"Mimbres In Context: Hohokam, Chaco, Casas Grandes" by Stephen H. Lekson

Steve Lekson gave this presentation for the March 18, 2021, “Third Thursday Food for Thought” program sponsored by Old Pueblo Archaeology Center, Tucson, Arizona
The ancient Mimbres people of southwestern New Mexico were interesting not only for their famous pottery, but also as “players” in the larger history of the ancient Southwest. In this talk Dr. Lekson considered Mimbres history in the context of its times relative to the Hohokam culture up to about 1000 CE; Chaco Canyon from 1000 to 1150; and the run-up to Paquimé/Casas Grandes development from 1150 to 1250. Mimbres began as pithouse villagers making red-on-brown pottery (much like Hohokam red-on-buff) and developing Hohokam-inspired canal irrigation systems in the Chihuahuan Desert. Around 1000 CE the Hohokam culture waned as the Chaco culture waxed in the “Pueblo II Expansion” of old textbooks. Archaeologist Emil Haury, long ago, identified 1000 CE as approximately the time when the Mimbres was transformed into a culture of stone pueblos and black-on-white pottery; he insisted that Mimbres (a subset of the larger Mogollon region) essentially ceased being Mogollon and became much more Anasazi-like. Mimbres flourished while Chaco flourished, from 1000 to shortly before 1150. Political shifts after 1125 at Chaco were reflected at the same time by mass depopulation and social change in the river valleys occupied by the Mimbres. Post-Mimbres people moved south into the desert and formed new communities in mud-walled-pueblo villages (some of considerable size) with little or no locally produced painted pottery. Those post-Mimbres societies almost certainly contributed substantially to the base population for Paquimé, the Casas Grandes regional center from 1300 to 1450.

[@paulmicks7097]

Yes , excellent 👍

[@petem6846]

Fantastic talk! I've read all 3 of Lekson's books and I appreciate his informal style of writing and talking. It has made archaeology much more accessible to me because it doesn't include a lot of professional jargon. In both his talk and his books, it's clear that Lekson doesn't participate in the groupthink of the profession but approaches things with a fresh perspective. Given all the various roles he held throughout his career, it's impressive how approachable what he says is. It's also impressive how respectful he is of the various native american tribes he's worked with.

[@halporter9]

Fabulous integration of archaeology and changes, migrations over time by Steve. Knowledgeable, intelligent. Filled with insights, well labeled as to inferential and hard evidence, etc. impressive.

[@ernestaguirre4300]

What happened at Black Mountain is criminal. A local rancher leasing the land from the federal government, grew disgusted with the numerous holes dug up by pot hunters and took it upon himself to raze the site using a road grader. Local historians tried to dissuade him but he wouldn't hear it. A team was assembled and they rushed in to gather as much information as they could before he destroyed it.

[@tachiinii5545]

Idk if your still into the Chaco stuff but I might have an idea on a very similar group of folks “the lord of Sican culture in Pomac forest” is a great video to compare this and that?

[@damontso212]

I am Navajo and all my life the word Anasazi meaning was ancient enemy, that was being told by non-native people. In Navajo the language it means "those people that do things differently". The word Navajo is derived from the Anasazi, they called us A Na Bay Ho "people of many fields" which the pueblo people relayed to the Spanish who changed it to Navajo.

[@annalisette5897]

I grew up in the Idaho and the Pacific Northwest. Various stone implements, ranging from arrowheads and spear points to grinding stones can be found throughout these regions. Seeing a lot of stone chips on top of the ground, obsidian for instance, and partially worked arrowheads can indicate an old Native camp. We NEVER see any pot shards. I think Native Americans in these areas used baskets and other containers, were not agricultural and migrated with the seasons. Still, there were vibrant pottery making and using groups as far north as Utah and Colorado. It has been reported that obsidian from central Oregon was highly valued and used for trade, far east and south. I think it has been found in the old Pueblo sites. So, why was not pottery acquired by native peoples to the north? I would think even broken pieces would have been valued for decorative value. Some of the brightly colored Mimbres pottery would have made beautiful jewellery even if only small shards were available. I have never heard of pottery connected with more northern groups and I personally have never seen pottery shards among rock chips in the old camp areas.

[@bustermot]

Why are people hating? I doubt it was easy for him to dig up, analyze and disseminate this info for you. So buck up and listen closer.

[@coopart1]

Has anyone figured out the details of how the mimbres got black mineral paint using red iron? I figured it out. And maybe answered another question about their pots. Would love to talk with the Dr. About it so e time

[@oldpuebloarchaeologycenter6470]

Hi Jeff - If you will email us at [e-mail], we can pass your comment on to Dr. Lekson.

[@firiusdubblethink]

17:17 is obviously a mushroom. Is there any other Mimbres art of mushrooms?

[@KarinaTheDreama]

The speaker is kind of disrespectful & little arrogant towards every category of ppl down to his peers.

[@lccsd2392]

His manner of speech is extremely lazy. I can barely understand him.

[@sabineb.5616]

​@@lccsd2392 I don't think that Steve Lekson is lazy and disrespectful at all! If you read his papers and his books, you realize that he is very eloquent. But I agree that he isn't a great talker. I have also difficulties to understand him, and the KZbin subtitles also have a hard time to get it right 😉 I prefer reading about Steve Lekson's theories.

[@lccsd2392]

What a shame Mr Lekson's manner of speech and accent makes him very difficult for me and the closed caption decoder to understand. I'm not an American but I am a Gen X - meaning that I have grown up hearing American accents in film, TV, songs, etc and English is my first language. He needs to sit up and have a care about those that may want to listen to the information he has. Oh well, too late now. I'll get more current information elsewhere, I suppose.

[@halporter9]

To me, he is very understandable speaking standard US English. However the miking is terrible with very low spectrum reproduction which gives an annoying chirp to his speech

[@MrNedsaabdickerson]

Who was the horned serpent and what role did it have on their culture?

[@oldpuebloarchaeologycenter6470]

Archaeologist Patricia Crown (1994:166) cited several sources indicating that the horned serpent among the Hopi and Zuni Indians, and the awanyu of the Rio Grande Pueblos are associated with water, springs, rain, rivers, flooding irrigation canals, rainfall, magical impregnation, and longevity; and that the Horned Water Serpent of the Pueblos has obvious parallels in the plumed serpent, Quetzalcoatl, of Mesoamerican religion, who also is associated with the sky, wind, clouds, rain, life, the morning, fertility, agriculture, water, Venus as the morning star, twins, and learning. Archaeologist Marc Thompson (1994:94-95) wrote "If the horned serpent of the Southwest was ideologically equivalent to the feathered serpent of Mesoamerica, the image was probably emblematic of duality in the Pueblo world...as personified by the War Twins and Venus (as morning and evening "star"). Mimbres horned serpents may have been precocious precursors to later and related [Pueblo] IV water serpent imagery depicted in petroglyphs, pictographs, and kiva murals. In a personal communication to me on January 21, 2024, Thompson wrote “Horned serpents have been recorded throughout the Southwest, including Hohokam petroglyphs (Wright 2021), in the Barrier Canyon style of Utah, and on Casas Grandes pottery from Chihuahua, Mexico. Additionally, they are included in iconographic motifs from the Spiro, [Oklahoma] Site and other artifacts from the Southeast. “Feathered serpents, glossed as Quetzalcoatl (Nahuatl for: "feathered serpent" or "precious twin"), are represented as early as 3,000 years ago among the Olmec of Mexico. Throughout Mesoamerica the image and meaning were associated with duality, Venus, and warfare. “Today, among Latinx societies in Mexico and the Southwestern US, the term cuate, a hispanized version of coatl (snake or twin) is in common usage for a twin.” References Cited: Crown, Patricia L. (1994) Ceramics and Ideology: Salado Polychrome Pottery. University of New Mexico Press, Albuquerque. Thompson, Marc (1994) The Evolution and Dissemination of Mimbres Iconography. In Kachinas in the Pueblo World, edited by Polly Schaafsma, pp. 93-105. University of New Mexico Press, Albuquerque. Wright, Aaron M. (2021) The Iconography of Connectivity between the Hohokam World and Its Southern Neighbors. Journal of Archaeological Research. February 2021. Springer Science+Business Media, New York. doi.org/10.1007/s10814-021-09159-z.

[@miguelpaul1164]

What is up with slip slop???? So much care on inside and to eat with the design side??? Slip slop on outside??? Why???

[@oldpuebloarchaeologycenter6470]

Hello Miguel Paul, Steve Lekson talks about Mimbres slip slop in this Crow Canyon Archaeological Center video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r3y1lpiFh8Rpm5o

[@sallyforth2955]

I have a theory. Many cultures used bowls filled with water or other liquid as mirrors, reflections, and felt spiritual importance to lakes and other reflective bodies of water, so if these were ritual bowls used for divination only the inside was significant. I lived in the southwest US where there are alot of small earthquake tremors that preceeded larger quakes. Fill a non decorated bowl with water and bang on the table, and place bowl near a wall with a checkerboard or lattice design. You will see patterns emerge in the bowl reflection very similar to the abstract designs of these bowls.