There were no Wise Men at Jesus' birth. 10 Qs with Mike Winger (Ep 38)

[@sarahfaith316]

Question Time Stamps for Quick Reference: 0:00 - Intro 1. 0:02 {Learning to Pay Attention!} Were there really “Wise Men” at Jesus’ birth? 2. 12:05 {No PSA = OK?} Is it possible to not believe in Penal Substitutionary Atonement without being a Progressive? 3. 16:19 {Does God Know His Own Future?} Does God perfectly and exhaustively know His own future? If He does, is He able to change His future, or is He only able to do what He already knows He is going to do? 4. 23:04 {By Grace, Through Faith, No Works} As a former strict, legalistic Orthodox, will I ever be able to grasp that salvation truly is by faith and NOT works? I STRUGGLE! 5. 27:28 {The Temple - Continued Sacrifices?} What do we make of the Temple at the end of Ezekiel? It says God will dwell there, and sacrifices will be continued by Levites (Ch. 43:7; 19). Verse 27 indicates this will continue happening. 6. 32:27 {Is “Bodybuilding” Biblical?} My friends and I love natural bodybuilding. Is it biblical to work on your body to one day showcase it in minimal clothing on a bodybuilding stage or on social media in a non-sexual way? 7. 39:56 {True Peace in the Midst of Storms} Can you give us some thoughts on how to have peace and joy in Christ in this season, despite being stuck in some really messed up circumstances? 8. 44:33 {Choosing Sides?} A friend of a friend asked why he has to “choose sides” (God or the Devil). Why can't he just remain neutral? He claims it's not really free will when there's only one “right side.” 9. 48:35 {Purity in the Marriage Bed} Are married Christian couples allowed to engage in things like kink, costumes, and roleplay in the bedroom? Hebrews 13:4 states that the marriage bed must remain pure. But what is in and out of bounds? 10. 53:40 {David’s Salvation - Murderer?} If according to John, no murderer has eternal life abiding in him (1 John 3: 15), how do we explain David’s salvation, since he had Uriah killed? 58:24 Bonus Q! Since Christmas is next Wednesday, what’s your favorite Christmas tradition? And what Christmas traditions would you recommend avoiding/refusing to participate in?

[@ChrisVink-b5b]

All I can say is I feel the power of my social environment here in America to make me feel like an inferior person. Am I really terrible? Am I really almost evil? I feel the power of people here in Las Vegas and America to make me feel like a failure. I feel the power of my immediate relatives to do this. It is difficult to consider any day good.

[@unripetheberrby6283]

I prayed and will keep praying for you Chris, by God's will I won't stop 🥺🙏 I'm sorry you're in that kind of situation In Vas Vegas too...

[@trebmaster]

Can someone pass on this message to Mike? Mike, there are several voices telling you that you're misrepresenting the critical views about PSA. I actually know some of these guys. Would you please give them the time of day and afford a sit down discussion with one or two of them? Will Hess from the Church Split podcast wrote an entire book of his case, entitled "Crushing The Great Serpent". It's very well put together! He had the help of Joshua Sherman from the Tending Our Nets podcast to edit the book and add some colored commentary. He's worked out part of a rebuttal so far. Warren McGrew and Paul Vendredi made a 16 part rebuttal to your PSA series. If you're not interested in dealing with those who have engaged in polemics, then go with either Joshua Sherman, Tim Barber, or the Faith Unaltered podcast. It's just high time that you actually sit down for a bit and talk with the people pushing back instead of slinging little sharp-edged quips on Twitter without real engagement. Separately, if we're going to talk about atonement from the Old Testament, the works of Jacob Milgrom are pivotal to that, especially his walkthrough of themes in Leviticus, and "Lamb of The Free" by Andrew Remington Rillera makes an impeccable case for the ancient Hebrew thought on the subject.

[@timbenton1187]

@@trebmasterWell said

[@krustysurfer]

Jesus/Yahoshua wasn't born on Roman Christmas holiday of December 25th. Jesus/Yahoshua was born around if not upon the feast of tabernacles which is late September early October. I know this by Elizabeth's husband Temple service as a temple priest and that John the Baptist was born 6 months before Jesus they can ascertain when Jesus was born. Christmas is a made-up Roman Holiday. Jesus is my Lord and Savior, I'm asked to worship in spirit and in truth and be like a berean and discern what is fact and what is a lie. Thank you Mike God bless you and yours.

[@justinnicholson7774]

Let’s get Mike to 1 Million!!!

[@keng9377]

Ruslan is catching up… (His channel is sorta new too).

[@annbrucepineda8093]

Our Bible teacher is now our pastor. He was the associate pastor and then, when the pastor resigned, the interim pastor as well as a missionary with his wife, ministering to couples. We voted last Sunday and he and his family, including five children from newborn to less than ten years old, will be able to move into the manse. Praise the Lord. He recommended your lessons. If you ever come to San Salvador, come visit us. Union Church is beautiful and has lots of children. I may be the oldest now.

[@Yawnyaman]

Bless you! It is good when you have a pastor who loves the Word.

[@JoeC-f9z]

Regarding question #7, about being joyful and content in really messed up circumstances, I've found great comfort in reading psalms 27 to 34 every day and praying regarding the promises contained therein. There are many areas of scripture where you can do this, but this is what God showed me recently as I was alone and quiet before Him seeking His help.

[@mytreasuredcreations]

Thank you for sharing. This is so helpful. ❤

[@tsukareppi]

Thank you so much for this. I struggle with this, too, and will read these Psalms today. :)

[@CartiershiPs]

Hi ya Pastor! I'm a follower of Christ and last night youtube played one of your vids at random. I heard you say something that will help me a lot and wanted to say thanks and praise Christ 🎉🎉🎉 you said essentially 'don't trust your feelings, trust what the Bible says'. Been a long time since something clicked so well for me, and you're correct. I don't doubt the Scriptures, however i can't wrap my head around why Christ or God would choose someone like me. That brings into me a struggle that keeps going around. Yet if i place my trust in the Scriptures, that struggle will end. I have to accept I'll never know everything, and many things will be beyond me to test my faith (like how autocorrect tests my patience). Thnx and praise Christ Jesus our Lord and Merry Christmas to yall

[@kimgary5771]

Always so good. Thank you Mike for standing for Jesus our Lord and Savior! Merry Christmas!

[@marthathompson2012]

On parent-warning question #9, I think you’re so right about the porn invasion of our entire culture. We’re so accustomed to this that we barely recognize it as what it is. The overstimulation and obsession with sex is very unhealthy and it pushes for this “novelty” idea because it’s running out of intrigue-when in a natural setting it’s about the love and bonding between two people who are in love and connected on a deeper level. If you’re missing the deeper level, it’s very shallow and superficial, and so much of what you’re after is that type of thing that you get addicted to and need to add to like any drug addiction because it’s not enough anymore. This is why people create weird fetishes and bizarre behaviors that mess with reality. I’m just gonna add that often the idea of roll play stems from the idea that the person wishes they were engaging with someone else besides their spouse, and that’s unhealthy for the relationship and their spiritual development.

[@AndreaWhoGoesByAndrea]

Yes, exactly. I commented about this before I saw your comment, but you probably said it better. Don't engage in fantasies that make your spouse into someone "else".

[@marthathompson2012]

@ absolutely! Totally agree!

[@marthathompson2012]

@ absolutely! Totally agree!

[@labraw10]

brilliant wisdom!!!

[@alainaelysse9920]

I'd just add that it wouldn't hurt to consider what a "kink" actually is (a desire for something outside of the norm) and the motivation for wanting it. I bring this up because I think when you realize Why you want something it's easier to figure out whether God would want that for you too. And you can ask questions like.... if you're feeling a lack of trust or control, is the bedroom really where God would want you to work that out?...that kind of thing. I hope that makes sense. It's helpful for the intellectual part of things, I think. But as far as the spiritual, if it were me I''d just pray about it and trust that He'll do whatever He needs to do with me. He could take it away all together, or maybe let you sweat it out a bit. It happened that way with me and horror movies. The desire just kind of got lost. I went from "I can't get enough" to "meh, I'm good", out of nowhere. I didn't do that, He did. But for smoking it was different. It was a longer and harder process. He didn't take the cravings and desire away, but he gave me the strength to push passed it and knocked some much-needed lessons into me during the process...and then He took the desire away lol. So, I could be wrong, but I don't see why it would work any differently with kinks. Could be harder cause it's sex. But I don't think the level of difficulty determines whether it's right or wrong in God's eyes, ya know? If you straight up ask, He'll let you know if you're doing things He does or doesn't want you doing, one way or another.

[@commenter5901]

We just had our church children's Christmas program and they had a doll for baby Jesus and a toddler played Jesus for when the wise men came. It was quite cute because the kid playing Joseph looked to be 5 years old, so he wasn't that much bigger than the kid playing Jesus

[@shellyscholz1256]

My youngest was born in November and she weighed ten and a half pounds at birth. By Christmas she weighed about thirty pounds and the girl playing Mary nearly dropped my daughter.😂

[@zea.6723]

😂😂😂😂

[@gohawks3571]

​@@shellyscholz1256Oh man🤣

[@MatthewRobertHenry]

😂😂😂 ​@@shellyscholz1256

[@littleboots9800]

Children's nativity plays are just the most adorable thing! I remember all my own, (I was a donkey, a shepherd and once an angel,) and my daughters too.

[@mesamom62]

Your theory about the use of the gifts of the magi has also been my theory, but I had not heard it any place else. I am stoked!

[@isaacsmith5351]

For me, the foreknowledge question has always been easier to explain by talking about God's relationship with time. He is outside of time but is eternally present in every moment so his foreknowledge isn't necessarily a consequence of knowing the future as if he were a very special human, but because time itself is God's creation.

[@davidjcheney]

As you were reading it, I thought of something: not only did they offer the birds because they were poor; they didn't offer a lamb because Jesus would become the Lamb whose blood atoned for sin.

[@pkmcnett5649]

@@davidjcheney thst is not why.

[@trebmaster]

I would recommend the book "Lamb of The Free" by Andrew Remington Rillera. It will help you to see the clearer picture on offerings and sacrifices as understood by the ancient Hebrews.

[@jml5100]

Yeah, I don't think that's it. But it is interesting that the sacrifice Mary gave involved a sin offering. Checkmate, Roman Catholics.

[@larrysnoova3438]

@@jml5100wow didn’t think about that. Can’t wait to offer this to my catholic friends to think about lol

[@davidjcheney]

​@@trebmaster I heartily share the same position as Mike has previously laid out regarding the clear biblical teaching on penal substitutionary atonement

[@KFish-bw1om]

Great teaching today Mike! Really solid stuff dealing with all of these tough questions! Looking forward to the next round of Hebrews!

[@sentinelalerttowncrier7019]

My pastor asked me to be one of the wise men in a live nativity scene we put on at a local wal mart parking lot in Cleveland Texas many years ago. We all got there and put on our costumes and I started walking away toward the highway. Pastor said, "Steve, Where you going?" I said, "Dayton so I can start this way".

[@patriciaboggs8882]

We were setting up Christmas decorations and the nativity in the western family room. Our son put the wise men on a bookshelf in the living room on the opposite side of the house. He then moved them a little closer every day as they traveled from the east. I thought it was funny but I'm also glad to see he's listening!

[@markhaszoe-life6337]

Thanks Mike it's always a pleasure to listen to your insights. Blessing to you & Family, Blessings to Sarah & all your Ministry. Merry Christmas

[@pkmcnett5649]

Wise men at/in nativity scenes is a pet peeve of mine. Adding them later satisfies my OCD. It is so obvious that the wise men were not at the stable.

[@evansjessicae]

You can set them on the same table, but farther away. Like they're on the way. ☺️

[@LynneMadison0731]

@@evansjessicae LOL! That's a good idea! 😄

[@toreyhorton1789]

They were never present when Jesus was a baby. By the time they arrived, Jesus was already a young child living with his parents. It’s important to recognize that most stories and beliefs about the holiday known as Christmas are inaccurate. As noted in Matthew 2:11, without GPS and modern vehicles, it likely took them at least a year to find Jesus. This delay is why Herod ordered the execution of children two years old and younger after realizing he had been deceived and trying to piece together the timeline of the birth event, as stated in Matthew 2:16.

[@gohawks3571]

I was often worried about poor Mary. She's pregnant pre Joseph, there's no room at the inn, she has to give birth in a barn full of animals, and I assumed it was just the two of them, so a man and an unexperienced-in-birth virgin, then these wise guys show up! "Ay, we wanna worship da baby! Here's some gold, ointment n stuff!" I was so glad to learn it was later, esp after learning there could be like 30 dudes. That's past awkward and straight into awful 😭😂

[@Cara96]

There was no stable. Read the text - no mention of a stable. The manger is a feeding trough- and was standard in a poor persons family home where they kept their few animals overnight- the “inn” wasn’t a hotel as we know it- it means a “guest room” and Mary & Joseph couldn’t use it because it was already occupied. So Jesus was born in the family home, where the manger was.

[@jameswelsh3433]

Mike, I think you nailed it on question #9

[@2Peter3Nine]

Agreed! Have been convicted more and more of this the older I've gotten.

[@cindymichel4870]

Absolutely 💯 right. Pornography is a slow poison that builds up in your soul.

[@debbieweahkee3820]

I love your style, humor and knowledge, thank you!

[@nikki.watts.]

24:54 thank you so much for this advice! I needed this today. I have been struggling with this so much.

[@time2mowgrass]

So good! Thanks for the encouragement! Yes God is in the details! Praise the Lord!

[@cathybartoletti5846]

Mike, I absolutely love watching your channel! God Bless you!

[@midimusicforever]

Well done, Mike!

[@Anabee3]

David Suchet is an EXTRAORDINARY orator who's read the Bible to create audio book. I HIGHLY recommend it to EVERYONE. He's on YT (free of charge).

[@gohawks3571]

He's so soothing! James Earl Jones too👍

[@gabymeyer8003]

Justin Peters read the entire Bible in 2023, and I replayed it this year. He has a very good voice.

[@luisarodriguez8197]

It really is important to read slowly and pay attention. Great reminder. Thank you.

[@cbak1819]

So true..Or just listen to other's and learning wrong. Then years later digging in and seeing it for what God intended, not studying it for yourself robs us. As God intended and it blesses us so.

[@michellehand2271]

What a great discussion. Thank you so much Mike!

[@Debt-tective]

Your prayer in the end really spoke to me, amen, and thank you, Mike.

[@Eben_Haezer]

Thank You Brother Mike for this video

[@kadinlamp929]

As someone who lifts weights and does pay attention more to hypertrophic training, Mike you hit the nail on the head.

[@Rejoice1631]

The question about "picking sides" is answered in Scripture, when it says, "He that is not with Me is against Me, and he that gathereth not with Me scattereth abroad"... and again, "If you are not for Me, you are against Me".

[@MrSeedi76]

Mark 9:40 KJV [40] For he that is not against us is on our part.

[@IlseZamarripa]

Thanks, pastor Mike! God bless you.

[@victorcharlie7491]

Great q&a Mike and Sarah, Thank-You! Merry Christmas, God bless You all!

[@sarahfaith316]

Merry CHRIST-mas! :)

[@victorcharlie7491]

​@@sarahfaith316 Merry Christmas Sarah, God bless You! 🙂

[@sarahfaith316]

@@victorcharlie7491 God bless you too!

[@Crazyathome24]

53:16 I just want to speak to the 9th question. A lot of the acts spoken of involve pressuring a partner into something they're uncomfortable with; they can cause pain and discomfort and defile the partner's body. A lot of these acts have and are historically associated with pagan religion and culture and don't reflect the Biblical concept of being made in the image of God.

[@doctorbobdc]

Yes, I absolutely agree. Let's all lean into not using vague metaphors.

[@hfrt29]

You gift good answers thank you for applying scripture in everything.good advice👌

[@ingela_injeela]

I know they weren't present at "the Manger scene", and that there were "only" the shepherds - and a sky full of angels. ✨ But we still have the (three) Wise Men with their gifts at the Nativity scene, because they belong to the Bethlehem story, and say something about Who the Child was (is). When giving gifts to the children, it's good to remind them how the little Jesus was given gifts too, and this is why we give each other gifts.

[@January14q]

🎄❄️🎄Merry Christmas to you and your team! Thank you for all the videos!

[@danbarnhart999ministries]

21:23 we have Free will and are Predestined at the same time, they are not at Odds

[@toreyhorton1789]

The two concepts are mutually exclusive. They cannot exist at the same time. They contradict each other.

[@danbarnhart999ministries]

@toreyhorton1789 how so, GOD knowing the Future and every aspect of it and being the only being that does, and us, being finite human beings only capable of choosing in the present. Only God Knows who is written in the book of life, GOD plotted out existence, we are freely choosing in the present, but the end has been declared from the beginning, everyone everywhere's choices end in kingdom come. GOD knowing and us choosing are apples and oranges, if you choose Christ, you were always going to, if you reject Him, you were always going to, but you still made the choice.

[@midimusicforever]

@@toreyhorton1789 No, they don't. We simply relate to time differently than God does.

[@toreyhorton1789]

You're indeed echoing something you've heard and want to believe, assuming it's correct. However, this perspective is not supported by scripture. Not a single scripture, I emphasize, not one scripture suggests that God knows every detail of the future. Because of this mistaken belief, you might think that the concepts of predestination and free will can coexist without contradiction. Understanding this unscriptural notion will help clarify that predestination and free will are indeed incompatible. From early on in the Holy writings, YHWH demonstrates His choice not to know everything in advance, allowing events to unfold without full knowledge of their outcomes. Take Genesis 18:21, for example: “I will go down to see if what they have done justifies the cry that has come up to me. If not, *I will find* *out.”* This verse alone illustrates that God does not opt to foresee every possible future. Having the ability to do something and actually doing it are two different things. Just like everyone else, God must choose to act upon His abilities; actions don't simply happen by default. Psalm 11:4 Psalm 15:3

[@LawlessNate]

That is 110% a contradiction. Free will, as meant by anyone that is not Calvinistic, means having real agency in your choices. If we are "predestined", as Calvinists define the term,, then we have 0 agency whatsoever in our "choices" as only God has any agency. If the reason you had waffles for breakfast instead of pancakes is because God chose for you to "choose" waffles then God had agency and made the choice, you had no agency and therefore simply played out God's choice for you, and therefore you didn't have free will by any accurate definition of the terminology. Free will, as in libertarian free will that scripture seems to indicate where we we actively make real choices based on our own agency, is not at odds with God's foreknowledge. As Mike explained, our actions and choices are not based on God's foreknowledge; God's foreknowledge is based on our choices. Becasue we make choices now, therefore God knows beforehand.

[@basedghostcoasttocoast]

Merry Christmas!!!

[@DaveParrish-cm1oe]

Mike, I am the President of a small Christian College that is dedicated to the careful examination of scripture. We understand and recognize the impact of culture and the influences of traditions on how scripture is often misinterpreted. I’ve been following your teaching for quite a while now and want to thank you for your willingness to speak frankly as you carefully examine God’s Word and address practical concerns. Thank you.

[@suzum.9713]

Thankyou, Pastor Mike.😊

[@kathleengibbons841]

Thank you for clarifying the story😊

[@oliverjamito9902]

It's amazing what GRACE can do? Amen

[@sorce2175]

Anonymous Question 8. I listened to a sermon once, I think by Tony Evans. Said a guy was "on the fence" about belief. Long story short the devil said, " I own the fence"'. Tell your friend of a friend about the peace in Jesus Christ. The fence is not a safe place, the only safe place is in the body of Christ.

[@midlander4]

And a safer place is not believing in made-up garbage

[@TheGrandJew223]

I grew up in a very legalistic church that believed you needed to overcome your nature entirely, get to the point that you don’t sin at all, in order to make it to heaven. The lord dealt with me and showed me through reading and prayer that there were some issues with that church and that it wasn’t where he wanted me. I left and spent a few years studying the Bible to try to figure out what it truly meant, and not just read my prior beliefs into it. It took a lot of time for me to accept the idea of being saved by faith alone under grace, and even when I got there, I still had some doubts that would pop up from time to time in he back of my mind. For me, the more I read the Bible, the more saved by grace becomes clear, and the more my prior doubts fade away. Especially when setting some time aside and reading full books rather than splitting them up into a chapter or two a day. For anyone struggling with this, if you can set aside a couple hours on a Saturday to read through Romans and really focus on what it’s saying and the meaning behind it, that really helped me.

[@beckerod777]

When my mom told me there was no Santa, I was shocked and dismayed that she would ever have lied to me and it made me wonder what else she lied about. It was very traumatic and not at all a good experience.

[@cherietillapaughhott1012]

That was excellent, and answered some questions I had years ago. Thank you!

[@BoldBoC]

Q7 is much needed right now.

[@rookholgado]

I've never thought to go deep into the wisemen but my mother and I recently spoke about Christ time of birth as well. Ive learned despite celebrating Christmas, my mother doesn't believe he was born in December. There were workers in the field at the time of his birth and most likely he was a late summer early fall (modern day september/october) baby since he was born 6 months after John! ...true honor of kings to seek out a matter!

[@patriarchmike]

Wow I never thought of that. If the first coming was so greatly misunderstood then that makes sense that the second coming would not make sense to us.

[@hectorado]

Not saying Jesús was born in the 25th, just saying that in Mexico we have Navidad (Christmas) the 25th, then the 28th we have "día de los inocentes" (innocents day) to commemorate the deaths of the babies and then the 5th of January we have "día de reyes" (kings day) to commemorate the wise men visit. It's interesting to me that the Catholic church has the order "right"

[@JoJo-Wilcocks]

I was thinking that too. The Catholics have some things right I guess.

[@jettruth]

How is that the right order when the wise men came and went before the children under two were killed. Herod ordered the deaths of the children after the wise men left without telling him.

[@eddardgreybeard]

Remember now we follow the Gregorian Calendar, which is 13 days off the Julian Calendar, which means the original date of Christmas was actually January 5th. But, you know, we need our "Saturnalia" conspiracies and all that trash.

[@elei417]

Praise God for heaping you to love the word of God

[@godsgospelgirl]

24:41 This is so helpful.

[@jackiefields1607]

Thank you for your thoughts about Santa!! Too many Christians let Santa creep in and slowly crowd out the real meaning. Let’s make Christmas a beautiful celebration of our Lord!

[@rocketmanshawn]

I hope Mike returns to look at Ezekiel's temple in the Hebrews series. How does what was fading away return? From shadow to substance to shadow again.

[@gillianwright356]

C S Lewis said that God is outside time. He sees what we choose, as a man sitting on a hilltop sees cars going by on the road below, some turning, some stopping. He sees them but does not order what they do. This explanation helped me.

[@mikhailyaremkiv]

For the analogy to be accurate, the man on the hilltop would have to also: 1. Predict when and where the cars would turn or stop before the turn or stop and 2. The man on the hilltop would have the power to control those cars.

[@nccrchurchunusual]

Chuck Missler talks about the "helicopter" view the Lord has. He created time so He is outside of time- except when Christ came as a baby.

[@dukepercentie9029]

THANK YOU SIR GOD BLESS YOU , AMEN

[@mesamom62]

19:01 Mike, I'm a grandma now and have these kinds of conversations with my older grandkids. And yes, that grandma response is how I explain it. The more complex answer is the Aunt Cathy response.

[@midlander4]

So you're poisoning your grandchildrens' minds. Well done.

[@mesamom62]

@midlander4 no, not at all.

[@cbak1819]

Oh I missed it again

[@mshdptato797]

Yep, I missed it too. Although now that I'm thinking about it, I don't know what I even would have asked.

[@cbak1819]

@@mshdptato797oh I ment missed the live cast. Praying your question will get on the list. 🙏🏼

[@mshdptato797]

@@cbak1819 Thank you it's much appreciated.

[@jayvansickle7607]

In my mind…the problem about Gods foreknowledge isn’t necessarily about our choice. It’s that he still chose to punish, and hiw to punish us…knowing what we would choose. You have to conclude that God Wanted people in hell.

[@mrupholsteryman]

He doesn't force our poor choices as He doesn't desire any to perish...but for all to repent. ​@jayvansickle7607

[@tonymeazell7591]

You should do a deeper dive on fitness culture in general. I promise, more viewers than you think have this interest, and might never have thought about how it intersects with their faith.

[@livingstrategically]

We learn to think more biblically with every episode. Thank you, Mike! You have such a gifting, and we are grateful you are using it to impact so many lives.

[@midlander4]

Such a grifting you mean

[@livingstrategically]

"Better is a poor man who walks in his integrity than he who is perverse in speech and is a fool. Also it is not good for a person to be without knowledge, and he who hurries his footsteps errs. The foolishness of man ruins his way, and his heart rages against the Lord." Proverbs 19:1-3 📖

[@SpiderboyN2Jesus]

A good example I like to use about God's foreknowledge is this; If you already know a story (i.e.: if you've previously read a book or watched a movie) and experience it again, you already know what is going to happen. But that does not mean that you caused it to happen. In this way, you can see that foreknowledge and causation are not mutually exclusive. Maybe it's not the best allegory for God's power and involvement in our lives, but it's a very easy way to understand that foreknowledge and causation are not mutually exclusive. Deja Vu is another example; actually. Just because you've experienced a series of events previously and know what will happen next, does not mean you are causing them to happen.

[@oliverjamito9902]

Unto all who have an ear let them hear!

[@stephen4384]

I think people purposely ignore details like the wise men for entertainment purposes. It doesn't really change theology and I think people can get too distracted fussing about it

[@theeternalsbeliever1779]

It does change theology because the entire premise of Christmas, in particular the gift giving, is that the wise men were present on Jesus' birth day and celebrated it by giving Him gifts. It is a lie, and God's law forbids lying. Furthermore, associating Christ's birth with a blatantly idolatrous is blasphemy. God makes it clear how serious a matter it is because it was one of the crimes that warranted offenders to be put to death under the Sinai Covenant.

[@jml5100]

​@theeternalsbeliever1779 what are you smoking? I've never heard the premise of gift giving as related to those guys. Gift giving is because God gave Jesus, the greatest gift. I'm pretty sure Jesus was their on his birthday, so chill out. And I know December 25th wasn't likely the exact day but the Bible doesn't give the day so it's obviously not a huge deal.

[@Yawnyaman]

​@theeternalsbeliever1779 Gift giving is a common feature of many festivals. I don't think you needed the gifts of the Magi to justify it at Christmas or indeed any other occasion.

[@DanielJ1776]

@@theeternalsbeliever1779this part! “I think” is the reason we’re here! Hey I know the Bible DOESNT teach the wise men were there at birth but I thiiink we should just do it. Who cares if the new converts get confused when they study the passages on their own time, I think it’s okay buddy don’t you? You’re gonna harden your heart always wanting someone to be right! You’re gonna turn into a Pharisee for standing firm in what the Bible teaches!!! Don’t judge lest ye be judged!! I think you’re being ignorant thinking you know better than Pastor Lucifer, because he said it’s okay that our *biblical play* changes what the Bible says. …THE DAYS we’re planning for this play, choosing actors, the costumes and getting food organized YOU BETTER NOT READ THAT BIBLE LINE FOR LINE AND TRY TO APPLY THAT HERE IN MY CONGREGATION CAUSE I ALREADY SAID WHAT WERE DOING. -your leader: Dr. Lucifer.

[@davidhuxley4818]

Another thing that Jesus achieved at the Cross that has really been striking me recently is that He proved that He is worthy to rule God's Kingdom. Because of what He did at the Cross, nobody (who has even the remotest understanding of the Cross) can point their finger at Him and say "YOU don't deserve the Kingdom!"

[@tirzahjames6533]

Thanks Mike 👍🏾🙏🏾🙂

[@sarahday5861]

God isn't in time. He doesn't have a future or past per se, He Is. Time is a creation that only exists within/because of God. It's mind boggling to us who live in time. However great answer, Mike.

[@markus5237]

Exactly. Our conception of time may be entirely different to his. Everything in our entire span of existence may be all entirely in his current present. We will never fully conceptualize this.

[@bjs4360]

Another thing we read into the Christmas story is that Mary was next thing to having the baby when they arrived in Bethlehem, but Luke very clearly tells us that while they were there the days were accomplished that she should be delivered.

[@madstarboard]

I needed to hear 8:34

[@NancySwass]

Blessed is the LORD, our GOD.

[@DeanStrydom-v4p]

16:20 The way I understand this, you can only know what will happen because it happens. You can't have foreknowledge of something that never happened. You can't know scenario A will happen, then make a different choice to make scenario B happen. Scenario A never then occurred so how then would one have foreknowledge about an event that never occurred? So ultimately whatever foreknowledge you have, no matter what you do with this knowledge, what you foresaw is what will happen. So the choice dictating the foreknowledge makes sense.

[@davidwithington140]

Mike, I understand that the wise men were not at the nativity, but your first point about them coming to the house- I was taught that in this time, it was common for a part of a house to be where the animals are.

[@Cara96]

@@davidwithington140 you’re right! I’m surprised at Mike not knowing this. It’s very well researched that a common person’s house was a one room building with a raised area where the family lived and a lower area where they brought in their cow/ donkey etc at night. There was a manger aka feeding trough built in at the interface between these two levels. The door led out from the lower level. Then such a house would also have , either on the roof or built onto the end of the house, a “guest room” ( Greek κατάλυμα Transliteration: katalyma) mistranslated as “inn”. This room was occupied and so Mary & Joseph couldn’t stay there “there was no room in the katalyma” This is the same word used in Mark 14:14 for the guest (upper) room where Christ shared the Last Supper with His disciples. It wasn’t a hotel as we know it. There’s a different word for a hotel where guests pay to stay. There’s zero mention of a stable )or cave) in the text and absolutely no need to assume that the presence of a manger meant that they were in anything other than a normal family home. Think Biblically! 🤔

[@AZmom60]

@@Cara96. Although if they were staying in a random person‘s upper room or end room, why would they have moved the baby to the manger and not kept him in the room where they were staying? Did they just go knocking on people’s doors ? While it doesn’t specifically say that they were in a stable, there was no room left available, except where the manger was, correct?

[@Cara96]

@@AZmom60 There was no room in the katalyma - the “guest room” (a separate room built on the roof or built on to the end of the house) It wasn’t available. Maybe already occupied. They didn’t stay there they stayed in the normal family home which was ONE room comprising two levels with a manger in it at edge of the lower level for the family animals. Since Joseph was of the house of David and Bethlehem was the City of David it wouldn’t have been hard to find kin there who could accommodate them. No need to trail round looking for a place to stay.

[@AZmom60]

@ must have smelled great in their living room!! I always understood it to be the living space above where the animals were. It’s fine by me either way.

[@xpsm249]

Regarding the 'friend of a friends' question; In choosing the "in-between" you are still exercising free-will.

[@oldbenkenob1]

Well, Joseph and the shepherds who listened to the instructions of angels were probably wise men...

[@mikeyvangelism]

Smarty pants 😅

[@gohawks3571]

​@@mikeyvangelism🧠👖🧠👖🧠👖! Better than 👖🔥😂

[@mattd624]

For Q 3, an interesting thought experiment: What if both God and some human, say, your uncle, independently know your future decisions? Would this mean both God and that uncle are causing your decisions? ❤

[@NancySwass]

Pastor Mike... Joy to you and yours, on the day we keep in remembrance of the birth of Christ, Who is GOD with us. QUESTION: Does GOD have emotions?

[@jml5100]

I worked at a church once where a member pointed out that the star wouldn't have been over the manger at the time of Jesus's birth. This church always had the same nativity play every year, and when i supported what this woman has pointed out, the old lady that ran the church acted like we were asking people to worship Satan. I mean, seriously, heresy is pretty bad ya know, but change a decoration in the revered children's play??? No joke, the evil old lady that ran the church did eventually run me and my family out of town for not falling in line with her, though sadly for bigger issues like her refusing to follow the child protection policy.

[@davidhuxley4818]

Nice pick up on the lamb vs doves!

[@jmoss55ish]

Thank You! Jesus was a child and they lived in a house…and your video hasn’t even started. Are you going to talk about the tree? I truly appreciate you, your heart for Yaherh’s Word and your teaching.

[@noblebreton]

Dear Mike, its seems to me that you think a manger and a stable are the same thing. I have noticed you make this mistake in the past. A stable is a building for housing animals and a manger is a feeding trough to feed those animals in the stable. So Jesus would have been born in a stable (the building) and then placed in the manger (the feeding trough) inside that same stable. Figured i would let you know. Keep up the good work.

[@chrisr4932]

I would go even further on #9. As I hear the term "role play," it communicates that the person and spouse are pretending to be someone they are not. So when doing this, you are pretending your partner is someone they are not. This would not be inherently different than watching p0*n in my opinion. I would discourage all people (but especially Christian) against even "safe" or "harmless" role play. It's not harmless because it could cause your spouse to feel inadequate, or it could cause you or your spouse to start wondering and fantasizing about other people or wanting to push boundaries into even darker territory. Avoid all of the things listed on that question, and simply enjoy your spouse in all of his or her aspects. Naturally and without anything added.

[@blindminder]

Good answer Pastor….about the guy that didn’t want to choose sides

[@fakeyououtdotcom2409]

Mike, you ahould do a10 part series on this very important subject. 😂😂😂

[@AZmom60]

Which question?

[@fakeyououtdotcom2409]

@AZmom60 Were there wise men at Jesus birth? (I was being sarcastic.) It was a reference to Mike's unique ability to major on the minors. 😋

[@teresatrump8366]

As my reading of the Bible, the temple is not for now, but after Chrust's return. And yes, not only in honor of Chrust and how the Holy Days lay out God's plan, but also as remembrance of what the penalty of sin required - blood.

[@Thundawich]

With regards to the first question, why did Herod restrict the killing order to in and around bethlehem? According to Luke there was just a massive unprecedented people migration around the time of Jesus' birth, any of the tens/hundreds of thousands of temporary visitors could have been the one to birth Jesus and then just leave to go back home.

[@commenter5901]

He would have probably known the prophecies about the Messiah being from Bethlehem.

[@Thundawich]

​@@commenter5901 Right.... but the census meant that tens/hundreds of thousands of people went in to Bethlehem during that time period, then scattered back out afterwards.

[@jackieann5494]

Very interesting question !

[@toreyhorton1789]

@@Thundawich Could you clarify the source of those figures? Which credible peer-reviewed publications are supplying you with those census statistics?

[@new_comment]

Pre knowledge doesn't equal predestination.

[@alicejump2290]

Most of us, older Christians knew this! And the importance of why and when was taken seriously! The importance of the wise men and the star and how all ways made provision for His son have been lost when we choose the myths instead.

[@keyman6689]

#3. I like the example of a football game. You record the game to watch later, but a friend calls you and tells you who won. Your foreknowledge doesn't affect the player's free will. It's not any exact parallel as God is outside of time and can insert himself into time. But it's a way of attempting to understand God being able to see everything from beginning to end, yet we are freely making choices. His interactions within time may affect and influence our choices, but we are still freely making them. Even though he knows our choices beforehand. It's one of those things that is difficult to understand cuz it's God we're talking about, and we're not him.

[@oliverjamito9902]

Shared "i" Am Hosts Meeks will say, what is physical strength without sincere conversations? For many with great physical strength. Many of their walls comes crushing down in front! Hosts Meeks will say, physical strength came with sincere conversations given just for thee!

[@Kathleen253]

Some good questions, thought provoking rasy to get off into the weeds. That's why it best to avoid unprofitable arguments that are not clearly defined in the Scriptures.

[@a.collins5590]

Mike, I love your ministry. I would like to click on the "like" button, but I don't have one.

[@zachv]

Thanks

[@gabrielbarker466]

Thanks for your answers. I like number 3. Reminds me of physics particularly the many worlds hypothesis. So basically visualize a thread, now flip a coin, heads you buy pizza, tails you buy a salad. That creates a split in the thread. Two possible realities each with completely different results. We have no idea the implications of our choice and we choose it randomly ourselves because we are inside of time walking the thread as it were. There may be many threads, but our thread is the only "reality." Now what if God doesn't walk the threads? He's like the spider (not in a bad way, just for the thought experiment). He sees the whole web. He exists outside of time and causality. It's hard to wrap my mind around this concept beyond that. But if you see God as existing on a level not bound to the treads of causality. Then everything works. We have free will and make real choices. God exists outside of that web and knows it all because time and causality do not affect him.

[@oliverjamito9902]

Include Grace unto thy works!

[@oliverjamito9902]

Shared "i" Am come forth Shared Feet 3 commands resting upon GRACE!

[@TruthfromBibleMinistry]

What is the final fate of the wicked according to Ps 1:4-6, Ps 2:7-9, Ps 37:20, Mal 4:1-4, Jude 1:7, Obad 1:7, John 3:16

[@christopherdale1745]

I can't help but think St. Nicholas is appalled that his name has become such a distraction from the name of Christ.

[@Unknown2Yoo]

Thanks for giving your view on body building. Belly dancing is my main form of exercise that doesn't bore me like other cardio or weight lifting. But I only do it alone or with other women in an instructional setting because, like you said, elsewhere is outside of the clique/culture of people who know it's a non-s*xual form of self-expression and communal celebration/activity. I couldn't help but feel convicted if I performed in public, and having the vocabulary to express that to non-Christians who see no problem in performing is helpful.

[@readtruth6670]

So why would Mary and Joseph stay for so long in Bethlehem? They travel for a tax/census, and just stay there for over a year? Months, sure, especially if during high holiday feasts, but longer than that would be difficult unless they have immediate means of financial support (which the magi haven’t given them yet). It could be the magi have no clear idea as to how old the Messiah child is, and so neither would Herod-so he plays it ‘safe’ by killing the boys under 2. The star has to be something that gets them there at an opportune time, and could have appeared to them before His birth. (I think it was the Shekinah glory prophesied to return in Ezekiel 43 as Christ is the true Temple and Presence of YHWH). So their arrival is definitely after His birth, but doesn’t seem likely to be too long after to me.

[@LucianC137]

The Lord literally Himself has said "I will never leave you nor forsake you"....that is insane....

[@Yawnyaman]

3.29 Being in a manger didn't stop Jesus being in a house. In that culture, many houses incorporated animal shelters.

[@DeniseThomson-y5p]

But he was a child not a babe in the manger.

[@gratefulpipeandcigar3239]

We should all, as much as we can, start a trend of nativity scenes with shepherds bowing low instead of wisemen. How simple is that? Maybe some manufacturers can start doing that.

[@jadedandbitter]

The question about God knowing his future is far deeper and esoteric than you think and is deeply connected to concepts of dimensions and specifically dimensions beyond the third. Without getting too far into the weeds, dimensions are avenues of existence, but change in a dimension requires a higher dimension + time. I.e. to change an image in the second, you need to intersect a plane with a three dimensional object in the third over time. A growing circle is a progressive slice of a sphere, for example. So when things move and react in 3 dimensions, they do because of structured rules the objects are interacting with over time-that is, entropy, the 4th dimension. When entropic outcomes change, it's an interaction with the 5th dimension, and when the rules themselves change, it's interaction with the 6th. A 4 dimensional entity is deterministic, subject to the laws of entropy. A 5th dimensional entity is required to make choices within possible entropic outcomes, and thus for free will to exist. A 6th dimensional entity can change those rules, which is like changing the laws of the universe-it would look like magic or something utterly incomprehensible. A 7th dimensional entity would have the ability to change the way those changes could be performed. The ability to not just change the universe but to change the tools used. Does anybody remember how in numerology the number of man is 5, that of angels/demons 6, and God 7? Yeah. Anyways, remember how to change you have to have a dimension greater+time? If there is no 8th dimension, God is all there is at 7, but would not change. He is, and will be, Himself eternally. He knows His own future because it is static. He exists, always has, and always will, without change. So the question of God's future, or past, is strange. It will always be what it was.