Mid-powered Emtb shootout - Climb test of the best 2023 lightweight ebike (Part 1 of 2)

[@EMTBReview]

Buy through these links to help Emtb Review: Santa Cruz Heckler sl - alnk.to/7qjfK3S Trek Fuel EXe Direct - bit.ly/3VWF7rc Orbea Rise H30 for $3999 from Jenson - alnk.to/dAlM4CU Pivot Shuttle SL from Competitive - alnk.to/bEhrhGd Specialized Levo SL - click.linksynergy.com/link?id=vigtlsOioGE&offerid=1262556.491872065517930&bids=1262556.491872065517930&type=2&murl=https%3a%2f%2fwww.specialized.com%2fus%2fen%2fturbo-levo-sl-expert-carbon%2fp%2f216819%3fcolor%3d428355-216819%26searchText%3d96822-3001 Ebike options at JensonUSA - bit.ly/41qC1wE Chain and drivetrain parts - bit.ly/3prhCu8 Chain lube options - bit.ly/3BazADF Dropper posts - bit.ly/3MazOBc Rider protection - bit.ly/3NSgSsb

[@paulmerc3960]

Crap, I actually have to wait to see part 2 bc this video was only posted 18 hrs ago lol. No, but seriously, I haven't seen anyone do such in depth reviews of a group of bikes and I find this to be so awesome and helpful when trying to choose the right bike. I have been sold on the Orbea Rise ever since I got to demo one on my local trails. Only e bike I've ever ridden. The only thing I can't do it the non removable battery. Unfortunately, I need to remove the battery from time to time so it's not baking in my van all day. Would not end well for me. I Love what you are doing here, keep the reviews coming!😁

[@EMTBReview]

Thank you for your comment. Will get going on part two this weekend so be ready early next week. There Orbea rise is a pretty good bike. That’s not too aggressive or not very light, but it fits the bill for a lot of people.

[@slick-riq]

Wow, really appreciate the effort that went into this!

[@EMTBReview]

Glad you liked it!

[@bjornvesterdahl9238]

Would love to see a Scott Lumen 900 in this test as well. Good work! You are probably the only one that realised that same rider power needs to be in the mix for a comparison.

[@EMTBReview]

Thank you. Scott Lumen is mildly interesting but it is too XC and very expensive. Its climbing performance will mirror the Trek Fuel EXe since they share the same motor and battery. Motor is very quiet but its range is disappointing. Drag too when the motor is off or over the 20mph cut-off is quite noticeable.

[@WireWorldWide]

Thanks for the content. I like the test with power meter. Sadly a bike with a bosch sx motor is missing in the round.

[@EMTBReview]

Yes, we are eagerly awaiting that motor that may shake up this whole category.

[@msjj000]

@@EMTBReviewyes I’d like to see this too. I’m a 200lb rider when trim plus gear so around 220 with gear, water etc and I road 55% on eco and 45% on boost on a 45km ride, 1000 metres of climbing and 1800 descent and ended up with 52% left in the battery on the Bosch CX at around 72 avg cadence so was super impressed. On my local punchy trails when feeling a little tired so the whole ride on a decent boost I was left with 20% after 25km and 1000 metres of climbing - so my maths is this, take off 6kg and a heavier rider on a mid-power doesn’t make sense, add 1.5kg for a range extender and we are getting about even or pretty close to full power weights in some cases. I struggled with wanting an SL and last minute kinda had to stay full power and let’s face it, after you setup the sag you don’t play with the bike, never barely remove the battery and don’t really notice the weight on a well designed eMTB. I spend more time putting the bike in a bike bag then the time it takes to remove a few bolts. Thoughts?

[@jeffhuang5061]

orbea rise is the one that stood out for me. and if it's the aluminum version that you tested, it's a good 30-40% cheaper than the pivot, relay, and heckler. i currently have a full fat levo but if i'm to get a mid power bike, it would be the orbea. most supportive bike while just as efficient in terms of battery usage. and i'm guessing the carbon version probably drops the weight down another few pounds because of the smaller battery in the carbon version.

[@mikepalmer-q8y]

Thanks for your great reviews. I have just swapped a trek fuel exe for a similar spec pivot shuttle sl partly based on your findings. The pivot is much livelier so very pleased. I always thought the trek had a lot of "drag" in the motor. I've just compared the 2 bikes on a flat ride with the motor off. The pivot was around 5% faster. I thought this might be an interesting subject for a u tube clip testing different motors using your power meter pedals .

[@EMTBReview]

Very cool! Very very good share. Yes motor drag is a real thing and the pivot has the least of this group. The trek TQ motor definitely has a lot of drag, and it makes it very in unpleasant and impractical to pedal with the motor off.

[@thim8009]

Awesome job man! Nice line of bikes.

[@EMTBReview]

Glad you like them! We are so lucky to have access to this modern line of Bikes.

[@endymion8672]

Just past 5100 miles today on my Fuel EXe 9.7 and for me riding/pedaling/steering this bike beats any full-powered eMTB or even analog MTB. Up, down or flat, I can feel my leg power controlling the bike and dictating the tempo. The motor (in ECO mostly) is just that subdued amplifier I need for good sense of pace. Not sure if your Turbo mode testing is enough to fully judge the efficiency of an ebike's power system. I believe TQ achieves best power economy around 100W (ECO) and would be at par or better than others in that scope.

[@EMTBReview]

5100 miles on a Fuel Exe is a great data point. Thank you for that!! Yes, the EXe does a lot better with the battery at about 100-150 watt output. Problem though is all the other motors do so as well and their range stats at that output will be quite a bit higher as well.

[@MKBENTOT]

I just tried out the fuel exe and the rail. I found the rail is overkill for me and the exe was the sweet spot. Where I live the 9.7 is 1k more than the 9.5. Would you say in your option it’s worth it for someone like me who is just an average green/ blue trail rider? Thanks!

[@millerbill4]

Excellent review, Francis, thank you!

[@EMTBReview]

Glad you liked it!

[@sdtrailrider8070]

Hey Frances. One obvious contender is missing. The Giant Trance e-plus elite. Any reason you left it out of the mix? Otherwise, great reviews of the bikes I am considering!

[@EMTBReview]

I've made many, many attempts to get a test bike from Giant and they've strung me along and declined each time. Locals who have the bike say its quite a bit heavier than claims and range is somewhat disappointing. Now that I think of it, they're probably not excited about my power meter speed and range data since I can be brutally honest sometimes.

[@sdtrailrider8070]

@@EMTBReview That may be true! The motor may drain the battery faster when run on boost.

[@Jude0422]

Love the video... Keep it up bro🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@EMTBReview]

Appreciate it Keep on watchin!

[@MYMOUNTAIN_122]

To be fair with both the Heckler SL and trans, even though the motors are essentially the same the tuning via the app is different in out of the box configurations, I know for fact the Heckler by default is quite reserved as when compared to the trans fazua, the settings are quite turned up, I'd be keen to see if they adjusted the fazua app for both Trans and Heckler and see if there's a difference, as 3-4pounds isn't making that much of a difference in a climb. And yes I've had both and kept the Heckler due to its mullet design.

[@EMTBReview]

Thank you for your share, as it is very valuable with your experience. The fazua ride app was turned to max on both bikes and turbo mode. But I suspect the firmware on each motor is tune differently by the manufacturer

[@MYMOUNTAIN_122]

@@EMTBReview correct both would need to be on 009 firmware which makes a substantial difference.

[@mrtominboulder]

Nice work, great info, thanks.

[@EMTBReview]

Glad it was helpful! Even i learned something. :)

[@Jeroensurf]

Really nice vid. Can you give in your spreadsheet an comparison with the bosch motor as well as I believe that is one of the leading full power motors of the moment?

[@EMTBReview]

Yes I can. I will parse out that spreadsheet and post a public link moving forward.

[@coreygonzalez6890]

Love my Orbea Hydro. Great price👍

[@EMTBReview]

Mine too! Great solution for many

[@j.d.503]

Add a cascade link, 160mm fork and it is transformed...

[@billderas3420]

Nice job amigo!

[@EMTBReview]

Thank you, my good man

[@rjcamsr]

Very nice analysis. I really like how you were able to quantify the results. What difference do you think tire rolling resistance makes in the climbing test (aggressive vs fast rolling)?

[@EMTBReview]

For this test, because it's just a 1 mile fire road. It doesn't seem like there's any difference between common 900 gram Trail, All Mountain tires. Using a very light pure cross-country tire though can improve the time by about 20-25 seconds

[@rivers8517]

Excellent video! I'd love to see more about the Heckler SL. Will there be improvements to the throttle and display in the 2025 model?

[@EMTBReview]

I haven’t seen any improvements in the pipeline. I think they are wrestling with reliability issues and trying to really saw those. One of the most depressing things about this motor is the battery extender will not be released until 2025.

[@waynephilbert]

Great test and analysis Francis, well done! It matches my experience of the Fuel Ex-e compared to friends with other SL bikes. It's very quiet, rides amazingly well but it's not very efficient or as supportive.

[@EMTBReview]

I really appreciate you sharing your first-hand experience. Ride is amazing indeed but the package is not quite dialed.

[@waynephilbert]

@@EMTBReview I'm hoping that Trek / TQ decide on a firmware update to increase performance and efficiency. FAZUA, Bosch, Brose have all upped the game.

[@dtem938]

Frances, have you actually depleted one of those Fazua 60 bikes on a single ride? With what you extrapolated this means the Heckler SL can climb to top of Packer Saddle from Downieville on full power mode?

[@EMTBReview]

Yes. The Fazua Ride 60 motors are incredibly efficient with their 430wh battery. They are the most efficient of any motor I've tried. And it really encourages the rider to help out since there's no drag and there's good low-end torque. Yes, I and several friends have done 5500 feet of climbing. Working hard, mostly in Trail mode. For comparison, we mostly get 6000 feet of climbing in Trail mode using the Levo 700wh battery.

[@sheamus242able]

I am shocked that you got a faster time on the gen2 levo SL compared to the heckler SL, relay and fuel exe. I happen to own all of those bikes and the gen2 levo SL feels sooooo weak when climbing compared to the other 3. The relay and heckler SL feel the strongest to me for sure. I will say the gen2 levo SL really shines when going downhill but it kind of makes me sad how the motor feels nonexistent when I am climbing....it feels like a heavy amish bike.

[@sheamus242able]

I will also add that my fuel exe feels twice as strong as my gen2 levo SL which is crazy given the fact that both motors are 50nm of torque

[@EMTBReview]

Surprising but not so much. - the key with the Gen2 Levo SL is it has to be adjusted to 100/100 mode. It doesn't come shipped this way. - my course is just a fire road consistent climb. No accelerations or decelarations and this is where the Levo SL does well. - the trek is definitely not stronger or twice as strong. Trek TQ motor has good initial torque but really seems to die out when pushed. Are you crank lengths, tires all the similar?

[@mightywallaby]

Love the data. I own a Trek Rail and am a big fan of Specialised. If I buy the Fuel-exe or the Levo SL then I can’t go as far as the Fazua bikes and it takes me longer. Both brands have missed the mark with the motor/battery combinations. The new Bosch SL motor is likely to leave them further behind the pack.

[@EMTBReview]

Well said! The Fazua Ride 60 with 430nm is finally usable for most folks. Can even ride with full powered ebikers. If/when the extender battery finally comes out, it will be a big day.

[@skiMTB]

The Pivot SL appears to be the BEST ALL-AROUND (on numbers). Feel wise... is it better than the LEVO SL (mullet)?

[@EMTBReview]

Feel wise, no. The Shuttle SL is not as planted and is harder to get around switchbacks. That's where the Levo SL shines. Railing berms, tight stuff and jumps!

[@christiancasado6153]

What about this New brend called Superior ? They got a 16.5kg Light E. Bike with the Bosh SX motor. It looks great !

[@EMTBReview]

Never heard of that brand in the US unfortunately. It’s best to stick with bigger brands with a lot of local dealer support.

[@jimbo4203]

I've ridden ebikes for a while now and 50 nm is sweet spot for me and i just like the lighter bikes , but I would also take a full power one too 😅

[@EMTBReview]

Totally agree. For those that never use Boost or Turbo mode on their full power ebike, MID is a good option.

[@jimbo4203]

@@EMTBReview true and if you don't live in the mountains or a place with big hills

[@msjj000]

For the range estimates can you let us know the rider weight fully loaded and also run the tests with a 200lb rider plus extras like water tools etc. thanks.

[@EMTBReview]

I am 150 pounds, former razor. For a 200 pound rider the range goes down by about 20%. For someone who doesn’t pedal that hard, the range goes down another 10 to 20%.

[@msjj000]

@@EMTBReview thanks! Appreciated

[@lidarman2]

On your test process, do you always have the same rider (you?) do the run? And what power meter do you install? A pedal based one?

[@EMTBReview]

Yes, I'm the only rider on all tests. The power meter is a Garmin Rally pedals. Fine equipment but $1200 a pair.

[@ShowMeThePony]

Sad that Giant didn’t send you Trance X Adv E+. Also interested in why they didn’t? Are they afraid of a shootout or??

[@EMTBReview]

I can't tell what the issue was. There's very, very third-party info on the Giant bike. And in Northern CA, hot bed of ebikes, I have not seen this bike at all!

[@christiancasado6153]

I've been riding the carbon orbea rise for about 4monthes now. (i bought a second hand one from a Shop) I like it very much. I can have a 20 km ride with 300 hundred meter climb back home and my battery is still 80% left. I guess the extender is not for me.

[@EMTBReview]

Great share, thank you. Yes, you don’t need an extender for sure as that Orbea has incredible range. You should go on a lot bigger rides and really try to drain the battery.

[@tontonn9995]

Sorry were these test done in ECO, Trail or Turbo mode? Did I miss that part?

[@EMTBReview]

Turbo, cranked up all the way whenever possible. The reason is eco and trail modes are fairly random/arbitrary from one motor to another. Turbo reveals the full power of a motor system

[@SavvyBayAreaHomeOwner]

I got a Heckler and I'm thinking now I should have bought an SL. The Transition to be exact. I can have extra batteries. If the batteries are available.

[@EMTBReview]

Yes, that is not a bad idea. The 200watt Fazua extender battery will hopefully be released soon.

[@SavvyBayAreaHomeOwner]

@@EMTBReview the extender defeats the purpose. I like the idea of removal & have extra. The only thing is you have to loop back to the car. First world problems😬.

[@insidemattsmind5999]

I have an Orbea Rise Carbon that I usually ride in ECO mode. It would be an interesting test to compare the climbing range and speed of the Rise in each of its power modes. Matt

[@EMTBReview]

Unfortunately, the ECO and Trail modes of each motor system are fairly random/arbitrary. They just pick a point in the power spektrum and set it... and they assume the rider can change it with the app. So my results wouldn't be all that meaningful.

[@thetigers2803]

Why is there such a big difference between the Fazua bike times? The Pivot is much faster than the Heckler and Transition?

[@EMTBReview]

4 lbs lighter, Reynolds carbon wheels, Rotor cranks and newer Fazua firmware is my theory

[@thetigers2803]

@@EMTBReview Interesting - the firmware probably makes the most sense!👍👍👍 The rest aren't significant enough in terms of system weight.

[@EndoMTB]

It’s seems like the firmware has a lot to do with this which would also likely affect the range. I wish you could tune this to your liking. Also the Reynold wheels on the shuttle SL are really light ~1540 g. Loam Wolf did a shoot out mid weight e-bikes and they said this bike would get up to speed super quick.

[@04RedFairLadyZ]

The heckler SL would be so much better with a Bosh or brose motor.

[@pippinrush1520]

the 50 nm Brose?? i like the Fazua r 60

[@EMTBReview]

I think you mean the Heckler and I agree somewhat. For the Heckler SL, it has to be a lightweight motor with small, modular batteries and Bosch and Brose don't offer that yet.

[@pippinrush1520]

I’ve heard the new Santa Cruz Bullit will have the new Sram (Brose) motor

[@04RedFairLadyZ]

@@pippinrush1520 I hope so . I’m a big fan of the VPP suspension

[@mustclime5311]

sorry, mid power = low power.....whats the point?

[@EMTBReview]

Used to be low power, now they are really Mid. It's like a Levo on Trail mode. For those who NEVER use turbo mode, or for those that hate 55 lb bikes, midpower is a good option. And if one has a lot of ebikes... why not? :)

[@mustclime5311]

@@EMTBReview because low/mid power bikes have low/mid power battery's, as the big battery's age, you still have lots of power, small battery's just get weaker. THEY WILL NOT AGE WELL

[@lesterma1608]

This is why the emtb industry is in the d😅umps buy a low powered one that almost cost as much as a full power one all with a smaller battery and lower price groupo. You’ll love it or not!

[@EMTBReview]

The pricing is an issue for sure. Selling 13-$15k ebikes does not seem sustainable.

[@Stockfish1511]

Just get Gen 4 Trek Rail and shred

[@EMTBReview]

I gotta try that. The old Rails were unimpressive. Bot Bosch has leapfrogged everyone. Just gotta see if the Rail chassis has been revamped enough to keep up.

[@marklouieadame]

Why XC EMTB is so slow? Its an XC bike it should climb real fast ok its an analog. If we have 40lbs with a motor of 80nm and 630kwh Enduro EMTB

[@EMTBReview]

It's like the Joker card in there to mix it up. :)

[@testing3166]

Eventually mid power bikes will be full power.

[@EMTBReview]

I doubt that very much. I think this category will experience traumatic improvement. The key will be in the batteries and in in the modularity of add-on batteries. That way Juan can have lightweight and great ran to the same time.

[@testing3166]

@@EMTBReview yah. What I mean is I think eventually full power bikes will be 40lbs as battery advances eventually happen

[@richardpeery-bruce3586]

Sorry but this e bike look Dumb. And exhausting.