Mike Winger is Open to Annihilationism

[@slamrn9689]

It is very encouraging that Mike is at least taking conditional immortality seriously. It took me about 3 years before I was so confident about this stance that I was no longer afraid to bring it up in appropriate situations. I realize that, unfortunately, this comes at a cost to those in leadership and teaching positions - it should not be this way. As far as I am informed, the final state of unbelievers never was a make it or break it doctrine in the creeds.

[@jordanquinley2471]

Hi, Mark. I learned about you from Rethinking Hell, then came to appreciate your blog--not just on the topic of hell. Thanks for your teaching. In regards to the hell question, my journey is similar to your own, and I join you in prayer for Mark Winger, that he would study hard, with a willingness to submit to the Bible as best he understands it no matter where that leads, because it is God's Word. Even if he doesn't come the conclusion we did, he and his viewers will be better for it.

[@ThemCoversMB]

Hearing it from his mouth tickled me forsure :)

[@cindystokes8347]

Praise God! And shame on me because I subscribe to Mike but skipped his video about Hell because I just assumed he would have the same dismissal that others have regarding conditional immortality. I should have believed better of Mike because he doesn’t have a “dismissive” track record.

[@TimBarr-e8p]

If the Eternal Torment View is True then Reality must render the Just Judgement that the Creator of the Universe and the Author of Eternal Salvation is nothing short of a Cosmic Sociopath bent on Sadistic Pleasure. If the Conditional Immortality View is what the Bible Teaches and it IS, then God is a Universal Janitor that will Incinerate all the Trash in the Universe. The Annihilationist View is Rational, Fair, and True. Just like God is.

[@Jamie-Russell-CME]

Hi Mark!!

[@MarkWCorbett1]

Hi

[@globalwarninguk]

The word perish used in Jn 3:16 mean to remain in a state of uselessness. It doesn't mean totally destroyed. Read Luke 16:19-31 this is not a parable by the way.

[@MarkWCorbett1]

Respectfully, you are wrong about the word perish. The word translated perish in John 3:16 is apollumi. It refers to the loss of life, in this case the loss of eternal life (which is clear from John 3:16 itself). I have studied apollumi in a lot of depth and I made a word-study-video on it. Here is the link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/f2mvlKRrZtR7iLM

[@globalwarninguk]

@@MarkWCorbett1 Luke 16:19-31 makes it clear that after death that the rich man was in Hades and in a state of torment and was therefore still conscious, though obviously not in body. Hades is the New Testament word for Sheol, the world of the dead or the unseen, the place (state) of departed souls. Before the Jesus' resurrection, the souls of all who died went to Sheol/hades. And according to Luke 16:19-31, there is a great gulf/division separating those who were is Abrahams bosom from those who were in torment. I hope you're not going to argue on this point. Today you will be with me in Paradise Jesus said to the thief on the cross, we must take it to mean that to be in Hades in Abrahams bosom was paradise. But then 3 days later the resurrection happened.

[@deanwall9291]

You are wrong about Luke 16 as well. This was in a series of parables that Jesus was telling. Jesus knew his audience (all Jews) that they know there is no consciencness in hades/sheol. Matt.13v34 Jesus taught everything in parables. The biggest reason I know it's a parable. Lazarus was very sick, he would not have been allowed in the city. The word sheol is translated as grave just as many times as it is into hell. Ecc.9v5-10 the dead know nothing. Psa.6v4-5 in sheol who can give you praise. Job14v10-13 hide me in sheol until your wrath is past.

[@globalwarninguk]

@@deanwall9291 Hebrews 9:27 "it's appointed for man to die once, then judgment." Question how can the dead be judged? I thought the unsaved dead perished according to annihilationist teaching. But clearly, the resurrection of the unsaved dead happens as written in Revelation 20. The Second death. I am not going to argue about what is written. Daniel 12:2 John 5:24-29 There is a resurrection of condemnation, shame and everlasting contempt. It's amazing how many refer to John 3:16 and tell us that the saved shall not perish, then apply the opposite to the unsaved and say they perish. Then the word perish is argued about to determine it's meaning. But wait a minute, all that we in fact have read is about what does and does not happen to those who believe. If perish applies to the unsaved, with all its word meanings, then it contradicts Daniel 12:2 and John 5:24-29. The resurrection of condemnation means those who are dead are conscious and are being condemned. If we believe Jesus in Matt 25:30 for example, "the unprofitable servant is cast into outer darkness, where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth." Shouldn't we just read, that the unprofitable servant perished? Matt 25:41 The cursed go into everlasting fire. Why don't we read that they perished? Annihilationism is wishful thinking akin to the pre tribulation rapture. (another subject)

[@ben.duffour]

@@globalwarningukif they are already conscious in Hades enjoying paradise or suffering in the “Abyss”, there’s no point in judgement

[@rogersacco4624]

Heaven and Hell by Bart Ehrman.Any hell is man's invention in history.

[@Jamie-Russell-CME]

Woohoo!

[@globalwarninguk]

Prayer doesn't change what God's word says.

[@cryptojihadi265]

No kidding. But it CAN help him to break through your willful blindness and deception and start to believe what His word ACTUALLY says. You might even stop blaspheming His Holy Name.

[@joshualeibrant3443]

Now if you both would reject the gospel according to Marcion of Sinope (penal substitution) you would understand that GOD owns everything and cannot be "paid" anything for sins. Psalm 49 7, Deuteronomy 10.....

[@robertmcvicar5824]

WARNING Hell is a fundamental of the Christian faith. If you don't believe in it you're not a Christian. The rich man in hell was not Anihalated. Christ was fully aware of the wrath of God upon him for his peoples sins. Revelation 14v11 Don't rethink this.

[@globalwarninguk]

This is not aniallationism. Revelation 14:9-11 NLT Then a third angel followed them, shouting, "Anyone who worships the beast and his statue or who accepts his mark on the forehead or on the hand [10] must drink the wine of God's anger. It has been poured full strength into God's cup of wrath. And they will be tormented with fire and burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and the Lamb. [11] The smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever, and they will have no relief day or night, for they have worshiped the beast and his statue and have accepted the mark of his name."

[@MarkWCorbett1]

The book of Revelation consists mainly of a vision that uses a lot of symbolic imagery. Revelation 14:9-11 uses symbolic imagery. It is not referring to literal eternal torment. I explain this and defend it in more depth in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rZq1nHyqjNGmd5I

[@globalwarninguk]

@@MarkWCorbett1 Mark, I appreciate that it's a good thing to study the scripture. There are bad ways to interpret scripture. And doctrines like what happens when we die are very, very important, and we should be very careful to interpret scripture correctly. We all have to admit we don't always get everything right, and there are many who say they have read the bible X amount of times but still don't understand it fully. So there is room for dialogue, I get that. Over the last 30 years (and this is just my rough observation) I have heard some good teaching (sound doctrine) I have gone through the Calvin-Arminian stuff and learnt about the errors of kingdom now dominion theology (as with the NAR) then there is the false prosperity gospel and the health and wealth nonsense. Then there is the eschatological arena to wade through. But lately or at least in the last 5-10 years maybe) I've heard teaching about why original sin is not in the bible and that annihilationism or conditional immortality as it's now called is now biblical. It's like biblical evolution. (not that I believe in evolution) Soon we will be digging into scripture so deep that we will find that the wrath of God is only a smack on the hand and saying 50 hell Mary's. Now. To your point in Revelation. Yes, there is allegorical/metaphorical and symbolic language in Revelation. But there is a huge amount that is literal. However, there is nothing in Revelation 14:9-11 that is allegorical/metaphorical or symbolic, it's just plain text as clear as glass. If we consider Revelation 20 that speaks of second death. This is because what? There was a first death but then we read that death and hades delivered up the dead vs 13. And death and Hades were cast into where? The lake of fire. The same lake of fire that who was cast into? The beast, the false prophet and the Devil. Anyone not found written in the book of life will also be cast in that same lake of fire. Question. God is just, the scripture says He is. So being just do you believe he will cast the Devil in lake of fire and the Devil won't be tormented forever? Or maybe after a time the poor old Devil will say he is sorry and get let out. Would this be just. I am obviously saying these things to provoke a response. The response should be of course God is just and anyone who is justly judged who is cast into the lake of fire will be tormented there forever. As it is written in Rev 20:10. And any other dead who is in that lake of fire will also "be torment day and night forever and ever."

[@globalwarninguk]

@@MarkWCorbett1 One more thing, if I may. The scripture say that Jesus will judge the living and the dead. Dead is not the end, which is why and how Christ is able to raise the dead, both those in Him and those who are not. All dead rise at the sound of His voice. Some to everlasting life, some to everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:2

[@quantumweirdness1710]

You should read Ralph Bowles on Revelation 14:9-11