Messenia in Greek Dark Ages (1100-770 BC)

Following the collapse of the Mycenaean Greece, much of Peloponnese eventually fell under the sway of the Dorians. However, unlike Argos and Laconia where Dorians came to dominate political and social life, rulers of Messenia rather embraced the Achaean identity, triggering centuries long struggle between the tribes.
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[@HistorywithCy]

I've always been so fascinated with the origins of the Sparta-Messenian conflict and it's so hard to find stuff on specific areas of Greece during the dark ages - which is what made this video perfect for me! Thanks for putting this together!

[@WanaxTV]

Thanks Cy. Looking forward to your upcoming long-overdue video!

[@HistorywithCy]

@@WanaxTV should be out in the next week!

[@WanaxTV]

@@HistorywithCy Congrats on the check mark! I just noticed 👌🏻

[@alexanderguesthistorical7842]

SUPERB! I'd always wondered about the origins of the Messenians. We hear a lot about Sparta and how they declared war on the Messenians each year, by custom, even though Messenia had already been conquered by them, and it's inhabitants been enslaved. However, who were the Messenians and why did the Spartans treat them this way (uniquely), This video goes a long way in explaining this for me. Thank you!

[@WanaxTV]

Thanks. Slowly building up towards the Messenian wars!

[@billy-bo_]

Τιμή Και Δόξα Στην (Αρχαία) Ελλάδα!!!!!!! ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@spacebunny4335]

Great video I’ve never looked into Messenian history that much quite fascinating how they ended up assimilating into Achaean culture. It feels a bit like what happened to the Franks and Visigoths where both assimilated into the local cultures of the countries they invaded.

[@WanaxTV]

True. Also served as a build up for the first Messenian war.

[@PoolD3ad007]

As an Achaean , i have to say that in nowadays Sparta it's a pity that is so small city , in contrast to my city: Patra is the biggest city of all Peloponnese region 😜, in addition, modern Greek Spartans are many of them fascists or supports other right parties and many years ago until now have elected capitalistic and fascistic parties ,damn it i hate fascist guys 👎 but here in my city we have elected many times socialistic and no right wing parties in high percentage , because we have many universities here and People also more open-minded than Sparta's closed society !!😜

[@Krasokanatas]

Congratulations! Amazing channel!

[@user-zadeu2makarites]

Great video!

[@WanaxTV]

Thanks!

[@odysseus5607]

Amazing video! It is nice to see an overview of Messenia, its politics and its towns after Pylos ceased to exist!

[@WanaxTV]

Thanks Odysseus! Many people don't realize that the city of Messene didn't really exist under much later.

[@ΉρινναΉριννα]

Πολύ ωραίο video. Συγχαρητήρια

[@kingafar816]

I’m more sympathetic to the Achaean cause because they were the descendants of the Mycenaean age heroes those who were found as companions to Jason and the Argonauts and those in the epic of the Iliad and of the Seven Against Thebes. Dorians were seen as barbarian savages from the northern parts of Greece

[@WanaxTV]

Agreed. Always been fascinated with the Achaeans. As for the Dorians, I wouldn’t say that they were necessarily looked upon as barbarians. They also had Achaean heritage themselves and claimed descent from the Achaean heroes, pretty much the same as everyone else.

[@ezzovonachalm9815]

King Afar The Dorian invasors where the firsth indo-europeans to invade Greece.

[@Liakos953]

Hi great video! Could you make one about Arcadia as well. It’s also one of the regions which didn’t come under Dorian control

[@Dourios_96]

That map is 🔥🔥🔥

[@WanaxTV]

Thanks! It took forever to design it. Done everything myself! 💪🏻

[@alikidemetriou1854]

Amazing video, rather helpful for my research!!! A note though: it's Aristodemus not Aristomachus the father of the twin princes according to Pausanias.

[@sevoo1579]

awesome

[@WanaxTV]

Thanks Sevoo

[@jimmypellas5937]

These Greeks were as divided then as they are now... Finding more in their differences than in their common language, customs beliefs and history .....

[@Veriox22]

Lovely video. Even as a greek i didnt know that much

[@WanaxTV]

Thanks Veriox!

[@ancientsitesgirl]

great job😍

[@Rithymna]

One more great video on a topic not covered much

[@WanaxTV]

It was long in the plans!

[@ecurewitz]

So that explains why Sparta was so eager to conquer Messenia and make them into Helots

[@WanaxTV]

There were also a couple more incidents between Messenia and Sparta that we will cover as well! But yes, it ultimately came down to fundamental differences between the states and also Spartan strategy to become a major power.

[@knowstitches7958]

Man this is a false,there was no Greek dark ages just another lie to promote the Greek miracle fascad

[@bobby89bobbyAb]

Also consider the idea that Dorians were an underclass or slaves in Mycenean times. The way I think about it now, the Heracledae rallied dorians from the north and after a victory or two they got support and roused the local Dorians who lived under the Achaeans and overturned the social structure. Then the Spartans thought justified to enslave the former masters during the Archaic.

[@InAeternumRomaMater]

Should do videos more about the Thracians, they are getting very little notice

[@linobenetti6578]

spartans were true locusts there was a civilisation in place before these brutes settled in laconia greetings to the world from kyparissia messinia

[@perikleshistory]

Really sad what the spartans did to them

[@WanaxTV]

That's coming soon as well! Possibly this year.

[@cal2127]

do you think the periokoi were achean spartans who survived the dorian occupation?

[@ΒασιληςΑσβεστας]

We want Elis next

[@MattieK09]

Great stuff but you add sources

[@TheRealTomahawk]

Do you know of anyone today who is the descendants of Heracles?

[@mercianthane2503]

I'll be honest, the whole story of usurpation and the lawful ruler fleeing and then coming back to reclaim his throne, it is highly similar to the story of Agamemnon. So, I wonder, how much of the early story of Messenia should be regarded as myth or actual history?

[@billy-bo_]

😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮

[@Ivo.Outdoor]

Thank you for using BCE

[@ezzovonachalm9815]

The cybernetic intelligent transcriptor should urgently study the correct english pronuntiation of achaian and dorian names. King Broccoli ( an italian dish) would agree with meeee!!

[@beepboop204]

:D :D :D :D :D :D

[@WanaxTV]

Beep and his unique comments. 😆

[@sgonzo5572]

Messenians were pelasgians who were enslaved by Hellenes / dorians. Pelasgians were the originators of Mycenae. Myecenae wasn't a Hellenic civilization. It was conquered by the hellenes after the flood of deucalion and then you start seeing linear B tablets which indeed is hellenic. In athens the hellenes hellenized athens. And the athenians became extremely mixed.

[@wankawanka3053]

Cool story bro but Mycenaeans spoke greeks and that's a fact since we have translated the lineal b tablets 😅

[@sgonzo5572]

@@wankawanka3053 wrong. At the beginning of mycenae they was no greek script. It was pelasgic script. And it was introduced when pelasgians already ruled. Diodorus siculus: 67 1 This, then, is the account of Dionysius: Among the Greeks Linus was the first to discover the different rhythms and song, and when Cadmus brought from Phoenicia the letters, as they are called, Linus was again the first to transfer them into the Greek language, to give a name to each character, and to fix its shape. Now the letters, as a group, are called “Phoenician” because they were brought to the Greeks from the Phoenicians, but as single letters the Pelasgians were the first to make use of the transferred characters and so they were called “Pelasgic.”

[@oskareriksson2202]

The sub mycenaean resistance against the dorians...

[@WanaxTV]

💯

[@oskareriksson2202]

@@WanaxTV go wanax, you and the lawaketa Will guide Is in this obscure Valley to fight for our Freedom! Trough the times of the palaces and the burocrats are over since the raids destroyed all and killed an entire class of peoples a post mycenaean society Survive here in the Mountain and in arcadia and in cyprus where i Heard some of us migrated... So take the command sceptre, up to your chariots and guide use against the barbarian that devastated our lsnds! The king of Messenia successor of Nestor,!

[@oskareriksson2202]

@@WanaxTV the Village Is ready to follow you even to the Underworld.