Mid Lane Hero Tier List | Patch 7.25c Dota 2

[@oyuyuy]

"Why don't you just pick Meepo at that point?" Well... BECAUSE I COULDN'T PLAY MEEPO IF MY LIFE DEPENDED ON IT

[@Gerraint]

Same.. Also, I'm too lazy to train that hero

[@alpargataconflores2412]

Its easy with autocast

meepo is not hard dude

[@KidTrigger]

Carl turn on autocrat and meepo will be easy af I’m not even exaggerating

[@LoLgenious]

Great vid, but as a suggestion: when talking about cheese & toptier picks, could you (in future vids) maybe point out ways to counter them (or take more time to talk about this) ? I feel like your prolevel knowledge of the game makes you (occasionally) take that sort of info for granted. Truth be told, i feel like this tierlist very much reflects what ppl pick at my mmr, so seeing these heroes here doesn't really surprise me - what i really would be interested in, is how these super popular heroes interact with one another (who does well or poor against/alongside whom) and why they do so. I think I remember you pointing out in another vid how AA counters Huskar and that was such a great help to me - stuff like that is of course fluid, as it depends on what character is viable at any point in time. Metagamereport vids like these tierlists could maybe reflect this and talk about good counters within the context of a specific patch/meta. Anyway, thanks for the great content and keep it up! (also, stay healthy)

[@believer0322]

Max precisely my thoughts and if they do make these changes to the tierlist videos it would elevate this series to S+ tier in terms of dota content

[@photominded9063]

Hey man, I'm nowhere near Jenkins' MMR, but I could point out a few for you. For Meepo, any good AOE lockdown supports own. Warlock, Witch Doctor, Earth Shaker and Wynter Wyven all do really well. For cores, think heroes like QOP, Naga Siren. Items like Spirit Vessel also help, as it halts his healing. Venomancer is also a decent pick. For Huskar, you really want to think about 2 things - cancelling his passive/healing OR disarming him. Support heroes such as Venomancer, AA, Ogre Magi and Wynter Wyven are decent and any hero that can build vessel also does really well. Any form of chain stun is also a good choice. For core heroes Something like a Pugna or Legion Commander can do really well. For BroodMother you need to deal with quite a few things. Her pushing power/map presence can be quite annoying, so you will need mobile heroes as well as heroes who can easily deal with her spiderlings as well as her right clicks. Natures prophet is a decent pick as he deals with her push, has better map presence and can scale just as well. His ultimate, if cast correctly will always wipe out her spiderlings if she is in vision and he builds items that do well against her. Other heroes such as dazzle, naga, sven and kunkka also do well. For Timbersaw any good magic and/or burst damage does well. Heroes such as lina, lion, viper, venomancer, QOP, Ember Spirit, Void Spirit and AA will deal with him quite easily. Items such as Spirit Vessel and Silver's Edge also do wonders. For Alchemist, same items and heroes as for Timbersaw and Huskar work well. Hopefully you are getting the common theme here when it comes to "tanky" or "unkillable" heroes here. ClockWork is another honourable hero here who counters or does well against alot of the current pub mids. Hope this helps you. GLHF!

[@dotatipsntricks]

We can DEFINITELY do this. Thanks a lot for the suggestion and all the thumbs ups. Really great idea.

[@Akagra007]

I'm not a very high skilled player, Crusader 5 to be precise but I recently crushed mid-Meepo by Death Prophit. U just need to Spirit Siphon him (if he comes on top of you during Laning stage) and then run back to your own tower. Play with your team (all 5) whenever you have your ult ready and just ask your teammates to protect you in your ult time. EZ team wipe in every team fight. Transition your fight to nearby towers and win.

[@KidTrigger]

Max mee pow meepos biggest counter is anti mage with mjrorir and battlefurry huskies biggest counter is Templar assassin with desk can burst huskar before his health affects him brood mother’s biggest counter is sniper is desi and Daedalus one shots little spiders and timbers biggest counter is pa which does so much damage that his reactive armour doesn’t matter

[@Chintok11]

Also, QOP is so hot.

[@Andytlp]

aaaaahahahahaaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaa.

[@asecmimosas4536]

No. You and Gorgc are wrong!

[@ranggamasli8974]

losing to pixels, shame on u.

[@blankx15]

@@ranggamasli8974 He is just a man of culture. Shame on you.

[@stealthboy5767]

Lol I was gonna say that

[@sinafrm]

u should make a guide about how to deal with cheese heroes gameplay wise, i think from 1k to 5k we all need it

[@aka-47pro59]

The reason why they are cheese is because they will overtake your game no matter what unless you pick a hero specifically to counter them. The thing about cheesing now is that it's even more effective since cheese picks are last picks and you can't last pick counter because you don't know the enemy hero. If the enemy picks a cheese and knows how to make it work, you lose the game. That's cheese. You can't counter them, best possibility is play around it to enable your team and hope maybe you can drag out the game long enough that you have close farm and can win some teamfights and take the advantage over but then remember, it's actually pretty hard to do that.

[@homelesstogreatness6626]

You might wanna suggest swapping lanes. Like for example you have a safelane sven/alche/ember or offlane LC/centaur/Brewmaster and you're a sniper mid against a last pick brood. Works sometimes.

[@11Yaten]

Just pick cheese heroes urself

[@edch.4908]

Mista ^ this guy has a point. And I can totally agree with this because for me I used to dislike picking cheese heroes but if you want to gain mmr it has to be done.

[@11Yaten]

@@edch.4908 ye i gained like 1500 mmr picking chen beastmaster and lone druid (currently im around 5k mmr)

[@Gabrielbarsch]

wheres pudge?

[@superlollzz1]

Gabriel Barsch Very funny, everyone knows pudge is a hard support

[@Schleberger]

Grief-tier

[@sinw88]

superlollzz1 no man pudge is the best pos4 in the gsme

[@Gabrielbarsch]

@@sinw88 r/whoosh

[@bojii3703]

Only heralds pick pudge mid

[@waterunderthebridge2291]

"I've seen Chris Luck playing Mirana in Mid" Also heroes that Chris Luck play in Mid: Disruptor, Slark, Lion, Riki

[@faviolaura9403]

ive senn chris luck lose vs top 300 players

[@MOC504]

riki mid is pretty good tho

[@rabbid-runner8626]

Bounty hunter too now haha

[@calebfudrums]

I still like Puck in large part because heroes like QoP and voidspirit are trending - coil is insane against high mobility heroes and phase shift can be used to completely mitigate qop's daggers in lane

[@pranavkumar5532]

I wish Valve made a system where you could export these lists and import them into your game.

[@armiddle29]

You actually can, there's a JSON file in dota folder with all these settings Steam/userdata//570/remote/cfg/hero_grid_config.json

[@nikolamrmos571]

Hmmmm i guess system your looking for is a part of human brain its called memory :)

[@Blankp1anet]

Please don't start doing that thing where you randomly show a part of the video in the first few seconds.

[@ver93]

it's to keep people watching

[@akbarputraa7574]

@@shantorrejos2774 kekw

[@Blankp1anet]

DarkRaiser982 yeah I know what it’s for but it’s so overused and it doesn’t really suit the types of videos they do. And Shans right, Jenkins’ intro’s are great. Was sad there wasn’t one this vid

[@saltysoju]

*BlitzSpanks walks in* WHY ISNT MY WAIFU S-RANK U PLEB JENKINS???

[@aboutvinn]

TA is S rank no?

[@roronoazoro-lh1jz]

@@aboutvinn for blitzspanks no mater how nerfed its s rank

[@saltysoju]

@@aboutvinn the ta trend is going down a bit

[@techiesithastobetechies.8531]

@@aboutvinn Blitz's waifu is Broodmother

[@dbk8814]

Is speed and Jenkins the same guy

[@chokirooo]

make a hero tier list for position 4

[@jamesthegreat763]

rub so op

[@josephatallah6196]

Im just spamming invoker tbh, low mmr though. Got me from guardian 5 to crusader 3 in like 6 days, on a 8 win streak rn with him

[@jamesthegreat763]

@@josephatallah6196 It's really hard to play pos4 invo, so bad in early laning stage,

[@sadyakubovich]

@@josephatallah6196 invo 4 is really bad at early trades, any pos 5 can just kick him out of a lane and then pressure on your pos 3

[@Gerraint]

@@josephatallah6196 this won't work on higher MMR.. He's so bad in early and easily countered by bkb in late

[@jerry-ni1ir]

25:23 truer words has never been said.

[@mattiaswennerhult9451]

I once went up as Axe vs Brood mid on like accident and stomped it. I've tried it three times now and its the same, ez mid. Is that because I'm in the shit trench and spider players there are awful or is that a real thing?

[@christiangonzaga9774]

Axe mid is like timber, earthshaker, or tide mid. Counters brood pretty hard

[@Huge_Homer]

I think what really makes QoP mid so good is that she distracts the enemy, and they don’t have a teammate to break them free from her enchanting seduction.

[@ErrolBeats]

what does the cheese tier list mean??

[@Xanthopathy]

wait, y'all are doing a ranking video before a first impression one?

[@Dontlagmebro]

Gotta get that clickbait.

[@smbvms]

I'm assuming this was pre-recorded and ready to be uploaded. Havent finished watching though

[@Mokachika]

I am a bloodseeker spammer and i would say that he is much much better at mid lane rather than safe lane. You have really almost no losing matchups. Spam only second spell on lane creeps and burst them down, you can kill really easy small jungle camps without missing any lane creeps after min 2. Just switch between lane and jungle camps and i get around 100 cs for 10 min in 90% of my matchups. Something that is impossible for safe lane. I am Divine rank and i have 64% wr from 450 games with bs

[@willeremes4465]

@Dotaalchemy how good is pugna against a skywrath mage in mid? Does he win against sky if you max out the ward or smth

[@TheWicker666]

1 or 2 points in the ward is plenty. Sky wont dare to throw bolts at you, coz it hurts him more than it hurt you

[@Huge_Homer]

What do you think about Rubick mid? It might sound kinda strange, but if you can do fine until level seven, you’ll be able to shred the other midlander, since you will be able to have multiple level four spells at once and then totally out damage them. I think he is also a very strong roamer. I don’t know though, he may just be a better pos 4 pick, and you can get countered by some other popular midland picks.

[@Lucifron327]

I had some success with QoP as a 4 as well (since i somehow remember you mention it), BM + Eul's /Aghs works pretty well and the dagger and the damage from blade mail feel insane.

[@goink3368]

Can you define what cheese is. I kinda get the idea but still am not sure about what cheese heroes are

[@photominded9063]

Jenkins. I really agree with you when saying that some of the A/S Tiers can own the Cheese picks, heroes like void and ember spirit who have high mechanical potential and are never really shut down as they hit level timings and not item timings still do so well when it comes to gaining mmr. Recently I have started spamming Ember, Void and Storm Spirit and I have gained over 600 MMR. Just as a side note - Do you not think Monkey King is still a viable mid laner? Love the videos as always, thanks for all the insight.

[@yusri2674]

I think viper would be nice if you focus on 2nd and 3rd skills in mid lane, it will ease your lane. His 2nd skill really pain in the ass and 3rd skill really can counter like qop’s 1st skill.

[@AndresPerez-fs5hj]

Is it possible to see this tier guides on the game? Like the other heroe guides

[@regandonohue1782]

I just realise Jenkins looks like bloody James May

[@hanscliftonang2131]

How about Professor X James Mcavoy

[@darrenmelanson07]

ive been running pitlord mid and been having some nice success with it, with 7.25c and the nerfs to the regen starting build i might not have the same success tho. I found pitlord was just about to farm farm farm and get two or three items but 25 mins and then you can just 5 man and run them down cause youre such a big front liner

[@skandalond]

Great video, I really liked elevated trying to speak more throughout the video

[@kodokraksasa6564]

"This hero has so many things that he can do such as when you're playing ember and you feel the game is unplayable, it probably just means you didnt do the right build." Puck : Prepare your anus

[@emilioencisocarrillo7406]

Hi guys,great video . Where in the Tier list whould you put dazzel mid with the build of necro AND aghanim?

[@FernandoHCst]

Aghs is not good

[@emilioencisocarrillo7406]

But aghs make you auto atk when you cast a spell covine whith your 60 damage talent AND desolator or crystalys and you make high damege

[@GuilhermeSilva-vj8dx]

What is a cheese hero?

[@michaelwambaugh6726]

Is qop position 4-able now?

[@st.heavenz]

You should've put dazzle :) i spam dazzle mid and it can beat all of those heroes depending on your item choice and skill choices :). Especially all those heroes in your A/S tiers etc can easily beaten by dazzle mid. I can only feel dazzle 50/50(but dont lose) at lane vs puck, viper and quas wex invoker, but dazzle farms pretty fast when reaches certain lvl especially if u get or necromicon your gpm x2 x3 and u can snowball your item to greaves while fighting :). Its also counters alche lycan meepo huskar in your cheesy tiers. Alche can manage to farm at lvl 6 but dazz can have tons of items by that and snowball alche in his own jungle. Same with vs huskar i usually max poison and heal but when vs huskar i put lvl 1 grave at 4 making my skill 3 1 1 so when hes aggressive i go man fight huskar and he dies bc i got grave first exp is on mine and i dominate mids after that. Vs meepo brood heal bomb is gg. Dazzle mid is on legendary list :) cd reduc at 6 is big esp if u got necro alr and greaves

[@MrRhinorocket]

I do enjoy these tier lists, but im not able to sit down and watch for 36 minutes about it all. if you could make them into 10 to 15minute videos, that would be perfect

[@patterusp]

great list looking forward to support tier lists

[@VENOM11011]

Yeah, tier lists could be pretty much a gold mine for you guys, keep it up!

[@godsoffice5714]

Dota 2 community when bragging about Dota 2: "We have 134 heroes free without any additional fee." Current meta: "Play this 59 meta heroes only or you lose."

[@Gerraint]

Valve "Here.. Pick this only 5 hero or you lose.. Lmao"

[@Feisty123]

Meh only really true for very high level games, doesn't hold for most people

[@lj5604]

how do u cut wave when playing ember versus huskar? can someone explain it

[@Eloquence-48-002]

Boots first into ring of prot while maxing flame shield then you jungle until next wave

[@deathpyre42]

Ever try the necro book build on sniper? It actually feels really nice with the book buffs.

[@sontiyo7113]

that build got nerfed like 2 days after rpeople started running it

[@Xanthopathy]

what's the deal with necro? I don't understand why so many people are building it

[@ikigai2738]

@@Xanthopathy amplifies farm has good stats

[@RyanSmith-mz1rp]

if you just get some levels and damage you farm fast anyways

[@TheOrbitalDropShock]

@@Xanthopathy The necro units do pierce damage which means that they kill creeps really fast. Level 1 necrobook is essentially a better hand of midas.

[@LieutenantSteel]

I enjoy these tier list videos but I always wonder why you don't agree on which heroes make each tier before the video; it would mean you can still discuss why one of you might have put it higher or lower but it would just feel more consistent if you weren't changing it on the fly and it was set at the start.

[@sibu1234567]

Where's sf? I'm unsure but he seems still viable for mid. Anyone tried pango mid? I had like 7 games and lost like 4 of em. Realize that you have to rush javalin with him. To sustain in lane isn't easy. Tried building ring on him which helps but delays your javalin. Haven't tried bottle with him. Maybe if he secure runes much it's worth it but against all these qops whatsoever I'd still rather run him off. What starting items and what do people build mid pango into? I've tried threads mael into basher or mkb I ain't too sure. Thoughts?

[@buthr6221]

I think Pango is good against melee/attack based heroes. And I think rushing Bottle is way better

[@muhammadhamdanfatah2084]

Pango outdamage any melee carry and some melee mid hero at early game with good damage , good animation attack and lucky shot armor reduction. He have disarm too witch help him to distrub enemy farm but he is bad against who can outburst and out manuver him like a windranger and puck also bottle is very good for ganking and fast farming

[@muhammadhamdanfatah2084]

You can fight against alche , mars, DK , lycan but all S tier midlanner will wreck him better put him on offlane or roamer

[@NontonSaja_in]

Me playing dota : Pos 1 - Pos 5 play ogre only...

[@Seishiro...]

i would want to hear more opinion on my favourite hero Invoker

[@torsti4791]

I would love to get complete game tutorials on the different cheese heroes so that we could learn how to stomp games with the maximum possible cheese.

[@yashayevlakhov3]

Tganks for rating exort kael so low, cause he won't be picked that much, but Sumiya's orchid into bkb and Daedalus build is pretty broken on 5500-6000 mmr (or lower) Would like to have this explained :3

[@washow]

Surprised you guys didn't talk anything about the big meepo change. Still s tier regardless?

[@ggdot1234]

watched entire video waiting for you to talk about SF. well played.

[@dotatipsntricks]

o shit WHOOPS. ill do it here. I think he's a high skill hero, but super squishy and killable, and doesn't exactly carry like you'd want a hero like him to (he farms like a TA but does not carry like a TA). However, he's really good in certain match-ups such as versus OD, and definitely a decent hero, but certainly not broken and I think the pro level pub winrate shows that.

[@raiyanahmed8427]

Plz make a build guide on ember what to build when and what not to build

[@noobmlg6533]

When dp's ghosts going to dp they not dealing any dmg...am I wrong? wtf

[@nicholasstella2269]

these are amazing lists thank you so much for them

[@ThePainewu]

where is the alch?

[@Tonsgaard303]

"Exort voker is to the point of griefing" Sumiya: Am I a joke to you?

[@johnywex373]

He's so good at that hero plus he play mostly in lower mmr games than his actual skill level. His exort invok struggles a lot in his real bracket.

[@psnankanysla221]

@@johnywex373 because his ign is literally "sumiya" so the players at his bracket just insta pick invo counter, he mainly plays other heroes in his main acc.

[@chikiboi]

Hahahaha

[@techiesithastobetechies.8531]

The intro before the intro was good and the intro after the intro was good The intro 0:13

[@hkmrsrg1367]

I play QoP support all the time. Her dagger is lane winning.

[@philipp66693]

@DotaAlchemy or other in here in comments Isn't Monkey King also a cheese pick hero in some sense??

[@Mirrale]

I'm a big fan of you guys, but I need to point out that this is prob a 7.25b list that was sadly made right before c came out. I know it would suck to have to throw a vid away, but maybe a quick discussion of the update changes should be amended it if it's going to be titled 7.25c

[@techiesithastobetechies.8531]

Yes I like looking at Jenkins face and no Storm Spirit isn't B-tier, he isn't bad, if you commit to farming until your blood stone at 18 minutes then it's a hard big beeeeg big big spike, "Lirelary cannot die" and can farm faster, and take a dead lane and split push, and so many things.

[@jamesmelanson1696]

can you please show a replay of notail playing ember as a 5 id like to watch you guys commentate on it

[@1darkmesiah1]

What about Skywrath Mage ?

[@GrandoBorbon]

What is better a-cheese or s-tier?

[@2K_Curse]

ta ember qop dp dumpster A cheese heroes. S cheese heroes are better though.

[@neothypp]

what does S means? Super ?

[@louislujan7402]

I miss this guys soo much

[@Venomousse]

Well, Meepo just got hit hard by the nerfhammer. Still pickable I think but if you're not already a strong Meepo player it might not be worth learning at this point.

[@chronos5940]

Lmao Jenkins has a good point with Henry's mmr. He spams puck.

[@blackfangofargentina]

timestamp?

[@chronos5940]

@@blackfangofargentina 25:05

[@davidluna9555]

How about skywrath?

[@Pa3an]

Nice vid. Thanks for the tips always. Any giveaway item? 😇😊

[@nekiTamoLik889]

i dont get it mepo is nerfed now and how he is in S tier

[@cero8885]

I think viper is decent as a 5 cause with nethertoxin you can counter many heros and can take the dangeeous farm cause you dont have to show much.

[@Anonymous-zb5kq]

Tiny played in every game in the Ti 9 final, nowhere to be found on any tier list why?

[@josephatallah6196]

Nerfed to hell

[@mattiaswennerhult9451]

24:00 ish min. Suck the bear. SUCK THE BEAR! The f###k. lol

[@homelesstogreatness6626]

I've been enjoying arc warden lately with a really greedy build necronomicon+ midas with a meme abyssal blade as 5th or 6th item.

[@drennyb]

yep me too. i enjoy playing arc warden at mid. wins me games

[@lucasmccauley3995]

As an offlane player I refuse to let the mid lane take my pango and my mars

[@KidTrigger]

My best mid heroes viper, bloodseeker, gyro and razor are so low ☹️

[@akbarputraa7574]

Jenkins review herald replay from sea server plox

[@ccrze]

Next mid lane hero tier list Henry should be with you guys!

[@Painbow]

I came for the Tier list but I stayed for Jenkins' face.

[@Lennart0705]

Can you do a Video on why some heroes are cheese and how to counter them?

[@1Jack22]

What happend to kunnka for him to be B? Same for SF.

[@ashkanrahimi620]

Really waiting for the sup tier lists , i wanna try the support role and i wanna do it well

[@michaellauchenauer6117]

if lesh just gets a tiny little bit better in the lane, the hero would be absolutely bonkers

[@hoyinlee4]

can we get a tier list for hard support and support please

[@crydoc5276]

My boy just skipped OD like he is nothing

[@grapefruitrunning]

Don't tell people notail took ember as a support. We don't need people in pubs to know about that

[@dimensionalblade2778]

29:20 Someone call TOPSON these guys need to get rekt.

[@stkrd1467]

Monkey mid man monkey mid

[@caccac2412]

Not all players can play mk like how topson plays mk

[@marineguy2286]

Topson also plays Earth Spirit mid, you probably missed that.

[@stkrd1467]

@@caccac2412 I mean it's easy, I play monkey mid and I easily win lane just abuse jinguu to harass and farm. And I'm a 4k scrub people are way better than me

[@caccac2412]

@@stkrd1467 point is, not everyone can play those heroes at topson level lol. Sure ur gameplay works on that rank but higher ranks? Idk

[@arthurmorgan8454]

should I show u how I boosted 3 accounts spamming sky mid?? lol guys sky should be there, maybe in the B tier atleast, do u not realize how hard he dumpsters most of the high rated heroes u have there?? hes literally the best assassin in the game, if I find an enemy solo pushing hes literally DELETED no need any help from teammates, just need 2 items...ROD OF ATOS, HEX.....I cant count the number of times ive deleted a hero in 2 seconds, that is not a joke its strong, if you can delete an enemy hero how can u lose 4 v 5?? of course they can counter u with bkb manta etc...which is why ive put him in B or C tier, but you can play around those items if u get HEX, blink in hex and rod silence ulti kaboom deleted in an instant....his move speed needs a mention as well...that lvl 10 talent + get boots of travel pls best item for sky( I rush first item depending on the game and its insane, becoz fights constantly happen this meta and he can join any fight like tinker) push the lane go back to base refill mana tp wherever u find kill opportunity, own them, push that lane, walk to the base, I mean run to the base, pls check how fast he is with travel + ms talent....repeat,,,, its goddamn fun and good too

[@derekbeecham6289]

Boosted to what 2k MMR? Sky can't farm, one stun kills him and bkb completely shuts him down. No escape mechanic no farm mechanic bottom line

[@egrassa1480]

@@derekbeecham6289 blade mail also

[@arthurmorgan8454]

I totally agree with your points, yes he can't farm fast, yes he's squishy, yes he's countered by bkb blademail manta forcestaff, which is why I said he should be in the b or c class, but if you have good positioning and quick hands you can make it work, my only problem was atleast he should be mentioned on the list....which hero can boast of deleting a single target in 2 seconds think about it, if you have the skills to make it work you can do it, he can counter bkb blademail buyers but you need quick reaction and mainly a hex, coz if you jump from fog and hex and use your spells I guarantee 99% heroes will get instantly deleted

[@arthurmorgan8454]

@@derekbeecham6289 no need for bad mouthing son, if you can't have a normal conversation I'd suggest you to fuck off, and yea i boosted 3 herald accounts with sky upto 4k, it gets harder above that obviously, I don't pick him when I know I'm going up against good players

[@brunonunes5975]

you forgot about the shadow shaman mid on the S tier

[@damonhage7451]

So I’m shit but I’ve been running alche safe lane and it’s been working out. 4.3k, 75% win rate abouts.

[@LarryFoulkePL]

Still can't figure out how to lane vs necro, feels like shrekts me all the time, making 5 man 17 min in-game possible and good - looking at list - C-Tier. FeelsWeirdMan :(

[@MultiEpicism]

get vessel then hes nothing

[@mathijs]

on 3:38 you hear somebody's doorbell? First I thought, wait is that my own? :P

[@bigsad4027]

and please please make counters for all these heroes and how to play against them

[@HangryTwins]

I can’t believe you don’t think pudge is a mid hero

[@sirkyan9463]

and now there is 7.25c and meepo probably sucks compared to before the patch I used to spaam meepo but I feel to bad for my enemys to abuse this hero at the moment cause I got cheesed a lot my self

[@bennymaybe6772]

dire side Medusa is insane .. u hit your timings so fast

[@avonixTheOne]

What build. Mid or safe?

[@bennymaybe6772]

@@avonixTheOne mid

[@avonixTheOne]

Details please!!!

[@lewisbirkett4428]

I've been crushing it with blood and razor mid. Sad to see him so low

[@slickmullet3891]

Lewis Birkett if your crushing with it at your mmr then don’t even worry about this list. Just pick what works for you.

[@DaMoK7757]

*Sad Medusa and Viper main noises*

[@mummyreturns6188]

pos 1 tier list?

[@streetguru9350]

Pugna is straight broken, laning against SF always sucks on like 90% of mids due to raze combos.

[@imfortitude435]

I was vs a morph the other day as a Luna and just used ultimate to burst him down. I’m a low tier player but found this effective multiple times. Also had a Cw stampede so I could keep up if he ran away. Is this normal and a smart play?

[@skandalond]

More tierlists please

[@TKIvanov]

Im 3k and I've been playing a lot of Viper lately. Don't know about in higher mmr, but where im at it is 100% A-tier.

[@hwdp2558]

Lol 3k here and no it's definitely not A tier here either. The hero doesn't gank, doesn't farm fast anymore, doesn't scale that well either. All he is good for is winning lane but who cares if you play a hero that can farm jungle fast you can just ignore the lane and still outfarm the viper easily

[@TKIvanov]

@@hwdp2558 Yeah, no.

[@hwdp2558]

@@TKIvanov No what?

[@czdeltasummoner1108]

I THINK PLAYING CLINKZ AS 4 AND RUSHING DIFFU IS BROKEN AND HE OWNS CARRIES IN LANES WITH SEERING ARROWS WITH MEDALION/BLIGHT STONE AND YOU CAN STILL PICK A TRADITIONAL OFFLANER

[@czdeltasummoner1108]

With dark pact eating the large neutrals in lvl 1 and giving you armor reduction in attacks he basically owns lanes without skele walk and acts like a mirana that gets extra exp in large neutrals, once he hits lvl 6-7(considering that your position 5 is strong you can get lvl 6 at 10 mins) he's like a another roaming midlaner. With being online at lvl 6 you and your midlaner can just go ga king at the safelane like crazy and gaining a shit ton of perma damage and during team fights in the late game you are like no doubtly a 2nd carry/mid.