Cursed Belt Weaving, Curseder Belt Tapestry & Cursedest Legitimately Obtained "INFINITY CHEST"! [4K]

[@klibe]

I think the problem comes from the fact the truck simulator presents little risk compared to the other playstyle. I suggest they give an advantage to the risky play, maybe a productivity bonus for the promethium recipe in deep space, because right now there's no reason to go for the less safe route.

[@MichaelHendriks]

THAT is a great suggestion! Not nerfing/disabling the truckers method, but giving 100% multiplicative productivity bonus to prometheum science creation in the deep field would be a great boost to the higher risk race-ships style

[@nodrance]

I think another issue is that it's unintuitive and feels like an exploit. Something like this shouldn't be strictly superior to all other options by a mile. Something like an obscure movement tech to be 5% faster feels fair, but something that makes an entirely new OP strat does not

[@klibe]

​@@MichaelHendriksalso the idea of surface/position based productivity could be really interesting for mods!

[@heh_boaner]

The incentive is time.

[@gregorywhaley3044]

Maybe the science packs produced can be better quality out in deep space? It is essentially just productivity built into the science pack instead of double the science packs.

[@Trupen]

Factorio devs: Fixed in the next patch

[@MichaelHendriks]

Well at least THIS one wasn't fixed before the video even came out lol

[@tentrix8505]

I hope not. I agree with Micheal Hendriks, I am very much a trucker and not a race car driver Edit: I WAS NOT DONE WITH THE VIDEO lol. The exploit steps with the recipe changes probably shouldn't be included, but I don't think they should change belt weaving

[@goffe2282]

Hmmm. I think I would like them say that prometheus science packs must be crafted in deep space. You can still truck but you would have to bring eggs to the edge of shattered planet space..... but on the other hand.... since that does not fix the trucking problem (if it needs fixing) then maybe just leave it as it is.

[@benmaw1276]

​@@MichaelHendrikswhat was fixed before a video?

[@MichaelHendriks]

@benmaw1276 The "Infinite Productiviy Bonus" glitch --> kzbin.info/www/bejne/kJKUaYaCmZWDepI

[@phyphor]

Of course you'd find a way to store a planet in a 5x5 piece of equipment!

[@jankabala8561]

Just ask chat gbt to do it

[@eppiox]

We didn't even consider bringing eggs to research in space, we defaulted to 'oh we need a long belt to collect everything and bring it back' ha

[@cookies23z]

My idea would be two ships, one to bring eggs to aquillo, one for the science But I feel like eggs freezing on aquillo should be a thing Then again, not at aquillo anyways, altho ypu can just send thousands of biochambers from gleba to aquillo, then recycle them to reclaim eggs

[@E-102_Gamma]

@@cookies23z Wrong eggs. Promethium science packs take _biter_ eggs, not pentapod eggs.

[@kythlyn]

Factorio x shapez: the Space Belt crossover

[@Jodmangel]

I wrote a quick script to find the longest belt weave with an SAT solver. It finds your 32-tile bridge, but also a 34-tile one: 🔴🟡🔵🟢🟥🟥🟨🟨🟥🟥🟦🟦🟨🟨🟩🟩🟥🟥🟨🟨🟦🟦🟨🟨🟥🟥🟩🟩🟨🟨🟦🟦🟥🟥🟨🟨🟨🟨🟢🔴🔵🟡 The circles are the "external" belts and the squares the 34 "internal" ones. No longer solutions exist (unless I messed up the script, obviously).

[@MichaelHendriks]

Just checked in-game, heck yes it works, new record for the longest 1-tile wide gap crossing! (assuming the last 2 yellow squares should be red)

[@Jodmangel]

@@MichaelHendriks Your reply made me check what other solutions are returned, and I think the color of the first two and final two squares is actually irrelevant (if you shuffle around the inputs and outputs). The cheapest solution is 🟡🔴🔵🟢🟨🟨🟨🟨🟥🟥🟦🟦🟨🟨🟩🟩🟥🟥🟨🟨🟦🟦🟨🟨🟥🟥🟩🟩🟨🟨🟦🟦🟥🟥🟨🟨🟨🟨🟢🔵🔴🟡 And that's just your bridge from the video, except the inputs / outputs have been moved one further to the left / right and the free space filled with yellow belts (which don't actually need to be underground). I also checked bridges that only use inserters on one side, and ones that don't use inserters at all. For the version with inserters on only one side, you can do the same trick of moving the inputs to the left and extending the yellow belt. The version without inserters is already optimal.

[@MichaelHendriks]

Dang it, I LITERALLY only needed to put a single yellow belt inbetween the outernmost pairs of yellows (where you have 4 yellows and I had a 1 tile gap + 2 yellows), HOW DID I MISS THAT! (answer: brain stuck on 2-tile sections of undergrounds...) But hah, we can make it cheaper still! of the 4 yellow squares, the first 1 can be an empty gap, then 2-underground 3-normal yellow belt 4-yellow underground. Gonna include it in the belt weaving blueprint collection book which I'll publish soon, I'll credit you as Jodmangel unless you say otherwise

[@Jodmangel]

​@@MichaelHendriks Oh damn, you're right about about the three-belt thing. Well, if it makes you feel better, I also kind of assumed above-ground belts wouldn't help and didn't even program them in until now - and that appears to have been a big mistake lol. Turns out that you can actually insert another set of green belts at the very ends of the bridge to sneak in an extra tile on each side: 🟢🟡🔴🔵🟩🟩🟨🟨🟨🟥🟥🟦🟦🟨🟨🟩🟩🟥🟥🟨🟨🟦🟦🟨🟨🟥🟥🟩🟩🟨🟨🟦🟦🟥🟥🟨🟨🟨🟩🟩🔵🔴🟡🟢 So that brings the total to 36 tiles. Obviously, you can do the same thing for the setup with inserters on only one side. The no-inserter version is still unchanged. Sure, you can credit me if you want. Although at this rate, I wouldn't be surprised if there was something else important I disregarded haha.

[@trezmen]

Revolutionary

[@harry_kr]

this video comes off as an engineering research journal article with a sense of humor, love it!

[@jockeril]

it most definitely is - if you know Hendriks, you know...

[@skilz8098]

@@jockeril If not, they'll just have to wait until *NextTime™*

[@HellvVratH]

This is forbidden knowledge. It should have remained so, there is a reason why we don't grant this to the public.

[@G33KST4R]

hence why it's perfect for prometheus science lol

[@0thPAg]

It's pretty dumb. For end game purposes, what matters is ammo production moreso than storage. The only real reason for belts storage is Prometheus, because non-spoiling biter egg storage is pretty iffy. If you use soil, you can lift 31 eggs per rocket. +(14*2.5)Modules, you can lift 25- 100 per rocket but you only get 25 eggs from that.

[@MichaelHendriks]

Unless you try to actually reach the shattered planet, you don't need to keep up ammo production with ammo spendage, you will do fine with pre-produced and stored ammo (and turn around when 40% of stored ammo is spent)

[@0thPAg]

@@MichaelHendriks but why store it if you're getting so much stuff for free all the time ?

[@CKOD]

for the infinite storage, it would be entertaining if the devs could keep it in but find various abusing ways to punish the player. I.e. a black hole or neutron star destruction of the spacecraft would be a funny hard cap, but adding a gravity effect from "all the mass stored" and progressively pull asteroids in faster and faster to overload the guns could be a fun way for the game to push back. If you can take the pressure, you can try, but if not, you're going to get overwhelmed.

[@hiBest_Blackline]

Basicly showing If youre worthy of the exploit xD

[@wswordsmen]

While programing is always at least 10x harder than you think it is, it seems like the infinite chest glitch has a really easy fix, which might actually improve intended behavior. Have the machine try and reinsert anything in its outputs back into its input slots, so if you tried this it would go from 100 items waiting for other inputs to 100 unique output slots back to 100 items waiting for other inputs.

[@Solarbonite]

Which is going to be hilarious when he switches the recipe back on this save. He'll end up with 25k items in the single stack. 😂

[@MichaelHendriks]

This is a great idea

[@_gameforcer]

You'd still need to put a hard limit on the output buffer. Otherwise when you change back the recipe the output rosources would go back to the input until they hit a recipe limit (e.g. 100 units) and the rest would still sit in the output.

[@figa5567]

@@_gameforcer and how did you get any extra into the output to begin with, other than loading an old, bugged save? You can't.

[@blackwing1362]

​@figa5567 load one recipe with 2x required amount of y ingredient, then load a different recipe to put them all into the output slots. Finally load a third recipe with x required amount of y ingredient.

[@CowCommando]

If they want to _fix_ belt weaving being better than traditional storage, then simply making stack sizes inside inventories upgrade alongside inserter stack sizes would be my recommendation. Either make the stack inserter upgrades also increase inventory stack sizes or add another research on the same tier that increases inventory stack size. Call it Storage Efficiency or something. Alternatively, add an optional, cheap, high tier research that reduces the speed or stopps spoilage entirely when inside spaceship storage. Freeze dry them suckers or something. You make it cheap so you can do one Prometheum research run just to get the upgrade then you can play at your desired pace with any ship size you want.

[@shingshongshamalama]

Or just let me shoot a prometheum asteroid at Nauvis what the hell are we doing this is not asteroid mining.

[@Templarfreak]

i think the problem is that they dont want you to be able to bring a lot of promethium chunks back home at all period. increasing the stack size of asteroid chunks this way would do the opposite of what they want. same with making an upgrade to slow down spoilage.

[@CowCommando]

@Templarfreak If nerfing is the only option, then I suggest they simply make prometheum asteroids not stack on belts. That _fix_ is the least disruptive to the rest of the game. Arguably though, the game design simply presents a challenge and the player is the one who gets to design the solution rather than the devs. Therefore, all solutions are viable and nothing needs fixed to begin with.

[@CowCommando]

@@shingshongshamalama That'd be sweet.

[@patricklinford689]

@@CowCommando were you not paying attention? They already don't stack on belts

[@kamilbidzinski475]

As someone who also has an accent: It really does seem like most naughty words in english have regular word counterparts that make them sound almost the same to a Someone who is learning the language. Slot, Flashlight, Beach, Sheet, Count, Thug, Cog, Dig.

[@cookies23z]

clock as well for some accents X) but yeah, english is a cursed language in that way

[@zchris13]

this is intended

[@EvGamerBETA]

@@kamilbidzinski475 , you cant

[@sponge1234ify]

That might be because English have a much larger amount of vowel sounds compared to the average, despite only having 5 vowel letters in its alphabet. The actual count depends on the accent and variety, but consistently went above 10, when the average for language vowels is just 5. It's why there's so many word pairs that foreign learners often can't hear the difference of.

[@wesleymays1931]

​@zchris13 it's a feature

[@jmatya]

I name it The Hendriks Storage tm

[@earlybird884]

gonna start calling it this lol, great idea!

[@tomsterbg8130]

That railgun bug sounds very familiar to a devlog i watched on making Bloodthief where the dev has a targeting system which would recharge every time it switches targets so he made it into a grace mechanic that the charge would keep going even if the target gets switched or unfocused for a split second (as in you move your mouse away from the enemy due to movement). This is pretty much the same exact scenario, but in a 2D game and an automated system of charging up and switching targets so you lose the progress and have to charge up again.

[@szalyn8849]

A new Bloodthief devlog released today btw!

[@jarrod752]

I'm lazy. I prefer my games to precharge the weapon.

[@tomsterbg8130]

@@szalyn8849 Ooh that's nice to know!

[@Kitin95]

you can also preserve biter eggs by putting them into overgrowth soil, and then use a recycler to recover them, dont know if its useful

[@MichaelHendriks]

If anything should be nerfed, it probably should be THAT lol

[@walksanator]

I mean 2 downsides of that. 1st is the byproducts you have to deal with. And you need 4x as many biter eggs for science. And i forget if you can even put recyclers in spa e

[@Kitin95]

@@walksanator Byproducts are insignificant, i would just trash them and eggs cost bioflux only, which are practically free, just like anything that comes from Gleba. You can recycle in space.

[@MichaelHendriks]

To clarify my earlier stance, I don't actively want this nerfed or anything, I like options so I really don't mind if this stays in the game. The devs seem to actively have avoided being able to nullify spoilage though, for instance not implementing something like aquilo cryogenic cooling to halt spoilage.

[@sergeiburtsev5712]

If you add a vertical belt weaving as well, there's an easy 10x10 tileable weaving pattern with 4.4 belts per tile. This is more than 3 belts per tile when using only the horizontal belt weaving. You can even make a less easy tileable pattern with 4.6 belts per tile. Don't waste the space! Store 50% promethium in the same space!

[@MichaelHendriks]

I got up to 4,333 belts per tile with quad+triple belt weaving. I thought about getting rid of yellow belts altogether and try triple+triple belt weaving, less max belts per tile but probably more average belts per tile. Is this how you got the 4.4 / 4.6 belts per tile? I didn't try it out yet, I forced myself to stop playing space age and trying new things after the shattered planet flight where I discovered the infinite storage exploit, because the video kept getting longer and longer with each "discovery" which needed to be included lol. Ok you nerdsniped me, I'm gonna try it out right now

[@jockeril]

@@MichaelHendriks 'nerdsniped' - 🤣🤣🤣

[@purepandemonium8276]

@@jockeril Nerd sniping is a time-honored tradition. See xkcd 356

[@davemcdave6849]

@@MichaelHendriks the 4.4 is a 10x10 square with blue and green in every row and column, which leaves room for 2 rows and 2 columns to have red belts too.

[@XeLegend]

@@davemcdave6849 Are you able to share a blueprint? I've tried wrapping my mind around what this would look like but am coming up with nothing.

[@Xaymar]

I love how Space Age threw logic out the window. Belts work without gravity, but chests can't.

[@senfiro3156]

Now i want to see a 2^64 items spitted out all over Nauvis. Great content!

[@irrelevant_noob]

That's fiction, pretty sure even 2^32 is not feasible, considering it would use up a lot of GiBs of RAM just for the item information alone...

[@user-zz6fk8bc8u]

You don't need much RAM at all. The items don't differ and you only need to store a counter that means if you want to count to 2^64 you just need 64 bits or 8 bytes. Not really a lot of RAM.

[@irrelevant_noob]

@@user-zz6fk8bc8u you don't have a single slot with X items... you have X *_individual_* slots.

[@1e1001]

@@user-zz6fk8bc8u yeah but… does the game do that? probably not

[@MichaelHendriks]

Handwritten Subtitles available! (should be auto-translatable in your own language) Patreon-post with a little bit of background on this video (not paywalled): www.patreon.com/posts/cursed-curseder-117865464 If it's your first time here and you like my editing style, I recommend these 2 supercut videos: I survived 1000 days on the Ultimate DeathWorld Challenge (and made World Peace with the Biters) --> kzbin.info/www/bejne/eaimaZ-bgtytd6c How many Warps does it take to beat Warptorio... --> kzbin.info/www/bejne/pHqQXqakrclmmpI That should keep you busy for a while hehehe... And hey, if you watched those 2 12-hour supercuts in full, consider joining my Patreon page :) --> www.patreon.com/c/MichaelHendriks CU Next Time!

[@rumplstiltztinkerstein]

Great video sir!

[@subaquamille]

Mike at it's best! You may also enjoy his take on *Tightrope* and *Bitter Island DeathWorld* if you liked space-hacking (pun intended). Both are playlist of short, silent, text-edited episodes to highlight key points of strategy. Kind of different than newer videos but the freashness is the same! Thanks a lot Mike for all of the work you invested, the result vids are gems!

[@Whayles]

Gigachad Michael Hendricks uploads a video the day after work party with usual legendary quality editing, nice

[@CrissPivot]

Crochet and weaving making another breakthrough on storage technology... Once again

[@CrabQueen]

"This is what happens when you're too nice to the players" -Koverax

[@tomsterbg8130]

0:30 funny or not, the moment i saw the FFF with the new turbo belt i immediately remembered my research on belts and weaving and started drawing up concepts about the new weve system. Also since this FFF was the one that showed stacking too i was amazed to calculate belt throughput with stacking and compare throughputs. Turns out 45/s or 90/s max per column in 1.1 is nowhere near the 240/s for a 4-stack turbo belt and the easy to weave red, blue and green giving (30+45+60)*4 = 540/s. You know I was absolutely amazed to get to that conclusion and that yellow belts in space age are better than blue belts in 1.1. It was a field day in my brain haha! Mabe the connection head for woven belts could be in the middle, dividing the weave into sections and being designed in a way that keeps it dense, increasing the overall density of the design without the need to approach really large sizes to benefit from the improvement and it frees up the edges for easier expansion of the design. Some of those attempts may have to intentionally leave unfinished belts however such that it's like a tree, going from the root and to the branches instead of being a large snake with an eventual common output.

[@MichaelHendriks]

Yeah agree, I played through the entirety of space age with almost exclusively yellow belts

[@dirian6583]

Wube devs: We are happy with our somewhat realistic science fiction factory game. Michael Hendriks: Oh sorry but belt weaving is non euclidian, and... oh a little kitten, can I put it in a box?

[@givikap120]

Why not Euclidean? Just they're on different height underground

[@MichaelHendriks]

I think of them like Moebius belts, twisting around each other underground

[@cookies23z]

@@givikap120 ooooo thats so big brain!

[@dannyboy1350]

@@givikap120 if yellow is on height 1 (down is positive) and red is on height 2, you make a simple 2-belt weave with alternating yellow and red, a yellow underground goes underneath a red and comes back up but how does the red underground then go under the yellow underground that's in the way?

[@dudupintarolas5214]

@@dannyboy1350 just flip them to the side while underground that way you have 2 lines in 1 place

[@Shamefulbird]

I love the fact that every idea in my head I had got made before I could even do it because I’m stuck on gleba trying to make a base work with trains

[@Shamefulbird]

That also mean I’m a complete moron I guess ?

[@bobbys4186]

its ok, by playing factorio you are already selected for having above average Q. You are just the dumbest person in a room of geniuses

[@Shamefulbird]

@ probably I dunno 🤷‍♀️ but as of now I’m just stuck on gleba making things work with trains

[@Xeridanus]

@@Shamefulbird That sounds painful to be quite honest. Have you considered bots or is using trains part of the challenge you set for yourself?

[@xmod2]

I gained warp watching this.

[@MWSin1]

"The DevTeam has arranged an automatic and savage punishment for pudding farming. It's called pudding farming."

[@fluffy_tail4365]

Dev shoul add black hole collapse if you abuse the infinity schest method

[@MichaelHendriks]

That'd be an awesome easter egg to put in lol

[@dmitrysushko7276]

Or maybe calculate mass of whole spaceship and chunks and make it (kind of gravitationally) attract more and more asteroids depending on that mass without upper limit.

[@dudupintarolas5214]

@@dmitrysushko7276 so the upper limit wouldn't be max storage but instead how much your computer can calculate?

[@longlostwraith5106]

The game would crash and/or crawl to a halt *way* before a black hole would've formed.

[@thewhitefalcon8539]

​​@@longlostwraith5106 imagine thinking factorio is realistic

[@Fists_are_Overpowerd]

"The Intended Way" ™© 11:50

[@Pystro]

19:43 That's not the quilting solution I would have chosen. I would in the vertical direction do the same 3-belt weaving that your design is based on. But then I would split up that long horizontal free space for the horizontal weaving into a more diagonal free space. Either by offseting each column by 1 more, or by offsetting each 2nd column by 2 more (the difference is only visual), but in any case restarting the pattern with the identical start after 10 columns. And then you can fill those diagonal free spaces with green and blue horizontals. The advantage of not using yellow and red horizontals is that it now tiles infinitely in both directions. And switching from including the colors that have to "surface" more frequently to the others gives you more density (4.667 belts per tile in fact, compared to 4.333 in your quilt).

[@MichaelHendriks]

I fail to visualize that, would you mind making a blueprint, or even a paint/excel file screenshot would do. It sounds not possible to end up at 4.667 with a repeating 10x10 pattern; feels like it should be 4.6 or 4.7. or, maybe 4.5, we've already got 1 example which is a 10x10 repeating pattern with green/blue colums, 5 green/blue rows and 5 green/blue/red rows. I could be wrong (mb your pattern is 12x10 with 8 rows including red or smt, that'd make for 4.667?), curious to find out more!

[@Pystro]

I'm currently in the process of re-creating it. I'm not sure if factorio pastebin was happy with the blueprint string size (48k characters). It's not a 10x10 tiling unit. It was a 48x10 tiling unit. The 48 comes from it being the "optimal" 3-belt weave in that direction. Except that I found an even more optimal 3-belt weave (in terms of the fraction of the space that's used), which repeats after 46 tiles and saves on one "re-surfacing" of a red belt. At least that's the optimum that I could find so far. With the _truly_ optimal 3-belt weave it's actually got a density of 3+8/23*5 = 4.739 ...unless I miscounted.

[@Pystro]

Screw this, it's going to be easier to find your discord than to post a factoriobin link to youtube... See you there.

[@MichaelHendriks]

Awesome stuff... 4.7+ average is ludicrous! Gonna give it another go myself as well in a bit. I'm in the process of collecting and organizing all kinds of belt weaving blueprints in a single blueprint book to publish. If you agree I'll credit yours as made by Pystro (unless we later decide otherwise on discord or smt)

[@davemcdave6849]

@@Pystro it might be possible to do even better. in the 4.739, imagine removing reds from 1/5 of the rows and filling those gaps with more verticals. thatd get 2.8+(8*5+6)/23 = 4.8 if it can be found. and if thats not possible in 46x10, we can still search 48x10 for 2.8+(8*5+7)/24 = 4.758

[@pindab0ter]

This is amazing stuff again! Love the small humorous details, too!

[@tyrosinetek]

When I mentioned the promethium chunk output slots during the stream, I did not realise that it was repeatable and that it risked creating a black hole 😂

[@JayVal90]

I'm convinced there is a mathematical way to prove the max belt weaving capacity, given a set of rules. At the very least we should be able to predict best type of weave given a set of building rules (given raw size, or given limited width and/or height). Also is there a way to make the belt weave alternate belt types around the corner so that items have the same time around the circuit?

[@MichaelHendriks]

I tried to disprove it by just adding up the raw space occupation requirements for each set of undergrounds (if that exceeds one, it's impossible even if belts can be arbitrarily placed instead of needing to connect), but it came out to be *just* under 1 (2/6+2/8+2/10+2/12=0,95). There is a bit of flexibility in the order the "input belts" can be in, so it sounds like it is probably possible to at least get a semi-balanced item throughput if you wish so, haven't checked myself yet tho

[@AccessDen]

For an NxM (e.g. = 100x50) grid there are only ~10^(NxM) possible belt configurations in the space, thus it follows that an optimal solution EXISTS, but realistically unless there is some 'simple' modular approach to the problem or clever way to show that some upper bound is always saturated then we will never know what the optimum is, furthermore a big problem is the fact that all of these designs have an overhead, this issue was highlighted in the asymptotic analysis of the design that tended to a density of 4 belts per tile as the grid became infinitely tiled but the overhead made it substantially less dense in the actual implementation.

[@jockeril]

@AccessDen my mind is blown... you scientists figure it out and give us simpletons the end result to use 🙂 thank you for trying though - I idol your kind, I have some of the understanding but disabilities prevent me from being able to digest the rest, such is life...

[@oliphab7468]

I think for each given area the solution might be complicated, you'd probably have to prove an optimal pattern for each size.

[@robbematthys8213]

I noticed in the video the belt weaving was done always from output underground belt to same color input underground belt, this is not necessary. There might be manually findable longer belt weaves and more efficient storage?

[@RupertAndCheese]

I don't have the game so I can't confirm it works myself, but I see no reason you can't use a quality recycler to increase the quality of the asteroid chunks, effectively multiplying the science density of your chunk storage by 6 if you get them to legendary. On that same topic, you can bring higher quality eggs so they have a longer spoil time.

[@MichaelHendriks]

Legendary seems a bit of a long shot, but uncommon sounds doable. you'd need to collect about 15 asteroids to recycle it into 1 uncommon one I believe (25% yield from recycling and 24.8% chance to roll better quality). Depending on how hard it is to get the other ingredients at the corrseponding quality, it's probably more efficient to just make 15x the science at level 1.

[@Templarfreak]

@@MichaelHendriks afaik biter eggs arent so bad to quality grind (havent tried myself tho). legendary superconductors and carbon fiber arent so bad to get either (i do have some experience with that), but legendary processing units, tungsten carbide, and lithium plates, are quite a bit more difficult to get (couldnt say by how much except for the pu's which are definitely hard to grind, though)

[@jmatya]

A true Mike Hendriks video ❤

[@teno8943]

No Wonder the Engineer is 1 Ton heavy, with this large of a Brain.😅 I love how you break the game every time

[@jooot_6850]

Don't fuck with the Engineer dude one time I saw him enrich uranium by _hand._

[@casualflugel7666]

I i really like the amount of effort you put into this :)

[@DavidLindes]

21:21 (or so) is art! 😍 Also, this whole video... what an astoundingly well-done digest of all the stuff from your live-streams (which I've been watching).... You're outdoing yourself, and that's impressive!

[@MichaelHendriks]

Thanks David :)

[@GhostyPep]

4:21 microphone jumpscare

[@KeithOlson]

That is both awesome and hilarious. Thank you for sharing it. That being said, you missed the simplest reason for a triple/quad-woven belt: throughput when feeding assemblers/etc. with beacons. Using a single, perfect-ratio, woven sushi belt, you can pass through 90 items per second with a triple-weave and 150 with a quad-weave, all in a single tile strip *AND* have 8 beacons/assembler. ...or up to 300 items per second--using stack inserters--for a two-item recipe. ...or up to 600 items per second--using stack inserters--for a single-item recipe. (YMMV, obviously)

[@MichaelHendriks]

I haven't played around too much with fast recipes on legendary machinery/beacons yet (the endgame spaceship was the first instance of pretty fast machinery, but with slow-ish recipes of rocket-railgun ammo)... so yeah, food for thought!

[@ChillBoarder]

Love the Tutorial-Like Style ot this Video! :) Keep Going! Looking forward for your next Space Age Projects and Ideas.

[@KeppyKep]

Yay! Michael Hendriks getting increasingly unhinged is one of my favourite categories on KZbin!

[@nnm711]

I think the way devs "fix" this is to add +1 max underground length per quality level to all tiers of belts.

[@0thPAg]

Definitely. They really should add that but I think they won't.

[@MichaelHendriks]

That's not a fix, that's just making the "problem" worse! (presumably different quality same-colored belts won't connect either, so you can weave different quality greens and blues to make 6-8 different belts per horizontal line... I don't even wanna THINK about orthoganl weaving)

[@0thPAg]

@@MichaelHendriks Well I always end up weaving belts and it worked so nicely in .. Angel's & Bobs so I wish we had it here too.. They could add little color stripes to indicate what tier the belt it is.

[@cookies23z]

Extremely interesting video, sub'd. Love the belt weaving, cant wait to show my friend who hates weaving while I love it X)

[@8Ryosuke8]

Every game has its mad scientist theory crafting into infinity. Factorio has Michael, and I can't help myself to think he's even madder than the others. Love your work Mike!

[@defenastrator]

It seems to me by being even more cursed & making interlocking triple belt waves in 2 directions which are misaligned. This leaves an additional 2 slots in the weave (sometimes) to turn a belt's direction into the other wave direction. By waving the belts in diagonally processing rectangles. It should allow for type belts per tile while keeping the overhead on 2 sides. The tiling however would not be square

[@contomo5710]

the flashlight with an a... that seriously caught me off guard hahahaha

[@PinkPajamas464]

There is another belt weaving pattern that I came up with that only triple weaved, but had extra 4 blank spaces to work with to say... orthogonally weave with. It's: [RY][GG][BR][YB]____[RY][GG][BR][YB]. I have an example blueprint of it on factorioprints that holds about 145k promethium chunks. It only ends up being a little bit better than 3 belts per tile with the overhead, but since you can place rocket turrets inside of the tapestry, it can survive with nothing on both sides while in idle space. I think the flashlight design is better overall, but If you want to go into theoretically most efficient territory, there might be something there.

[@MichaelHendriks]

Nice! The flashlight belt weave design is only 42 tiles wide though, should be plenty enough to cover with turrets from the edges.

[@tottenhamukraine6774]

A masterpiece of the video! I watched the entire NPE, but still find this one awesome!

[@incognitor]

Solution to belt storage - make belt weaving a 20k Promethium science research.

[@polotello]

I’ve never brought bitter eggs to the edge of the solar system. I just get them when I’m back at Nauvis and process them on the fly. A rare cryo plant with 8 legendary T3 prod modules with speed beacon can produce 50 science pack per second. By the time I reach Aquilo, I already have 4.5k science pack. In the end, we always go back to Nauvis because biolabs can only be built there.

[@nosidenoside2458]

They should make infinity chests explode over a certain stack limit it would be funny

[@doomskull7549]

I've been playing space exploration for so long that i totally forgot beacon overload wasn't a vanilla mechanic, i was so confused at the start

[@АндрейМихайлов-м6ш]

Why do all the Factorio bloggers i know have such a wonderful accent?)))

[@101survivalist]

Watching this was emotional.

[@Frozen_Hope]

Impossible not to love this kinda jank too tho, creative storage choices being rewarded :) Also, gotta ask if there's gonna be a BP upload for the freighter?

[@MichaelHendriks]

discord

[@EvilNecroid]

21:16 thats a work of art

[@vega1287]

With the square tilable design i did come up with one that is bearly more efficient then 4 belts per tile, and. With size it does aproach 4 per tile. It uses a combination of red, blue and green belts. This tilable cell has a combination of 4 comums/rows of 3 belts per tile and 4 colums/rows of 1 belt per tile , so it only is above 4 per tile on average depending on alignement

[@mpeppelman]

Here's a suggestion for more belt density: Start with the 2d tiling red and blue belt setup. Upgrade to blue and green, and space every 4x4 block out so that there are 2 wide gaps between the blocks. Fill these 2 wide gaps with a 3 belt weave of the yellow, red, blue variety, but also upgrade them 1 level to bridge the gaps where 2 gaps lines intersect. This way, the 4x4 blocks have 4 belts per tile, the gabs between 4x4 blocks have 5 belts per tile, and the intersection of gaps have 6 belts per tile. That might boost the density a bit further, even with the edge overhead.

[@MichaelHendriks]

Good thinking! Already got that one, it's 4.4 belts per tile in the center. Tomorrow on 2nd channel a video and blueprint book will come out, with all the blueprints from this video and a bunch of improvements, including the current best of 4.756 belts per tile!

[@reubenbruce2061]

This would SCREAM at your RAM.

[@grayhill6728]

So happy to see an edited video on your channel again. Looking forward to the next series.

[@Ghi102]

What's interesting to me is that this doesn't really invalidate cargo bays. This belt weave method cannot deal with multiple types of items as well. You could make it a sushi belt, but there might be a significant delay before you actually get the item you want

[@ariebaudoin4824]

i have alraidy found a design that is more compact in the limit. this was also the first thing i started designing when i learned about promethium science, my design uses the superiour range of the blue and green belts with the mozaic tiling to fit 1 extra red belt per 4 green and blue, for a maximum of 4.25 belts per tile in the limit

[@sproins]

A video I didn't know I needed, but very glad exists. Also love the little jokes in the subtitles.

[@Hazmatt4700]

Dude, your editing and voice-over is exceptionally delightful. You have quickly overtaken nilaus as my most entertaining factorio creator.

[@MichaelHendriks]

Haha, I feel Nilaus and I are wildly different in playstyle and video style!

[@Hazmatt4700]

@MichaelHendriks indeed. But you both do quality video content. You are much funnier....but looks aren't everything. 😂

[@seanwarren9357]

Well.... Looks like New player experience will be a new sleep stream series to put on for 2025. Gonna sleep like a newborn. 😂

[@JustinLebar]

Not sure if this is common knowledge, but you can safely transport biter eggs into space by crafting them into productivity module 3's on land and then recycling them right before use. Of course you effectively only get 0.25 * 50 = 12.5 effective eggs per stack, as compared to 100 if you use "raw" eggs. I haven't tried recycling overgrowth soil, but assuming that works, it would actually be better than raw eggs. You get 10 * 100 * 0.25 = 250 eggs per stack. Takes a lot of rockets, especially if you don't want to craft overgrowth soil on Gleba, but maybe that's not a big deal.

[@MichaelHendriks]

Yeah I didn't test it myself either, but I have heard overgrowth soil recycling to store unspoilable biter eggs is a thing

[@shaunnolder7211]

After watching this, I believe I've glimpsed the fourth dimension, and it's incredible and horrifying at the same time.

[@jasonhermann7908]

I love factorio videos, but you made me love them even more. Excellent video!

[@Youbetternowatchthis]

There is a way to abuse this even more. When you make the stack horizontal you can tunnel vertical under it to increase it even more Edit: never mind he covers this

[@NinjaBaiano-br]

My dude gonna unlock the full planet recipe if he keeps storing all shards.😂

[@conficturaincarnatus1034]

16:44 I see what you did there 19:40 I have expected this yet my eyes are still bleeding

[@ioanbotez7128]

Wouldn't be a Michael Hendricks video without hand feeding massive storage buffers

[@ashkajioni]

Amazing work!

[@ICountFrom0]

Somebody needs to tell Zisteau that his particular kind of insanity has competition.

[@FarukAFeres]

since factorio is written in c++, and the dev are obsessed with performance. this "storage" is probably a integer indexed dinamic array. so 2^32

[@javierfafianalvarez2031]

Great Work! and great music selection, very difficult to see of lately. :-)

[@yangmungi]

edit: you can't set recipe via circuits if there's anything in output slots the arithmetic combinator has a modulus that you can use to make a instant recipe swap when the total sum of the materials in the circuit reaches a multiple also saw the comment of the timer based circuit after writing the prior version of the comment and that also works but would require some calculation for optimal load throughput otherwise

[@MichaelHendriks]

Can you confirm? To my limited knowledge/experiments a recipe swap will remove the old recipe, but not set the new recipe if there's anything in the output slots, instead leaving the machine with no recipe set.

[@yangmungi]

ah you're right, I never knew that. "unfortunate" that the devs thought of preventing this infinite storage hack

[@nielskorpel8860]

7:45 "quadrupled yet again"

[@jockeril]

well, this was not only fun and insightful, but very funny editing and commentary work - I love your videos, man - you are a smart and funny guy and it's fun to watch - don't ever change ! and thanks for all the 🐟

[@Tofufiche]

Congratulations, Dr. rer. belt. Hendriks! Your dissertation has been accepted and you can bear the title of Doctor rerum beltum from now on.

[@twitchy.mp3]

Oh god I dont want this fixed though 😢 this seems like the natural solution to the devs leaving the chest unusable in space

[@ethribin4188]

The output slot one definitely is an exploit. And its likely "easily" fixed if the inserters check if the output slots has the material they hold in it. Or the machine reinserts output slot items before allowing inserters to add anything in.

[@morpheus_uat]

this doesnt feel game breaking as much as casting legendary LDS to get 100% legendary copper and steel plate from 1 legendary coal but it doesnt feel legit, i have had my fun weaving the belts on my ships, but i find it morew exciting to mix both, belt weaving and biter egg transport, calculate the time it takes to get you to around 30km after the edge, and knowing that eggs lasts for 30 min before turning into uninvited guests is this more optimal than just going there to grab the asteroids and come back to nauvis? doubt it, is it more fun to do it this way? it is for me thanks for the belt weaving advices

[@MichaelHendriks]

That's exactly the point I'm trying to make: it's not strictly better or worse, just a different method, and it's an individual preference as to what method is the most fun.

[@bjornkonrad8007]

19:42 NO!

[@AlexanderBukh]

Massive stuff, love it, much kudos 🎉🎉🎉

[@DantheGerbil]

for faster infinity chest set up a mirror copy and paste to you just have to hotkey the the blueprint for faster recipe change instead of drag/drop/clicking individual machine, but dam thats fancy my man

[@Hlebuw3k]

I love belt weaving but damn is it annoying and impractical, especially when I want to upgrade all my belts in the whole base, so I don't use it. There's ways to belt weave with just one tier of conveyor, much less spaghetti but practical for planetary use cases.

[@thinkwave7801]

11:51 who let bro grow the factory 😭

[@Paangu]

I don’t even play factorio but I watched the entire video

[@devjock]

Omg we just turned endgame factorio mining into late game vampire survivors. BASED!

[@BleachWizz]

13:60 - that's not even required to finish the game... also, I got a better plan, for sure, nothing can go wrong I bet, you should try, look: belt weaving to move the EGGS to prometheum ;D since it'll be smaller you can carry more and faster. best plan. 10/10

[@ankowat6775]

I'm sorry. This is so cursed, I can only laugh lol. And boy did I laugh more and more as the video went on.

Make it possible to filter items by spoiled percentage using inserters and I'll be happy to try the racing approach.

[@6Twisted]

It never made sense to me that underground belt storage & delay doesn't scale with distance. PS The limit for output slots will probably be RAM. Each slot is its own item which has a ton of values that go with it.

[@OminimonHD]

you are indeed quite the mad scientist. great job

[@AbsurdPersistence]

Have you tried mixing up the colors? Like putting a yellow out into a red in to increase distance.

[@MichaelHendriks]

yeah, if you use 2 colors for 1 belt, you can no longer pass 4 belts through the same tile

[@jmarvins]

awesome video - looking forward to seeing how you find ways to challenge yourself with Space Age :}

[@mr.schmid]

Finally saying: I build myself a flashlight and it can hold a lot of load isnt sus anymore. Thanks!

[@emilspiller8808]

I feel like I’m watching a summoning salt video every time the design gets better 😂

[@NorbretNaszydłowski]

Belt Weaving is very useful on spaceships in space age