What if Sauron Reclaimed the One Ring? Theory

A question of great fear… What if Sauron Reclaimed the One Ring? Here are my thoughts on the fall of Middle-earth to the Shadow. Thank you all so much for watching, let me know your thoughts in the comments below! As always, a great thanks to the online artists whose visual works made this video possible! If you are one of the artists, please let me know and I will post your name and a link to your work in this description!
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[@jamieedwards6721]

This was a very interesting theory, my biggest take away from it is the realisation of how much I love these characters, the thought of them being defeated and destroyed is just awful.

[@Yesica1993]

I felt the same!

[@Nofarewell]

The same, especially Aragon's defeat seemed to be the most unbearable.

[@seansullivan7928]

just like real life God does absolutely nothing to help ease the boredom and pain of human existence. like Illuvatar does in Middle Earth just sits back and allows people to forcefully endure cold blooded evil.

[@Nofarewell]

@@Enerdhil I agree with this quite much. But the theory stands in that he wouldn't abandon anyone just to save his own life. To be responsible for all mankind's future is of course another perspective which he as well took before this battle begun.

[@Spyro757]

@@seansullivan7928 what the hell does have to do with the dame video

[@ivanlarav]

Man, imaging the reaction of the people of Gondor seeing Aragorn being used as a Banner is so depressing...

[@MenoftheWest]

Absolutely. It would be devastating.

[@jefffinkbonner9551]

Aragone.

[@eliaso3287]

@@jefffinkbonner9551 Aragonedor

[@MichaelAChristian1]

@@MenoftheWest I'd be like who is that?

[@Captnjack420]

​@@MichaelAChristian1looooool 😂

[@johnquach8821]

Very nice theory! Sauron: Wins Eru: Presses Dagor Dagorath Button. Maybe "What if Gandalf found out Bilbo had the One Ring sooner or immediately?"

[@omarflores9011]

@JohnQuach are you sure the dagor dagorath button is even a thing?

[@melkhiordarkfell4354]

The Gandalf finding about the ring sooner is covered in the If Sauruman stayed good video.

[@Stuffman1861]

I'm just imagining Eru just has a big red button next to his throne with the words "Emergency Nuke" printed on it.

[@vdimasteremeritus]

“If he regains it, your valor is vain, his victory will be swift and complete: so complete that none can see the end of it while this world lasts” - Gandalf. He pretty much summed it up.

[@thorr18BEM]

8:10 Saruman would not pass up this opportunity to gloat over how foolish Gandalf was!

[@MenoftheWest]

Major facts right here

[@istari0]

I'm envisioning the scene at the end of Yoystan's video where Gandalf discovers what deep, dank dungeon Sauron left Saruman in.

[@henryweiland7761]

“Gandalf the…. FOOL! Hah, got’im!”

[@morgothfromangband6082]

And Gandalf could easily answer:"Guess what Sauron will do with you when he catches you here!"

[@atlasweylandeden1091]

In the event of Sauron’s victory, I had an idea for something he might do. This may well cross the line from speculation to “fan fiction”, but I imagine Sauron devising a new punishment for the hobbits who bore the One Ring. Recognising how had previously overlooked the halflings, he fashions four new Rings of Power - “Four for Halflings under the earth”, or something similar. A ring each for Frodo, Gollum, Sam and Bilbo, who all bore the One Ring. The rings would make them his slaves and he would force them to watch the destruction of their world. This might be a wild concept, but I like the idea of there being “hobbit rings”, and I feel like Sauron would wish to control all races, especially the halflings who came close to destroying him.

[@matheusburin]

Hobbit wraiths... that would be cool

[@Alexs.2599]

It's hard to imagine contemplating Frodo and Sam being captured and tortured. And all of our other beloved fellowship characters dying in hopeless defeat. The Western peoples and lands destroyed or under the cruel thumb of Sauron and his minions. This horrible scenario is almost too much to bare.

[@thorr18BEM]

Sauron would have sent his navy and maybe even Air Force to the Grey Havens to destroy the port and as many elven ships as he could before most could evacuate. He would personally arrive much later with his army and drive nearly the entire eleven population into the sea, breaking them against the rocks. Were the West to later rise up and reclaim Middle Earth, they would have to hope against hope that many of the people were merely enslaved, rather than butchered.

[@timonsolus]

@@thorr18BEM : Sauron's navy, the Corsairs of Umbar, had already been destroyed on the River Anduin near Gondor. As for the air, Sauron had the winged fell beasts that the Nazgul rode, but nothing else. Smaug was the last of the winged dragons, and he had died years before.

[@thorr18BEM]

@@timonsolus perhaps you are correct that Aragon captured the entire black fleet but the Corsairs assaulted Gondor's southern coastal fiefdoms to keep them from being able to send aid to Minas Tirith, so I imagine a portion of his navy remained separate from that loss and there may have been more from Southern Hadrim he was still mustering since he was goaded into striking earlier than planned.

[@trueneese8080]

I kind of feel like we are living that story out right now, but who knows maybe Sam and Frodo are on their way 🤞

[@Alexs.2599]

@@trueneese8080 I hear that. This world seems to be enveloping into darkness. We sure do need a Frodo and Sam the Brave more than ever

[@eugenemonti5755]

Morgoth just chilling in the void Sauron suddenly appears : Hello Master Morgoth: Sauron how did you get here? Sauron: Well master it’s a long story Morgoth: well we got time and haven’t had any one to talk to Sauron: Fair point. It all began…

[@omarflores9011]

Sauron: I won, shouldn't you be proud of me? Morgoth: I'm proud of you son, you did good also, I'm sure Morgoth would still call him Mairon, seeing as how Sauron still calls him Melkor

[@danielhamilton351]

The universe's two divine losers for eternity.

[@seansullivan7928]

Sauron: "It all began in a hole in the ground

[@Geshiko-GuP]

@@omarflores9011 wholesome

[@ducatirottie]

🤣🤣🤣

[@archades115]

In an alternate universe that is a modded version of Total War: Medieval 2, events went a little differently. As a possessed Elrond who rebuilt Eregion, built new Elven cities in lands surrounding Mithlond, Farlond, Harlond, and Imladris... He merely quirked an eyebrow and mustered the armies of Elves no longer permitted to sail into the West (and incentivized to reproduce) and met the risen Sauron at the eastern gates of Khazad-Dum (graciously cleansed and returned to the Dwarves). There, the glittering gold and sapphire blue of the Eldar met the horrid black and whispering shadows of Mordor. And in a great battle of unimaginable slaughter, only a handful of Elves survived to see Elrond himself strike down Sauron for the final time. And everyone lived happily ever after.

[@therealelderking5830]

Elrond just starts channeling his inner Feanorian and goes full-on kinslayer on Sauron

[@TheNotoriousCheeto]

See, this is my problem with Sauron. How could he not expect the Valar to intervene if he one; they did against Morgoth, and they also sent the wizards, so they clearly wanted him stopped. What, did he think "I'll win, and the Valar will just be like 'oh well.'" His best bet would have been to get the ring, but stay in Mordor. At least at first. It isn't like he doesn't have time; he is immortal. Then expand gradually, perhaps even legally. Like, what I'd he demanded a princess of Gondor or Rohan as tribute as a wife, and used that to take the crowns of these kingdoms legally? We know Maiar can have children from Mellion. He could have pulled a Queen Victoria and had the rulers of each kingdom be his relatives, taking up a king of High King role. Alternatively, if he lacked the patience for that, save the other kingdoms for later and immediately strike the Grey Havens. Blockade them in so no ships could leave, kill Cirdan, and make sure no one gets to the West to report to the Valar.

[@istari0]

Well, he spent approximately 6000 years trying to conquer Middle-Earth, often through the use of military force, so he clearly thought he could make it work. He may well have decided that with the Valar apparently not paying much attention to Middle-Earth after the 1st Age and then later only sending the 5 Istari that the Valar would not launch another full-scale invasion.

[@joaquineastwood9484]

How high are you?

[@WunderWaffleman]

There is no indication the valar would intervene a second time. Even when Ar Pharazoan and his host marched on Aman itself they asked Eru himself to intervene . I don't buy that they would initiate a War of Wrath 2 Electric Boogaloo, after the the first one they were extremely hands off and there's no indication this would be otherwise. Characters like Galadriel even say that if Sauron wins hell rule until the end of days.

[@TheNotoriousCheeto]

@@WunderWaffleman They only asked Eru to intervene because they were not permitted by Eru to fight the Children of Illuvitar directly. And the fact that the Valar sent the wizards in the first place shows they were willing to intervene. They were probably, like you said, just trying to avoid another War of Wrath.

[@WunderWaffleman]

@@TheNotoriousCheeto yea but very hands off. Idk maybe I'm just hoping that they wouldn't do another direct intervention. Kinda makes the stakes of LOTR feel lessened if even in the worst case the Free Peoples can just use a get out of jail free card again.

[@FairbrookWingates]

Something about the line "and Arwen had already been sent there [The Grey Havens] even as all mourned" made me weep. Maybe the way that single act, her preparing to leave Middle Earth, sums up the tragedy that has fallen. The loss of both love and hope of all peoples mirrored in her own grief.

[@paulwagner688]

This theory would change the prophecy of the Dagor Dagorath, I believe, as follows: In the battle, Turin would slay Melkor, but it would be a redeemed Tar-Calion who would slay Sauron. For the Lost would come forth from the caves in which they were buried and fight for Iluvatar, thus redeeming the whole of Mankind from the Darkness Melkor put upon them in their very beginnings.

[@paulwagner688]

And notice how I said Tar-Calion instead of Ar-Pharazon. Redemption. From "The Golden" to the "Son of Light".

[@timonsolus]

That's a great theory. But there would be a risk that Tar-Calion would make Isildur's mistake, and pick up the Ring after defeating Sauron...

[@paulwagner688]

@@timonsolus Remember that according to this theory the Ring had already been destroyed by Aule.

[@johnquach8821]

@@paulwagner688 I thought Tar-Calion was the protagonist of Shadow of War (Talion) for some reason. Tbf that also makes sense considering what Sauron did to Talion, but this is also cool.

[@timonsolus]

@@paulwagner688 : If the Ring has already been destroyed, then Sauron would be destroyed with it, and there would be no Sauron for Tar-Calion to defeat.

[@wanderhillen2435]

Tulkas vs Sauron is truly a beatdown for the ages. You almost start feeling bad for the poor Dark Lord, but then you remember how much Tulkas loves fighting and you realize that it's probably best this way.

[@SnakeRoadComicsOfficial3677]

What if Gandalf manage to locate and bring Smeagol to the Shire before Mordor could acquire him. That could make an interesting vid.

[@irontemplar6222]

What if Sauron either after the fall of Numanor, or after the war if the last alliance. Turned his works and mind towards good things, and strove for redemption, and setting things right.

[@Longshanks1690]

I think relying on the inhabitants of Valinor to swoop in to save the day is attributing a level of care to them that they clearly didn’t have, if not being an outright Deus Ex Machina to be their salvation conveniently. If they were willing to trust in the will of Frodo and Sam to be able to stop Sauron effectively on their own when they could have simply swept his armies away at their pleasure, I don’t see why they would suddenly have stepped up at this point when he was no more a threat to them as he had been before he reclaimed the Ring and was only a threat to the mortal Free Peoples, who they had all but abandoned. I just don’t see them caring then when they never had before. I think they would have left Middle Earth to it’s fate, and Sauron would have been enthroned as it’s Dark Lord snuffing out every last pocket of resistance to his rule as a God-King that he was able to find. Perhaps if Sauron grew in arrogance and might, he could persuade himself to believe he could lead a successful conquest of Valinor too but this would lead to a miserable defeat, at which point the Valar would sweep all memory of his rule away from Arda. But if Sauron knew his limits, then Middle Earth would have been his own dominion, with generations born and dying in the service of their all powerful Lord of Darkness.

[@jakobrenner2230]

Yeah I fully agree with this. The Valar surely would be hesitant to bring such destruction to Middle-earth again. Personally I don’t think Sauron would have even attempted to invade Aman because he wouldn’t be able to even if he wanted to: when Eru sank Númenor he also took the Realm of Valinor outside the Cricles of the World, so Sauron wouldn’t be able to move his forces there unless he had permission, which he wouldn’t have for obvious reasons.

[@jakobrenner2230]

As for Sauron’s rulership over Middle-earth, he would basically kill all the remaining Elves, maybe leave the Dwarves be if they didn’t oppose his rule and he would utterly enslave Men to turn them into cogs for his grand machinery. It would surely be a nightmarish industrial theocratic dystopia but it wouldn’t come close to the sheer depravity and dread of Morgoth’s reign, another reason why I think the Valar wouldn’t attack. PS: In the end though, Sauron is doomed to fail because in Dagor Dagorath his master will be utterly defeated and a new, greater Music shall be made for the glory of Eru.

[@Longshanks1690]

The question I’ve always wondered about in a scenario where Sauron emerges victorious over the Free Peoples is what he would have done about the Balrog under Moria. Would he have attempted to negotiate with it and come to an arrangement as they were beings of mutual strength as servants of Morgoth or would he have attempted to bring the creature to hell and acknowledge him as Lord instead? Or would Sauron have simply left the creature where it was, disturbing no one awaiting a master that would likely never return rather than risk a confrontation with the Balrog which would humiliate him before all his disciples and armies and show he wasn’t an all powerful God-King after all?

[@Longshanks1690]

* creature to heel (Being a fire demon, it was arguably already in hell 🤣)

[@istari0]

Gandalf the Grey defeated Durin's Bane on his own. I don't think the balrog could have defeated Sauron has the former survived but I also think it more likely Sauron would have found a different way to bring the balrog into his service. Sauron was, after all, Morgoth's second in command.

[@Drifter2025]

So middle earth became the lands in-between, this changes my view on elden ring 😂

[@muratali9632]

Your videos are very beautiful. Your voice is clear and distinct, so that even I, who don't get to consume English-language media very often, can understand everything perfectly. Thanks for the great work :)

[@glennross85]

Never forget "If Sauron is hot, we can fix him"

[@happywheeler4268]

Morgoths taint can be felt even in our world. Allegory may have frowned upon, but it is in both worlds nonetheless

[@Itsgranger]

Yes this is what I think about lately

[@DavidWesley]

I’m glad you didn’t end it in darkness!

[@قطريوأفتخر-ع7ك]

You describe the the “What If” scenario so flawlessly… Fully agree with you… So it ended with “The War of Wrath II”… Regards🇶🇦

[@MrHoll87]

I really like this alternate ending you've crafted. It' so accurate and consistent within the lore. For example, at first, I thought you were writing your story as Gandalf and the elves abandoning Middle-Earth to it's fate, fleeing like cowards, not in a grudgeful way. But instead you turned it around brilliantly. Of course Gandalf and Elrond weren't giving up, Gandalf ALWAYS seems to leave at the worst possible times but always cause he has a grand plan that proves to save the day in the end. Just brilliantly done. Also, I would really love to see a remaster of Lord of the Rings Conquest. That game wasn't very good, but we got to play as characters and explore locations in that game that is still unmatched. The locations and characters in that game alone make it worth any LOTR fan's time.

[@nickengland300]

Tolkien would be proud of this theory 👏

[@sauron3488]

I would use my dominion on Middle-earth to spread my will to all of Arda and attempt to fetch Morgoth from the void.

[@omarflores9011]

@Sauron How would you do that 🤔

[@michaelflores9384]

@@omarflores9011 yeah, how would he do it?

[@sydmohammadali6421]

press X to doubt, yall would just rule Arda yourself you greedy bastard

[@barbarossa1780]

Why would you want you old boss back?

[@mikkelhartmann9299]

This was truly a beautiful tale, you did this one really good

[@lutzcasper5285]

Great video and my deepest respect for all of the lore woven into it. One thing that has quarrel my mind even when I read LOTR for the 1st time (over 30 it is now): Sauron already had the one ring and wasn‘t that overpowered back then when Isildur cut it off his finger…

[@randybarner6483]

If Sauron were to get The One Ring back,,,,I wonder if we could forge enough ideas for a small sized novel? Morgoth had the 3 Simils but still got defeated. Maybe Sauron's victory could still be short lived in that concept.

[@Melkor8249]

Probably but who would write it?

[@Melkor8249]

I doubt Peter wants to go back to LOTR

[@paulbrickler]

Well, this is dark. Happy Independence Day weekend!

[@charleslarrivee2908]

Nerd of the Rings did a video on this very topic a few weeks ago. I literally couldn’t finish it, the idea of Sauron actually winning being so horrible.

[@noahchavez741]

I love your "what if?" theories! This has to be one of my favourites; for it just shows that darkness is just a shadow. It comes and it is very present, but even darkness must pass. Love how this is just a theory, but it is truly respectful to the lore of Tolkien's work! Well done!

[@eddardstark6554]

Imagine if this were the opening of the Return of the King (followed by Sméagol and Deagol fishing). Then it ends normally, but to have seen this hypothetical ending on screen would have been devastatingly emotional to see. We’ll done. This video is incredible.

[@orangexlightning]

"The War for Sake of Middle Earth" I LIKE that!

[@jesuscoyt-munoz2753]

@OrangeLightning me too it’s a fitting title.

[@zentime8047]

Just recently discovered this channel. It’s great, thank you. I don’t know if you have thought about what would happen if Gollum somehow kept the ring. It’s interesting to me to think about because in a lot of ways, he was the purest with the ring. He just wanted to be alone with the ring. He had it for a long time and didn’t try to conquer anything with it. In that way he seemed to resist its will

[@damihianimas6983]

I love this theory, for it truly shows that no matter what, evil will never triumph due to its own folly. As Theoden King himself says: "Strange powers have our enemies, and strange weaknesses! ' said Théoden. 'But it has long been said: oft evil will shall evil mar. '

[@zaidsayeed326]

Great, and I agree, except for one detail. Middle Earth needed the Valar during the 2nd and 3rd ages. Why didn't they help earlier? During the 2nd age, there was in enough in elves and men to do the job. In the 3rd age, there clearly was not. Why would a simple plea, from Elrond or his father before him, make a difference? Was it simply the Neglect of the Valar? Was Feanor correct? It's a better story if the Valar are made more than effective absentee parents. So I explain the reason they stayed, and tried to influence from afar rather than come themselves, is fact that they were not omnipotent or omniscient BUT only knew they *could* cause greater destruction than either Morgoth or Sauron, by simply coming. By effective deities coming to the lands of Men. So the Valar had to answer the question, would the extent of their pyrrhic victory be better than Morgoth ruling? How about Sauron? They answered the first with a positive, and Beleriand, a part of creation and home to many people, animals, trees, and history, was completely destroyed. I'd like to think that the Valar chose not to come to fight Sauron earlier in the 3rd Age, until Elrond's hypothetical plea, because only then did they know, for sure, that the damage their coming would wreak would be better than the rule of Sauron. So for this theory to be perfect, there needs to be a cost to the Valar coming, and a dreadful one at that. At the end of the 1st age, it was Beleriand. Fighting against Morgoth would surely have been worse, and so the damage worse, but the risk of great loss should be shown by an equally significant, though smaller loss. So what I would suggest, to make this theory perfect would be that, after the coming of the Valar to defeat Sauron, the land of Gondor and Mordor, mountain to mountain, and everything and one in that area, would be utterly lost, sunk beneath the waves as Beleriand before it. This was the cost the Valar refused to inflict, for so long, until they had no choice. This raises them from absentee parents to flawed deities with a difficult moral choice to make. Please let me know if I've missed something in the continuity. I'm no means an expert in this stuff, I just enjoyed the books.

[@istari0]

Sauron and his forces never had close to the power that Morgoth and his forces did in the War of Wrath which is what led to the sinking of Beleriand. So, I don't think expecting a similar level of destruction from the War to Save Middle-Earth makes sense although I imagine the war was devastating and the aftermath perhaps not that much better. I think the Valar, knowing that the dominion of men was coming, wanted as much as possible for the Free Peoples, including those elves yet to leave for Valinor, to win control of that land themselves even though they were up against a very powerful maia in Sauron. Even so, I think it's fair to say that Eönwë really screwed up by not taking Sauron back to Valinor in chains alongside Morgoth at the end of the 1st Age.

[@therealelderking5830]

I personally think that the Valar were hindered by their power being too great. Imagine fighting a war with only nuclear weapons. You would win, but at what cost? The Valar would only intervene, I believe, if Sauron actually threatens Aman itself. The Valar aren’t perfect; I think they would prefer Middle-earth under Sauron rather than Middle-Earth under the sea.

[@istari0]

@@therealelderking5830 An assault on Mordor would have certainly been destructive but I don't think it would have been 'sinking of Beleriand' destructive. The War of Wrath required a much greater use of force in my opinion than a war on Sauron would have. Even if it turned out that the Valar didn't have the ability to fight to tone down the destructive level of their fighting abilities, there are the Maiar plus a large number of elves. Obviously, that's not the choice the Valar made but if Sauron had prevailed over the Free Peoples, I think the Valar come for him eventually. Furthermore, Middle-Earth is a big continent; even Beleriand was only one relatively small part of it.

[@nightnomad635]

Such a great video. Genuinely had the feels with your narration of this theory.

[@affinityforanime]

If Sauron reclaimed the One Ring, then "What if Gandalf had used his full power to stop Sauron"?

[@_semih_]

According to Tolkien, Even Sauron's weakest was far more powerful than Gandalf's most powerful true Olorin form(Sauron was even more weaker than he was in The Hobbit book). Olorin said that he is too weak than Sauron and frightened of him in the Unfinished Tales book

[@sushanalone]

We would have A NEW OLD MAN, BOTH BEAUTIFUL AND TERRIBLE....

[@marionbaggins]

Man, this was another tragic dark Middle Earth Theory... *(I am not surprised seeing the title it's going to be depressing)* But this one took twists and turns, I didn't expect: Everyone's Boy Tom turning up!!! Thanks so much for your Theory Mellon, the theories are really interesting, and they had to be dark because it's a Theory, A Middle Earth Theory, Until Angmar Geography... (But I will be on a Vacation so I tell watch it, in 8 days, not my 7 normally) Marion Baggins Out!!! (Going try and start and finish an Assignment in 2 weeks!!!)

[@marionbaggins]

@@Enerdhil Hmm...Interesting point.

[@marionbaggins]

@@Enerdhil That's Ok!!!

[@Lord-Emperor-Vader]

Here is an idea what if the Valar did not come to stop Morgoth.

[@jefffinkbonner9551]

“There once was a hole in the ground, and in that hole lived a hobbit. Until he and everyone else around him died horrible, cruel deaths, and the hole remained but a deep pool of blood and despair. The end.”

[@sydmohammadali6421]

@@jefffinkbonner9551 fuckin yes

[@Pengalen]

One feels badly for Aulë, what with his followers getting corrupted all the time.

[@YolkyburritoOG]

I can't see the Valar letting things get absolutely destroyed, I mean... they sent 5 of their own to assist middle earth to prevent things coming to destruction regarding sauron, If it looked like they'd all fallen then I just imagine they make a phase 2 to that, probably involving Tulkas to throw Sauron around and wipe booty sweat on his face.

[@thorr18BEM]

The Istari were numbered five.

[@YolkyburritoOG]

@@thorr18BEM you're correct, edited. 😘

[@Kira-zy2ro]

that would have been an awesome ending. Sauron taking the ring, striding arrogantly to the morannon... only to hear this loud laughter...... and see the gate smashed by bare fists...... and then getting one punch manned....

[@ratatataraxia]

I can, it’s called politics.

[@chrisp.9380]

Tulkas' booty sweat, what a concept...

[@melkhiordarkfell4354]

What if Faenor had just said "fine, keep those Silmarils, I don't them anyway" and stayed in Valinor.

[@mateuszslawinski1990]

He also lost a father during heist. While I can imagine him forsake the jewels, he'd still be enraged and vengeful (although maybe he'd not be delivered such grim fate in the end).

[@istari0]

@@mateuszslawinski1990 By that point, my view is that Fëanor cared more for the loss of the Silmarils than the death of his father.

[@shanenolan8252]

Thanks guys . Happy fourth of July weekend to your American subscribers.

[@shanenolan8252]

@@Enerdhil yes it seems like we have been cursed with ( interesting) times . The reckless way people are talking is a problem, or hypocrisy, the supreme court can do no wrong when its on your side but its git to go when it doesn't. Like the electoral college or the constitution. President biben has no business criticising his own supreme court let alone a foreign one . ( i have a headache listening to a panel of fpur women talking about it . The one with the most to say wasn't American and the other, didn't seem to understand civics or anything historic , of you can believe it she accused an American governor of being a fascist '., and when i told her her definition was incorrect. ( i believe she was trying to describe a tyrant) ( she was incorrect as it happens about that as well ) she told me i was wrong, even after i gave her the literal dictionary definition and political definition. ( national socialism and central planned economics ect ) its bizarre im not American and i seem to understand more about your system than the average American. ( or respect it more perhaps) seriously i have hat a ton of arguments about this roevs wade thing . ( mostly terrible arguments pr bad faith extreme arguments) or ridiculous hypocritical arguments. Democracy is great , but then democracy cant be trusted. Dont tell me what to do in private but also tell people how to raise there children. ( and they dont seem to notice) or something is private yet you want the public to pay for it . Im really frustrated with stuip people telling me im stupid . Same people who cant tell the difference between a conservative or a fascist. Or a liberal and a progressive. ( let alone the debate itself) . Clown world

[@shanenolan8252]

@@Enerdhil lol i know. Needed to vent . ( although i often write long comments. When ot comes to real world subjects. Although i have had one or two long Tolkien debates or comments with .Amazon nonsense.

[@shanenolan8252]

@@Enerdhil ha ha . Well yes i try to be polite and leave a comment for the algorithm. Some of them kind do i talk quite a bit to some , and disagree quite a lot with others. ( one send me videos of her kids ) ( not a Tolkien creator)

[@PaintsOnA4Up]

Great video and really interesting to think about. Well done! 👏

[@corgi42069]

Good afternoon yoystan! Have a good day buddy. We gotta link up soon I would love to chat with you about some things!

[@benedictwallis5820]

This is my favourite version of 'if Sauron took the ring'. This would be an amazing book in it's self! Not how I thought Sauron would act if he took over as I believe he wished to rule not destroy but I've never thought about it from this angle! Amazing 😍

[@uriahakabrowndog3406]

A region spotlight on Angmar? That sounds exciting. Also, if this outcome happened, the books would be: The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers The Lord of the Rings: The Hypothetical Return of the King The Lord of the Rings: The Sending of the Valar The Lord of the Rings: Sauron gets his butt kicked

[@bryany4828]

lmao at "Sauron gets his butt kicked"

[@sageofcaledor8188]

What a wonderful video. Thank you!

[@magecraft2]

One interesting thought I had about this premise was everything happened the same until Sauron had conquered the whole of Middle Earth! However the pleas for aid fall on deaf ears and no help is sent. Then Sauron languishing in his total victory falls under the same hubris he spoke to the Numenoreans and tries to attack the west, after all how powerful can they still be if they fear to face him! His forces are destroyed and then the events continue as if the pleas had been heeded as in your timeline.

[@Lord-Emperor-Vader]

I think this will be great but I am leaving for the movies so I will be watching this later.

[@happywheeler4268]

Good theory, but when the Wk was destroyed by eowyn , he would have stayed dead. Fate played an important role in Tolkiens work. Khamul would have been second in command.

[@danielhamilton351]

I don't believe that is correct. The power of Sauron to use his own divine power and dark magic to summon the Nazgul and other evil spirits is considerable. Fate or not. Enhanced especially with the Ring of Power. I always surmised that the true Rings of Power for each Nazgul isn't necessarily their Rings of Power themselves, but their spiritual bond and attachment to Sauron by accepting gifts and false promises of power from him. Truly they couldn't be permanently dispatched until Sauron was as well.

[@hurinthalion5984]

@@danielhamilton351 I think his death by eowyn was more permanent than that. Not only did he lose physical power but he also passed into the doom of men.

[@happywheeler4268]

@@hurinthalion5984 this is true.

[@danielhamilton351]

@@hurinthalion5984 but he's not just an ordinary man. He's a wraith. More specifically then that, he's a Nazgul. Bound to the power of Sauron and his Ring. As long as Sauron is still in the physical world, the power to summon the Witch King on command into the physical plain of existence has not ended.

[@danielhamilton351]

@@hurinthalion5984 The entire point of necromancy is summoning and controlling the spirits of the dead. Sauron is the source of that control. If he is still in the world, then the Witch King can rise again.

[@Alexs.2599]

Yes if Sauron had claimed the ring than horrifically Middle Earth would suffer under a second darkness. And I believe once again at some point the Valar would have to intervene to free western Middle Earth of Sauron's tyranny. One of the most fascinating but darkest what ifs? in Tolkien's Legendarium. Thank you Yoystan for another excellent video.

[@Luirru55]

Third darkness.

[@Alexs.2599]

@@Luirru55 I'm referring to when Morgoth had near mastery of Beleriand at the end of the first age and the Valar had to intervene. Yes technically the first darkness occured in the era of the Valian years when Middle Earth was in darkness with only distant stars in the sky. This was before the Elves were awakened. But I mean when Morgoth destroyed most of the Elven kingdoms in the western regions of Beleriand and had mastery of western Middle Earth through conquest.

[@Dr_Cole]

I found myself very downtrodden as evil took over middle earth during your telling. I was worried it would end thusly. Bringing back hope and possibility was very much in the flavor of Tolkien so well done! Great story in the what if realm!

[@chrismeloy5560]

This was a good topic to discuss and the artwork you do for the videos are simply amazing the pic of Frodo holding Sting which is flowing and glowing like a torch Is my favorite

[@antonioortiz4544]

Very interesting and well-written.

[@johnst.baptiste3664]

Great speculation, as always. Have a great holiday weekend; whichever side of the border you are on.

[@Shipwreck8l8]

The first king of the hobbits, bro you gave me a heart attack I was laughing so hard I could not take it anymore that was hilarious.

[@informationyes]

Sauron "Oh yes I have finally conqured Minddle earth" 2 seconds later "Why do I here boss music?"

[@jacobshore5115]

I hope you’re right about having hope of victory and peace in the end…

[@johnotron604]

Great theory and does take the stakes out the fate of Arda but reminds us that the power and reign of the discord is a fleeting moment at best. Eventually Eru and/or the Ainur on his behalf would have intervened. Aule showing up to confront Sauron is an interesting idea with Eonwe dueling Sauron greater still.

[@kaidorade1317]

Then peace Justice and order will be restored to Middle Earth at long last!

[@Relics_of_Arda]

Great video!

[@Andy_466]

For those commenting that it is unrealistic for Sauron to not anticipate a reprisal from the Valar, consider that the War of Wrath sunk all of Beleriand, a large portion of Middle Earth under the seas. Indeed, all conflict involving the Powers of Arda was catastrophic to it, hence the Valar were extremely reluctant to once again wage open war in Arda and subject it to such destruction.

[@scottgrunow5201]

Kind of repeats the battles of the First Age

[@Andy_466]

What a joy to view a fan theory video that felt as the actual lore in the telling!

[@dokkrokket8692]

Could you do one on the doors of night please

[@matthewanderson9754]

Yaaassss! Make more "what if" videos! There's so much to think of and it would be awesome to hear your opinion !!!

[@rafaelgustavo7786]

I wouldn't say it's a plot hole, but I think Tolkien should have put a little more focus on the powers of the One Ring and the difference it would make to Sauron. Like, there could be a passage saying that AFTER creating the One, Sauron got enough power to (telepathically) dominate the Orcs, trolls and scattered monsters (a mix of the spells: Sympathy and dominant monster in DND 5e). To show that with the One Ring, the servants would go into a frenzy of rage and destruction, the Nazgûl would become more powerful (Gandalf even speaks of this in the Fellowship of the Ring), and, above all, the enemies of Mordor would be driven back through the "breaking of their will to fight". This allayed many doubts about the One Ring's abilities to manipulate the Morgoth Ingredient and the consequences of that. What had to happen is that Galadriel and Elrond could be mentally dominated. Rivendell and Lothlorien would be "unprotected" and the free people would not have the ability to defeat Sauron militarily. Sauron would be a God-emperor of Middle-earth (like a Leto II Atreides?).

[@istari0]

I'm dubious about that. Sauron could already dominate orcs and other evil creatures before creating the One Ring. I think if Tolkien had wanted the One Ring to be capable of such things, he would have written that. The original intent of the Rings of Power was for Sauron to be able to control the elves by using the One Ring to dominate the minds of the wearers of the original 16.

[@rafaelgustavo7786]

@@istari0 But in the Unfinished Tales version, one of Isildur's sons (perhaps Elendur) asks his father if he couldn't use the power of the One Ring to make the Orcs, that were attacking in the Battle of the Gladden Fields, obey his command. Isildur says he fears touching the Ring for that. So this indicates that one of the One's powers would be to extend its hold over Morgoth's creatures.

[@istari0]

@@rafaelgustavo7786 Possibly, if someone were trained in its use to dominate the minds of others and had a sufficiently powerful mind to begin with. Gandalf, Saruman, and Galadriel likely could with enough time. I'm not so sure about Isildur.

[@Caesar_1415]

Very interesting theory thank you for this theory!

[@alexjonker7380]

You know how to tell a story beautifully.

[@johncheffy4775]

Manwe would commune with Eru and he would Authorise Maiar to bring Sauron to The Halls of Mandos . The Noldor led by Eonwe and support from second children would easily assault Barador .

[@johncheffy4775]

I wrote this at the beginning of the video , great minds think alike . 😉

[@Fire0warrior182]

Damn amazing how they retook middle earth, but sadden the end of Aagorn. Awesome fantasy!!!

[@chriswold6731]

This legitimately made me emotional.

[@lexieve9118]

I have long wondered, could any of the Nazgul possess and claim the One Ring? Or were they too far gone and too heavily under the control of Sauron to even think of taking It for themselves?

[@anubusx]

They were to under Sauron's rule.

[@lexieve9118]

@@anubusx Really? I never read that anywhere. It seemed the Ring would allow Sauron's physical form ti be remade and the Nazgul were strictly being forced to deliver the Ring to Sauron. Do you gave any quotes that state the Nazgul would keep the Ring?

[@anubusx]

@@lexieve9118 What i meant to say was that none of them would try and take it for themselves.

[@lexieve9118]

@@anubusx ah, okay. I misread what you meant! Gotcha. That's ny general feel too, but I have wondered. Thanks

[@anubusx]

@@lexieve9118 👍

[@RoquenoLiraIluvatarva]

I think this video, though it's very good, demonstrates the biggest weakness in Tolkien's writing: the role of divine intervention. Specifically, if the Valar had just directly interfered, there would be no need for the Fellowship to go through all the hardships they went through. But it seems they only interfere when *their* land is threatened. Eru only destroyed Númenor because they assailed the Valar. Here the Valar only help because Sauron achieved a greater victory than Morgoth had, which I guess makes him a threat to them? So many lives could have been saved if even a single Vala arrived in Mordor to destroy Sauron as soon as he was revealed, with no risk of him regaining the Ring. Are we then to conclude that the Valar value their own convenience above [hundreds? thousands? tens of thousands?] of lives of the Children of Ilúvatar? What does that say about Eru's character?

[@sauronpwbr9283]

I think you gave little credit to Aragorn... The way I see it he was beyond his ancestors Elendil and Isildur. I think that, perhaps, he could muster the free peoples and even defeat Sauron in single combat. He was an absolute beast.

[@SunnyLovetts]

That’s so messed up lol jeez!!

[@elmdel565]

Now this is what amazon prime should listen and learn something

[@derekwilson4095]

I love these theory videos! I definitely think the ending you surmised would’ve happened, Sauron’s defeat because the host of the Valar came.

[@JustFlemishMe]

Cool theory! I'd like to add(/alter a little :) ). Will get fanfic-y... Sauron would likely push into Osgiliath, and then Minas Tirith, first. At the same time, he would order his lieutenant at Dol Guldur to strike hard at Lothlórien. Without Galadriel's magic, the Golden Forest would be doomed. Next, Sauron would revive an old plan. He would push harder on Erebor, at least containing it and taking Dale and Esgaroth. Of course, when he'd take the Mountain, he'd have a vast treasure to fund his war machine and political and economic reforms, but like in the Hobbit movies, he'd be interested in its position. Controlling both this area and Rhûn would give him direct access to Gundabad. From there, he could resurrect Angmar, or at least operate in Eriador, and move down the Misty Mountains to destroy the Eagles and link up with Moria. With Lothlórien destroyed, Sauron could then move on to Dol Guldur, trapping the Woodmen, the Beornings and the Woodland Realm in a massive pincer movement. Sauron would make a few detours, taking a small elite force to destroy the Shire (and any remaining Dúnedain guarding it) and later sending a small force ahead to Moria while he would lead the main army to raze Rivendell to the ground. He'd also detach troops to siege the Grey Havens, having previously ordered a Corsair fleet to blockade the Elven ports. However, in his days of triumph, Sauron would be forced to direct his attention elsewhere. Rivendell lay in ruins. A most pleasing sight to the Lord of Mordor. He noticed a messenger nervously making his way to him. Variag, from the looks of him. "Great one, I bring word from my Warlord," the messenger spoke, handing Sauron a parchment. One of his most loyal allies in Khând had attended a meeting of many notables from across the land. Another Warlord had given a speech, recorded in the letter: "Warlords, the Lord of Mordor, who styles himself a god, has stretched out his talons for our lands, bribing us, threatening us. We are now gathered here, all my countrymen. And still some of you hesitate. You are so sollicitous about your state in the Dark Lord's Empire. And while you fight among yourselves for Mordor's favour, an even greater vision is crying out to be seen: a country of our own. A Free Khând. Let us stand against the Shadow. Unite the tribes!" Sauron's mood soured instantly. He clenched his fist, his Ring glowing, the parchment turning to ash in his hand. Far away in Mordor Mount Doom erupted with his wrath. "It appears I am required back home." The 'Free Khând' speech proved a catalyst. A week after, the speaker gathered with his supporters and concluded the Golden Alliance with them. He was declared Supreme War Leader, immediately mobilizing for a brutal war against Sauron. Only days later, the rebellion spread to Near Harad. Tribes with reservations about Sauron grew desperate to stop him, instinctively sensing he had grown even more powerful and fearing it was the final chance. The Haradrim rebels organized into the Coalition of the Spears of the Sun. The day after the Spears of the Sun began their campaign, a mob in Rhûn, furious over Sauron's role in taking their sons, gold and supplies, lynched several Sauron-aligned nobles, priests preaching violence and nobles taking up the cause. A long safe stronghold for Sauron was now engulfed in bitter civil war. Yet Sauron's power would likely have shattered all these threats in months... were it not so that the world didn't end where the most famous maps did. Arda is Earth, and Middle-Earth the Old World, in a more mythical state. That means the Far East and Sub-Saharan Africa are there. Middle-Earth should have its own version of China, perhaps the Ming, India, probably divided into warring factions, Japan, the Empire of Mali, Kush... These would likely feel threatened, rightly, by Sauron. The Blue Wizards may have gone to China and India, galvanizing and organizing resistance against Sauron. And so, with the Spears of the Sun cornered by armies loyal to Sauron, they would be reinforced by dark-skinned warriors, with strong cavalry and great numbers of excellent archers. The Mansa of Ouadougou (Mali) and the Queen of Yodit (Kush) have pledged their support to the rebels. And now it is an equal fight. In the East, the Sauron-aligned factions in Gupta (India) are beaten by local enemies, Morinehtar and Army Group South from Dai Chung (China), sent on the urging of Romestamo. The latter Blue Wizard also travels to Zipen (Japan), convincing the local rulers to send a contingent of their famed warriors. The Dai Chung Army Group North pacifies their own borders, while Army Group West marches into Rhûn, supporting the rebels and battling Sauron's forces to a standstill. Suddenly seeing Sauron beset from all sides, the Free Peoples take heart. The Dwarves of the Blue Mountains march to the Grey Havens and break the siege. The Corsair fleet blockading the port city returns home, its presence now pointlless - just too late to prevent a naval defeat for their comrades at the hands of the Mansa's navy. The Grey Havens become the new center of resistance in Eriador. Army Group North marches west. The troops besieging Erebor are already demoralized from the troubling news pouring in, and the relief force, joined by a sally of Dúrin's Folk, Bardings and Men of the Lake, shatters them. In turn, this emboldens the Elves of the Woodland Realm and their allies, marching north to link up with them. Messengers are sent between the rulers that oppose Sauron. Exactly a year after the Battle of the Black Gate, they sign a treaty, declaring themselves 'the Union of Light'. The warriors of Zipen join Army Group Center and the Easterlings defying Sauron. Army Group South and the Guptans march into Khând, aiding the Golden Alliance. Army Group North divides its forces: one supporting the Kingdom Under the Mountain and the Bardings in attacking Gundabad, which Círdan will assault from the west, and one marching south, to join the Woodland Realm, the Woodmen and the Beornings in fighting Sauron's forces in Dol Guldur. (Going a bit further than even I am comfortable with: a combination of post-Númenorean accounts of distant travel in canon and inspiration from the Vinlandsaga, the tale of the Malian fleet sailing into the west and never returning and the 1421 hypothesis, maybe the Union would even recruit Native American civilisations like the Mayans, Incas and northern tribes like the Sioux, Iroquois etc. A bit much for even me, but technically possible.) Sauron is in dire straits. And he loves it. Secure in Mordor, reunited with his Ring, he himself is still unassailable. His resources remain significant, and he is still a political mastermind - with Rings to offer. How united is the Union of Light really? And at what point exactly does the second Host of the West step in?

[@synthWizkid]

I really LOVE your channel SO MUCH ❤️

[@austinwilkes8556]

I wouldn't give up on Aragorn so early and I personally wouldn't count out Glorfindel and Elrond so early...I like the idea of Sauron getting his ring back, maybe not with the help of Frodo turning but him toe to toe with the best of the west, sure, that would make an epic battle worthy of praise and glory found in song and tale. And if we're going full what if, Saruman aids the white council in fear or Sauron but a forgotten balrog is awakened...or a dragon

[@Nodim1er]

I see the title, and think: "Well sh** . It ain't gonna be pretty." Still, great video as usual Yoistan.

[@TristanTzara100]

I love all these theory videos. Have you ever considered publishing them in book form?

[@grandadmiralzaarin4962]

Kind of irritating that the Valar had the power to fix the problem they caused but left those most vulnerable to carry that burden

[@lenowin]

That's the whole point of the story, that sometimes the weakest can be the strongest.

[@grandadmiralzaarin4962]

@@lenowin more like the weakest having to pick up the slack the Valar left and screwed up...guess it rolls downhill in Middle Earth too...

[@andrewg.carvill4596]

There was a Man in the real history of the world who was hung up like a banner to demonstrate the defeat of Good, but whose hanging was ultimately to result in the defeat of Evil. Images of the defeat of that Man, whose defeat broke the power of evil, can be found in millions of homes (and hearts) in today's world. How this victory came about, as the well as the ultimate destiny of Men, was hidden from all except Iluvatar in Tolkien's Middle Earth.

[@Yesica1993]

I'm glad for the glimmer of hope at the end, but oh, my! Let's hope Hollywood is not pondering a similar remake, to make things "dark and edgy." That would be so unbearably depressing.

[@jesuscoyt-munoz2753]

This theory although very dark is fitting given what Sauron is capable of but I’d add rather he turned Aragorn into a temporary slave or bodyguard for Sauron and after the battle he’d be freed and rebuild middle earth however he’d do it alone due to Arwen staying in valinor but who knows. Still great theory yoystan oh and perhaps after the history of Angmar video you could do a theory video if angmar was defeated before the witch king destroyed the north kingdom?

[@IronDragon-2143]

This was a well written and well made video to say that "We're all screwed."

[@MenoftheWest]

Hehe thanks! I’m pretty long-winded 😅

[@IronDragon-2143]

@@MenoftheWest I ain't complaining. Your videos are too much fun.

[@kirandeepchakraborty7921]

I really loved your take on this topic

[@natirsagohuis4062]

Mae govannen! Very nice video and very nice story. I was amazed at the turn of events, that good old Tom Bombadil made an appearance. I would imagine that this last place of hope, while all else seems lost, would become a beacon where refugees from the last free people would gather. And as the Valar and elves return to Middle Earth, they would be surprised by a remnant of men, dwarves and hobbits, living under Tom's care. After the defeat of Sauron, those people would repopulate the land, cleanse it with wisdom and peace of mind learned from Tom and build the new kingdoms of the fourth age, an age where hospitality, friendship and gardening held as the highest vitues

[@michaelpustilnik6914]

This video seems correct to me. Eru and the Valar would not have let Sauron dominate Middle-Earth for long. But this would be a terrible ending for an epic adventure tale. The good characters fail, evil triumphs, and are only saved by the direct intervention of greater powers. This was the major flaw in the ending of the Silmarillion; a repeat failure in the Third Age is not a good story.

[@rickythe2nd63]

This was AWESOME! Much rather watch this as a film than ROP!

[@Dreadnought358]

I’d like to see a story if Saron never joined Morgath and choose to stand against him. That is a story id like to hear.

[@OrkosUA]

Awesome video, precisely for out times.

[@logansfury]

This was a fantastic and riveting fan-fiction! I'd say you stuck very well to canon and predicted Tolkien very well. I can easily see Tolkien writing the tale you told. I'm about to finish my latest re-read of Unfinished Tales. My library is a bit incomplete, I've the Hobbit, the Trilogy, the Silmarillion, Smith of Wooton Major and Farmer Giles of Ham, all of which I read along with the Tales at least once yearly. I own a copy of The Book of Lost Tales 1, but I rarely re-read it as the first drafts and early writings are very different in feel from the later published writings. Googling Tolkien Books, I am astounded at the over 50 books avail. I need to seek out among these the ones with the latest writings and fill my library out a bit. Can anyone suggest the books who's stories are closest in canon to the latest writings? I've a feeling Beren and Luthien, and The Fall of Gondolin might be good starts.

[@venkelos6996]

I saw a similar video to thus several years ago, and it ended much the same; Sauron "won", bur then stragglers made it to Valinor, beseeching the Valar for help, and they came, stomping Sauron like a child, for even his power was as nothing to theirs. Honestly, I'm not really a fan of this. If they could just ask the Valar to help, and the Valar could come in force, why did they play the whole game I'd emissaries, and trying to let Men do it without them? Their victory didn't destroy the world this time; Sauron did damage, but he couldn't fight them, and Aule could just destroy the Ring easy. If they could do this, why not do this? Why lwt so many people suffer, and die, before spanking Sauron for being a bad child? I know we are supposed to believe that Good won't let Evil triumph, but if Eru Illuvatar would just snap His fingers, and fix everything, that should have been the initial plan.

[@andrewhead1840]

Very sad, but enjoyable video. :-) I was watching it, while drinking some liqueur mead! :) :-) Very appropriate and fitting! :-)

[@istari0]

Excellent story! It would be interesting to pursue it farther as with the elves gone and the surviving Free Peoples crippled, Middle-Earth would have still been largely in shambles. Would the Host of the West stay to offer assistance to help things get back on track? If they don't, it's easy to see scenarios where Middle-Earth remains in a Dark Age for quite some time.