case, I think it’s more due Aule making them resilient to corruption than not being official children of Eru, though Dwarves were adopted by Him.

[@hodgrix]

that's a really good insight! it totally fits and is a reminder that Sauron is just mair not valar

[@danielmcdivitt1334]

Awesome video again !!!

[@BossGaming-vg6zh]

Great video! Also, you should make a video on Morgoth vs Sauron. If they fought, who would win? You could give multiple scenarios to make the battle interesting

[@vitalguillin1177]

With Morgoth at his "top", Sauron is no match for him....But, at the end of his reign, when he was way down weaker,......why not...

[@BossGaming-vg6zh]

@@vitalguillin1177 Morgoth would win in most scenarios. However, if he made the vid, he could fun ways to balance it out like “Morgoth with 100 troops vs Sauron with 1000 troops”

[@GreenHavoc]

Yeah loved this one! Very interesting to hear your analysis of Sauron over the ages.

[@aurora_w4]

Absolutely stunning depiction! Really love these tales presented here!

[@sageofcaledor8188]

Great video! Well made too!

[@buddycollins285]

If Sauron somehow appeared on TV for interviewing purposes, I personally would be surprised and excited and introducing myself to him and tell him I'm his biggest fan. And although Sauron would be confused, he would be surprised and happy to have me as a fan.

[@overlorddan7868]

It’s crazy to think that Middle Earth was basically at it’s weakest when they finally got rid of evil and truly defeated Sauron, it’s a great lesson honestly!

[@_semih_]

Tolkien said that Sauron was extremely weakened by Eru and his own corruption throughout the ages

[@_semih_]

Also he was defeated by pure luck and Eru's divine intervention lol

[@indio4-215]

Elightening as always. And it seems to me that Melkor not utilizing his intelligence as much as he should, let alone to it's utmost capacity, was more so due to not having to rely on it as much as Sauron had to since Melkor was obviously not only a Vala, but the greatest and mightiest of the Valar in his prime, whereas Sauron was just a Maia and didn't have the many gifts his master had. And of course, to me at least, Melkor's insanity and malice compromising his rationality over the ages that made him more reckless and impulsive and stupid and less calculating and rational, aside from instances like when he was released from imprisonment in Valinor. I'm uncertain if I'm a little off-topic on this, but if so, do excuse me.

[@stephensmith3111]

"Good is better than evil 'cause it's nicer." -- Al Capp

[@marionbaggins]

Sauron vs Morgoth: Epic Plan of The Dark Lord of History (feat Saruman) Sorry Just had too... It's interesting how Sauron was much more sly for working on his plans, and Morgoth is doing a, "Destroy Everything" type!!! Thanks Mellon, for The Video on Sauron's Slight Change of Plans, Until Theoden's ECH...Marion Baggins Out!!!

[@timonsolus]

You didn’t mention Sauron’s great fear and doubt after he discovered that the One Ring had been found, and was in the hands of his enemies. Sauron did not know what mighty one may suddenly arise, wielding the Ring, to cast him down and supplant him as the Dark Lord. Wielding the Ring, any of Galadriel, Saruman, Elrond or Gandalf would become powerful enough to destroy him. Even Aragorn may have been able to. Sure, the Ring would corrupt its wielder and turn him or her into the new Dark Lord, but that would come too late to save Sauron - and Sauron did not want to die or be reduced to a powerless, disembodied state. Sauron was so scared that he sent all Nine of the Nazgul after Bilbo and the Ring. And he also attacked Minas Tirith prematurely, before all of his plans were ready, as he was desperate to destroy the army of Gondor before a new Ring wielder appeared to command them.

[@_semih_]

In one of the Letters, Tolkien said only the ones who had the same *high nature* as Sauron would be successful against him. So only a great Maiar like Sauron had a chance otherwise the Ring would betray and fell off the current wielder to re-unite Sauron. Because The One Ring is Sauron himself!

[@istari0]

Great video! One question; is there anything on when exactly in those earliest ages Sauron changed to Morgoth's side.

[@The_CGA]

“There is no life in the void, only death” Sauron is really afraid of not having Arda for a house. That’s his main motivation after the downfall of Morgoth. When he says he wants to heal middle earth, it’s because he’s afraid Iluvatar will do what he did to Beleriand if he doesn’t fix the damage of Morgoth’s ring. Likewise he doesn’t go to face judgement in Aman-because he’s afraid of a death sentence

[@adrian_veidt]

Imagine if the roles are reversed between sauron and melkor. Being Sauron had the power of a Valar.

[@ellerj641]

With all of the elves screwing up and the crap going on between men, he probably would have completely annihilated them. Since Sauron is cunning, it would have been easy for him to use the sons of Feanor and the Silmarilli to turn everyone more against each other than they already were.

[@therealelderking5830]

Regular Sauron had to have Eru intervene to stop him. I don’t want to imagine what a Vala-powered Sauron could do.

[@_semih_]

@@therealelderking5830 you are right

[@lopirobinson1991]

Love your videos on the various Deities of Arda 👍👍

[@glennross85]

I always imagined if Morgoth came back to middle earth while Sauron was still around it would be similar to Galvatron and Starscream in the transformers animated movie

[@Halbared]

Same fate in that they both lost, but Melkor was thrust into the void to wait the last battle, Sauron's spirit was dispersed. I think Sauron's third time lucky bid was thwarted by Gandalf, without G, it would have been a win, and I agree there were subtle hidden nudges by the Valar.

[@grafspe807]

I dont think it was ever stated where the one ring was when Sauron was in Numenor . had he hid it some where in Mordor was it with him and some how came back with him in his spirit from ? This may have been a slight over look by Tolkien but im sure he never expected his storys to be picked apart and analyzed as they are today

[@davidandrews2972]

From what I remember he had it with him - in his letters Tolkien discussed him having the spiritual strength to carry it out of the ruin of Numenor as his disembodied form travelled back to Mordor.

[@Comicnut64]

Alright let’s fill in the lore

[@matepenava5888]

Arrogance is usually the downfall of many powerful people, when they become strong they become less careful

[@mackinnon1488]

Beautiful

[@silverwingdragon4161]

Just as Melkor was incapable of understanding good, Sauron could not understand why anyone would not desire power, and so he naturally assumed someone would want to overthrow him and take his place, using the One Ring. Imagine his surprise...

[@shanenolan8252]

Thanks great subject

[@sajowe7353]

nice video

[@randybarner6483]

Every small bit had to be played in order to take Sauron down.

[@pjmurray91]

Interesting how a video about Sauron is 11minutes and 34 seconds since 1134 is hell upside down.

[@Noleme]

One of the only Tolkien channels that I really respect as deep lore scholars. Thanks for the video! Is there a way to pose lore questions/ideas to you all for feedback?

[@federicaesu8580]

Eventually Sauron was destroyed by Gollum who accidentally fell with the Ring into the fire of Mt. Doom. Sauron was destroyed by the only thing he couldn’t even conceive. That is pity. Bilbo’s act of pity saved Middle Earth

[@stevedenis8292]

There is also the oath that Golam/ Sméagol swore up on the ring not to harm Frodo or try to take back the ring. That may have been a big part of his falling to his and the rings demise. I also like to think of Sméagol redeeming himself by going over the edge to be with the ring and free of it for ever.

[@tyrlant2189]

@@stevedenis8292 I forgot about the oath. I always thought it was stupid how he so conveniently happened to fall into the fires holding the ring right at the perfect moment. Maybe breaking the oath is the reason he fell, I like that idea.

[@istari0]

@@tyrlant2189 Breaking oaths has serious consequences in The Legendarium; just look at what happened to the men who broke their oath to aid Isildur in the War of the Last Alliance.

[@ellesartelcontar2387]

Great video as always yoysten friend and I always love to learn more about my favourite franchise from my favourite KZbinr and sauron is the smartest villain and way better than melkor what do you think I have just started reading the unfinished tales and i am enjoying it so far did you like it

[@MenoftheWest]

Thanks Jarrett, I appreciate that buddy! I loved the Unfinished Tales, it’s awesome how much depth there is even in the alternative and background stories. Have a great time with it!

[@ellesartelcontar2387]

@@MenoftheWest I will do thank you I am on page 23

[@skatemetrix]

Sauron by the end of the 3rd Age was a pathetic shadow of himself who relied increasingly on the brute force methods of Morgoth. It was the second age that Sauron was at is most deadliest as he could deceive even the Elves and his greatest achievement was so utterly corrupting the Numenorians as to trigger their downfall.

[@penelopegreene]

OMV (o my Vala) I'm on time!

[@MarkyCMark]

I hope the upcoming tv series focuses on Sauron’s story

[@oliveremmettknox7776]

So, did Sauron actually wanted to be forgiven by Eonwe and wanted to return to Aman or was he just faking it?

[@_semih_]

He actually repented. The books says "Sauron was in truth repented if out of fear"

[@berserkerofthrawn5707]

Wait Sauron was what the elf who I thought was a girl boy that was a close one it would awkward going to work tomorrow

[@CyberUK]

3:00 lol was that drawn by a 6 year old? Great video.

[@darklotus2002]

The thing I first noticed was in the Hobbit Sauron says the kingdom of Angmar will rise. I'm not sure if he changed his mind on this or not

[@planepantsgames1791]

Sauron calculated perfectly and would have succeeded if that tricksy Eru hadn't used their cheat code in Mount Doom. If not for that, the Nazgul would have come and quickly relieved gollum of the ring. Then things at the black gate would get AWKWARD.

[@annatar6453]

Three rings for the Elven kings…

[@_semih_]

Seven for the Dwarf Lords in their halls of stone

[@dllps]

Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die…

[@whatsit2ya234]

I'm still confused. Why did sauron want to kill that harry potter kid again?

[@oldmangranny5oldmangranny56]

What if Morgoth made his one ring of power back in the day. How much more powerful would he be?

[@yael9137]

The Rings were meant to dominate the elves originally, but that plan flopped. Giving rings to Dwarves and Men was already plan B.

[@razorsharpview9090]

I think the 9 lesser rings are not really meant for men, but for other elven lords. The 9 rings were given to 9 Lords of men out of sauron desperation when the elves found out that the 16 rings of power are nothing but a tool for sauron to be controlled.

[@oBuLLzEyEo1013]

What minus the huge speedbump on the road...

[@ThyArtIsMetal]

His plans had to change a “fair” amount

[@charliehovey4534]

hello yosten i have a question. did sam gamgee ever meet frodo again when he went west after his wife died. id like to see a video of a reunighting of sam and frodo in the west video.

[@MenoftheWest]

Yes sir, they did reunite in the Uttermost West. That would be a great video to make, thanks for the suggestion!

[@alexisruellastimoso6614]

Could you tell us about how worship work in tolkien

[@beskararmor7966]

Can't wait to see what Amazon does with this amazing verse! What?

[@LeglessDemon]

If you want an interesting take on Sauron look no further than in Beren and Luthien where He is known as Thu.

[@HenhousetheRed]

Imagine if Sauron's plan had succeeded. If the 7 had successfully turned the dwarf lords to wraiths. And had the 3 he planned to make snared an elder elf, and enslaved them to his will. The elder elves have incredible power in the unseen world, unlike men and dwarves. You can understand why Sauron poured so much of himself into the One. Even with only a third of the ring wraiths he intended to make, he got close to conquering Middle Earth. He would be unstoppable with all his servants, save unless Valinor moved against him, which they never would, fearing another War of Wrath.

[@crazyeyecarl]

Why didn't Sauron just close the entrance to Mt Doom? Seal it up entirely until the One Ring was found?

[@Americarnaud]

Sauron is such an interesting character. Too bad we didn’t get to see more of his side of the story. In the non canon Middle earth games, we see a bit more of his scheming and all but people see to really hate these games because of how much liberty they took. Maybe you could do a video on these games explaining what isn’t necessarily going against Tolkien’s work and what is actually just blasphemy. Like they introduce this whole thing that if someone steals a ring from a Nazgûl they eventually become corrupted and eventually turn into a Nazgûl themselves and takes the former’s place. Of course that’s not something that can be found in Tolkien’s work and it all depends on whether the Nazgûl are actually wearing their ring or not. But idk that doesn’t seem that bad to me. You take a ring from a Nazgûl so they’re kind of gone (assuming that keeping their ring is what keeps them ‘active’) and then slowly you get corrupted like the original 9 were and you eventually turn into one yourself. That way there are always constantly 9 Nazgûl. I even liked it. But yeah I guess they took it a bit too far when they made Isildur and Helm Nazgûl

[@nobodyspecial9097]

Saruon did not just lose his ability to take a fair form in the sinking of Numenor. He lost his material body. The reason he cant take a fair form anymore is because all that is left of Sauron is his essence or spirit. Only the Ring was left to anchor him to the material world. As a Maiar, Sauron's does not require a body to exist but he does need it to interact with the physical word in a tangible way. Being stuck in his raw unleashed state means he is incapable of hiding his true nature, that being a manifestation of Melkor's will to dominate.

[@jprocha1570]

Hail Théoden King!

[@M.W.Zastrow]

Hey what happened to Sauron when the ring was destroyed did he return to Valinor or just seas to be

[@MenoftheWest]

I think he was cast into the void beyond Arda with Melkor.

[@M.W.Zastrow]

@@MenoftheWest Thanks but maybe he was denied like Saruman when a wind from the west blow his soul away

[@origami83]

Didnt he become a shapeless spirit, never be able to grow in power again. Wondering in middle earth raging but powerless.

[@sweeperboy]

@@origami83 Yes, you are right. I don't think he was actually cast into the Void, but was made so powerless and insignificant that he could never rise again. How galling for a Dark Lord!

[@vicenterivera188]

He was the first to make a horcrux to conquer death.

[@cmsart]

So I'm binge-watching all the extended cut of the Rings movies but starting with the hobbits it's so hard to focus on the movies while I'm watching your Channel at this pace going to take years to finish movies

[@maylabrown4584]

What if Tom Bombadil joined The Fellowship?

[@thatguy2756]

There would have been a lot more skipping and dancing

[@stevedenis8292]

@@thatguy2756 And singing

[@istari0]

He probably have lost interest and wandered off before they even got to the pass of Caradhras.

[@Raz.C]

re - 10:15 "It was the will of many more beings of good, that heroes would rise and defeat the mighty Sauron." I think it would be more accurate to say that it was the hope of these beings, not the will of these beings. Suggesting that it was the will of these beings implies that they were directing the minds or wills of these heroes. Tolkien was quite insistent that domination of others was something entirely evil and something that corrupted those who employed such domination. Therefore, I think it's a mistake to assert that the Valar did much more than encourage said heroes.

[@Jayjay-qe6um]

Would Sauron return in Dagor Dagorath?

[@_semih_]

Dagor Dagorath is not canon. The idea of the Last Battle has been cancelled by Tolkien himself

[@chevin0]

I know you know and most listeners as well, but I always try to point out to people that the lesser rings were not made for Men and Dwarves. They were made for Elves by Elves and held by Elves for a couple hundred years, onlu redistributed when Sauron took them.

[@Doubbiguy]

Wasn't the point of making the rings that Sauron wanted to corrupt elves, as he believed they held the key to power in Middle-Earth?

[@manu85345]

Perhaps if they stood with a plan they would have won 🤣, you know consistency

[@paulwagner688]

Melkor and Sauron should have paid more attention to the Music and to Iluvatar: “And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined… And thou, Melkor, wilt discover all the secret thoughts of thy mind, and wilt perceive that they are but a part of the whole and tributary to its glory." Eru Hath Spoken. Evil will never win, but will ultimately redound to Iluvatar's greater Glory.

[@erikavalentina4940]

Morgoth and Sauron were the best villain of any fantasy story I have read so far. While Morgoth was pure evil, Sauron was more tactical and cunning. The way he destroyed Numenor from inside and deceived Celebrimbor elves were so smart, I don’t think Morgoth was willing to do that (for the point of what you have mentioned, the arrogance).

[@crazykids2004]

Well that is the price to pay for arrogance get casted away like his Master

[@bagthebird7610]

anyone know the artist at 6:44?

[@rozed]

Does anyone think it possible that some of the surviving balrogs repented after morgoths final defeat and returned to valinor?

[@ryangellatly8839]

So are the eleven rings inherently evil or not? If they aren't why did the elves cast them off at first? Just out of fear from sensing Sauron? Or could they only use them safely when Sauron didn't have the one?

[@danepatterson8107]

I still do not really understand how the powers of Tolkien's world fades. Why are these beings weaker now than before? I am re-reading LOTR again and it just occurred to me that in 70 years, Sauron went from being the Necromancer defeated at Dol Goldur to being the Dark Lord with an irresistible force of (now-Evil) Saruman, orcs, Easterlings, Harad, Umbar, Gundabad, and Angmar. I guess it's Sauron as the Necromancer in Dol Goldur that seems out of place. And Saruman's switch from leader of the white council to Sauron's lieutenant

[@istari0]

It took a long time for Sauron to recover from his "death" at the hands of Elendil and Gil-Galad at the end of the War of the Last Alliance. So, once he was able to take form again, he was still effectively healing and recovering his strength. Also, his defeat by the White Council was not that much of a loss; he simply withdrew and returned to Mordor, ruling openly from there instead of through the Ringwraiths. When Galadriel formed the 3rd Age White Council, she wanted Gandalf to be its head. He declined and the role went to Saruman, who never forgot that Gandalf had been the first choice. He remained head of the White Council until his betray of the Free Peoples became known, which really wasn't until the Council of Elrond. Saruman was never so much Sauron's lieutenant as he fell under Sauron's sway via using the Palantir at Orthanc and by then he was already a traitor to the Free Peoples and later betrayed Sauron as well, not that it did Saruman any good.