AFCIs, Clearing Series and Parallel Arcing Fault

[@bretgreen5314]

Mr. Holt, thank you. Your books helped me pass my Master test about 10 years ago. Love you : )

[@MikeHoltNEC]

It's my honor to be part of your success story.

[@LivinWorkin]

One of the things I think makes your information and learning so excellent, is the constant humility to say "correct me if I'm wrong" Using a panel of experts and leaning on their knowledge. Even the expert, still references his peers and other experts.

[@MikeHoltNEC]

Thank you.

[@MrKen59]

I don’t know if this was addressed, but in your example about the GFCI receptacle tripping with light switches, I had this happen in my house. I installed an AF/GF combination receptacle in my living room to cover the outlets thinking I was gonna protect my house. Every time I turned on the lights, the receptacle tripped. What I found was the branch circuit not only covered my Living Room, but also covered the porch lights. Well, one of the porch lights had a wire that ran out to another light in the middle of my yard. Between my house and the post, I found the wire had a nick in it, which is why I kept tripping the receptacle. In my case the receptacle probably saved someone’s life; otherwise I would’ve never known the wire was bad underground.

[@genebowdish.mageniemagic]

Parallel arc happens typically at a pinch point, and a series arc typically happens when a cord is moved and or cord bends a lot, some kinds of wire are more durable than others, ( I am talking from experience with wire that breaks after bending to much at the connection point, you will see me showing that in some videos of 12 VDC and 4.5 VDC battery and 5 VDC and 1.7 VDC circuits I put together, when I bend the wire one way, the relay, heater, AirConditioner fan, circuit stops working, when I bend the other way it works again, when I strapped the wire at the connections the wire lasts longer )

[@soulofjacobeh]

Had some challenges with an AFCI breaker in a home I rented (Florida 2020 or '21 build, if I remember right). Did some research and the NEC had a short write-up on how computer power supplies can frequently trigger them. The variable load characteristics are tough to distinguish between series faults, if I understood right. AFCI would trip a few times per month. Unfortunate, and just had to deal with it. Had an uninterruptable power supply (battery backup) that kept the PCs on when it happened. UPS would run at least once a week. Eventually discovered the UPS had a bad cable. The joint for the cable to the prongs in the plug was bad and heating up. The AFCI was doing its job the whole time, but my search for the issue was masked by the report that AFCI can trigger on false positives from computer hardware. Moved into an '04 build with old CH Eaton AFCIs that are known to go bad. Back to tripping constantly. Swapped it out and all's well.

[@estevaness]

This is true with testing AFCI or GFCI manufacturers recommended procedures to test is the test button itself on the product.. especially when you replace old two wire branch circuits with ( no ground ) with a gfci receptacle or breaker, an external tester will not trip the receptacle or breaker and you would have to hit the test button on the actual device(s) to perform its function.

[@christiansantos8904]

Test it once a month

[@ForensicCats]

Mike, thank you for your time and sharing this information, I appreciate you.

[@MikeHoltNEC]

You are most welcome.

[@TradieTrev]

75A confuses me; Could you give a real world test as American and UK panels to my knowledge in Australia with AFDDs. To my understanding there's a micro-controller that monitors the waveform. Different appliances will trigger such an event, which makes it hard for us electricians to give a diagnoses.

[@MikeHoltNEC]

The 75A peak current is shown in the graphic. Above that and if the waveform is identified as an arc, then the process begins.

[@core251]

12:00 Brian didn't get the chance to finish what he was saying. Anyone know why customers would request individual GFCIs? I guess it makes it easier to track down the guilty appliance, but how often do you need to do that.

[@MikeHoltNEC]

When the NEC requires GFCI protection, it can be a GFCI breaker at the panel or a GFCI receptacle, When it's a receptacle, it's hard to find when it trips, but at the panel, it's easier to find.

[@core251]

@@MikeHoltNEC Yeah I get that, but that's not what I was asking. Brian was starting to say (at around 12:00 timestamp) that some customers request tons of individual (redudundant) GFCI receptacles on the same circuit. Wasting a ton of money for some unknown purpose which he didn't finish explaining. I was just wondering why someone might request this. Edit: Actually I shouldn't say "reduntant" because I assume the load terminals are not used, so each recep is protected only once. But it's intentionally wired to use all those needless GFCIs on the same circuit. They gotta have a good reason?

[@brianhouse5983]

My comment was about the practice to provide individual GFCI receptacles (not line load) at every outlet so that if the individual appliance tripped it didn't affect the other kitchen appliances like wine coolers, mini ice makers, or things like instapots or microwaves with timers or clocks that would reset and interfere with a scheduled operation. This is also a common practice for Garage and outdoor receptacles here in Florida because of deep freezers that are connected to a garage receptacle circuit that also supplies an outdoor receptacle on the garage exterior.

[@core251]

@@brianhouse5983 Ah yes, I can definitely see how the outdoor receptacle and garage deep freezer would be a frequent issue! Very smart!! Thanks for the reply. Now it makes sense.

[@MikeHoltNEC]

Contact [e-mail] and ask him to clarify.

[@TacoDaddy-mr8ig]

If u install an AFCI breaker in the panel box, on a circuit will it protect the other receptacles down the line?

[@MikeHoltNEC]

Any protection (AFCI, GFCI, ground fault, overload, short-circuit) at the beginning of a circuit will protect all of the circuit...

[@cheghjiihhinnoc8cvaldez464]

There's a title issue you may wish to correct

[@MikeHoltNEC]

Thanks, fixed.

[@bretgreen5314]

What is the error please?

[@MikeHoltNEC]

It was not an error but I could have been clearer, so I changed it.

[@nickk05281982]

Could you have a bad wire between the wire and a receptacle and you changing the protection you are finding the problem area

[@nickk05281982]

Nails or over stapled wires happen

[@MikeHoltNEC]

I have no clue what you are asking, sorry.

[@HectorFabianRH]

In this situation i would recommend running a temporary wire from the panel to the receptacle, leave the gfci breaker and disconnect that homerun this will let you know if that hr wire is the issue from the panel to the first receptacle

[@timothyrients1685]

How can you be sure with a combination GFCI/AFCI breaker that both functions are working correctly when the test button is pressed?

[@MikeHoltNEC]

AFCI - You only use the AFCI test button on the AFCI. In accordance with UL (AVYI), AFCI's are tested by "The test button on the AFCI will demonstrate proper operation of the AFCI." GFCI - You use the test button on the GFCI.

[@timothyrients1685]

@@MikeHoltNEC On a dual function breaker with both AFCI and GFCI functions, there is only one purple test button. There are not separate test buttons, one for AFCI and one for GFCI.

[@MikeHoltNEC]

I did not know that.. I see that the GFCI automatically and continuously tests itself and the test button is for the AFCI. Thanks for teaching me something new.

[@RyanElectrician]

Mike. Do you have any reference/videos where you exhibit your ground rod light pole fantasy. I believe you ,but do we have anything where there is a way to prove voltage doesn't go to the ground rod?

[@MikeHoltNEC]

Watch MikeHolt.com/Fantasies

[@takeniteasyfriend]

Keyword is a specific 75 amp sampling rate triggers arc protection.

[@garymiller3194]

We have have welding going on ,oh my