Microsoft Loop vs Notion: Let the Battle Commence!

[@petri]

Could Microsoft Loop unseat Notion in the productivity space? Let me know what you think below.

[@AdamsTaiwan]

I've had Loop access for a long while now, just didn't complete it because of the work requirements and it's still not open to private individuals. I took a look at Obsidian (too geeky) and lastly Notion (agree geeky too). I think it's going to be hard for me to move away from OneNote. I've used it for years and all my data is there. I usually have 6 OneNote windows open across 3 virtual desktops (for Home/Work) and then it comes with me on my phone. Notion is closer to an IETM App I created back in 2008 so it's nice to see an app that can create pages fast with database capabilities.

[@amonkane]

I'm just trying it out and the first thing I notice is that a table in Loop is just a table and not a database like in Notion. That severely limits its uses. Yes, apparently you can create a Loop component around it but still it brings no extra functionality other than share it with other apps or persons. I also was expecting that creating a table in Loop would bring some of that Excel goodness but apart of providing you with a sum or an average on columns with numbers there's nothing. This app is still new but it's disappointing nevertheless. It certainly isn't a replacement to Notion yet.

[@petri]

@@amonkane Indeed. A table is a table. And not even with much Excel goodness. But still, it's early days. And MS does have all the database goodness in its Lists app, so could port that functionality to Loop in the future.

[@mercutio8869]

Asking things this way is not responsible. You miss the elephant in the room : doing your subject like this is to be ok that MS steal other people ideas and business. Shame on you

[@amonkane]

@Mer Cutio Maybe you're new to this but this is how competition works. One cannot patent concepts like this. Notion found a sound manner in how to quickly construct a data set, in an user friendly manner. They still are miles ahead of MS in this regard. Yes, eventually someone else is going to copy this and this will force Notion to innovate. It says a lot that a behemoth like MS, which already has a lot of apps and programs to integrate a good note taking tool into, can't manage to do this and that's to the advantage of Notion. Big cooperations move slowly, small and nimble companies can move quicker.

[@fabianabrandaoalvessilva2936]

I've been used Notion as the main tool for productivity for 3 yr. The pivotal point that can make loop win this run is integrations. Loop could conect to outlook, calendar, teams for example. But otday Notion even can't sinc to other agenda

[@petri]

Yes, integration with other Microsoft 365 services, like Outlook and Teams, is a killer feature for Loop.

[@Userssssssssssssssssss]

@@petri Sad its like a 99% copy of notion but I agree the integrations with outlook, ... is kinda the thing that notion was missing for me

[@j.lucasdecastroaraujo761]

If they also make it integrate with Excel, Word, files from OneDrive it will be a huge bonus. I already have 365, if they release loop with copilot for free or reasonable pricing it would be really worth it to make the change from Notion to 365 entirely. I already link some OneDrive files to Notion, having Loop + Calandar + OneDrive and Office integration with most systems that notion have would be phenomenal.

[@petri]

What do you mean 'integrate with Excel, Word', etc exactly? Do you mean the ability to add Loop components to Excel and Word?

[@mikedsjr]

I just jumped on Notion about 4 months ago. I still have a lot of work to do on it but that’s because I am new to database design. What makes notion appealing is its database, database view options, the customization of covers and icon, and the wysiwyg ability. I don’t know Microsoft will allow that. Hopefully they will. Currently I don’t care for their art style for a work environment. It looks more like a kids toy.

[@petri]

I think Microsoft will eventually add database features. It will be a question of how to integrate Microsoft Lists into Loop without making it too complicated. The design is more 'Apple' like I think. And that seems to be where Microsoft is headed with Windows too.

[@SoroushTorkian]

Genius move on Microsoft's part. Was wondering why they haven't done it decades ago and why other companies haven't took it that seriously until notion

[@petri]

Let's see how this works out for Microsoft 😊

[@geogeoworld]

I think confluence is a very early innovator, but they just stayed there without further improvement.

[@franck8087]

Thanks for the video ! Integration with 365 is awesome but without database feature Notion stay ahead

[@petri]

Glad it was useful!

[@AndreasDuessca]

It's Slack all over again - MS copies successful competitors and then makes the functionality available to their established market. Loop is very basic at the moment, but is already showing a lot of promise.

[@petri]

Yes. Although Slack is still alive and kicking 😊

[@donaldli4755]

When a company, like Notion, takes forever to integrate Google Calendar naturally. It's basically asking for death sentence. Unless the other features were to be implemented terribly, the natural integration of GPT alone would blow Notion away with ease. That's the problem - being the smaller guy, pushing yourself is not enough, pushing yourself much harder to the point that you are irreplaceable is barely enough for MS to buy you out.

[@Sowar]

See also: Asana and Microsoft Project

[@Noor-hd5nf]

Microsoft sees what has market, copies it and makes it better. C# is an example.

[@petri]

@@Noor-hd5nf Yes. I guess it's just the reality of being in this space. Interesting about C#.

[@justoncheney7172]

I don't use notion... I'm curious about the comparison to OneNote. They are obviously different, but Loop seems like a different style on OneNote but I'm probably just ignorant.

[@petri]

I would say OneNote lends itself more to tablet users who literally draw onto a canvas. But Loop, like Notion, is more structured in how information on a canvas is organized.

[@vla_music_ai]

Yes definitely. Microsoft has an established customer base in the corporate world. Every organisation that uses ms products will eventually use loop. Notion however can benefit for being the underdog and push them to innovate more. That said, and being a notion user my self I think loop is lacking features yet ,like the toggled menus which I just can’t live without them personally

[@petri]

A bit of competition never hurt for sure. The problems for Notion might start if Microsoft makes Loop available as a consumer app. I know the toggle menus are a favorite feature for many in Notion. I'm surprised MS didn't try to copy that out of the gate 😊

[@norbertbenedekffy]

That can be the only reason why corporations would use loop, because they already use ms packages. Notion is and I think always will be better. Since I'm forced to work with microsoft at my job, I'm pretty annoyed by almost every tool of theirs, compared to google for example, which is lightyears in advance. They have "luck" with openai, buying chatGPT was a very good decision and that can/will help them close the gap, but somehow they don't have that good feeling of the product, the ux and ui are almost always never up to date sadly.

[@petri]

@@norbertbenedekffy I wouldn't agree that Google is lightyears ahead. I don't think Google has anything that really competes with Teams for example. Only Google Meet, which is an evolution of Google Hangouts. Which was terrible. Microsoft invested in OpenAI, it didn't buy ChatGPT.

[@norbertbenedekffy]

@@petri Yes, I know they invested only, but what I've meant is that they use OpenAI to boost their products. In regard to teams, there's slack, discord and basically any other tool that you can find online. Teams bugs out pretty frequently, and it has issues like showing statuses wrong, etc. But can you compare UX and UI of Microsoft with Google?

[@petri]

@@norbertbenedekffy Yes. Microsoft UI and UX is generally cleaner and better thought out than anything Google produces IMO. Discord isn't really a Teams competitor. Slack yes. But while Teams may be far from perfect, I still think it's more intuitive for most people to use than Slack.

[@HomesickMac]

Another hardcore Notion user here, but at my day job we're going fully over to Office365 where they'll certainly activate Loop very soon. Great walkthrough, thanks. Until Loop becomes full fledged app and somehow integrates with Lists/Excel, in other words - makes something similar to relational databases like in Notion, I'll be suspicious.... On the critical side, imho the plosives from your microphone are rather disturbing through the video. The hardware is an industry standard but I'd kindly suggest increasing the distance from the mic, angling it a bit more, thus avoiding to talk straight into it. There's no pop filter that will eliminate plosives if you're that close. If the mic would be placed at an angle where you're close but having it on the side, a slight gain increase could solve it as well. Cheers!

[@petri]

Thanks for the comments. I agree, some kind of database feature has to be added to make Loop a serious competitor to Notion. Regarding the plosives, it's not an easy problem to solve. Move the mic much further away and the room reverb becomes disturbing instead as it's not acoustically treated. The solution will probably be a post processing echo remover - not ideal either but an ok compromise.

[@steveroussos1293]

Sometimes it helps if you place a pencil in between

[@HomesickMac]

@Petri IT Knowledgebase I hear you... when you're mentioning the room reverb. In that case I'd suggest just angling the microphone away from where the air is coming out from your mouth. I'm following several KZbinrs who are knowledgeable and use different mics in different ways, Tom Buck and Podcastmeister among others. Tom is always having an angle even when using the Shure SM7B that's not even that sensitive to plosives. Myself I'm using the Shure MV7 in my livestreams, just outside the frame and above my head, some 25-30cm away and pointed a little in front of my mouth. The rest of the chain is a RodeCaster Pro II with 69db of gain, Broadcast preset, nothing else. I have used, in other video productions, the FinalCut Pro's new features where the room reverb needs to be addressed, it worked really nice when taming a voice recorded in a production hall.. that was .."reverbey".. Cheers!

[@petri]

@@HomesickMac Thanks for the tips! We'll try to get it sorted out 😊

[@petri]

@@steveroussos1293 Good idea ))

[@macmac1934]

Thanks for sharing, what app did use for animation at 0:55

[@petri]

Not sure what you are referring to exactly. But probably the b roll, which is from Microsoft. I didn't create it.

[@TCakes]

You could easily do something like that with jitter and figma

[@aw6238]

is there a toggle feature?

[@petri]

No, not as far as I'm aware. At least, not at this time.

[@belkamax05]

Is design was completely stolen from Notion, or M$ pays revenues 🤔

[@petri]

Not sure that will work out. Although Notion might be able to claim unfair competition if Loop is bundled free with M365.

[@SaraPhillips-ek5re]

did anybody see the Zoom announcement Zoom Docs.... it's pretty much Notion, i wonder if it is on the back end?

[@igormatic7896]

Thank you, really great explained. Do we know already something about the Loop license and price? will this be included in some of the existing License Plans (M365 E1, E3, E5) or it will be a Standalone License?

[@petri]

Microsoft doesn't usually reveal licensing for products until they are out of preview. Having said that, I wouldn't expect Microsoft to charge for this beyond what subscribers are already paying.

[@vukin]

Another joke app in MS zoo. Half done, quarter usefull

[@firmanardi4008]

when i can get the ms loop as native or online apps?

[@petri]

There's no native app. You can use the app in a browser at loop.microsoft.com

[@danielpeti3885]

I’m a notion user for the last 2 years but calendar sync would be a dealbreaker for me.

[@petri]

You mean no calendar sync?

[@danielpeti3885]

@@petri I mean I would switch to loop if calendar sync is implemented

[@GregCo72]

It's very basic right now. Unless they incorporate database like capabilities like Notion, Notion is safe. I really wanted to replace notion but there is no way it's even close right now.

[@petri]

Indeed. There's still a lot of work to do. But it's not a bad start IMO.

[@mercutio8869]

@@petriis this video sponsored by MS ?

[@akio6505]

Where is Loop data be stored?

[@petri]

Loop components are stored in OneDrive as .loop/.fluid files.

[@apatrick6186]

Hello Comment Section! I'm doing some market research for a school project regarding collaboration and Microsoft Loop/Notion. I would be super grateful to have some questions answered about how you collaborate, issues you have with Microsoft Loop and/or Notion and any information that you're willing to share. Please reach out to me if you're interested in sharing your experiences and thoughts. Thank you for reading :)

[@JoeCastellon]

Definitely will be long into this 😲

[@tomkwon1440]

I'm an excel guy, and if I can link my excel I'm moving

[@petri]

No direct linking for Excel at the moment. Not sure if that's really on the cards for Loop.

[@djahandrews]

didnt watch video so i cant say anything about that. but please make that shelf more cozy, add some books, mini plant and a hue light

[@petri]

Couldn't agree more!

[@dr.ahmedal-yousif7398]

Is open AI free with Microsoft ?

[@petri]

A.I. features come in different forms across Microsoft's services. In Bing, it's free and will likely remain so. In Microsoft 365 applications, where it's called Copilot, it remains to be seen if it will be available in full to all subscription plans. I doubt it somehow.

[@NazmusLabs]

Thanks for the videi; very helpful. I guess I’ll try out notion thanks to the database feature. May Allah (S.W.T.) guide you and bestow upon you His Blessings; Ameen.

[@petri]

Happy to help!

[@Zjaan321]

5% Done. 95% to go before it can compete with Notion.

[@petri]

Sure, it's quite basic at the moment.

[@Escandella118]

Notion can be used by anyone. Is Loop free? I don't have and won't ever have Microsoft 365.

[@petri]

Loop is only available in preview to Microsoft 365 subscribers at the moment. We don't know whether in the future Microsoft will make Loop available for free as a standalone app. We'll have to wait and see.

[@mylife-ni8bn]

Will Microsoft be sued by Notion?

[@petri]

I don't know. But visually, Loop certainly 'borrows' a lot from Notion. Some might say steals. But then this practice has gone on really ever since the 1960s in technology.

[@sayednab]

Notion is a bit overhyped imo. also the interface is too busy and confusing for my tasting.

[@petri]

I agree about the interface. That's what always bothers me about Slack too. Notion and Slack both have UIs that seem to me to be designed for geeks, not normal human beings 😊 Microsoft does a much better job with UIs IMO.

[@Sub0x-x40]

microsoft will take over becasue they will just force there customer base onto loop lol

[@petri]

Just as Teams didn't necessarily replace Slack, I think there will still be a market for Notion. Not all organizations want to be all in on Microsoft 365.

[@DieMeneer]

The way this guy seriously says its not a carbon copy of Notion LOL. If this isn't a carbon copy then what? Would they have had to call it MS Notion#? Its literally a staight up clone in every way lets not mince words, still pretty cool for the potential integrations but acting like MS didn't straight up steal the idea is just plain dishonest.

[@petri]

Yes, of course MS stole the main idea. No argument there. And the UI is clearly taken from Notion. But they way Loop components work is different from how Notion functions. So, if you consider how Loop works behind the scenes, it's not a direct copy.

[@Sub0x-x40]

google should just buy notion

[@AndreasDuessca]

Please no. They would ruin it in no time and then close it down.

[@HomesickMac]

Maybe you meant Microsoft..? ;-)? In any case, they'd destroyed it too...

[@Nostalgia404]

You cant upload files in loop 👎👎👎

[@petri]

Not directly, it seems. But you can add files that have been uploaded to SharePoint and OneDrive.

[@Nostalgia404]

@@petri you cant add them, you can link to them and it opens up in new browser

[@petri]

@@Nostalgia404 Sure. But is that really a problem?

[@Nostalgia404]

@@petri yes....

[@petri]

@@Nostalgia404 I guess 😊I think an upload feature that puts the file in OneDrive and provides a link in Loop would be a compromise?

[@yahyaazzawawy3333]

@Microsoft365

[@mirandastuart3993]

If they add database features from Notion and integrates word/excel to loop in a way that I can use it without having to change apps I would move 🫣