Mimir explains why Magni and Modi were messed up

[@Techhunter_Talon]

Also, losing both of their sons could have knocked something into the two of them. That'd be quite the wakeup call for most parents, ideally.

[@kernay5780]

Agreed

[@lordology4815]

Very true bro, it’s really sad that it took the death of their sons for them to change their ways. Thor and Sif were very well portrayed in Ragnarok as complex characters!

[@Gluodin]

Thor be thinking ‘probably was a bad idea beating the shit out of my son’

[@HanithSVK]

@@Gluodin Even if he didn't, we saw that Kratos killed Magni fair and square. Magni was at his full power and still he was not capable of defeating Kratos. Even if Modi stayed after Kratos killed Magni, he would die too. Same goes for the second time, when Atreus tried to use his Spartan Rage and, as Modi puts it: "I think i broke him(Atreus)", then Kratos activates his Spartan Rage and by this point the only reasonable thing to do is what Modi did. Run. As fast as possible and do not look behind. And the last time, Modi was beaten purely so that creators could show Atreus spiraling out, by killing him. Ofc, even if fully recovered and givem Thor's hammer, his fighting abilities were not that impressive. With or without hammer, Kratos would kill him, just like his older(and very likely stronger) brother.

[@lordbiscuitthetossable5352]

@@HanithSVK It even goes a step further in my mind. Magni represents the brute strength that characterised Thor and his masculinity, while Modi was openly insecure and often served as the anvil to Magni's hammer. Both men sought weak game to bully like Thor had done to them, which is why they were so intent on fighting *Atreus*. Sure, Kratos was a measure of their manly prowess, but the kid represented someone lower on the totem pole then them that they could brutally bully and unleash a lifetime of suffering on which really puts it into perspective, pretty much most of their interest was in little Loki. I mean, Modi was literally beaten so badly even a child could've slit his throat, really puts it into perspective.

[@The_Story_Of_Us]

I love how despite Mimir’s hatred for Odin and how he’s spoken of Thor in the past, he’s still like ”honestly, good for them.” when he hears Sif and Thor are making an effort for their daughter.

[@zillagrilla315]

He hates Odin. If he sees a good Aesir, then he acknowledges them as such.

[@oshkeet]

Also fits in with Kratos and the game's general message of "yeah we do a lot of fucked up stuff and thats never gonna be undone, so at least you can work stopping it NOW".

[@prometheanrebel3838]

Like he said to Baldur at the end of the last game before he killed him: "The cycle ends here. We must be better than this."

[@Thejigholeman]

unlike GOW 1 2 and 3, the gods of asgard are not a bunch of assholes. most everyone is being played by odin in some way. except heimdal. he's just a piece of shit.

[@josephstalin2606]

I like to think Mimir respected Thor at one point before he became a ruthless killer to the giants. That’s probably the only thing Mimir disliked about Thor and it was enough to leave a sour taste ever since. But after so much time he hears Thor making an effort to be better so he thinks “well.. good for them I guess”

[@TH3-1B0SS]

Imagine how relieved Atreus must've been to hear that Kratos did not give Atreus a literal difficult childhood for him

[@helixsol7171]

He thanked Kratos for not giving him the shitty childhood of a Spartan later in the game

[@KingShibe]

Kratos chose not to raise Atreus like a Spartan

[@claytondavis6835]

@@KingShibe granted it's not possible seeing as there is no sparta boot camp to send him to

[@MetroXLR]

Such is Kratos' parenting method since the prior game, as he doesn't want Atreus to become what he was and tries to spare him the hardships he had to endure (at the very least, Kratos is a better father than Zeus was to him...which isn't really saying much.)

[@luqadam408]

@@claytondavis6835 quit it, if kratos wanted atreus like a spartan he would be a mf spartan

[@lockekappa500]

I do find it odd that Mimir paints Sif and most of Asgard in such a bad light, but then you hear about Sif and Thor paining with their sons around the fireplace, and them falling asleep in their laps. I really do think all of this corruption of Sif/Thor had to do with Odin. It's why Sif "turned" so easily on the Asgardians. She desperately wanted an out from Odin's grasp, but everyone was too terrified of him to stand up.

[@sakaiclips]

I think when they lost their children they woke up and realized what was really important and was really happening like Odin using them and not caring for their lives,only his own mission

[@lordology4815]

It was very clear that Odin had conditioned Thor to feel as if he was stupid and only useful when he was violent, and because of that he struggled with the drink because he didn’t really know who he was, but only in the end did he find clarity in the love he had for Sif and Thrud, which wouldn’t have happened if not for our boy Kratos!

[@deadmanexperience724]

Fimbulwinter changed them maybe

[@TheTruem4n]

When an father mentally abuse you from childhood, it will heavily affect your problem solving, social, thinking and decicions skills in adulthood. That's why Thor all he does is smashing stuffs, kills and drinks, because he's lost and don't know his real life purpouse and that affect the way he raises his sons. Their deaths were wake up call to Sif and since then she's been trying to wake up Thor.

[@Hunter_VanderMatthews]

Well, speaking from experience, you can still have good moments with your parents even if they're abusive to you.

[@TriXJester]

Something I noticed about Thor throughout all of this game is his reaction to things that seem to cause him stress is that he will literally turn his head away from that thing and refuse to look at it. He does it with Thrúd outside the tavern, he does it when Odin reaches into Thor's space for his drink in Kratos' house, and he did it when Odin was literally killing him, only when Thrúd screamed did he turn to look at her. To me as someone with a very similar response to triggers, it rings true that Odin abused his kids when they were young. Thor is the god version of the The Elephant and The Rope analogy.

[@lordology4815]

Thats a terrific analysis, thanks for sharing bro!

[@Zangamarth]

I'm not familiar with the elephant and the rope. Explain?

[@lordology4815]

@@Zangamarth of course bro! The elephant and the rope analogy refers to the idea of training elephants and how it relates to the human psyche, in this case Thor! So basically when elephants are very young they’re chained/tied with a rope which is enough to hold them, but as they grow bigger they’re conditioned to believe that they can’t break away, the elephant believes the rope can still hold them so they never try to break free. These animals could at any time break free from the rope but because they believe they can’t, they remain stuck right where they are. This refers to Thor being roped down by Odin, and that Thor has the ability/strength to break free of him but has been conditioned to believe that he can’t, I hope that answers your question bro!

[@seratarsybagusibrahim5018]

@@Zangamarth do you know why elephants, with their great physical prowess, don't break their enclosure? Since they were kids, their leg is chained with a very durable chain so they wouldn't be able to escape Even if they want to escape, there's just no way a baby elephant could break the chains They would try again and again to break free, but they can't After a while, they give up, they have accepted that they can't break the chain on their leg With this mentality already forged into their mind, even if you only tie their leg with a weak rope, they won't try to escape, they would give up before they even try

[@modernwarfare134]

Now that u mention the elephant and rope, one coukd argue that there is was a side quest in the dwarf realm that forshadows this theme, id like to believe the devs intended for it to be

[@Zenn_Chan]

that line of "Lad, I know you didn't have an easy childhood, but you cannae fathom how much worse it can be" really hit hard. Kratos wasn't a great dad, but he truly cared, and I believe Atreus always knew that, no matter what. So for someone like atreus to then find out the concept of full on ABUSIVE parents, that must've been such a gut punch to him. *people can have it even worse than he did*

[@lordology4815]

So true man, Kratos is very clear that he wants his son to be able to survive without him and be strong, which is what any father would want for their son!

[@MetroXLR]

Compared to Zeus and Odin, Kratos is Father of the Effing Century who more than deserves a "Best Dad" mug.

[@blenderbanana]

@@lordology4815 Odin needed docked dogs he could pull out of a tidy little kennel. Not children.

[@lordology4815]

@@blenderbanana that is very true bro!

[@dangilbertson592]

I think Kratos is a very good dad, he just has trouble showing his emotions. His own childhood was hell, but he didn't do what Thor did. He raised Atreus very well, not softly, but not firmly either. He never hit Atreus, never abused him. Always taught him to think for himself, and to control his emotions. Where Odin, Thor and even Zeus failed, Kratos succeeded.

[@GrippeeTV]

My favorite part about this game was how the first game built Thor up to be this absolute monster and it isn’t until this game you realize that he’s a far more complex character than what Mimir and some of the characters you run into made him out to be. I was expecting nothing but an antagonistic character, along the lines of Zeus’s personality. He’s parallel to Kratos in so many ways, including his redemption at the end and I love it.

[@lordology4815]

Couldn’t agree more man! I was very glad to see that they didn’t make Thor a straight up villain like Zeus!

[@madeofcastiron]

i honestly felt so bad for thor at the end that i really didn’t want to kill him, so at the final battle, i mainly used my bare fist to fight him and did a lot of parrying and dodging.

[@MrEgofreak]

I was expecting a mountain of ripped muscle who yelled EVERYTHING. Seeing the PTSD, eats-his-feelings-away Dad who is so depressed he doesn't have a will of his own shocked me!

[@matasa7463]

A broken man, who after losing his boys, comes to realize that maybe the path he was sent down was a wrong one. It took his whole life to realize his father did not love him, only for him to die for that realization.

[@Warlord-dc5un]

It's like how Kratos was viewed by many others when he went on his path of bloodshed, a monster that only cares for itself and lust for blood. We know he isn't but to those that weren't so knowledgeable he was a horrifying monster.

[@iambuhlockay8007]

Thor and Baldur are both reflections of Kratos, albeit at different stages: Baldur was like the young and vengeful Kratos from the original games who wanted to get back at a parent. Thor was like Kratos at the beginning of his journey towards redemption, a destroyer who wanted to do better for his child, but it was unfortunately cut short.

[@lordology4815]

So true bro, totally agree with this!

[@NikeZay2]

Well said that’s how I felt about Thor and baldur

[@JackAttack15]

Most people speculate that Kratos was supposed to be for Zeus what Thor was for Odin: a weapon that he abused and pointed at his problems.

[@ashtonpeterson4618]

Kratos and Thor were much alike. Destroyers enslaved by the kings of the gods.

[@Ruosteinenknight]

Kratos's journal entry about Thor reflects this. He mentions that if Baldur was right about anything, it was how different he and Thor were: namely Kratos remarks that while Thor tries to channel all his rage and effort to the fight in front of him, Baldur's way of fighting was just plain sadistic and trying to inflict as much as pain as he could.

[@IAmNumber4000]

“A grim inheritance, leaving all of them the poorer” I love Mimir’s verbiage 😂

[@JnEricsonx]

I really hope Alaistair Duncan goes to some cons. Liked him since SPlit Second.

[@forlogic53]

I never got this conversation in my game, but now it all makes sense after seeing it. That's why Thor and Sif can never put the full blame on Atreus while he was in Asgard, and also why Thrud wasnt mad at him even if he did kill her brother. Thor and Sif's old ways pushed their sons to their deaths (and Im sure Odin put them up to the task too). In the opening when Thor and Odin went to Kratos and Atreus' home, Odin said that Thor was "no fun anymore", meaning that Thor had started sobering up the moment his sons died and without the alcohol clogging up his brain and making him "think", Odin probably had a harder time manipulating him hence why he was "no fun anymore".

[@lordology4815]

That’s a great observation bro, if I’m not mistaken I remember Baldur speaking with Magni and Modi atop the mountain pass about being sent by the all father, so I definitely think Odin put them up to it!

[@nh3892]

@@lordology4815 odin sent them to their deaths, absolutely horrible grandfather/father

[@Cometzone12]

In the opening cutscene, Odin also slammed the drink of mead in front of Thor to try and get him to drink it in that moment too.

[@Nachtiu2]

That last part is actually shockingly true, thinking about it now. That's probably why Odin later says "You don't think, you kill!" Thor used to just be a drunken murderer. That's why all known tales of him are just "he killed a Jotunn" and whatnot. And that also ties into another line; "Let it be known that the only thing the God Thor is good for is killing giants and pissing mead!"

[@kotaunknown]

Spot on

[@bluethan806]

"And let's be honest they were kinda useless" - Odin I knew it was a harsh line but at the time it was comical. Now, it's just pure heartless

[@lordology4815]

Yep, that's exactly why I really enjoyed this portrayal of Odin!

[@mikeb53]

Its interesting and very revealing about Odin himself. The fact he used the word "useless" shows that Odin considered being in his service as a measure of worth. Magni and Modi were little use to him.

[@alexgray727]

It’s even worse when you notice Thor look away from everyone after Odin says it

[@LS-wy4bk]

@@alexgray727 Thor is Odin b

[@ridhosamudro2199]

Pretty sure he brushed them out so Kratos doesn't think too much about it during the negotiation

[@JarvisBaileyVA]

I can appreciate that Kratos did his best to never be angry with Atreus. Here we can confirm that Atreus wasn't ever hit to be disciplined. That's a good parent there.

[@lordology4815]

Very true bro!

[@mysteryace2129]

Wasn't hit but he grabbed his arm firmly, yelled at a couple times, and clearly gave him a death glare when he sensed attitude, recklessness, contempt, and arrogance. No hitting isn't necessary to discipline kids but the threat of it is definitely needed or just a red flag for the child to understand that there is consequences for behaving so foolishly. Even with all that said we can't come to the conclusion that Kratos parenting method is how Atreus was shaped up to be who he is. Kratos has only RECENTLY started raising Atreus around the age of 11 or 12(when the first game starts with the debut of this character). We don't know what Faye's method was for raising Atreus to the age of 12. I don't believe she hit him but this game sheds more light that she was an angry/vengeance seeking individual like Kratos but with more empathy to help others..... if they can help her interest out as well(getting revenge for her people). Faye could've been a tiger mom for all we know but with enough love and compassion that young Atreus still loved her.

[@yakobsoulstorm5187]

@@mysteryace2129Kratos never truly got angry with Atreus though. He raised his voice and grabbed his arm once, but these were circumstances where Atreus’ actions put both of them in immense danger. It always came from a place of concern for Atreus, and Kratos made that very clear.

[@sarimveesar4350]

​@@mysteryace2129☝️🥸🤓

[@KalvinEllis]

Love how even the minor characters have so many layers. When you first meet Sif in the game or listen to her recall the time when Magni and Modi were little, or see her interactions with Thrud, can you even entertain the idea that she was once an abusive parent or engaged in debauchery and got drunk like Thor did. It's awesome that "People change" isn't just a theme for Kratos, even Faye was apparently full of rage at one point.

[@lordology4815]

Interesting point about Faye, you can learn much of her exploits as a warrior in all the Vanaheim side missions in the crater!

[@adamtheriault6743]

@@lordology4815 and she herself says in the dream, WE are not our failures, WE are not who we once were, WE must be better Especially since she's not talking down to kratos with that, but trying to lift him up out of his personally constructed despair And it hits even harder that kratoss main phrase, we must be better, was a lesson personally taught by the person who helped him change for the better and loved him, despite what hes done

[@LadCarmichael]

Some people made the critic that the Gods in Ragnarok feel too human, except that was always the point since people made stories about them. Gods were society put into a higher plane of existence. They have good sides and bad sides like the people that revere them. The society of the Gods is a reflection of the society of the Humans, and in a sense, Ragnarok is more true to the spirit of Mythology than many other work of fiction that used it before it. Thor always was a drunk in his stories, hell that is the reason for half the initiating events in his stories, but to turn that aspect into a critic of our current society is brilliant is feel. Yes everyone celebrate Thor, but what is the cost of being an alcoholic god? What reasons drive him to take refuge into his drink?

[@lockekappa500]

Yeah, Santa Monica knew what they were doing when they "modernized" the Norse gods. It's a symbolism, albeit a bit on the nose, but I think it does wonders in paralleling them with our own society.

[@stevenlee3240]

I have taken the courses on Mythology and remembered asking this question on why the gods aren’t as what I imagined them to be. They aren’t all benevolent, flawless, perfect, etc. After reading and doing the paper, I realize that gods in mythology are just human but with power. I ask my prof why. She said that mythology, in the end, was still written by human, based on human and human’s society.

[@keistopherc]

Isn’t literally the whole point of Norse (or really any) mythology that even tho they are gods they still make human mistakes.

[@zoedorrahm]

That has to be the dumbest critique I've ever heard. Not all gods are or have to be shining, all-knowing paragons or whatever. Even the Greek Gods acted pretty human-y. The Norse Gods meanwhile are much more down-to-earth (or Midgard) in comparison. Plus, it'd be extremely boring if all Gods acted exactly the same.

[@marywilcox3102]

@@zoedorrahm Not to mention people actually expected this game to be nearly exactly the same as God of War 3 with all the God-killing and whatnot. It's like they don't understand or want that Kratos is not that character anymore, that he's grown, changed. After the events of God of War 3, he just cannot be that same person.

[@TheSingingBUn]

The story with Thor and Sif's raising of Magni and Modi is scarily realistic in a nuanced sense. I remembered hearing a few stories from the country I was born in, where there are broken family accounts that all start in a similar vein. Where they treat daughters like princesses or house maids (and restricted to never go to any of their friends' parties) while they raise their sons by beating them into shape. Fathers expect their sons to be hardened to do the hard (and sometimes dangerous) work, while daughters stay inside the house for the chore list of weaving baskets, cooking the food, craft the wares in order to sell their work as street vendours. Worst off is when the favoritism is plagued among siblings on top of the scenario I mentioned before. And only for the money to be squandered by drinks and gambling by either mother, father or oldest (adult) sibling.

[@ilhamseptian1604]

Sad that people still have this mindset ....

[@TheSingingBUn]

@@ilhamseptian1604 unfortunately the nature of these broken circumstances are most prominent within 3rd world countries. You won't hear of it from households who could afford phones or internet, but by word of mouth and second-hand experiences who gossip about what goes on with a notorious family within impoverished communities. I can attest to that, but for the sake of anonymity I won't speak of how I am affiliated to these accounts. I have long since left that country, so it has been years since then.

[@lordology4815]

@@TheSingingBUn There are so many people who deserve so much more than the hand they’ve been dealt, I appreciate you sharing your experience bro.

[@ilhamseptian1604]

@@TheSingingBUn funny thing my mom had that mindset but more open as the time goes.....where you come from btw?

[@TheSingingBUn]

@@ilhamseptian1604 ...this will shock you, contrary to popular belief. but I came from the Philippines. Despite the surface where we are known for the smiles through hard times, or the 'always happy' culture we appear, no one really wants to address the crab mentality culture within that country. I grew up within the lower class household, so you can imagine the kind of hardships I witnessed and seen as a child. had it not been for a lucky offer granted to my parents to work overseas, I wouldn't be here now, away from that country with a pc and write this stuff. Its been so long since then.

[@luispalao7418]

Now that scene when Thor dipped his fingers in mead but didn’t drink makes more sense. He was tryin to stay sober. Also when Odin comes in, he checks to see if Thor’s cup was full, he takes a sip and tells Thor he isn’t fun anymore. It all makes more sense now.

[@fissilewhistle]

He pours two cups, offers one to Atreus and one to Kratos, and gets annoyed at Kratos for not telling him Atreus wasn’t drinking because now he has to be tormented by a cup of mead just sitting there invitingly.

[@filipvadas7602]

Its kind of interesting that all of the issues the Norse gods have all stem from Odin Like a chronically abusive and manipilative grandfather who scarred multiple generations with his selfish need to be the dominant personality It really paints the whole pantheon with a lot of complexity. And the idea that both Thor and Sif are desperately trying to break the cycle of abuse after losing Magni and Modi is oddly wholesome. Its just a tragedy it took the loss of both their sons to realise how terrible they were to them.

[@YassineFarah2423]

Their demise was even more brutal as a reality check, the fact Magni and Modi were so awful that not even Odin and their sister batted an eye when they died probably made it more painful for them, Atreus was lucky that Sif never knew the truth of Modi really died.

[@lordology4815]

@@YassineFarah2423 while playing the Asgard segments of the game I was constantly in fear of Sif finding out what Atreus did, since Kratos was actually opposed to him doing it that way!

[@xrphoenix7194]

Another thing. Obviously odins abuse is the reason thor has such a bloodlust, but a detail early on shows he is also responsible for his drinking. When they both come to kratos' house, thor doesn't drink the mead, he smells it and clearly wants to but is trying not to. When odin comes in he slams the cup down in front of thor egging him on to drink it, and a bit later says "you're no fun anymore". He clearly wants thor fat, drunk and angry so he can order him around without question

[@filipvadas7602]

@@xrphoenix7194 in retrospect that scene is actually kinda disturbing. Odin is basically egging Thor to keep giving into his worst tendencies so he can stay an easily manipulated brute , instead of his own person. Literally the exact OPPOSITE of what a parent should do.

[@gojidumb5947]

what would be the difference between the norse pantheon and the greek pantheon? I just wonder what makes if Zeus had a similar approach to his kids.

[@apjtv2540]

It's a sign of a good character that Mimir can be genuinely happy for them. Even hating Thor's guts and despising his actions, he doesn't let that hatred cloud his acknowledgement of someone trying to be better.

[@lordology4815]

Couldn't agree more bro, it definitely makes Mimir quite the unique character given that he's a good person at heart but when he served Odin, he definitely did some nasty things to get recognized!

[@megabladechronicles962]

It's also interesting to see Mimir's knowledge being outdated. In the first game, Mimir is treated as this source of infinite knowledge about the gods, but Ragnarok shows that Mimir's personal feelings towards the gods are not necessarily accurate.

[@williamnixon3994]

@@megabladechronicles962 His knowledge may be practically bottomless, but he's not omniscient, so there's always that chance you'd catch him hearing something for the first time, with the chance growing the more recently said development was made

[@PurposelessRabbitholes]

“A poisonous notion of manhood” that’s a good line right there

[@SokinRidis]

Kinda feminist so it's problematic

[@reeereeebriieee8661]

​@@SokinRidis what?

[@flap.d.jack247]

​@@SokinRidis...what? Even *if* it was a feminist line, that's not even problematic

[@fort809]

@@SokinRidis”don’t beat your children” is feminist now?

[@cr820]

​​@@SokinRidisHow on earth is it feminist? It's saying men shouldn't beat their sons. Does that sound feminist to you?

[@tf4304]

I love how every story eventually just boils down to Odin was a manipulative shit. And I love that so much, with all the themes going for it the theme that you need to cut manipulative shits out of your life is definitely one of my favorites

[@lordology4815]

Definitely bro, even back in GoW 2018 many of Mimir's stories elaborate on how manipulative he is!

[@matthewriley7826]

True, and it seems all the problems happened after he killed his father (in the game) Ymir and created Midgard out of the chaos. It’s like Kratos letting Athena use hope to build something similar.

[@awhikomene9011]

If Magni and Modi were abused like that, you gotta wonder what Thrud’s childhood was like

[@SinfulofSauce]

Thrud's childhood was WAY less brutal than Magni and Modi. Thor still trained her, but he didn't beat the shit outta her.

[@JG09101]

@@SinfulofSauce also considering it's very likely she was Thor's favorite

[@skycopper1336]

All the more why she was okay woth atreus killing anď sleeping in her bros room.

[@awhikomene9011]

Yeah like I get that, but there is quite a bit of trauma either way

[@Lemontarts01]

She was the youngest. As someone with brothers bassically with the age difference thrud had. I can tell you that parrents change their style. I was allowed way more stuff than they were at their age

[@Murmarine]

I kind of like the blured line with Sif and Thor. On one hand everyone calls them abusive drunks who beat their children nonstop because thats what they think discipline is, on the other hand we can see them try and be better with Thrúd, to an extent, but the signs of a controlling parent still show up with Sif, forbiding her from continuing her training, and the eventual relapse of Thor who goes for the bottle again, despite his daugthers wishes. I am a bit sad that this wasnt explored further, like in another sidequest with Thrúd and Atreus, where they talk about their family more indept.

[@lordology4815]

I definitely would’ve loved to have seen more of their family dynamic explored, it’s definitely one of the highlights of the game!

[@johnnynightmare22]

I liked Sif's confession to Thrud: "I have no doubt you will be the finest Valkyrie in all the nine realms....just not for him."

[@neo-warkid4edwards222]

Sif clarified during Ragnarok itself that she's not against Thrud becoming a Valkyrie, she just doesn't want her becoming one under ODIN'S command, fearing that he would send her on a suicide mission like he did with Magni and Modi. in Sif's words; (Magni and Modi) were thrown at the All-Father's problems like brittle knives to a mountain face. once Odin was dead, Sif allows Thrud to train under Freya and Sigrun.

[@nightomchan3054]

And yet in the previous GoW, Kratos ultimately said that once you hit adulthood, you can’t use the excuse of poor education for your misdeeds anymore.

[@lordology4815]

That’s very true bro, though keep in mind Kratos has a different mentality in Ragnarok compared to GOW 2018, but good point nonetheless!

[@chriswihulu]

Well, he isn't wrong, as an adult, you can chose to fall back on what you learned from your parents or you can try to be better.

[@lordology4815]

@@chriswihulu 100% bro!

[@thefatherinthecave943]

Which is stupid because you don’t suddenly realize you are stupid when you turn into an adult. Kratos isn’t a paragon of “the right ideas” he’s basically a conservative dad who just realized just how empty of a person he used to be

[@chriswihulu]

@@thefatherinthecave943 Ehhh, I would argue he was the Wild and Reckless Rebel, who was wronged by his elders, so in turn, he tore down every bit of their legacy and ground their world into dust. Afterwards, he grew up from that, willing to do everything to keep his past hidden, not out of shame, but fearing it might influence his son.

[@jeiillson]

I think at one point Mimir did like & respect Thor, that’s what I get when he said “good for them” when Atreus brought up him & Sif not drinking anymore & doing right by Thrud He prolly doesn’t hate him, just hates the man he became because of Odin

[@lordology4815]

Mimir was part of the Aesir for a time, so I could definitely see him wanting the best for Thor and his family!

[@alkon8032]

It just shows that even though Kratos is a Spartan who grew as a mortal (demigod) in a harsh land he is a better parent than Sif and Thor combined who were born as gods.

[@cotocoyerakson8195]

A little of Greek story for you Caos created Gaia, Tartarus, Nyx and Erebus cause he felt lonely. Gaia created Uranus and Ponto, she was a kind being who wanna make everyone lives happy and in peace, but later on she married her son Uranus and had a lot of childs including Cronos. When Uranus saw that some of their childs was weird as fuck (Cyclops and Hectasomething) he locked them in Tartarus (the titan who live in the core of Gaia. Gaia felt bad for her childs so she planned to punish Uranus for this. With Cronos she castrated Uranus and his nutsack fell into Ponto's face generating Aphrodite (I'm not kidding) Cronos married a titan called Rhea later on and than had that fear of his childs betraying him, so he start to eating them except for Zeus. Later on Zeus and his first titan girlfriend made up a plan to overthrone Cronos and together they made Cronos vomit Hades, Poseidon, Hera, Demeter and Hestia. Zeus, the cyclops, the hectashit, Gaia, Prometheus, Kratos (The god of Power) and other titans and gods killed a lot of titans and imprisioned them in the Tartarus but Gaia got sad because now the majority of her children was locked in Tartarus and she couldn't do nothing about it. Zeus was afraid of his children try to kill him just like he killed his father and his father castrated his grandfather and than he decided to eat his pregnant girlfriend. Athena born inside him and than gave him so much of a headache that he ask to Hefestus open his head with an axe and than Athena got out already wearing her armor and spear. What I am trying to say is: Gods in Greek Mythology have a lot of Daddy Issues and are afraid of their own children.

[@lordology4815]

@@cotocoyerakson8195 Awesome stuff bro, I absolutely love Greek mythology!

[@cotocoyerakson8195]

@@lordology4815 Thanks Jesus. I had a good teacher.

[@imed-ha77]

Because the director reveres Kratos and wants to show him in his best condition, this thing is not forgotten

[@davidjackson9680]

@@imed-ha77yup it’s also why I can’t fathom how people don’t like the direction of his character saying it’s “assassination” when the same dude literally attempted to kill himself after realizing what he did

[@nikosfilipino]

I love how Mimir's explanation of Thor and Sid's terrible parenting justified by manhood and toughness can be compared to Kratos and his flawed but wise parenting of Atreus. Thor and Sif let aesir tradition and the family tradition of beating their children get passed down but Kratos, while absent in atreus' life initially, did not pass down the traditions of harsh Spartan training into Atreus' life. He even mentions in the game that he did not want Atreus to grow up via spartan training because he did not think that life should have been passed on despite his proud heritage as a Spartan.

[@lordology4815]

Very true bro, it's great to see that while Kratos was raising Atreus to survive, he unknowingly was also teaching him how to be a good person!

[@gavo7911]

The portrayal of Thor in this game was incredible. 2018 built him up as this drunken monster who shatters the earth where he goes, and while that is what he is, he's so much more than that. A father who really did love his family, but the psychological abuse he endured at Odin's hands made sure he ended up raising his own sons that way. He and Sif knew they messed up with their boys, so when Thrud was born, she was their chance to try again and raise her right. Sif goes sober while Thor struggles, likely due to Odin wanting to keep him on a tight leash. But when their boys are killed after getting sent at the All-Father's problems, Thor sobers up and tries to be better, which is where we see him in this game: a depressed, traumatized man-child who never got a proper father, desperately trying to hold onto what family he has left while Odin continues to manipulate him, even going so low as to invite one of his sons' killers into Modi's room, no doubt intentional. It's no wonder Thor turned on him in the end. Even if he died for it, he finally broke the cycle and stood up for himself and his family.

[@lordology4815]

Well said bro, it’s interesting going to back to GoW 2018 and hearing all the stories about how terrible Thor is but the truth is far more complicated!

[@oentrepreneur]

What cycle did Thor break?

[@jorgebersabe293]

"a depressed traumatized man-child who never got a proper father." This line can also be applied to Kratos. And that's what makes Kratos convincing Thor more powerful: -Because Kratos was like Thor in the past: A feared destroyer who killed his own kin and also a slave to the Olympians in hopes of getting rid of his nightmares.

[@iatenailsforbreakfast8209]

I honestly think it was a pretty ballsy decision to make the main villain a character who's not exactly a huge loud douchebag but somebody who's sort of quiet, cunning and manipulative. I feel like it's a much more real depiction of somebody who would have that much power. his grand plan isn't to "take over the world" or some shit, he's just a guy who gaslights and gets what he wants at the snap of a finger.

[@lordology4815]

Thats exactly why I really enjoyed the way Odin was portrayed!

[@JnEricsonx]

@@lordology4815 I just have a brain melt when he talks, because it's Toby from the West Wing. Blows my mind.

[@hurricane7727]

Kind of Like Marvel Comics Pre Siege Loki.

[@Night5225]

I love the paradoxical “A grim inheritance, leaving all of them the poorer.” It’s well written.

[@lordology4815]

Couldn't agree more bro!

[@1980nadim]

At first i thought Odin thor and the others will be just like every villain but the game is really good in make you realise that there is not just good and evil and i felt sympaty were i didnt expect it. I didnt hate them except heimdall

[@carlfromaccounting1112]

Well Heimdall was meant to be hated, probably to redirect any anger players would feel towards Atreus for him going on the run.

[@lordology4815]

Taking down Heimdall as Kratos was satisfying, but almost sad since Kratos didn’t want to be the ‘God Killer’ anymore.

[@Pauli-dg2yv]

Kratos should have gave Heimdall the Hermes treatment

[@mrkhim3427]

@@Pauli-dg2yv heimdall doesn’t seem to be wearing any Jordans tho

[@KingCasual1986]

Odin is probably the worst monster you fight in the entire series. Thor needed a hug, Odin should have been tied up and thrown in some cell in Helheim. He got off way too easily (or at least quickly) in this game!

[@brodycaldwell9678]

I think it's awesome that Mimir only has true hatred in his heart (you know what I mean) for Odin and accepts that Thor's problem is largely based on trying to please his father.

[@lordology4815]

True that, I think Mimir on some level did some things for Odin that he clearly regrets now because he too wanted to please the All Father, like enslaving that creature in Svartalfheim.

[@DanialTarki]

0:41 That actually scared me a little.

[@lordology4815]

😂🤣

[@nahte123456]

I find it interesting how the Greek gods and Norse gods differ in divinity. Most Greek gods seem to have been born adult, treated adult, and had powers that tied into the making of the world itself. The Norse seem mostly like super powered people, bred and raised and just as dead when killed. I bring it up here because I think it's an interesting difference in rule. Zues never really had a way to abuse his kids like this, Ares was seemingly never a boy and even if you could just kill him, which typically you can't, it'd throw everything into chaos if you didn't have an answer for it like another god. So his horrible abuse is more about how absolute his power is and keeping it that way. Odin doesn't need that though. He probably isn't as, comparatively, powerful as Zues was in his family, but he can influence the Aesir in ways Zues never could. He could mold their thinking and use both force and mental games to tame them. He could hurt, break, and remake in ways Zues could never understand, the trade off being there wasn't really a safe way to take care of Zues even if you wanted to, while it probably was possible for the Aesir to just murder Odin if they all got together and absolutely wanted to.

[@lordology4815]

Excellent Parallels between the 2 mythologies bro, I especially like your explanation of Zeus and Odin!

[@hurricane7727]

Not really. In God of War 2 it revealed when Zeus was Born he was a Baby and he to grow up First.

[@nahte123456]

@@hurricane7727 Depends on the god as is pretty clearly explained. Zues, his 2 brothers and 3 sisters all were born babies and had to grow, the other 5 growing up in Chronos' stomach. Hermes was born a baby but was literally stealing from Apollo that day. Athena sprung from Zues' skull as an adult in full armor. None of which are normal.

[@Madheim777]

@@nahte123456 uh, it's Zeus, not Zues by the way. (unless you are sayin' it as a joke)

[@francofoohs2667]

They understood manhood so well in this game.

[@efaristi9737]

But Thrud was mentionned in the GoW 2018 when Magni and Modi were still alive. So she was raised by the same parents as them, violent and drunk if the death of their sons is what motivate them to tried to change. So either Thrud is way younger than them and Sif had a change of heart when she was born, tried to raised her differently way before Magni and Modi death or Thor and Sif raised differently because she was a girl. It doesn't make sense otherwise. First time i ever heard Sif being presented as a fierce warrior XD

[@lordology4815]

I would imagine she would've been of similar age to Atreus or even younger in GoW 2018, but perhaps they did intend to raise her differently because she was a girl and the death of their sons is what made them want to stop drinking, that would be my theory of events!

[@gottablast5575]

In one of the conversations had between Sif and Thor she says he’s ruining what little relationship she has left with thrud so maybe thrud knows how her mother and father use to be and caught some of that abuse when she was a child

[@Aurilion44]

There's also the fact that sons and daughters are often raised differently in the old ways and "daddy's princess" stereotype didn't come from nowhere. She for sure was also abused, but very likely in different ways or not as viciously

[@mr.goblin6039]

@@gottablast5575 Sif also mentions how there were moments where Thor and Sif weren’t abusive to their kids. She mentions days when they would just rest near the fire place and tell stories and eat together as family. Odin messed them up, and as soon as their sons died, they must’ve tried to change, which Odin didn’t like. Odin and Thor have dialogue where Odin tries to antagonize Sif and tells Thor things like “she’s ruining everything” or “do you always do what she tells you to do?”. It’s very clear that the cause of Thor and Sif being kind of shitty parents, is because Odin was a shitty parent. Thrud is basically the only one who grew up not knowing what changed, but seeing some of the best and worst of them. It’s sad, but it’s kind of implied Thrud had it better than her brothers.

[@digimonalvatrax2738]

I WOULD LOVE to see Sif in her prime days....that gorgeous golden warrior hair!!!!

[@theashman4290]

“A poisonous notion of manhood, passed down through generations” Love the lessons this game tries to teach us, even through one off lines

[@lordology4815]

That's what makes Kratos such a special character, breaking the cycle and being better being main themes of the Norse Saga!

[@GnightPunpun]

I really wish the story moments when riding around on a sled or a boat would continue even off of it until you absolutely had to switch dialogue cause it’s super annoying to have to sit and wait for them to finish every single time, they sometimes pick back up the story when you get going again but not always

[@lordology4815]

I definitely know what you mean bro!

[@NAVEMAN3]

So Magni and Modi suffered from generational trauma thanks to the All-fucker Odin? Now I'm not so mad at Abuela from Encanto anymore.

[@AStrangeWindmill]

It is honestly scary how easily "fuck'd" can just cascade down a family line if you let it.

[@lordology4815]

If Odin had treated Thor with love and respect, I would imagine he would be a much better father to his sons, as Kratos says ‘we must be better’

[@nikhilsinha7730]

Well the thing is Abuela saw her family as family, what she did she thought she was doing for the good of the family. Odin never saw his kids as his family, they were tools to him. He never truly loved or cared for his kids he just cared how useful they were to him, once they stopped being useful he didn't think twice to get rid of them

[@maximillianoorosco-randhaw9336]

@@nikhilsinha7730 I’m unfamiliar of this “Abuela”. Can you tell me who she is and her deeds as well as her motivations for said deeds, please?

[@nikhilsinha7730]

@@maximillianoorosco-randhaw9336 traditional Colombian matriarch of the most prominent family in a village. Every step she decision she made she believed she was keeping the family together and protecting it's image when in reality she was the one causing cracks in the family and breaking it apart. She loves her family without a doubt, but she was so painfully blind to the harm she was causing

[@dragonking1097]

One thing that made Thor’s sobriety harder. Losing his sons would bring him to try to stop drinking. Especially after his last interaction with Modi was him beating him to a pulp. Then one thing that broke him from his sobriety. A quote from his father which stung him most. “Honestly, I liked you better as a drunk.” Thor had trouble being the father he wants to be for Thrud, when he tried so hard to be a good son to Odin.

[@lordology4815]

His mistake was thinking he had to be a good son to Odin, when being a father should've taken priority which for him, he chose in the end, but his decision was made to late.

[@SaviHow]

It's kinda sad when you think about the fact that not only did Baldur go through the exact same trashy childhood as Thor, but he had it even worse sense he could never feel anything

[@lordology4815]

Very true, it must be why Freya could never get through to him as he blames her for not be able to feel, even though all she wanted was to protect her son!

[@SaviHow]

@@lordology4815 Well slow down there, Baldur had every right to hate Freya and want her dead

[@lordology4815]

@@SaviHow If Baldur had gone through with it, it wouldn’t have helped at all! I’m not defending Freya’s actions, but her motives were to protect her son. Though there’s also the old saying ‘the road to hell is paved with good intentions’ 🤷‍♂️

[@omarreyes7626]

I still find it funny that Moddi was the god of courage yet he fled in fear the moment kratos lodged his ax on Magni’s head

[@FierceDeity35]

Courage goes out the window when your victorious prophecy is absolutely fucking shattered by a 7 foot behemoth with an axe.

[@lordology4815]

Very true hahahaah!

[@vksasdgaming9472]

@@FierceDeity35 Kratos killed his own destiny. He is walking FU to destiny and prophecies by now.

[@alexsmith7313]

My favorite part about Ragnarok and even God of War 2018 is that there isn’t *one* character that isn’t complex and compelling. They all have an interesting motivation and none of them can be pigeonholed into one particular box. Well, Heimdall seems like the arrogant bully for the sake of being the arrogant bully, but even then he does seem to be genuinely scared when he finally meets someone who can hurt him and rethinks his whole existence *very* briefly.

[@lordology4815]

Good point bro, I think that makes the characters and games in general more interesting to play, cause realistically everyone has their own motivations for what they do!

[@kaiyamya9882]

When you think about it, Heimdall has a lot of the same issues as Baldur does. Baldur was functionally invulnerable with the side effect of being totally unable to feel anything, which drove him insane. Heimdall's gift of foresight allowed him to predict a person's actions/intentions, but it also left him a raging misanthrope due to constantly being forced to see everyone's flaws and weaknesses. He even says as much if you talk to him-- "Odin sees the best in people, I see people as they really are".

[@hagamapama]

I do sometimes wonder what would have happened if they'd spared Modi and tried to nurse him back to health instead of Atreus going feral on him. Having an Aesir warrior godling on their side would have been interesting, and it would have been an odd way of bringing Modi's own words to fruition of "having a new brother soon enough." A smack talking demigod with a lightning mace would have been a fun playable at times, even if everyone knew that he was no match for his father.

[@Fernando0396]

That sword pedestal reminds me the 4hrs+ i tried to kill those bosses, was under level but kept trying 'cause i was able to kill one of them.

[@lordology4815]

I really enjoyed facing of against the Berserkers, it was only the ones that had like 2-3 bosses in one encounter that I found challenging!

[@TheWarchiefZekeJaeger]

"And I thought my family was fucked up" - *Baldur*

[@hagamapama]

It's... the same family. Baldur was Magni and Modi's uncle.

[@Babidi111]

- I've been watching so many cinematic vids of these games the last few days that I feel like I should get the game just to show support alone for the compelling story. I loved, hated and mourned for poor Thor.

[@lordology4815]

Ryan Hurst did a fantastic job of portraying Thor, as this complex character who has many layers, unlike the way Mimir spoke about him in God of War 2018.

[@lumberluc]

So Sif wasn't the paragon before. She was an untamed animal. But after Modi, she went on a redemption, because she couldn't handle losing another.

[@solitarysurreal3652]

Gods, I love the emotional depth and character development of this game. Atreus gains a new understanding and appreciation of Kratos's lessons. And Kratos learns to show the kindness and affection his son needs to see.

[@lordology4815]

Easily one of the best franchises of all time!

[@imshypleasebenicetome.5344]

Kraits: Now I will proceed to tell you how Spartans are made

[@lordology4815]

Yep, those fellas did not have it easy!

[@Eszra]

I find it interesting how here its said they were trained cruel but later Sif speaks to Thor as if the boys were angels and were their most precious things as children. How they would read to them and fall asleep in their laps. It's confusing.

[@lordology4815]

I reckon we must be missing a piece of the story, also I think parents who have treated their children poorly would try and hold on to some of the good memories to help them cope, at least that’s how I interpreted that scene with Thor and Sif!

[@Eszra]

@@lordology4815 i agree now that you say it.

[@thefatherinthecave943]

@@lordology4815 abusers don’t HATE, they abuse because it’s all they know.

[@lilchaos9212]

Thor and Sif probably grew more abusive the older Magni and Modi got because they were becoming grown men. Sif knows they did their boys wrong, and wants to not remember the aggressive, angry men that they made them into but the sweet boys they used to be. They were probably around Thrúd's age when the abuse got really bad. It was probably both a mixture of them trying to impress Odin (Thor especially), and taking out their frustrations and guilt over things on their lads.

[@W1ckedshort]

So just as Thor, having lost his sons due to his lifestyle, swore to be better for his last child, so did Kratos. Poetic.

[@lordology4815]

Very much so. 👌

[@samsongao587]

So... Sif and Thor are basically to blame for the deaths of their sons. Sif and Thor should never have shifted blame on kratos and Atreus if they knew their parental abuse was the cause.

[@lordology4815]

They just didn't want to face the truth, which can be a hard thing to admit for gods like them!

[@victora.1329]

People will rationalize anything to keep their world intact

[@imed-ha77]

Kratos is a stranger to the Scandinavian lands, then he confronts the gods of these lands and attacks Asgard, yes he is innocent

[@williamnixon3994]

@@imed-ha77 Don't forget that was precipitated by Baldur showing up at their front door looking for a Giant, and then deciding to pick a fight with Kratos after coming to the obvious but erroneous conclusion. Kratos didn't want smoke, the smoke just came to him

[@penguinsmovies]

I always found this rather weird that kratos didn't speak up If you think about it kratos was raised the same way by the Spartans never praised beaten constantly and turned into nothing more than a machine of war. I know Odin and his kids were not quite the same but still there are parallels in their upbringings.

[@lordology4815]

Very good point, maybe that's why Kratos felt like he found it hard to judge Thor, as he saw a lot of his old self in him!

[@samwallaceart288]

"Atreus is no Spartan. I would *keep it* that way."

[@dannymaurice5543]

This adds a lot to the intro between kratos and thor scene because despite bringing the mead and pouring one out for Kratos. Doesn't drink any himself

[@lordology4815]

One of the reasons why I love all of these conversations in God of War, as they add so much detail to the plot!

[@Death_by_Inches]

Kratos can't help but exclaim in delight upon hearing his favorite word regarding his son. 0:41 "Discipline" Kratos: HRAGHH!!

[@lordology4815]

As soon as Angrboda said that Atreus needed discipline, Kratos was like 'you're perfect for my son'

[@sp1cty]

That berserker tomb was the bane of my existence

[@lordology4815]

😂😂🤣I feel that bro!

[@saurophaganax_0]

Modi was specially fucked up tho. I'll never forget that little conversation we overhear about him "wanting the boy" and Magni telling him "what is the matter with you?" Idk mae, like... That sounded way too weird.

[@OneEyedCloud01]

He wanted for some reason to make him his "brother". Probably to mirror his dynamic between him and Magni, with Atreus being the little brother being abused and belittled.

[@DLxxx]

I think Modi just wanted someone to vent his never-ending frustration on and continue the cycle if abuse. Though for some reason I also get the sense he wanted a new "brother" to fill the void Magni left when he died (he WAS grieving pretty hard about that afterward), or perhaps to lesson the blow when he went to report back to his father?

[@zacharyhawley1693]

I shudder to imagine child abuse divine edition.

[@DeathMessenger1988]

Look at Ares and Thor, then at Kratos, Hercules and every Demigod who has unfortunate enough to be sired by Zeus or most Olympians. That clear enough a picture?

[@eddienunez-hernandez1604]

Clearer than glass my friend

[@meldrickedwards1892]

Man, I kinda wish we got to see a bit more of Magni and Modi.

[@lordology4815]

It definitely carries more weight knowing some more of their backstory!

[@jlit5215]

Yeah, With the depth this game adds to that family it makes you look back at how in the previous they were just bosses…

[@somerandomguyfromtheintern480]

So Thor getting drunk and beating his son to a pulp was a wake up call, I guess

[@bluethan806]

Bro's flabbergasted and honestly so am I

[@vexxama]

I feel like there was more to modi than just a messed up son seeking approval from his violent father. I can’t remember his exact words but I remember thinking he was weird and that there was more going on we didn’t see, beyond Thor beating him.

[@lordology4815]

Very true bro!

[@ajwatcher]

I feel like we could be seeing more. Of Thor. And his family. Something to show he's not just a depressed brute. That last battle with Thor with his comment - of how Atreus could make things better and anger... it's like there's more we're not seeing.

[@lordology4815]

Brooo that is literally one of my main issues with Ragnarök that Thor wasn't given enough time to explore who he is. I actually made a video recently saying this very thing: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aV7HY3igp8ybq5o

[@lucasalejaga1175]

What I find exciting in fiction is you meet these strong and badass antagonistic characters in the stories but you will find out later they are vulnerable, have a sad backstory and humanized also.

[@lordology4815]

Very true man, it makes games and stories like this an absolute pleasure to experience!

[@diegooleas9335]

Kraits went from killing all the Greek gods , to regret for killing just one in ragnarok (aside from Odin since sindri swung the hammer lol) love this character development

[@lordology4815]

Even Kratos from GoW 2018 has changed quite a lot compared to how he is in Ragnarok!

[@MetroXLR]

He even got mad at Atreus for killing Modi, stating: "There are consequences for killing a god." Kratos is a very different man from where we last saw him in GoW3.

[@diegooleas9335]

@@MetroXLR yes ! Like when he does kill a regular monster it's brutal which is classic GOW but the gods he's fought hes been careful not to go 100% unless Atreus is threatened, then dad mode pops in which I approve of haha

[@JnEricsonx]

@@MetroXLR Seriously, there's a scene in Stargate where Christopher might as well be doing a audition for Kratos!

[@20_foot_burmese_pyth0n]

Even GoW is plagued by the worst villain of them all: *Generational trauma*

[@olympicthunder9054]

Even Gods are not exempt from the pain of child loss

[@lordology4815]

Very true bro!

[@BlackSalamander439]

Mimir: I know you didn’t have an easy childhood. Kratos literally carrying him: 🗿

[@lordology4815]

😂

[@oentrepreneur]

Tbh there was no need for the writers to add this scene. Because they already pointed it out to us through mimir's stories that Odin is pure evil, and adding that Odin made Thor's childhood difficult so he would also be difficult on his sons is understandable. But why did they have to make Sif an abusive and alcoholic mother?

[@lordology4815]

I think the purpose of the story is to amplify the fact that Thor could’ve chosen to be a better father to his kids, instead he chose to repeat the cycle, which are both recurring themes in God of War! I actually liked that detail that Sif wasn’t a good mum, it adds more depth and complexity to the characters, and it would’ve been really boring if she was always the good protective parent, whereas this way they both have flaws to overcome and to ‘be better’!

[@monad5140]

"Imagine learning discipline by having **HUAAGH** thrashed into you time and again."

[@lordology4815]

Hahahahah!

[@Clorgisclorg]

It's very well seen that the death of her boys had a profound effect on Sif. That was likely the turning point of her having enough of Odin's effect on her family. Anything that had a shred of him in it had to go. The drinking, the abuse, the belittling to be better.

[@lordology4815]

Very true, definitely helped Thor rethink his life and how he wanted to treat Thrud!

[@Ahmed-gh9hm]

In the 2018 god of war, Sindri says they’re half brother! But Sif kept talking like they’re both her sons?? Continuity plot holes?

[@lordology4815]

Interesting point!

[@Ghaltouni]

Yes

[@flap.d.jack247]

They probably are both her sons lol

[@viperakmal]

I wonder why... In a way, I feel that Mimir's line somehow intended to how the current society are... Like boys/men. Are treated cruelly by the double-standard worlds compare girls/women.

[@Ben-jl2rh]

Because it is, and sometimes the opposite is true. My sister's where given a free pass, but I had to be disciplined and got in trouble for any little thing. I turned out relatively ok, but my sister's are both violent and drug addicts. My parents never cared about them, and let them do whatever they wanted, but my mother especially spoiled them. I on the other hand never got addicted to anything, and I just left them all for my own health.

[@evantambolang3052]

@@Ben-jl2rh same here, only instead they become succesful and I'm still struggling finding a job

[@Ben-jl2rh]

@@evantambolang3052 Good luck on getting a job brother, I hope your life gets better. Just know that karma does exist.

[@kusalg]

Mimir's line is basically about toxic masculinity in its purest definition. He almost said it himself: "Poisonous definition of manhood", enforced by none other than the men that should have been fighting it, Thor and his father before him (nevermind Sif who also did the same). The writing is very clever and both of the new games revolve around the "We must be better" line. Kratos is the paragon of this, showing how much he's changed, and characters represent what happens when you don't strive to be better, Odin, Thor, even Freya at the start

[@predalien1413]

You ran away.

[@rickysalazar5502]

Now in my opinion Magni and Modi were not truly evil they just followed orders and love to fight that's all but yes they try to kill Kratos and boy but only by the order of there older peers

[@roarytheromanarcanine]

I love how Mimir really wishes the best for Thor and Sif despite the former being the guy who killed most of Mimir’s giant friends.

[@lordology4815]

It reminds me of that Tupac quote "I wanna see you eat, just not at my table"

[@nirjhar4803]

To this day I still feel bad for the way Modi went out... His last moments were spent with him believing his father and possibly the rest of his family hated him.

[@lordology4815]

Very true bro :(

[@tvman250]

Sheesh bro. Didn’t think Magni and Modi had THAT bad. That’s tough.

[@lordology4815]

Very interesting to hear that they did, Atreus was lucky that Kratos wanted to be better.

[@buzzlightyearpfp7641]

the kratos shout got me

[@lordology4815]

😂😂

[@khaidiratz7958]

0:41 yo Kratos sneeze during emotional moment

[@lordology4815]

It made me jump while playing, because I had my speakers blasting lol

[@GustavoSilva-ny8jc]

In my case my mom did the beating, pretty messed up version of teaching "discipline". But with her it was probably more like "quiet the fuck down and get out of my way!". And my father did all the drinking. Hey, who let Santa monica get inspired by my family?!

[@lordology4815]

Sorry to hear that bro, I hope things have improved for you!

[@GustavoSilva-ny8jc]

@@lordology4815 Thanks, things changed a lot, when you become older you can finally search strength on your own.

[@EmptyMan000]

@@GustavoSilva-ny8jc More like not endure the same abuse you did as a child. As adults you have to live with your own choices now, and can choose to avoid the abuse you suffered. Has nothing to do with strength. Just the resolve to change.

[@joshuafarmer3135]

This dialogue reminds me of the scene at the beginning of the game when Thor and Odin are at Kratos’ house. Odin immediately remarks about Thor’s dead sons and calls them “useless” right in front of their grieving father. Throughout the whole game, Thor is the only one of Odin’s sons whom the Allfather constantly berates and belittles openly, whether in front of his enemies (Kratos and Atreus) or in front of his own family (Sif, Thrud, and Heimdall). At least Thor’s trying to make for it with Thrud. And here I thought Zeus was the one with “worst father in the history of fathers” award, Odin takes to a whole new level.

[@lordology4815]

@@joshuafarmer3135 yeah Odin is abusive as and is probably one of the best villains in the series!

[@josueorgoaway]

00:42 that scared the crap out of me

[@lordology4815]

Every time I go to free roam his scream gets me hahahah!

[@peace2033]

When you realize Sif is like 15 or 16 when her brothers are like in there 30s or 40s.

[@Chrysobubulle]

The game and most players seem very happy to free Atreus from any wrongdoing. But it’s Atreus who killed Modi. And prevented him from having a redemption. It’s not Thor, nor Odin, nor Sif that did that: just Atreus

[@lordology4815]

Interestingly Kratos didn't what Atreus to kill him in that moment, as it made him weak and not in control of his emotions.

[@dinsdag6juli2010]

Great. I love words like 'flabbergasted' and 'poisonous manhood' in my games about mythology. Thanks, SB Inc.

[@lordology4815]

@@dinsdag6juli2010 There’s definitely a lot of “modern” colloquialisms in Ragnarok and it’s what I see heaps of people pointing out, though in my opinion Ragnarok has far more concerning issues than that. Sweet Baby in general just seems to be warping every beloved franchise they get their hands on, but thankfully there’s people willing to call them out.

[@mapoking5087]

I just wanna bring up a small detail that I absolutely LOVE. At the start of the game, when Odin sits down at the table and drinks the meed out of Thor's cup, he points to him and says "And you're no fun." He was expecting Thor to bring good, strong meed, but was only disappointed by the weak sauce. Thor was probably not even gonna drink out of his cup anyway casue he was gonna offer Atreus THE SAME CUP

[@mapoking5087]

This leads to my headcanonn that when Thor heard about the death of Magni, he began drinking heavily out of depression and ,seeing how he's the angry type or drunk, he began beating Modi in his rage

[@lordology4815]

That actually makes so much sense, great observations bro!

[@GustavoSilva-ny8jc]

0:14 Uuuhhh my type of woman! (When you take the drinking part, i don't like alcohol). Quite surprising Sif is like this actually.

[@lordology4815]

Yeah, after meeting her as Atreus then hearing this story, it was interesting the way that Mimir describes her!

[@ebusive]

I think as you learned more about Thor as a character you realize why Kratos risked injury or worse to try and get through to him, especially during their last fight. He saw his old self in Thor and wanted to save him. In the end he did. Thor decided to break the cycle of abuse, and be better...and Odin killed him for it.

[@lordology4815]

It was very poetic!

[@martinarguelles165]

I thought sif seemed off in terms of how she paired with thor but with that context it makes sense. They're essentially the party animal couple but didnt grow up enough to raise their kids properly. And it eventually made magni and modi who they were in 2018.

[@lordology4815]

Well said!

[@Coldha1899]

You know its interesting if you stay on the sled to fully listen to what mimir has to say

[@burrito4614]

sif did end up being a good mom in the end tho

[@lordology4815]

She sure did!

[@MoltenUprisingMK]

The way Mimir tells it, Thor makes Kratos look like a perfect parent.

[@lordology4815]

Yeah, seems like all gods have a lot of Daddy issues!

[@shaheerkhan6815]

Never understood how both Thor and Siff mourn their Boys in Ragnarok, but Thor talks about Modi the most, so does Thrud... Magni isnt mentioned at all, like you never hear Magni being mentioned as much. what?.. did they just not give a shit about him as much? or is his death directly at the hands of Kratos considered a good enough send off to not mourn while Modi ran back to Asgard afraid and was beaten black an blue by his father so he went back and got killed by Atreus on his knees...

[@lordology4815]

It's interesting because I actually think that Thor liked Magni over Modi and Kratos makes that observation during their first fight!

[@jlit5215]

Yeah that was weird. They don’t mention magni at all, wonder if that was an oversight

[@bignick2k215]

I always got the sense that Sif didn’t really agree with Odin’s ways, but was too afraid to ever speak out against him. Thor was obviously abused by Odin his entire life, hence why he is messed up. After the death of their sons, it seemed that Thor had a serious wake up call. Sif was definitely devastated about her sons, but was probably relieved that Thor began trying to change for the better.

[@lordology4815]

Sif was living in fear for a long time that's for sure! But Magni & Modi were both kind of unredeemable especially Modi since he had a "thing" for Atreus because he was a kid if I remember correctly.

[@eduardomagana3858]

Not only were Magni and Modi adults by this point, but they were originally destined to survive Ragnarok. However, thanks to Kratos, that fate's been broken just like Baldur's neck and it's making everyone more cautious.

[@lordology4815]

A lot of people tend to forget that Magni & Modi were supposed to survived Ragnarök, good catch!

[@thomasnolastname8734]

Mimir basically confirmed Sif can outdrink Thor

[@dlrldnjs04]

I guess Sif learned her own mistake how to raise kid through loseing both her son and changed to be a good mother. But Thor struggles to change because he has a relationship with his own father... he love his father even he is even treat as a pawn...

[@haydenmaskell8522]

Their boss fight in New Game + for me is torture as it took me 50 attempts to even get close to beating the 3rd phase

[@lordology4815]

Yep lol

[@kazama195]

The part that gets me the most is that they're aesir. Losing your sons in battle was a good thing. As Odin said "dying is what we aesir live for". But considering he was the most afraid to die it seems like the toxic masculinity brought on by aesir culture existed so people fought and died for odin. Those who die in battle get to go to valhalla. Anyone else goes to hel. Even the old. You'd think thor and sif would be ecstatic that their sons are now immortal warriors of the einherjar. Nah jk valhalla is for mortals not gods. So all that was just so your first son could die for nothing. Then beat your next son damn near to death. Magni was when Sif changed. Modi was when Thor HAD to change else she wouldnt be with him. Next up will be their daughter, and when she's dead for odin, just make more kids and kill them too. Yea i'd give up drinking too

[@lordology4815]

Good points bro!

[@noblesseoblige319]

Mimir has massive balls to say atreus had a rough childhood NEXT TO KRATOS

[@lordology4815]

Yeah that made me chuckle lol 😂 though Kratos would never reveal how bad he had it.

[@aquabunny1992]

One can have a rough childhood, and one can have it worse, doesn't take away from the person who comparitively didnt have it as badly

[@noblesseoblige319]

@@aquabunny1992 Kratos is also directly responsible for his kid's childhood

[@aquabunny1992]

@@noblesseoblige319 he's responsible for some of his childhood. Atreus was sick a lot of his early life, and he had a father who wasn't around very much.

[@noblesseoblige319]

@@aquabunny1992 which is his fault. And he admits as much. (the not being there, not the sickness. Although that may be his fault as well, if it's the same reason he's sick in 2018 God of War)

[@chadwickdavis8529]

After playing ragnarok and understanding thor better I think I know another reason why he beat him aside from leaving his brother for dead. No doubt he was drunk but it’s easy to tell thor hates himself and also that modi looks so much like him ig there’s some thing that reminded him of his self as well. But that’s just my theory

[@lordology4815]

Thats actually a great point and makes a lot of sense! Magni does look a lot more like SIf, which perhaps doesn't remind of his own failures but of his beautiful missus!