How Socionics Intertype Relations Work

I WROTE A BOOK:
Purchase the print paperback: www.amazon.com...
Purchase the ebook pdf: subjectobjectmi...
__________________
MERRY CHRISTMAS!!
I've realized it's a very good ides to WATCH MY ORIGINAL SOCIONICS VIDEO FIRST if you're at all unfamiliar with Socionics: • Socionics: an Introduc...
(ESTP Revisit will be next, hopefully soon)
Support me on Patreon!
/ michaelpierce
Video Script: subjectobjectmi...
Opening music: Franz Schubert's "String Quintet in C Major, Op. 163", provided royalty-free by musopen.org.

[@Faxtro1]

Anyone struggling to get a handle on all the topics due to information density might have a good time watching the video a second time. It sure helped me.

[@atomnous]

the way you explain cognitive functions within many scope of possible systems out there is fascinating to me. It's clear and simple, but actually adds deeper understanding to it.

[@MrZaw97]

All of these charts are really feeding my Ti and I love it lol

[@にちはHYPERSPACE]

Wouldn't appreciating charts drawn by another person mean that you value Extroverted Logic/Te over Ti? After all, they convey Pierce's logic, and not your own, which would be enough to make Ti egos skeptical.

[@lunamothhh]

I was just watching one of your socionics videos yesterday! Can't wait to watch this one. Endlessly intriguing content.

[@Ghost-zm1rk]

I don't agree with the order or the descriptions of each slot because that hasn't been my experience, I think the base needs more work. I think it's hard to create a formula for everyone because many people have different strengths and weaknesses but I do think the top 2 functions are definitely at the top and the opposite of the dominant function is naturally weak

[@Retrogamer71]

The picture is getting clearer.

[@にちはHYPERSPACE]

Agreed. The stars have certainly aligned.

[@LindaengelustrupBlogspot]

I don't want to speak on behalf of others to much but for my self I can say that his video has brought a whole new level of understanding to me since you explained the relation to the Ego, superego and ID which was some of the first things I learned about psychology and I allways wanted to know since I learnt about type theory. Thank you!

[@typesciencepersonality]

Thanks for doing such a good job breaking this down with graphics. Looking forward to your other videos on Socionics

[@LiteralCats]

Hope you can continue on explaining socionics while adding your take on it. And can't wait for your estp video!

[@122222770]

Your videos are really great. Heartfelt, yet supremely intellectually established. I think Socionics is the failure of Meyers Briggs however. We may be able to argue for patterns but each person in each situation is dramatically different. The ESTJ vs. INFP may be a bad interaction in work, but may completely work in a band or it may depend on age or intelligence or other factors.

[@AndrewT]

Yay! So glad you are doing videos on intertype relations. This is IMO the most intriguing and most practicable part of personality theory and as you say, 'A natural next step' in the process. Will you be doing individual videos on all the different types of relations (duality, conflicting, etc.)? I'd love to hear your insight regarding the logic behind the theories and whether or not it has matched up to reality in your experience.

[@aurarus]

Please continue with this with personal experiences as well maybe (or simple examples/ analogies) I feel like people will fall off early if they don't see the entertaining value of knowing about intertype relations.

[@Roogy88]

From what I understand, the Demonstrative function works very similarly to the heartbeat metaphor you used in your ISTJ Revisit video

[@themarquee1497]

Great video!! Very well explained! It contextualized a lot of issues I had with the MBTI.

[@TheGerogero]

Season's greetings, friends. :)

[@TeeTaan]

I have a really hard time following this video and your detailed descriptions. I think you, obviously, took a very Ti route to learn this system. Even though all of your points seem very interesting, the details seem to be far to many and to me unnecessary to know, since I prefer a quick but firm grasp on what is and what isn't, which is my Te pretty sure. Just an interesting observation. I am totally looking forward to more specific type relation videos about socionics! Maybe that'll make me appreciate and understand this system more in the future. The topic and your videos are interesting either way :)

[@josephmilberg6604]

Socionics itself is Ti-heavy.

[@pierre-olivierdion1642]

I'm not criticizing your video which is very informative as usual. This is more of a general comment on socionics. In my opinion socionics is a case of Ti going too far... Despite its elegance, there comes a point where logically categorizing something that is alive and breathing (like personality and relationships) just doesn't describe reality anymore. For example, being myself in a INFP-ISFJ relationship for a long time, the concept of Benefit relationship is not even an average way of describing our relation! In my experience the 4-function model avoids this trap of going too far.I don't know, maybe it just hasn't clicked yet. Anyway that you for this video again.

[@JackAaron]

It is important to make sure you are the same types in Socionics before utilising Socionics inter-type relations. If you are sure that you are an EII/INFj in Socionics and that your partner is SEI/ISFp, then we are in a position to mount empirical counter-evidence.

[@pierre-olivierdion1642]

Makes sense, I always took for granted that I am INFj and she's ISFp. In your opinion, where would I read the most accurate descriptions of the Socionics types?

[@josephmilberg6604]

These ones are rather good: www.sociotype.com/socionics/model_a/

[@Brenda-by9mf]

The closer you get to some particular issue, the more variables are being left out, thus the more abstract the picture gets. I´m an enfp Ne>Te>Fi>Si, your comment made me realise that this video was fullfilling my ti curiosity that much that I was just about to forget about all the other variables, thank you for the reminder. In the abstract world these theories are really interesting to me, but the truth is that applying them to the actual phisycal reality can get quite messy if not used with measure. Btw, may I aask you what result did you get? (If you did click on the link of the coment above) :)

[@JackAaron]

There may be some merit to your comparing the 4 Blocks to the 4 function stack of MBTI, but there are flaws in doing this. It is important to keep in mind that the 8th or Demonstrative function is the strongest function alongside the 1st or Leading. It is just unvalued. It operates largely in the background and is much more readily used than the Ignoring or 7th, which although strong, is used minimally. It should be 'larger' even than the rather subtle Creativer or 2nd function. Furthermore, it's important to remember that the Role function or 3rd is going to be used more readily, but more reluctantly than the Vulnerable function or 4th, and is more ready for use than the valued, but very weak Suggestive or 5th function. Ranking the functions by how capable they are, you can get this order: 1/8 > 2/7 > 3/6 > 4/5. Furthermore, it's important to note that a person most wilfully pushes both 1 and 6 making them appear the most obvious parts of a person. At the same time, they are most inclined to minimise use of 4 and 7.

[@Roogy88]

I was thinking the same thing. The bar he drew for the Demonstrative function in his chart seems rather small and doesn't give it enough credit for how important it really is. A person is good at using their Creative function, however, it still takes energy to use it. Meanwhile the Demonstrative, along with the Leading, is effortless and happens automatically and is constantly running, like the operating system of a computer. You could say a person's worldview is formed through the partnership of their 1st and 8th functions, one doing the primary perceiving and the other doing the primary judging. This occurs before the person involves any of the other functions into the matter, even the Creative. Despite one process being the priority (aka "valued"), everyone judges just as much as they perceive and vice versa. Of course, the person is hardly aware that the 8th function is doing half of the work, since it's unconscious.

[@BartholomewHenryAllen]

Consciousness holds the Ego as it's core factor. Precautious holds Superego as it's core factor. Unconscious holds the *SHADOW as it's core factor. Subconscious holds the *PERSONA as it's core factor.

[@Kyrmana]

Sweet! I just got into socionics this christmas

[@tairmimon]

I THINK YOU SHOULD INVESTIGATE HOW DIFFERENT FUNCTIONS PLAY A DIFFERENT ROLE IN THEIR POSITION. LIKE I'M AN ENTJ; AND I'M INTERESTED IN HOW MY NI FUNCTION WORKS IN THE CREATIVE ROLE. THANK YOU YOUR DOING AN AMAZING AND INTERESTING JOB

[@uchennaofoegbu8687]

Great video but when will the ESTP video be up?

[@yeghor]

@2:04 I believe it would be a better representation to stack all the conscious functions to one side of the vertical axis and the unconscious to the other. That might even give some rough idea about the relative strength of each function. (I'd suggest for instance that if dominant function is 8x then auxiliary might be 4x, tertiary 2x and inferior 1x. Furthermore, it might be assumed that once developed shadow dominant has 1/3 the strength of dominant i.e. 8/3, which is more or less as strong as the auxiliary) @4:15 There's something messed up with the socionics theory. When I review their type descriptions, I notice that INFp (which is supposed to be MBTI INFJ) is describing MBTI INFP. Secondly, I believe the vulnerable function in socionics correspond to the inferior function in MBTI. Someone bombarding my vulnerable/inferior function with input of the respective kind would trigger stress response in me (and that should be Se for MBTI INFJ, which does not hold up for socionics INFp but perhaps socionics INFj) @5:32 I beg to differ on that. Ni is actually suppressed Ne. Hence an Ni-dom enjoys Ne and wants to express it more freely (but could not while growing up because the environment was not welcoming thus he had to learn to suppress/control it) I believe ,contrary to convention, socionics versus MBTI function relations should be reviewed/corrected as follows: Conscious Lead - dominant Creative - auxiliary Role - Tertiary Vulnerable (PoLR) - inferior Unconscious Suggestive - shadow dominant (Ne for Ni-doms) (Note that it is called the dual-seeking function) Mobilizing - shadow auxiliary Demonstrative - shadow tertiary Ignoring - shadow inferior

[@AndreasDevig]

Hmmm, you sure about that? As an INFP, I find myself very repulsed by macho power play (Se) and people who smile or laugh all the time (Fe). I don't value these things a lot. I value politeness and non-violence, not "fun" people.

[@amandathompson8539]

Including dimensionality in future videos would be wonderful. It'd also give spatial understanding if you represent it with the blocks - especially what you said about the demonstrative being as integral to the type as their lead function.

[@TrantaLocked]

Weird because I find my supervision interactions to be very positive (INFP with ESFP and ENTP)

[@xezene1]

Because they are. For you, they are. If you feel that they are positive, nothing is higher than your own real experience. In no regard should a theoretical construct overrule your actual experience of your life. Just because a theoretical construct has the ability to successfully explain things does not mean it is true. So, I say: trust your own experience, and let the theoretical construct remain as just that.

[@maxpepelongstocking8616]

@B Shape possibly because INFP (if you mean Fi Ne) has the same Cognitive style to ENTP. Search up "Socionics Cognitive Styles"

[@laotzunami]

The model A blocks do not correlate to MBTI "functions". You function stack is only related to the ego and super-id MBTI -> Model A Dominat -> 1. Base Auxialray -> 2. Creative Tertiary -> 6. Mobilizing Inferior -> 5. Suggestive These four are "valued" functions, information that either defines (Ego) or supports (Super-Id) your worldview The unvalued function (Super-Ego and Id) is what MBTI leaves out. Maybe you guys call them shadow functions in Bebe's model, but I haven't looked into it.

[@122222770]

Your videos are really awesome!

[@bogusshmogus1670]

we definitely have all functions. it's just a matter of if we are going to use them or not. I'm an ENTJ so I use Te for everything and so am very effective at doing so. Still any human being can think, "What's the most effective way of getting this done? " though the further down on the stack you go, the less effective their use of Te will be. if it is let's say their 8th function, it will be so innefective that they will likely ALWAYS make mistakes when trying to use it under pressure. Though we still can use the bottom four affect if we go about it in a conscious way. For example, I make my dad coffee every morning, a Fe type of thing to do. This is an example of me thinking and consciously putting Fe to work. Though let's say I'm in a conversation with someone and I want to leave or do something that I think may be inappropriate, I may attempt to use Fe to keep the peace and so stay in the conversation or not to the thing. Though being an ENTJ, I will typically be so unconscious of Fe that I will fail to recognize the fact that maybe I can just leave the conversation or do the thing, while a dominant Fe will have long before understood that. It's almost as if we have blinders on to things the deeper they are in our stack. Things that are prevalent in our reality will go completely unnoticed. While atleast in the the top four funtions we have some connection to them, the bottom four happen almost entirely behind the scenes.

[@bogusshmogus1670]

The bottom four are unconscious because if we use the top four correctly, they are taken care of. I use Ni to go, "if I make my dad dad coffe every morning, he will likely feel this way about me. " and so I am effectively using Fe without actually using it and vice versa. The same happens with every function. and their opposite.

[@TheNAtchison]

The graph for socionics is a bit confusing for me in terms of showing the strengths of each functions. If the longer the bar is, the stronger it is, I don't know why role function is weaker than vulnerable and demonstrative function is the forth weakest. I heard that demonstrative function is a four dimensional function and is the second strongest, while role function is 2 dimensional and vulnerable only 1 dimensional. Meanwhile the higher the dimension the stronger a function is. As someone who's identifying with INFJ in socionics, I feel my Fi is strong and almost uncontrollable. It's something that either drive my creativity or freezes me and causing me a lot of pain so I have a love/hate relationship with it. In addition, for my Si role function, I feel I can handle it at my own pace although ignoring it most of the time, while get irritated when people mention it. For Te vulnerable, the descriptions about it are those that I can understand the least and I'm guessing it manifests as my attitudes of not trusting systems like schools, governments and market to be able to help me reach my potentials. My Fi wants to crush them all.

[@JackAaron]

I like this video. One remark... It seems rather likely that Damon would be ESTp/SLE in Socionics, rather than ENTj/LIE. This, if you are an INFp/IEI in Socionics, would make him your dual, rather than supervisor.

[@JellycarpPhD]

At 10:58 The 3 and the 5 on the diagram on the left are mistakenly swapped.

[@zulu2885]

thanks a tonne really did elucidate it all

[@kriegerdeslichtsx]

can you do a video on the relations between socionics and careers ? , i'm an intj for example and i know i am made to "observe" and make theories , and apply each variable of the theory to my advantage to get a certain outcome , that's how i work . but what job actually is based on that ? i guess a video on this topic is very hard to make since it requires a lot of research ,but it would be nonetheless an extremely useful one .

[@typesciencepersonality]

Computer programming is accessible, in-demand, and lucrative. It fits very well with the way INTJ's think.

[@marcusvoneckermann]

I really need to address something here. I really enjoy your videos Michael. But you should know you occasionally use the wrong "relation". This is of course according to the map of intertype relations from socionics and I do not posses the knowledge to see if I'm missing out of something here! In either case it creates a great deal of confusion for me. In the intertype relations chart it says that the INFJ and the ENTJ has a semi-dual relation. Not a supervisor/supervisee relation. In another video you did you write correctly in the video INFP but you said INFJ etc. I know that you said in one of your videos that you did not have proper knowledge about this. So I get it.. but I just need to get clear on what's going on.

[@sirbradfordofhousejones]

Insert math lady meme here-> _____ Ti is hard! 😆

[@pebblebrookbooks4852]

🎄🎁

[@SapereAude1490]

Michael Pierce, I have a challenge for you. Type Howard Shore. He did a IAmA on reddit.

[@ibrahimtencer6903]

This video has a lot of issues. First of all you can't just bolt on socionics concepts to the MBTI model, there are too many differences (not least of which is the number of functions). It would be better if you just started from scratch. Second, and more importantly, it doesn't even mention that IM elements are goals. Their different priorities in Model A (the "function stack") are what results in the intertype relations. These are not mere "preferences" like favorite colors or foods, they are an inherent psychological asymmetry.

[@franscine1232]

But Damon's an SLE in Socionics.

[@MichaelPiercePhilosophy]

Wait, really?? Did he retype himself recently? (did he say it in a video, if so I'm embarrassed I didn't hear it) ...I mean...I still think that he's ENTJ in the MBTI notation...but I think my points in this video still stand if he isn't. The example I gave just wasn't good.

[@choonblaze]

Aux devalued and tertiary overvalued? Where did you invent this nonsense xD

[@thomashh55]

Wonderfull video, except the part where you say that 4 function model is mapped to 8 function model by ego being dominant, id being auxiliary etc.. it doesnt work that way because if you have dominant Ni or Fe, than not Ne or Fi can be your auxiliary, I think you overreached there, to just appear nice, but it isnt logical,, I believe that 8 function model is mapped to 4 function model just the way you showed that picture at the beginning, that mbti just shows first 4 functions and the others are not prefered, but have such power as a little portion of their oposite direction function, just like in the picture,, that would be logical now

[@TehG3cko]

Still no ESTP. Why do you hate us so much?

[@Silikone]

Something something Donald Trump.

[@TehG3cko]

TheForging545 You are wrong though. He is ESTP

[@TehG3cko]

Trump has Fi Vulnerable and Fe Mobilizing. As an ESTP does. Which means he hates Fi, and he uses Fe a lot to get what he wants, but isn't proficient in using it. ESTJs Have Fi suggestive and Fe role. Which means they are not good at Fi but they values it(something Trump doesn't do.) And they dislike Fe. So an ESTJ would probably not like Trump so much since they would find all the Fe he exceeds childish. "He's much too stiff to me." Literally means nothing.

[@TehG3cko]

Sukkat David Good think MBTI is about guessing. You fit right in.

[@TehG3cko]

Sukkat David Wow, what a special snowflake. Btw a guess is not a thought of value. When you have more than just a guess come back and we can have a discussion.