Michael Moore Presents: A Livestream Discussion and Q&A With Extinction Rebellion

[@wendysgarden4283]

I admire your optimism, Mr. Moore. I lived off the grid for 12 years, with very limited power--one 75 watt solar panel, no running water, no phone, no internet, one LED light, no new clothes bought, a month between car trips to get food. I imagine everyone else making comments here couldn't do that. Simply could not or would not. There are people who do live like that by choice, but they aren't on social media. I wasn't. That's the problem I can't see a way around. Human weakness, greed, laziness. Not excusing myself--I only lasted 12 years, after all. (though now I grow all my own food, and I didn't then.) Funny thing was, living on $300/month like that, interacting with birds and bears more than with people? I was never happier. I was free. It was joyous.

[@PistonAvatarGuy]

How did you earn a living?

[@wendysgarden4283]

@@PistonAvatarGuy Good question. I owned a house. I sold the house, quit my job. It was war tax protesting. I could not, would not pay money to kill innocent children in Iraq. "Not in my name" our signs had said, but I saw how ridiculous that slogan was. They were doing in my name, and with my MONEY. Ergo. So I lived off the proceeds of the house sale, in a camper, living on unimproved federal land, a month here, a month there, moving it as little as possible. It was a hiking accident when I broke my foot that changed my mind. (also the war was over, though there will always be wars, eh?) I thought, crap, what if that had been a femur? Now I earn a living as a novelist, but I'm in bed with Jeff GD Bezos to do so. (not literally, of course, thank heavens! lol.) And back to home ownership, but I bought a house with enough land to grow my own food and have hens. I also fish.

[@anitam241]

@@wendysgarden4283 Thanks for sharing your story. Glad you lived off grid as much as you could. Was it an RV or Tiny Home? And if I understand correctly, you're a novelist for Amazon? What would you recommend for others who do not want their money associated with corporations?

[@Andres-ow2sn]

You can grow lots of fruits and vegetables in tropical area and really live off grid + iPad .. I’m in the north east and jealous of Florida. But maybe one day,. Who knows..for now I will enjoy this upcoming summer...

[@rockestee]

Wendy's Garden wow really interesting, thank you for your heartfelt personal war protest, and sharing your living off the grid experience and why you came back, wishing you stay safe well and happy.

[@laluba3603]

I found this quote, somewhere that I don't recall. "It is easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled." Mark Twain

[@briandavonne]

Yep, can be applied in a lot of directions!

[@Atalanta1313]

Your critics never hit on what for me was the most horifying part of the film,, that Forrests Are being leveled and burned as “bio fuel”!

[@stl1321]

It's even worse than that, so it's no surprise, whole forests are being burnt down to make farming land in the Amazon, Borneo,etc

[@profkrumdieck]

Many years ago there were a lot of researchers who did modelling and analysis of all different kinds of ideas and configurations for wood fired power generation - and the research was clear that it doesn't make sense and is dangerous. I for one wasn't even aware that the US and Canada had lost their mind and built these things. The environmental movements did let us down by not being on top of that and getting the word out. It also shows that good research work is not effective at informing policy makers.

[@brentgreeff1115]

@@profkrumdieck - Nuclear is the only viable solution

[@fotogwaii]

​@@brentgreeff1115#simplynotanoption

[@brentgreeff1115]

@@fotogwaii - and why not?

[@EricBurrone]

Like you, I'm a life long environmentalist who has serious concerns about the focus and efficacy of many elements in the environmental movement. Frankly, there are parts of your film I disagree with, but I'm extremely glad a person with your visibility is calling more attention to the facts that demanding permanent growth is fundamentally unsustainable, that climate change is just one piece of a global ecological crisis, that alternative energy (which, ftr, I'm a strong supporter of) is not a panacea or without concerning issues, and that we have to talk about population as a fundamental part of the environmental challenge. We've seen with the presidential race what kind of damage head-in-the-sand denial of hard truths does, especially when we lack the courage to look at the game tape with an eye to improving the odds for our own team. Thank you for stimulating *the* conversation we should be having.

[@profkrumdieck]

There is a new approach which doesn't require to be on a side - kzbin.info/www/bejne/kJyUYql_YpyWsKc #transitionengineering

[@EricBurrone]

@@profkrumdieck Thanks. I'll check it out.

[@brentgreeff1115]

Lookup "Alex Cannara and Ripu Malhotra" - very convincing

[@YassirYHamid]

Thank you Michael and Jeff for the tremendous work you put into this movie!! One of the few honest voices left out there ..

[@robertcallaghan4029]

In 30 years emissions went up 50% and renewable energy reached 4% of total global energy use. Only 4% of animals are wild, 96% are human and livestock. There are 25 billion chickens on earth. *THE END OF THE WORLD -> Rated G* | Why we have to cut fossil use 55% in 10 yrs to save earth. www.reddit.com/r/environment/comments/gcqppl/the_end_of_the_world_rated_g/

[@politicalfoolishness7491]

100% agree - this was the REAL Inconvenient Truth film. People should always re-evaluate things. It doesn't matter if one made a wrong evaluation in the past. To re-evaluate in light of new information is making progress.

[@lrvogt1257]

The film is being used by right-wing climate deniers all over the internet to club all environmentalists. It's like it was written by climate deniers 10 years ago. kzbin.info/www/bejne/kJ6xm39-h6aDaLc

[@robertcallaghan4029]

@@lrvogt1257 *Phil and Loki Fight* High Fives For Phil lokisrevengeblog.wordpress.com/2020/05/05/links-backup/

[@robertcallaghan4029]

@Kerry Wallum minus food ver www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/ge2e59/just_another_conspiracy_best_ignored/

[@markdunlea4546]

I agree that capitalism and the drive for profits is a core problem with climate change. So why not be clearer that we need to replace it, say with democratic eco-socialism? The movie hurts itself with so much wrong data on renewables; you say you were trying to make a different point that makes current data irrelevant but the silly wrong data killed that bigger message. The issue of overpopulation is far more nuanced than addressed in the movie and population control within a capitalist system is certainly not a solution. The lack of solutions articulated in the movie is a real problem IMO. Also, needed to be clearer as to the role of fosssil fuel companies in the corruption of the political system and preventing real solutions. Yes, biomass is bad but most climate activists have already come to the conclusion. This seems a movie in a time warp from a decade ago.

[@GroovyVideo2]

Mark I totally agree with you

[@G0DofRock]

Sure I was thinking the same critiques like "Why didn't they cover all these other topics and how it's all connected!?" but seriously, people are really ignorant and some are mad the film covered more than one or two central ideas. The people that will enjoy this movie are the ones that understand how everything is connected, and can reconcile the limitations of a 90 min film, which is NOT meant to fully or even inform you half of the information out there. You gotta do that yourself. Sure humans are strangely complex creatures who manipulate and control each other, but it still partly our responsibility to develop a sense of awareness and learn to react to threats that endanger us, whether it's physical, psychological, social, political or governmental systems.

[@G0DofRock]

@1:07 About extinction. I think the suppression we've seen in so many hollywood movies and throughout history where the people have been kept from the truth have solidified some of the basic observatory 'tipping points' and indicators of disaster (aside from personal experience). Like, nobody is going to take this seriously until _people_ are almost all affected, and we see the global population _dropping_ daily on the news.

[@ramshackleevents]

The absolute visceral reality and true depth that extinction rebellion has at its heart is revealed just after half way through. XR have actual deep grief at the centre of the movement because we do not hide from the truth or sugar the truth or squint at the truth. XR look at it head on. Embrace it. And grieve. Deeply grieve. When Clare Farrell asks the three men about grief... they are completely thrown. They struggle to answer. They haven’t been on that journey yet, long enough to come out the other side and hold their grief in a place that is real but which allows you to move with it and take action WITH it.

[@wendysgarden4283]

There's also guilt. As long as we live, we have a carbon impact. And I'm not willing to die before my time (though I'm willing to take death when in comes, I think, and not unnaturally extend it with drugs, pacemakers, or the like.) Nor do I recommend suicide as a solution, though use of birth control is one.

[@LolaBgcps]

I think you/she may be onto something! Avoidance of uncomfortable/painful feelings is a thing. I would've thought the trained social worker would have at least talked about the Elizabeth Kubler- Ross's 5 stages of grief (where many seem to be stuck in denial), but somehow it seems none of them considered the grieving process. I hope they do now!

[@AudioPervert1]

Extinction Rebellion, 350.org, Michael E Mann, Bill Mckibben and the likes are regular hierarchical organizations, mostly white, living off donations + mooching youth and teen goodwill + burning petrol and gas through and through in their daily lives ... beware of these chameleons of climate ... Their newsletters itself speak of the hoodwink... They never publish their own carbón-footprint nor emissions instead heckling subscribers for donations through anxiety based newsletters every week ... The Green New Deal is a corporate coup by all means ...

[@gargoyle14]

Thank you for lending your name to this documentary! I really appreciate the honesty of the film and calling out the fake "environmentalists" and the billionaires looking to profit off so-called "green energy". We need honest science and to reduce our consumption first and foremost. Thank you

[@lrvogt1257]

It's filled with dishonesty and being used by right-wingers en mass to discredit all environmental and climate action. kzbin.info/www/bejne/kJ6xm39-h6aDaLc

[@Memoiana]

If you saw this documentary and thought it was honest you are seriously uninformed on questions of power generation and energy consumption.. the documentary is full of misleading info. Wind and solar works in many countries that are 100% dependent on fossil fuels if used intelligently (good siting, transparent permitting, proper environmental studies etc) It competes on price, it competes on efficiency (load factor) and it is definitely emitting less carbon than coal/oil/gas. Nuclear is a great energy source to add to the mix as well.

[@fotogwaii]

@@Memoiana #simplynotanoption

[@Memoiana]

Anonny Maus #yourreplymakesnosense

[@Oscar656523]

One way to reduce consumption without directly telling people to consume less is to restrict advertising. It may be hard politically to tell people to NOT buy, but we can stop telling people TO buy. I don't think many people would be politically opposed to cutting back on advertising, especially in public places for starters

[@wendysgarden4283]

creative idea. But the reason cell phones proliferated was not because of ads. It was "cool people" in movies and TV shows having them, then people at home coveting looking that important. Kill your TV is a good individual solution.

[@piccadelly9360]

If I read in the comments here, I can see that people are familiar with the topic and they also know what to do. The magic word is minimalism. The problem is that it will simply kill capitalism based on consumption. Either way, we have to slowly separate from capitalism if we want our children to have a future

[@bobjacobs8643]

Sounds idealistic, but it will never happen. Most of the world is not going to do with less than they have now.

[@Michael-yl2iq]

Separate from capitalism to what? Capitalism is simply people owning their own labor and industry as opposed to government owned.

[@angelocapozzi6978]

The film clearly makes the point that we cannot continue to live the paradigm of infinite growth on a finite planet. We have infinite consciousness, to make friends with our own mortality (in humor I am not personally there yet). This conversion in consciousness is going to bring major pain to us all, and we see this tension contributing to increasing violence on both an individual and state level. Please get the luminaries of nonviolence on your program like Michael Nagler, Mel Duncan, and David Hartsough. This can be of great support to groups like Extinction Rebellion.

[@dafluf]

Bollocks. We as a species have always had the ability to delineate between mortality and self-interest. That's why 100s of millions of corpses have been converted to fertiliser throughout history for every metaphysical excuse you can think of. Why stop now?

[@alexcarter8807]

The most surprising thing to me is that this film has been such a surprise to so many people.

[@raynic1173]

it's a surprise of misinformation please do your self a favor and view an analysis: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kJ6xm39-h6aDaLc

[@brentgreeff1115]

Yes - some of the information is old & designed to make an emotion impact rather than being the most current - but its not new - Alex Cannara and Ripu Malhotra have been saying the same thing for a long time. According to them we would need to triple global production of steel to replace fossil fuels with renewables. - What would be the point of that? - The only real viable energy source is Nuclear - Solar costs too much in raw materials & gives us too little.

[@brentgreeff1115]

@bcstractor - Would take 1 billion tons of steel to replace fossil fuels with “renewables”. 1.85 tonnes of CO2 is emitted for every tonne of steel produced. The steel industry generates between 7% and 9% of direct emissions from the global use of fossil fuel. - is that a lie?

[@brentgreeff1115]

@bcstractor - If you think nuclear is gonna screw up the planet - then you are stupid.

[@brentgreeff1115]

@bcstractor - oh yea? - how many people died in those accidents?

[@thomasbeltran5417]

It is so hard for people to handle the truth especially when money is involved

[@PistonAvatarGuy]

@Augustijn Van Rode It's overall message is perfectly sound, renewables can't save us from global warming without causing a huge range of new problems.

[@Boadicea6]

@@PistonAvatarGuy But it's coming from progressive channels too, who had experts on, who said he used old data and old images from over a decade ago, a lot has changed in solar energy etc. It's not an opinion, I haven't seen enough of it, to do so, but this came from credible sources, not some corporate news network with an agenda. I love Moore's work and probebly will like this one, but it's not just ppl with an agenda, who say the data used in the movie was old and not all that accurate. IDK, it will require doing your own fact checking and that's hard with docs like this, if you are not that educated on it, so why doubt what he sais with this movie, he has been right. Time will tell, I guess 😷☠️☠️☠️🤫

[@PistonAvatarGuy]

@@Boadicea6 I've seen/read all of the critiques of the film, they don't even address the main message of the film, they just point to minuscule improvements in solar and wind technologies in an attempt to discredit it. - You're not understanding the problem, there is NO ONE in charge who wants to actually fight global warming, not the progressives, not the conservatives, they're only interested in making money. You're only seeing people who are upset that their cash flow might be under threat.

[@markhemsworth2670]

@@PistonAvatarGuy are you suggesting that the world can't operate on capitalism if we want to keep environmental issues in check?

[@PistonAvatarGuy]

@@markhemsworth2670 That's more of a fact, not a suggestion.

[@nanamiamai]

One thing that has been very much on my mind and that Clare touched on is the question that by reducing production-capitalist consumer frenzy - we would lose jobs... there are millions of jobs to be created , jobs that we need to invent imagine create not only to survive this present but to think of a different future a better one for all species on this planet in restoring eco systems, just cleaning the mess of the last 100 years alone would give millions of people years of work .. anyway thanks to all involved in crucial times for not giving up Keep strong we’ll do it!

[@peterazlac1739]

Please list the jobs you have in mind apart from the production of fairy dust?

[@nanamiamai]

Peter Jackson fairy dust? What is that?

[@peterazlac1739]

@@nanamiamai You must have had a very limited childhood if you do not know! But in the context of my use it is something that only exists in the imagination, like your millions of new jobs such as were not greated by the wind and solar industries. If I an wrong and they do let us have a list starting with the first twenty that are going to provide the incomes families need to exist. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hJKuZ5aPob-Lm9U efairies.com/view-all-products/fairy-dust/

[@maryyuncken2271]

Sorry about earlier comment that didn't pay homage to Jeff. You are an amazing man that is a leading light in our fight to save Mother Earth. Well done at dispelling my illusions on the direction green energy has taken. I've been an avid recycling advocate for 30 years until 2 years ago l found Australias dirty solution was to send our contaminated plastic and paper to China to deal with it or buried it. Heart breaking! I've embraced anticonsumerism preferring to used to new. I recently bought a house and was intending to go solar panels and battery installation to lessen my footprint. Not sure what to do now? Thank you for letting me know this would also have big footprint. Thanks to everyone involved in this life-changing expose. Stay safe wonderful people

[@greyhnd001]

beware. Micheal has a bunch of exon stock so he has a major conflict of interest. Obviously he would try to discredit solar and wind power production. You always have to look out for conflict of interests. I learned that when studying research on the plant based diet. I lot of research is paid for by the Agribusiness it is testing. So they pay the researchers only if they come out with what they want. Therefor a conflict of interest.

[@wendysgarden4283]

you stay safe too. Part of the solution for you is better insulation, low-energy appliances, and don't turn on heat or A/C until it's very uncomfortable. Wear a swimsuit when it's hot and pile on the sweaters when it's cold. Reduce and reuse are more important than recycling, for sure. Good job on your part!

[@torifmdox]

There is some claims here, that the stats concerning solar panels, wind, are wrong and outdated, as compared to current production efficiency. Well, Michael Schellenberger addressed the renewable energy issue on TedXTalks a few months ago, with updated info. He concludes what most responsible environmentalists do: Wind and Solar are NOT the solution, due to intermittency, poor energy density. I cannot help thinking about Germany, currently having 30.000 wind turbines, and facing massive protests for additional expansion of wind turbines on land. Instead, they buy permissions to raise these monsters in other countries, which requires ruining a lot of unspoiled nature, incurring huge energy transmission loss, huge investments in extra grid infrastructure. And still, they are consuming coal like there was no tomorrow..... It will become worse, as Angela Merkel's decision to phase out the remaining nuclear power plants will cause even more critical energy supply shortage. Go nuclear, or shut down life as we know it, if relying on renewables..

[@vanchopski1]

Monsters. Lol Turn down the melodrama. Windmills are less monstrous that gas and oil platforms or fracking or I'd say any form of fossil fuel production. And yes they seem to have based the entire premise of the film on the state of the renewable energy industry from 1995. Pretty stupid.

[@fotogwaii]

#simplynotanoption

[@torifmdox]

ausud If tou live next to one, you´ll know what a monster is like. Low frequency noise penetrating every inch of your body. Causing cardiac problems, insomnia. Try before you buy ..

[@vanchopski1]

@@torifmdox I don't doubt that at least some wind turbine installations have vibration problems but referring to them as monsters is frankly hysterical and only muddies the waters, much as this dud of a film does, as we search for sustainable sources of energy.

[@robo2251]

The invisible elephant in the room, which even this film was afraid to mention, is advanced design nuclear power. AOC - even her! - says they are worth having a look at. So does Dr. James Hansen. People keep thinking about existing nuclear plants. But these are no more than scaled-up reactors from Admiral Rickover's submarines of the 1950s. The new designs are smaller, use less fuel, and are much safer (even though the old ones were actually quite good). Some can even use the spent fuel now in storage as their own fuel. And a single nuclear plant on a few acres can supply power to a million people 24/7 with zero emissions. Only then will electric vehicles make sense. People are terrified of radioactivity. Yet it is vastly easier to contain than other hazards. Look at the facts here as well. It's the least evil.

[@rd264]

the 4th gen adv nuclear designs that Hansen usually refers to is based on much later design than the reactors in Navy subs. Pres. Clinton unaccountably canceled the US 4th gen pilot and since then although there have been many new designs there has been little backing and alot of lobbying against nuclear so the US nuclear industry is almost dead. As the Film says the realities of the energy situation in the World and the US in particular are grim and the 4th gen case is just one facet of the bigger world resource abuse problem.

[@mykalsarakula3652]

THANK GOD THE YOUNG ARE INTERESTED

[@sunpwrd]

Only if they actually do something will they matter. Right now they are all driving gas-burning cars and paying the oil companies billions of dollars for the privilege. What they should do is trade in for an EV and stop generating all that pollution and giving money to our enemies. Even Michael Moore drives a gas car. So does the director, Gibbs. Why are they claiming to be environmentalists while doing the very thing they are whining about? Doesn't that make them huge hypocrites?

[@willwalthamforest8706]

@@sunpwrd we're all hypocrites to some extent though right? This narrative is how the systems protects itself: everyone is put into one of either two camps. 1) all those non-flying, no-kid, no car vegans or living directly of the land etc who are perfect eco-saints but so few in numbers and easy to marginalise and ignore. 2) everyone else, who is living a normal life and not an eco-saint. As soon as they speak up about wanting a liveable future they'll told they're hypocrites who have no right to question anything. That's simple divide and rule mechanism by which the system protects itself. Think it through and decide if you want to perpetuate that.

[@cosmiccreator]

which god do we thank?

[@sunpwrd]

@@willwalthamforest8706 All I want is for people to stop polluting when they use energy. That's not dividing people. If I point out that the filmmakers are hypocrites for using the very dirty energy their movie is supposedly against, then that is dividing people so that they can easily see the problem and compare and contrast their own behavior. Too many people don't do anything to reduce their energy use. If it takes shaming them to act, then I'll shame them. Most of Moore's followers are guilty of the very crimes outlined in the film. They almost all drive gas cars and they almost all use dirty energy to power their homes. The elimination of dirty energy is easy these days. That people are too lazy, or ignorant, to take this step is the problem.

[@alokraj3128]

Undoubtedly global weather has recently improved. Did this follow reduction of carbon dioxide or that of particulates? It cannot be the former - there has only been a pause in carbon dioxide increase, not a reduction. Ergo the concern of the greens with carbon dioxide levels is misdirected. They should concern themselves with particulate emission - not fossil fuels. But then this approach may not be remunerative for them.

[@rorylee3582]

😂 yes it was cold last week so climate change is a scam. You're a vegan.

[@alokraj3128]

@@rorylee3582 No. I understand weather at one place at one time does not represent change in global climate change. But for three months now world over we see clearer skies, birds, etc - all because particulates and aerosols are absent. So could the greens not focus on this low hanging fruit instead of focusing on carbondioxide=global warming hypothesis, which has not been proven by any of your models for two decades? Of course, you can take up the carbon hate campaign later.

[@rorylee3582]

@@alokraj3128 no you dont understand. There's been no change in the climate. 3 months isnt even nearly enough to constitute a change in climate.

[@alokraj3128]

@@rorylee3582 Cant waste time on you.

[@rorylee3582]

@@alokraj3128 definitely true. Use you time wisely to research what your talking about so you dont look like an idiot in the future. :Climate is the long-term average of weather, typically averaged over a period of 30 years.[1"

[@moniquecollins9311]

Michael, you are right! We need a movement, a plan!! I am a leader and a team player. I am ready to make a difference and make change happen in favor or the people!! I am a Michael and Bernie fan! I'm ready to go!!

[@ChooseCompassion]

Monique Collins ME TOO! ✊🏼

[@anitam241]

I'm a Bernie and Moore fan too but alas, Bernie has suspended his campaign. I'm still planning on voting for him in the next primaries to get enough of his delegates but the issue thereafter is he doesn't have a chance to win in November. Do you think you could help Howie Hawkins from the Green Party get on the ballot? He has similar policies like Bernie.

[@markhemsworth2670]

Do you realize that the documentary misrepresented all the facts? For example, the cradle to grave life cycle of solar panel energy generates 25g per kilowatt-hour as compared to 1000g per kilowatt-hour for coal?

[@sunpwrd]

Since you guys are hung ho to help, and since Moore and Gibbs didn't give you any instruction at all as to what to do, I'll take the opportunity to suggest an effective action. Climate change is caused by the burning of coal, oil, and gas. You power your homes with electricity generated from a mix of coal, gas, hydro, wind, and solar. You can now buy clean energy from large solar arrays, or wind farms, and have your utility deliver it. Doing this eliminates all of the pollution from powering your home. By the way, it costs the same or lower, depending on where you live. And if you have a good roof for solar, it's always cost effective to install a PV array. It's an excellent investment. If you drive a car, start planning on trading for an EV, either new or used. I've seen really good Nissan Leafs sell for $5,000 and less. If you do both of these things, you'll eliminate over 90% of the pollution for which you are responsible. That's a big deal. And since the oil, coal, and gas industries spend over a billion dollars helping elect conservatives to office, you will eliminate your money from being used for that purpose.

[@PistonAvatarGuy]

@@sunpwrd BUY MORE STUFF!!!!

[@evolutionofmaggie]

Why rely on organizations at all? Each person in the developed world has the power to drastically reduce our consumption. That is where the conversation should be.

[@wendysgarden4283]

all real solutions are individual solutions. Such as...Don't have kids. reduce consumption. Repair the old rather than buy new. Live with a couple of stains on the t-shirt. Don't turn on the A/C until it's over 90F inside, and don't turn on the heat until it's under 50F. But people aren't even willing to do those things.

[@evolutionofmaggie]

@Resurgens I consume much less than the average American.

[@niveajones6400]

We are a world of addicts; nothing is ever enough.

[@inorganicintelligence-IoI]

Idaho Transfer on KZbin: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gKWvi2ula9KegK8 1973

[@AvivaSingsOut]

cause we don't feel good enough.. we are all shining stars

[@gargoyle14]

Well said!

[@globalmuffin2]

it;s true brother. michael moore is right this time. the youth are too young to understand.

[@MrJm323]

Civilization and all of the good things we take for granted (like you, typing a message posted on the internet) wasn't made by people who said, "We have enough! Let's stop here!" At least people like the Amish aren't hypocrites. They live what they preach.

[@catherinekasmer9905]

Fantastic discussion! Jeff G is so right. The bankers and financial elites don’t want to us to talk about the utter injustice and destructiveness of our consumer driven capitalist economic system.

[@rrosaseconda]

I listened to a very shoddy negative critique of Planet on NPR this a.m. It was the film-maker/actor Josh Fox. IMHO Fox has condensed his "crit" into a string of predominantly UNSUBSTANTIATED claims, punctuated with a few cogent & likely accurate claims.

[@raynic1173]

I found this film interesting until I viewed an analysis, I changed my mind, this film is very, very, very misleading. See: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kJ6xm39-h6aDaLc

[@PistonAvatarGuy]

@@raynic1173 For every 1 unit of energy that you put into solar, you get 1.6 units back, that's not something which can even begin to displace fossil fuels. The people attacking this film are the problem.

[@conradbo1]

Very interesting conversation. I agree with a lot but also disagree with a lot.

[@globalman]

The film is heartbreaking if one love's Nature, other species and this blue planet. It is devastating to live with a ruling class of liars, cheats, deceivers, criminal minds who are simply greedy for wealth and power with the goal to oppress and subjugate all humanity. When I heard the word "ENOUGH" my mouth dropped because that is a question I have been asking people since decades, especially the rich and millionaires. Also famous people I have known from Hollywood. No One had a reply, many became irritated or angry with me. My question always was "how much is enough"" "What amount of money is Enough?" Michael at some point you will need to pass the torch to the younger generation and to those who cannot be bought or those will not pander to the elite powers. You are being diplomatic to the organisations you expose. The fact is they have all betrayed their goals. I had a battle with WWF and Green Peace already 1986 because of obscene wastes of money on administration and using tons of paper to keep soliciting people every month in the post who were already yearly members as I was. They lost me as did several others bit by bit. Now your film has shown me none can be trusted. Collecting money is rubbish. Action, aggressive action is what is needed. Human beings must give up some of their egos, arrogance, creature comforts and addictions to toys and gadgets. But I have no hope that anything will happen until it is too late and then people will be crying and moaning terrified finally confronted with their EXTINCTION. I will be dead by then, happily. It will be the 6th Extinction. The planet will renew itself when humanity is gone. Fact is that people have been warning of these potential problems since the 1930's. As a child during the 1950's there were science and environment educational programs on tele before tele became the tool to dumb down a nation. These programs all spoke of what might come if we did not change. I began to become very concious of not wasting or abusing nature and the planet. After a lifetime I know all my efforts were for nothing in the face of predatory capitalism. I don't regret trying but it is totally disheartening.

[@alokraj3128]

At the root of all human problems is overpopulation, exacerbated by competitive over-breeding between muslims & christians and proselytisation by them among destitute societies. When, as now, this competition is controlled unevenly, both these supremacist abrahamic religions cheat, in the hope of eventual dominance. After Covid-19 all nations must uniformly outlaw proselytisation by charities & NGO's, and disincentivize 3rd & subsequent births per father AND/OR family. This will also release preachers from competitive make-believe-employment and force them to eventually contribute to their national GDP Overbreeding is a tribal strategy to get even with the "other guys". Today, proselytisation by one tribe is neutralised by overbreeding by another- so they are twin interconnected evils working on positive feedback. How come the "Wise Greens" who never tire pointing out to "Ignorant Deniers" that climate knows no tribal boundaries, fail to notice that competitive population growth is at the heart of all our troubles?

[@globalman]

@@alokraj3128 While I have long stated that at the heart of most of humanity's miseries is religion in all its forms, wars, murder, over population yes. But let us remember that China and India are not Abrahamic religions and have the largest populations. Further the Jewish people never multiplied or made the demand to multiply to the degree of Christianity or Islam. It has been a long time since Christianity, particularly Catholicism has promoted large families. Only Islam has been not only encouraged but ordered to multiply in order to conquer the planet. That I was told by a Muslim man 1978 while I was in the middle east. It seems he was right given what is happening in the western world. Also overpopulation is convenient for the USA form of predatory capitalism. Consumption is paramount and without consumers the market falls.

[@elle7238]

I'm a big fan of Vandana Shiva and recommend all to read her books and watch her on youtube. It was refreshing to listen to Clare Farrell and I have to admit that I was dubious about Extinction Rebellion in the past - after this, and watching the film, I've learnt I need to rethink period and look at what I can do as an individual for my families younger generation to survive. Powerful stuff - thank you.

[@piccadelly9360]

me too

[@raynic1173]

DO NOT TAKE THIS MOVIE FOR FACE VALUE, do yourself a favor and see a fact driven analysis: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kJ6xm39-h6aDaLc

[@piccadelly9360]

@@raynic1173 "There is something in the water" as the song says. You Americans have to stick together and not let them drift apart. Everyone knows what is good and what is bad, and you have to choose the best one

[@coolprof1951]

Michael, we are behind you 100+%.....keep the pressure on!!!

[@HolodeckArcade]

While I certainly care about the environment, I have always considered myself a climate realist. In other word, we have to balance the climate concern with human need. But trading the burning of fossil fuels for the burning of trees and labeling that green or renewable is ridiculous and dangerous. Burning fossils fuels might be bad, but burning trees gets rid of your natural CO2 scrubbers while putting out CO2 and old school pollution, it is like burning the candle at both ends

[@wendysgarden4283]

"Want" is not "need." You may want to turn on the air conditioning when it's 90F outside, but you do not need to. You may want an iPhone, but you do not need one.

[@alokraj3128]

Try to treat the disease instead of dwelling on symptoms. At the root of all human problems is overpopulation, exacerbated by competitive over-breeding between muslims & christians and proselytisation by them among destitute societies. When, as now, this competition is controlled unevenly, both these supremacist abrahamic religions cheat, in the hope of eventual dominance. After Covid-19 all nations must uniformly outlaw proselytisation by charities & NGO's, and disincentivize 3rd & subsequent births per father AND/OR family. This will also release preachers from competitive make-believe-employment and force them to eventually contribute to their national GDP

[@jamesellis3535]

Clare Farrell mentioned that Citizens Assemblies would be convened like the jury system of randomly selected citizens. If selected can a citizen decline or is it compulsory as in jury service? After an assembly has been given all the information for a particular decision what happens if they vote against what Extinction Rebellion wants to achieve? Is that decision respected or will they just reconvene with a fresh random selection until they get the decision they want? If that is the case you may as well just have a dictatorship.

[@thenewdavinci1852]

Conservative here. Thank you mr moore. A great help and hope for the humanity.

[@bajawkamare]

In a world where "it is easier to conceive of the demise of the planet rather than capitalism", this movie thrashes the only clear headed solution - renewable energy - to bring GHG emissions down rapidly. Here are some stats comparing renewable energy with fossil fuels from a life cycle analysis of GHG emissions: Of the renewable technologies, wave and photovoltaic power present on average the highest contribution to GHG emissions with 55.9 and 50.9 g CO2-equivalent per kWh, respectively i.e. 56 grams of GHGs are emitted to produce 1 kilo watt hour of energy from wave power. They slam wind power in the movie and on average it is the lowest GHG emissions contributor; 14.4 g CO2-equivalent per kWh for onshore locations and 18.4 g CO2-equivalent per kWh for offshore locations. In contrast, the lowest GHG emissions for 1 KWh of fossil fuels is from natural gas, and amounts to about 450 grams per KWh. Coal is around 900 grams per KWh. We also find out in this discussion, that a movie that puports to address over-consumption, didn't even bother to research "degrowth". For someone who has always waited excitedly for a new Michael Moore movie, this was severly dissapointing. I wish Moore had spent more time providing quality assurance over the making of this documentary.

[@vickishook9715]

Jeff and Michael brilliant. I appreciate the platform for grief, we know the planet has been in hospis since the 80s.

[@rudyinthesky4967]

The problems we live with today are the direct result of yesterdays "solutions". What will tomorrows problems be with our planned conversion to ever new technologies? Our main problem is that we cannot grow endlessly on a finite planet. In other words capitalism must evolve or die.

[@Spalpeenz]

It is a further shock to the system with all that is going on. Thanks for pointing out what is happening though and well done to you and your team. We need to find a genuine working solution to the problems pointed out by you. We need good ideas other than stopping consumerism in it's tracks cos that is not going to happen.

[@friendsandindustry]

For real though: People have to stop ending their segments with "Wash your hands, we're in this together." It's getting old, and frankly I'm tired of hearing it. Love the film...

[@cosmiccreator]

ye but we should wash our hands and stay safe tho.. ;)

[@wendysgarden4283]

if you're at home alone, there's no need to wash your hands more than normal. Post-toilet, before prepping a meal. If you're at home alone, no reason to disinfect all surfaces and door knobs--only when you come back from a shopping trip. Because if you touch your nose, then the doorknob, and touch it again 5 hours later, those are your germs. It's like that science class thing some high school science teachers make you do. Spit into a cup. Now drink it. Kids all say "ewwww!" But it's your spit. Every germ in there was in you. : )

[@friendsandindustry]

@@cosmiccreator The information given on how to "prevent" Covid19 is incredibly basic. But because we still seek validation from people we deem better than us, the door opens for condescending and redundant language passing as kindness and wisdom.

[@ladyfaye8248]

All 'strategies' are to no avail without the human spiritual evolution to 'DEATH ACCEPTANCE'. The FACT of 'Total Interconnection' proves how any existence always exists. In short, we live forever, and NO this is not religious twaddle, but fact. Therefore, no need to fear death, but to welcome death. Without fear of death we no longer need to greedily plunder Earth resources. Solution.

[@ladyfaye8248]

@Marten Dekker The trouble with trying to talk of this subject, death acceptance, is that it needs more space and time than available in comments. I have done my best to explain my thinking on this on my channel (11 months ago), and indeed, I do not use the term 'live forever' there as it is so easily misinterpreted, as happened here. My fault really.

[@justgivemethetruth]

This is great ... Moore is teaching people ... of course, that is what needs to happen in America. We are so stupid and lazy.

[@justgivemethetruth]

You know I think I have to take that back a little bit ... it is not Americans' problem what is going on in American and the world - it is what would be expected if you directed all your energy and ideas towards removing the power, the rights, the democracy, the justice, etc from the American system - it has been taken over by the same people historically that have always caused problems in the world - everywhere they go. And of course they learned the lessons of history. now easier than ever, they know how to screw over any system in the world and take over with enough money or military power. Is the idea of a country running the world purely on its ability to generate military power right for the world, and does it also consequently bring all the other problems of history and collapsing civization with it? The whole system is literally dying for a major change - and not a wrong move, or a trivial token change that lets things keep getting worse. It has to end now, and here, that is the point of the movie.

[@marissadower-morgan3313]

If you look at Most CAPITALISM, it is based on predatory business concepts , or selling people things they do not really need ( most of what we consume is unnecessary or entertainment based ). This country was more stable, and less wasteful, when it was primarily an Agricultural life. Most people had a farm and some ability to scratch out a life , with out a lot of pollution. Even our clothes were made from plants or animals . So perhaps we need to reconsider this way of life . The Amish know a few things . Stay close to the land . Know how to survive with your own hands .

[@ladyfaye8248]

The 'suffering' is the thing, rather than 'extinction'. In death we no longer suffer.

[@grace1946]

Lady Ellah some believe in reincarnation and don’t want to come back to desolation

[@ladyfaye8248]

@@grace1946 I see no reason why anyone should return to desolation, in death.

[@saccitygrl01]

Thank you Lady Ellah for this comment. When I gave much thought as to what to do in response to all this dire reality of ecological collapse, that was the only course that seemed a reasonable and relevant option. Work to ease the suffering as much as one can as this house of cards crumbles. Unfortunately there are those who aspire to drive jaguars.

[@MrForestExplorer]

No "environmentalist" thinks that THE ONLY story or issue is "Climate Change". No one thinks THE ONLY solution is "renewable energy". These filmmakers are disappointing.

[@gc6854]

I see the truth in this movie BUT we need a roadmap of what will work so we can start.

[@christinearmington]

G C Just Have a Think 🤔

[@globalmuffin2]

road map: 1. ban frankenstein meat and beyond poison. 2. reduce energy consume so we can preserve the food industry. 3. incentify people to make less children, with housing and other tax cuts. 4. put pressure on the overpopulated countries to make them adopt the one child per family law. 5. improve the efficiency of the solar panels so we don't need all the arable land to deploy them. 6. if the oil is indeed depleted, switch to renewable energy gradually and not like a bull. 7. conserve the minerals needed for the construction of the solar panels. metals and minerals are not renewable. 8. think twice, do once. do not fill the earth with low quality devices which will not be able to provide the renewable energy that we need 9. invest in renewable innovation. 10. switch gradually to digital currency if need be.

[@lizelliott6528]

We need less people

[@globalmuffin2]

@@lizelliott6528 they should quit playing democratic and just globally enforce the one child per family law.

[@lizelliott6528]

@@globalmuffin2In most wealthy countries people only have a couple kids. In poor countries they have a dozen. The world would be much better off if we just got rid of China and India. That would take care of almost 3 billion people

[@MikeJohnson-nj1ry]

Corporations are using green to screw us and to enrich their profits.

[@OptoNoiseNews]

We need to think about how we engineer solutions. Just relying on the words of countless Pulitzer hopefuls only leads to the hollow green branding highlighted in this film. We need people to design solutions needed for change but ALSO networks of people that can coordinate the change, maintain the change and continually and independently monitor how effective our solutions are. Why can't the press make it normal to regularly publish stats? Covid stats, local CO2 stats, pollutant stats, local butterflies spotted stats. We need scientists and economists to highlight problems, but it is only with medics and engineers that we can actually solve them and continually evaluate them. We need a completely brand new breed of industrialist, ones that can build sustainable civic spaces and social activities, putting locals and the planet before their egos.

[@itsvoogle]

This film shows the reality in our world today. I think we should all take a real good look and consideration again at Nuclear energies. We dont have time and I dont see another way out of this without us destroying ourselves first.

[@sobriquetsunshine7585]

Its was an incredible and important film. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR MAKING IT! As depressing as it is knowledge is power! I really want to start making changes now. I hope great ideas that are ACTUALLY sustainable are thought of and put into motion. 🤞

[@markhemsworth2670]

what knowledge is provided here? All the misinformation is summarized here - www.filmsforaction.org/watch/michael-moore-presents-planet-of-the-humans/

[@lrvogt1257]

It being used to discredit the entire environmental movement and climate change. It's BS and a disaster. kzbin.info/www/bejne/kJ6xm39-h6aDaLc

[@PistonAvatarGuy]

@@lrvogt1257 For every 1 unit of energy that you put into solar, you get 1.6 units back, that's not something which can even begin to displace fossil fuels. The people attacking this film are the problem.

[@lrvogt1257]

@@PistonAvatarGuy : That's a fictional statistic because it depends entirely on the quality of the panels and how long they produce and they get better every week. "PV-systems will provide a net gain of 26 to 29 years of pollution-free and greenhouse-gas-free electrical generation … So, for an investment of from 1 to 4 years worth of their energy output, PV systems can provide as much as 30 years or more of clean energy.”"

[@PistonAvatarGuy]

@@lrvogt1257 That's the latest data, buddy, and you're likely to be looking at solar panels without energy storage. How can solar panels displace fossil fuels completely without solving the problem of intermittency?

[@ehontcan]

Your Movie is great Michael Moore. Hope you get an award for it.

[@friendsandindustry]

I think it's hilarious that Josh Fox is so mad about this.

[@jean6453]

Yes, what is that all about ? I hope he takes the time to listen to these conversations and reconsiders his position.

[@MrIzzyDizzy]

Josh knows solar energy carbon payback 1-5 years even with fossil fuel baseload,

[@AudioPervert1]

Josh Foxx is a regular american hipster asshole .... Who drinks coca cola !

[@lrvogt1257]

It's sad that Moore would associate himself with this antique climate denial propaganda. kzbin.info/www/bejne/kJ6xm39-h6aDaLc

[@cate1657]

I'll be watching the film tonight--in the meantime, one of the impressions I've had for decades now about "environmental" issues is how carefully protective Americans (and perhaps others of the world, too) are about not being upset emotionally by what they learn about the catastrophic situation we've been heading into for some time now. It impresses me that this tendency to keep our emotional selves comfortable is exactly why we consume so much and thusly destroy so much of our ecosystem with the making or using of products for living our lifestyles. And, ironically, the mess we've made by being so child-like in our need for emotional comforting we also "can't deal" emotionally because the mess we've made is now so upsetting to us--and so the capitalist system of consumption just increases as we buy more stuff to make us feel better about how very bad things are--it's incredibly central to why we are no longer going to be able to avoid being upset because the earth just can't take it anymore.

[@shorthairedhippy]

"We need to find another way to live." Indeed we do. Permaculture has a lot of the answers.

[@justgivemethetruth]

Really steams me to see KZbin pulling "Planet Of The Humans" for some minor copyright thing that ( correct me if I am wrong ) should be included under the fair use doctrine.

[@jstenner]

Outstanding discussion, thank you for this! I learned a lot.

[@thenewdavinci1852]

Im not a dem im a republican at heart but thank you to mr MOORE for the great documentary. He should be invited and welcomed to the republicans. He did the world a big favour.

[@martiheintz3526]

Two sides to every story and some people who seem to be so brainwashed just don't want to believe as they don't want to be known they are wrong.

[@wendysgarden4283]

saying "I was wrong" is one of the hardest things to do. Small example: I honestly, in early March, didn't think the pandemic was that big a deal. Normalcy bias, the thing where you've heard alarmism so much that the instant people say "toilet paper" you roll your eyes and tune out. But wow, was I wrong! If we only lose 1 million Americans, we'll be "lucky." Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

[@margaretawass1627]

That surprised me!!!!!!!!!! Extiction Rebellion??? Have you checked who is financing them?? And what business the financer is involved in???

[@AScreenwritersJourney]

I reviewed PLANET OF THE HUMANS in my latest video, "COVID-19 Shelter in Place: Week 7." Thank you for making the movie available on KZbin!

[@simjea]

Thanks to the XR founder to ask the question about the science. Whether you agree with the movie or not, their point was quite clear: we can't carry on living the way we are as it create too much destruction.

[@Andres-ow2sn]

It’s a beautiful story, I loved it... tells we have been sent to chase our tails chasing ourselves... here we are sitting on a great plateau and all this phobias... the biggest form of self success is accepting your wrongs and mistakes,.. we can only move on if we accept that we can be wrong,.. live and learn.

[@Justin.Martyr]

*DonaLd Trump was Right ALL Along!!!! Trump Nov. 3rd; MAGA!!!!*

[@Gametophyte666]

There is a guy who has been helping to promote the idea for many years now that endless growth is at the root of our evironmental problems. An idea that I've felt in my gut to be true since I became aware of the problems that civilization faces as a young man growing up in the 90's. His name is Dave Gardener, a fellow film maker responsible for a film called "Growthbusters". Check it out at www.growthbusters.org

[@wendysgarden4283]

PBS ran a documentary many years ago called Affluenza. And Jimmy Carter told us we were addict to oil, to drive 55, and to turn down the thermostat and wear a sweater. Most people laughed at him, and when he was out of office, undid the small good he had done. Heck, when I was a kid, we never threw away old clothes. We braided them into rugs. The ideas have been there. But people don't change, I fear.

[@Gametophyte666]

Sadly it seems that humankind will not learn their lesson until there is simply nothing left to consume.

[@cosmiccreator]

One simple but effective way we can *drastically* reduce our carbon footprint is to remove animal products from our diets. ♥

[@robertcallaghan4029]

simple but not easy because 5 billion people disagree In 30 years emissions went up 50% and renewable energy reached 4% of total global energy use. Only 4% of animals are wild, 96% are human and livestock. There are 25 billion chickens on earth. *THE END OF THE WORLD -> Rated G* | Why we have to cut fossil use 55% in 10 yrs to save earth. www.reddit.com/r/environment/comments/gcqppl/the_end_of_the_world_rated_g/

[@jimwoods9551]

Titanic deck chairs - watch film again

[@doesthislookinfected5923]

Why has it taken so long for people to realise what is basic physics ,our problems are never addressed ,the main one being we do not wish to give up our way of life all we keep striving for is a way to continue doing what we are doing .This is not about saving "The world" this is always about saving our way of life ,still we use this arrogant term "The world" as if the world is reliant on us when in fact we are reliant on it and it will do just fine without us ,we could wipe out every species on the planet and it will recover and replace life with like species over time ,look to places like Australia and how it's endemic species evolved .People are deluded if they think we can destroy this planet ,it would recover without us it is just the time scale we cannot comprehend and the world wont care if it takes another billion years it will recover ,just without us. Once we acknowledge just how insignificant we actually are we may just gain the humility to survive with this world we live in

[@wendysgarden4283]

well stated.

[@piccadelly9360]

That's true . It would be very interesting to see life afterwards when people are already extinct. Because nowadays people have also done something good for the earth. All the oil that we pumped out of the earth actually detoxified the earth. And thus will give completely new ways of life in the far future. This is a good subject for Hollywood for an SF film

[@MrIzzyDizzy]

liked the film -- we definetely need to cut way back on bio mass. We definetley need more energy storage,. My question isnt solar energy carbon payback 1-5 years even with fossil fuel baseload,

[@parajacks4]

Yes, and solar panels typically last more than the quoted 20 years, often beyond 25 years. That and solar panel efficiency is usually twice the 8% from the film He could not of thumped solar more inaccurately if he had tried. Has Michael not heard of investigative journalism?

[@greyhnd001]

So true. I am worried Michael has a conflict of interest by owning a fair amount of Exon stock. Scary. That movie scared the hell out of me to start with until I saw a video that proved the people in his video aren't paid very much and they aren't even told it was going to portray the government in a bad light. i am in the process of building a rocket stove for my back yard with airocrete. When I do me end goal is to move it into my house. It uses far less wood than any other heating method.

[@parajacks4]

B Green I want to build a rocket mass heater too. Got a make sure the flue is very well sealed as unlike a conventional stove the flue gasses in a RMH are under positive pressure. they save a lot of firewood and provide heat long after they’ve gone out this makes the concept very appealing to me.

[@Land-of-reason]

@@parajacks4 I once considered solar panels, however, when you dig into them their efficiency is apauling and MTBF terrible. Energy storage is a whole bag of worms. Extinction Rebellion are quite simply political anarchists.

[@willwalthamforest8706]

@@Land-of-reason political anarchists? What do you mean?

[@elainetruman3551]

Thank You Michael Moore - You are a Hero

[@amklvn]

Just take a good look at the people involved with pushing climate control and how they live their lives start thinking for yourselves and use common sense instead of falling into political rants start in your own back yards and city streets picking up all the trash is a start before anything else

[@cate1657]

Good ideas, Amie K! I might add that in addition to picking up trash how about just not generating so much trash to begin with.

[@canadiannuclearman]

A man by the name T. Boon Pickens who said he is an "oil man" who spent 25$ million of his own money to promote wind farm from North Dakota to Texas .It was soon realized he runs a natural gas hedge fund. The more Wind the more backup power is needed. And everyone knows thats natural gas.

[@alokraj3128]

Ha Ha! Reptiles change their skins from time to time. This is called moulting. Michael Moore chose this time to moult because he is endowed with more foresight than his brother greens.Now the rest of you greens can choose - do you have foresight or are you lemmings on the run with greedy millionaires guiding you?

[@desert.mantis]

Thank you, Michael, Jeff, Ozzie, and of course, Claire for a wonderful in depth discussion about the film, Extinction Rebellion and the fate of our world. Admittedly, I found myself falling into the "trap" of questioning the outdated solar/wind technology used in the film. Thanks for catching me. I am looking at the wrong issue. Eight percent/twenty percent efficiency does not make a difference. Claire, I initially blew off Extinction Rebellion as just another off-beat environmental group. I learned the error in my thinking. Jeff, I appreciate the heart and soul you bring to this film and to the discussion of resource use. That human impact is often omitted from the discussion. Ozzie, I'm ordered a copy of Green Illusion from Powell's Bookstore. I have so much to learn from you. Michael, keep up the good work in plugging work like Planet of the Humans. I may even some day forgive you for your joining Joy Reid in smearing Tulsi Gabbard.

[@Chrisbell804]

I lived off grid with 150 W12 V solar panel. If you are willing to wash your clothes by hand and go without refrigeration all you need is a woodstove set up with passive hot water in conjunction with a summertime homemade solar hot water heater.

[@mykalsarakula3652]

NUF SAID GO OUT AND DO SOMETHING I AM IN A SMALL VILLAGE IN THAILAND..we have to forage for food..look to bangladesh..3rd world countries as mentors

[@AvivaSingsOut]

yes

[@wendysgarden4283]

yes. The solution truly is to quit breeding, and then to live what we in the West see as a 17th century agrarian life. But people mostly won't.

[@Philippositivity]

Now the Polar bear populations have exploded and the polar caps have not melted and CO2 has been hundreds of times greater in the past, the greens want to reduce the population of humans, well will they set an example of self sacrifice? 50M long kitchen Claire!

[@TheMarkyMarx]

I loved the film, thanks for making it, but trees like carbon.

[@MarkReedman]

We already eat and drink bio renewables so how hard is it to get our heating and cooling and transport the same way. Solar is a no brainer. We just need to use our unfortunate initial choice of fossil fuels to make the infrastructure to go completely bio renewable and solar.It's not rocket science. We already have the technology we just need the will and the time.

[@JohnFGrant]

The naivete of the film makes as to the damage this film might cause is breathtaking. I do not doubt they felt these issues needed to be discussed. But for those of us who've been fighting to promoting the whole "package" of; social change, ending capitalism, establishing a green economic model, protecting and enhancing nature AND replacing fossil fuelled power generation with renewable energy, the film is a kick in the teeth. This film makes clear we're not perfect (we all know this fact!) but fails to realise that often "perfection is the enemy of the good". Many of us fear that the film gives oxygen to so many false arguments the fossil fuel companies have been promoting for decades and it's going to be significantly harder to move forward (up until now we've been moving forward faster). Rather than giving us a model for the future path, and showing us where we left the path in the past (so we can learn!). It presents something that looks like the present (often it isn't) and outlines how imperfect we are - is that constructive? In a world where the richest 10% consume 50% of our resources should we still be coming out with this developed country mantra of less people, less people! It's more complex than just numbers of people! If we dropped our population by 80% (with a Thanos snap?) but they lived like Americans the World would still be too small for our needs and we'd still kill it for the "God of Capitalism".

[@drbvo9578]

I am convinced with this message you will reach a lot more people than with the former rhetoric where everybody who dares to ask questions is silenced. Speaking from experience since I am a nature loving conservative European.

[@mykalsarakula3652]

THE BEST LEADER IS ONE THAT DOES NOT WANT ..LIKE GANDI..

[@wendysgarden4283]

the philosopher king never wants to serve. But he must. I tried that in a letter to Cuomo, but I don't think it'll work.

[@eyejhescy]

Thank you for making this film! 🙏🏾😊

[@alokraj3128]

At the root of all our problems is overpopulation, exacerbated by competitive over-breeding between muslims & christians and proselytisation by them among destitute societies. When, as now, this competition is controlled unevenly, both these supremacist abrahamic religions cheat, in the hope of eventual dominance. After Covid-19 all nations must uniformly outlaw proselytisation by charities & NGO's, and disincentivize 3rd & subsequent births per father AND/OR family. This will also release preachers from competitive, zero-sum pseudo-employment and force them to contribute to their national GDP

[@PistonAvatarGuy]

Making everyone work to produce something is part of the problem, you just end up with people doing completely unnecessary jobs, wasting energy and resources. It's time to accept that we don't need everyone working 40 hours a week.

[@alokraj3128]

@@PistonAvatarGuy I agree. But millions of preachers in different religious garb, working towards a zero-sum end and hurting all mankind in the process is to be avoided at all cost.

[@markedwards2729]

Thank you. I live in the most biologically altered landscape in North America, here in the heartland of Iowa. I feel this is ground zero for this discussion as wind turbines increasingly cover the land on top of industrial agriculture. Big Ag in Iowa alone contributes roughly 40% of the toxins killing the Gulf of Mexico. We have lost roughly 50% of our remaining topsoil in just the last 50 years. We are thought of as feeding the world but in actuality we don't even feed ourselves as we import roughly 65% of what we eat from an average of 1500 miles away. The average food item travels three thousand miles to get to our plate. This means two-thirds of our 36 million acres has been reduced to just two annual species - corn and soybeans and 98% has been converted for human use. Our water is so polluted that the most common diving duck in N. America, the Lesser Scaup can not migrate across our state without starving to death or losing so much body weight it can't reproduce. I could go on in great detail here at the end of civilization as we know it but you know what I mean. I began this discussion with a presentation at an international Env. Ethics Conference held here in 1989 and was yelled off the stage and told this couldn't be true. Now at 73 years old I hear the same discussion being raised and the same audience screaming this isn't true. Thank you for at least raising the discussion........again. Our group has begun the discussion of solutions to going in a different direction. If we converted just the 5-year flood plains and slopes over 9%, both of which are un-economical even in this perverted Ag system today, from ag and did nothing else but let it go, out of our control we would have one-fourth of our state available for Cores-Corridors-Communities which would facilitate all life. More info can be found at - BeWildReWild.org. Love.

[@wolfcounselor8346]

I used to ignore Moore. But now he's got my attention and I'm totally pissed off.

[@AudioPervert1]

Rather late, and also inconsequential your ignorance or solidarity ...

[@shawnt618]

The go local discussion seems very similar to the transition town concept. Have you engaged the transition town people?

[@brienmurray5510]

What would happen if Aliens came into our Earth and started burning our houses?

[@hoppingmadmooney5823]

crack open the whiskey !!

[@desert.mantis]

I am certain that the planet's leaders would immediately act by passing a non-binding agreement that resolves to strike back by 2050.

[@PurpleWhirple]

I’d say ‘Oi, aliens, No! I admire your superior intelligence and your ability to travel through vast distances of interstellar space, but if you come down my road, zapping houses with your anti matter fire starters, you’re going to get a slap.

[@Andres-ow2sn]

Dave Perris oi,. I think they would have a fit about us..., imagine meeting a race which survives millions of years, and here we are at the peak of the human race afraid to talk to each other. If we could just accept that we are all a little too insecure... It’s like waiting for the next episode of a sitcom like meet the #Kardashians ...but on a global scale.

[@ligiten]

It's an amazing film and there should be a whole lot more of this. But I'am a bit concerned that humans as a species are going to change. I think that earth would be far better off without us. So extinction could be the ultimate price to pay for the way we treat our planet and strange enough could be the solution for mother earth as well. For the record I don't want that but still........

[@MrJm323]

This sums up the environmentalist ideology. The baby must be killed to save the bathwater. All hail the bathwater! (And if you actually value the bathwater over your baby, then it makes perfect sense!) "I think that Earth would be far better off without us." "So extinction [of the human race] ...could be the solution for Mother Earth..." This tells you what they value -- and it is not human life (yours, mine, that baby's, his own). THIS is the essence of environmentalism (not conservationism, not sanitation, but environmentalism): HATRED is their motive, GENOCIDE is their solution -- their Final Solution.

[@cybergothika6906]

4:25 go

[@bruceshelton1498]

It’s nice to see the haters coming after u. Job well done

[@milliewray]

A lot of young people are going to be angry in the future when they realise they've been lied to

[@laurits8218]

Yeah, if they wake up. I don`t believe that because of their addiction to the screen. I mean, they should have woken up already. Especially after the revelations of the real terrorists behind 9/11 and now thw Covid19 scam. Climate: It`s an ever thinner ozon-layer that heats the globe because of Chlorine gases and depleted uranium high up in the atmosphere. (from Bush`s Iraqi war). These substances together with the sun cleave the ozon molecules. This leads to increased solar energy in the atmosphere (and earth). Increased solar energy on the sea increases the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere. Water vapor accounts for over 98% of the greenhouse gasses that drive the greenhouse effect. (CO2 less than 1%). It is really bad, especially when the problem is not adressed by our goverment or corps. Nor that false prophet Greta Thunberg. She is a unvitting dupe run by the Illuminati. Like a witch, you can say. She is responsible for leading hundreds of millons of people behind the light. She is the one bewitches people with lies.

[@andrewwong1146]

Spot on!

[@milliewray]

@@laurits8218 So what it is to be done?

[@fdsvensson]

Sorry Michael but Ars tenica wrote something that must tell you something!

[@inorganicintelligence-IoI]

We can't use gadgets to fix the problems with gadgets.

[@PistonAvatarGuy]

Actually, gadgets are the ONLY solution to the problems with gadgets, unless you want billions to die, we just need the right kinds of gadgets.

[@greyhnd001]

@@PistonAvatarGuy So true motion activated lights are a quick way to reduce power usage.I am getting into programming Arduino and ESP32s to control lighting,fans, water pumps itc.... with cheap motion sensors and a cheap esp32 as well as a relay. All in all its about 8 bucks but one esp32 can control about 10 or 15 lights with motion sensors. I want to find out how to do it with only one esp;32 to control multiple lights. Only problem is it will be lots of wires. The esp32 does have wifi and bluetooth so maybe I can use that. the Esp 32s are so cheap it is almost better to use 1 at each area. On top of this I have a hydroponic gardent that any one can build and control the lights a water pump to reduce power usage.It could control the water pump and lights.

[@rorylee3582]

Very true. You cannot solve a problem with the same type of thinking that created it. Permaculture or death.

[@PistonAvatarGuy]

@@greyhnd001 I was thinking more like nuclear energy, carbon capture and carbon-neutral synfuels. We're going to need to pull GIGATIONS of CO2 from the atmosphere by the end of the century in order to avoid a catastrophic warming event, and nuclear energy is the only energy source which can facilitate that sort of action.

[@Conenion]

@@PistonAvatarGuy > Actually, gadgets are the ONLY solution to the problems with gadgets, People have been telling this for 30 years. It didn't happen, will not happen. Technology isn't the answer. At the end of the day any technology consumes resources. And produces waste.

[@brendanlea3605]

Bless you good people. I am grateful for all you are trying to do for our future. Peace ❤🙏

[@AlanBolshevik]

Extinction Rebellion have the same underlying politics as the NGOs that are criticised in the film. Their perspective is that "we are all in this together" - they reject the understanding of the role of the capitalists that is correctly stated at the end of the film. "They are not out friends". Why are Moore and the film-makers undermining that message by promoting Extinction Rebellion who are opposed to that view? It is almost like they didn't watch their own film... The Citizens Assembly model is only consultative within the framework of capitalism. Power and decision making remains with the capitalist parliament and, perhaps more importantly, hidden behind the boardrooms of the corporations who rule our world. Having anti-capitalism integrated into the environmental movement is the only way to avert the impending catastrophic ecological collapse.

[@evolutionofmaggie]

I see what you mean

[@ramshackleevents]

Citizens Assemblies are useless unless they are given power, that’s the point of the third demand from extinction rebellion. That’s what the rebellion is here to force through. In the 73 countries XR exist in. And there’s no way XR are the same as the big climate NGOs or movements. Their first action was to occupy greenpeace hq!

[@AlanBolshevik]

@@ramshackleevents indeed not simply "the same" which is why I would never have joined one of those NGOs but I did join XR. What I said was somewhat different - that they "have the same underlying politics" in terms of seeing the capitalists as part of the solution. "We are all in this together" "no blaming and shaming" etc etc. As regards Citizens Assemblies I guess it all depends what content is given to "and be led by" in the third XR demand. Unfortunately it is difficult to give this the content you ascribe to it given that XR say "This isn’t pie in the sky - it’s proven practice. Citizens’ Assemblies around the world have shown that ordinary people can understand complex information, weigh the options, and make informed choices. Examples include Ireland, Canada, Australia, Belgium and Poland." All of these are just consultative bodies and the very fact that they can be used as concrete examples of what is being proposed would, I argue, back up my interpretation. The idea that there would be Citizen's Assemblies that had real sovereign decision making powers over parliament would very definitely be seen as "pie in the sky" by our rulers.

[@joedisco]

XR is massively anti-capitalism: "system change not climate change" is a chant you'll often hear at XR demo's. And many XR actions target corporations, like Black Rock and Barclays (there's one this Thursday...) It's a shame this film didn't really mention the awful things these companies are doing in the name of profit, instead going after good guys like Bill McKibben, who's devoted most of his life to fighting to stop climate breakdown.

[@AlanBolshevik]

@@joedisco so if XR is anti-capitalist why do they say we are all in this together and no blaming or shaming. Saying that the billionaires who run the big corporations are not our friends like Jeff Gibbs did at the end of the film would be breaking the principles of XR. Saying you don't like what some corporations do and pleading with them to change their ways is a pretty meek and mild form of amti-capitalism. XR just calls for Citizens Assemblies, adjuncts to capitalist parliaments to get regulation of the activities of corporations. , XR has nothing to say about the social relations of private ownership of the processes of production, distribution and 3exchange that lies at the heart of capitalism - hars to call that anti-capitalism.

[@elizabethquon533]

Provide a program where a problem is presented and seeing the solutions people would create to make change so the problem is overcomed

[@FREDNAJAH]

I still did not hear any solutions. this was a waste of time.

[@brentgreeff1115]

Nuclear is the solution - Do the research : Fukushima : Deaths‎: ‎1 from radiation, 2,202 from evacuation

[@fotogwaii]

@@brentgreeff1115 #simplynotanoption

[@FREDNAJAH]

@@brentgreeff1115 great then I can sell you some property in chernobyl 34 years later.

[@Dubinski2382]

Brent Greeff Yup.

[@Dubinski2382]

Anonny Maus #simplynotintelligent

[@groganzolla1]

Why is the lamp on behind Jeff Gibbs? The lamps are always on is conventional thinking.

[@SuperLuckyLad]

From the UK: I had to laugh when Ms Farrell claimed they have successful at tapping into peoples feelings... yes they have, they are pretty much detested over here in the UK.

[@AndreClements]

This is not a popularity contest.

[@SuperLuckyLad]

@@AndreClements ... well I credit your honesty in admitting it.... but not your judgement.

[@Land-of-reason]

Most people see Extinction Rebellion as a group of Socialists who are trying to undermine Capitalism. Most people detest this group.

[@jonslack5285]

Not everyone’s cup of tea but have made an important contribution to the debate. And have always remained non violent, peaceful, colorful 💚💜

[@SuperLuckyLad]

@@jonslack5285 ... "Non-violent" .... but done what they can to harass and provoke ordinary working people with the connivance of the establishment.

[@ferkeap]

Don't follow people, follow science.

[@RememberTheSlapFilms]

...but only believe the "science" from people you like....

[@AvivaSingsOut]

i want the earth to survive toooo - thats why we need to plant hemp everywhere xoxoox

[@gargoyle14]

I totally agree! Hemp makes a beautiful fiber for clothing manufacture too, so soft. Please always consider what materials you are wearing. I look for garments made from natural fibers like hemp, organic cotton, wool, linen, and tencel. Please avoid polyesters and all plastic-based materials :)

[@rubenjames6201]

Fantastic stuff MM & Co. We shall not be moved.

[@alokraj3128]

Pumped Storage-cum-generation systems function as extremely inefficient "batteries" because they involve two inefficient conversions (a) pumping water uphill and (b) regeneration by hydel. Instead, particularly in monsoon lands like India, if flood water is pumped up and drained out only for irrigation, then you double the system efficiency making it viable. Next, COMPLETELY dedicate all existing solar and wind generation ONLY to uphill pumping of monsoon rainwater from flood plains, into storage lakes at different altitudes, and intermittence of operation becomes inconsequential. And you do not need batteries any more!

[@wendysgarden4283]

how do you build the pumps? with what materials? Mine how and where? With what damage to the environment? How do you deliver the electricity? Keep up the grid? Not have the delivery system start wildfires?

[@alokraj3128]

In the Midlands (UK) a national water transportation system, using a network of canals with locks (pumps) was started at the beginning of the industrial revolution. In India we are now connecting our rivers into a grid - parts of which, already completed, uses pumps where the gradient requires them.

[@alokraj3128]

@Botchvinik @Wendy's Garden states elsewhere (2 days ago) that she has lived off grid for 12 years, denying herself internet, social media, etc. She did this to protest against the Iraq war. Not my style of protesting anything, but what the heck, she has the right to choose her methods. So I can understand why things she did not experience all this time are so difficult for her to come to terms with. She had all of 75 watts of solar power - no wonder she imagines tiny 75 watt pumps transporting monsoon floods hundreds of kilometres into storage lakes. I am reminded of a cross between Gulliver's Travels and Rip van Winkle. LOL😃

[@alokraj3128]

@Botchvinik Just imagine the preposterous grip green movements have on people, driving them to forsake mainstream life and live like hermits! This the impression I have from two postings made by @Wendy's Garden on this webpage. This equals the power of priests during the inquisition. Mind you, in this particular instance I am not denouncing religion per se (though I am no religious person!), just marvelling at how left wing green thought has replaced organised religion. Just appalled at the power of suggestion - If only it was positively and constructively directed!

[@beestufus]

I haven't heard a thing about hydro electric power. Where's that discussion?

[@achenarmyst2156]

90 minutes 😉

[@MrJm323]

They're against that as they are against nuclear power. They are against all solutions that save our industrial way of life.

[@edmondov]

Lets not forget that earth made humans. We are not a cancer.

[@elizabethquon533]

We don't start from the top down but from the bottom up. We need a. Foundation for anything to exist including change.