MGS3 #2-3: Ocelot's Gun (Radio)

[@DinsRune]

"He's the enemy! Why are you giving him advice?" "Professionals have _standards."_

[@Zinc_Nitrogen]

At least he was the real CIA spy and not the red team spy.

[@Vahn-xc1gc]

Ocelot is American's spy 🕵🏻during that time. His not Russian.

[@constipatedparker5879]

@@Vahn-xc1gc He's a triple spy. He's CIA, GRU & the Patriots.

[@Sleygar]

@@constipatedparker5879 The Patriots aren't a thing yet in this game.

[@M4A1BestGirl]

@@Vahn-xc1gc He's both actually. His father, presumably dead, is Russian. And his mother (most likely The Boss) was American. Check the Wiki.

[@vonschuhart]

Snake was simply acting as the boss said "there is no such thing as a definite friend or enemy" Snake understood this to some degree, even if he did not catch the full meaning of the boss' words. But it still motivated him to instruct Ocelot, who is young, talented, and shares an inherent connection with snake in that they are both "sons" of the boss

[@chrisahearn789]

Both literally and symbolically

[@Glassandcandy]

@@chrisahearn789 how literally? Snake isn’t the boss’ son. She’s a maternal figure but not his actual mother. That be really weird if she was considering they were lovers (j mean, it’s STILL weird but it would be WAY weirder)

[@Bori.1776]

@@Glassandcandy he meant for ocelot my guy.

[@Glassandcandy]

@@Bori.1776 as far as I can tell, “both” means both snake AND ocelot. You don’t use “both” to describe a singular subject, it doesn’t work that way lol

[@Bori.1776]

@@Glassandcandy Some people have bad grammar, doesn’t mean you can’t intuit what they mean. I mean, I could be wrong however and he could be just a dumbass.

[@Rahheemme]

Damn, Snake knows a hell of a lot about guns. To be expected, of course, but still

[@prot07ype87]

>Clip

[@slyseal2091]

@@prot07ype87 As they say, before you're allowed to go freeform and break the rules, you have to master your art. Snake definitely falls under that category.

[@entgeltfrei5706]

Magazine. Yes. You nailed it.

[@pedinhuh16]

@@prot07ype87 Translation error.

[@hand13932]

@@prot07ype87 fun fact: you can still tell what he's saying! This is an easter egg referencing the fact that the listening audience has ears, and the ability to conduct rational thought!

[@muhammadrizkisatria]

turns out. his advice is useful. ocelot teach to one of diamond dogs member

[@joshuarobinson8529]

And so the cycle of Pretty Good continued.

[@koreancowboy42]

"Forget everything Hollywood has taught you"

[@Farron_01]

Engraving......Gives you no tactical advantage whatsoever

[@trevermarco9206]

Yeah I membah

[@AxisChurchDevotee]

@@koreancowboy42 Said the one walking in cowboy boots.

[@whiteraven1992]

"You're pretty good..."

[@masterseal0418]

"Pretty... Good."

[@savaralyn0951]

Apparently according to Kojima there was some kind of 'love at first sight' energy between them when they first met, though I guess 'love' would be a bit of a strong term overall, more fitting to at least just say they were interested in each other.

[@6Kubik]

Ocelot was super horny for snake

[@glenngriffon8032]

It's guy love.

[@shuboy05]

I definitely got a "DID WE JUST BECOME BEST FRIENDS?" vibe between those two by the time the game ended.

[@sonozaki0000]

This is correct. According to a compilation of Kojima's commentary DVDs and books (done by Muni Shinobu back in the day, google his name and it should come up), his refers to their feeling since their first meeting as a "pure love". The Japanese concept of "pure love" is intentionally vague and not necessarily parallel to traditional western love (i.e. platonic vs romantic). Although Snake is more complicated, I think from Ocelot's end it is more romantic, considering the way he relates himself to Quiet's behavior in MGS5 (and she was in romantic love). In fact much of Quiet's arc directly parallels Ocelot, and it's probably intentionally that he's written to always be the one who supports her.

[@johnnyaverage9694]

Stryder this makes a ton of sense and something I need to think about when i play through the series again

[@kalebsithnerd119]

I feel like something good is going to come out of me teaching that GRU commander about his revolver technique and I don't know why.

[@M4A1BestGirl]

At least until he kidnaps Armstech president Baker and gets his hand slashed off by Grey Fox.

[@Harutjun]

@@M4A1BestGirl lol

[@Rodgerwilco91]

Because Ocelot wanted Big Boss to believe that. Lol

[@nootaboot7042]

after seeing her talk about him being "the enemy" i just now realized that i never thought of anyone in mgs3 as an enemy

[@PliskinYT]

Not even volgin?

[@nootaboot7042]

@@PliskinYT i mean volgin is the only downright villain in mgs

[@zeus28frenzy]

@@nootaboot7042 I mean. Skull face?

[@Quickdrawingartist]

Same.

[@M4A1BestGirl]

@@PliskinYT Snake explains to Meryl what kind of psychology it requires to be a soldier. He explained to her that to kill someone out of spite is difficult. To kill them because you hate them is easy. Which is why I have no qualms about doing it to Volgin, but The Boss is a different story. I have a love-hate relationship with her. What she did was reckless and endangered innocent lives, but I respect her skills as a combatant and mixed martial artist. Volgin only wants to see the world burn and he's extremely paranoid, so much so that he sees his own soldiers as expendable. Volgin is absolutely twisted, whereas The Boss is a human being like the rest of us. I'm not even sure what Volgin is since he can shoot lighting and fire from his fingertips like some kind of Sith Lord.

[@RaceTheAce77]

"BOSS!! THIS IS THE ENEMY!! AND HE'S HERE SHOOTING HIS WEAPON INCORRECTLY ON HIS KNEES!!"

[@thejoebotnik]

He'll learn how to shoot his gun correctly and that'll be the end of it.

[@connoroleary9261]

True Love

[@RampantFury925]

Eww.

[@averyplaysguitar]

@@RampantFury925 it's true

[@TCMk23]

I don't know how many times I played this game. I don't know how many years since I last played. I don't know how many countless hours I've put in. I have never heard this conversation before, and it makes me happy that MGS 3 is still giving to me

[@sunshadehatgamer9142]

I know this is a late reply and you have already probably found the answer by now but in most of the mgs games there are "hidden" codec calls that you have to make a specific times usually right after or during an event to get some feedback on it. Some even require you to perform certain actions or make certain goofs.

[@PliskinYT]

Actually this is a mistranslation, the actual technique he was referring to was that he would swap his magazine with one round left in the chamber so he doesn't have to cock the slide back before he shoots, but out of instinct he still cocked the slide jamming the round in the release. (Or maybe purposely if he was under orders during the Virtuous mission to let Snake live)

[@reonthornton685]

In most semi automatic pistols, he'd caused a double feed by failure to eject by not quite pulling the slide all of the way. I say most, because I'm not familiar enough with the Makarov pistol to know if it is a bad idea in general.

[@yeastofthoughtsmind9623]

Ocelot actually tries to employ both techniques, which causes his failure. His Makarov holds 8+1, and he ejects the first round during his draw (this is an Israeli technique in which you always rack the gun upon drawing and reloading regardless of a round being chambered. The same technique referred to in the video). Ocelot then fires 7 shots, leaving 1 in the chamber. It is at this point Ocelot makes his critical mistake. He attempts the technique you referred to, but as you say, he instinctually (or intentionally) tried to chamber the 1st round by hand, but this time he blocked the chambered round's ejection.

[@dungeonwallmeat2113]

Guns 100

[@M4A1BestGirl]

Except Snake's pistol, the MK23, (which is a prototype) has been modified to fire tranquilizer bullets. Because of this he has to manually pull back the slide before he can fire again.

[@Axl4325]

@@M4A1BestGirl They`re talking about Ocelot my man

[@gavinlamp5426]

"He's the enemy! Why are you giving him advice?!" *Fast forward to the year 2005* "And don't even think about using auto fire, or I'll know!"

[@roofkorean6948]

"Snake, are you saying that Ocelot was armed with an M1-Garand or a C96 Mauser?" "Huh, why do you think that?" "Because you said 'clip' instead of magazine so I just assumed you meant he had an actual clip-fed firearm." "No, I just meant-" "Doesn't matter what you meant, Snake. It's what you said and it's wrong." "Mmmm." "You see, Snake, with the invention of magazines, soldiers no longer have to worry about dealing with those annoying clips anymore. A huge convenience. Six years ago in 1958 the US Army replaced the clip-fed M1-Garand with the new magazine-fed, or mag-fed, M14. There's even talk of the US Marine Corps using it as soon as next year as well. It's the way of the future, Snake. You might as well call them what they really are." "But you knew what I meant though. Plus in Hollywood movies they call them 'clips' so it just feels natural and satisfying to say." "Apples and oranges, Snake. Two totally different things. If someone offers you an apple and asks if you'd like an orange, you'd know what the meant. But they'd still be wrong. If saying magazine feels awkward then just call it mag for short." "Fine, I'll think about it." "I mean really, Snake. It's very basic stuff. I would've thought someone with your knowledge would've known the difference." "...Ok I'm getting back to the mission now."

[@Littlejonjontheking]

Why does your profile picture look like George Floyd as if he had vitiligo?

[@AFScorp]

And he becomes an ally

[@richtersiegfried61]

And help mentored Ahab in place of him

[@holidaytrout5174]

He is an ally. He's Adam.

[@SlayerSeraph]

Avoid the RE-COIIIILEEEE.

[@lukabrasi001]

RECOIUUGHLL

[@mushuwu]

Ocelot picking up on revolvers is the OG canon event

[@ToffeePeanuts]

>clip

[@johnfrancis89]

I think this is the difference between solid and big boss. Big boss loves soldiers, and war, and fighting. He thinks it's all an art, an end in to itself. Snake, tho he loves the fight, has no love for the war itself or those on the battlefield. He hates it, and he hates most of all that he loves the fight and the killing. He'd never do what big boss did with ocelot, he'd have just killed him on the spot the way he did sniper wolf. I think that's what liquid and psycho mantis are talking about when they call him "worse" than them. he knows it's wrong, but still enjoys it. They can't comprehend both enjoying the fight and hating war.

[@Cthulhu_Awaken]

That's why Ocelot in return idolised Big Boss.

[@ShootingStarNeo]

Snake is a good boyfriend. Or surrogate big brother. Pick one.

[@HUNKThe4thSurvivor]

surrogate big brother lol

[@kitsinthewebs222]

BROTHAS!!!!

[@currentlyunderconstruction1128]

Whatever it is, he’s pretty good.

[@6Kubik]

boyfriend :D

[@PapagenoDispo]

boyfriend

[@demonking86420]

little did he know that GRU kid was one of the if not the biggest ally BB has against Zero's faction of the Patriots to the point where he'd literally brainwash himself to being one of Big Boss' clone sons(Liquid Ocelot)

[@smithwesson1896]

He's pretty good

[@tsnophaljakarax9963]

I feel like Snake is channelling The Boss. I'm guessing The Boss corrected him a few times during training like this to help Snake get better, and Snake saw that Ocelot was a young and careless individual, but had talent, and some of what he learnt from Boss rubbed off on him.

[@ninjadragonblade]

As an automatic and revolver pistol user myself i found this codec call very useful. Iv never heard it before but i will take onboard what snake was saying at my next match

[@ravenovatechnologies6554]

Let me know how that goes!

[@joshuar3632]

Field test it for yourself first😂

[@huevos7826]

knowing the same stuff, i would do the exact same in his position lmao

[@Rodgerwilco91]

The funny thing is that Big Boss wasn’t actually teaching ocelot anything. Ocelot orchestrated the entire interaction to feign incompetence and make Big Boss feel as though he’s ocelot’s superior. Big Boss even reveals this himself when Paramedic asks why he’s helping the enemy but he can’t come up with a reason. It’s because Ocelot actually subliminally influenced him.

[@saiyanwarrior3895]

now understand what eva said to solid snake about ocelot respecthing big boss

[@Terraqueo22]

So in short .. Semi-automatic and automátic weapons needs recoil to chamber effectively the next round. Double action, single action, Lever action, pump action operated weapons you must avoid recoil to not strain your wrists, elbows and arm during shooting?

[@erikbukovac5944]

only recoil operated firearms need the recoil. many guns are gas operated and they dont need that recoil. that "avoiding" recoil is probably only useful for strong revolvers where it can hurt after shooting a lot, but for rifles or shotguns its not necessary

[@Terraqueo22]

@@erikbukovac5944 I see.. So avoiding recoil on gas operated pistols is a bad idea...

[@erikbukovac5944]

@@Terraqueo22 only on recoil operated is avoiding bad. with gas operated guns you can avoid recoil and they will work fine

[@luisphelipecarvalho5990]

"SNAKE STOP OF HELP THE ENEMY GIVING ADVICES FOR GOD SAKE! "

[@TheFloodFourm]

Could someone please explain to me how to trigger this one? I tried in on my past two playthroughs and never got it.

[@CookieThug]

yirr purdy good

[@JThom529]

Ha if it wasn’t for Big Boss, Ocelot might’ve died young

[@MilkT0ast]

So was it because he didn't rack the slide enough? Or was his hand blocking the eject port?

[@hatad321]

His hand was in the way, if you slow it down you can see he racks the slide with his hand covering it, ends up with a double feed.

[@NewTypeDilemma01]

Ocelot was using a Makarov, though, wasn't he? Isn't that pistol blowback operated as opposed to recoil-operated? Is it actually the same problem since "blowback operation" can be considered a simplified form of gas-operation?

[@derpyherpy3773]

So many question marks, definitely a Metal Gear Solid comment.

[@exploitativity]

Very late answer, but both recoil and blowback-operated weapons operate on recoil. Gas systems strictly involve porting gas off to a piston or tube before the bullet leaves the barrel. The difference between recoil and blowback is recoil systems have a locking system to maintain seal between the bolt/slide and the barrel until it unlocks. Simple blowback, as it's often known, relies solely on the weight of the slide to keep this seal in place for long enough that the barrel loses sufficient pressure, and is more useful for less powerful calibers, such as the 9x18mm round the Makarov uses. At about 9x19 and up, a recoil system is advised, otherwise your slide has to be very heavy to maintain that seal(see Hi-Point pistols).

[@jb111082]

@@exploitativity Couldn't have said it better. You, my friend, know your weapon systems.

[@nimbly1693]

Other than calling a magazine a clip in typical Hollywood fashion, I like how he explains limp wrist malfunctions.

[@smashkiller64]

I don’t think it’s Hollywood fashioned. It’s more attention to detail! This game takes place in the 60’s. I see and know a lot of veterans from the 60’s and back who use magazine and clip interchangeably. From what I observe, they mainly do it with all things like that unconsciously to keep the conversation flowing smoothly, quickly, and naturally. Definitely needed to present information to superiors without wasting time. Quite fitting considering the high-level of detail that Hideo Kojima puts in all of his games!

[@punk5585]

Nah it was right for the time period, but really what is the diff

[@sopmodii1505]

Get over your weapon elitism and let people call magazines whatever they want to call it, calling it a "Clip" gets the point across and everyone understands what he means by it. This is like getting mad at people who speak different accents or use different words because of culture. Very dumb.

[@nimbly1693]

@@sopmodii1505 Calling gun parts by their correct name in context of what they were designed to do isn't "weapon elitism". It is important to technically minded people. Also I am not "mad" about it at all. I am a total MGS fan. Using terms like gun, cannon, and Howitzer (or magazine and clip), interchangeably not only leads to confusion, but shows a level of ignorance to basic weapon function and design. It isn't like an accent thing or someone misreading, like someone calling nuclear weapons "nucular", or an American pronouncing Walther or Korth the way Americans do.... pronouncing the H. In a mechanic shop, I wouldn't trust a mechanic who pointed to my alternator and told me I needed a new power steering pump. And I wouldn't trust a gunsmith if he told me my pistol was probably malfunctioning because of the "clip". It isn't a clip, just like your Play-thing-3 isn't a Nintendo-box-360.

[@punk5585]

@@nimbly1693 yeah but at the same time, that's what they called that shit in the 60s

[@QueerWebs]

BECAUSE SNAKE HAS A CRUSH ON OCELOT

[@kalebsithnerd119]

No

[@kalebsithnerd119]

@TheSoundPainter Nooooooo 😊

[@Mr33500]

This is why "fanships" are annoying. A friendship can't just be a friendship.

[@sonozaki0000]

@@Mr33500 C'mon. I mean from Snake's end there's probably nothing there, but MGS3 repeatedly makes jokes about Ocelot being "infatuated" or "falling" for Snake, and EVA once parallels Snake's obliviousness to it with his obliviousness about Volgin and Raikov. In MGS5, Ocelot outright states that Quiet is "in love with the legend" and that he was that way once too -- and she was romantically in love with Venom. She respected him as a soldier and leader and fell in love with him because of it -- so isn't it easy to understand how Ocelot did the same? You can get a trophy in Peace Walker named after Ocelot's catchphrase for shooting a male soldier in the ass, and in MGS4 for letting him kiss Snake during the MGS3/Ocelot vs Naked Snake phase of the final boss (and the trophy image is the Japanese kanji for "love"). You can feel whatever you want about it, but it's pretty clear what Kojima was intending. He likely only refrained from making Ocelot's feelings as explicit as he wanted because of fans who get fussy over homosexual content. People barely kept from losing their lids over Vamp and Volgin being bisexual, and they only accepted that because as villains they're supposed to be weird and disliked (and Raikov because he was a joke character).

[@antisatanist5017]

Emm, what's wrong with paramedic's picture. Ihave absolutely another picture in game. Is it only on ps2.

[@ES21007]

Mr Solidus I think you can change pictures

[@Kelsixxx]

Remastered

[@xshadow105]

Snake might know that Ocelot will be his friend in mgs5.

[@chrisahearn789]

Kinda cool considering the diamond dogs would go on to do the same thing ocelot does 20 years later

[@ManillaHeep]

Never knew about this codec convo. I rarely call Para-Medic since she mainly talks about animals and injuries only but this is neat.

[@R.B_]

Dude some of the convos with paramedic are hilarious! Like finding out about snake's fear of vampires! I highly recommend calling her after each new item/food/injury/etc. because that shit is gold!

[@ManillaHeep]

@@R.B_ yeah on another playthrough where I had to get Markhor rank I ended up hearing most of her extra dialogue. She's still no Mei Ling!

[@vanityparadiseofficial]

@Jonathan so what? Para-Medic was awesome in her own way.

[@Watchlist_king]

“CLIP”!? HE SAID “CLIP”!? BOSS, NO!

[@TheIr0nMike]

Been there :/

[@saiyanwarrior3895]

so was big boss his idare that create revoler oclot

[@dalaxdercrisper957]

Thanks to Big Boss, Ocelot can help it to end the war

[@Lajos_Kelemen]

Wouldn't it be unnecessary to always chamber a new round when reloading a pistol? In most if not all cases the slide stays in the back when you empty the gun, a definite sign that you need a dry reload.

[@hatad321]

It's a bit of a mistranslation. The actual technique is to rack the slide no matter what, one lost round is better than having nothing chambered. For some reason against Snake he racks the slide, but then tries to put the bullet back in, so he basically double feeds.

[@Lajos_Kelemen]

@@hatad321 So wait, Ocelot racks the slide back, tries to put the ejected round back in, but ends up jamming the round instead?

[@hatad321]

@@Lajos_Kelemen YA know what? I must've misremembered ha ha. Watching it back in slow motion it looks like he racks from the top of the gun, and since it had a round In chamber he blocked it from ejecting with his hand.

[@Lajos_Kelemen]

@@hatad321 Ah I see. So when the round was about to be ejected, he blocked it with his hand as we racked the slide back, so it stuck midway.

[@hatad321]

@@Lajos_Kelemen Yeah, so trying to do the Israeli load but improper hand placement. It's possible he assumed it was empty, it's shown he has trouble keeping track when he empties the colt revolver and has no clue.

[@Bribe_Guntails]

Out the gate Snake made the mistake of calling a magazine a _clip_ but he got everything else about right

[@J_Braz_]

This and Re4 are tied for my favorite games of all time. The ps2 versions. Although the PS3 remaster of mgs3 looks better and is in 16:9 instead of 4:3 picture ratio. I must have played the ps2 over 1k hours. Probably more than that.

[@quantizedanson]

Sadly the PS2 version of RE4 had downgraded models, texture, visual effects and shadows compared to the Gamecube original, which also plagued the initial PC port way back. But thankfully the Wii version has restored Gamecube assets while having the PS2 expanded contents !

[@CarlVercetti]

"he is the enemy and he's here on his knees!" "Wtf paramedic?" "Sorry, too soon"

[@Neagnosis]

Snake really do be knowing bout dem clips doe, finna stock up on shotgun bullets fo sho

[@MrMoneyclips]

Dude dun fucked up lol

[@TabbzManiaGaming]

Big boss knew ocelot was the bosses son as she mentored snake .. snake wanted to mentor ocelot his future best friend

[@thetwocrazyboys12]

lol

[@M4A1BestGirl]

The whole reason he explained it was because he knows something Para Medic doesn't. Spoiler alert: Ocelot is a double agent.

[@Greed70]

I don't doubt you, I may have missed some hints and clues. Can you please provide some insight in how Snake knew Ocelot was the double agent.

[@M4A1BestGirl]

@@Greed70 There isn't really. He just knows based on his accent and probably his codename that he isn't Russian

[@peeps000]

CLIP!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!? SNNAAAAAAAAAAKKEEEEEEE

[@Keimotorider]

it's the 60s. Clip was more common back then

[@peeps000]

@@Keimotorider it was still wrong

[@PliskinYT]

@@peeps000 no? It's historically accurate

[@peeps000]

@@PliskinYT no it isn't, they mean different things. A magazine has a feeding mechanism and a clip just feeds a magazine

[@sopmodii1505]

Look, shut the fuck up.