Microsoft Surface Pro 4: Tasteful Upgrades

[@MostlyRCSlovakia]

I got this to my wife. She is a teacher and she loves it. Got the i5/8GB version with keyboard and pen and it is really great experience to use. Great video again!

[@LaptopRetrospective]

Glad that she is happy with it. I can see it being very useful especially with the pen.

[@MostlyRCSlovakia]

@@LaptopRetrospective yes it is. She uses the pen while presenting during online class to highlight stuff. Its really a great piece of tech still after those years. And yeah, no flickergate in our case thankfully :) I got it refurbed for 499 Euros here.

[@LaptopRetrospective]

That's awesome!

[@jackf1684]

Truly I’m not surprised how Microsoft still doesn’t acknowledge issues. The Surface Laptop 3 spontaneously cracking with no pressure was a HUGE issue with the aluminum model, because the glass would rest against the metal and would just crack. Microsoft was quiet for some time there. And my Surface Laptop 3 suffered from coil whine, there is a huge thread on SL3 Problems and it’s about the “buzzing noise” Last time I checked there were 10K answers or users complaining about the same issue and Microsoft is indirectly telling us the basic stuff of “change power plans” and “reinstall windows” and that’s why i returned it. A premium device upwards of $999 shouldn’t have stupid issues like coil whine. The surface laptop go with nearly the same i5 doesn’t have any coil whine when I had one.

[@LaptopRetrospective]

Yeah, been a history of touch and go. I'm not sure I can hear coil whine, at least not that subtle ones.

[@jackf1684]

@@LaptopRetrospective Some of their new Ice Lake products suffer from it, most notably the worst is the i5 model of the Surface Pro 7. It's without a fan so it's clearly audible

[@MikeDancy]

I got one of these. The i5 4GB / 128GB with keyboard and pen. I paid $150 CDN :)

[@LaptopRetrospective]

Nice bargain!

[@khaleequrrahman]

@@LaptopRetrospective thats a reasonable price inbox bought a laptop for me surface pro 5 and ship it ill give you money

[@bookofdaveandsteve]

Bought 2 used pro 4s. Both of the screens were fine at first, then died - classic flicker gate. I know anecdotes aren't data, but I wouldn't recommend this model, unless the screen had been replaced already.

[@LaptopRetrospective]

How long ago was it? I'm curious as it might help build a better/stronger picture about the long term implications. With the amount of devices that we know about being impacted I wonder about bad batches and vendors.

[@bookofdaveandsteve]

@@LaptopRetrospective one bought at the beginning of 2019, the other at the end of 2019. Both the i5 8gb model. They both had or developed noisy fans too. Not an issue with the passively cooled models like yours or the 2017/6 lower end models though! It's a shame because as you say the 4 otherwise has compelling value at that price point.

[@LaptopRetrospective]

Thanks for the additional information!

[@bookofdaveandsteve]

@@LaptopRetrospective my pleasure. Thanks for all the great content!

[@LaptopRetrospective]

People like you commenting with your experiences make it better than great. 👍

[@90FirstGenPGT]

Not sure if I missed the "Tasteful upgrades" section of the video, but are you going to discuss the process to upgrade the RAM and Storage? Or is there another video on this?

[@LaptopRetrospective]

The tasteful upgrade was in reference to comparing the device against the Pro 3. RAM is soldered and the SSD can be replaced but involves removing the screen which isn't a trivial affair for the average person.

[@90FirstGenPGT]

@@LaptopRetrospective ah okay. My mistake for the misunderstanding

[@LaptopRetrospective]

No problem! It could have been clearer. Hope I was able to answer your question even a little bit. 😁

[@90FirstGenPGT]

@@LaptopRetrospective You have. Thank you for the quick response. My company has surface pro 4s with the i5 6400 processor and 4gigs of ram that im interested in possibly getting. 128gb storage.

[@LaptopRetrospective]

Gotcha. Yeah most people treat them as "sealed" units because they aren't super easy to upgrade.

[@anonymoose9038]

"Make sure the screen is flicker free". To be fair to everyone, the flickering issue starts when it gets hot. You wont see it right on start up. You fix it by getting a surface pro 5 screen and replacing it with that.

[@ralphm6901]

I'm getting a flicker in the bottom 4 or 5 pixel rows and it doesn't seem to be getting particularly hot. Is it going to get worse, or just live with it?

[@LaptopRetrospective]

Be prepared for it to get worse.

[@ralphm6901]

@@LaptopRetrospective according to HWiNFO, it's a Samsung display from 2015. I would have thought all the buggy ones would have been turned in years ago. I got this one from BackMarket less than two months ago. They have a one-year warranty that may or may not cover replacement.

[@j.lietka9406]

Is the 1724 the "4" model? So the u5 & i7 models have a (single) cooling fan inside? What model came with the 512GB M.2? The i5 & i7? I got a hold of a 1724 (an e-waste dumpster find!) but the screen is gone (maybe still in the dumpster?). It has a single fan (also found an earlier Surface Win 8.1, also in terrible shape!) marked 512 GB. Thank you 🤓

[@LaptopRetrospective]

Correct, the 1724 is a Pro 4.

[@j.lietka9406]

@@LaptopRetrospective cool! Thank you the Win 10 on the device, is it a certain version for tablets? Also, can the Pro 4 be upgraded to Win 11?

[@LaptopRetrospective]

@j.lietka9406 Standard Windows install. Officially 11 is not supported. Tiny 11 or other custom ISO files might work.

[@j.lietka9406]

@@LaptopRetrospective I have heard of Tiny 11, but don't know what all it can be used on! Thank you

[@LaptopRetrospective]

@j.lietka9406 I've seen it run well on a ThinkPad X201.

[@chriswalker5729]

Wife purchased a used one of these from her work. Got it home, set it up for automatic updates and the touch screen immediately stopped working. Are you saying the screen replacement "fixes" this? Because after contacting Microsoft and being told "sorry about your luck", they gave her the site to do the updates from them. Now, the keyboard attachment does not work. The ports still do so you have to use a mouse, but I will NEVER spend money with Microsoft again.

[@LaptopRetrospective]

That's very strange indeed. Was it refurbished I wonder? The only thing I can think of is perhaps the parts were replaced and used modified drivers and when it updated from the official sources something went wrong? This is speculative of course.

[@chriswalker5729]

@@LaptopRetrospective It was not refurbished. I am not computer tech savvy, but the fix was sent to her by microsoft that she installed. I have googled it and there are a bunch of threads showing the same problems. According to her, what you covered in this video is the fix for the tablet. She believes the keyboard is old and the contacts may be damaged internally. She is going to try a known good one to see if that is the case. But at what point is a used $120 computer not worth it? But thanks for your input on this.

[@LaptopRetrospective]

@@chriswalker5729 The keyboards can wear out, especially where they bend/fold. It sounds like something is amiss with the screen or the touch module. Is $120 (I presume USD) what she paid for it from her workplace?

[@pedroads7683]

Does it good to get i5 with 4gb of ram ?

[@LaptopRetrospective]

That depends on your usage. 8GB for me would be the minimum.

[@markunion9156]

Would anyone know a fix for the front camera? I got the code 10 error and my front camera doesn't work I've gone through a few trouble shooting solutions already and nothing seems to work

[@LaptopRetrospective]

Try booting into a live USB of a Linux distro to make sure it isn't related to drivers or three OS.

[@markunion9156]

@@LaptopRetrospective Im really starting to think it's the camera itself. Every basic troubleshoot I thought would fix it. I bought mined used just yesterday and updating the OS for the original owner didn't work. I bought it for a really good price. The IR camera works. I don't know anything much about Linux and I know just basic stuff with troubleshooting, I think maybe the drivers are just mixed up. Thx for the advice, I have to get into zoom meetings with this laptop so I bought a external camera for now but really not wanting to carry around an external camera.

[@LaptopRetrospective]

Making a live USB of Linux isn't too difficult and will confirm if it is drivers or hardware failure. You'd just create it on a USB, boot from the USB and try to open up a camera app. No installation needed. If it works, you know it's driver related. If it doesn't, then it's probably hardware failure. The IR camera is on the same array, but isn't the same camera.

[@markunion9156]

@@LaptopRetrospective so I'd have to just download Linux onto a USB and restart it using the USB? I'll try to look it up how to do it..

[@dobbsbld]

Are the SSD drives 128gb upgradable?

[@ralphm6901]

I've seen a teardown / screen replacement video where the drive is an M2 NVME that can be swapped out. You have to lift the screen off to get to it, though, which can be tedious and may crack the screen. In this video at around 5:15 there's a long, narrow silvery plate that covers the SSD. If you need more space immediately, the microSD slot is SDXC, which is good for 1Tb or higher. I have a 1Tb card in mine.

[@jayshreeparekh5517]

can surface pro 4 6th gen 4gb RAM and 128 gb ssd be upgraded to 8or 16 GB RAMand 1tb ssd ?

[@LaptopRetrospective]

RAM I'm pretty sure is soldered. SSD is replaceable I believe.

[@all4cyrus]

I'm considering getting this for digital art, but the flickergate terrifies me. Found a really good deal for the 8gb ram, 256gb version, but I really don't want to have to constantly worry about it eventually breaking down.

[@LaptopRetrospective]

Chances are good if it hasn't failed yet it won't. That's isn't a guarantee of course but if you get a good deal on it then it might hold you over until you save up.

[@all4cyrus]

@@LaptopRetrospective It's an 8gb ram, 256gb ssd and core i5 variant with keyboard and new pen. I am concerned because it will be my main computer for sometime, and I'll be using it to draw for hours.

[@LaptopRetrospective]

If you aren't in a position to take the risk, then the safe thing to do is not take the risk. If you save a little while longer you can likely get a newer model that doesn't have the issue. Really depends on what you have to spend and when you need it.

[@all4cyrus]

@@LaptopRetrospective thank you for the advice.

[@Dr_Ender]

I want your opinion lads. Dont know if ill get a reply but ill shoot my shot lol. Ive got a sp4, i7 variant with 16gb ram. It has a red bar with a white padlock, took it to a repair place and they said its a corrupted bios(i believe it is as well after all the troubleshooting ive done). They said its around 150-200 to repair since it needs a new motherboard(apparently you cant replace bios chips on surface pros). History lesson over, my question is would it be worth paying that much to fix it? Im looking at sp4 models and they are going for 300-600 used depending on the model.

[@LaptopRetrospective]

That icon usually means something to do with Secure Boot and the settings on the BIOS. Have you tried the troubleshooting key presses to get into the BIOS? If it does come down to a repair, I'd try and find a shop that does component level repair. If a shop doesn't have the tools and skills to swap a BIOS chip, if it can be done, replacing the whole board means replacing all the parts soldered on.

[@Dr_Ender]

@@LaptopRetrospective Ive tried all the button combinations, its just stuck on that padlock screen. Cant boot into bios either. I tried recovery usbs but It doesnt seem to be reading it. For instance, my usb has a led indicator when its "active", that doesnt turn on at all when i boot up. I do want to take to more repair places, $200 seems a bit much for a corrupted bios, ill keep an eye out for a shop that does component level repair. I appreciate the fast reply btw. I wasnt expecting one lol

[@LaptopRetrospective]

Best of luck on your repair. $200 isn't the worst but it might be steep for an older device. That's assuming all your high end hardware would be the same.

[@Dr_Ender]

@@LaptopRetrospective Thanks ill need it lol.

[@khaleequrrahman]

in pakistan still so expensive i bought surface pro 4 that touch not working in 256 canadiandian dollar without pen only type cover

[@LaptopRetrospective]

Yeah regional pricing and availability are always factors.

[@khaleequrrahman]

@@LaptopRetrospective ​ yeah I have a question my laptop touch not working because its digiizer broken may be but only a short part of touch working if i bought a pen can it working on my laptop please wait for your reply. its a humble request>.....

[@LaptopRetrospective]

Are you asking if the touch screen isn't working right will a pen?

[@khaleequrrahman]

@@LaptopRetrospective yeah if a touch screen not working then we able to use pen or not

[@LaptopRetrospective]

I don't think so. The N-trig board of a part of the screen and that reads the pen inputs.

[@ikkanwahyuny947]

Which one is better? Surface pro 4 i7 or thinkpad x1 tablet gen2 i7? 🤔

[@LaptopRetrospective]

If I remember right the i7 in the X1 Tablet isn't just a regular i7? So it will really depend on what you want to do with a computer in this form factor.

[@anthonyswan2928]

Wondered is the 8gig Ram good enough for Teams meetings?

[@LaptopRetrospective]

It should be good enough for that but obviously how many other tasks you might be doing in the background will be the real thing to watch.

[@_Digitalguy]

I really like this series... The only thing I would tend to disagree with is battery life... Even new it struggled to get to 6 hours... With the pro 4 MS actually reduced the size of the battery compared to the pro 3... then increased it with the pro 5 to bigger than the pro 3... then decreased it again with the pro 7, and increased it again with the pro 7 + to the highest capacity so far...

[@LaptopRetrospective]

You're right on that. Battery life will vary especially in used devices as they have worn. I believe the one I have had it's battery replaced at the same time as the screen. Reducing the battery size was a step back for sure. Probably didn't feel it as bad on the m processor but who wants that when you can have an i5.

[@_Digitalguy]

@@LaptopRetrospective Honestly the problem with the m3 was not the CPU speed, it was decent compared to the dual core skylake i5, but rather the 4GB RAM and, to some extent, the 128GB storage.... Also, skylake had quite a few issues, especially the first year, with the laptop not managing to remain in stand-by... (the first surface book had the same issue).

[@LaptopRetrospective]

I think I also read about the 4 having that issue? Good point in the 4GB of RAM, that's a real bottleneck.

[@esseferio]

I agree with you about the quite short battery life, even when new. That, and the fact that the battery drains quite fast when the laptop is unplugged while it's OFF (which, by the look of Microsoft support forums, I'm not the only one to suffer :)). That's the only gripe I have, the battery. Other than that, it's still a fantastic machine, screen is gorgeous, the keyboard is quite comfy, trackpad is great and the pen support is quite OK (although I don't use that that much).

[@ToddBryantsr]

Great video. Can the Surface Pro 4 record Zoom Calls in Game Mode (Windows + G) ?

[@LaptopRetrospective]

I don't use Game Mode but OBS would probably do it with little difficulty. 8GB of RAM might be nice to have for the smoothest experience.

[@rtcurtis5858]

I bought a new i5/256gb in 2016. Didn't use it much for three years. When I did , noticed the battery discharging when off. Microsoft was useless. Put it in for a "flickergate claim" and they replaced it without delay. Just use it on the desk with power plugged in and keyboard cover. It works quite favorably, with a really sharp webcam.

[@LaptopRetrospective]

Glad you got it sorted.

[@keitharputham7588]

If I am using microsoft teams and onenote and 2 tabs in Google how will your system handle it.Will it be come to heavy and cause hangs?

[@LaptopRetrospective]

Should be okay. Assuming you're not on a meeting doing all of that at the same time.

[@keitharputham7588]

@@LaptopRetrospective in your opinion is it good for student in college

[@LaptopRetrospective]

What are you studying? Do you need the battery to last all day without charging?

[@keitharputham7588]

@@LaptopRetrospective about 3 to 4 hours without charging

[@LaptopRetrospective]

If the battery is healthy then it should be okay. If it has significant wear then that might be an issue. Batteries aren't impossible to service but do involve the removal of the screen which can be tricky unless you have the right tools and skill.

[@muhammadfirdhaus226]

Which one do you recommend. SP3 i5/8gb or SP4/4gb or thinkpad x1 tablet 2nd gen?

[@LaptopRetrospective]

The X1 Tablets are pretty cool but the CPU strengths vary depending on the model. What is ultimately going to be your use for the machine?

[@muhammadfirdhaus226]

@@LaptopRetrospective just browsing, light office work, netflix and forex trading probably. X1 tablet that i’m looking at is the i5-7y57. All of them have similar price here

[@LaptopRetrospective]

I would steer away from anything with 4GB of RAM, you'll feel that. If they are all similarly priced then condition and accessories included would be my next considerations.

[@muhammadfirdhaus226]

@@LaptopRetrospective yes i think 4gb of ram is a bit low in today standard as well. What about the performance between the i5 of SP3 and i5 of x1 tablet? Is there any huge difference between them?

[@LaptopRetrospective]

Do you know the specific i5 in the Surface?

[@nitromaster6259]

Very good video!

[@LaptopRetrospective]

Thank you!

[@briandong7584]

My SP4 got flickering screen issue. Believe many many people experienced this product design issue. Very disappointed, Microsoft should recall their defective product, why we have to pay for the repair or giving a used replacement. It really sucked. Never and ever buy Microsoft hardware product, they are not a qualified hardware company.

[@LaptopRetrospective]

They've made mistakes, no question about it. Their newer ones don't seem to have the problem so I think it is safe to say they've improved over time.

[@nitromaster6259]

@@LaptopRetrospective does the pro 5 have flickergate? Currently maybe buying a Sp4 pro with i7, 512gb, 16gb ram for 240€

[@LaptopRetrospective]

Not to my knowledge. I believe Flickergate was the Pro 4 only.