Life at Commodore (Act II) - Bil Herd

[@Waccoon]

No matter how many times I hear the stories, I never get tired of listening to Bil. 8)

[@tekvax01]

hear hear!

[@vcfederation]

This is why we at VCF East keep inviting him to our show every year. Everyone loves to hear from him, no matter what he is talking about!

[@ugencz8364]

@@vcfederation He's great, would love to see his presentation irl one day

[@baardbi]

I watch his stream every friday on KZbin, and I love every minute of it.

[@laurencevanhelsuwe3052]

I worked a year as a software engineer for Commodore.. in Hull (UK), the R&D HQ in England. We were a glorious team of three (3) engineers working on a clean room implementation of Postscript for the Amiga. Probably close to zero US R&D have ever heard of that team. The way if was run and funded already hinted strongly at what was to come soon after: Commodore going bust. Our Postscript was of really high quality, but it never saw the light of day as an Amiga library, device driver, or any other shape or form. Working for Commodore was not cool.. right after reaching our first major milestone (Level 1 implementation stable) ahead of schedule, they fired us like we were secondhand furniture. They fired us because US marketing did a 180 on the perceived need for a clean room Postscript for the Amiga. Marketing people can be such a bunch of *holes.

[@vcfederation]

Wow! Very cool! I would love to hear your story some time!

[@KarlHamilton]

Do tell more!

[@tomahzo]

I've only read about it but it sounds like the mismanagement of that company was pretty legendary. You can learn a lot about the technical innovations to come out of the company (and the companies that they acquired, like MOS and Amiga Technology) and likewise you can learn a lot about how NOT to run a company.

[@DS-pk4eh]

Well, late Commodore was known for worst management in the industry. Many great projects (just like yours) were killed by the short sided managers.

[@pritambissonauth2181]

Marketing people ruining everything again, I can see where I work, but can't do anything . . .

[@toddkuykendall6030]

As I recall, I bought my very first computer, a C64, along with the Commodore dot matrix printer & floppy disk drive + a 13" color TV to use as a monitor. I took out a $2000 ($6500 in 2021 dollars) loan to accomplish this. I got it home, the local computer shop where I bought it had no software available and none would be available in the near future. My remedy turned out being a subscription to the C64 magazine, which had several pages of basic code to produce your own software programs.

[@vcfederation]

Yeah. It was an interesting experience to type in programs from mazagines.

[@little_fluffy_clouds]

I grew up in Turkey, and back in the early 1980s, Commodore was huge there, whereas Apple was unknown. All the kids had either a Commodore 64 or a ZX Spectrum, nobody I knew had an Apple computer of any flavour. In the late 1980s, I moved to the UK as a teenager, and again, all the kids had Amigas, Atari STs, ZX Spectrums or BBC Micros. I didn't see an Apple computer until I started university. Interesting how different brands gain popularity in different regions.

[@NuntiusLegis]

I think in all regions only people having way too much money bought Apple computers.

[@vcfederation]

The Commodore 64 was my first computer because I simply couldn't afford an Apple //e. I had seen the Apple //e in school and wanted one. My brother's friend was selling a used C64 with all the peripherals and disks. A bargain. I never would have had a home computer had the C64 not be so inexpensive.

[@vcfederation]

They have always been too expensive and still are!

[@gromett]

My first computer was a VIC20. I loved that thing. Went through the commodores as money allowed. C64, Amiga 512, Amiga 1500 etc. Had a spectrum somewhere in there but I hated the keyboard and it got frisbied out the window literally in frustration. I was so sad when Commodore died, it was the company who set me on course to where I am today. Aged 50 I still have such a soft spot for everything Commodore. Loved the stories from Bil Herd. Thank you for sharing.

[@pritambissonauth2181]

I am aged 48, I wanted a C64 for one Christmas in the eighties, but it was all sold out in Mauritius at that time, then my dad found a ZX Spectrum + for myself & my brother. Never owned a Commodore. Wished this company never died . . .

[@andrewjames8980]

I was born in '85, didn't have a PC until I was 14, have no technical literacy with hardware or software, but I am in awe of these pioneers. To say we have a debt is not enough. They gave life to our computing world.

[@vcfederation]

It was truly an impressive story!

[@thunderboydavid]

i have the Commodore 64 Logo tattooed on my left arm. i got my 1st Commodore 64 in 1983. i was in the 11th grade at the time. That computer changed my whole life!!!

[@vcfederation]

Yes. The Commodore 64 was my first home computer! :)

[@enilenis]

Never had a Commodore, never seen a Commodore, and yet I'm loving every second of this lecture.

[@vcfederation]

Yes. Bil is a great speaker. He is always entertaining to hear his stories and what he has to say!

[@rinner2801]

I learned to speak to my C64 before I learned to speak effectively to other people. 6510 made so much sense to me, it helped the world make sense.

[@VolJoe]

I really hope Bil does an audio version of his book. Half the entertainment is his delivery

[@vcfederation]

That's a good idea! I will suggest that to him!

[@00Skyfox]

I'm very happily working on a C64 board repair as I listen to this talk. Yay for Commodore!

[@undergroundbass946fm]

Best ̶T̶e̶d̶ ̶T̶a̶l̶k̶ Herd Talk ever. Thanks to the facilitators for this. This was my ultimate Christmas TV. Loved every minute!

[@vcfederation]

Our pleasure! We love to have Bil there every year. He will be coming back again April 22 & 23 for VCF East 2022!

[@glinch57]

I also worked at MOS. I was a business systems programmer on the Data General and then on the VAX. I started just after you guys moved to West Chester. Wild times.

[@achimboers]

Still my favorite computer I had as a teenager. I hope one day I actually get a cp/m program running on it.

[@vcfederation]

Very nice!

[@Nachtschicht1]

This calls up memories... my first computer was a C64 and I still remember how long it took me to persuade my parents to buy me one, since the didn't understand what that should be good for. I started to learn programming on it and later I got an Amiga 1000, which was sort of the pinnacle of home computers back then. This machines strongly influenced my decision to study computer engineering.

[@d-h4ck401]

Same story here. Also studied computer engineering with the same reason and source of influence..

[@vcfederation]

Yes. The C64 was the first computer for so many. It really deserves a place in history.

[@vcfederation]

It was a great introductory computer that helped many to start the learning process of software development.

[@andrew-dunai]

Bill is such a talent. I can't get enough of his stories. And his presentation manners and jokes are so perfectly timed & executed that it's a pure joy to watch & listen! But yeah, the way he's treating those unique items really grinds my gears! :D

[@vcfederation]

LOL! To him they are just props, but to collectors they are valuable. He is a great speaker and will be back in 2025 for the 40th anniversary of the C128.

[@AnalogX64]

We need a 12 hour Bill Herd video :) I think he was just getting warmed up :)

[@vcfederation]

Yeah! He could certainly talk for that amount of time!

[@s3vR3x]

So cool!!!! Every time Bil has one of these talks, he adds a couple more stories

[@raven4k998]

shame commodore went to hell like it did cause can you imagine if they were still making computers today they would have prevented the raspberry pi from coming to market cause they would be making computers that filled that market better then the raspberry pi

[@vcfederation]

I never get tired of listening to his stories.

[@bobfromsoireegames4309]

Not only do I remember Commodore, I still cherish my fully operational C64 with tape drive

[@vcfederation]

There are lot of people who cherish the C64!

[@mikepalmer1971]

I had a Commodore 64 and an amiga. I loved those things.

[@janbeck8269]

Thanks for sharing. I grew up with commodore computers and these stories give a lot of color to already great memories....

[@vcfederation]

We are glad that you enjoyed it!

[@leeselectronicwidgets]

Bil is so brilliant to listen to, and brilliant at engineering too

[@vcfederation]

I agree!

[@KarlHamilton]

Could listen fo Bil talk all day.

[@vcfederation]

Me too!

[@BaronVonHobgoblin]

It would be nice if Bil could do a presentation on the particulars his "education". What prepared him so spectacularly for his breakthrough and rise at MOS? His story at MOS is the tale of Intern to Manager Overnight. How much was genuine luck as he claims and how much was genuine skill as he downplays?

[@vcfederation]

A lot of that is in his book.

[@alienrenders]

The missing reset button on the C64 is really weird. Everyone I knew that had a C64 had one. Either on a fast load cartridge or a custom built switch on the user port. It was a super simple circuit. The fact that everyone I knew had one shows how much it was needed. Loved programming on the C64. It was so much fun figuring out all the tricks you could do like extend sprites vertically as much as you wanted or reuse them (Commando used this technique), change the character bank mid screen to create a character editor, change the background colour on a particular scanline to get more colours (and on anything else that could change colours), etc. 6502 assembly was my second language after C64 Basic. I still remember saying "This is so much easier and faster than Basic. Why would anyone not use assembly for everything!" I still stand by that statement. :)

[@espressomatic]

Reset switch was super handy for programming and debugging. But for every one person doing that kind of thing there were 10000 or more that had no use for a reset switch. Even at an extra $1-2 per machine in parts and assembly, that would have cost commodore millions and it wouldn't have converted any additional sales. Decisions like this also helped keep Radio Shack in business - where would they have been without sales of wire and buttons?

[@NuntiusLegis]

@@espressomatic If you need to survive in the jungle without wire and a button for a reset switch, use: STOP, STOP + RESTORE, SYS 64738, On/Off-switch, LOAD. ;-)

[@vcfederation]

I agree that it needed a reset button. Computers of that era needed them. Thank you for sharing your story!

[@vcfederation]

Yeah. It was definitely a business decision to keep the cost down. That's why cartridges had their niche in selling them with a lot of other functionality.

[@vcfederation]

Yes. That is definitely an option that works some of the time.

[@marciomaiajr]

Bill Herd is looking pretty good in this talk. He looks like 10 years younger than he did in some of his other talks.

[@vcfederation]

That's because he didn't have to travel far so there isn't any travel fatigue. Also his enthusiasm is up after writing his new book. Which I recommend everyone read on Amazon.

[@erikmolnar6585]

My favorite Commodore presentations are done by Bil Herd. I had a C64 in 1985 but I know very little about programming and what was inside the breadbox. This is fascinating as is all Bil's other presentations that have been uploaded onto KZbin.

[@vcfederation]

Any of Bil's talks are entertaining. Much better to see him in person though!

[@TnsToad]

one of the sadest days of my life was when my vic20 was destroyed in a fire. But then a year later I was rewarded with a used C64 with a disk drive.. no more tapes!!! now I could create save and load quicker!... lol also the c64 was the first time I ever went to a bbs. With my great 2400bps modem that I ordered from Computer Shopper!! yep those were the days.

[@speedbird737]

Save load quicker? Not much quicker lol

[@TnsToad]

@@speedbird737 All I remember was pushing play and waiting like a minute for the load to finish. then pushing stop. maybe the manual labor made it seem quicker! the cartridges were the best option for games though.

[@vcfederation]

I don't know how people could have the patience to run tape drives! I started with a disk drive. Couldn't think of my C64 without one!

[@NuntiusLegis]

@@vcfederation I was traumatized for a long time by not having a tape drive, because silly me thought I wouldn't need one since I could afford a disk drive. A few years ago I found a Datassette in the woods, and now my life is complete. Fast enough for little things, and a secure backup solution for a day's work on the C64.

[@AndrewAHayes]

I have just completed the re capping and restoration of my Vic20 and all the online searches that were Vic releated must have fired up the algorithm to recommend this video and Im so glad it did as this was extremly entertaining, thanks for posting!

[@bitset3741]

Awesome man, good job! I only ever threw out a couple of broken machines when I was younger but it is my penance to repair as many old machines as is physically possible.

[@vcfederation]

You are very welcome! It's nice to have him give a talk again, not only to give everyone another chance to see him in person, but also to update the video quality. Plus, he keeps remembering new stories! ;)

[@danthompsett2894]

so cool, i had a commodore 16 plus 4 briefly, i remember it fondly, tape drive crunching squeaking noises as it loaded, flashing coloured lines as it loaded games from tape, the chunky joysticks, picking out games on tape from a local software gaming store.

[@vcfederation]

Thanks for sharing!

[@makers_lab]

Sharing the bus between cpu and display controller worked really well with the 6502. The BBC micro also used the same technique.

[@vcfederation]

Yes. It seems to work much better to have an intelligent CPU controlled drive.

[@andrewdupuis1151]

I started with vic20 and it was my first computer I ever own. C64 is my fav

[@vcfederation]

The C64 is a favorite of many people!

[@corty1980]

Bill Herd, Dave Haynie and all the Commodore engineers are great to listen to as 30+ years latter they still convey the passion they had for Commodore and the wonderful machines that they produced, pity the management wasn't the same.

[@vcfederation]

Yes. Poor management was the main cause of Commodore failiing.

[@GeorgesChannel]

I am one of the European guys who learned programming on a commodore Plus/4! My first Computer! Great video and great talk!

[@vcfederation]

Very interesting. Thank you for sharing!

[@przemekkobel4874]

Despite being raised on different machines, and in completely different world behind the Iron Curtain, these stories about 6502/Z80/tinkering with computer electronics made me feel like I'm at home. (Maybe because as I kid I did lots of 6502 assemlby at home, and 8080/electronics at school). Really cool video, also because of interesting hints about Tramiel.

[@vcfederation]

I love hearing stories about what happened "back in the day". I'm glad that we are documenting them as much as possible before these pioneers pass away and with them the knowledge computer history.

[@przemekkobel4874]

@@vcfederation Yes, the sad part is that most people mentioned here passed away. I'm glad that people on YT make it possible to hear things like how Amiga's HAM mode came to be in Miner's own words...

[@doug8171]

This guy is a gem of an engineer! Awesome teamwork and leadership!

[@vcfederation]

Yes. I love his stories of how he succeeded despite all sorts of obstacles, both engineering and human.

[@mikekopack6441]

Really wanted to make it to the lecture this year and bring my C-128D for him to sign (even if it's the metal version he didn't have anything to do with, it wouldn't have existed without him regardless!) That machine is my pride and joy and sits next to my A500 and A2000.

[@vcfederation]

He's coming to VCF East 2022 on April 22 & 23!

[@cwmoser]

I don't recall the TED version of Commodore computers, but I was quite involved in writing programs in 6502 assembly for the Pet 2001, 4032, 8032, VIC and C64. Back then I could recall all the opcodes and timing cycles for the 6502 ... still can for quite a few, its burned in my memory :-)

[@vcfederation]

We never forget our first home computers!

[@randysmith7094]

My first computer was a Vic 20, nearly every kid I knew ended up getting one. I'm sure the Vic 20 is single handedly responsible for causing the "video game" crash of 83. It was really just the Atari crash. I wanted a C64 so bad for years. Then one day my mom told me she ordered a 'Plus 4'. "It's like a C64 only better", she said. Ugghhhh my dead soul.... My soul died that day!!

[@vcfederation]

Glad to hear that you go the Vic-20 and sad that you got a Plus 4! I hope that someday you were able to buy your C64 and get back what you lost so many years ago!

[@doctorsocrates4413]

I have 4 amiga500s and 3 c64c commodores....love my retro commodore computers.x

[@vcfederation]

@doctorsocrates4413: So glad that you liked the video!

[@bitset3741]

My silver label C64 sparkles! Super cool to hear about that from Bil.

[@vcfederation]

Wow! It's so interesting to find out about these type of hardware bugs!

[@kevinison3740]

Excellent video! Brings back memories to be sure!!

[@vcfederation]

Yes. It was a great and fun talk!

[@jamesharrison7350]

Tremendous!!! Shame the organisers made you cut it the presentation short. I worked for CBM from 90-93 in the UK tech support. I got the job at the interview. Still the proudest moment of my life. Nothing will top the feeling I had when I got it. The 6510 and c64 made me. Annoyed how CBM ended. Apple and Atari won. Pisses me off. Wished I'd told CBM management the "C65" would be a good computer to sell.

[@vcfederation]

Thank you for sharing! Bil actually stopped his talk because he didn't want to take time from the next talk: Bill Mensch. Bil started late because he was delayed by the previous speaker: Michal Tomczyk. We will give Bill plenty of time to talk in 2025 when we celebrate the 40th anniversary of the C128!

[@JustWasted3HoursHere]

I cut my programming teeth on the Commodore Vic-20 and then later the C64 and am now the lead AI programmer for Tesla Autopilot. [Just kidding, but I had you going there for a minute, didn't I?] Anyways, great memories of playing games with my brother and friends and waiting for over an hour for a TINY program to download from the local BBS at the amazing speed of 300baud, only to discover that the file was corrupted. Ah, good times. The SID still sounds amazing to this day and I always wonder why it was never improved with other iterations of the C64 or with the C128. Even the Amiga's sound chip, Paula, was never updated as far as I know with more voices, higher resolution (12 or 16 bit). So many good times, but also lots of missed opportunities too.

[@smeggerknee2448]

One of my favourite challenges was to write*a pacman style game on a vic20 faster than the guy in the shop could load the commercial one from a tape deck. (*write ....meaning compose from nothing,NOT "type in a listed program") I sold most of their computers for them by doing this for an audience of ....moms and dads.

[@JustWasted3HoursHere]

@@smeggerknee2448 That would indeed be impressive to see. I've seen coders at demo scene competitions write demos live in 15 minutes or so.

[@vcfederation]

Commodore had some amazing hardware that was ahead of it's time in a lot of ways. Just wish that they knew how to market it properly!

[@JustWasted3HoursHere]

@@vcfederation That, my friend, pretty much sums up why Commodore is not here anymore (not in any useful way anyway). The people at the top - except when Jack was in charge - just didn't understand or appreciate what they had.

[@NuntiusLegis]

The inventor of the SID, as other engineers, wasn't treated well by the Commodore management, so he (and others) left. There seems to have been too much brain drain to keep important development going. The Amiga had to be bought from outside and thus was completely incompatible.

[@hallkbrdz]

Great presentation, interesting to this old computer nerd. Although my only interaction with C16/64/128 machines was with a local computer store, I was always intrigued that the floppy drive had about as much computing power as the computer itself (unlike with my TI-99/4a setup). And... I spent many hours on one playing MULE. I was always amused by all the PEEK and POKE commands to do certain things, and at the time - having to care about these hardware register things (instead of floating registers in the TMS9900). Good times...

[@demonspoo]

My favorite computer ever when I 1st seen it at school and got to use was amazing Jr high 7th grade mid 80s great times

[@demonspoo]

The c128 I mean lol

[@vcfederation]

Yes. My first home computer was the Commodore 64.

[@vcfederation]

The C128 had a great keyboard, but I mostly used it in C64 mode.

[@tonyd506]

I took a picture with him when he came to Toronto for the Commodore show a few years back. I was literally nervous like I just met a famous movie star. Great guy and definetly a star!

[@vcfederation]

He really is a great guy. Down to earth. I was starstruck when I first met him years ago too!

[@micheleporcu2287]

So good to attend to your speeches Bil, inspiring and interesting. Thanks for sharing.

[@vcfederation]

We are always grateful that he can come to VCF East every year.

[@micheleporcu2287]

@@vcfederation yah Bil is a plus, his history as a tech guy, the anecdotes and his way to recall stories is fantastic. Thank you for sharing the video !

[@spitfeueranna]

I would never say this to a veteran, but I would say this as an 8 bit C-64 kid hacker from the 80's that lived and breathed these machines... Thank yo for your Service. I never hacked on Herd's machines, but I've got a few 128's and a SuperPet now moldering away. For me it was Vic-20 bought with my own money to C-64 gifted out of the blue by my grandparents Nirvana land. Having I didn't buy software, I wrote it. That blinking cursor on a command line with Bill Gates full screen editor... was power and too tantalizing to leave still. Somewhere is my Programmers Reference Guide and red Machine language programming book. which were like the Old and New Testament lol.

[@vcfederation]

Good times growing up with these machines!

[@RandomBitzzz]

This is pure gold

[@vcfederation]

More like platinum!

[@cryptocsguy9282]

1:00 He's right lol 😆 I've seen loads of shows that talk about tech from the 80s & show apple II or the original Mac but no commodore 64 🥴

[@tomahzo]

Yeah, there's some proper history revisionism going on unfortunately. Go to the computer history museum in Mountain View, Silicon Valley and notice how much space Apple gets and then notice that the C64 technically _is there_ but it's hardly noticeable. The museum exhibit at least does acknowledge that it is the best selling home computer in human history. Of course, the corporations that still exist have an interest in perpetuating their own myths and legends and they are pretty big donors so the result is a skewed historical focus on these other companies. Sad, really.

[@NuntiusLegis]

@@tomahzo Some big brand like Microsoft should buy the Commodore name and put things straight. The BASIC in the ROM of the C64 probably is the most popular version of Microsoft BASIC. Windows 12 could have a C64 emulator built in, etc.

[@vcfederation]

Yes. Apple has created a myth through clever marketing. The Commodore 64 sold 17 million at least and was made until Commodore went out of business. It was a great machine with lots of power for it's time. It was affordable. But Commodore isn't around anymore. So the victors write the history books as they please, even if it isn't accurate.

[@vcfederation]

Yes. Apple has created a cult of followers. Apple is still around and has always had the marketing buzz. Unfortunately the C64 didn't have the marketing power. It was technically superior as well as selling more.

[@vcfederation]

Yeah. It couldn't hurt for them to buy the rights and sell some retro system or games and even put them on the Xbox. Much like Nintendo use to put out the older games on DVD for PlayStation, etc.

[@noelsaw]

Very cool! This video also has the “proto” history of the Atari ST as Shiviji and Velinsky lead the design of ST and some of the subsequent models.

[@vcfederation]

Yes. There were definitely employees that worked at both Commodore and Atari. Very interrelated back then.

[@Rasle500]

I got a 128D Herd version in my living room.

[@vcfederation]

I love that version!

[@PatriksTechLightning]

The C64 legacy of having to tune your tape device to avoid seeing the dreaded "Loading Error". Getting a disk drive 1541-II was heaven.

[@fredaminge]

I was a speccy 48k owner back in the day & know just what you're talking about, we had exactly the same tape tuning issue's back then so i always had one of those small electrical/watchmaker type screwdriver's sat next to my tape player in case it was needed. Have to say it wasn't needed so much if at all later in the 80's once i came into posession of one of those cabinet based stacking home HIFI system's with twin tape decks 5 band graphic eq, record deck etc. Now being able to copy games tape to tape on the same machine & also in better quality & in stereo mean't the days of dodgy copy's & the small dedicated mono cassette players for loading games were pretty much done. And for loading up game's the 5 band EQ replaced the small tuning screwdriver.

[@PatriksTechLightning]

Awesome anecdote 😀 My 6 year old self at that time had to rely solely on the manual screwdriver.

[@NuntiusLegis]

I think most LOAD ERRORs derive from people not leaving that tempting hole in the Datassette for turning the tuning screw alone. ;-)

[@ssdravidian]

...hmmmppphhhh.....what could have been !!!!! Never get tired of ol' Bil.....

[@vcfederation]

He's coming back on April 22 & 23. And he's bringing Dave Haynie and Andie Finkel. He's trying to get more Commodore engineers to join him :)

[@petteriheino9856]

I am even more happier that C128 was my first computer. Thank you!

[@vcfederation]

I love the keyboard on the C128. I'm so glad also that there are hobbyists making new games for this machine. There was not enough software back in the day to fully utilize all the capabilities of this fantastic machine. In the VCF museum we have GEO 128 running which is such a fantastic piece of software.

[@petteriheino9856]

@@vcfederation Yea, that keyboard pretty much defines what I look for from a keyboard. I let go of my last C128 earlier this year and am currently only running Vice and am struggling to get the same experience. Obviously...

[@patsk8872]

Atari guy here. Always loved the Commodore line but man, what a bunch of knuckleheads in charge. Why were the designers never given enough time to do things properly.

[@vcfederation]

I agree. If given proper time, these machines could have been even better. I'm amazed at how fast they were able to create these machines and that they were as good as they were. It's all about competition, selling and the constant pass of newer technology.

[@DonnyHooterHoot]

I worked at a Commodore dealer when the C64 first came out. It was hell with customers streaming back in with dead ones! We would get a shipment of units in and have to run them all and send failers back! Fun times.

[@vcfederation]

Wow! That's a crazy story!

[@customsongmaker]

They must have poked the wrong address

[@DonnyHooterHoot]

@@customsongmaker Only where we Peek'ed.

[@NuntiusLegis]

While the first ones were fragile, the later ones were like tanks. There is a video on KZbin of a C64 C that was outside for years, ending up as the home of an ant colony; a little scrubbing on the contacts, and it worked as good as new.

[@DonnyHooterHoot]

@@NuntiusLegis I saw that video, that's one in a million. They were crappy until the Amiga came out! I WAS THERE!

[@serifini2469]

I remember Commodore from CBM (Commodore Business Machines) from their calculators. I think I still have a PR100 programmable and an M55 somewhere. If I remember rightly that one had things like Bessel functions built in as standard. I saw the Commodore PET at various shows but by that time I had access to mainframes so was a bit spoiled in terms of what I expected from a computer in terms of CPU, memory and storage.

[@NuntiusLegis]

Not too plausible: James T. Kirk is spoiled by the bridge computer of the Enterprise, and still has a Commodore PET in his apartment.

[@vcfederation]

Many people didn't realize that Commodore was making calculators before they make computers. I always explain that to visitors in our museum.

[@vcfederation]

But, hey, it's still cool to see an antique computer in his apartment!

[@roystout9751]

The C128D was, is, and will always be my favorite computer of all time. Bought the C64 in July 1983 when TI and Commodore were going toe-to-toe. Got it at Target for $199. Still have it, still have the receipt. But I really cut my teeth on the C128D Basic 7, assembly language via the Monitor, CP/M mode, and forcing myself to understand all of the pieces that went into the 128 (2 CPUs, 80 col RAM, VIC II chip, MMU, and so on). Modern computers are far more capable, but they are just tools... The 128 was/is.... FUN.

[@Wok_Agenda]

Commodore building should have been made a tech museum. So sad

[@DavePoo2]

West Chester is now QVC global headquarters

[@vcfederation]

I just wish that someone had recovered all the artifacts left there when they abandoned the place!

[@DavePoo2]

@@vcfederation [holds out a pocket watch] "It's worthless. Ten dollars from a vendor in the street. But I take it, I bury it in the sand for a thousand years, it becomes priceless... like the Ark. Men will kill for it. Men like you and me. " - Belloq

[@massihkheiry7411]

C128 with 3 CPUs in 3 modes. The c128 basic was slower than c64. But I liked that basic. It was better than GWbasic. Assembly was also great! But 64k addressing was outdated!

[@vcfederation]

When you look at the demos done on C64 these days, I can only imagine what you could do on a C128 when pushed to the limit!

[@NuntiusLegis]

I am glad they put a sleek and fast BASIC in the C64.

[@tomahzo]

There's plenty of Bil Herd stories in Brian Bagnall's book trilogy on Commodore's rise and fall. Specifically in the "Amiga Years" book. Crazy wild times. I'm glad to see Bil in such seemingly good shape. Apparently there was a lot of drinking and hard living during those years so that could get the best of any person. I didn't know that Bil had published a book - definitely gonna binge it as soon as I can :).

[@vcfederation]

Yes. I have read his book and it is great!

[@geoffreyoltmans4356]

Given that the CP/M cartridge didn't really work all that great or was all that useful, I'm surprised that a Z80 was included at all on the C-128.

[@KarlHamilton]

The built the best 8 bit computer they could as a farewell to that generation. I'd love one.

[@vcfederation]

Bil explains that it was needed to control the computer on startup to switch between C64 or C128 mode properly due to a hardware glitch.

[@marsandbars]

What a great TED talk...

[@vcfederation]

LOL! I see where you are going with that ;)

[@robskibulletmovement8998]

My Mom brought me and my brother a commodore vic 20 my 1st computer 1989

[@robskibulletmovement8998]

Then my cousin's got a commodore 16+

[@vcfederation]

Very cool!

[@Screamingtut]

Did you know they used the C64 in all of the John Wick movies as their computers?

[@vcfederation]

I had no idea!

[@Screamingtut]

@@vcfederation look at the newest previews for John Wick 4 where they type in the date!

[@smeggerknee2448]

Thankyou Bill. I still regularly use mine. No chance of a deliberate device destruction by Bill Gates,unlike EVERY device running on the later operator systems. The fact that one of you engineers hid the secret message to Bill in EVERY C64 always tickles me😺👈

[@vcfederation]

Bil Herd is a great guy who made a great computer!

[@vcfederation]

Maybe he means that there is a constant need to upgrade hardware each time the OS is update?

[@mark12358]

How a great and ingenious man is Bill Herd!

[@vcfederation]

I agree 100%!

[@typxxilps]

Where are those videos of act i and act iii or did I miss a thing ?

[@vcfederation]

History of Commodore Act I (kzbin.info/www/bejne/kKK1i6KYgZ51nqc), History of Commodore Act III (kzbin.info/www/bejne/mYa7n61uqqpnaM0)

[@LJR_LIMITED]

I'm trying to remember where I know Bil Herd from.. Did he run a BBS back in the day? I want to say I used to download games for my C64 off his BBS with a 300 baud modem. In New Jersey. Incubus BBS?

[@vcfederation]

Bil Herd helped to create the Commodore 128. I don't think he ever ran a BBS.

[@LJR_LIMITED]

@@vcfederation yes I'm pretty sure he did, I just can't remember the name of it. I also ran a bbs at the same time. I'm also pretty sure he lived close to me in nj.

[@BilHerd]

@@LJR_LIMITED I owned an ISP, JerseyNet. Your from Blackwood I am betting. :)

[@drkamilz]

I hate it when I heard that "I don't have time...". Give these talks unlimited time, come on.

[@patsk8872]

Makes sense for youtube, but there I'm sure they have a schedule. Other people waiting to speak etc.

[@vcfederation]

Unfortunately we had a very tight schedule. Michael Tomczyk ran late and Bil didn't want to delay Bill Mensch's talk which was after his. We had a last minute addition of David Ahl, so all the talks had a tighter than originally designed schedule.

[@eastkingstonnh]

Thank you for documenting this.

[@vcfederation]

You are very welcome! We aim to not only entertain, but to preserve computer history.

[@eastkingstonnh]

@@vcfederation The impact of the Amiga on video production is still evident today. Just an amazing time for personal computing. Tim Jenison would be a great addition to your chronicles .

[@caeserromero3013]

1:10:31 No Coors East of the Sippi?? You boys need to talk to Bo Darville, he's East bound and down. If they're thirsty in Atlanta, there's beer in Texarkana, he'll bring it back no matter what it takes :)

[@BrooklynWalker]

LOL. “I’m gonna go quick here today.”

[@vcfederation]

Bill is definitely a talker!

[@declanmcardle]

Hmm, JSR $FFD2, doesn't that mean print?

[@vcfederation]

You are correct!

[@maddogmcrae]

Lots of smart people worked at Commodore.

[@vcfederation]

Yes. It's amazing how much talent was there.

[@wimwiddershins]

Gold! Thanks Bil.

[@vcfederation]

Bil says "You're welcome!"

[@imranchaudhry4321]

I wonder if Commodore would be were Apple is today if things were different !

[@vcfederation]

I think that if Commodore did it right, they would have surpassed Apple and would be using Commodore smart phones now ;)

[@NuntiusLegis]

@@vcfederation I don't care much about smartphones, but I would like to have a 64-bit PC with PETSCII being on the keyboard and part of Unicode, and a powerful, modern BASIC with direct mode = Comand SCREEN Interface instead of a mere CLI. In the 80s, of course Commodore did surpass Apple - Jack Tramiel wanted the C64 to become an Apple (II) killer, and that mission was accomplished, it outsold the Apple II by far. With the C64, Commodore had become the world market leader for micro/home/personal computers. The next logical step would have been a 16-bit computer compatible with the C64, then a 32-bit computer, then a 64-bit, for a chance to go on ruling the world. What the IBM-clones did, including - what Commodore was always good at - delivering more value for money than anybody else.

[@allanm6246]

Commodore completely misjudged what the Sinclair Spectrum was all about and didn't stand a chance of killing it. It was the best selling computer in the UK with games being released for it every week by the shed load. Unless it was the ZX81 they were trying to kill but that was already an old machine by then. But i did like my C16 and Plus/4 and wish i had kept them!

[@Lion_McLionhead]

Finally noticed he has only 9 fingers.

[@vcfederation]

I keep forgetting that he lost one myself and I saw him in person and up close at the show.

[@CommodoreAmiga]

I love Commodore and you can tell why :) I still have my A4000, A500, A600 and 1200 !

[@vcfederation]

What's so awesome! Commodore 4ever!

[@tonysofla]

Commodore wasted too much money by going in weird directions. Once C64 was a huge sucess, it should just double everything inside it and ONLY using same intellectual properties it already had. Trying to create cost savings products like C16 or plus4 etc that would never recoup the R&D cost. The C128 should just have been two C64 : 128K, 2MHz 6510, 6 channel sid, VicIII should been 16 sprites, 80 column and 256 colors.

[@vcfederation]

It was a hard thing to try to build on the C64's success to create something with "more stuff". Apple had the same problem with the Apple 2 line. They tried to continue with the Apple 3, but no one was interested.

[@NuntiusLegis]

@@vcfederation Apple succeeded in making a 16-bit computer compatible with the II, the IIGS - that's like Commodore coming up with the C65 - something like the Amiga, but compatible with the C64! Apple slowed it down because they thought it would otherwise kill the Macs. The C65 hitting the market early enough could have killed the Macs, the IBM PCs, and everything else.

[@JustWasted3HoursHere]

It's weird that the "business" computer was going to be the low cost computer going against the Spectrum - a game machine. I wonder what they were thinking?

[@DavePoo2]

I think at the time, Clive designed the Spectrum to be a business machine, I think he actually didn't like games at all and was not that impressed that the Spectrum eventually became just a games machine.

[@JustWasted3HoursHere]

@@DavePoo2 And according to "Micro Men" (an excellent docu-drama series on the Sinclair computers)* he wasn't really convinced of the usefulness of computers at all at first. * Worth watching if you're interested in the behind the scenes of how the ZX80/81 and Spectrum came about (and Clive's battle with Acorn): kzbin.info/www/bejne/jomlqYlsYt-Uo68

[@vcfederation]

The middle managers were clueless.

[@vcfederation]

Well game machines sold much better than business machines in my opinion.

[@rwdplz1]

The obvious mistake was assuming a security guard can read.

[@vcfederation]

LOL!

[@zaph1rax]

The TED machines was beautifully designed machines, not just technically, but aesthetically. They looked much better than anything else they ever made.

[@NuntiusLegis]

I think the C64 C is the most beautiful computer ever, even more streamlined than the TED machines.

[@vcfederation]

We agree.

[@vcfederation]

We like the C64C as well! Easy to type on too!

[@mgabrysSF]

I’d love to see this re-uploaded at 50 percent levels - major audio clipping.

[@vcfederation]

You can always adjust the volume on your end. We had to boost the volume because the audio was too low.

[@mgabrysSF]

@@vcfederation That doesn't remove the clicking and distortion at any level because you fried your output.

[@esathegreat]

Are you keeping up with the Commodore?

[@vcfederation]

I certainly am!

[@georgekaplan4696]

Great story. Brilliant 👌👋👍

[@vcfederation]

I love hearing this story, no matter how many times that I hear it.

[@mreese8764]

Is there a version out there with all the "illegal opcode" included in his presentation? (I mean the fucking swearing to be clear.)

[@jeffreybrace5322]

There was no swearing in this presentation.

[@mreese8764]

@@jeffreybrace5322 OK, I got the impression that parts like in 54:17 muted some audio. But it might be an auto leveler or something.

[@vcfederation]

Oh. That was not muted. It was a glitch in the audio going to the recording computer. This was the first time that we had such a fancy setup, so there were some glitches. Lots more audio glitches than we wanted.

[@MrNoobed]

13:00 it's funny he had so many fun experiences walking around the building and nowadays that would get you fired and your badge at least wouldn't even let you in the doors of the other departments.

[@vcfederation]

Yeah. He was able to get away with a lot of stuff that one couldn't do nowadays in most places.

[@AdrianMNegreanu]

Adding a z80 instead of fixing the power supply ... it may "fix" the problem that day(mentioned so many times)but it increases the system's complexity

[@vcfederation]

Agreed, but it ended up being a good thing for many reasons.

[@BilHerd]

Yeah it pretty much pegged the risk-meter which includes risk due to circuit complexity and other issues. I was vastly amused then when the Z80 was the only way we could boot the C128 with a magic voice cartridge installed.

[@MatHelm]

What's funny is that he still thinks it was the security guards who kept locking his door...

[@vcfederation]

Who else would it be?

[@MatHelm]

@@vcfederation Any and every person he ever worked with. There's a reason some type of personality development class is required for Engineering degrees (since the 90's).

[@demoniclese]

I ADORE MY 64!!! Who didn't have 1000's of floppys!!! Remember the fast load program that sped up the drive! LOL

[@vcfederation]

Yes. Fast loading cartridges and/or JiffyDOS was essential to making the load time bearable.

[@daviniarobbins9298]

Ironically the C16 sold better in Europe where the Spectrum did best. Probably because the computer only cost 50 quid.

[@PaulioBee]

I still remember the day I got one. It was from Dixons. £49.99 got you the computer, a cassette drive, some games and a BASIC programming introduction. It was unbelievable value, only to be let down by poor reliability. My C16 spent a lot of its life back at the store.

[@vcfederation]

That's very interesting. I didn't know that.

[@AmazingAirshowVideos]

Commodore!

[@vcfederation]

Commodore rulez! Apple droolz!

[@paveljelinek772]

2:41 MOS omg when I hear that name, my palm closes in a fist.. I mean who on this world have a C64 with some MOS replacement (i did it at home, it was MOS RAM, 2 modules)?

[@vcfederation]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

[@billyjoejimbob75]

Herdware isn't the only thing though. Could've ran at megaHerds.

[@vcfederation]

LOL!

[@VK2FVAX]

I dearly wish he had been allowed to talk for as long as "he" wanted.. rather than whatever unimportant follow-up that was coming afterwards. Really enjoy anything from Bill.

[@vcfederation]

The follow up was Bill Mensch who helped to create the 6502. Michael Tomczyk ran late and Bil Herd didn't want to cut into Bill Mensch's time. But Bil's story is all in his book as well as in many other videos at VCF East over the years. He did a talk back in 2012 (kzbin.info/www/bejne/iYKUep6mpq55Z6c & kzbin.info/www/bejne/aHaTgnSNg8aLa9E & kzbin.info/www/bejne/eYCuq5Rue6egfJo) So in other words he has told this story many times before at many shows.

[@mitchbertone3809]

"Fix it or you're fired" Yeah, sounds like a fun place to work. NOT.

[@NuntiusLegis]

Management treating engineers badly was one of the key nails in Commodore's coffin.

[@vcfederation]

Hard core place to work. Sink or swim!

[@vcfederation]

Management in general was the problem at Commodore.