Michael Lewis is not not saying he predicted things would end up this way

Best-selling author Michael Lewis has a knack for extracting page-turning drama out of otherwise mundane and complicated subjects (hello, bond trading and baseball stats). Several of those books have been so good they’ve been turned into award-winning dramas starring half of Hollywood (hello, “The Big Short” and “Moneyball). And now, Lewis takes a crack at the pandemic realty still unfolding. His new book is called “The Premonition: A Pandemic Story.” In it, Lewis uses the first-hand accounts of three main characters to unravel the government’s gross mismanagement of the COVID response, which lead to nearly 600,000 deaths (among the world’s worst outcomes). On this episode of Next Question with Katie Couric, Katie and Michael Lewis talk about the CDC’s shocking downfall, the gaping holes in the public health system and the secret group of doctors (the so-called “Wolverines) helping to single handedly patch that system together. We also get to hear from one of those doctors, Dr. Joe DeRisi, a biochemistry professor at the University of California, San Francisco, and co-president of the Chan Zuckerberg Biohub.
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[@twilfits]

You not only find the most inspiring people to interview-- you ask the most intriguing questions which amplifies their importance. And I can't think of anyone who does this more naturally. Thank you ❤ 😊!!!

[@hipnicity]

We need people to care about their health while they are WELL!

[@tico28]

Decades ago, the first words from the (College) Microbiology class professor's lips were, "The world belongs to the microorganisms," we laughed. We aren't laughing now, we never should've taken our eyes off the ball is what can be read between the lines in this excellent interview, TY Katie and Michael L!

[@SusanConstant1607]

Mk ultra mind control

[@smsmoof8128]

Especially synthetic ones created from labs ...

[@tuckerbugeater]

@@smsmoof8128 Microbiologist Ralph Baric(UNC scientist/Wuhan lab collaborator), the world's leading coronavirus scholar, one of the greatest experts in the construction of synthetic viruses...: “ You can engineer a virus without leaving any trace . The answers you are looking for, however, can only be found in the archives of the Wuhan laboratory " ->The Wuhan Lab deleted their entire database in September 2019.... Leonardo news spoke with him for the first time in Italy in an interview granted to PresaDiretta

[@pinchebruha405]

@@tuckerbugeater so no proof except the words of an expert against a country….so none of this matters because we will be vulnerable to the next one and the next one!

[@UnknownPascal-sc2nk]

Too bad twunt, along with disbanding the pandemic response task force because Obama appointees were on it, he withdrew our own Wuhan observers.

[@davidsmith530]

It’s really nice to listen to a person that understands what he is discussing.

[@peacelovejoy8786]

Lol.. right!

[@Msboochie2]

Yes. I am shocked to learn that so many people had so much confidence in the CDC, and to hear his assessment of the time frame where the CDC went wrong is horrifying and accurate to me. I was born with a genetic disease in the seventies. By the late 80's, I was a teenager and I had my life nearly destroyed by the CDC twice, not to mention the other patients who had their own stories. I began researching them, and warned people against automatically trusting them. They would subsequently endanger my career and my life again. While this man has educated himself, and is well-read on the subject matter, if more people in charge were and took the time to listen to the little people, perhaps the necessary changes would have been made and we would have a competent agency. His timeline is scarily accurate to me.

[@SusanConstant1607]

CDC warns us of the zombie apocalypse like its predictive programming

[@tuckerbugeater]

@@SusanConstant1607 Microbiologist Ralph Baric(UNC scientist/Wuhan lab collaborator), the world's leading coronavirus scholar, one of the greatest experts in the construction of synthetic viruses...: “ You can engineer a virus without leaving any trace . The answers you are looking for, however, can only be found in the archives of the Wuhan laboratory " ->The Wuhan Lab deleted their entire database in September 2019.... Leonardo news spoke with him for the first time in Italy in an interview granted to PresaDiretta

[@Realist-sh3dg]

@@tuckerbugeater You can engineer a virus without leaving any trace.the answers you are looking for, however, can only be found in the archives of the Wuhan laboratory " We know they did it but destroyed the evidence. Standard procedure for generating a conspiracy theory.

[@radman1136]

Great interview Katie! Lewis is one of my favorite authors, and I think that's the best interview of him I've seen. Enjoyed it immensely. Thank you.

[@zedgarden]

One of the geniuses of our time. Great interview! Thank you.

[@lisasue4520]

Katie is my favorite journalist of all time. She’s always so intuitive and even-keeled

[@reginaldbowls7180]

She's a corporate shill.

[@sunshine3914]

@@reginaldbowls7180 Explain.

[@SusanConstant1607]

Intuitive means she has a clue

[@dollymadison2397]

SAME!! What a treasure!!

[@dollymadison2397]

@@reginaldbowls7180 Couldn't be THAT bad, Reginald- YOU'RE here! Nonetheless- thanks for clicking on- your tiny contribution of toward Katie C's power & success is better than nothing/indifference. Oh & thanks for spending even more of your time hanging out with us in the comment section. How & where one spends one's time speaks VOLUMES over one's words. You are no exception to that FACT!

[@kennethkauzlaric8948]

This was such an informative interview. This was a cross between a Frontline Special, Ken Burns documentary and a Ayn Rand novel. I've been thinking lately about how history is going to judge our response and effectiveness in handling this pandemic. I guess this was the answer.

[@smsmoof8128]

*Yawn* ... 99.???% survival rate. This was a plandemic ... as the plandemic showed people should be more worried obesity, diabetus, having trouble breathing because of being fat and what they are eating. The lab managers where this came from knew exactly the victims the release was going to go after.

[@tuckerbugeater]

@@smsmoof8128 Microbiologist Ralph Baric(UNC scientist/Wuhan lab collaborator), the world's leading coronavirus scholar, one of the greatest experts in the construction of synthetic viruses...: “ You can engineer a virus without leaving any trace . The answers you are looking for, however, can only be found in the archives of the Wuhan laboratory " ->The Wuhan Lab deleted their entire database in September 2019.... Leonardo news spoke with him for the first time in Italy in an interview granted to PresaDiretta

[@smsmoof8128]

@@tuckerbugeater nice. Looks at judge: Your honor I rest my case.

[@bethm6941]

TY so much for having M Lewis on.

[@peggystoutemorin4529]

Katie, you really are an excellent journalist. I'm always impressed by the smart, relevant questions you ask your guests, no matter how technical the subject. Keep it up.

[@jotsingh8917]

And so is the hockey mom from Alaska.

[@stdev.]

@@jotsingh8917 Sarah Palin does what now?

[@dr.barrycohn5461]

@@jotsingh8917 Huh? Are you comparing Couric to Palin?

[@mariannehaworth9132]

Just saying Katie always looks so confident and comfortable, what a pro. This guy is super smart. :D

[@walternicolas6927]

Hello Marianne how are you doing today ?

[@tq2769]

yep

[@twilfits]

IKR she's so genuine so excited to meet her guests 💗

[@csloane4129]

SHE is super-smart as well.

[@dollymadison2397]

Yes! Katie C is an American treasure...a living legend!

[@mmpw5775]

This guy is paying attention.

[@rajabali8024]

Xxxxxxxx

[@rajabali8024]

wwww

[@j.p.montpellier3834]

Katie....This was one of your best interviews. Fascinating topic with an extremely interesting and intelligent guess. BRAVO ! 👏👏👏😊👍 Merci Beaucoup....🥂🇨🇦

[@feedermonkey7233]

Agreed! 👍👏👏👏

[@j.p.montpellier3834]

Merci...🍸

[@carolinemaybe]

His books are amazing.

[@j.p.montpellier3834]

They must be Caroline....Refreshing to have a retun of intellectual and rational discussions on important topics that effects us all. Bravo !

[@b991228]

Young Americans have the vision to see that radical change is a necessity and has to be embraced while many of us oldsters are in total denial. It’s time for us to step aside and let the kids take charge. The future is in the hands of the next generation.

[@Shiloh_II]

"Change comes one funeral at a time". Folks like McConnell don't step aside. Same w/ Pelosi, Biden, Schumer. The Dem Triumvirate.

[@susansoule9002]

++

[@Noneya5241]

Well said

[@blakesleyk.7166]

How is it that boomers who grew up w/responsible, Factual, sourced & accountable journalism are discounted. In your opinion, we’re better served relying on Doomers & GenZ, glued to their algorithm selectively fed glass tit. Tech. Unable to comprehend nuance. Facts vs disinformation. Real journalism is dead. Without which democracy dies.

[@tuckerbugeater]

@@blakesleyk.7166 Funny these boomers profited nicely off a burgeoning consumer economy and fossil fuels. Now they want us to change it to a technocratic dystopia. You stupid green fascists can F off.

[@sweetsue4204]

Thanks for the hopeful conclusion. My friends here in Trumpland think I’m crazy, but I’ve been telling them for months that they’re discounting the talent of our citizens and the way we always find some unexpected way to bounce the right way. It might not be pretty or painless, but our innovative nature rises to the surface in the end.

[@AttackHak]

Katie Courics news has been made better by COVID. Thanks Katie for your in-depth stories.

[@SusanConstant1607]

When the nazis lock you in you become a captive audience

[@mpetry912]

Very worthwhile interview, best thing I've listened to all day !

[@davidkess2405]

.................Michael Lewis is the best of the best........

[@deidrabay]

Thank you, Katie! You’re one of the best interviewers out there. Really appreciate that you let your guests give a complete answer- you don’t interrupt them - It’s more like a conversation. And you ask great questions and are always fully informed about your guests’ work. Thank you!

[@tombouie]

Great/Timely Interview

[@clairerobinson7658]

What a wonderful interview! Thank you Katie. I learned so much.

[@hllok]

Great interview Katie, thank you. I just adore how you let your guests talk without over-controlling the situation. You come across as prepared, but mostly curious.

[@nancercize]

Her last question, what have we learned, and is it enough to help us handle the next pandemics, is the most important.

[@brementmark]

Terrific information and great interview

[@clbazar]

Fantastic work, Katie! Your long-format interviews are richly satisfying. Thank you for everything you do! 🙏

[@pattygould8240]

This was so informative. Thank you.

[@edamoroso9062]

Excellent discussion- looking forward to the book!

[@joandolliedoyle775]

It's great that after all his research of the challenges and mistakes that he is very optimistic for the future.

[@audreydakin8130]

What a fascinating interview.

[@susanbengston3496]

Astounding Interview- Hope IS Alive!!

[@nena4215]

Stanislaus county here in California was one of first to start vaccine roll outs, first by age, no appointment just come on down. They get an A+, still going strong!

[@briancase6180]

UCSF and the whole UC system reality has gotten no where near the national exposure and acclaim that it is due. California hasn't done everything right, by far (we haven't counted deaths very well, e.g., see this www.healthdata.org/special-analysis/estimation-excess-mortality-due-covid-19-and-scalars-reported-covid-19-deaths), but we've don't better than many other states and counties and with a MUCH greater population.

[@tangledwebs860]

Why would you be so proud to be a part of this dangerous experiment?

[@nena4215]

@@tangledwebs860 it is no experiment and I can protect you, everyone that got vaccinated will help protect you.........

[@tuckerbugeater]

Screw you and your bioweapon plandemic. Microbiologist Ralph Baric(UNC scientist/Wuhan lab collaborator), the world's leading coronavirus scholar, one of the greatest experts in the construction of synthetic viruses...: “ You can engineer a virus without leaving any trace . The answers you are looking for, however, can only be found in the archives of the Wuhan laboratory " ->The Wuhan Lab deleted their entire database in September 2019.... Leonardo news spoke with him for the first time in Italy in an interview granted to PresaDiretta

[@carolynblakeney966]

Another Q-tip desperately seeking straws to grasp.

[@ghstbird3338]

I have NO idea who he is but I’m listening 👂🏼.

[@changeshifter4852]

Michael Lewis write the book 'The Big Short' about the 2008 financial crises, which then became a movie. I have enjoyed all of his books so far :)

[@maxis5650]

Moneyball and The Big Short are Best Picture Oscar nominated movies which are both based on books written by Mr. Lewis.

[@pie0ful]

Read his book The 5th Risk!!! Amazing and prophetic!!!!!!!!!!

[@freedomlife3623]

Best American non-fiction author in present time.

[@regisintaiwan]

Read his other books. They're great.

[@RuthMTuff]

What a terrifically fascinating and informative interview! Thank you Katie and Michael Lewis.

[@thesecretgardengal]

Another home run interview, Katie! Keep them coming!

[@conors4430]

It’s an amazing book. As usual, Michael has a way of finding the right people in the wrong places within a bad system. So you are glad these people exist but horrified of what they have to put up with which impacts on us all

[@Earwaxfire909]

"Moneyball" is one of my favorites!

[@shelleymartin1451]

Wow! Fascinating guest, fascinating people, a fabulous and timely interview, super stimulating and eye-opening. I can't wait to read his book(s). Thanks, Katie Couric!

[@heatherc2939]

Stoked! Waiting for book to arrive! I hope Lewis addresses that Trump refused the WHO tests, which the rest of the world accepted, forcing CDC to make their own failed tests.

[@guybeauregard]

Great conversation. Love the long form discussion!

[@claireolsen3562]

Love this.. Truth is everything. You have enlightened me, a podcast side kick..what a great idea.

[@myralhf]

There needs to be more accountability for All these agencies...so that there is communication easier to bring all together...

[@walternicolas6927]

Hello Myra how are you doing today ?

[@tuckerbugeater]

They all want to blame Trump. Microbiologist Ralph Baric(UNC scientist/Wuhan lab collaborator), the world's leading coronavirus scholar, one of the greatest experts in the construction of synthetic viruses...: “ You can engineer a virus without leaving any trace . The answers you are looking for, however, can only be found in the archives of the Wuhan laboratory " ->The Wuhan Lab deleted their entire database in September 2019.... Leonardo news spoke with him for the first time in Italy in an interview granted to PresaDiretta

[@davidgalliano84]

Just bought the book on audible

[@bobzeschin3154]

I just put a hold on the Ebook with the LA County Library System. Of my four library cards (City of LA, LA County, Beverly Hills, and Glendale), they get new titles the fastest.

[@robertarusseygoldstein102]

My favorite podcast every time I watch. ; )

[@Sunshine-kq4sw]

Michael Lewis, I’m so sorry for your loss 😔

[@annfuller9044]

Public Health has been starved for funds like all other infrastructure. It does not take a mental giant to know that bridges, public health, roadways, buildings and etc., do NOT just take care of themselves without any kind of infusion in the basic structure of our society and country. I cannot believe that our politicians were this dereliction of duty. The county I live in did have an exemplary system enough so that other states and counties have used it (now defunct) to model their system after. Something will happy if we do not plan and fund our upkeep of basic structure. We should have seen this coming for many years.

[@janewatkins4262]

What a great interview! Listened to the first one, this one even better! Katie, love you and your knowledge. Trying desperately from your “Wake-Up Call” site to get tickets to your Book Tour in Atlanta. No success! Something about the code....? I must meet you? Help! What to do? Will pay $$$!🙏🏼💚

[@taylorw]

The Premonition is illuminating on many levels. It and “Fifth Risk” should serve as the basis for the new civics that is so badly needed in K-12. It ain’t about a Bill. A great contribution to asserting the value of self-governance, IMHO, which has been sadly missing in action.

[@BritBike60]

Brilliant piece……..well done!!!!

[@Am5634]

Great talk. I Learned a lot

[@sandyarmstrong6511]

Good Example in 2014- I thought if I chose a life’s legacy what would I want that to be ? I made my choice instantly for a Philanthropic Institution cause purpose ect. I designed it all out in my head because on my spacial relation work board it was consistently upgraded & updated. But then I decided how what vehicle would it take to get there or make that happen.

[@IanSinclair77]

This was amazing. Well done.

[@beinghere1494]

Thank you for this interview, thank you for your discernment. Simply Thank You 🙏🏽 and Thank You to Michael 🙏🏽

[@JB-th6ej]

Katie - PLEASE tell me the make and model of your eye glasses PLEASE? Buying my first pair and love yours. Thanks so much :)

[@JanetLClark]

This guy is the real deal!

[@josefinamasadao1673]

I feel hopeful now...

[@autumnmeadows4079]

I am amazed that the past administration is not being held responsible.

[@clemencia1131]

Thanks so much for this so much needed book. I always got concerned about the health institutions he mentions where people are admired but do not dispose of the things they need to do the work. Are they really good professionals, or are they just there raising their egos?

[@johnlittle8267]

Very impressive guest and interview!

[@angeykim]

So good!

[@marilynnyoung7026]

Luv you Katie! I'm kinda confused....is Michael Lewis' book 'fiction" or a non fiction book??

[@heatherc2939]

Hi Mari Lynn, it is non fiction.

[@marilynnyoung7026]

@@heatherc2939 thank you! I kinda thought so...but it seemed a bit unclear. I saw 2 interviews with this guy and was STILL confused! Especially when he talks about "characters"...

[@davidwilkie9551]

Weird and mysterious, the previous description of Quantum Mechanics as the best mathematically correct predictable explanation of future possibilities, which when you look at Euler's e-Pi-i 1-0-infinity sync-duration modulation cause-effect of holographic memory associations is very informative about why G'ma has something to remind you of from the positioning system of QM-TIME to make resonant probability connection, the simple kind we hardly notice, but show up to teachers who are focusing on stages of development, ..or mothers and babies.

[@bethm6941]

Hi Nina. So good to see you!

[@karenmiller8090]

Great interview. Thanks!

[@denasharpe2393]

Thank you

[@soaringkite2673]

Fascinating!

[@bodgertime]

Katie, we. need you on Jeopardy 📺

[@scottm2553]

Hey this is a change, Katie normally uploads her videos around 3am PST

[@RaitaNag]

I was supposed to go to Korea. I was the first one to cancel my travel even though no one believed me. I had a strong feeling against this

[@auberthere3737]

In Dec 2019 I got a flu but within 12 hours it went straight to my lungs which was alarming to me. That was my warning that things were changing.

[@dragonfour55]

Read his most recent book - The Premonition: A Pandemic Story. Stunning.

[@stacyyoust]

This has been muy groovy

[@aidanmargarson8910]

The interesting part as Michael said other countries took on board the thinking of how to handle a pandemic, is that it's a curious interaction of American wishfulness and magic belief that caused people to create it and then put it aside. A similar thing happened with Y2K

[@sandicampbell3252]

I read "The Premonition" and think it should be required reading for all Americans. However, I was curious and disappointed about the fact that Mr. Lewis didn't mention the CRISPER connection, when he talked about the shift in how to make vaccines. Was that technology just not around yet? That seemed unclear to me.

[@jerroldbates7015]

The wall has not been kind to Katie.😦

[@Bergmannnice]

Great 👍🏽

[@ellenrosegaynor8063]

"A Shiny Bright Spot" ... Foundation ...

[@hipnicity]

Yes! Hindering science in search of profits!

[@spacecoyote6646]

Michael, I love your books. Katie, I have that same shower curtain.

[@zhoubaidinh403]

Our system is becoming a plutocracy, an idiocracy...and we call ourselves exceptional...and want to export it to the world.

[@D45VR]

we need a word for an obesity based society... gluttonacracy?

[@karenhochberg1691]

Katie, why always a blame question? That's the problem with journalism, sensational, blame game. Tell the full story and you even had the Lewis book to dig for deeper questions.

[@aidanmargarson8910]

Also, see the pacific northwest etc. Michael please do a book about climate modelling and how we are starting to see Methane Hydrates starting to bubble and release and how the melting permafrost is producing Methane in massive amounts

[@makedredd299]

I also dreamt about the world being drowned by the ocean as far as my eye could see, 1 to 3 months after Wuhan lockdowns. Tall trees the height of 10 storey buildings, forests being under water. I was sitting on the roof of a house alone with nowhere to escape. 🌲 🌲 🌲 🌊 🌊 🌊 🏡🧎🏻‍♀️ Was the most realistic and scary dream I’ve had for almost 20 years. Scarier than the Corona pandemic.

[@unfoedonnie7]

Great Convo. However KC seems a little trigger happy with the finger pointing blame game

[@dr.barrycohn5461]

I hate to say it, but Katie Couric is sounding intelligent now that she's away from dumbass network TV. Hat is off to you Katie, great job and great guests!!!

[@clifftanch]

Sort of puts Robert Redfield under a harsher light. Never trust the immaculate resume by itself.

[@DocDanTheGuitarMan]

Do we need an early warning system for zoonosis or much tighter biolab security with a prohibition on GoF research? Or both?

[@sandyarmstrong6511]

So this author said to himself? What would it take to get everyone involved? The answer is everyone only gets involved when everyone is effected & not insulated..

[@valmach1]

Please do an episode covering the evil of The Nondelegation Doctrine

[@crystal4514]

Are you sure this is going to help instead of hurt what's going on right now

[@sakinahabdulbari6884]

There are mullions of people in USA that are first wave covid-19 long-haulers that could not receive a test, and we are still ill, most of us have major damage to organs, even some doctors willnot give us the tests that we need.

[@terryflynn8240]

Watched the whole thing very fun and entertaining sometimes I jump to quickly on occasion.. It is an advantage and a flaw..Bless me Father for I have sinned. Still believe what I said though. Not an indictment on either of you intended .Additionally most likely not executed in polite terms. I can only assume.

[@Marshall_Stacks]

There is NO way W read a book about the 1918 pandemic.

[@rachelstark2391]

Laura read it to him...

[@sammavitae114]

He had the Classics Illustrated edition.

[@sandyarmstrong6511]

Intuitive Visionaries like NOSTREDOMUS CAN SEE LONG DOWN THE ROAD.

[@sandyarmstrong6511]

ALTRUISM REQUIRES GREAT STRENGTH & STAMINA SPANNING BEYOND MOST INDIVIDUALS TIME FRAME CAPACITY. It’s as if being concerned about something through “Gods Eyes” knowing seeing it there maybe not totally defined or in 🧘‍♂️ focus. But the mathematicial potential is obvious catastrophic and eventually culminating.

[@sc000ter000]

hope is in vain as long as the economy survives.

[@marcelo1689]

Oh Michael Lewis, I read all your books and never knew you were so partisan...

[@elizabethhenning778]

Facts have a liberal bias

[@lamdao1242]

Huh??

[@sandyarmstrong6511]

ALTRUISM: Is the missing Component in Mass Society. Example Narcissism, vs. Altruism: OPPOSITES LIKE GEMINI & SAGITTARIUS ♐️.

[@knightmarecityk]

They may not have an interest, but even more importantly, they just don't have the ability to accurate!y assess risk.

[@zachducey9291]

You said not twice

[@julieannmyers8714]

Michael is brilliant. Katie not so much.

[@belkyhernandez8281]

@@kc8605 Agreed. She read and understands the material and does a good job of summarizing for our understanding and prompting him along to keep the interview going.

[@julieannmyers8714]

I wrote a longer comment that somehow didn't post. I find the framing of her questions in this case to belie a specific bias. I don't think Couric lacks intelligence. But to claim she exhibits brilliance is much too kind... or something else. IMHO. If no one here can discern the underlying assumptions of her framing, I'll be more than happy to leave the discussion to those who find nothing to question.

[@eileenmc4746]

@@maxwellsmart7928 bingo. I never like her asking parents of deceased on that morning show how they feel in fake attitude of empathy tho...her Palin gotcha made up for it

[@AvsFan32]

@@julieannmyers8714 okay ya snob

[@Marshall_Stacks]

@@julieannmyers8714 Don't let the door hit ya!