I Found the Rafale's Weak Spot

The recent Rafale upgrade to version F4.1 has exposed a potential aircraft weak spot.
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[@ArthurDelorme]

There are some mistakes and information missing which makes the conclusion flawed : 1) The rafale over the shoulder targeting and shooting in the late 2000's was done trough link 16. This should have been mentioned in the video and it missed it. 2) Rafale F4.1 introduces a rafale specific directional datalink like the F35 has which is intrisincly more resilient to jamming and more discrete than link 16 + better bandwith than link 16 for video more data sharing etc. a) It will allow exchange of data & better passive location of ennemy sensors increasing situation awerness allowing more tactical possibilities. With F4.1 datalink you exchange & process raw data between aircraft to build a more robust SA while link 16 you are just sharing an already processed track to your wingman. b) It will be a first step towards collobrative fighting with drones (expected with the F5 standard based on the Neuron). F5 standard is still being defined but discussions are around a next gen GaN AESA radar with EA capabilities, true Sead role which is currently missing + remote carriers based on the Neuron + replacement of current ASMP-A nuclear supersonic missile with an hypersonic one. 3) Scorpion HMS is not an american HMS, it is from Thales, France and it is ITAR free. Big mistake here for an expert video. 4) Rafale 4.1 is the last standard for which all older rafales can be retrofitted. Newly delivered rafale 4.2 will have structural changes and will differ from the F4.1. Only new rafale 4.2 will be able to fully evolve toward future "blocks".

[@jeanvaljean9293]

4) that’s no longer true. The plan has differend a little. Its no longer f4.1 and .2, there is a .3 coming as well. There is no structural change but wiring is in the structure and therefore modifying but mean disassemble the plane the change cables and they reassemble (like for the f1 of the navy). The first fly by light rafale is expected for 2027 tranch 5.

[@karakiri283]

@@jeanvaljean9293 No. The new Rafale F4 will be able to evolve to F5 standard, while the older ones will not. Because the internal load and architecture are different between older Rafale and newly made F4 ones. Older Rafale can be upgraded to F4, but they will not be able to evolve to F5 upgrade. There is no external changes, but internally there is quite a lot.

@@karakiri283 but is it structural changes, or just the "wiring", maybe (cooling) vents...?

[@ArthurDelorme]

@ It is only internal changes

[@ArthurDelorme]

@@verdebusterAP Spectra is very capable and continuously uprgraded to keep up with modern threats. It is a self protection suit, protecting only the aircraft, hiding its true location or even cancelling its own radar signature. Given rafale success in exports compared to other EU designs you can tell it is ahead of the EU competi-ion - and even US designs bar the F35

[@jeanvaljean9293]

It’s not a secret, it was publicly said by the french airforce. The f4 was always about having it’s own version of interpatrol com system allowing raw sensor data to be shared. That’s the all point of the f4 standard (the f4.1 to f4.3). F5 is supposed to allow for the rafale to order drones around him.

[@bastadimasta]

What drones?

[@swann67000]

​@@bastadimastathe dassault neuron, watch the video

[@bastadimasta]

@@swann67000 nEuron made its first flight in 2012 and still isn't introduced. It's a dead project.

[@swann67000]

@@bastadimasta no it is a PROTOTYPE! You understand what it is? It is supposed to be the drone flying with rafale f5. Neuron was never built to other thing. Nothing dead about. French budget is so small they cannot have "dead" project like american. Don t have the money to throw out the window

[@bastadimasta]

@@swann67000 nEUROn is a 19 years old program. It has long passed to be called a prototype. It is hopeless. Turks reached the same level of stealth fighter drone in 4 years, and probably have a more capable drone right now. Are French poorer than Turks?

[@Desi365]

Very interesting video. I'm curious why you hinted the Gripen E was any different. Another day, perhaps ?

[@salahidin]

I always thought the rafale’s data-bus was fibre optic. At least the backbone. This seems to be corroborated by a quick search “MIL STD 1760 is the military standard electrical interface between a military aircraft and its weapon systems/on board avionic systems. This standard has a fibre optic backbone and can facilitate high speed data communication. Rafale's avionics are integrated through four MlL STD-1553B data buses and two MILSTD-1760 data buses.” (Center for Public Policy Research)

[@tomschmidt381]

As an avionics tech back in ancient times, 1960s, I find the concept of data fusion and cooperative aircraft passive sensing fascinating. Your comment about fiber optic connection in the weapons pylons kind of took be aback. Fiber is pretty fussy and pylons are in a harsh dirty environment. I would have expected any connection to weapons would be copper.

[@tsorevitch2409]

You can have an optics to copper converter on the pylon end. It's dirt cheap for at least 10 years. I'm not an expert but it should be easier to shield the converter from interference than the whole copper line.

[@trespire]

F-4E maintainer here. Information management started to come into its own with the likes of the Phantom & other 2 seater strike platforms. Systems have been improved and added since, but the foundational principals were there from the begining. Today, fiber cables and their end ferruls are resilliant to harsh environments.

[@araxonUK]

Eurofighter FBW is controlled through optical fibre plus some other systems. Don't remember how much, but there was significant weight reduction by implementing optical fibre.

[@araxonUK]

Using another plane for targeting was done in 90's by SAAB with older generation of Gripens using their unique datalink. Six gripens could use each other sensors and weapons system and other planes or other platforms just receive data.

[@enchated1847]

Wow, this was an awesome video. I wish u could do such a deep research on LCA Tejas Mk1-A. It's also a new variet of Tejas (it's first flight will happen this month). Perhaps u can do a deep research on it as well and find its capabilities and upgrades.

[@lucaj8131]

From what I remember, all older of the rafales (F3R and under) are planed to be upgraded to the F4.1 standard at some point, but wont be upgraded to any higher standard because of the outdated hardware. But, Rafales that are manufactured at the F4 standard (so I suppose Rafale being made right now) should be of the F4.2 standard, with some internal hardware upgrades compared to the older ones, and will have the capacity to be upgraded to the F5 standard, F6 if that becomes a thing.

[@lucaj8131]

Does anyone know how hard it is to change the data-bus on a jet? Because that may be the separation between non native F4 rafales (F4.1) and native F4 rafales (F4.2)...

[@dimbulb6443]

Colloquially, the wiring may generically refer to electronic systems.

[@phillip_iv_planetking6354]

So basically, they added wifi to the F4.1.

[@stephanvelines7006]

Basically only that, and: - RBE-2 AESA radar - Improved OSF (frontal IRST, TV + laser designator) - MICA NG medium range air-to-air missile (passive IR or active RH) - Improvements to SPECTRA protection system - new targeting pod - new payload options - predictive maintenance and engine efficiency / extended maintenance cycle

[@nickbrough8335]

@@stephanvelines7006 Still with a user base of 1 (sorry the middle east and India don't count as they will take what France offers or buy US).

[@jeffreyspinner9720]

@@stephanvelines7006 ...you act like this ain't gonna happen if they fly within 160km of an Su35 or equivalent. I'm waiting for these "warplanes" to take their chances along with the "F16s" and "Gripens" over Ukraine. I got my popcorn and beer... this should happen really soon now, at least covertly. The Russians can get a lock on F35 at about 90km, but see them from much farther, and they have overflown Ukraine before and the Russians have tracked them. So: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rqC2e3awgdGaoZI Let's get ready to rumble. It took Russia over 2 years to figure out they are at war... but they declared they were in a war just in the last few days... alrighty then.

[@spiral83]

​@@nickbrough8335 this is so wrong its hilarious. -Croatia -Egypt -Greece -India -Qatar Future ones include: -UAE -Indonesia

[@nickbrough8335]

@@spiral83 how many of these did France finance (loan money to the Govt to buy Rafale ?)

[@Ashehasawienerdog]

2:55 a rare sight of a flight of rafale's looking for a mate

[@Space_Maniac]

i'm thinking that the Passive sensing exists but isn't correlated between aircrafts yet. also that such old data buses make some sense for the period where it was engineered (early 80s) it's good to be back, couldn't watch your vids for a while due to IRL stuff

[@forzaelite1248]

iirc MADL collaborates to track and send passive data to other F-35s or other compatible systems

[@jansolo9200]

Love your videos keep it up !

[@Lost-In-Blank]

I really enjoy your highly informed engineering approach to military aeronautics. In an internet filled with stick-and-rudder people, it is information and interpretations hard to find anywhere else.

[@Marcellogo]

Let's add that AFAIK cooperative engagement capability is something current 3F release of the F-35 just doesn't have (together with a lot of other things Lockeed advertisements gave for granted or imminent already long time ago) and would be implemented just in the new versions after increment Three.

[@slmyatt]

An Italian, talking to Americans, about a French jet. I guess we can all get along.

[@The_ZeroLine]

Only Americans are allowed to watch KZbin? That’s new.

[@shubs3566]

@@The_ZeroLine ha ha...the bubble is difficult to break with muricans

"talking in english"

[@Ghredle]

You forgot to mention that this Italian is a true expert

[@The_ZeroLine]

@ Speaking American you mean. He said “An Italian, talking to Americans…” Although it should be “An Italian, speaking to Americans…”

[@AmauryJacquot]

the processors themselves don't really matter if you have sufficient hardware accelerators to do the heavy calculations (think FPGAs and ASICs) the new fiber optic cable may be required as a specialized communication channel between the pod and the pod-controlling computer

[@justacomment1657]

I would guess that you can save a few hundred kilogrammes if you go fibre optic instead of cooper. Nothing to sneeze at in an aircraft. As long as your data bus uses some sort of standard the medium does not matter for the processors.

[@0MoTheG]

I have never seen ASICs but plenty of FPGAs in military gear. The field upgradeability is nice and the numbers are just too low for ASIC.

@@0MoTheG and cheaper too

[@MacChew008]

Side note: Home wiring data speed can achieve Gigabits level, as most home are not subjected to strong electronic interference. ie radar of the aircraft or that of another aircraft next to it. Copper wiring shielding and various EMC reduction measures can only protect to certain interference levels. My Guess, why some Aircraft are able to transfer at higher data rates, usage of Fiber optic cable.

[@justacomment1657]

Fibre is alsow way lighter and you can simply update performance by changing the transceiver from 1 to 100 Gbit... Imagine the weight and size requirements for Letzt say 48 shielded cooper cables...compared to 48 fibre pairs....one can pass through a 2cm diameter....the other needs magnitudes of that. On top of that the shielding for the cooper core must be pretty comprehensive as in the air you do have solar and radar radiation on multiple frequencies on top of the basic EM shielding....a cooper wire will be heavy as fuck and easily damaged. It's much easier to have a cooper to fiber media converter in the pylon.

@@justacomment1657 and you just need few fibre pairs as the bandwith is 10x easy

[@justacomment1657]

@ you don't even need new pairs if you have om3 you can use the same fibre for all.

[@milosterzic6452]

I hope your health is ok man, i remember seeing a video a while ago about you talking about it

[@Millennium7HistoryTech]

Getting better every day

[@elyw2174]

To use the comment of this video on another website by Picdelamirand-oil : "The video makes unjustified assumptions and errors about the Rafale's characteristics. For example, a key point in the reasoning behind the low throughput of the Rafale's internal data buses is based on the fact that there is a need to upgrade the throughput of these buses to be able to use the Talios pod, which would only be possible with F4.1. But this is completely untrue, since Talios is already in use with F3R, so there's no need to upgrade. From that point on, everything falls apart. In any case, if by chance he was right, we wouldn't try to pass video on a 1553 system bus, which is a control bus, but we'd add a Video bus to the architecture, for example a 7221 bus."

[@billhanna2148]

Thank you again for an ever enlightening and current video ...and the Gripen never ceases to surprise !!💪👍

[@romain5706]

9:50 The logo is that of the PSG football club, not the institutions

[@lukedogwalker]

Stop the video at 4:17 Damn, that's a good looking thing. Almost like a scifi vehicle design from a 1980's anime movie.

[@nasosst3092]

No elephant and no Otis today signiore.... I hope they are OK. Thanks for the interesting info.

[@ivancho5854]

I don't follow this channel much, but I have been very impressed by some videos which I've seen in the past. A couple of things.. if the Raffle is a carrier aircraft, why don't the wings fold? I was stunned when I saw them in the hangar! If the wings folded an extra 50% more could comfortably fit! I'm baffled, unless this is just a land based system adapted to carrier use. Secondly about high speed data links and incredible computing power - are they hardened against nuclear EMP, as I imagine that this is more difficult using cutting edge architectures than (say 5nm) than the larger architectures (like 90nm). I know that spacecraft, at least the ones which are designed to operate beyond the Earth's magnetic shield use large computer architectures to remain functional. Doesn't this apply to military aircraft, or since the end of the first Cold War is it assumed that EMP won't exist? Do say if I'm completely wrong about either point. All the best. 🇫🇷🇬🇧

[@Kollum]

The Rafale was designed to be carrier capable from day one. the air force variant is slightly modified to remove unnecessary weight (there is more than 90% commonality between the three rafale variants, as for the F35 I heard it is lower than 40%. It means that Rafale air force variants is treated against corrosion just like any naval fighter). But it is a small aircraft. Without folding wings, it is closer to the wingspan of the f18 folded than not folded. If you were to modify the Rafale wing to fold with the target to have the same wingspan as a super hornet, you would fold a ridiculously small (1 and a half foot each side) part of the wingtip Additionaly, the delta wing puts the wingtip at the rear, making the plane a nice triangle witch I heard is easier to move in tight space Finaly, the Rafale was designed as France's air delivered nuclear vector, that has to

[@ivancho5854]

@@Kollum Thanks for the info. 👍

[@hwkdfs]

Folding the wings is unnecessary weight and complexity. The Rafale has been navalizable since the beginning Its weight and small size are the consequence of the naval aeronautical need.

[@patrickchase5614]

I noted with interest the part about you having your doubts about Rafale's active radar cancellation system being "the only" EW suite capable of active cancellation. I would note that active cancellation is easiest when: 1. The RCS of the protected aircraft is relatively simple and changes gradually with azimuth and elevation. The more complex the aircraft's shape, the harder it is to correctly estimate the required amplitude of the cancelling signal. Note that diffractive/resonant returns are fairly easy to predict, while specular ones are much more complex. 2. The radar to be canceled has relatively low frequency and bandwidth. It's a lot easier to cancel a VHF-band surveillance radar than it is to cancel an X-band targeting set. So if I were designing an aircraft with active cancellation in mind I would design it to use shape and RAM to defeat higher-frequency radars, and I would keep the shape as simple as possible to make cancellation of lower-frequency radars as easy as possible. If you look at the stealth aircraft landscape, there are three that seem tailor-made for active cancellation in these respects: B-2, RQ-180, and B-21. The fact that the US abandoned the B-2's low-level-specific "beavertail" in the B-21 further suggests that it believes that it has solved the problem of ground-based low-frequency radars, and active cancellation is perhaps the most obvious way that might have happened

[@pentinou]

As the rafale infrastructure is at least 25yo, I do not doubt some legacy parts are aging fast. 4.2 standard should change completely the infrastructure of the plane to be compatible with future F5. And Omnirole means, it can switch role during a single flight and totaly reconfigure the plane instantly for the new role without having to go back to the base for a reconfiguration.

[@GuigEspritDuSage]

I paused @8:21 and searched on the wikipedia for VMEBus : the two CPUs seems to be plug in a VME industrial bus : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VMEbus The early versions supports only 40 MB/s speed (byte, not bit), as rafale was designed on the 80's, it's probably the system speed of prototypes and F1 variants. As far as I remember, SPARC CPUs have been upgraded at least one time, if it's still on VMEBus, the last revision (1997) is limited to 320MB/s, so it could support a network card up to 2.56Gb/s, which depending on the low level bus protocol used on the F35, could match its 3.2Gb/s but no more and can saturate the computer system bus.

[@meca_8964]

What i read long time ago, but i'm noy very sure, is: F4 variant are the brand new rafale build in this standard, for French Army. The F4.1 gonna be the F3r upgrade at F4 standard for French Army. When the F4.2 gonna be the version on sale for other countries. Nothing to do with improving the standard. If anyone can comfirm, i don't remenber where i read that.

[@indentifiantalacon52]

No need to watch to said "good job"

[@steelrad6363]

Always enjoyable. Thank you. The data-bus is the literal backbone of all modern aircraft.

[@umarchaudhry8953]

I learn something new every time I watch your videos. Awesome jam

[@engineeranonymous]

The wiring also might something to do with power. The computers in fighter jets are not latest generation so their electronic systems tend to have a rather high power requirements. To receive, process data there might not be enough power for the computers to work and cool.

[@Moontrue1on1]

The J35 Draken missile engaged a target designated by another aircraft in the late 70's The JA37 Viggen successfully achieved radar lock on the SR-71and simulated hit in the mid-1980s... The missile was guided by the ground station, which had the power to penetrate the SR-71's defenses. Both the J35 and JA37 radars and sensors could link up to four jets and one ground station. Jakt Länken (hunting-link) It's even declassified by now. lol

[@patrickchase5614]

I belive that most 4th-generation aircraft have similar databus limitations, unless they've been substantially redesigned as in the cases of the Block 70 F-16 or the F-15EX. That's arguably the biggest differentiator between those aircraft and their respective predecessors.

[@Darling-xy9qp]

Nothing about price per hour comparison between F35 and Rafale ? Nothing about reliability ?

[@kilianklaiber6367]

Very insightful... since the avionics and electronics develop at a much faster pace than the air frame, shouldn't a "6th Generation" aircraft have a modular electronic structure, such that it can be easily adapted with time? If stealth is losing importance, what does that mean for future aircraft? Is the F-35 going to be outdated in 10 years because its electronics are going to be outdated?

[@brunol-p_g8800]

To answer quickly, yes. GaN AESA radars make stealth as viewed by the Americans obsolete.

[@ArveEriksson]

... This reminds me of the Sega Saturn. It also had a funny A-F control bus.

[@kevinkilleen6375]

Can’t stop loving that music with info that makes sense.

[@Abhi-lq7qm]

SDR has been implemented with Indian Rafales which are f4.1 equivalent

[@j.celgoog3275]

I remember that a future variant (F4.2 or F5) should have a totally revamp internal wiring that make previous version mechanically incompatible with the previous one, a first with the Rafale.

[@gerhardris]

Great video as always. I'm very worried that in fact (as many have stated in the past of history repeating itself) humanity is again building technologies that have implications that are so complex decission makers always will get it wrong. In a war one or the other side wins or both lose. A win win scenario isn't possible. France prudently whishes to remain independent. It wants to rearm on a more war footing. In the (mid) long run France won't be able to keep up in the arms race. Europe could as a whole build non exportable high tech weapons outside a closely agreed amount of nations. These should be both the extreme costly high end weapons. AWACS replacements etc. But also within these selected nations such as Japan South Korea, Australia besides NATO stand alone weapon factories to produce slightly superior to the rest prolongend war weapons for conscript large armies. MAG, .50 cal, basic Fiat G91 philosophy mass weapons that work.

[@raphofthehills4405]

_"They needed the Rafale to replace the venerable Crusader 2"_ Hmmm, afaik the Rafale replaced the Super Etendard. Crusaders were long gone by the time the Rafale entered service 😂

[@benmol_]

The french navy kept it's Crusaders until 1999. They didn't have the same missions as the SE : the Rafale F1 were introduced as soon as possible with only a few weapons available and no real capacity in a2g because the navy didn't have much choice

[@phelansa23]

Great video! Thank you.

[@michaelberger6699]

I think the only problem with the mirage is production volume. That and depth of armament inventory and production volumes.

[@rikardnorlen752]

@16:53s I think the computational capability and upgrade-ability is all SAAB talkes about!

[@doncalypso]

Interoperability with the F-35 makes sense since Rafale-Ms are compatible to operate from American supercarriers. A squadron of Rafale-Ms stationed on an American carrier will definitely be useful in wartime if they can seamlessly share data with American F-35Cs.

[@sorryociffer]

LOVE the look of the tandem seat Rafale….

[@MN-vz8qm]

They call it omnirole not only because it is indeed multirole, but also because mission profile change can be done on the fly in the air.

[@MarioSeoane]

I think the most important issue is the G and the K at the end.

[@julians7268]

I really cannot wait to see the first public display, or declassified information of from a successful test with tactics, maybe a BFR engagement with a dogfight component, using either the F-35 or one of the new NGAD fighters utilizing CCAs, Collaborating Combat Aircraft, that can pull whatever G's the drones are designed to sustain and can be specialized for specific tasks such as electronic warfare, air superiority, missile truck, decoys, some carrying fuel, and whatever else people think up. Those CCA's could also fly escort for B-21's which could even turn out being the best setup of all.

[@andresimon5654]

Scorpion system is french and made by Thalès it is not not american. It was bought by the US to equip their National Guard F16 pilots. Open source info…

[@-qsprey7881]

Professionals always have some unexpected perspectives and discover key details. the mf 1553b

[@buildingandfixing4397]

this is my favorite plane for being named after my favorite teenage mutant ninja turtle. what a great idea to name a fighter jet after him

[@kf8228]

It’s Rafale not Rafael. That’s French for hail of bullets. Rafael was definitely the best turtle, agreed.

[@bernarrcoletta7419]

It would be interesting to see how a Generation 4.5 fighter with advanced computing would do against, say, an F-35. Also, in the news this week were some photos of stealth external fuel tanks. I wonder how the RCS of a Generation 4 fighter would be affected if you installed a stealth tank, particularly from the side, versus a clean wing.

[@bitrage.]

I absolutely love the way Rafale looks, maybe on par with the SU-33....

[@smellysam]

Could it be that they have added a direct fibre connection to the pod, bypassing the fibre loop that all the other systems use? The various optical systems are capable of generating stupid amounts of data, so secondary direct bypasses would make a lot of sense.

[@Marcellogo]

A correction: the first 4.1 consigned was not the French one in the new but the ones to Croatia that were taken to such a standard from the F3R one before being consigned last year. Deal made between France and Dassault for developing the new version obliged infact France to not retrofit older planes (almost for the moment) with it but to acquire new ones. So France had to find someone to take the older ones, Greece was first and Croatia followed so taking the most modern ones (F3R is from 2018) but NOTHING forbade them to upgrade the planes to the new standard. Only difference is that Croatia got mostly single seat planes (10 on 12) while new ones for France are all two seats, given that new standard is moslyt about A2G missions so an extra operator is definitively an advantage there.

[@damien2198]

"20 megabit per second" is that dialup modem ? cannot be fiber

[@Hebdomad7]

Good ADSL or 4G internet is about 30 megabits. Dial up was measured in kilobits... 56 kilobits was considered fast for dial up. 3mb files could take 3+ hours. Fiber Internet starts at 100 megabit bit can easily go to gigabit speeds. So several orders of magnitude difference means in the past 30 years, we have gone from going from a 32x32 GIF of a Cat. To 4k 60fps live stream of a Cat.

[@frederickastorgav7991]

I go with @arthur, though I think interoperability between different types of aircraft is a too a bigige risker to take

[@jeanvaljean9293]

@millenium. Please have a look at tragedac, you will understand a lot. Passive ir targeting vs stealth plane. You will also notice that the faf is very heavy relaying on future mica ng ir missile. Also new osf ir sensor and the 3 are very coherent. The faf will use ir is air to air much more than radar. (Until multistactic radar solution has matured probable after 2030).

[@darkofc]

👍👍 very interesting analysis - like your "strange" videos .. 😉

[@exharkhun5605]

I wouldn't compare the internal bus of a single user system to internet architecture. 21 megabit, probably bidirectional, on a managed local network segment where every component has strict transmission slots, can push a LOT of data around without "choking".

[@JoJo-vm8vk]

6:18 No, the first AASM variant was for 500lbs/ 250kg bombs.

[@karlvongazenberg8398]

Given that passive radars (analysing changes ín electronic "chatter") were shown ín expos like 15 years ago, as a gut feeling I risk that Low Observability gives diminishing returns.

[@kathrynck]

Well, better sensors always erode the detection range of stealth aircraft. But they don't really eliminate the value, quite the opposite. Versus a sensor which can detect a stealth aircraft at 60km, you'd better have stealth, or you'll get detected at 300km instead. Camouflage never goes out of fashion.

[@karlvongazenberg8398]

@@kathrynck Distributed sensors and data links make it from 60-300 to 80-100 as an educated guess. And if you throw ín reduced flyaway and "per flight hour" costs, the "lifetime" price comparison makes the case more difficult. Its especially true in the Gripen-F35 comparison, IDK the numbers for Rafale-F35 comparison .

[@direwolf7491]

Could we have an episode on SPECTRA and electronic warfare suite? Please.

[@CausticLemons7]

France is getting Phantoms? Awesome! /s

[@ghostindamachine]

Great info!

[@kevinkilleen6375]

Exactly

[@non-human3072]

Why are you in the car? Oh security, it's secret squirrel stuff 😲

[@newtypealpha]

Here's a theory: interoperability with the F-35 will require the installation of some "black-box" hardware that cannot be produced under license. They need to install a new data bus that will be compatible with the new hardware.

[@skipsteel]

Btw HD FHD 4K video requires 3 Mbps, but go down to HD in Grey scale it goes down under one. FYi looks like thats what their doing the software is criticle here, and that is probably why they chose this road.

[@Kollum]

The thing is, for data analisis to be performed on the images/videos, you need the full uncompressed stuff if you want the software to be usefull

[@EduardOganesian]

The definition of "stealth" IS "low observable"

[@JoJo-vm8vk]

7:11 Talios is already available on F3R. So that wiring story doesn't make sense.

[@zaffazad4040]

Thanks for updating us on Rafale, your knowledge and understanding of systems are second to none. The network fusion may be relevant for coalition missions, the US and any other country, such as Japanese F35s and the US F35s, and non-NAT countries. or among NATO countries. However, interoperability requires the same bus speeds, network cabling data transportation, and power generation to process and run the onboard computers. The most important thing is the architecture and computational power itself. Your presentation and research have indicated some serious limitations for the 4.1 gen. Rafales' capability to use the onboard computers' data fusion and computational power is compromised or below the threshold because of the speed lag from sensors to the bus and computer and to ground stations, air or even satellite networks, as indicated in the presentation. I think the French are pitching Rafales to possible coalition partners, let us say the Indians to buy more or the Qatari AF, about the future integration of their aircraft with the F35 sensor fusion system and network regime for interoperability.

[@olle1983swe]

Saab will deliver to competing planes. Saab is to deliver the Arexis sensor system to German Eurofighter planes. What is the difference between Rafale and gripens EW capacity?

[@Nassos83]

From my understanding the SPECTRA is on par with the Arexis, however the Arexis of the Eurofighter EK is going to integrate Artificial Intelligence and the HARM missile, thus a proper EW aircraft like the F/A-18 Growler, something the Rafale already lacks (SEAD operations). From the schematic published by Airbus DS, it won't have the pod, but rather the sensor suit replacing the current DASS system. SAAB doesn't seem to have a problem integrating systems and weapons to "competing" aircrafts. If requested they can also integrate the RBS-15 anti-ship missile as stated on their webpage. For the Indian MMRCA they're also offering integration of the SCALP missile upon request.

[@somaliano99kingkonghimself75]

You got 2 good eyes bravo

[@jeromedaoulas6410]

Actually the reason for the fiber optic being added is a lot simpler and has nothing to do with connectivity nor sensor fusion The rafale is nineties tech and the video feed from the pod or the FSO is analog and carried by a coax. Image quality is shit but so was the Damocles sensor so it didn’t really matter. Think VHS quality On the new block of aircraft currently being built video feed is now fully digital and the coax have been replaced by fiber optic and allow the crews to take advantage of the Talios full HD sensor By the way f4.1 is just the software there are also hardware blocks (0, 1 and 2)

[@ObeyNoLies]

Can't the Gripen do the same thing when it comes to canceling radar returns?

[@sergarlantyrell7847]

I thought that was only true of the older Typhoon variants. I was under the impression that Tranche 3 onwards they inalled a new processing unit and new fibre optic bus.

[@Millennium7HistoryTech]

I went by memory there. It may well be

[@willyvereb]

Hmm, given that Saab offers to upgrade Gripen-C/D models to the E/F standards I feel mayhaps they still lack the capability to approach the F-35's data fusion. The amount they can achieve IS impressive and Saab is the leader in Europe in terms of fighter avionics. I just can't imagine that 20 years old data buses and cables would match semi-modern ones. Of course it's entirely possible that Saab is willing to disasemble old planes and put them back together with new wires. If anyone is crazy enough to streamline such process it's Sweden. IKEA plane is not that much of a joke, I swear.

[@stephanvelines7006]

Amazing BS in the comments already.. some didn't watch the video apparently. Thanks for the heads-up on the Rafale F4.1. Rafale (only) got a viable platform with the upgrades and especially the F.3. Upgradability and the speed of implementation and validation by DGA is one of the strengths of Rafale. As I understood it the F4.1 standard is more an upgrade program for existing airframes (especially Rafale M) whilst F4.2 will be newly build airframes which likely have improved wiring. For now a possibility could be separate wiring for the systems (not the prettiest solution but a stopgap measure for pre-existing airframes with remaining life). Especially with the focus on cooperative fighting and new AESA radar (RBE2-XG) these hardware issues needs to be addressed. Challenges also include cooling requirements (as seen with F-35). Love to hear your thoughts.

[@brianhaygood183]

I'm still not sold on the idea that stealth is no longer important. The main reason neither Ukraine nor Russia have clear air superiority in their war is basically down to manpads and larger surface to air threats. It is still helpful to be able to walk an aircraft right up to those and destroy it, because a couple years into a war like this the better stand off weapons are proving too expensive. Meanwhile, hordes of drones are helping, but anti-drone technology, including jamming and drone-on-drone action are just emerging.

[@fidem15893]

Certe cose le vedo solo su questo canale. Grazie!!!

[@nishantshrivastava9674]

Can we say Rafale is better than Typhoon or Gripen. If not.. Can anyone elaborate? 😮

[@yveslisiof5434]

Looking into the limitations of link 16 might give you some insight on this subject...

[@mrico523]

🤔 that would probably make sense. Even the old Gripens had to be downgraded to link 16 for NATO use.

[@hwkdfs]

The talios pod dates from 2018 a new order took place in 2022... It is not new and in service since 2020 The mica NG is not new either, it dates from 2028, it is the mica ng ir version which arrives in 2026... There are EM and IR versions on this missile. It's always funny to see English speakers discussing the omnirole. You should know that multi-role planes in France have existed since the 1970s, the two best known are the Mirage F1 and its counterpart the Super Etendrdard or SEM, which were called the Swiss Army knives... For optical fiber this is not surprising and fiber cables are old and very resistant. The Scorpion helmet visors come from Thales and in my opinion do not have US components... The Rafale helmet is an Arlesian...

[@sohrabroozbahani4700]

Who remembers the opening demo of Tom Clancy's HAWX (1) ????

[@marcbrasse747]

Something is missing! That’s what they also said about that Boeing door.

[@NATObait]

I believe both Gripen E and Eurofighter Typhoon will be using the Litening 5 Targeting pod and that is more advanced than the built in Sniper in F35. In fact F35A sold to The IAF had the Sniper system removed for the more advanced model. As usual the speculation as to who has what is just that. Cancellation technology is widely known and used by several ' friendly nations ' and is not a French novelty. That Rafale lacked moving target indicator and 2 way data link to weapons will be remedied but F4.1 still does not get 2 way data link. Gripen has jumped ahead of its cousins by having more advanced weapons intergeneration and GaN technology on its radar..The Arexis EW system looks to be the basis of the upcoming German EW Eurofighters and again the Swedes have found a clever solution that others are trying to copy. The popularity of Rafale sales is partly down to ITAR FREE purchases backed up with French Government loans . The failure in Eurofighter sales is partly due to a lack of ITAR free technology and also German export licences to Saudi Arabia and mutterings of an export ban to Turkey. Before we look to far ahead the collaboration with other countries may give cost savings but has its negative side if you are reliant on a dithering partner. FCAS has a major hurdle to meet before work begins and Dassault are sure to be nervous about its bed mate. Perhaps we should look at Gripen E/F as a Super Hornet compared to a legacy Hornet as much has changed including Engine, Radar, Avionics, fuel and weapons load. Neither Rafale nor Eurofighter have metamorphed in such a significant way as Gripen. Yet. .

[@IMAN7THRYLOS]

Nice video. What it struck me was the SPARC CPU architecture. SPARC was a joint venture between Sun Microsystems and Fujitsu. Practically it is a DEAD architecture for 10+ years, ever since Oracle acquired Sun, X86 CPUs became more competent and affordable for big enterprise workloads and ARM CPUs came in to offer more power efficient solutions. My guess is that Dassault would need to redesign the computing hardware to new architectures and then port Rafale's software into the new system. I can assume that would cost them billions of Euros. Investing in such endeavour would cost them time and resources from the development of FCAS. It would make sense to upgrade Rafael only if they have many orders and contracts to justify it.

[@0MoTheG]

Quote: Binary compatibility guarantee simplifies modernization The Oracle Solaris Binary Application Guarantee ensures that current applications will run unchanged on new SPARC systems, simplifying customers’ system upgrades and reducing risk. Scalability reduces complexity Oracle SPARC servers support up to 384 cores and 48 TB of memory so customers can efficiently consolidate UNIX applications, reducing data center complexity.

[@IMAN7THRYLOS]

@@0MoTheG Oracle bought Sun in 2010, long after the Rafale had entered service. Also the Solaris that used to be sold back in the day to banks and telcos to run critical applications, had significant differences from Solaris that was used for defence. That was a version of Solaris with Trusted extensions that was based on Solaris 8. We can’t know what Solaris was deployed inside Rafale’s computers. But it wasn’t something that could run Oracle. Regardless, my point is that SPARC is DEAD. It is irrelevant if later iterations of SPARC could run Rafale’s code. What I believe will happen is that they will use some ARM based CPUs and will deploy a custom build of Linux.

[@0MoTheG]

@@IMAN7THRYLOS In the long term that is realistic.

[@IMAN7THRYLOS]

@@0MoTheG If there are a few Billion Euros available for R&D, it can be done.

[@benmol_]

From what I understand SPARC CPUs were replaced by PowerPC by the F2 version. And from the beginning the software was designed to run in a virtualized environment, so changing the CPU architecture is more manageable

[@brealistic3542]

I think I would faint if the French Fighter jet designers produced a non delta aircraft !😁

[@ghostmourn]

Today nearly every town in France has a Fiber optic connection (Or they are very close.) Very early on France made the forward thinking decision to install fiber optic connection across the whole country but it ended up taking much longer than planed so only large city's like Paris had Fiber and fast internet and for a long time and many small towns had to suffer with really really slow French phoneline DSL! (Like the Rafael I suppose.) Ironically the US did not opt for ubiquitous fiber in the early days but internet over cable TV advanced so fast that my internet in the USA was 100X the speed I got in France. Now they are catching up across the board.

[@phillipphil1615]

I live in a small town 2000 ppl. In Brittany, we've had fiber since before COVID.

[@Desi365]

the internet service in the US is far more expensive than in France, it has to be noticed, too.

[@youloulou6591]

I guess the quality of the fiber (and the quality of its setup) for the Thalios pod is not exactly the same that the one of our houses

[@jpierce2l33t]

Great catch, this is so interesting! One of my favorite topics, and you covered it beautifully as always!

[@alf3071]

how could a cancellation of radar returns work? is the aircraft a huge antenna that transmits the radar return shifted in phase to cancel the radar waves like a noise cancelling headphone works?

[@Millennium7HistoryTech]

It doesn't work

[@ImranKhan-ty6mx]

​@@Millennium7HistoryTechlove it! Now I can go troll the samosa-wallas.

[@fabienhyvert2319]

"active cancellation" is juste a new word for an old fashioned thing: Electronic Warfare. It is just more accurate version of it

[@0MoTheG]

Passive cancelation is used in LO but I see no way active would work.

[@JoJo-vm8vk]

France chose Scorpion because French company Thales bought the company making Scorpion 😂

[@Lapantouflemagic0]

hmm... i'm of course not an expert on this kind of things, but i think you can do a lot with limited ressources and smart engineering. there's plenty of small indie game that gobble 20Gb or hard disk space because the devs seem to think even the slightliest trace of and poop must be rendered in 4K while a decade ago things would take 1/10th of the space while looking just as fine. so... does anyone need Gigabytes of video feed in their cockpit ? sharing data is neat, but i'm pretty sure there's a lot of overkill here. which doesn't mean the rafale's CPU isn't reaching its limits, but if it can do the trick that's good enough.

[@cannonfodder4376]

An excellent explainer as always.

[@yubisnake]

It's such a pretty jet though

[@Sumitpande-fc4rs]

Why don't you make a video on super sukhoi upgrade. Explain its all upgrade in a video. And also cover its radar which will have L band frequency functioning as well.

[@Sumitpande-fc4rs]

Why is my comment getting deleted from another account ?

[@olivierpuyou3621]

I don't know much about aviation and I thank you for filling in my gaps a little but if my information is good for a plane to be 5th generation it must have, among other things, super cruise, right? So why designate the F-35 as a 5th generation aircraft since it doesn't have it? False advertising or upgrade in the future?

[@i-love-space390]

5th gen is more about stealth and sensor fusion than supercruise. In that regard, the F-35 can go supersonic and maintain it with only mil power. However the F-22 can go Mach 1.6 without afterburner. As for upgrades, yes.... the F-35 is due for a new generation engine in a future upgrade. However, flying at high supersonic speeds is not good for stealth coatings on ANY aircraft. That is why even F-22 limits the time above Mach 1 to preserve the stealth coatings.