THE MOTHERLODE of Cathay Lore - The Monkey King, Dragons, & Jade Blooded - Total War Warhammer 3

The Motherlode of Cathay Lore has just been revealed for Total War Warhammer 3, so let's discuss The Monkey King, the origins and whereabouts of each Cathayan Dragon, the Jade Blooded Vampires, Nagas of Khuresh, and how all these reveals will play into the Warhammer 3 campaign.
Thanks to Loremaster of Sotek and The Great Book of Grudges for their illuminating interview with Andy Hall about Cathay -
/ @loremasterofsotek
/ @thegreatbookofgrudges

[@milkandcookiesTW]

Tons of new, interesting information about the location of the Dragons and other elements of Cathayan culture to discuss. Thanks to Loremaster of Sotek and The Great Book of Grudges for their illuminating interview with Andy Hall about Cathay - kzbin.info/door/H4nPsl2ctS365aEfFBwxbg kzbin.info/door/NxHDiW6i68RRzt4GQsbigQ

[@alexshaw4182]

It was crazy, loved the fact he was quite shy about talking Nippon. Also happy to hear about Tigerman tribe *They're Great!*

[@chosenofkhorne2951]

I just fear that we are going to get to much dragons like 5 dragons

[@GlamdringandOrcrist]

Hey Indy could you drop the spellings for the names of the dragons?

[@lanceconte2231]

Sooooo interesting!! Thank you very much for summarising the interview and give us all the elements we needed to know. Always a great pleasure to listen to you! You are my Warhammer (game and lore) reference!

[@milkandcookiesTW]

@@GlamdringandOrcrist I cannot unfortunately because I dont know them. Just basing off what Andy Hall has said

[@ahumpierrogue137]

Tigermen having "villages" and not feces covered stones to gather around implies to me at least that they are a bit more civilized than their western Beastmen counterparts(if indeed they are related to the typical Beastmen at all). Not necessarily non chaotic, but at least I expect them to be a bit more civilized and advanced if they are.

[@mycure0498]

Felines have standards

[@justaguy653]

@@mycure0498 made me laugh.

[@Aconspiracyofravens1]

well, beastmen are varied to say the least

[@lachlanmckinnie1406]

Could be partially Chaos corrupted but not subservient to Chaos; kind of like how griffons likely originated by Chaos but were stable enough to be reliable and not spread corruption themselves.

[@trevordavis6830]

I thought it was already stated in lore that the Beastmen in Ind are order based.

[@Tommy9834]

So if we are comparing the children of the Dragon Emperor to the Primarchs of 40k, and we call their dad, the Emperor, as Big E, can we them refer the Dragon Emperor as "Big D"?

[@odin1185]

No he is Asian.

[@tacticalprofessor2847]

@@odin1185 U sir are a man of culture 🎩

[@mycure0498]

@@odin1185 I feel personally attacked

[@Aconspiracyofravens1]

@@tacticalprofessor2847 no I believe the term is “racist joke”

[@dariusgunter5344]

@@Aconspiracyofravens1 a joke about stereotypes is funny because stereotypes are stupid. The moment you assert their truth outside of jokes it becomes racist.

[@Hubba404]

Season 3 of "Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid" sure looks dope!

[@mycure0498]

no

[@timebrain3188]

@@mycure0498 Yes

[@mycure0498]

@@timebrain3188 *No*

[@thereptile9467]

@@mycure0498 Non't.

[@cxfxcdude]

Dear gods yes

[@Ben-dx2xd]

I was really hoping jade-blooded vampires were canon. Awesome! Also cool to see that Ind/Khuresh could be a possibility in the later DLC.

[@robertabblebaum7813]

I wonder if they are also controlling the new Jade Dragon. Or if it was made a vampire at some point. The green color association and the whole, both of these groups are great at administration... Would be really interesting to see that explored, where basically most of Cathay is administered by a vampire bureaucracy.

[@MrSafior]

@@robertabblebaum7813 It would be better if they were their own faction.

[@mycure0498]

@@robertabblebaum7813 Cathay administered by a vampire bureaucracy? Damn, I didn’t think Congress would be referenced in Warhammer.

[@Wvk5zc]

yea.. they should be on undead factions, not Cathay

[@Wvk5zc]

@@robertabblebaum7813 ridiculously awful. That will never happen

[@mrgabest]

Jade Dragon is totes Guilliman. It's always the boring one that does all the work.

[@thecandlemaker1329]

I wonder if he's romantically involved with Alarielle.

[@Phantom-38]

Iron Dragon was my favorite to begin with and the idea he fraternises with humans because it pisses the other dragons off endears him even more

[@navilluscire2567]

Zhou Ming: Hey siblings! Y'all should try drinking with the humans sometime, they SURE know how to party, unlike you sulking serpents! Also...some of their women can be quite...alluring too, especially the shorter, plumper ones! (though I certainly love tall muscular ones as well!) Dragon siblings: **Visible disgust, full of loathing for their promiscuous brother**

[@kanseiyamazaru435]

Monkey King, Monkey Warriors, Tigermen, and Nagas - YES PLEASE!

[@anon_234]

And here I was thinking that the dragon emperor created Cathay as a means to guard him while he sleeps. Dragons sleep longer each cycle as they age, and he's ancient beyond imagination. My original theory was that he united the human tribes to guard his body being the true reason behind putting in the effort to unify and create the Great Bastion, but now it seems that he needed them to guard him as the imperial couple put some spell in motion to close the polar portals.

[@TsunamiWombat]

This is my guess as well. Close the polar portals, essentially a reset.

[@spacesurgeon253]

'There are 4 missing primarchs as well, at the moment we only have the location of one of them' I had to do a double-take because for a second I thought 'Ah yes Lion el Johnson is in Cathay'

[@khai96x]

I'm wondering: Would there be a one-eyed red dragon that does Nothing Wrong™ to the Dragon Emperor's plan?

[@spacesurgeon253]

@@khai96x Hey, the dragon was just trying to help, if the wolf dragon wasn't dumb we wouldn't be in this mess

[@blackgobbogaming4236]

@@spacesurgeon253 Woah woah the wolf dragon was not at fault. The Arch-traitor dragon manipulated him into going after him.

[@TheLokiel]

I’m willing to bet that the Divine Sun of Nippon or at least the founder of his line is one of the missing children of the dragon emperor.

[@mycure0498]

That actually would be really cool, perhaps that missing son betrayed the emperor and led a rebellion against his father and lost after a long civil war. After his defeat, he fled to Nippon where he rules as the god emperor, (which is in line with Japanese history and could also be a way for the son to spite his father) plotting his revenge and inevitable ascension to the Emperor of Cathay.

[@gudboah4688]

That would be sick. The reason why he may be “forgotten” is that he sought independence from his mother and father and sought to fulfill his own dynasty. His father was so enraged by his betrayal that he had all records of him expunged from history.

[@namkl4128]

but the Nippon's Emperor is just a figure head, right? I doubt a Dragon with such ambition will accept to play the 2nd fiddle for some mere mortal.

[@anhkhoanguyen8562]

@@namkl4128 it really depends on how GW will handle Nippon's lore. In Japan history, the Emperor is indeed figurehead most of the time. But in 19th century and 20th century, after the Meiji Restoration, the Shogun was overthrown and the Emperor held control of the country. GW can just make the Dragon being absent most of the time due to him being injured, want to be treated like God, etc... and only becomes active recently to prepare for an invasion toward Cathay.

[@KVP424]

@@namkl4128 Could be fun to create some sort of Emperor vs Shogun dynamic like in our world. Centralization under the emperor or more decentralize realm under nobles.

[@DaThingOnTheDoorstep]

You know, I feel like we should've also had a similar dump for the retconned Kislev lore. Just to establish whether or not certain elements are still canon, like the Ungol/Gospodar split, the hags, and especially the whole new orthodoxy angle to Ursun worship. All this does sound pretty cool though.

[@cxfxcdude]

Im hoping we get one soon and the keep the Baba Yaga/Hag stuff for Dlc’s

[@sbc759]

I really hope CA adds monkey men, I’ve always wanted more factions that are animal/creature based like the lizard men and the beast men. Thanks for the video, I would have never known any of this if it weren’t for you. Love your content and keep up the good work!

[@Neolazaro91]

Mmmm... Monkey

[@owo5869]

Whoy U Safu me

[@justaguy653]

Same bro.

[@sushanalone]

I hope they add a Tiger-Beastmen skin /faction to Beastmen when they release Ind.

[@sushanalone]

Monkey men are more like Indian history passed on through Buddhism to the east, same with Naga, so might show up with the Ind expac.

[@ismeal231]

I was not expecting Ind or Kuresh being even mentioned, but that gives me hope for more previously unexpanded factions. Now what I sincerely hope to see, though, at this point am completely skeptical, is to see a Nippon faction be mentioned. CA has already given us Shogun Total War, now let's see that translated into a faction in Total War.

[@anon_234]

Andy did mention the eastern Dragon has to deal with a human nation in the East, but refused to name it. That's obviously Nippon, but my guess is GW is changing the name for some reason, which is why he couldn't talk more about it.

[@ericosborne4122]

@@anon_234 "For some reason"

[@anhkhoanguyen8562]

tbh, if they do make the other dragons siblings to the game, Ind/Khuresh and Nippon need to be implemented. The fire dragon in the south and the dragon on the East will literally stay in the corner of the map if they are added to the game, and without some enemies to fight except for other Cathay, their campaign will get boring, fast. Like the East Dragon will only have some random Dark Elf to fight, and the South Dragon and Monkey King can only fight each other and that's it.

[@ericosborne4122]

@@anhkhoanguyen8562 There will also be vampires and skaven spread throught cathay, most likely

[@powerist209]

Well, Nippon lore was tongue in cheek pun-based humor. Like Orange Simca (a car) and Vimtoism (Vimto energy drink) wouldn’t fit in with more “serious” later editions.

[@amvhate]

I think I might have idea what the dragon emperor is doing . . . . . . . . . The dragon emperor is trying to move the warhammer world back to the colder place where the world once was This plan might wipe all other races in the world besides dragons

[@kubakaczmarek2399]

that would be amazing

[@milkandcookiesTW]

interesting!

[@amvhate]

@@milkandcookiesTW I know I'm not the only one who came to that conclusion from the andy interview. Andy did give a lot of hints thought out the interview. What would be the biggest faq u to the old one's. Doing the same thing to them to what they did to the dragons. This plan also may not defeat chaos, but weaken them enough they won't have anyone worship them

[@yazack9963]

My theory is that the Dragon Emperor plan is to return the world to back to what is was before the Old ones came. This will no doubt be bad for eveyone.

[@joseonwalking8666]

Strange that he makes so many efforts to basically make it prosperous for minor races.

[@giagarex]

*angry dinosaur noises*

[@justaguy653]

Everyone…. Except the lizardmen. BRING BACK LIZARD GLORY

[@freakyzoid3565]

I mean, could also be better. I would love to see an pre-old ones old world

[@muhammadedwards8425]

Define everyone because it would definitely be better for the dragons and a instant loss for Chaos

[@warhammerchaosgod]

I haven't been this excited for Warhammer (Lore) in a looooong time. Everything's just there, and Cathay is shaping up to be simply fantastic in my eyes. I wish Kislev got the same treatment...

[@redwings13400]

I'm wondering what the heck Slannesh and Nurgle are doing right now. Kislev seems to have its hands full with Khorne, and Cathay, at least Miao Ying's provinces, are dealing with a full on Tzeentch invasion, but we've seen nothing so far from the other two chaos gods. As insane as dragons and polar bears are, I'm worried we're running out of mortal factions to stop chaos as soon as the other two gods make a move.

[@drafezard7315]

Doing what Chaos does best I imagine, fighting each other/itself. After all, Chaos is the main force that keeps Chaos in check.

[@abelsoo5465]

Nurgle might assist Clan Pestilence to eradicate Lizardmen from Lustria. Slaanesh might assist the Dark Elves to capture Ulthuan. The Old World nations of Kislev, the Empire and Bretonnia will be fighting Khorne , Norsca, Archaon's forces and occasional Vampire nuisance. Wood Elves will fight Beastmen as usual. Dawi and Greenskins will fight like they had been for ages. Tomb King Settra will fight Nagash. Cathay will be busy dealing with Tzeentch. Ogre Kingdoms and most Skaven clans are the wild cards. If I am one of the rulers of the Order-aligned factions, I will attempt to forge a grand alliance to combat chaos. TW:WH 3 will shape up to be a world war .

[@jayros4269]

Meanwhile all we know about Kislev is that they ride bears.

[@HiddenEvilStudios]

Well, yeah. There's no slavic audience with massive amounts of inflated wealth thay Gee-Dubbs needs to fellate to stay in their good graces.

[@ethanbailey5636]

I remember that bit about the typhoons destroying the fleet! It’s from some older lore I think, but basically the Cathayans got a bit too close for comfort for the Slann, so they sabotaged the voyage from the get go by summoning up titanic storms.

[@mycure0498]

Like how the Mongolians got typhooned when invading Japan, twice.

[@carl-philipdemeyere4007]

If I remember the story right: the Slann of the Southern Jungles who are cut off from those in Lustria foresaw the Cathayans expedition/invasion and threw a Typhoon at them. When the Cathayans tried to leave or go back, the Slann of Lustria - reading from the same tablets of prophecy left behind by the Old Ones - predicted the same expedition (only a bit later) and threw another Typhoon at them as a double whammy.

[@latlatko]

@@carl-philipdemeyere4007 lol, but isn't current/recent lore that there are no slann in the southlands? or am i misremembering.

[@ethanbailey5636]

@@latlatko No there are. It’s just that they’re largely cut off from the ones in Lustria. There aren’t any Slann in the Dragon Isles.

[@fwg1994]

The staging ground Cathay was intending to use to take control of the spice trade was actually a Lizardman controlled part of the Southlands, so the local Slann hit them with a typhoon. The ships that survived ended up landing on the west coast of Lustria. Believing they reached their destination, the remnants began their invasion plan, but were ambushed captured by the local Lizardmen. All of them were sacrificed to Sotek except the admiral leading the expedition, as Skinks mistook the emblem of the Dragon Emperor tattooed on the admiral's back as an image of Sotek, and wanted to present him to the Slann. The admiral, however, escaped and managed to make it to the coast, wherein he was able to signal to Cathayan spice traders passing by who brought him home, becoming the sole survivor of the expedition.

[@elidurden2156]

The Sea Dragon is rumoured to be in Lustria. Teclis: aw shit here we go again.

[@TwistedAlphonso1]

Not in Lustria, she launched a failed invasion. Dont spread silly rumors.

[@ShadowWalker-ng1it]

@@TwistedAlphonso1 Indy litteraly said that in the video just missing the quotation marks. Also this is the last thing Lustria needs, but I guess for CA so long as there is a generic faction in Lustria there is enough space for more LL

[@mycure0498]

@@ShadowWalker-ng1it Lustria is a giant knife fight for oxygen at this point

[@justaguy653]

😂😂

[@Evan-qn2cj]

I get the feeling they’re kind of like the primarchs. Not in power level obviously, but in the sense that they’re separate from the people they rule. Superior even

[@alexsitaras6508]

@melanin farmer I think major kill made a video about it. I thought it was a fun watch.

[@TheHandofDestiny]

@melanin farmer A legion of space marines would probably lose

[@johnpannebaker5757]

I love the fact that the Monkey King actually seems to be truly about chaos, even more so then Chaos are.

[@christophercolasurdo919]

So, why did we get nothing like this for Kislev? Literally who is Kostaltyn? He’s the head of the Orthodoxy…. And?

[@milkandcookiesTW]

a just question, my liege!

[@Count.Saruman]

@@milkandcookiesTW Be silent. I have not passed through the Chinese Market to bandy crooked words with a witless Kislevite.

[@TheAtlasReview]

I love that Andy basically just confirmed everything people wanted.

[@scholaepalatinae4988]

Somehow, those screenshots of Cathay make me wanna go back and rewatch the movie Hero(2002) by Zhang Yimou. Best wuxia film in form of art film, period. That film is 10x better if you understand ancient China as well.

[@frozenlimemix]

I love that group of films that were released around that time and brought to the west, but "Hero" is by far my favourite of them all.

[@michaelkaegi4832]

amazing movie

[@hazzboi1048]

More lore means more dlc characters means more mechanics mean more warhammer to play

[@hangebza6625]

Something of this deep should have come shortly after the Cathay trakler dropped. But I am glad we finally got something more indepth

[@davidwhitfield6025]

You know I have the feeling that Cathay will become a rival for the Empire and the High Elves as the most popular factions in Warhammer. With all due respect to Kislev (and for me Vlad von Carstein) I think Cathay is going to attract a huge number of players seduced by the rich lore and who doesn't want to be Emperor/Empress of the all Cathay and Scourge of Chaos. I can see a lot of interest in Cathay specific DLC -Fire Dragon vs Monkey King as mentioned being high on the list.

[@jameschristophercirujano6650]

Basically if Ind and Cathay were to fight, its basically Khajit vs the Akaviri.

[@isaacpotter3454]

I want them to add in the jade dragon as a lord with his own magic spells that summon jade from the earth or that he fires jade crystals out of himself and the more kills he gets the more powerful his magic

[@sandpirate1662]

I really enjoyed their stream and all the lore bits in it. Was super cool to see older lore bits get nods!

[@redsalamander9999]

I remember reading waaaaaaay back in the day about speculation of the identity of the dragon emperor, and there was one idea that suggested the dragon emperor was actually a vampire who fled East during the fall of Lamia and established himself as ruler of Cathay. Obviously it's not the case now, but I am interested to see what plans the jade vampires have for the story. Vampires tend to be more proactive villains in Warhammer, so I don't think the Cathayan vampires are going to be sitting idly by while the campaign goes on...

[@In_Purple_Clad]

Just realised something we might see with the Great Bastion... might lead to a neat mechanic in the game or at least a bit of world building. Preface: The Writers of Warhammer Fantasy have always taken ideas & concepts from real-world History/ Myth, exaggerated them, and made a Gnarly, Grimdark Fantasy spin on it. Idea: It is rumoured that the real-world Great Wall of China was built upon the bones of Countless Thousands of Workers who built it over the centuries. (Heavy emphasis on the 'rumoured' part. From what I can tell from my research, the Rumours might've been started by the Han Dynasty, in order to discredit the Qin dynasty who built the Wall. I'll be honest I don't know enough about the topic to say if there actually are real skeletons buried within the Great Wall itself) What I do know is Andy Hall's just confirmed that Jade Vampires exist in the Warhammer World... ... ... So, If the writers do decide to play up on the whole "bodies in the Great Wall" idea/ if they do wanna add a Gnarly Grimdark twist to the Great Bastion of Cathay... then they better release a playable Jade Vampire Faction as well so I can spam the 'Raise Dead' button while I'm there :D. Gimmie my Army of Angy Skelly Worker boyz!!! :)P :D

[@commissar6860]

I'm very surprised you glossed over the massive hint for Nippon becoming playable. Future vid Indy?

[@DaThingOnTheDoorstep]

inb4 it's all just Bretonnians.

[@milkandcookiesTW]

I wouldnt call anything from his discussion massive when it comes to Nippon. I wouldnt even call the Nagas name drop "massive", and he actually talked about them lol

[@AzureShadow88]

Its more of a Lore talk, both for the new Old World line and Total War. By right of being neighbor of one of the new factions they just had to be acknowledged just like the Nagas

[@commissar6860]

@@milkandcookiesTW I was referring to his refusal to name Nippon being indicative of someone being under NDA. When he no problems naming anything else in the region. Happy to say Ind. Happy to say Khuresh. But not Nippon?

[@djinnglebells241]

FYI there is a fan project to flesh out the Hinterlands of Khuresh. They have a world anvil page, and ItalianSpartacus has made some videos covering them.

[@milkandcookiesTW]

yep ive seen it, cool stuff!

[@TheAtlasReview]

Considering that the Jade Dragon is described as a dull diplomat, it would be cool if he was something of a master of intrigue. Perhaps he wages a secret war against Tzeentch cults, or perhaps he leads them.

[@jamescpalmer]

Ok now i'm getting excited for cathay, knew very little about the lore but this stuff is a great new impact on the power in the east for me.

[@andrewnewell1142]

The Imperial Couple’s project is totally going to be a nationwide alchemical spell, like Fullmetal Alchemist. Why else would you tend to such a massive flock?

[@thegethconsensus393]

I doubt it. They seem to have at least some interest in the wellbeing of their people. Also, I would be sorely disappointed if it turned out they were evil all along.

[@korinntv2175]

LoremasterOfSotek and Great Book of Grudges podcast Lorebeards is a gift to us all. That interview was awesome.

[@Muramasa1794]

What’s surprising also is it’s confirmed that monkeymen are the second largest population in Cathay after humans. And the Onyx Crowmen acts as Jiniywei (Imperial agents) for the Moon Empress to eradicate Tzeentch cults

[@blainemedina4326]

Nice to see a shout out to The Great Book of Grudes

[@christopherhu7189]

In journey to the west, Monkee went west and ultimately became a buddha. Monkee king controls Ind as their god emperor?

[@JackRabbit002]

Didn't Sun Wu Kong (hope that's spelt correctly) in the original story challenge the Gods and sought immortality though!? You could make that fit pretty easily into the Warhammer World with some tweaking!

[@christopherhu7189]

@@JackRabbit002 yeah and it’s already referenced in old lore and new lore as well. Monkey king in current warhammer ressbles Great Sage Equalling Heaven than Victorious fighting buddha

[@syrusalder7795]

I like to imagine that Boris Chadbringer is one of the missing dragons

[@Ness_12]

I really liked this lore, as you said, it is sufficent amount to get us engaged and for us to look for more Thanks

[@JClif]

So excited!!! Thanks for the info.

[@thecandlemaker1329]

In traditional Chinese beliefs, the Emperor was indeed symbolised by the dragon, but the Empress was symbolised by the Fenghuang (translated sometimes as the Chinese Phoenix; this causes Westerners to confuse it with the Vermillion Bird of the South, which is also translated as the Chinese Phoenix, but in fact is not related to the Fenghuang).

[@roland228]

If diplomacy lines between specific characters are introduced to fix infamous lines like Empire factions saying that Karl Franz is displeased with the decisions of Karl Franz, I would love if Imrik has specific lines towards the Cathayan Legendary Lords which are far more respectful than he usually is. Maybe when liasoning with Miao Ying, he even flirts with her. If Imrik has a bad relationship with Miao Ying, she says she'll send back his love letters as piles of ashes. The currently unnamed 5th Dragon should be the one that gets Life Magic instead of Miao Ying. Hell, Life magic is also called Jade Magic. If the Monkey King becomes a Legendary Lord, he should have access to some Beastmen units just like how Arkhan the Black has access to some Vampire Counts units.

[@ZackStormYT]

this.i love all of this.imagine they make diplomacy so advanced you can even have political marriages that could units faction.for example your playing as Imrik and you successfully woo and wed Miao Ying your faction becomes a part of Cathay since your a smaller faction with the player now having access to Cathay and elven roster with both legendary lords.it won't hapen but holy heck I wish it could.the power couples that could come out of it...

[@chaosshade1804]

Nice I’m now going to pre order it you have helped me with the decision love your content please keep it up bro 😎👍👍👍⭐️

[@gregoryshinn9805]

Thanks for the video

[@xuanquang9815]

I would like to think that the Dragon emperor is repairing a grand spell that would end the spread of Chaos once and for all. effectively cut off the connection of the Chaos gods to the Old world all together

[@ogge9296]

So now it's established for some time that there's a rivalry between Kislev and Khorne as well as Cathay and Tzeentch. What do you guys think Nurgle and Slaanesh will do in TWW3? One of them might be attacking the ogres.

[@vFallen6AngeLv]

Slaanesh should attack the ogres because they are ugly : P

[@namkl4128]

they attack each other..

[@emprahsfinest7092]

I think the Dragon Emperor's project is he's trying to close the Chaos portals in the poles and that will basically be the main campaign plot/objective for Cathay, Kislev and the Chaos factions, to either stop or help it.

[@HackerArmy03]

The dragon emperor is basically the emperor of mankind (40k) pre-heresy as he secluded himself working on a secret project as well lol

[@mysorepak4296]

Bring on the tiger beastmen of Ind!!!!!!!

[@TwistedAlphonso1]

They're not beastmen.

[@nailer40]

@@TwistedAlphonso1 nothin gets by u eh bud

[@MrSafior]

@@TwistedAlphonso1 They were cleary beast-men in Ind lore.

[@GlamdringandOrcrist]

Tons of this information was dope Probably the most interesting thing for me is the relationship between Li Dao & The Monkey King, as it doesn’t seem to be wholly antagonistic, and sometimes even ends up in cooperation. In regards to the information on how the dragons feel about their subjects and what the plan of the rulers are, I heavily doubt it’s going to be anything malicious. It doesn’t make much sense to put so much time and effort into establishing a nation of people and defending it so vigorously if you’re planning on discarding it, especially when we have heard that they genuinely care about the nation itself. I’d wager the plan is more so about trying to find a way to beat back chaos in some fashion. As for Tigermen, I think they’re more then likely Ind only units. Don’t think Cathay have access to them.

[@MrSafior]

They should make the monkey king his ox faction of Eastern beast-men. With some unit being present in other factions, like the Troll and Harpys are.

[@GlamdringandOrcrist]

@@MrSafior I don’t think that should be the case. Monkey Warriors actively working with humans tells me they aren’t Chaos creatures nor are they even antagonistic towards men. The Monkey King is more a trickster then a ruler of beasts, and should lean towards neutral then evil. I expect him to be more in-line with Cathay then many others think, and believe he should.

[@MrSafior]

@@GlamdringandOrcrist Hé can be a beast-men and not being submissive to Chaos, that would be a good Chang of taste.

[@user-ph4kk8bh1y]

@@MrSafior The Monkey King is not a beastman. GW has already explained that. Beastman is a man turned into a beast. The Monkey King is a beast that has gained wisdom.

[@MrSafior]

@@user-ph4kk8bh1y When they said that?

[@ghostranger5890]

I hope with all of the lore we're getting, we get to see them in Total War Warhammer 3. I'd definitely love to see the Monkey King and monkey men, tigermen, the naga of kuresh, the jade blooded vampires, just everything. I honestly wouldn't mind if they just triple stacked this game with DLC. To fill up the world with Ind and Nippon and Khuresh would be simply amazing. Seeing all of this new lore is making me absolutely hyped!

[@GrayFolxy]

My Bird Boy tzeench has a real impact here nice ! In WH40k i was very fond of Ahriman & Thousands Sons , well I m gonna be at home so nice !

[@lachlanmckinnie1406]

I could see Ind being a border race. Maybe not with their own unique units, but with enough crossover units with the Monkey King and Cathay to at least give them a token presence and some flavour text and events. Kind of like Kislev in games 1 and 2.

[@gsauwce5488]

So many possible DLCs! Monkey king and jade vampires for sure. I’m thinking race packs could be Ind and Khuresh because their geography and proximity to Cathay. Nippon I think will be a random Cathay faction

[@alexshaw4182]

Personally I don't think Cathayan Dragons have an issue with mating and being close to humans due to the acceptance of the Dragon blooded. It's more to do with being ridden.

[@milkandcookiesTW]

I think it depends on the Dragon in question. Sounds like some of them dont think overly much of humanity other than as a means to an end. The Dragon Blooded are accepted and loved by the Cathayan *populace* , because they are simply better than regular humans. But that's not necessarily a perspective shared by all of the OG Dragons, who could potentially think of them as half breeds and pale imitations of a true Dragon. But yeah, we dont really know, perhaps all of them have taken mates regardless

[@helltrigger87]

Would you mate with dogs? Because I imagine that's what the dragon lords see us as and Zhao Ming is just laughing it up.

[@alexshaw4182]

@@milkandcookiesTW I haven't heard anything to suggest they have disdain for us as they are benevolent towards humans, something Andy underlined a number of times.In the military, officers and police are sometimes told not to mix to closely with the juniors, so I thin it's more to do with position. The dragon blooded are in a higher position that normal humans so they see them as special. Also, our first LL is cold to everyone including her siblings. I think it's a bit far to say they have a disdain for humans, just a case of everyone knowing their place and a little self respect, if I'm highly intelligent why would I let something weaker ride me like an animal?

[@alexshaw4182]

@@helltrigger87 The lore says they do mate with us.. who else can they 'mate' with?

[@NarrowDipShit]

Really getting my hopes up for lord packs, faction packs and FLCs years after the release of TWWH3. Heres hoping one day we get a fully fleshed out full map mortal empires campaign with every continent represented!

[@raamaa202]

Bei Chai, you say? Well now I know which city to raze to the ground when the game releases. I believe in the 40K method of dealing with persistent Chaos Cults.

[@user-ph4kk8bh1y]

Exterminatus，yes！yes！

[@makyounerez]

Hoping to get all of this in miniature form as well. I need my animal kingdom vs beastmen dio!!!

[@TheApplesnacks]

Amazing. Simply amazing

[@daddypudding9074]

It’s official, since Grimgor destroyed the great bastion, he killed a god. WAAAAAGH

[@lucacappellini6347]

So, could be possibile a future DLC on Nippon? Something like Vampire Coast?

[@InquisitorThomas]

We had more materials on Vampire Coast than we do with Nippon. Nippon would need to be actively fleshed out and find a unique gameplay niche. Personally in terms of factions I’d like to see get fleshed out and receive a full DLC I’d rather see Khuresh and the Blood Nagas since they already have a potentially really interesting and unique aesthetic that takes elements of folklore and fantasy tropes.

[@tmirred1945]

Lying would imply Intend at the time of the "sending" of the information, in this case you were merely wrong or you acted contradictory to your communicated Intend after the situation changed (the latter often gets confused with lying but as original Intend during the conversation wasnt to break your word so it most certainly wasnt a lie) (unless you were already planning to break your word at that time in which case you would have lied though I wouldnt have a problem with that specific lie). So often wrongly used... but still less frustating than mixing up cavalry and Calvary...

[@dashiellgillingham4579]

Breaking your word remains a wrong regardless of how that violation is done. What changes is the cost of forgiveness.

[@warhammerscience4997]

Im....beyond excited with what the dlc for game 3 will look like. Nippon, ind, and Araby seem assured as late stage dlc once they get everything settled.

[@Bimuhnng]

I'd like to see the Moon Empress as a playable LL, but its possible she will only be an event character who's always changing her face to spy on people. That or she would be an Ariel-type Legendary Hero, an Alith Anar type unit that can cast spells and bust out a dragon form.

[@simonberry4357]

I kinda want the monkey king to literally just be Sun Wu Kong (if that's how you spell it) from the journey to the west

[@azurebrown3756]

Yo M&C, been watching your video since highschool, but wanted to ask you have you ever watch the Lore Video Cinematics on the channel Book of Choyre?

[@alicev5496]

I don't usually buy lord packs in release. But I would totally buy monkey king or jade vampire dlc on release. Also, I hope that the monkey king isn't just free lc for cathay but heads a new khuresh faction when he comes.

[@michaeldavis8250]

Do i sense a rivalry between cathay and the lizardmen? If so, im very excited to tear apart some dragons with the help of my carnosaur doomstack. Also super hyped for tiger and monkey-men

[@Cifer77]

Lookin forward to those Troglodon vs Sentinel animations

[@codysmith6617]

I personally think Cathay will be a serious late game contender, map-wide. I very much see the early campaign being centered around straightening out the issues at home between the siblings, Tzeencthian cults, Tzeencth himself, etc. but as the campaign continues and as the armies of Cathay grow stronger, I see them branching out across the seas and bringing war to Lustria, Arabs Coast, and maybe even Ulthuan itself. I’m not sure though, I’m super stoked about Cathay, I think it has serious potential to be the most well rounded factions in the entire trilogy

[@kapitankapital6580]

4:17 the whole of Cathay is a giant transmutation circle...

[@imacatman8775]

Seeing demons climb ladders is so weird

[@kevinz8970]

It's kinda cool to see the city where my parents from Fu-Chow(Fuzhou) being part of Warhammer Lore now.

[@richardround2071]

Wouldn't be surprised if the dragon emperor I'd trying to expand the power he used to pull the comet towards the world to push the planet further from the sun to the original location when the dragons dominated. Would explain why he's using humans, partly to create a cabal of underling astronomer to help him in this.

[@saweendra8690]

orger kingdom army book page 60 some thing talks about their alignment in the old lore under the brahmin statue item , they are most likely anti chaos.

[@TheHandofDestiny]

Return to Monke

[@jerithil]

Unless I'm mistaken that's the background music from Romance of the Three Kingdoms 11 in the background.

[@scholaepalatinae4988]

Yes, it is! Played the hell out of that game. Too bad Rotk and Nobuna's Ambition by Koei Tecmo now feel like another yearly cash grabs. :(

[@jerithil]

@@scholaepalatinae4988 Yeah I played a lot of ROTK 8 and 11 could never get into the later ones.

[@maciejtedeque8096]

I hope one dragon will be corrupted by tzeentch. Imagine him having blue sking wih gold horns. That would be awesome

[@darthcalyx8986]

I am exited for Nippon because 1. samurai combined with warhammer whats not to like and 2. total war shogun 2 was the first total war I ever played

[@xXJAKMACKXx]

I summon yao ming to be in the space jam. I cannot contain my whee knee's excitement

[@poetrollem326]

Oh man I hope the admiral has a malus kind of start that would be perfect. Still nervous about sea themed factions though, the current options are underwhelming

[@adamsigala1752]

Nice

[@lostinthestorywithjeremymi9385]

When I heard 'Tigermen', I thought of weretigers at first. But after the rest, they don't sound like ailuranthropes.

[@charlesman8722]

So most of the fun stuff has been confirmed, neat… Try might as well as confirm Araby since everyone keep going there.

[@Jurgen1123]

I like the new lore.

[@zehaha111]

Nippon was mentioned, just not in name directly. It was stated that the blue dragon Ying Jin or how she is called, protects the coast from Dark Elves, pirates and other human nations further east. There is literally only one human nation east of Cathay. Nippon. So I guess Khuresh, Kingdoms of Ind and Nippon are very likely at some point in the future.

[@PaladinQuinn]

I don't know Li Dao vs Monkey King Lord Pack makes more sense to me than making Li Dao FLC. As for Ying Ling if Nippon is not the Pre-Order Incentive then Nippon vs Cathay lord pack makes tons of sense. I think if anyone to be FLC it will be the Wood-Dragon. But I won't lie this is fucking epic and I am so excited. Especially with so much being confirmed in one way or another. Looks like the East will be quite the Lustria Bowl.

[@Donnie8888]

I want to see variations in the dragon forms of the siblings.

[@IvanKala]

15:52 wait, wait, wait....there is no Kingdom op Nippon, but Empire of Nippon ruled by The Divine Sun Emperor.

[@senshibat8920]

NI HAO! a very nice look. i feel the ancient onesl ook down detached fro mthe morals that are gone so fast a flower dries and fades the winds of time blow its petals away.

[@SuperRedarmy123]

i knew you watch Great Book of Grudges or lore sotek channel :D

[@CaitSith87]

So the fire dragon will probably get lore of fire but what does the water dragon gets as the storm dragon got already lore of life? Maybe the lore of ice from kislev?

[@TheAshHeritor]

The way you're describing how to unfold a vague, nugget-style lore for a setting is perfectly applied to the Soulsborne games, who have reached the pinnacle of that style of storytelling. Decided to rewrite the book I'm working on to imbue that style into it.

[@FranciscoFariasHeatProductions]

To escape the planet before it blows due to chaos

[@gudboah4688]

My theory is that the Monkey king, the monkey men, and tiger people are either creations of the old ones or magical creatures that are not chaotic in nature, like Pegasi or Gryphons. The nagas however are either beings that turned to chaos similar to the fimir, or chaotic mutants.

[@mycure0498]

They could also be jade vampires who gave into their monstrous curse like the strigoi

[@ValentinoMarino11]

Yes definitely! Don’t forget the dragon horses.