Chieftain about Tanks from Poland to Iraq

A talk with Nicholas “Chieftain” Moran the military historian for Wargaming America / World of tanks and me. (Note: this was a private meeting). We talk about Shermans, Panzer IIIs, Panzer IVs, US Tank Crew Losses in World War 2, Guderian, Doyle, Liddell Hart, dust signature, tank bites, logistics, tactics, operations, Patton, intelligence, North Africa, Sicily, Normandy, Iraq, Zombies and a few other topics that crossed our minds. All in front of a Flak Tower (Command Version) in Vienna, Austria.
Link to Chieftain’s Channel: / @thechieftainshatch
Also available as podcast on iTunes and podcast apps- BUT corrections and quotes are only noted in the video: shows.pippa.io/military-histo...
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» SOURCES «
Herrera, Geoffrey L.: Inventing the Railroad and Rifle Revolution: Information, Military Innovation and the Rise of Germany. In: The Journal of Strategic Studies, Vol. 27, June 2004, p. 243-271
Army Air Forces Statistical Digest, World War II
www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/...
Operation Think Tank - Question on Influence of Liddell Hart & Guderian (timestamped)
• Operation Think Tank 2...
Pöhlmann, Markus: Der Panzer und die Mechanisierung des Krieges: Eine deutsche Geschichte 1890 bis 1945 (Zeitalter der Weltkriege)
Citino, Robert M.: The Wehrmacht Retreats: Fighting a Lost War, 1943
Corum, James S.: The Roots of Blitzkrieg. Hans von Seeckt and German Military Reform
Markus Pöhlmann
www.mgfa-potsdam.de/html/zms_m...
Frieser, Karl-Heinz: The Blitzkrieg Legend
Estes, Kenneth W.: Marines Under Armor: The Marine Corps and the Armored Fighting Vehicle, 1916-2000
Thayer, Thomas C.; Daddis, Gregory A.: War Without Fronts - The American Experience in Vietnam
» CREDITS & SPECIAL THX «
Song: Ethan Meixsell - Demilitarized Zone

[@MilitaryHistoryVisualized]

Part 2 of our talk at Tank Fest 2018 with Tanks driving by can be seen on Chieftain's Channel here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/d3iraHl7rN9jbqc

[@kilo-mn5md]

Chieftain, locking flip tabs on the bottom of ammo door track.

[@markyoung950]

HESH rounds would have helped the Allies

[@markyoung950]

Are thouse black blocks that keep appearing on either side of the screen, because people are not wearing enough clothes :)

[@jeffk464]

I remember all the documentaries from 20 years ago. The men that fought in these tanks were interviewed the guys that fought on both sides agreed the Sherman was inferior.

[@samj.s3132]

statistics show that if you say the Sherman is bad, Nicholas will come to your house and challenge you to fisticuffs

[@madcourier6217]

Reminds me of the Angry Joe Sonic Free Riders review... XD

[@catfish552]

As if. You'll just hear a whistling sound and half your house explodes. Two kilometres away, Nicholas' loader throws in the next round.

[@josephsatricleofevillanuev3194]

They say if you say the Sherman is a Deathtrap three times. Nick Moran will show up.

[@ulissedazante5748]

Saying "Sherman is bad" may turn in a significant emotional event pretty soon.

[@dwightehowell8179]

Wrong, he will ignore your existence because life is too short to waste time arguing with ignorant fools.

[@WildBillCox13]

"Never base your beliefs on one man's opinion-even if that man is you." --Marine Sgt Wiggenton, Vietnam, 1968.

[@leoarc1061]

MORE videos like this!!! Its a true informative video! Frankly, most KZbin collaborations are just a popularity contest from beginning to end. This is an example of what the internet was supposed to be: information, discussions, opening the world to both objective and subjective points. Great job.

[@MilitaryHistoryVisualized]

one of the reasons, why I renamed my second channel to Military History for Adults. I like the more sober and analytical approach and less "best", "top" and the unnecessary drama (there is plenty of drama in wars already). Similarly, the podcast is also along those lines: shows.pippa.io/military-history-visualized

[@903lew]

When I joined up (mechanised infantry) I was issued my helmet from supply brand-sparking new. When I turned it in a year later there were bumps and scrapes and all sorts. I wouldn’t go a meter in any kind of AFV without a helmet.

[@lavrentivs9891]

Ironically, berets (and similair) were used in tanks as they were more practical and protective than the hats that common soldiers were issued. No screen to get in the way when using sights, and a lot of filt material to protect your head from all hard surfaces etc. Definatly better than a cap of thin fabric, though only a stepping stone to proper helmets =)

[@aapelikahkonen]

Two stylish gentlemen chatting for an hour about tanks beneath an old flak tower. What's not to like?

[@kokofan50]

It’s too short.

[@northof-62]

That's a massive tower

[@bankerduck4925]

Exactly!

[@jacobeberhardt1649]

The two best people to do the top 5 tanks in Bovington

[@MoonfaceMartin88]

Jacob Eberhardt Yeah, although Lindy's was quite good as well. Squire's was a let down, though. His comedy is much better well scripted.

[@jacobeberhardt1649]

MoonfaceMartin88 Well I don't like Lindy. I quite liked Jim Sullivan. The stunt man. His stories were cool.

[@twirlipofthemists3201]

Bernhard's was waaaaay too short.

[@jacobeberhardt1649]

Twirlip Of The Mists I said that too.

[@armandorodrigues144]

everyone is the best choice to do the top 5 in Bovington, it is afterall a personnal top 5, but yeah their knowledge does help a bit

[@Sedan57Chevy]

I love Moran. He's incredibly knoweldgeable about armor- and not just the base level stuff like what guns or what armor; but he understands the LOGISTICS of a tank, and that's what makes him particularly great (along with his sense of humor!). It's great to see two very intelligent guys talk about this sort of thing. Makes me smile on a very....dare I say German....level.

[@Tuning3434]

+Sedan57Chevy Yeah, I just experienced a significant emotional event myself.

[@philhsueh4860]

I also like that he's an actual tanker himself and talks about things from an actual tanker's perspective and not just a removed historical analysis of the hard data. I appreciate that he tells us his opinion on how comfortable a tank is, how easy it to fight in it, how easy it was to maintain, etc., the kind of stuff that you seldomly read about in most books on tanks.

[@mugwump58]

If tactics were hard, they'd be called logistics

[@amerigo88]

During Operation Desert Shield, an M109 155 mm self-propelled howitzer crew got a lesson on the dangers of sloppy refueling practices. Apparently these 19 year old heavy equipment operators were in the habit of letting some fuel slop around as they would disconnect the fuel line from the filling cap near the power pack (engine) on the vehicle's rear deck. The regular Germany issued JP-8 they were used to was not a problem, but the much lighter, more volatile JP-8 fuel in Saudi Arabia splashed on some hot part of the power pack and caught fire. The 110 degree Fahrenheit ambient air temperature and much lower humidity than in Continental Europe contributed to the danger, no doubt. Before long, everyone had to abandon the vehicle and watch as it and its entire combat load of ammunition exploded in a magnificent display. Now consider that the majority of WWII tanks and other vehicles ran on highly flammable gasoline. Only the Soviets seem to have mostly used diesel fuel. When pondering logistics and its impact on combat operations, I wonder how many more vehicles were lost to accidental or deliberate fuel-related fires for the gasoline-powered armies as opposed to those using a higher percentage of diesel fuel. Also, the diesel engines provided more miles per gallon (kilometers per liter), giving the vehicles additional range between fill ups. As someone said of tankers, they seem to spend most of their time worrying about when and where they will refill their fuel tanks. All that "hurry up and wait" in war is terrible on your fuel mileage. Armored columns and convoys often idle for long stretches, waiting until the next orders send them to the next stop or next battle. Logistics tidbit of the day - the Germans gave the world the ubiquitous five gallon "Jerry can."

[@0nkelD0kt0r]

Samuel Thompson Petrol (or gasoline if you like) was a significant danger in a fighting vehicle, that is a fact. Then again, under the right conditions even Diesel can be pretty dangerous and you have to consider the disadvantages of diesel. The Soviets might have used diesel tanks but all of those tanks were in a sense slowed down by them. A diesel engine has to have significantly stronger engine block because of the higher compression rates. Stronger engine block means more weight, larger engine and longer times to warm up. Also diesel engines back then had a significantly lower power per displacement than petrol engines. This shows very well when you compare the engine used in the Tiger, Tiger B, Jagdtiger, Panther and so forth - the Maybach HL230 - with the engine used in KV-1, KV-2 and IS as well as all their derivatives - the Kharkiv V-2. The V-2 is a 38 litre engine that produces about 600hp in the variants used for heavy tanks, compared to the HL230 that produces up to 700hp (later limited to 600 for reliability reasons) out of 23 litres of displacement. The V-2 is actually lighter than the HL230 because it is built mainly from alluminium (the HL210 of the earlier Tiger 1 was alluminium as well) but it is a lot bulkier which makes the engine bay larger, which makes the tank larger and heavier. Ultimately, diesel is the better fuel for a tank, but I'm not sure it was really better in the 1940s. It really started to be the best option when forced induction was introduced to diesel engines. The british Centurion is widely considered to be one of, if not the best tank of all time - and it used a Rolls Royce Meteor petrol engine.

[@matthayward7889]

Two of my favourite channels in collaboration? This is going to be good!

[@MegaFloyd100]

Nicholas has a more 'Holistic' view of the Sherman tank than his critics.

[@roberthoward9500]

As a whole he might be correct, but I imagine in the field, in a fight, most WW2 tank crews would have preferred to of been in the Panther than the Sherman. The Sherman was successful because of numbers, and to be honest, any tank design the US came up with was going to be successful when it came to numbers because the US manufacturing industry was so large at the time. If the US manufacturing industry was pumping out Panthers instead of Shermans I think the tank crews would have been a lot happier, even if the mechanics might not have been.

[@Cordman1221]

@@roberthoward9500 I really doubt that a crew man would have wanted to be in a Panther. For starters, the panther is actually significantly less spacious and more cramped than a Sherman. A number of panthers didn't even come with radio communications until later iterations so the tank crew had to shout at each other over the roar of a diesel engine. To add to this, the Panther had far worse sighting than the Shermans did, meaning that in a lot of engagements, the Panthers were a liability if engaging multiple targets. On top of that, have you ever done maintenance on a vehicle weighing more than twenty tons? Field maintenance on a vehicle of that weight is extraordinarily difficult, and the Panther was consistently breaking down. Not just their final drives (which the French cited after the war as the worst component), but any number of small bearing that were vanishingly hard to get as the war went on. On top of that, finding a functional recovery vehicle to work on your Panther that's scuttled because a small gear snapped in half in it's drivewheels is going to be a real pain in the ass in the failing logistical system of the late-war Reich. Add to all that that if a shell penetrates the tank (and you live through the experience, which you might not because late war HEAT rounds happen to be really effective now), you now have to escape a tank that's on fire, and full of ammunition for your various weapons, in a cramped, dark, smoky, hot as hell, and now on fire, tank. So the difference being that only morons and people who rely on the documentaries of a dude who worked in a recovery yard for destroyed shermans, would argue that allied crewmen would want to be in a Panther. The Sherman was built around survivability of the crew, and logistical ease of replacement, while the Panther was built around BIG GUN. If I'm a dude who's going into front-line combat in a tank, I want to be in the tank that I'm liable to live to the end of the war in. Dead German tank aces don't get to have opinions that matter, if they died when their German death trap caught on fire and cooked them alive.

[@TheGallantDrake]

@@roberthoward9500 did you even listen to the conversation? The Sherman is way more ergonomic AND survivable. Sure, it may not be as impressive, but I’d like to be comfortable in my tank thanks.

[@Ghatbkk]

@@roberthoward9500 Anyone who has crewed an armored vehicle and broke track is going to prefer the Sherman.

[@isaachousley325]

Ease of maintenance was a factor as well. A power pack replace on german tanks was a multiple day affair whereas a sherman power pack replacement was a couple hour job, and if i rember correctly, the shermans power pack lasted longer than the german designs. American equipment was also made more modular and to within a set of specifications, so it was easier to complete field repairs with replacement parts. This is compared to the german tanks that parts were machined specific to each hull (not design, each individual vehicle hull), so replacement parts required extensive fitment work during installation. Chieftain has a video of a talk he gave that goes more extensive into this.

[@nerdymidgetkid]

'Vienna: the only city the Soviets left voluntarily' made me burst out laughing.

[@KevinShihKevinFresh]

I don't get it?

[@benitomussolini7382]

Shih Town they liberated Austria from the nazis but they gave it to the western allies

[@stalinium4769]

Shih Town right. After the end of the Second World War most of Eastern Europe was under soviet control as they “liberated” those countries from Nazi rule. Stalin started by constructing satellite sates or buffer zones around his motherland by putting communist govermenents in Poland, Cezechoslovakia, Hungary and other countries by assassinating policyical opposition and rigging elections. He vononlarily left Vienna tho to be free. Nevertheless this was one of the causes of the Cold War as the west and Churchill shat their pants on this Soviet Communist expansion. France was also on the verge of being communist but Charles de Swag stopped them somehow. This expansion led to the famous iron curtain speech made by Churchill to ask the yankees to stay and protect the rest of free Europe against the soviets in case they decided to spread even more communism.

[@carloseduardopessotto1736]

If u go to the subway 6 in summer u would want leave too

[@uncletimo6059]

Soviet Union also left Tehran. Persia was invaded by both UK and USSR in 1941-ish.

[@galgenvogel1871]

I can't give enough likes for this collaboration of good researched information...

[@jacobeberhardt1649]

This irishman does a better job of defending american equipment than most of us americans. Ha.

[@Legitpenguins99]

Actually he is American. He's a officer in the Army

[@jacobeberhardt1649]

deadfishbrohoof I'm aware. But he's from Ireland originally.

[@werewolfnar]

Well, since he got bored driving a car for the Irish Army he came to the US to drive Abrams. We've adopted him.

[@jacobeberhardt1649]

werewolfnar I'm proud of our child.

[@Halinspark]

I don't know if he's officially ours, since there are ways for foreigners to join our armed forces, but he's one of our army officers. As far as Im concerned, he belongs to us now.

[@DasPanzermuseum]

Hey guys, soooo we're thinking about throwing a party ... ;)

[@MilitaryHistoryVisualized]

hey, glad to see you here! I actually was thinking about dropping you a mail about the Bergepanzer, since after the talk & mail, I found probably the answer in Doyle's Book on the StuG. Seems the Bergepanzer III & IV were first, but those were converted, thus not show up in Pöhlmann's Production statistics. So, the question of the first Bergepanzer is a bit complicated :)

[@TheChieftainsHatch]

We’re invited? When? Is there beer?

[@panduwidagdo7051]

Oh wow, hello guys, may I join the party? I'll just sit and listen.

[@jmbrosendo]

Can't wait for the "oh snap, I'm drunk and the tank is on fire" series :)

[@Luwinkle]

I would actually pay to see that.

[@SantiFiore]

Nicholas Moran, the type of man that can get a Vienna hater into the goddamn city.

[@Tonixxy]

Lt_Joker capitals are most diverse places.....

[@a.morphous66]

Tonixxy I don’t think it’s diversity. I think the problem is that capitals are usually very populated, so they’re difficult to get around in. Boston, which isn’t even a capital, is almost impossible to drive in. Imagine how bad it must be to get around in a European capital where much of the internal city was built when urban planning was nonexistent and buildings are just wherever they fit.

[@Solinimo]

Nah, it's the diversity :D The wrong kind.

[@walangchahangyelingden8252]

Just populated.

[@justinpyke1756]

This was wonderful!

[@Paciat]

Even better.

[@JHorsti]

As are your cooperations with Bernhard, like your podcasts about the pacific theater. I really enjoy them!

[@justinpyke1756]

Thanks!

[@cannonfodder4376]

I was in heaven when listening to this video. Two of my favorite history youtubers connecting and discussing tanks and history. What a thing to fold laundry to. More of this!!!!

[@WildBillCox13]

From my Junkernauts; " Something worthy of mention is vehicle lifetime and life expectancy. The T34 had a troubled transmission which often burned up after 50 or 60 hours of operations, while German tracks were good for, perhaps, 600km. (360mi) of wear and tear before needing replaced. The Sherman, however, had tracks good for 3000 miles, a major factor, as I was informed anecdotally by an Austrian StuG commander, back in ’76. “You know why you won?” he asked laconically, assuming I’d pay careful attention. “Sir?” I affirmed. “It was your tracks. Ours were good for, maybe, 600 kilometers (keelo-meters), but yours could go three thousand.” Huh! Not HiVAP guns, not gyrostabilizers, not sloped plates, not the Ford GAA 500hp engine? Tracks? Really? For want of a nail . . ."

[@Akm72]

He might have been pulling your leg! :)

[@WildBillCox13]

Good one. The Austrian sense of humor is often much maligned, but correspondingly strongly represented, in the anecdotes of its proponents.

[@SeraphimARcanus]

I think the problem of the transmission of the T-34-76 was solved after a year or so.

[@davidbriggs264]

However, the transmission et al of the T34 might have been the point. The Soviets studied tank combat and found that a T34 was expected to work for around 6 months of wartime conditions, and would have a life expectancy of around 20-30 hours of actual battlefield combat before being destroyed. Hence they designed a tank that was capable of doing just that. And it did.

[@henrihamalainen300]

T-34 engine and transmission were troublesome. Engine usually broke down after 80km but on the other hand tank was in avarage destroyed after 50km at frontlines so it did not matter. Panthers final drive lasted only like 100-150km but as those were usually transported to operational area by train it didn´t matter that much. Sherman was mostly reliable and good for crew to use on operational level even though it might have worse gun and thin tracks that were bad when going to bad terrain and less armor. In war numbers matter more than slight difference in quality.

[@AHappyCub]

"The Camera Man in unconscious" LMAO

[@martinprince7728]

AHappyCub when does he say it

[@mountainhobo]

"when does he say it" -- Sign in the video, at least twice, when the camera suddenly points up for a while.

[@Superadde109]

martin prince 28:00 & 1:04:20

[@torbai]

Wow... My favorite military lecturers are in the same video together... What a nice day.

[@craigkdillon]

I really like Nicholas Moran's way of thinking - very practical, and he checks his facts. I like that.

[@tigercat418]

Craig Dillon he likes brexit

[@Chopstorm.]

tiger cat Your point?

[@tigercat418]

Chopstorm american point of view and against Europe

[@Chopstorm.]

tiger cat Hes Irish. Brexit also passed for a reason. A ton of British wanted out. Last I checked they didnt hold American points of view.

[@sevenproxies4255]

"Vienna - the only city the soviets left voluntarily" XD

[@gings4ever]

I'll say this: Sherman looks like the tank that's squad friendly: "Dude blast that silo! It has a sniper!" K dont worry "That building has an MG! Blast it!" Lol eeaaasyyyy "Taaank! Pz IV! Kill it!" Lemme load CBC or HVAP bro, no prob

[@imtiredtiredtired]

Toastmaster1990 "Watch out, tiger!" "Oh the crews bailed out on their own because its transmission broke" "Plus they have no fuel"

[@JoeWalker98]

@@imtiredtiredtired oh look tiger! Lets move out of its fire and bring up several TD's made for this sort of situation

[@apisitprasan8766]

@@JoeWalker98 or blast it with white phosphorus

[@nerdymidgetkid]

I think the World War II channel crossovers may have peaked. The only way to top this would be for all of you to get together in a large field, split up into two teams and fight to the death using Bren guns and Spandaus to decide once and for all which is best.

[@ceooflovingthehomies9294]

GeneralVikus yes plz! Karl from Inrange will command the team using mg42s and Lindybeige will command the team with Brens!

[@Tuning3434]

British officers don't duck!

[@Calvin_OBlenis]

Christian Spangler Gun Jesus will heal the wounded and dead.

[@ceooflovingthehomies9294]

Calvin O'Blenis And Indien Idel will narrate the proceedings!

[@podemosurss8316]

Christian Spangler You mean Indy Neidell

[@wlewisiii]

I also enjoy air history as well and the myths about the Sherman remind me of how many still accept the myths about the P-40 (obsolete, too slow, unmaneuverable, etc. ) that has only been recently challenged. That plane, much like that tank, is far more than it's reputation would allow for.

[@PROkiller16]

When something earns a reputation it tends to stick with it for it's lifespan, be that a good or reputation.

[@luki97z]

What is this, a crossover episode? Not that I'm complaining, this is a great development, The Chieftain is great.

[@F22onblockland]

The most ambitious crossover event in history.

[@snowstalker36]

They mention this was their 3rd get together. Now I need to find the other 2.

[@davidbriggs264]

Which may not have been filmed :(

[@jeffbangle4710]

Chieftain, please convince Wargaming to add a "zombie defense" game mode to World to Tanks for this Halloween event...

[@danielaramburo7648]

The T34 tanks would crush everything.

[@santaboy4818]

Artillery will no dount enjoy the sight of flying corpses

[@averagejacobinsubscriber]

This was a very enlightening video for me - Nicholas Moran was right about when it comes to the "small things" that people don't think about that have a large impact. I think you have convinced me of the superiority of the Sherman. I used to be a strong defender of the Panzer 4. :)

[@zettle2345]

The Panzer Mk 4, along with the Stug 3, only needed wider tracks to make them the equal of anything else on the battlefield. imo

[@grizwoldphantasia5005]

@@zettle2345 That ignores everything the Chieftain said.

[@snowstalker36]

I have input on the question brought up by the gun trucks, was this knowledge retained by the military, something that person had heard of, or recreating the same smart solution. This is actually a topic we discussed a couple months ago at a local Military History get-together. From what I've seen in my exposure and discussed there, I can pretty much guarantee this wasn't knowledge retained by the military. We have been absolutely terrible at retaining institutional knowledge in the military outside of the current doctrine and possibly what was just phased out. If a problem isn't one we're encountering right now or just recently stopped, it is removed from official knowledge. Which of the other two answers, something they'd heard of or came up on their own, seems a bit mixed. We talked about 3 cases that night. Two were independent recreations of the same solution, and one knowledge passed down outside of the normal information chain. The presenter was the daughter of a WW2 C-47 pilot who worked with the paratroops in the Pacific, and whose unit solved the problems of deploying and resupplying such troops in jungle. And she had read proud reports in military magazines of commanders solving these same problems in Vietnam and now the middle east (more focused on the supply under fire in those cases). In particular was a case where they'd worked out how to bounce barrels and packages into the drop zone when they weren't able to use the doctrinally approved drag pallets. She was reading these and thinking "My dad did this 60 years ago!". I had also just finished a book written by an Air Cav Colonel in Afghanistan, and one of the chapters talked about how they'd run into problems with the normal scout team (2 scout helicopters) not having the firepower to deal with the targets they found, and those targets getting away before gunships got on location. So they started deploying teams of 1 scout and 1 gunship, and now were able to take out these targets right away. These Hunter Killer teams are a recreation of the famous Pink Teams used by Air Cav in Vietnam! Apparently despite the well known effectiveness of that team, it never made it into official doctrine and was forgotten about once enough time that no one with direct exposure to the tactic was left in the unit. Both of those were cases of reinventing the wheel. But my favorite example was one of knowledge passed along outside normal channels and came from my Marine heavy weapons friend. His first tour in Iraq, one of the first replacement deployments, he was the company CO's gunner and using a .50cal on the humvee. His grandpa heard about this sent him a can of Mott's applesauce, and a drawing of where to slide it in under the belt next to the gun to ease feeding. It was a trick his unit had figured out in WW2, the size and curve of this can was a perfect belt guide and you have access to a high energy and filling snack when needed.

[@TheChieftainsHatch]

Huh. Thank you for that.

[@blakekenley1000]

snowstalker36 nothing against the major but I blame the officers corps for these failings. they always seem to think if you're not doing something verbatim from an FM you're automatically wrong.

[@snowstalker36]

Blake Kenley That is the core of the problem I think. If something hasn't been done in a while, or isn't expected to be done again, it gets taken out of the FM. And that assumes it ever made it into the FM in the first place. If it's not in the FM it may as well have never existed for a ton of the profession.

[@blakekenley1000]

snowstalker36 exactly. the germans used to curse us for not sticking to doctrine, and thereforr being incredibly hard to predict. now weve moved away from that in favor of careerism. the fact is, youve gotta look good rather than be good in such an environment.

[@snowstalker36]

Looking at the 3 examples I have above you have 1 case where the info (I'm confident) never made it into a FM, the applesauce can trick. The other two really should have been if they weren't. The methods to airdrop supplies at low level and high speed probably did at least make it into an addendum, 5th Air Force was really good about documenting the solutions they came up with on the fly in WW2. The Pink Teams... I've never actually read any of the Air Cav manuals, but with as much was written about them and their obvious effectiveness I would be shocked if it wasn't in there as a variant option at least. But both of those were then superseded by later doctrine. After the need for a fast low altitude cargo delivery method was shown in combat the drag-chute pallets were developed to allow a more reliable and safer delivery method. With them in the system we had no more need to know how to do the old risky tricks. Which is great, until delivery demand outstrips supply of the pallets. I think the new Air Cav doctrine either assumed that the firepower of 2 scouts together would be sufficient, since they are pretty heavily armed compared to their Vietnam counterparts, or that they would always have a fireteam of gunships close at hand. Whichever it was, either way there's no need to remember the old fix, because now you've got something even better. But when the unit ends up covering three times the area that was originally intended...

[@jameshenderson4876]

Two brilliant channels in one video. Another great and thoughtful discussion. Thank you!

[@JohnRodriguesPhotographer]

Dust signature: It was common practice to drive trucks around behind the lines to give impression of tanks changing positions. I have read about the British 8th Army using this ruse as well as the Africa Corps. Logistics: Many American vehicles that were dragged off the battle field were used to make composite vehicles and put back into the line. Fact: My Dad after the war, went to one of the scrap yards and built his own jeep! He used to chain his jeep to a lamp post in Paris using a tank recovery chain!

[@MilitaryHistoryVisualized]

about the black boxes - bloody civilians ran into the lines of fire... Infographics, Mugs & T-Shirts here - Chieftain liked the Fast & the Führious: www.redbubble.com/people/mhvis/shop

[@colinthompson3345]

Interesting discussion on how information is retained in military circles when people rotate. In business this is known as corporate memory. To take manufacturing- often a problem is seen and resolved, then the same issue or something closely related crops up some time later. The person who dealt with the issue may have left and thus there is a risk that the solution could be more costly due to the additional time and effort required. In effective manufacturing businesses information on problems is compiled in databases then it is cross referenced. Issues seen are regularly evaluated and solutions validated that they are effective. Loss of information through lack of communication and retention is very much a human issue.

[@legoeasycompany]

MHV how do you live with your humor? "Only city the soviets left willing" haha

[@MilitaryHistoryVisualized]

that one is actually not from me, but from a fellow Austrian historian.

[@dylanmilne6683]

Holy heck 1,470 US tankers killed in WWII total. I know that 55k odd aircrew lost their lives in bomber command, it wasn't miles away from 50% of the total unit.

[@maximgun3833]

Well you're up in the sky in a big ass target of a slow moving bomber while these nimble fighters zip around killing you and your buddies. There's no escape there, you just have to take it and pray that you survive.

[@dylanmilne6683]

Maxim Gun you could easily pass off a similar thing about tanks being big slow targets with infantry in every Bush waiting with anti tank weapons.

[@amerigo88]

Considering the Sherman tank had about two inches (51 mm) or less of armor on all but some frontal areas, it's amazing the difference that made on the battlefield of WWII. Keep in mind that everyone was using aiming devices far more crude than modern ones. Tiger tanks with laser rangefinders and individual snipers with scopes linked to tiny ballistic computers would have been serious force multipliers in WWII.

[@dylanmilne6683]

Samuel Thompson not as much a force multiplier as would have been decent reliability and logistics in support - the point about the panther scopes well illustrates what difference was made by overly advanced optics.

[@amerigo88]

Indeed. My thoughts in posting regarding RAF Bomber Command began from thoughts about the somewhat suicidal prospect of flying a winged beer can full of bombs and aviation fuel over darkened German skies with high explosive shells spraying steel shards in thick clouds. They said a pencil could puncture the aluminum skin of a typical WWII bomber. What I was trying to say was that even the somewhat thinly armored Shermans benefited a great deal on the battlefield from the lack of advanced ballistic systems as compared to the modern battlefield. While it was immensely powerful, an 88 mm round from a Tiger was only useful if it could actually hit at least a somewhat vital area of another tank. A panzerfaust could punch through a Sherman's armor with ease, but only if the user had the skill to make the shot. A panzerfaust was a far cry from a modern one man portable anti-armor weapon like the Raytheon Javelin. The company states that it has a 94 percent reliability rate. www.raytheon.com/capabilities/products/javelin/ Given a choice in 1944, I would gladly have preferred a Sherman death trap over an actual B-17, B-24, Lancaster, or Halifax death trap. War is a game of inches and two inches of steel made all the difference in those days. As Operation Desert Storm was gearing up, an ammunition truck (British "lorry") loaded with 180 rounds of 155 mm high explosive shells caught fire next to my battalion's camp in a small wadi northwest of Hafar al Batin, Saudi Arabia. We cleared everyone back in a large radius away from the burning truck and then watched as all 180 rounds detonated in a massive blast. I saw what looked like an inverted, black bowl projecting up and out from the ammo truck. In response, I dropped to the ground and rolled under a cargo truck parked next to me, Kevlar helmet pointed towards the blast, just like they trained us to respond to a nuclear detonation. The sand and grit of the shock wave passed me as I lay there with my eyes squeezed shut for a moment or two. When the grit subsided, I looked towards the ammo truck, but it had been replaced by a mushroom cloud rising into the blue sky. For a few days afterwards, many of the vehicles passing us along Main Supply Route Green (the dirt road that followed the wadi north and south), had flat tires. The steel shards of those 155 mm high explosive rounds were terrifying to behold. They were generally about one foot in length, twisted, jagged steel, that would harm most things struck by one at any appreciable rate of speed. I think of them often when reading about: World War I bombardments and World War II flak zones. Eventually, we got enough of the shards moved off MSR Green and the flat tires subsided in frequency. Even being "in the rear with the gear" can be hazardous to your health in wartime. U.S. Army, VII Corps, 2nd COSCOM, 87th Maintenance Battalion Headquarters

[@johnfrench1239]

Just rewatched and still superb - balanced, informed, watchable - academic credibility combined with humility and good humour. Thank you!

[@MilitaryHistoryVisualized]

thank you!

[@johnfrench1239]

@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized your channel is a real joy and very much appreciated. With an academic background I have enjoyed building my understanding from properly researched 20th century military history for many years. To have someone opening up detailed German sources so objectively has added greatly to my enjoyment and study of the subject. If I ever win the lottery I will repay you for all the hours of interest you have provided, Andrew

[@endlesnights3817]

Even greater crossover event than Infinity War, what's next is Lindybeige, and Bismark going to show up?

[@AHappyCub]

EndlesNights why not all three

[@endlesnights3817]

That's what I meant, they all show up for an even bigger collaboration. The four of them could operate a tank together.

[@AHappyCub]

EndlesNights sorry I didn't read it correctly

[@averagejacobinsubscriber]

Ew, Lindybeige.

[@WeDontTalkAboutJosh]

Lindy's not too bad when he's in the company of real experts, because he asks questions rather than making statements. His main problem is assuming he's understood things by himself. He's actually an asset to a video with knowledgeable people because he ends up asking questions from a semi-layman's perspective and coaxes more information and detail out of people. He's not fundamentally bad, he just has some preconceptions and enjoys expanding from them in the absence of someone who can give a proper answer.

[@mo45327]

All of my favorite KZbinrs are coming together!

[@wiggles877]

Never be hesitant to burst the over-inflated bubble of reputations behind people or machines. Chieftain changed my mind about the Sherman and if other people can't handle the force of his argument then that's their problem not his.

[@Cragified]

This was a wonderful hour of hearing two students of history chatting. Thank you for both doing this and posting it.

[@thomasscaife6867]

*Chieftain AND MHV?* This is the best May the 4th gift ever.

[@petesheppard1709]

This is a great discussion; much fun! Thanks for the collaboration!

[@neireannach]

A German and an Irishman discussing WW2. I bet you made a lot of British people a little nervous.

[@pointlesspublishing5351]

Austrian to bele precice. Or south German, for the more 19th century minded. But clearly Not a prussian/north German. Really...IT is a difference like CSA vs USA north or Ukraine vs russian vs bellorussian.

[@morteforte7033]

I could honestly listen to you both talk for hours, its fun to hear different information on tanks, as well as everything else. Always entertaining!

[@horusfalcon]

Thank you both for doing this! Herr Kast, your channel never gets old. I really hope you two do more together - you work well with each other.

[@Ash007YT]

Thank you very much for the informative video I enjoyed it thoroughly!

[@DeerHunter308]

My first reaction to someone exploding one of my believed myths is: denial, anger, objection then finally after a lengthy period of time grudging acceptance. I am getting better at this through viewing your two channels.

[@RobinRobertsesq]

My wife and I enjoyed Vienna when we visited over a year ago to see the Christmas markets.

[@sneakyfeats2353]

I love it when our content creators collaborate like this. Rock on

[@isaiahcampbell488]

In terms of information being passed on during the war in iraq to units as troops were being cycled out: my economics teacher in high school was in a national guard unit and when the tour was up and the unit was getting cycled out, he and one other person volunteered to stay an additional tour just so that they could pass on the "how not to die" information to the people new to the theater. It really seems to me that the best way to pass on important information like that is to have more experienced troops teach the new ones. The Germans did that in ww1 on the western front. They would have a soldier who was there from the beginning "mentor" ten new soldiers.

[@AkosJaccik]

YAY! However, only an hour...? :\ Oh, well! I'll drink the beer slowly!

[@TheChieftainsHatch]

Batteries ran out. Maybe we’ll try again next time i’m visiting family.

[@AkosJaccik]

Of course it's rather a silly "no amount of good can hurt" than serious criticism - which includes the fact that we'll happy to listen to any further discussion you are willing to share. ...with spare batteries, while we are at the impact of logistics. :) Either way, it was entertaining and educating as usual, thank you!

[@torbai]

Please, please do this.

[@galgenvogel1871]

Please do many more videos of this kind, a really good way to get sober :D

[@kealydan]

That would be great! Nick and Bernard seemed to get on fab!

[@Telecasterland]

This was great. Thanks so much guys for taking the time for this discussion.

[@Hebdomad7]

I could listen to these two chat forever and never get bored. Please do more multi hour video. I will watch them all.

[@PremijerPlenky]

Great video, as always. Could you perhaps do a visualized video on the often maligned Austro-Hungarian Army, the K.u.K of WW1? It is a somewhat forgotten topic, with very little information availlable, and it would be very interesting to see how its divisions, regiments etc. were organized, and what changed during the war, similar to the German WW1 division video. Keep up the good work.

[@PROkiller16]

It might be hard since the third part of the army was Hungarian so sources might be in Hungarian.

[@vidyaorszag]

This was worth it from beginning to end. Chieftain's Zombie Defence Plan anecdote was the perfect way to end.

[@Mugdorna]

Love this casual chat between 2 well read and knowledgeable lads.

[@procinctu1]

Excellent, excellent conversation! Thank you gentlemen.

[@kinasbloody]

Great content, nice to see inteligent live on youtube! Greetings from Brazil!!!

[@emergenttheory690]

Great setting with a flak tower in the background. Thanks for this informative and entertaining presentation.

[@leoarc1061]

This video keeps getting better! Thank you.

[@tommy-er6hh]

About who was in command - the Japanese were more into it - thinking Adm Halsey was a attacker/risk taker so they tried to set up traps/ambushes. Adm Spruance was thought to be careful, so Japanese navy took risks with him.

[@endlesnights3817]

@ about 26:00 This is another reason why the Panzer III is such a great tank. While it doesn't have a roof unity sight like the M4, there is a direct vision ports that the gunner & load can open up on the front of the turrets to see out the front of the turret.

[@torbai]

But the problem of Panzer III is... it's too light. Turning them into sturmgeschutz, which ironically was the most produced "panzerkampfwagen" but used by artillery personnel, is probably the best way of reusing them.

[@V4zz33]

Thank you guys!!!

[@joshuasutherland6692]

What is this, a crossover episode???? Absolutely lovely, 10/10.

[@TotalRookie_LV]

I've been in an armoured vehicle only once - back in 1988 in I was in a summer camp in Poland with other school kids, in one of excursions to nearby city we had an opportunity to get into a BMP. Later in life I had to get on a scaffolding from time to time for measurements, still do. So I confirm - a helmet is *very useful* , especially if some metal bars or pipes are barely above your eye level, those suckers are the worst.

[@stuartdollar9912]

There's a reason people wear hard hats at construction sites. Protecting the brain is important. :)

[@Boric78]

Zombie Defense battle drill - LOL. Shame the Rick's Walking Dead group did not read it - might have prevented the usual dumb moves. Carl get the roller............

[@mcfontaine]

An absolutely brilliant episode. Fantastic collaboration.

[@thomasbernecky2078]

A great talk in a beautiful city, thanks to both of you!

[@Boric78]

This is excellent and full of new explanations.

[@leoarc1061]

indeed!

[@secularnevrosis]

Common misstake is to think about any specific machine as an individual. It's alaways better to think about it as an weapon system in a larger tactical and logistical system.

[@sparkey6746]

Thank you gentlemen, I truly enjoyed listening to that.

[@billassande7628]

Very fun and informative interview. I just started following Nick's channel and love his take on the Sherman. Also being raised on Long Island and having lived in Manhattan he is 100% correct, NYC sucks to live in.

[@jacobeberhardt1649]

Ok I know this is my third comment but i have something. I really enjoyed this video. I like listening to both you and Chieftain ramble. Its a joy.

[@johnwall9577]

@Military History Visualized, great video to watch as I play HOI4. As a Patreon, I hope you do more videos in this conversational style (the scenery is nice too).

[@StuSaville]

If you search KZbin for "The Battle of Binh Ba" there is an interesting video from the Australian War Memorial which mentions the use of canister rounds by Australian Centurion tanks in Vietnam.

[@mikewysko2268]

Enjoyed the conversation. More please!

[@aprilwhitemouse1593]

CHIEFTAIN! *fangirl squeal!* ♥

[@TheChieftainsHatch]

Awwwww... how cute...

[@cisarovnajosefina4525]

I allmost died Laughing when it switched screens and it just said "The camera man is unconscious"

[@NandiCollector]

Two of my favorite channels. MORE videos like this!!!

[@ltjamescoopermason8685]

Nick is today's main internet tank information hub for those of us to busy/idle to find the information and read it. I've enjoyed each program/video he's put out thank you Nick and all those interested in the subject (you tube channel) thanks for sharing.

[@breembo]

you two, TIK and lindebeige are by far the best historical researchers I have seen when it comes to ww2 media. this is why I gave up on things like the history channel over a decade ago. in fact I used to argue the benefits of the sherman on forums for years, and it wasnt until manic moran came along with his presentation that I began to see a shift in popular circles from the old history channel germanophiles to actually lookiny at hard details.

[@SeraphimARcanus]

I think that lindebeige is good with medieval or Napoleonic history but it is not so good when talking about world wars.

[@dmcc5110]

Lindybeige isn't particularly good with his research but i still just find he's really interesting to listen too because (probably inaccurate) anecdotes and his conjecture

[@Jamie-kg8ig]

Nah don't let Lindybeige touch the Napoleonic Wars. There's a decent chance he goes full Francophobe immediately and does something like comparing Napoleon to Hitler.

[@PROkiller16]

Lindybeige is great for ancedotal evidence and the such, you need to take what he says with a grain of salt because he does wear his bias' on the sleeve.

[@therealkillerb7643]

U.S. army confirms it trains for Zombie apocalypse! What else is the U.S. government hiding from us! Film at 11! ;-)

[@SnowmanTF2]

Not exactly hidden, but the Center for Disease Control has had information for zombie preparedness for years. blogs.cdc.gov/publichealthmatters/2011/05/preparedness-101-zombie-apocalypse/ www.cdc.gov/phpr/zombie/index.htm

[@wrongway1100]

The Real Killer B And my government wonders how to fix the deficit.

[@FollowedGaming]

Zombie Wizards I shit you not

[@philhsueh4860]

It may sound silly but training for a hypothetical zombie apocalypse could be a very valuable training tool as long as it's taken seriously and given a set of ground rules to go by. It's basically planning for a shtf fan scenario and with a bit of modification could be used for planning any number of natural along with man made ones like mass rioting. The only difference between planning for a zombie apocalypse and something like a hurricane is that the zombie apocalypse theme makes the planning and training a bit more fun.

[@shrike45]

I smell Brietbart...

[@andrewp8284]

This is just awesome, two of my favorite military/WWII historians talking! I think both these guys do a great job of getting people to stop and think about the "hidden figures" rather than just the "cool" stuff like gun caliber and armor. Reminds me of War and Peace by Tolstoy (which of course is a novel I know), where he sort of asks "but what about everyone else besides Napoleon, who everyone focuses on?"

[@masonke1]

Great video. Often unscripted conversations like these highlight the little bits and pieces that otherwise remain hidden. Excellent work, please keep it up!

[@stephenwarhurst6615]

I heard that Rommel was impress by the Sherman not by it's armor or Fire power but by it's serviceability and reliability

[@Masterhitman935]

Stephen Warhurst source? Just curious.

[@cobalt2361]

You guys should all gather together! MHV, Chieftain, Lindybeige and Bismarck, and have a nice big talk about random war stuff :D

[@hallamhal]

Oh wow, I have a lot of time for both of you - this video is great, really insightful!

[@suokkos]

A bit after 30 minutes: "We might know thing better in small corner of youtube". This was my first video watching you two. But I already knew that you know thinks much better than I do before that point. That was one of reasons why I kept listening to the whole video. :) Thanks for sharing your knowledge. See you later. I'm off to Chieftain's channel to here the part two.

[@podemosurss8316]

The Soviets had the Sherman on high steem, they though it was as good as their T-34s, which it's to say a lot. I mean, the Soviet complained about most American lend-lease material they received.

[@Paciat]

Soviets also believed that 2pdr Valentine were better than Matilda II. Matilda didnt work well in mud and frost, less reliable, needed more maintenance. But Valentines are considered crap while Matilda is "the queen of the battlefield".

[@podemosurss8316]

Matilda II were considered well armoured but lacking firepower (they though of the Matilda II as a "discount KV-1"), which led to the Soviets modifying its turret in order to fit a 76mm F-32 gun, which was called "Matilda IV" version. Valentines were good as a light tank though the first received by the Soviets were mainly used as a training tank.

[@maximgun3833]

It also helped that it was helluva lot more comfortable to ride in

[@vasopel]

"the Soviet complained about most American lend-lease material they received" not true....

[@podemosurss8316]

vaso opel Soviet opinion on US tanks: Stuart: Too small and poorly armed. M3 Lee: Literally nicknamed "grave for seven brothers" by the Soviet tankers. Complainings about the poor design and lack of reliability even compared to BT-7m. Sherman: It's Ok. Not the best tank ever but it's as good as our T-34. The Soviets did like American non-weapon equipment like the Jeeps (in fact they made a copied version of the Jeep called GAZ scout car). On tanks, that was their opinion. On artillery and small arms they received too little to really form an opinion.

[@_datapoint]

“Camera man is unconscious”. Lol! I thought this was an excellent conversation! You Tube has been referring his channel to me for sometime. I think I’ll finally give it a try.

[@TheChieftainsHatch]

I won’t bite....

[@_datapoint]

So you say. ;-)

[@andrewcoley6029]

Brilliant! Very informative and extremely entertaining! Well done both of you.

[@adamskinner5868]

Now that was fun, really enjoyed the conversation, interesting, informative, lots of references to follow up on, things I'd never considered or knew about, made me laugh and I'm still smiling so thanks guys, that was great.

[@kingofhogwarts9499]

Two of my favourite youtube-channels coming together, if you invite Ian from forgotten weapons and Indy Neidell from The Great War youll have all four or them :-)

[@DuckSwagington]

Step aside Marvel, *This* is the most ambitious crossover.

[@Shhtteeve]

This was a fantastic episode, my favorite theory buff and my favorite practicality buff having a rambling chat, How can you go wrong! Keep up the great work both of you!

[@anulovlos]

I could listen to you two talk about tanks all day.

[@javiercontreras2562]

What is the thing the Chieftan mentioned earlier for American Tanker casualty rates? Where do I find it?

[@TheChieftainsHatch]

www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/ref/Casualties/

[@ricardodavidson3813]

You can produce diesel from coal using the Fischer-Tropsch method, same as produces lubricating oils. The other method, direct coal liquefaction, produces high grade petrol type fuels. Both were in use in Germany during WW2, my guess is that they needed all the diesel they could produce for their U-boat fleet, E-boats etc. and it simplifies logistics to have an army run on the same fuel. One reason why the multi-fuel tank engine was an attractive concept. Flawed engineering however, as if it works with everything chances are it will not work well with anything. In practical terms it is silly to deny high-power applications like tanks and lorries the efficiency of the diesel engine just because jeeps and motorcycles have to have petrol.

[@Paul-ie1xp]

This was an absolute pleasure to watch and listen too...

[@neil03152]

Brilliant video. Thankyou to you both for that most informative discussion. I was captured right by the video away in any case as we have sat where you filmed this, so it was just like being back in Vienna for me. That Flak Tower top shot by the unconcious cameraman still reminds me of Micky Mouse for some unknown reason - can't think why!