Michael Heiser - Two Powers of the Godhead

[@thomgarza]

Another great teaching by Michael ( may his memory be blessed).

[@jonorcutt3304]

Praying the Lords healing on this man. At the same time. If the lord takes him now. I rejoice that he will be standing, with my own earthly father who passed on this a year, before the face of our Lord in His Devine presence! Thank you Brother for all your service.

[@LilRedRasta]

He passed away.

[@mikekulati7526]

It's almost a year now since he passed on... God grant him the rest he deserves! ​@@LilRedRasta

[@annettearchie-a9251]

Excellent teaching. Had no idea Jesus was so present in the OT.

[@BibliayFe]

Targum Neofiti Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning the son of YHVH created the heavens and the earth"

[@sjappiyah4071]

Excellent presentation, Dr Heiser consistently nails how the theology of the NT directly comes from the OT and it’s theology. God has revealed himself in separate distinct persons from the beginning.

[@lorenzosablaya8079]

The Lord opened their understanding of the scripture, hence the Godhead - Father-Son-Holy Ghost

[@christophernodvik1057]

The best teaching on this subject I have had yet God is using this in my life, thank you!

[@franklix]

He, God is a power, an energy force that our little brains CANNOT comprehend at all. So God chooses a form only for us to perceive him.His Glory and force is so immense and of realms we could never understand, he cannot be bundled up into one shape...so he chooses a form of human shape in order for us to perceive him and have a RELATIONSHIP! with him.

[@michelhaineault6654]

Amen !!! Only God Himself was able to be the sacrificial Lamb nd reconcile us with Him.

[@garyg7549]

Amen Michael and Franklix.

[@mikeskelton6157]

We are created in His image and likeness, so he appears in His eternal, uncreated Form.

[@mider9996]

God already had a relationship with us, the Jews had prophets and the Ark, the Ark connected God to earth.

[@mider9996]

God still has a relationship with us

[@Влади́мирЛе́нин-й2щ]

Thank you very very much for uploading this 🙏

[@johnleger9062]

Thank you big brother in Christ, We love you

[@GraceOnly3]

So good - am glad for this tech to be able to hear the message often & share it widely.

[@GodLovesYou1980]

Thank you

[@betawithbrett7068]

Having studied extensively the earliest Christian writings from the first and second centuries, many of which were men who learned from the apostles, I have repeatedly discerned Michael Heiser not having done that, since his words reject their perspective often, OR he read them but rejected their view. 1:10:00 Michael says Genesis 1:26. says "Let's create human kind". Early Christian perspective was the Father speaking with His Word & Wisdom, not angels, "Let's make man in OUR image," i.e. in the image of God, not of angels. I appreciate Dr Heiser though and enjoying listening.

[@-charutz6732]

As a Christian of Jewish origin, I tell you that Genesis 1:26 is part of one of those verses in which the Lord God of Israel speaks in the plural (Genesis 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8). In Genesis 3:22 the Eternal God addresses the angels, as evidenced by the expression כאחד ממנו (Like one of us), but in Genesis 1:26 this is not the case. Some Jews of the past have given this interpretation of Genesis 1:26, but it is wrong, otherwise it would seem that God created man with the help of angels, because the verse does not speak only of the image (בצלמנו) in a plural way, but also the verb (נעשה) indicates the first person plural. The correct interpretation, on the other hand, is that the Lord God of Israel used an intensive plural in the expression, i.e a plural that indicated intensification and not number, a common thing in terms (such as the term elohim in certain contexts for example) but not common in the expression, in fact in the Old Testament no Israelite king dared to use this way of speaking used by God in the Torah, not even King David even if he spoke of himself not in the first person and in the plural as for example in 1 Kings 1:33. As for the first Christians, from what Tertullian wrote in the third chapter of Against Praxeas it is clear that the first Christians believed that the Lord Jesus Christ is God the Eternal Father and considered the Binitarians and Trinitarians as polytheists. And that the Lord Jesus Christ is God the Eternal Father manifested in flesh also emerges from the comparison between John 2:19-21 and Galatians 1:1.

[@albusai]

In the beginning was the Word

[@rabbitcreative]

... and the word was not the thing. Amen.

[@okhuibutala1640]

Word - became - flesh- light - Jesus- spirit - life John 3-16 Father and son- Jesus - flesh- light Old Testament- New Testament- one Lord One God Eph 4-5,6

[@garlandjones7709]

@@rabbitcreative actually WAS the thing. Be'reshit hayah hadavar.... bereshit....the beginning IS the word, by the way, not when the word was.

[@brenosantana1458]

John 14 24

[@sjappiyah4071]

And the word was with God, and the word was God. Amen

[@CalloohCalley]

In French we say "... Son fils unique" in John 3:16. His 'unique' Son. It can go either way.

[@Swimant]

Thank you Drmh!

[@maxavail]

37:23 the only way I can make sense of this is that the Word that spoke and stood there was audible but invisible, until Samuel said "speak, for your servant hears", at which point the Word also became visible as a Person. This is consistent with Jesus's saying in John 14:21 "Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them." So first you listen, then you obey, then He shows Himself to you, precisely as it was with Samuel.

[@Yesunimwokozi1]

What an indepth study

[@chrisjones-rd8it]

Thanks

[@ToXristianikoKanali]

Very interesting

[@rabbitcreative]

As an long-time video-game addict, the idea of God "sending a small facet" of himself to another entity (human, etc.), seems totally fine to me. My priest infuses my fighter with "god-like strength", and away we go!

[@connornicholas8543]

Amen!!! Yes!!! I believe in God!!! I believe in the Trinity!!! Our Great God and Savior, (Jesus Christ is Yahweh!!!!!!!!!!!!), Who is the Greatest Man in History, Jesus Christ; Had no servants, yet they called Him Master. Had no degree, yet they called Him Teacher. Had no medicines, yet they called Him Healer. He had no army, yet kings feared Him. He won no military battles, yet He conquered the world (Jesus Christ is the General, and Chief, of Heaven and it’s army). He did not live in a castle, yet they called Him Lord. He ruled no nations (Not on earth, yet. However, he is the Ruler of all creation, whether it be things seen or unseen. For he, Jesus Christ, is from Everlasting to Everlasting.), yet they called Him King. He committed no crime, yet they crucified Him. He was buried in a tomb, yet He rose from the dead on the third day; and lives on forever and ever our Great God and Savior, Jesus Christ!!! Praise the love of my life, and love itself, God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit forever and ever (in Grace)!!!!!!!!!! In Jesus Christ’s mighty name, I say amen!!!!! 😊😊😊

[@CaptainSaber7]

Also - this idea that the Angel of the Lord is the "could rider" is in the Apocrypha as well. See final verse of Apocalypse of Thomas.

[@MrChemenger]

Malachi 3 this stuff is all over the Bible it really should make us stop and wonder

[@c19commander44]

I have heard other Scholars who teach the same thing. about the 2 powers in heaven.

[@neophyteone712]

Indeed, Alan Segal

[@sjappiyah4071]

Yup , Dr Benjamin Somer an Orthodox Jew is another. Though he is clear that he *personally* does not believe in the multiple persons of YWHW he states clearly that this was an acceptable view in 2nd temple Judaism and that it does not contradict the OT.

[@shannonbyrd2877]

I think Heiser may misunderstand Segel. For instance, Segel seems to be making an inductive sort of case that the “two powers” hermeneutics were in place during the Amoraic period and this may lend evidence that there were earlier hermeneutical traditions these heretics were informed by. Heiser seems to think that the “two powers” being condemned in the 2nd century means they were considered orthodox prior to. I think this is a non-sequitur unless there is some implicit premise or other evidence Heiser has that he hasn’t revealed.

[@Will-wk3]

Michael Heiser's dissertation was on linking the two powers subject with the vice regent in Canaanite religion. He said that the two powers thing (Segal perhaps and many academics) wasn't linked to other teachings around the time of the Israelites. Heiser's dissertation was about Israelite religion having a vice regent much like Canaanite religion, however one, as Heiser uses Segal's work to point out the two powers wasn't heresy, but a valid view, and with arguments and evidence from Canaanite religion, that it was around in the time of the Isrealites.

[@Will-wk3]

Doesn't the third section in extra-rabbinical evidence cover the concept to be a valid Orthodox view?

[@hornplayer1228]

If Christ and two angels could appear in human form and eat and converse with Abraham before they blew up Sodom and Gomorrah then there is nothing weird about Christ appearing to and conversing with Samuel.

[@AHK802]

Isaiah 61 if I remember right identifies this angel with “the angel of the presence of the Lord” and also as his “Holy Spirit “ fast forward to gospel and the angel Gabriel identifies himself as “Gabriel who stands in the presence of the Lord”

[@anyaforger8409]

They are not the same because the Power he is talking to is those associated with YHWH Himself.

[@AHK802]

@@anyaforger8409 it’s the same power/ angel from exodus 23 and Isaiah 61 is referring back to that 20 "Behold, I send an angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared. 21 Pay careful attention to him and obey his voice; do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgression, for my name is in him. 22 "But if you carefully obey his voice and do all that I say, then I will be an enemy to your enemies and an adversary to your adversaries. (Exodus 23:20, ESV) That’s is explicitly the power they are referring to and it clearly says it’s an angel, Isaiah 61 identifies this angel with the Holy Spirit, remarkably Islam has always identifies the Holy Spirit with Gabriel and the Bible supports this also

[@Isaiah-kg8rj]

Thank you for posting this. I am amazed. I have read through the Bible so many times over the decades. But the old testament duality verses, which he points out, somehow slipped right past me as far as me understanding them or even really seeing them. I do wonder though, why he never mentioned the Almighty asking Job to tell him what his son’s name was, if he knew it. And I am wondering why he didn’t mention Isaiah 9:6 where we were told that a child is born, and that his name shall be called wonderful, counselor, mighty YHWH. Am I missing something?

[@nanadeborah8717]

There are many references in the Old Testament. I'm sure the book he refers to goes into depth about this,but it was Heiser's personal choice for these. No need to wonder or think you are missing something. It's a time constriction for a lecture.

[@connornicholas8543]

Yes!!! I believe God!!! I believe in the Trinity!!! Thank you God!!! Amen!!! Praise the love of my life, and love itself, God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit (only) forever and ever!!! If you haven't been saved yet, then repent of your sins, and believe (with all your heart and soul) and confess today out loud that Jesus Christ died on a cross for your sins, was buried, physically rose from the on the third day by the power of God the Father and the Holy Spirit, and is Yahweh (Romans 10:9, Acts 16:31, and 1 Corinthians 15:3-4)!!! Trust in God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit; and submit yourself to our Lord, Most High God, and Savior, Jesus Christ (in his mighty Grace)!!! In Jesus Christ's name, I say, amen!!! 😊😊😊

[@rabbitcreative]

The angel, and Yahweh, are both in the bush. What will you do?

[@princeamoakwa4057]

True and good observation.

[@garyg7549]

I thought the angel was Yahweh. What did I miss? I'm trying to fully grasp this and be able to explain it.

[@rabbitcreative]

@@garyg7549 I was having fun with the language in the video. I make no assertion about anything in the video. Carry on.

[@garyg7549]

@@rabbitcreative okay I appreciate it. Thank you.

[@princeamoakwa4057]

@@garyg7549, this particular Angel is one with Yahweh. That's why He speaks like Yahweh.

[@hildabuena1540]

Por favor esta charla en Español gracias

[@DenniseCastro-vv9lf]

ya hay una, hace unos meses la pusieron en otra pagina.

[@jhood8367]

Behold ye among the heathen, and regard, and wonder marvellously: for I will work a work in your days, which ye will not believe, though it be told you. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand. That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil. For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you. Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent. Jesus of Nazareth taught to REPENT! For the Kingdom of God is at Hand! My name is Jonathan Roger Hood and I Am come to tell you REPENT! For the Kingdom of God HAS COME! JUDGMENT HAS COME! Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things. For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Is it any pleasure to the Almighty, that thou art righteous? or is it gain to him, that thou makest thy ways perfect? Will he reprove thee for fear of thee? will he enter with thee into judgment? Is not thy wickedness great? and thine iniquities infinite? I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts. Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the Lord, until the day that I rise up to the prey: FOR MY DETERMINATION IS TO GATHER THE NATIONS, THAT I MAY ASSEMBLE THE KINGDOMS, TO POUR UPON THEM MINE INDIGNATION, EVEN ALL MY FIERCE ANGER: FOR ALL THE EARTH SHALL BE DEVOURED WITH THE FIRE OF MY JEALOUSY!!!... Be silent, O all flesh, before the LORD: for he is raised up out of his holy habitation... REPENT!!!

[@daysofnoah1748]

The two powers .... Almost like the tale of the churning of the universe ?

[@brenosantana1458]

Only the father is God according to what Jesus believes.

[@CaptainSaber7]

Also - compare Jesus' sermon about the Comforter in John 16 to the Rod of Jesse in Isaiah 11. Both are said to judge the world. So, out of the stem of Jesse comes the Rod of Jesse...Jesus is the Stem. The Rod is HIS heir.

[@michelhaineault6654]

Jesus is Yahweh in is human form Yahweh is the cloud rider and Jesus is also riding the cloud at is coming IN THE AIR.... the coming of Jesus is the coming of God judgement on men at the end of the present kosmos....

[@AHK802]

Exodus 23 I believe this so called second power is an angel

[@brianbradford4023]

τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ Κυρίου τῶν δυνάμεων καθημένου ἐπὶ τῶν Χερουβὶν ἐπ᾿ αὐτῆς.

[@brenosantana1458]

God the father sent angels and the angels had authority from God, for example. See Exodus 7 1, Moses received authority and Moses is not the creator himself. The text in the Tanakh does not say is Jesus that appeared to Abraham, for example.

[@sjappiyah4071]

1) No one is denying that Angels had authority from God. The Argument here is that there is a sole specific figure “The Angel of YWHW “ who is *identified* as God himself. 2) The argument is not that the Tanakh says that it was Jesus who appeared to Abraham. The Tanakh does not mention the name “Jesus”. The argument is that the “Word of the Lord” is a separate person from God the Father that is still identified as God. It is this “Word of the Lord” figure that New Testament authors believe incarnated and became man, and this man was Jesus.

[@brenosantana1458]

@@sjappiyah4071 The angels had authority from God, they were not God themselves if they are called elohim. Understand? If the angel had authority from God, he is not God himself, another one gave authority to him. Yes, the text does not mention Jesus as the angel. This is not in the Tanakh also, this "Word of the Lord" is a different person and is still God. Does it not go against John 1 1? The different person ideia? Why the "Word" capitalized? The word of God is not a different person, see psalms 33 6. Another translation for logos is saying, if this helps you understand. Also See gen 1 3, God spoke in the verse. And Isaiah 44 24, the father is the creator alone. The logos tabernacled in them, this text is not literally a word pitching its tent, for example. See John 14 24. Jesus is not God, if you believe this. John 17 1 3.

[@sjappiyah4071]

@@brenosantana1458 1) “They are not God themselves if they are called Elohim” That’s false , YWHW is called Elohim multiple times. “Elohim” simply means a divine being . YHWH is a divine being but not every divine being is YWHW, understand? I agree however, NOT every Angel is identified as YHWH . However, “The Angel of YWHW “ contrasted from other angels IS identified as YWHW. Let’s look at some examples: Judges 13:3 “The Angel of YWHW “ is the one who appears to Samson’s parents. Judges 13:19-20 ; Samson’s parents offer a sacrifice to YWHW , a flame came from heaven , The Angel of YWHW disappeared in the flame and Samson’s parents *were watching* . In judges 13:20 Samson’s father realizes it’s not simpler any Angel but “The Angel of YWHW” Then Samson’s father in Judges 19:22 said to his wife “Judges 13:22 [22] And Manoah said to his wife, “We shall surely die, for we have seen God.” Why would Samson’s parents be afraid of death if they only saw a *mere* angel /elohim. YWHW is the only one who if seen can potentially cause death . So why would his parents be afraid? It’s because the Angel of YWHW, is YWHW. Another example See Genesis 28:16-22 when Jacob said YWHW is in this place, and makes a pillar at Bethel. Then in Genesis 31:11-13 The Angel says “ *I am the God of Bethel* “ . It’s ridiculously obvious. 2) You’re making the same mistake with “The word “ as you’re making with “Angel”, you have to understand that there are *multiple uses* for these terms. In John 14:24 the “word” Jesus is referring to is not a person but rather a *message* . This message comes from the Father and Jesus delivers it. In John 1 the Word is a *person* , this is evident by the use of personal pronouns to identify “The Word” ( eg John 1:2 John 1:2 [2] HE was in the beginning with God.) So the Word is *seperate* from God the Father, Identified as a different person, but also eternally present in the beginning. The Greek of John 1 makes this even more clear , in John 1 when it says “the Word was with God” the term for “with” is “πρὸς τὸν” ( pros ton) which means *facing towards* . If the Word is not a person that would make absolutely 0 sense grammatically in Greek. If the Word was just the Verbal utterance of the Father, then the word couldn’t *face towards* the Father. Meaning that “The Word” is clearly a person in John 1. That’s why the word can pitch his tent /tabernacle with us and become flesh as John 1:14 because it’s a person . . 3) Once again , you’re assuming your own theology into the text . Isaiah 44:2 *DOES NOT* say “the Father” alone created the world, it says “YWHW made the world alone”. So we agree YWHW alone created the universe . The question now is how many people are identified as YWHW, and how many people in scripture are identified as creators of the universe? Jesus the Son is identified as creator of the universe - See Psalm 102:25 where it says YHWH created the earth, then see Hebrews 1:10-12 where God the Father speaking of the son (starting from Hebrew 1:8) says the son is the one who created the earth…

[@brenosantana1458]

@@sjappiyah4071 The father is elohim, but the angels were sent by the father, the only elohim. There is only one God, the father. Deut 4 35, John 17 3. The angel is called by the name of the one who sent him, the angel is not himself the one who sent him. This is why he is called an angel, that is, a messenger. God sent the messenger. 2 different persons. Like you digitated, an angel, a messenger. It is not "mere" he was sent by God. See the previous verses in Judges, the angel was saw, and they were alive, this proves that they did not saw God himself, the one that they could not see his face and live. John 1 18. It is not only begotten God in the verse. The angel is not an messenger? A messenger does not speak the words of the one who sent him? The interpretation is not that the angel is God himself, if this is your thesis. John 24 14, it is the same word in the Greek, but for you to understand that the word is not from Jesus himself, it came from the father. This verse helps one understands John 1 14. But this is English interpretation based upon translation, if we would be follow the English language, it is not "He", but "it", the pronoun for word is "it" in the English. In the Greek the pronoun agrees with the word, but this translation in English, it does not. The text does not says that the word is a person separate from God, this is interpretation. logos or word or saying. About the word, see psalms 33 6, this is not a separate person from God, it is the spoken word of God. Can you see? So, προς is not "with". See John 3 4 in the Greek, the word of the speaker is not a person also. I learned that pros is in direction to.

[@brenosantana1458]

@@sjappiyah4071 Continuing the comment, Jesus pitched a tent in John 1 14? Do you think that this is the meaning of the passage? The flesh and the tent reference are connected. The father that is in Isaiah 44 24. The God of Israel is the God of Jesus. John 20 17. One is the creator, the father in Isaiah 44 24, see also Deut 6 4. God is one, like Jesus believed, John 17 3. What Jesus said? If the writer of Hebrews wanted to reference Jesus in Hebrews 1 8, there is different opinions. He was mistaken, the text makes reference to the God of Israel in psalms.

[@jamessloan508]

At 5:40, or so, Michael Heiser sets his premise on Yahushua claiming to be the son of YHWH. That is not true. He never claimed that except to the High Priest at the very last. The High Priest tore his robe

[@vacaloca5575]

There are two names in heaven (Yah and YHVH, hence "shammayim"), but there is only one power in heaven (God), for YHVH is only a manifestation of Yah in the physical, and Yah is the individuality of God, expressing as the Universal Mind of the entire living universe.

[@c19commander44]

By the way- angel means messenger. JESUS is the Messenger who came down from heaven. HE is the MESSENGER(angel) of the LORD. Malachi 3:1. Part A---See, I will send my Messenger (John 1:23 John ,the messenger who prepared the way for JESUS) Part B Then suddenly THE LORD you are seeking will come to HIS Temple , THE "MESSENGER " of the Covenant. There you have it, TWO LORD. one Referred as the Messenger.we know that Messenger is JESUS.

[@michelhaineault6654]

angels mean messenger but messengers are not always from the invisible realm.... Jesus is the incarnation of the almighty one who came as the sacrificial Lamb in is creation to saves is peoples.

[@c19commander44]

@@michelhaineault6654 Angels are not always from the Invisible realm ? what exactly you mean by that. yes JESUS took Human Nature and end up being Human, And if JESUS had the NATURE of GOD before He became Human. what was HE?

[@michelhaineault6654]

@@c19commander44 Jesus been begotten so He was Yahweh before is incarnation only the Father have the true nature of God ! angel mean messenger so a man can be a ''messenger'' also

[@c19commander44]

@@michelhaineault6654 Are you a Oneness believer ? if you are i wont go more into this subject. You belief on the meaning of the word Begotten ? Created ? JESUS & Yahweh are not the same Entity/person/Being . that is a fact in the Bible. I do agree that a man can be a Messenger also.

[@michelhaineault6654]

@@c19commander44 all the Jews where MONOTHEIST and never trinitarians . Show me one verse saying '' God is three different persons'' !! But God ALWAYS say I AM and never say WE ARE. Jesus quoting the shema said Love the Lord your God ... never say love the three Lords your God so was Jesus a liar???? John8:48 Jesus also claim to be I AM the Father= Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.” 57 So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?”[b] 58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” 59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple. The Jews perfectly understand that Jesus by saying He was I AM before Abraham exist was calling Himself Yahweh (I AM) and this is why they wanna stones Him.

[@brianbradford4023]

Wow all subsequent translations really went off the rails from the LXX

[@SaintFort]

LMAO.

[@barbarza]

Oyyyyyy, doesn't the Scripture explain itself as to who the angle of the Lord is? Here it is: REVELATION 22 :16 I, Yeshua, have sent my angel to testify these things to you for the churches. PS: when churchians say, that church is no longer mentioned after 3rd chapter of Revelation, read 22:16, the last chapter.

[@sjappiyah4071]

Revelation 22:6 is not referring to “The Angel of YWHW” . Firstly it doesn’t say “Yeshua” / “Jesus” sent the Angel , it says in verse 6 it rather says “the LORD , the God of the spirits of the prophets has sent his Angel” You inserted Jesus into the text when he’s not mentioned here. The Angel that the Lord God sent , in verse 8 is bowed and worshipped and this Angel immediately tells John to get up as only God showed be worshipped. So this obviously isn’t Jesus because Jesus accepts worship because he is truly the Son of Gid worthy of worship(Matthew 14:33 for eg) The bible states that the Angel of YWHW delivered the Israelites from Egypt. And Jude 1:5 specifically Identifies Jesus as being that individual who delivers. Thus the Angel of YWHW and Jesus are the same person.

[@CaptainSaber7]

All of Jesus' talk about being a Son and doing the works of His Father ... folks .... this is the secret hiding in plain sight. If the Son is doing the works of the Father ... then He is becoming a ......? Isaiah 51:9-10 - Jehovah tells the servant he is the Angel of the Lord. The servant is exalted and extolled by Kings at the end. The end times King is not Jesus but Jesus' Son. The Son of the Son.

[@garyg7549]

Wow that's a little bit new. I haven't heard that before could you provide more explanation for that? I'm open to hearing what you have to say. Thank you.

[@mosheyriver7249]

Hahah! I actually had a good laugh. Are you are troll or being for real?

[@darylgass9532]

This guy uses a Counterfeit Bible to prove his pagan Trinity god ! Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

[@michaeldukes4108]

You’re quoting one verse, devoid of context, to refute over an hour of speaking by a man who literally presented his argument from Genesis to the New Testament. Repent, and believe in the one, triune God of Israel. He’s so much more wonderful than what you’ve been taught,

[@darylgass9532]

@@michaeldukes4108 It only takes one verse to prove his assumptions wrong !! If even one verse disagrees with man’s doctrine then either God’s word is wrong or man’s doctrine is wrong ! I’m betting it’s man’s doctrine that is wrong !! How about a second verse: Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, … If Christ is the express (Exact) image of God the Father’s person then how can Christ be another person ??? Here’s another verse ; Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. So if God is a spirit how can he be seen except through his body which is Christ ?? Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. In Christ dwells the Godhead which is God’s Spirit and soul ! Can you see a spirit and soul without a body ??? There are dozens of scriptures that refute the pagan trinity doctrine but why should I bother since you are more interested in protecting your false beliefs than you are in the truth !! Good day !!

[@HaonDlo]

That probably isn’t a great verse to use against Trinitarian thought. Look at it carefully: “Theon oudeis heōraken popōte monogenēs Theos ho ōn eis ton kolpon tou Patros ekeinos exēgēsato” John 1: 18 greek It basically translates: “God no one has seen ever yet; the (unique/only begotten) God, the being in the bosom of the Father, He has made Him known” John 1: 18 The God in the bosom of the Father is understood to be Jesus, which doesn’t sound very “anti-Trinitarian”.

[@matthewpohlman]

@@darylgass9532 All of the verses you use speak to Jesus Christ being God.

[@darylgass9532]

@@matthewpohlman He is God !! There is only one God !! Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

[@claudiozanella256]

It's a riddle posed by Jesus 2000 years ago. It can be easily verified from the gospels that Jesus is NOT omnipotent and therefore the answer given by the bishops of Nicea is wrong (they state He is omnipotent). My answer is correct: only Jesus exists, He is God since He was the almighty God. But He is NOT omnipotent because He lost his power. The almighty God on the contrary is absent, but we can talk to Him, He is VIRTUALLY here. We can say that He is an almighty Ghost.

[@neophyteone712]

There is a distinction between God Most High and the Son of God but what the son is, is what God Most High is, and therefore they are co-equal

[@claudiozanella256]

@@neophyteone712 The doctrine of the triune God is just a large display of nonsense: 1. The almighty God CANNOT BE HERE among us for a logical reason: He would know HIS OWN future too and this would DESTROY his freedom. (This is why He is in the PAST ("The world has not known you"). Christianity is a "workaround" that allows God to be here among us in the transformed form of a non-omnipotent God: Jesus, the God who doesn't know the future.) 2. if the Father has NOT been generated and the Son has been generated, they surely are not co-equal. 3. it is ridiculous and offensive to talk about the "substance" of God, God is not made up by a "substance". 4. therefore it's nonsense to state that Father and Son are made by a SAME substance 5. even if they were made by a same substance, they still are two different Persons as long as they have two DIFFERENT MINDS. 6. it's absurd having TWO different almighty persons in the universe, if one wants the moon white painted, what will the other one do in this regard, can He change that color? Logic allows at most ONLY ONE omnipotent person, 7. it's absurd to state that an "omnipotent Lord who gives life" exists, a third "forgotten" God totally UNKNOWN in the scriptures 8. it's ridiculous to state that the almighty God is not sufficiently almighty and He needs the help from a God's Helper 9. it's lying to state that Jesus is almighty when the gospels state exactly the opposite. 10. God "having a Son " in the LITERAL SENSE sounds ridiculous. The reality is that God dropped his power to become like a normal man: the Son.

[@neophyteone712]

@@claudiozanella256 step by step my friend. There is what is referred to as the monarchia of the Father, meaning that in a relative sense the Father is superior to the other hypostasis. The son is the divine intermediary that makes something of the unknowable Father known to us. Because the Son radiates or generates from the Father, they are connected, and although you are right applying "substance" to the incomprehensible Father is not applicable in an absolute sense, I am using it analogously. In truth, no language or description can be applied to the Father. To quote a famous Dominican friar and mystic from the 13th century, God is nothing because "he" is not a thing. I hope this clears things up.

[@claudiozanella256]

@@neophyteone712 "hypostasis" "other hypostasis" "substance of God", I could say that those terms have the same value as terms like "fried air" or "nonsense juice". They are meaningless terms just used to cover up failures in understanding God. Who "The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit" are HAS NOT BEEN UNDERSTOOD by the guys of Nicea and surroundings. NO RIDICULOUS SUBSTANCE, NO HYPOSTASIS EXIST. It MEANS INSTEAD: in the name of the FATHER, He existed ONLY IN THE PAST and therefore "no one ever saw God" and the "world has not known" Him. But from the PAST He is able to be present here only with his words and actions, in the form of a spirit "God is a spirit". God is present here, He is the Holy Spirit. Since the Father cannot disappear, this means that the Son logically WAS the Father. "WAS" not "IS". There must be a difference, which one ? This is stated in the gospels "Truly, truly I say to you, the Son is NOT ABLE to do anything of himself," (John 5:19). The Son WAS the Father and now has no power at all, He is like a normal man.

[@neophyteone712]

@@claudiozanella256 you seem to be promoting a modalism of sorts. How do you understand theophanies where both Father and Son are present simultaneously? Such as Daniel 7:9 but also the New Testament theophany where during the Baptism of Jesus the Father's voice spoke.

[@mider9996]

It just means the Angel is speaking in Gods authority....is Jesus an Angel now? Jacob said he wrestled God...doesn’t mean the Angel was God

[@fennek5351]

Angel means messenger. Not a description of the sort of being.

[@mider9996]

@@fennek5351 yes, it’s not God

[@fennek5351]

@@mider9996 have listened to the whole teaching?

[@mider9996]

@@fennek5351 I know the concept of Jesus being a created being or Angel.

[@fennek5351]

@@mider9996 apparently you have not listened well and read the Bible in context. Jesus was crucified because he claimed to be God. John 1 does not makes this clear to you?

[@CaptainSaber7]

He should have mentioned the Davidic Covenant in 1 Chronicles 17. Jehovah promises David another will arise from his lineage. Of this man he says, "I will be His Father. He shall be my Son." Jesus is the son here right? Wrong. Next, Jehovah says, "I will not remove my mercy from him as I did your forbear (Saul.)" Jesus does not require mercy. But, the prophecies of Isaiah suggest the servant is becoming a Son and that this servant is the Angel of the Lord. This servant relies on Jehovah's care and mercy. Isaiah 63 also identifies this servant as the Angel of the Presence and the Spirit. The Spirit - Jesus' Spirt - is Jesus' heir folks. Jesus said He came here to do the works of HIS Father. What did the works of Jesus' Father do for the Father? Which title does Jesus use for the Father all over John 1-10. (Father) Jesus is doing the works of the Father as an obedient Son. The Father works made the Father a Father. Now these same works are making Jesus ... a.............................. _______?

[@garyg7549]

Very interesting Ryan. I'm looking for your comments here on this video trying to understand everything you're saying. Thank you. The more you can elaborate the more it will help me understand. Thanks again.

[@makaikenneth6501]

Your presentation lacks the Tanakh in Genesis,exodus and judges read the dealings of God with Abraham and Sarah men appeared one was God Hagar saw angel of the Lord said ive seen God and angel spoke in first person Isaac God appeared to him Jacob God appeared to him said i have seen God Angel of the Lord told him I am God of your fathers whom you met at Bethel Said the God before whom my fathers walked,the God who has been my shepherd and the angel who redeemed me bless the lads Moses in the fire the angel appears there but the voice said I am the God of your fathers ,tell them my name is yahweh forever for all generations People of Israel in tent of meeting Cloud would descend and God communed with Moses and the people odf Israel Manoah and His wife angel of the Lord appeared to them and they said we have seen God Summary The messenger(Angel) spoke in some instances as the Lord God himself The messenger in most cases acted as sent by God Those who saw him would say i have seen God face to face Thus messiah is not the Father but in some instances he spoke like the father,God and will perform some delegated functions of God He shall be called God with us eg I am the first and last Son judges as the father Son forgives sins son gives eternal life son raises the dead son holds keys of death and Hades

[@hcfaz]

You were doing so good until you started to mix the begotten with greek and Hebrew. Then you start to try to almost say that Jesus was not even begotten and there is nothing special about his birth. Jesus is more than unique. He is the ONLY BEGOTTEN of the Father, not the ONLY UNIQUE of the Father. This is the problem all those who believe in the co eternal existence of the son have. While I agree, that the Logos and the Father are one, I do not agree that the SON existed as the Son prior to his begetting. That is why it says in the OT, the Angel, the Word, and such of YHWH and not the Son of YHWH. Also notice that the WORD has always been referred as the Son of Man and not the SON OF GOD. If the Son existed prior to his begetting, how easy would have it been for us to see it through out the text. Just as easy for us to see the one power in the two persons. The Word and YHWH.

[@betawithbrett7068]

I appreciate Michael showing these passages in the OT, but I don't understand when he says "angel" that he does not remind people, repeatedly, this Hebrew word מלאך malakh means "messenger" (someone carrying a message i.e. the Word) that in NT Greek is αγγελος angelos which we transliterate as ANGEL. But it translated as messenger. It is CONTEXT that is needed to determine it indicates a CREATED heavenly messenger as opposed to YhWh. Otherwise you could get a Jehovah Witness erroroneous view that Jesus is a created angel. מלאך malakh indicates his JOB not his nature (creature vs creator).

[@makaikenneth6501]

Yes the messenger is at times speaking in first person and those who meet him say i have seen God yet its the Angel of the Lord that is the catch ANGEL of the Lord who is a messenger of God but is addressed as i have seen God and Lord and speaks like God in some instances but acts as and speaks as messenger in others Great. So Messiah in some places speaks like God and claims divinity like I am the first and last

[@MA-bh4rj]

En español

[@albusai]

M A en el principio estaba la palabra

[@c19commander44]

Man/Humanity was made in the Image & likeness of GOD. So GOD does have a BODY. humans look like GOD.hands,etc the book of Daniel 7:9 As I(Daniel) looked, Thrones were set in place. the ANCIENT OF DAYS SEATS DOWN ON HIS THRONE. HIS CLOTHING WAS WHITE AS SNOW,HAIR WHITE AS WOOL,HIAS THRONE WAS FLAMING WITH FIRE. There you have it, and by the way Daniel is not a book of poetry. Daniel 9 is a literal description of events. So GOD does have a BODY.

[@franklix]

He, God is a power, an energy force that our little brains CANNOT comprehend at all. So God chooses a form only for us to perceive him.His Glory and force is so immense and of realms we could never understand, he cannot be bundled up into one shape...so he chooses a form of human shape in order for us to perceive him and have a RELATIONSHIP! with him.

[@KalonOrdona2]

God the father is infinite and cannot be embodied; but the Son of God--still existing before creation but did have a beginning when he was begotten--can have a body, is the finite face of the infinite God. As a participant of the creation of the universe, his blood is worth more than the universe. As a finite being, he can actually go through the death process God must continue to be holy judge. Jesus is the only being in existence who can perform a universally redemptive work.

[@CaptainSaber7]

1:05:00 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Jesus does not identify himself with the "cloud rider" here. Neither does he in Matthew 23 when he tells His disciples they will not see HIM again until they shall say "Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord with all the holy angles with him." The cloud rider is the Holy Ghost - to be revealed at the end. Surprise!

[@mosheyriver7249]

Haha! How can you use that this verse, "And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven." is not Jesus making a claim about Himself. In Matthew 23, Jesus was speaking to the and I quote "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord." How can he be speaking to His disciples? Jesus is saying, "...you will not see me again...", if He wanted to mention the Holy Spirit, which He did before, He would have clearly stated that. I am really not sure how to can not see that in the text and read it other than what it says.

[@kwameadu0075]

Jesus always referred to himself in third person as the Son of Man. Matthew 11:19 ESV - The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ Yet wisdom is justified by her deeds.” Are the Pharisees accusing the Holy Spirit of being a drunk here? Matthew 12:32 ESV - And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. Here Christ makes a clear distinction between the Son of Man and the Holy Spirit! Matthew 12:40 ESV - For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. The Holy Spirit will die and stay in the grave for three days and three nights??

[@sjappiyah4071]

@@mosheyriver7249 Exactly haha, I’ve never seen such a desperate attempt to disassociate Jesus with the “Son of Man” loool that’s his most preferred title.

[@edwardlongfellow5819]

is it not ill-advised to proclaim that Yahweh is unique? Considering that he is bot one of a number of gods worshipped in the past and today.

[@garlandjones7709]

No because that's exactly how he is presented. tradition has focused on some passages ignoring others and has interpreted them wrong in doing so. but the English word God in definition is not directly correlative to the Hebrew word or its usage.

[@sjappiyah4071]

The question is what the *bible* describes YWHW as since the discussion is on the theology of the Old Testament. Due to this context, he’s absolutely correct to pose that YWHW is unique because he is the only true deity, the only one who is infinite, limitless and created. All other “gods” according to the OT are nothing but created spiritual entities, nothing but idols (Isaiah 44:6 for eg)

[@edwardlongfellow5819]

@@sjappiyah4071 You might wonder why a unique god such as YWHW supposedly is can be so woefully lacking in medical knowledge.

[@sjappiyah4071]

@@edwardlongfellow5819 I’m not wondering that actually, how on earth does that relate to the current topic ? Talk about a red herring

[@edwardlongfellow5819]

@@sjappiyah4071 Sorry to disappoint in my reply. Is it a red herring to say God is ignorant where medical knowledge is concerned? Perhaps so but unfortunately it is the truth

[@c19commander44]

Some please go and bring "the trinity delusion " dude.

[@richlot63]

The God head is three not two .. i@i...YESHUA !! Returns !

[@dennismaher9533]

the trinity is all over the old covenant ..

[@michelhaineault6654]

two Yahweh REALLY ??? This is totally contrary to all Yahweh teaching! Jesus is not another power but Yahweh who came among us,He was the light (Spirit) of the world. All things been created by Jesus BUT we know that this is Elohim who in the beginning created...all things (gen.1.1) COL.1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: V.16 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

[@michelhaineault6654]

But not you ? Yahweh being the Almighty one is not two powers but all the powers.

[@garyg7549]

@@michelhaineault6654 you guys are both on the same page just stating it differently. It's all good here we're on the same team.

[@michelhaineault6654]

@@garyg7549 two powers mean two thrones in Heaven but only one throne in Heaven call the throne of God and the Lamb this is not two thrones but ONE. Rev.22:3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be within the city, and His servants will worship Him. 4They will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads.… not two thrones at all and who sit in this one throne? God and the Lamb !! Jesus is clearly the visible image the face of the Father sitting on the throne here and He is worship.

[@michelhaineault6654]

Mr Heiser want to introduce the trinity in the old testament but there is no such things as God being three different persons NOWHERE in all the bible. THEY WILL SEE IS FACE (not three faces)

[@garyg7549]

@@michelhaineault6654 I hear you brother. Always remember and I tell this to my friends when explaining this entire thing. THERE IS ONE GOD and only one God. Everything is based on that. I'll take it a step further and say JESUS IS THE FATHER. Isaiah 9:6 makes that very clear. By the way Daniel 7:9 talks about the Father and Jesus and says there were throneS in heaven. Just more fuel for the fire LOL. Last thought. If God was easy for us to understand he wouldn't be God. Don't get caught up in trying to get your mind around this. Just trust the scriptures. As my Jehovah's Witness Buddy says, "how can Jesus pray to himself?" My friend, Jesus is the son of God. "Yeah but you said he was the Father?" I know. He is. And my JW buddy throws his hands in the air and says, "I don't understand." I know, neither do I LOL. But it's true.

[@cddpmpls35]

..so all this just proves the trinity is false and there is one single person of God and he visually reveals himself in and through many different things....including the man jesus.. ..there is one person of God not three..

[@isaacsandoval9316]

Not even close. It shows there are two distinct persons in the one being of God. You would have to be an absolute fool to think God is talking to himself like a schizophrenic.

[@nomadicrecovery1586]

That is literally the opposite of what this proves what this proves is there were two Yahweh. Sometimes described in the same sentence. Abraham spoke to and fed lunch to Yahweh. And two angels noticed the distinction between angels and the one of the three called Yahweh who was in charge. not a third angel or would just say three angels Yahweh spoke to Abraham. Abraham spoke back. Abraham made lunch. Yahweh ate lunch then sent the angels to Sodom. Unless you want to create fantasy textual, twisting of what is clearly written and say it doesn’t mean what it says it means you have to accept that Yahweh was in physical human form. And why, not if Yahweh can create angels and give them ability to take human form, it would be absurd to say that he couldn’t do the same thing that he created them to Does he have some kind of limitation his his angelic sons can take human form when needed but he cannot? That’s just absurd. And that is exactly what it says in these text S What is really important about this lecture and many others by rabbis and Jewish scholars as well is that the Jews for hundreds and hundreds of years prior to Jesus, claiming to be the son of God, the son of man of Daniel, which is a divine meaning God, they already believed that somehow, though they could not understand how, there was two powers, at least in heaven yet only one God . Sounds very similar to what Christian eventually believed as well The Trinity was not a new idea. The deity of Christ was not a new idea. Read John chapter 1 verse one Literally, what is being described in pre-Christian Jewish teaching

[@cddpmpls35]

@@nomadicrecovery1586 ..God is one person..

[@isaacsandoval9316]

@@cddpmpls35 God is one being. Not one person. Read your Bible

[@navarda4life]

Yahweh is the devil,the true eternal God is not the author of confusion,prov 16:16 get understanding🤔➡😱😱.

[@michaeldukes4108]

Lol, get outta here, Manichaean. We’re trying to have a serious discussion.