Miami Dice: Legacy of Dragonholt

[@marks6928]

I’ve been playing RPG’s (D&D, Shadowrun, Pathfinder, World of Darkness, Call of Cthulhu) for 20 years, and I think this is a great gateway RPG. I’ve always wanted to play a tabletop RPG with my wife, but she’s shy and doesn’t like the idea of joining the gaming group where I DM. It would be odd playing a game together where it was just her playing solo and me as the DM. This game lets us experience a little of that RPG feeling together, with no need for a DM. For that reason alone, I think it’s great. A very good bridge between RPG and boardgame, I think.

[@eirikuthus]

I had one of my favorite gaming experiences with this game. My friend and I played through it all. I read all of it, my friend was just making choices (that fitted her character). We really got into the game, because at one point my friend got really sad after making a bad choice in the game. Tears and all. It was both sad and really good storywise. I really hope we'll get a Star Wars game in this system.

[@rkcpek]

I think that the "Fabled Lands" series as a whole should be the general road map for this type of game. Everything they mentioned, code words, check marks and character stats ( as code word "skills") sums it up. Having played a lot of solo board games and game books, the tactile aspect of health tokens, index cards with items n stats on them, large printed out maps and pictorial pleasing character sheets all give additional "flavor" in presentation that's a must have. Creating encounters that requires multiple characters to defeat it are a must into turning this into a party game. In the end the fault is the single perspective narrative. You can never split the party. Not even to split actions up so you can use them as a group. Only mystery, fog of war and group encounters can do it justice.

[@halinar1]

Funny how this is now on Sam's top 10 FF game after hearing his comments here

[@DanielDavissynthman]

A traditional fantasy setting does not mean it's generic - it's just traditional, or uses the established conventions of the genre. No reason to reinvent the wheel every time you want to use a fantasy setting. We just starting playing through this, and we are loving it. I'm a huge fan of game books, and I like how this works as a multi-player game book. It's very well written, and a lot of fun. We laughed a whole heck of a lot, and had a great time experiencing the world and characters.

[@DanielDavissynthman]

Yes, you could buy a whole series of game books for the same price, and just pass them around to read. But the price of Dragonholt doesn't bother me. We're playing with 4 people, and we're going to get a handful of sessions out of it. At $50, that's cheap entertainment for for people. I also LOVE the fact there is zero set up and take down time.

[@KurtDepner]

After I played through it with friends and thoroughly enjoying it, I read the entire intro session of Legacy to a novice group at a pop culture conference and had a blast. Definitely thumbs up.

[@visschers16]

this game needs a narrator app so the reading by players part can get skiped. only how do we get Eric Summoner on-board for this

[@jubez1875]

I think when I bought Pathfinder ACG, I was expecting THIS type of game, but with the cards of PF:ACG. PF:ACG just ended up being a puzzle game with character stats and very little story. I think there's a BIG opportunity to take the best from both games and make a really cool story-based, no-DM, experience.

[@tablesaltgames]

Out of all the games FFG could have design an app for this game. This would be great to play on an iPad when traveling.

[@timgrossman8346]

The thing with this game is people who aren't not familiar with role playing will play it and make their own choices instead of making a choice based on your characters traits and ideals.

[@arcubal]

It's good to see so many viewpoints and angles to this game - which in my opinion means that it's not just a rehash of game mechanics and has people talking. Sure, it's a bit of RPG/game, a lot of CYOA/story and some personal input. I think it falls in the category 'Single Story Event' like Pandemic Legacy, T.I.M.E. Stories, Descent and Mansions of Madness (the last two which are Fantasy Flight games as well, so perhaps that's just their thing?)

[@TheFatalT]

Have enjoyed playing this with my wife and my kids. I’d say it makes for a great family or solo game.

[@kallegrafstrom5865]

If you like this game, you should really get hold of Joe Dever’s Lone Wolf gamebook series, because this game has similar mechanism such has leveling up your character with new skills, on top of that you also use a d10 system for solving fighting. The thing that separates the Lone Wolf gamebooks from Legacy of Dragonholt is that they are pure solitaire other than that they are very similar. /Kalle

[@dreadknot69]

Kalle Grafström Destiny Quest books are an excellent choice here too. Similar reasons, except it's d6 instead. Price is major factor as well as the books are just simply much cheaper

[@markleistman2955]

I loved The Lone Wolf books, to bad they are not going to do the last 8 books;(

[@phillosmaster393]

I have a bunch of Lone Wolf books on my shelf from when I was a kid. They were super fun to play. This product made me want to revisit those books again.

[@dreadknot69]

Just so people know, Destiny Quest is a modern series of CYOA Fantasy books. Just as good but longer than the older books that we use to read as kids. I feel I should point it out because most people think they don't make CYOA books anymore.

[@kallegrafstrom5865]

Search for project aon, they have 28 Lone Wolf gamebooks online for free and project aon is done with Joe Dever’s blessing so this is not an illegal project. /Kalle

[@frankc.531]

The lack of dice is what I like about it. I'm not a fan of pure RPGs due to its reliance on pure chance. This fixes that. Also, the writing is simply tremendous. Do NOT discount this game's writing. If you like story, and more importantly, if you like well written and believable characters - check this out!

[@MJGOLDHEART]

This game is a fab solo game. Like reading and like fantasy win win. Also who needs pictures you have your imagination and very descriptive writing. Well worth it in my opinion and money well spent.

[@theMCGuiREreview]

Good talk through on this one guys, I liked the different opinions here. Personally, I like the game but I have to agree - only solo. Its a great solo experience but I would leave it at that. Shorter scripts, more choices, possibly some dice rolls on decisions, and more art would have made this a much more enjoyable multi-player experience.

[@danddjacko]

I would love to see Tom, Sam and Zee play The Extraordinary Adventures of Baron Munchausen. I know it's not really your bag, but I do think that it would be a riot! ;)

[@chadjacobson2679]

Maybe Eric Summerer needs to be reading this to you.

[@lloydlow727]

This is a game that would likely be made into an interactive PDF file or an app for mobile devices very soon...

[@Psikerlord]

Thanks guys, yeah I wish that had dice, would have been perfect (like the old Fighting Fantasy adventure books).

[@Raphaelus13]

The discussion was interesting.

[@DarthEd77]

I think the allure and niche of this game that Tom/Sam/Zee are missing here is that it is a gateway RPG. If you've never played an RPG before (and believe me I've been there), the biggest barrier to entry to RPGs is finding a DM/GM to run the game. This solves that problem very well, I think.

[@matthewmanghi5765]

DarthEd7 I’m not so sure about that. I’d say the appeal is more for people who think choose your own adventure books are cool and wanted that on a grander scale. RPGs are way more freeform than this and in my experience are a very different type of thing.

[@ThomasGiles]

Still... at £55 it seems a little insane. I wish there was a way to just buy the first quest to get started and see if you want to shell out for the others.

[@rkcpek]

I suggest the "Fabled Lands" game book series. Scale up combat per # of players and get a similar experience.

[@leecorby5662]

imo 3.5 on a scale of -6 to +6 mismatched the 20 minutes of negative. woud be great to hear some more of the positives if its a game worth playing:-)

[@pawpawno1]

I liked the game more than I thought I would. I'm also not much into fantasy and would love to is a science fiction (Star Wars!) version of this.

[@bensecaur1690]

Imagine if you read/played some of the behind the scenes parts that went along with the movies? You could be a team of bothans trying to get the second Death Star plans. (Spoiler: many of you will die)

[@chicken0death]

It sounds like the Lone Wolf series with some added things to immerse you. Sounds like it would be better solo.

[@Stinow]

Good video guys. But the screen is very much distracting. Stick with one image, like using it as a window, but not this way :D

[@dreadknot69]

I have this game and it's been sitting in shrink. I've been holding off waiting to see if this is actually something I could play with my family. From this review and from what else I've read, I don't think so. I was really looking forward to a multiplayer CYOA gamebook. Emphasis on the multiplayer. If I want to play a good solo gamebook that has meaningful decisions, a good length, equipment, skills, levels and dice, I'll play Destiny Quest. For a quarter of the cost of this.

[@astrosteve]

I was, honestly, hoping this would be a less expensive game similar to Gloomhaven, as I can't justify spending $140 on a board game. It's definitely not like Gloomhaven but it's still very interesting to me as I adored CYOA books as a kid, especially the fantasy based ones. I'd like this for single player, I think, but wouldn't be real keen on playing it with other people. It's definitely on my list of games now.

[@philheaton1619]

Let me see, this is the first game using the oracle system, which means there will be more. Is that like the Dead of Winter Crossroads system, the first game of many????

[@boardgamesocialnetwork5621]

59.95 msrp seems pretty expensive for what you get. (Components and playtime) Would definitely have to be a sale price or CSI purchase.

[@Arjay82]

Interesting concept. But I really wish there were games like this in a contemporary setting. I know games like this are "nerdy" by their very nature, but aren't there enough generic fantasy/sci-fi games?

[@markleistman2955]

I enjoy this game.

[@atcjohn75]

I enjoy this game, but as someone who also plays rpgs, this is not even close to a duplicate.

[@shawnfleury1295]

While that may be true, this could easily be used as a gateway style game to get people into RPGs once they're introduced to how fun a story-telling game can be.

[@allluckyseven]

I wonder if FFG will come up with a Star Wars themed version of this game... Yeah, they probably will.

[@rushpatel1350]

I like the narrative aspects but miss the dice rolling and miniatures. I wish I was able to use my Descent stuff along with this game. I just want the ability to add more crunch.

[@JoaLoft]

Tales of the Arabian Nights is leaving Tom's collection?! My friends love that game, whenever I bring it, we have a blast! Okay. Where's the real Tom Vasel?

[@BloodyCactus]

started this with my wife and two kids... and in over two weeks nobody has asked to continue it... which for me is kinda telling. everyone thought it was boring with no player agency (obviously not my kids words lol). My kids are voracious readers, they found this boring.

[@JoelC724]

This should have been an App.

[@perceval6947]

God no

[@jeremiahkool1]

what's with the background TV? A little distracting...

[@phillosmaster393]

There are multiple endings. There are some bad choices you can make that have a persistent effect. I don't know how many there actually are, but I know for a fact there are at least a couple. I do think the game could use more art to alleviate the lengthy narration. I think the guys are on point with that comment. Also it is a bit pricey. I know it must have taken a lot of work to put the book together, but the MSRP on it does seem a bit high for what it is when you open the box. That said I like it and I hope sincerely that they release another game in this system in one of their other IPs. I don't particularly like Terrinoth and while I liked the story here I don't think this product really moved my needle on the Terrinoth setting. It's too generic. Any of the other FFG IPs would be amazing though. Please do Android, L5R or Arkham Horror next. I would preorder that in a heart beat.

[@blashryche]

Would this play well with younger kids 8+?

[@Wildboy789789]

blashryche , yes, because its co-op you can look at your kids cards and help them with the rules, there's nothing to hide from other players, I play it with my 70 year old mom

[@Wildboy789789]

David Phillips , ah good point I'm not sure if it would keep them interested

[@John-rv2qe]

No. This is NOT appropriate for kids.

[@DragonTank1400]

Would you say this game is a good gateway RPG?

[@phillosmaster393]

I would for someone who had never RPGed before and has no idea what to expect. You need no DM or any real setup prior to playing. Your character creation is interesting enough without being intimidating, and using a CYOA style menu for each choice would be easier for someone who has never roleplayed. That said this is wading pool compared to the ocean that is modern roleplaying games. Though if they prefer this experience there is a history of this type of product. They could look into things like Lone Wolf, Fighting Fantasy, Fabled Lands etc. Though those games are usually single player products. Dragonholt is interesting because it allows for a group to play it together.

[@John-rv2qe]

Absolutely not.

[@matthewmanghi5765]

Not even a little. This is a choose your own adventure, not an RPG. They are very different genres

[@ryusorata]

This game is definitely not for everybody and not for me.

[@Mark-OutWest]

Actually it's possible this game may be for no one.

[@digitalsublime]

It's called gamebook

[@hadlee73]

Cripes not only was Zee down on the game but he almost seemed put out that he was being made to even talk about it.

[@davidmaynor2855]

I might be interested if they launch a version of this for L5R. Maybe you can submit your results online and they tally it and it has story impact. But this generic fantasy world... meh....

[@DieNische]

Why should anybody play this game instead of Folklore: The Affliction?

[@plotarmor1171]

Going on a road trip and this will be played while in the car. Really looking forward to it

[@Mark-OutWest]

Guys seriously kill that monitor in the background if you are just going to run a screen saver chock full of unrelated images to the game. It is such a distraction. Take a look at what Man Vs Meeple does, and copy that. Thanks for the review. MvM made this game sound one way and here I hear the negative instead of just the standard gloss over I get there. This isn't for me. I'd rather read a good book then try to "play" a book.

[@bricelory9534]

To be frank I found the writing from the live plays to be cumbersome, and it felt amateurish - with too much modification and needless description. There were just too many long sentences. The dialog was far too wordy and unnatural. I really think it needed revision. Village scenes can be quite nice if they aren't bogged down with wordy and slightly clumsy narration.

[@freakstylebjdstudios8198]

I do have to agree. The way the characters were written also made me want to punch them. I was hoping for a choice to gag the gnome and put her in a cellar. Gomes are lively, yes. But her reactions were completely irrational. No one acts like that.

[@Aikuchi.]

I wish this game was sci-fi or Western or cold war or absolutely anything other than fantasy

[@Syncopator]

Padding with gobs of irrelevant details in order to bury the important details in red-herrings seems to me to be a pretty weak mechanism. Best to keep that to a minimum and just make it unclear *when* and *which* important detail will be needed. A couple of red herrings are ok, but if half the story is red herrings, then it's a boring slog.

[@A._J_.]

A game for ages 4-12.

[@thedicetower]

I'm 41, and I really enjoy it.

[@John-rv2qe]

No, not appropriate for kids.

[@Kindlesmith70]

Not 'unique'. There aren't many of this sort of game out there. Like any FFGame.... $$$ is an issue. Sounds like the game suffers from too much detail that isn't left up to the imagination. Doesn't make a good story if it is bloated with description that doesn't matter to the game focus nor story focus. 'Someone make a note of the color of the flowers, how many there are and the number of petals each has. Also take not of the building, how many stories it has, what it is made of, its dimensions, etc. Maybe there will be a puzzle involving this to make progress! If not, why the hell does this excessive description exist?' If these descriptions are important to paint the same image into everybody's mind, a picture would have been better.

[@SWolf0]

For shame dice tower, not knowing what gamebooks are. Revoke your gamer id's. ;) choose your own adventure books released in the Americas while Gamebooks (cyoa with stats) were in print in Europe for a couple years prior. Depending on your age, gamebooks and cyoas were the thing to read. 80s childhood saw gamebooks much like mobile game apps of today. There actually is zero new ideas with this game. This release is probably more for the niche but dedicated gamebook collecters and players.

[@RadeTcg]

This game would be so boring solo.... I agree it's a gateway rpg

[@kdhlkjhdlk]

Wow. Apparently all the appeal of RPGs is in rolling dice. I guess RPGs are stupid.

[@bobgabriels8456]

it is not. RPG's are NOT about rolling dice, it's about the story.

[@bobgabriels8456]

if it is, you are doing it wrong. I AM LOOKING AT YOU, ADND !

[@allluckyseven]

RPGs are about story, yeah, but not just following a pre-made story (although that happens too), rather, the things that you can do in that story, the bending and twisting and doing what you want when you want... and the consequences of that. Dice (more than any other randomizers) help in giving more of a tactile feel of that action you're attempting, in your mind and the minds of the other players. And also provide some of that feeling of surprise, of sometimes succeeding greatly or failing miserably.

[@John-rv2qe]

My wife and I were VERY excited about this game. Then we played it...what a disappointment. Every male character is a wimp, and the lesbianism is distracting. I would like to play a board game WITHOUT getting liberal PC insanity pushed on me.

[@wrcpatrick]

Wow. This has to be the worst review I have watched. Ever. The guy on the left harping on how he doesn't like the setting, the story, reading.. can't stand when 'reviewers' let their personal likes/dislikes affect their experience. It isn't a review if you are just pushing your own personal tastes.

[@Brettspielblog]

wrcpatrick that‘s exactly what I expect from a review, especially by three guys: three single, very subjective, personal opinions and thoughts about different aspects of the game. No clean washed generic bla bla. I

[@wrcpatrick]

@@Brettspielblog good for you. I'll stick with reviews done by people actually interested in the game.

[@mienzillaz]

First of all, stop using this damn tv as constantly changing background does affect your video brightness.. secondly i do get that you have new HQ and you want to show it in cool way but i'm really missing shelfs where i could spot something new for my small collection.. even the first set in new HQ had some shelfs, with fewer games but still.. now it's add for Samsung tv, which btw i own (tv.. not company).. and last but not least this game is rubbish.. my friend tried this concept for his own game.. rather short but he mixed some outdoors activities with it which worked well as ppl were dedicated not only for the story but for bike ride and finding clues to continue the "game".. but if you're not enjoying bike ride then there is nothing much else to do except some reading..

[@scramsby]

True, auto brightness dimming/brightening the video when the scene is changing so much due to the TV is a little distracting.

[@kubrickfan101]

First of all, stop demanding things of people who have their own channel. Either make suggestions nicely or make your own damn channel.

[@keel1701]

All due respect, your friends concept of a game that has players go on actual bike rides to get clues has no basis on a review for this game. You can't call this game rubbish because of that.

[@mienzillaz]

Kyle Martin i skipped a bit of a story here as first concept didn't include any biking whatsoever.. thing is.. like zee said if you're not attached to the story there is nothing that you can call a game.. for my friend this additional activity was a hookup factor to the story.. so w/o engaged players there is no game.. but in other hand engaged group can do the same w/o reading a book.. just imaging things.. still no game from my definition of boardgame..:)

[@mienzillaz]

Joe Heizer so you will respond only to polite feedback..? Or you were just in bad mood..?

[@jasongrundy1717]

It's not even a game.

[@EclecticCamel]

It's a game in the same way a Role Playing Game is a game.

[@phillosmaster393]

It's an interactive form of entertainment. If you think this is not a game then a whole bunch of stuff commonly classified as a game will also fall off the list. It is most certainly a game.