Meshuggah Lesson

Part two of our Meshuggah Lesson looks into Meshuggha's use of Polymeter to create their brutal riffs and odd feels. I realized that before people can count more complex group based patterns we needed to focus on some basic counting as well as clarify the difference between polymeter, polyrhythms and what Meshuggah is exactly playing. The opening riff of Perpetual Black Second is a perfect example of their use of Polymeter (and in turn creating some sweet Rhythmic Displacement). The opening riff is in 7/8 (against 8/8) then switches to 9/8 (against 8/8). The riffs shifts back (and forward) in time against the repeated drum pattern causing Rhythmic Displacement ie the snare falls on different parts of the riff.
FOR ALL LESSON TRANSCRIPTIONS AND MORE CLICK HERE
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[@WarlokMetal]

Not bad bro. Great explanation of Poly-meter vs. Poly-rhythm. The comments about sound quality are ridiculous. The sound quality and tuning are not the point of this video. Its about technique and theory. You could be playing a banjo and still get your point across. Besides, these types of times and rhythms are incredibly hard to play even without fretting any notes. Counting can be done, but without feel your going to fall flat. One of the coolest things about Meshuggah songs is that they all add up to 4/4 eventually! Good job man.

[@axeofcreation]

Thank you. You should message me and I'll send you some strings for comment of the decade.

[@linusstoltz1207]

jason mccullough allmost all add up to 4/4... almost

[@Calilou52]

You really deserve more subs man. I have some friends getting into guitar and i told them all to go right to your channel for some great tips and tricks to get started. You've taught me a lot man, thank you. A year ago i wanted to give up on guitar because i figured i wasn't improving. After finding this channel along with two other guitar channels, it really opened me up to all kinds of new ways to approach playing. I also have learned tons of my favorite songs from this channel

[@axeofcreation]

Try to think of it this way. The guitar riff is two measures but instead of dividing that equally in half (two m. of 4/4) the phrase of the riff is actually one (8th) note short the first measure (7/8) and one (8th) long the second measure (9/8). The "awkwardness" happens because the drums play a straight 4/4. The guitar riff starts again on the upbeat of 4 (1st measure) and runs an extra note long.

[@SevenStringShredHead]

thank god a meshuggah lesson from someone who actually knows what they're talking about! nicely done

[@Boston3269]

i must say i am so happy to have found your channel. i have been playing for so long with no formal teaching. as i look to take my playing to the next level these videos have been an amazing way for me to just sit down, when i have a few extra minutes, and learn a ton of new techniques. the way you make these, they are very easy to comprehend. just wanted to say thank you for the hard work you put into these.

[@axeofcreation]

Yes, a lot of what they do is pure syncopation but this example (and many others) is a clear cut polymeter (which naturally causes syncopation). Glad it helped.

[@axeofcreation]

@numpoi Thank you so much. I'm glad you enjoy them!

[@edrock78]

Thanks man, your a great teacher. I've been playing for about 15 years now, but could never really get the hang of playing in anything other than 4/4. This video helps.

[@axeofcreation]

@JosephMCorbett Thank you so much man. Very much appreciated.

[@axeofcreation]

@TheFireball100 Sweet. 7/8 is a great feel. You can do so much with it.

[@axeofcreation]

@Adriaticon That's a hard one. Try and think of it in a triplet shuffle feel that lasts in a sense 11/8. So you get a 123 123 123 12 kind've accent. Four time through then the last one has the awkward extension of an added beat.

[@guitarholictv4906]

very well explained... If I had a teacher like you I would have continued having guitar lessons...

[@avakinlifeuser6888]

Lol

[@axeofcreation]

@UKRCyanide Absolutely!! Playing and creating chords is one of my favorite things to do! Thanks a lot!!

[@axeofcreation]

Some fantastic ideas for composition

[@Eduardot12345556]

i watched another one of your videos earlier today, you're awesome, thanks to you now i completely understand the polyrhythm thing.

[@technodrone7723]

this just literally solved every issue i had understanding all 3 terms. Thank you!

[@axeofcreation]

@smurftojohn Very cool! Glad I can help. Thanks!

[@axeofcreation]

@Kapteininnlysende Self taught guitarist with a Masters in Music. Thanks so much!!

[@axeofcreation]

@XuL666 That's because it's in Four!

[@Metalfeak3]

@RGdood The whole video was to explain "polymeters and rhythemic displacement". None of this had anything to do with his guitar tone or riffs. They were merely examples and not for show. I think he did a great job explaining it.

[@axeofcreation]

@JonasBGuitar if your counting 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & (measure of 8th notes) the downbeats are the 1234 and the upbeats are all the &'s

[@axeofcreation]

It's a custom I had made awhile back.

[@axeofcreation]

@Thermingt0n haha, it's behind the camera now. Had to make room for some sweet art.

[@DSoverPSP]

It is. It's just that when he plays the guitar riff in 7/8 over the drum pattern in 4/4, it creates a rhythmic displacement that causes the snare to accent different parts of the riff, even though it always hits on the third beat. The odd 7/8 meter on the riff causes it start on different beats of the measure whenever it repeats. so its like [1 2 3 4][5 6 7 1][2 3 4 5][6 7 1 2]....He explains it in the video, maybe you missed that part.

[@axeofcreation]

Thank you! Much appreciated!

[@BraveMavrick]

Graet lesson, just got a baritone 7 string and wanted to try something different. I've allways been intrested in off timing riffs, eg Tool. This should give me a good start.

[@axeofcreation]

@Meshuggaaaahhhhh The best crooked number!

[@axeofcreation]

@Donaldkhaos That's actually the "Creeping Death" single LP

[@axeofcreation]

@pumpkinheadjrb Yes, great call. That's something I use in my own writing all the time.lesson on that coming soon to be sure!

[@UKRCyanide]

Great lesson as usual! I don't know if you take requests or lesson ideas but would you please consider doing a lesson on unusual chords (classical influenced) as I've been trying to write some new music but when I feel it's time to use a clean section I have nothing unique or exciting to use. Thanks a lot!

[@axeofcreation]

@BringerOfBloood You can if it helps but I would let the riff dictate how you count. A lot of 7/8 riffs can have a "notey" feel which counting eighth notes is more useful.

[@maljamin]

maybe 7/8 and 9/8 are just polyrhthms of 63/8 ;P

[@darkySp]

You're on some grade A shrooms, dude!

[@axeofcreation]

It doesn't really have to be difficult. If you analyze the riff you get what I've presented. But really you can think of it as just two measures of 4/4. Half way through you shift to the upbeat (hence the off time feel). Check out my recent lesson on syncopation where I discuss just that. Thanks!

[@thevikingwarrior11]

Meshuggah was actually tuned all the way down to drop E for a couple songs on the Nothing album including Perpetual Black Second.

[@axeofcreation]

@Mike010ekiM Sorry for the delay. I've been absolutely swamped. More lessons on the way very soon!!!

[@PunkCheVara]

Dont try to count meshuggah riffs, brains will explode. They dont use polymeters, They use syncopations on a 4/4 beat.(they said so in their lesson) anyways, i still learnt something, so thanks :D

[@choronzon69]

Syncopations over 4/4 creates cycles of odd-groupings, which is another way of explaining what a polymeter is. They don't think about it this way though, yes, but Marten and Tom have always described it as odd-groupings superimposed over 4/4.

[@axeofcreation]

@Mike010ekiM That's awesome! I'll have to set up a merch shop :) Definitely in the que! Thanks

[@axeofcreation]

@TempestaRiggs It will definitely help you the hear, recognize and express some interesting rhythmical ideas

[@JonasBGuitar]

@axeofcreation Thanks for the simple explanation!

[@Bkesal14]

Great video! Accessible discussion of a super interesting band.

[@axeofcreation]

Thank you so much!

[@axeofcreation]

@SevenStringShredHead Gracias good sir!!

[@redmurder13]

It's awesome people like you who makes normal humans like me play like a god. Thanks for these lessons you do and keep doing them! \m/

[@gorikoza]

you know what you're talking about. thanks for making these videos.

[@DoritoMcBeef]

THANK YOU! I always had a hard time understanding how this works!

[@axeofcreation]

Did I say drop F somewhere? Or drop the tuning down a half step to F? If I said "drop F" it wasn't on purpose. Thanks, I know it's hysterical.

[@axeofcreation]

@apixx1 Nice suggestion!! Thanks

[@axeofcreation]

@cashkrop np!

[@axeofcreation]

Much appreciated!!!

[@mickey007r]

great lessons! it would be so awesome if you'd make some more with actual on screen note thanks

[@axeofcreation]

It's the Creeping Death single on vinyl.

[@pumpkinheadjrb]

Another good idea if you're trying to write in more of a melodic composition, is to write something in 8/8 and play it again in 7/8, so the second time you leave out the last note, and then repeat. It sounds pretty cool. I've noticed the human abstract and btbam use it quite a bit

[@wilkinsos]

Great video , sick amazing skills and sounds awesome!

[@JonasBGuitar]

Anyone bother explaining what Up- and Downbeats are? Looked it up at Wikipedia, but the article in my language is poor and the one in english is hard to understand... Interesting videos you got by the way!

[@telo62]

That helps a ton! Thanks

[@axeofcreation]

If it breaks down into something stupid like 25/16 they I totally understand memorizing the pattern but this concept is simple at it's core, it's just eighth notes.

[@axeofcreation]

@mexicanwootwoot I've never used that model before but I would try using one of the metal amp models. Try thinning out the bass while boosting your Mids ands highs. Don't overdue the gain setting, you shouldn't need more than say 60%

[@axeofcreation]

@Ibanezmarro Awesome, thanks!! That's a great dvd btw

[@New_Millennium_Cyanide_Christ]

Thank you for this tutorial. Keep making these awesome videos

[@axeofcreation]

@skycaptain141 It's a custom

[@axeofcreation]

@BringerOfBloood I took it down because I'm re-doing it to improve the audio quality

[@Sansatilla]

nice growl in your tone. is it from a pod, or from an amp?

[@BringerOfBloood]

Btw what do you think of counting 7/8 like one-and-a-two-and-three-and and stuff like that? I think it makes the divisions much easier to understand

[@axeofcreation]

It's actually a custom I had made many moons ago.

[@chickensmile64]

3:38 so simple yet so brutal/badass sounding

[@68696c6c]

great job breaking it down man. good vid.

[@axeofcreation]

I teach mostly but I have several projects in the works. You can check out my last projects (s.t.e.m.) album on my website and some other demo stuff on my soundcloud(s)

[@axeofcreation]

@RGdood yeah...the camera (mic) I was using at the time wasn't very good. Stay classy 'bro'...

[@saurabhbasu86new]

are you a professional music teacher or do you compose more often. I would like to listen to your compositions.

[@CodeNashor]

Nice, nice, nice and helpful!!!!

[@TheFloatingBartender]

Hey man, you make me want to learn guitar..so I can play drums better make sense? and you putting in a way I understand. dude you rock.

[@timcarpenter6098]

I'm still learning these kinds of rhythms, but I do know somewhat how to 'feel' them. It's kind of like getting in to the groove of a song, and then playing with the rhythm, I guess. Here is a song I wrote today, was bored and wanted to lay down an idea so, here it is. soundcloud.com/tim-huntoon/ghost-of-dispair

[@ifluxion]

That picture of the cute kid on the book shelf in your video is so fucking metal.

[@brianrosser72]

Appreciate you fam

[@axeofcreation]

@jdmimport13 Thanks!

[@kalikamusic]

I once dreamed I was a meshuggah.

[@Adriaticon]

The Exquisite Machinery of Torture... 2 min 23 sec what's the time signature here....it sounds like a 7/8 then 9/8 pattern again...which amounts to 16 breaking down to a 4/4...but if you count it in a 4/4...it doesn't work...this riff i think is the most disjointed out of all of Meshuggah's work...would be keen for a vid on this...

[@anthonycarlisle1863]

I like your ideas of polymeter/rhythm, but that perpetual black second tune is more easily expressed as an 8 count with snare on 3 & 7 through both riff variations you talk about.

[@XxOSTONEBENOTSOxX]

thanks !! ill note that n i think im starting to get it ..

[@carlpowell0]

awesome video thakns!

[@PunkCheVara]

ok, explains a great deal, :D I am a beginner, what sort of amp (budget) should i buy to get an aproximatly djenty tone?

[@BlvdRoad]

Did meshuggah study rhythms or what cuz this is more technical than I thought

[@apixx1]

could you also please do something jazzy? Maybe chords or scales etc and show how to use them in metal :)

[@mexicanwootwoot]

hey, i need help making the djent tone/ sound of my guitar. i only have a fender gdec 3 and a bc rich avenge.

[@axeofcreation]

I know, I'm terrible...

[@BringerOfBloood]

What happened to the first meshuggah lesson? I can't find it anywhere!

[@axeofcreation]

It's one syllable. If you say 'seven' you're actually playing two beats.

[@McDouchebag22]

What's that metallica picture in the bottom right?

[@metaldemonseanknels]

their tuning is all strings 1/2 step down, so it would be F standard

[@IAmWorseThanYou]

they are only half a step down from 8string standard. apart from on a couple of tracks

[@venusasaboy]

You don't talk about the truncation to get it back into 4.

[@LuisSidd]

I cant find the first part of this lesson :( can anyone help me?

[@Useless_crap]

Meshuggah is F standard on an 8 string. FYI.

[@venusasaboy]

As in they lengthen the 7/8 rhythm so it fits into 8 bars of 4/4

[@labounti]

I wish I could play good and understand all of this.

[@bloodstoned42069]

@axeofcreation All your other videos I watched before this you were in your living room. As soon as i started this video that picture was the first thing I noticed haha. I was gonna comment on it but ifluxion beat me to it. But I had to comment on how you break everything down and explain it so well. I actually feel like I'm learning new things from your videos. I'm not just watching someone play and trying to copy them. Keep up the great work! Maybe breakdown some Brandon Small (Dethklok)

[@thechristophersean]

you should do something on anthrax

[@down7unedpc740]

you should do this with some veil of maya songs off eclipse

[@axeofcreation]

@kr3w0804 ok then...

[@EmilBringsli]

Very well explained, I must admit! Say, you show a formidable understanding of music, have you taken any formal musical education, or are you self taught? Clearly you must have taken SOME form of lecturing!