Mental Load in UniVersus | Tam Talk

[@makingsenseofus]

This kind of content and discussion is why I’ve supported you on Patreon for 2 years. This argument is thoughtful, thorough and does a great job of getting to the truth of the matter without coming off as dismissive. I have my own shorthand sorting mechanism, very similar but slightly different, but mastering the mental load of the game does involve larger staging area categorization that is learned from playing. Maybe if categorization was in some way visually present on the card (offensive/defensive/both/techy), the designers could give players tools to reduce mental load by giving them a built in way to sort your stage.

[@MattIsAMage]

To add to the conversation proper: I agree with the methodology of the PEDA loop, and from both a player and a computer science view point. it is far better mentally to start with a clear head. then go one by one "Does this matter at this moment?", save the parts that matter, and probably 80% of the time it cuts the data references in HALF at minimum. then after we're done making 1 choice. Clear the Cache, do it again. and repeating that will then boost speed. This lines up with the first thing I point out about attack cards: at MOST, only 2 numbers (and/or zone) on this card will actually matter. there are 7 different Values here, you never care about all 5 at the same time. if you're playing it: just difficulty. if you're checking it, just the check Value. if its in play: only speed/damage (and zone) if its blocking: only mod (and zone). There are a lot of information on every since card. New players are not looking at the check values on every foundation on both stages. so we should not assume we are all doing that method with every single card in view. If a computer is storing every single data point in its memory and never removing it, its going to run slow. this is true. that's why we have RAM, not just SSD. this is a RAM heavy game (which I also mention to new players, did not realise how actually true that was till now), stop using SSD to remember I have 7 face downs while I'm attacking. Thank you again to Sam for the meme vid, I love seeing my stupid hands in random vids!

[@drdeath7479]

I love playing uvs. But what keeps me coming back is its complexity. I love having so much to think about and plan around. If the game was oversimplified it would be fun, but it would lose the biggest draw for me. I have other simple games i enjoy. I can get a simple game anywhere and there is nothing wrong with that. But i cant get the mental rush the complexity of uvs gives me in any other game i play. And that is why i love uvs.

[@JTgosha]

Hey Tam, great video and great content. I recently got interested into the game thanks to the Yu Yu Hakusho (one of my favourite anime). I am also a person who enjoys learning new games. I used to play a lot of MTG a bit of FaB and some Lorcana. I picked up the Critical Role challenger decks, but they seem to be quite complex and daunting. Any suggestion what deck to build as a beginner and try to play in TTS? Especially if nobody plays the game around here (I live in Europe). I tried to follow your gameplay videos, but things are moving so quick that I am lost within a minute's time... If you every did more videos for beginners to ease up the learning curve it would be absolutely amazing!

[@jmlchaosdragon]

I feel like the wukong starter deck should be send to every shop so they can teach to new player and there should be a secondary side deck with 20-30 card with more complex card so the shop can easily teach the game then put the side deck with more complex card to show how the game could be with a more competitive deck.

[@MegaMuffinManX]

I’m a casual player. The thing that was (and still is) the hardest for me is internalizing what all the cards do. Because even if you're doing a PEDA loop, you still have to understand what the cards are in order to evaluate whether they’re relevant. I feel like the people who are really familiar with the game can recognize a card based on the art or name. They may not fully remember what the card does, but they may remember the gist. Like this card is speed-hate, stun-hate, etc.. For example, even in the PEDA explanation that Tam gave using the TTS turn (33:42), he still knew what his rival foundations did without having to pause and read the cards. But if you’re new, reading what the cards are and evaluating whether they’re relevant is rough. On top of that, it’s entirely uncommon (at least in my experience) to ask your opponent to rotate all their foundations at the start of your turn so that you can read and evaluate them. So if you’re learning the game, you tend to simply ignore what is happening on your opponent’s side of the board and just focus on your own stage. Or even more likely, focus on only part of your stage and then forget that you had cards that had relevant responses. **What would really help is if we can somehow organize our stages in such a way that made them easier to parse.** For example, we could group foundations in terms of cards that have a relevant ability during my turn, my opponents turn, both player’s turns, or cards with no abilities (i.e., committed, blank, or sealed foundations). Or perhaps group foundations based on their effects. For example, foundations in one section of my stage modify stats, foundations in another section let me draw cards, etc. Something that reduces the mental load by reducing the number of cards you need to evaluate in any given situation. The only trouble is, since Universus is a complex game there are so many different types of abilities that it might be difficult to cleanly group them. Another option for better on-boarding might be summarizing what your foundations do for your opponent when you build them. You don’t necessarily need to remember what every card does, but at least pick out if there are any that are particularly strong, or nasty, or relevant for character abilities.

[@TheDualRevolver]

I think what makes UVS hard to learn (for TCG players) is how different it is from every other card game. The core gameplay, the most basic mechanics, are the first barrier players must overcome in order to have an enjoyable experience. And that's something we have to live with because that's really what makes this game fun. It doesn't matter if you like playing aggro characters or going for massive stages, in the end, everyone will make checks to build foundations, play attacks and try to murder their opponent. I have yet to hear someone complain about the game being bad after teaching them and playing some rounds. Which brings me to my main issue with UVS: no one plays this game in my area because there's literally 0 support. No new product, not a local scene, no ads, no demo events to get people to know the game. It's just me carrying UVS's corpse all over the city. The cherry on top was cancelling all prerelease events not only in my country (Spain) but in all Europe. There are no prerelease kits available. Only a few shops have received booster boxes to sell. No webcam regionals! No real tournament experience! Way to kill a wonderful game.

[@cameronundergust132]

Great video Tam! I had a lot of similar thoughts on this news. Also didn’t know you are a martial artist, awesome!

[@RoginusD51]

First time getting into TCG games. Bought a few My Hero decks but never could figure out how to play. Picked up One Piece and Dragon Ball Super Fusion World instead. Been able to learn those pretty quick. Definitely wanting to start learning My Hero. I don't mind that it's challenging. It's just a pretty steep learning curve.

[@CharManyrd]

I came into the game around Heroes Clash, it was pretty easy for me to learn after sitting down with it a little bit. When I went to nationals last year and played retro that was ROUGH. OG Universus was tough to learn, BUT modern Universus , IMHO , isn't that tough to learn, I wouldn't really say the game is hard to learn or understand I think its the way some people are being taught? Its hard to say, my best friend and I have done a few demo events before and we always have a great time/easy time teaching people. Its one of those things that I get nervous they will strip the game to the core of a game and make it hyper-simplistic. I wish I was a game dev or something so that I could give a good suggestion and not just my opinion.

[@vincent.marrone]

Okay but real talk... I forgot what cards were on top of my deck with Jiro 1 during nats. Insane I even won 5 games

[@pablija5]

as someone who started playing one month ago and had a long history with card games ill say that while i do agree with a lot of points that you make, i think you have forgotten how does this game feel to a new player, it doesnt matter if things dont matter to the game state, it doesnt matter if its turn 2 and an attack has deadlock so i shouldnt pay attention to it, as a new player learning what the cards do, keywords, how turns work, its overwhelming and thats playing fairly simple decks, i couldnt differenciate between things that matter or dont at a glance, i have to read every card and 99% of cards do something or multiple things. thats the mental load/overwhelming part of the game. ive grown past it and now i understand the game and a boardstate very quickly, i dont think the game has to be simplificated, but something has to be done about the on boarding of new players mtg is way easier to teach, turn one, land, turn two, land and a vanilla creature, turn 3 attack and play another simple creature, we need something equivalent and starter decks arent it, nor are lower powerlevel or low interaction decks

[@atalkingrock]

when you said increase our teaching tools i lol. i spend so much time trying to figure out how a card works. most of the time i just try to find a deck on youtube that uses the card and wait to see how it works.

[@hollowfiedichigo]

I'm sure I'll be attacked for this but imo the Final Fantasy card game is the hardest game. I'm new to Universus but have watched a lot of matches and now played quite a bit. Universus has been fun and interesting, providing interaction back and forth so I understand a bit where people are coming from in thinking its the hardest. First point I'd like to make is that simply deck building could be incredibly complex because you have insane creative freedom. I have never seen a card game allow you to build a deck with ratios that vary so greatly. To put it in Universus terms it would be like being able to create competitive decks that have only 5 foundations or attacks. That would seem ridiculous in any other card game. Your deck can include a ridiculous number of combinations of different elements and ratios. This isn't limited to just the elements of the cards but also the costs, types, jobs, etc, which is also available in Universus but not to the same degree. Second point is that because there is so much freedom of creativity the interactions in the game can be very diverse and fun. Before taking a single action the amount of thought dedicated to what responses your opponent can play has been far beyond what I have seen or experienced in any other card game. Since elements and abilities can be combined so well you can interact the way you want to with only creativity and well thought out planning to hold you back. Simply net decking will not win you tournaments the way it will in other card games because the strategy and tactics involved are not quite so clear cut that you can just pick it up and go dominate without a good amount of understanding. Third point is the traditional stack system, which many card games have, that allows for more slightly thoughtful interaction than back and forth interaction. Since the cost is more clearly assessed vs a "check" the handling of resources plays a big role in how you can play with your opponent. Obviously how many effects you activate during your priority and when in the stack you activate drastically affects outcomes. I could continue but I think I rambled enough. In conclusion I don't think Universus is as complicated as many believe it to be but it provides a really fun experience with enough depth and complexity to make it enjoyable for longer than most card games on the market. I typed this simply because I felt like the difficulty of Universus is overstated a little bit and that same depiction of difficulty has been a hindrance to enticing new members to play Final Fantasy TCG, something I hope Universus can more easily avoid. I really enjoyed this video, as I have all of your videos and I think you do a great job creating content for both newbies like myself and more advanced players alike.

[@sauceploxx4565]

I find yugioh to be the hardest game tcg has to offer. The amount of text, the understanding of types of cards/effects, mechanics, deck building and its %s, and the ocean wide amount of niche interactions, and then the whole battle phase chart. Open game state vs closed game state, when/if effects, inherit summons vs effect summons, the list goes on. Konami struggles to get new players into modern yugioh. Thats why Edison format and Goat are so popular, its much much simpler

[@Elenheru]

I came to this game BECAUSE of its complexity. I despise how companies constantly telling player bases "your getting stupid, so let us 'streamline' our game 'for you'." This pisses me off. I am a thinking man who wants crunch in my game. A crunch that I choose, to My level, based on what deck style I choose. Not a conpany telling me to pick a color of what may as well be the same crap as there is too few options!

[@Rayquaza894]

Harder than Fab? Naw

[@MattIsAMage]

Thats me!!! I'm the edgeshot player!!!

[@TheKaijudist]

Bill Stark's article was accurate. Not sure why people were so butthurt

[@Pokephantom]

Yes Sensei Tam!

[@Malhaloc]

The fact that UVS is complex is a turn on for me. I was so tired of seeing what Bandai has been doing in their games. "Cards are basically just a bonus to damage. You play your bonuses, your opponent plays his bonuses, then the bigger number wins." DBS is so brain dead. I don't know a whole lot about One Piece, but it looks braindead from what I've seen. I like the Digimon game, but it's pretty braindead. UVS is so refreshing!