Minato vs Tobirama | Was I Wrong?

And, we’re back again, with this matchup, the most controversial topic of the franchise with potentially the exception of Itachi vs Pain, which I also have a video on. However here, I’ve always stood firmly on one side, however I have some to admit many mistakes and bad lines of scaling I onced used and now I can finally come to the best conclusion for you guys to determine who would actually win between, the second and fourth hokage’s respectively. Both combatants are mainly just being discussed as their alive versions, with some Edo feats included if they can backscale and what not, such as Tobirama getting his Edo feats
Time Stamps:
Introduction - 0:00
Alive Tobirama - 1:51
Madara’s statement - 7:53
Edo Tobirama, Juubito - 11:32
Minato’s daze - 15:47
Higher Minato - 22:40
Faster FTG - 25:08
Arsenals - 39:28
www.tiktok.com/@virhtue
Copyright Disclaimer under Section 107 of the copyright act 1976, allowance is made for fair use for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favour of fair use.
#minato #minatonamikaze #minatoedit #tobirama #tobiramasenju

[@Virhtue]

Other Minor Things you guys may want me to address, that I just didn’t due to the video length going a little long, and they were sort of awkward, to put in if I’m being honest Cee Stating V1 Ayy is on Par With Minato?! When Cee states this, he states specifically that when Raikage gets amped up, his reaction speed and nerve transmission is on par with even Konoha’s Yellow Flash, referring to Jonin Minato (who fought in the third Great War). Now there are a few things to address here, firstly, is that Cee has not a clue Jonin Minato’s reaction speed. We know this as his age wouldn’t line up to be placed and war and he directly states, that the Fourth Great Ninja war is the first war he’s ever been in (ch. 515). I also addressed that Jonin Minato and Hokage Minato differ in strength, whether you take the synopsis statement, the fourth databook’s wording or the second databook implying Minato kept using his command ability even once Hokage. So at best, being generous to Cee and the Raikage, this could fit with the narrative that the Raikage Ayy, at peak speed, has trained enough to be on the level of Jonin Minato, to which Naruto needs to surpass and then obviously surpass Hokage Minato with KCM2. Minato Cutting The Eight Tails, is good AP?! No, this feat is fairly exaggerated, when you account that he cut Bee’s partial tentacle you have to hold a level at which this tentacle in specific scales to, and a level of note at that. To which we don’t, you can see that Jonin Ayy was capable of cutting a similar tentacle during a Flashback. So no Minato slicing the tentacle is a super viable AP feat, you still say that him attempting to Slice Bee as he did, that’s something he does in character. Tobirama’s Water Lance?! The Guide: One Decade, One Hundred Ninja states that Tobirama possessed a water lance, not shown in his battle against Hiruzen, the Second Hokage. Surely there is nothing that can’t be cut. So this could imply that as of the publishing date of this guide, This Lance can cut through anything. This guide came out right after the Pain arc I believe, so yes this Lance could be a very viable wincon against Minato, if he manages to pull this off. Would Minato Go Sage Mode?! Probably not, Minato in life or death situations does not enter Sage Mode in character. This is likely due to his allocation for the Senjutsu probably not that good as we are unsure at what point Minato began charging up his Senjutsu. So it probably wouldn’t be a super viable option, but I suppose could still come out. Minato One Shot?! You can imply that Minato is of the caliber of Hashirama as, regardless of translation, they all imply of the time of origin the caliber of. Which has to also be in reference to those who battled or helped seal Kurama which is Hashirama, Mito and Madara so it’s that with Minato’s arsenal he could fight on that caliber, I do go much deeper into this in my Solo Minato video, which I recommend! Tobirama’s bullets are greater Madara?! Tobirama fires his water senbon, a jutsu where water is built up in the mouth to fire high speed bullets to then snipe at vital spots, when Tobirama uses this you could say this is one; in character for Tobirama to hold back to where he is appearing to lose, to then use these and catch the opponent offguard just when they are sure of victory. Madara reacts to these bullets, however does use a one arm susanoo guard, with the only similar thing ever used was in his Edo states where the Susanoo aura stopped projectiles. So you could say that These are so potent that Madara was uncomfortable at trying to tank them with his durability (as he was doing that reckless style way too much with the biju) therefore he opted for the Susanoo. Or option two is he wasn’t to just boast on Tobirama’s weakness more, showing his new superiority. Either way, Minato isn’t a tank, once again, so if he would pull this off or Maybe Minato put him close to death and Tobirama was able to catch him off guard, this is a viable wincon for Tobirama.

[@HC-gm4fo]

I don’t think cutting the tail is amazing AP, but it does show it wasn’t just a normal kunai strike like some people believe Just making contact with the tip, sliced it all the way through it, whereas sasuke had to saw all the way through

[@zerotheplug]

I mean Minato did tank juubidara's kick pretty well

[@vaughnjackson6297]

Minato vs tobirama in my opinion is a stalemate.Mimato is faster with the ftg but tpbirama is using the ftg as well. The ftg can catch others that are not using the ftg but can it can someone just as fast???? What you should have pointed out is who's jutsu is best for laying traps at each teleport point and who will outsmart the other. In conclusion a fight between minato and tobirama will end when one outsmart the other

[@Virhtue]

@@vaughnjackson6297 ooh interesting… haven’t heard this one before

[@DatsLegitness]

@@vaughnjackson6297No because Minato activated sage mode in 1 second then punches a *HOLE* in Tobirama. Also Minato has the summoning justu so he can have his creatures take care of Tobirama & THEY ALL UTILIZE SENJUTSU

[@___________0Z0X]

“ i’m an anime power scaler, not a fucking physicist.” Virtue, 2024.

[@sageofthickcalves]

Also worth noting that Minato mentions having to time up his teleportation against Obito, making it pretty clear he’s slowing down to match Obito’s speed

[@Virhtue]

Exactly! I don’t get that misconception, his whole idea what Kamui was too dangerous to mess around with. He wasn’t aware of how it worked slough he immediately noted it was superior to his own and only knew one aspect, he can’t phase and attack at the same time. To which he then needed a timed MUTUAL strike, in which he did and then blitzed him!

[@IamFromBeyond_]

Faxxxxxxx bro

[@someweirdguy]

Slowing down? How tf did you get that? If he doesnt time it right obito will phase through. Its not because minato is faster.

[@sageofthickcalves]

@@someweirdguy He has to outspeed Obito just enough to be able to counter his Kamui, which means he’d have to slow down enough to make Obito think he’s gotten him to force him to materialize and then perception blitz him with FTG. This is why the chapter note says, “Minato wins the battle of speed!” He’s very clearly adjusting to Obito in order to set up the FTG level 2, and he can’t adjust his speed faster than it is, so he must be adjusting it in the other direction, aka slowing down.

[@mookiestewart3776]

@@sageofthickcalveshmmm this is an interesting tale!! I always figured he sped his ftg UP for the level 2 since it’s not really “instant” as shown in the war arc by saying “clones will reduce the speed of ftg” . I admit you might be right but I still think he could have been increasing his speed since the word “up” was used. But I’ll have to reread and think about it lol

[@grantwilliams93]

Loved your line about the Kinkaku squad being 20 "iruka to itachi lvl" characters Ppl constantly try to overhype or specify they were 20 s-rank Akatsuki lvl ninja or something and its just stated nowhere in any source. Its not an anti feat or a good feat. It's ambiguity makes it nearly irrelevant. The 1st encounter at least has a bit to go on.

[@Virhtue]

It’s just “highly skilled Kinkaku unit” not S-rank, Takumo Hyuga is highly skilled but you probably don’t recognize his name

[@grantwilliams93]

@@Virhtue exactly! I wish we knew, but we just don't know. Also, Takumo is the guy on the recon squad? Idk 😅

[@Archer170]

Don’t know how Tobirama would call a Chunin highly skilled ninja when hes a kage with a stacked team

[@DatsLegitness]

You forgot to mention that Tobirama was focused on the TSO while Minato didn’t know it was on him yet. Madara states Tobirama watches from the shadows then makes his move. So once Minato was about to grab it it’s logical to assume that Tobirama had already started moving to grab the orb because he was watching from the outside. Also Minato didn’t even have to reach his hand out he could have just teleported it with chakra

[@ZaharJudah]

Baseless

[@Virhtue]

Yeah, there is one shot that’s almost like a perspective shot

[@espritsaincorpsain]

Yep true

[@kelvinallen9327]

Shinobi's are supposed to be clever. Jubito was on a diff level, tobirama, etc needed to be careful with him.

[@Noblesavage31]

You turn around still basically do the same thing and debunk his feats and say “not all that great” placing a tag at that speed unnoticed as far above anything minato shown 😅

[@zerotheplug]

O boy I've been waiting for this 🙏🏼

[@Virhtue]

Glad to hear that

[@jassyokayy]

been waiting for this ever since you alluded to making this video omg

[@Virhtue]

Sorry it took so long my man, KZbin was bugging on a few things, but I hope you enjoy it

[@jassyokayy]

@@Virhtue liked it a lot, good job 🙇🏾‍♀️

[@matthiasrauert8397]

Great vid. The work u put in here rly shines through. Amazing to me how a series that ended nearly 10 years ago still has a community which can produce excellent new creators like u.

[@Virhtue]

Seriously love to hear this my man❤️

[@derekseago9647]

ive been looking forward to this video

[@derekseago9647]

after watching the video i just wanna say you did an amazing job and covered basically every topic you could cover and you cane to an non biased conclusion

[@ConsoleSoftaim]

Another virhtue banger

[@Virhtue]

Thank you my man!

[@Youngsickbacchus]

The first encounter with kinkaku and ginkaku was an anbush on not just Tobirama but also the second raikage who also was left near death and somehow they recognized the mark of the 3rd raikage. I don’t think it’s any more likely that Tobirama killed either of them, especially if in a close to fair 2v2 he still lost

[@joshfarrow9707]

What the hell your understanding of the FTG being movement and not teleportation is mind blowing its a space-time type jutsu.

[@Virhtue]

Yeah you know I also shower seven statements stating it has movement, maybe think about those before you blatantly target the physics even after I regarded those as supplemental information. Don’t cherry pick

[@Arcadia_warlic]

Well said. There is also the fact that A, Sasuke, and Itachi use Body Flicker in combat directly. Some sources even list Obito running through Hashirama and Tobirama as Body Flicker, so if Body Flicker is not combat speed that further invalidates that feat, ironically.

[@Virhtue]

That I’m saying the bomb feat has so many negative implications towards it

[@2_loko]

What's up V, been extremely busy lately so I won't be able to watch this anytime soon but I'm sure it was a good vid🔥 And for you lil guys speaking on me in the comments, we all know none of you will run this topic with me.

[@DatsLegitness]

You say the same shit everytime that’s why you always lose. You pull up on virtue video just to say “I won’t watch it right now I’ll choose to watch later into the future” like that really matters

[@espritsaincorpsain]

You are too busy to watch the video but you knew there’s people talking about you in comments ? Lol

[@trapmatrix5942]

I’ll gladly run this topic with you. Minato wins

[@2_loko]

@@espritsaincorpsain This vid is 45 minutes long lil bro, I’m going to watch it when I have the time to actually focus on it and hear out his arguments.

[@zerotheplug]

Yh right

[@bluedeath657]

I just realized that hiruzen calls yamato by his name even though thats a codename tsunade gave him after hiruzen died. Why would she reuse a codename that doesnt make sense.

[@dylanbarrett508]

so if im understanding correctly you are saying flying thundergod is kinda like slipspace from halo where they open up a portal and travel in another dimension where distance covered in there translates to greater distance in the original world(like with the nether in minecraft where moving 1 block is equivalent to 8 in the overworld), so you are using space time manipulation but it still requires physical movement within the sub space before re-entering the original space?

[@kinghoenn3478]

It is always way more difficult to create a brand new jutsu. Tobirama created many very powerful jutsu during his lifetime so of course people are gonna tinker with it and improve on it. Take Minato. He created Rasengan and everybody since then has learned to push past the base form and give it a new twist. Edo Tensei is the perfect example of generation advancements. Tobimaru created it. Orochimaru improved on it. Kabuto then took it to an even higher level.

[@Chibuike16]

I just love the "Minato daze" argument. It really demonstrates that Tobirama fans are not the only ones who damage control. I'm not here to debate which is superior but I will say that whenever it comes to Minato, fans love wish-casting. When it comes to his opponents, they are all treated with mass scrutiny. Just an observation

[@Virhtue]

I could see that point but many Tobirama fans question if moving from point A to point B is speed?

[@Noblesavage31]

@@Virhtuebaseless when it can’t be measured like a foot race

[@samwolf1452]

Great video, never doubt your opinion

[@Virhtue]

I appreciate that!

[@hobbyhorse5848]

“Your Shunshin is even better than mine fourth!” -some guy, idk who. Probably not Tobirama

[@UberRoot3294]

Lets begin!

[@Virhtue]

Let’s do it

[@UberRoot3294]

After watching this video, i feel like the only way that could keep all the feat and the information consistent with accepting the fact that Minato would win is Minato being just a fucked up matchup for Tobirama, even if Tobirama would fare better against other oponents than Minato, Minato is kinda exceeding him in his own game. Superior chakra, physicality or arsenal won't make a difference

[@DatsLegitness]

Sage mode Minato has more chakra than Tobirama

[@UberRoot3294]

@@DatsLegitness I agree, i'm talking about Base Minato exclusively

[@zerotheplug]

@@UberRoot3294 base Minato out of chakra pull half of the nine tails and still had more chakra remember you can only pull as much chakra as you have

[@UberRoot3294]

@@zerotheplug Where did you get that statement?

[@zerotheplug]

@@UberRoot3294 what statement the reaper death?

[@DrJackShelton]

Best discussion I’ve seen on flying raîjīn in Ages man! Most impressive… Dunno if I disagree with much of anything… But here the winner is likely the person with more impressive brainscaling than powerscaling…. All it takes is one of the techniques used in the war and he could, if surviving the first strike and seeing the seals Maybe instantly know how to use his improved variant of FTG… But then any Edo paperbomb clone shenanigans getting teleported through his FTG may be game over… But can you send an Èdō tènséī animal stuck with tandem paperbombs to someone else’s kūnaî maybe even whilst they’re holding it like a reverse summoning through their seal like the round robbin or whatever multilingual wordplay is going on there hehe I think they’re more comparable but Mínàtō died way too young… Not being fast enough to save Kākáshí’s squad that day is what’s so sad about his kánnëbí bridge victory over…was it 1000 or so stone ninjas? Man that’s embarrassing for the stone when one dude deletes thousands… I think it’s more like fookt on sight… if you see the man in battle as an enemy you are more than lucky to remain alive… But we never saw how abusively Tōbírámâ uses Èdō Tènséī and tandem paperbombs which the combos for that with FTG are kinda unbelievable… All it takes is one ally getting saved with teleporting tandem paperbomb clone shenanigans and you could have tandem explosives at all the seals potentially… Though if alive or Èdō does the chákrä cost of the explosion become a big chákrâ cost or is it lighter than a Kūnaî? The winner is whoever is written to notice enough to know enough to use all the right moves in the right order without any foolish mistakes and I feel like Mínàtō’s willingness to try stuff and youth are why he may not be capable of knowing well enough the harsh battle expectations that a Sènjū might have especially if they’re wary because they know you’ve improved their own moves… But how fast does tobirama notice all this? Pretty quick during the war but by end they’re basically mates or even relatives… hmmmmmmm….. I mean we all thought that one back in the day with the imaginary clan but looks that have tsunádé relative or something hair colour… but that’s granny tsūnádé theory territory isn’t it ha… he feels more like a Non Official Nephew or something… but I’m just speculating now on the lineage and quite clear talents in eachothers moves being exhibited down genetic line arguably if you count the first jūtsū in the series’ forbidden variant being how it’s tied together…. Just an idea though right? : D

[@Doshanko]

Minato is also has a sensory ability comparable to Tobirama as he was able to sense Naruto fighting with Kurama, and this is before he tapped into KCM.

[@Virhtue]

Solid point I thought about bringing that up in a senjutsu point I made in the pinned comment

[@Tempest1018]

Bro finally saw the light

[@kelvinallen9327]

Sage mode minato got blitz by jubi madara, but now base no hands edo minato is around 8th gates guy 😮??

[@marv51]

Perception ≠ reaction

[@Virhtue]

Bc he went after madara is combat speed, he just had to think for his neurotransmitters to fire, same as Tobirama reacting to RSM Madara

[@kelvinallen9327]

​@@Virhtue If tobirama is uncertainly fast enough to put the bombs on jubito, so how did the FTG mark got on him?? Also, you forgot that the hokages were sacrificing themselves taking advantage of their edo bodies to analyse jubito. So its obvious tobi allowed himself to get hit.

[@ImPapehungry]

@@kelvinallen9327he’s ratting

[@Noblesavage31]

Minato is nowhere near guy speed he intercepted the kunai by moving in a sub space that’s completely diff

[@manny9191]

one thing i will say and its not a bad thing but its a "technicality" madara has seen tobirama in fights afterwards as he knows about the edo tensei and the speed feat would likely be a combination of base speed AND FR. otherwise he wouldnt know about it, additionally, madara and hashirama are toptier fighters who can read moves, its teamwork that allows them to react to the others moves. this isnt a criticism but more of a logical look at things. like how tobirama know naruto was ready to use sage rasengan on obito

[@Virhtue]

You can prove that he saw Tobirama’s Edo Tensei after he died, it had to of been before bc he copied the signs and that was warring states

[@manny9191]

@Virhtue he would have had to have seen it when he joined and made the leaf. Because tobirama didn't have edo during the warring states, would have likely been after. More likely used in the first war

[@Jusaguywithbrain]

Madara statement is consistent tho it signifies even after madara keft village fought hashirama etc he still believed that tobirama was the fastest of his generation

[@mladen5140]

Tobirama still wins tho, good video tho

[@Virhtue]

I understand, it’s a good fight, what do you think gives him the edge?

[@zerotheplug]

Delusional

[@mladen5140]

@@Virhtue nah Im jk, Minato got it due to speed as u explained but I think ppl do underrate Tobirama

[@ImPapehungry]

@@mladen5140 Minato lost to a 14 year old kid.

[@zerrotiii7135]

@@sinner35320 s rank plus gold and silver brother minato would 100% lose to em too tf your talking about LOL

[@CH1C4N0444]

What this video shows is that people can change their mind on things after thinking about it more or letting thing simmer more...crazy people can change their mind over time, wild the comments can't seem to grasp that

[@Virhtue]

That’s very true, it’s a wild thing to grow I suppose

[@thomasheaden3376]

LETS GOOOOOOOO

[@Virhtue]

Thank you, my brother🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🐐🐐🐐

[@newfolder6137]

Minato straight up curbstomps Tobirama. They are not comparable.

[@fbafoundationalbuck-broken6011]

because you said so?

[@newfolder6137]

@@fbafoundationalbuck-broken6011 No, because it's a manga/databook fact

[@fbafoundationalbuck-broken6011]

@@newfolder6137 what are you crying about? and data books been inaccurate for decades.

[@newfolder6137]

@@fbafoundationalbuck-broken6011 again, you want to take it from the databook or from the manga, the conclusion is the same, Minato is way above the likes of Tobirama lol

[@fbafoundationalbuck-broken6011]

@@newfolder6137 manga never said Minato is stronger than tobirama, you got your own fanfiction you are trying to past off as fact.

[@everdream4200]

9:03 Why did you not address this statement that directly proposes that even now Tobirama isn't at full power? I dont know you and am just discovering your channel but statements like "lets be generous to Tobirama" are annoying. Lastly, why do you seem so hesitant to claim Tobirama as the fastest of his generation surpassing both Hashirama and Madara? Am not fishing for an argument just want to know.

[@Tiegoat]

He probably won't answer to you and like other comments wanking minato

[@ImPapehungry]

Minato lost to a 14 year

[@kelvinallen9327]

Its easy to say tobirams shouldn't be caught off guard, but thats the issue, we dont know what happened. Any thing could have happened. 👍

[@B00MR0ASt3D]

Gotta be a set up for an April fools prank 😂 this was master splinter level ratting

[@marv51]

Debunk it

[@Virhtue]

Why do you think that my friend?

[@B00MR0ASt3D]

@@Virhtue Cuz I have appreciated your content in the past. But this video forsakes so much of your previous logic when you already had the topic nailed. You did not even successfully debunk your self from the past. There are several massive contradictions from what you are saying now and what you have said in your old videos, and the complete 180 of interpretation is not even addressed on a lot of these points. But what’s worse is that you were very arrogant, condescending, omitting information I know that you are aware of, making massive assumptions/reaches that you know are fallacious and either disingenuous or flat out wrong on a lot of points. But the part that makes no sense is you referring to people who disagreed with you as “ brainless” “troglodytes” “completely disingenuous” “haven’t seen the series” ect. as if you were not fully on board with nearly all of the positions you are slandering now only a few months ago. You are pretty much saying that four months ago when you were saying that Tobirama was over KCM2 Minato, that you yourself were a dumb, ignorant, disingenuous rat. I’m not sure how you can start the video by saying that you see both sides, then proceed to act like you have to be completely brain dead to choose Tobirama, then switch right back to saying he only wins 7 out of 10 times, then again saying it’s ridiculous to disagree with you. maybe you are just Monkey D Luffy reaching in an attempt to deliver a take no one has heard yet, and shock us all for the sake of content… but honestly, I hope this is just a joke because to me you have destroyed your credibility with this video.

[@fullercrane1795]

At this point I think they just down playing Tobirama for clicks . Like when someone says a word wrong and you have a hundred people correct it.

[@Virhtue]

I think it’s that Tobirama has been so overrated you have to apply a certain level of criticism

[@Jusaguywithbrain]

Bro saying base minato is kcm 2 becuz he saw him in kcm 2 is like saying minato=jiraiya speed just becuz tsunadensaw jiraiya and Minato in sm Naruto

[@sageofthickcalves]

TALK THAT TALK

[@Virhtue]

You already know

[@OneAboveAll_0]

Fax bro you came back to the good side Minato wins, hes literally a way better version of tobirama

[@Virhtue]

I genuinely do think this matchup is very interesting

[@OneAboveAll_0]

@@Virhtue it certainly is but I still have my boi winning in a close fight

[@someweirdguy]

Tobirama has more versatility. And its his moves. In an actual battle i think tobirama wins. But on paper minato has more destructive power and hax. People just like Minato more. They literally have the same tech but tobiramas a sensory ninja also. They are 2 different types of fighters.

[@ImPapehungry]

@@someweirdguyMinato has sage mode but can’t sense a intruder during his wife’s pregnancy. He’s overrated. Lost to a 14 year old. At least tobirama died during a war

[@someweirdguy]

@@ImPapehungry that was literally the strongest 14 year old in the series other than otsutsuki. But yea sage mode/kmc1 minato is probably closer to tobirama in terms of power

[@whoizray_]

let’s be real we all know they both pale in comparison to kakazu 🗣️

[@___________0Z0X]

How could they get passt his raw durability?!!!??

[@nwk1626]

sasori*

[@espritsaincorpsain]

Kakuzu killed the god of shinobi and stole his heart so yeah

[@nwk1626]

@@espritsaincorpsain something the boruto verse couldn’t do

[@Alphonx]

​@@nwk1626Sasori is a fodder 😭

[@marwyn8152]

Who wins: FTG duo vs Kamui duo?

[@thomasheaden3376]

FINALLLLY…… VIRHTUE HAS COME BACK

[@Virhtue]

You already know

[@manny9191]

Its been shown that the objects going into guiding thunder take time to be absorbed by the seal, so it makes sense that he would blitz it, its massive by the time he arrived it likely finished going through the gate and then of course went out the other end and exploded. just like with the 9 tails beast bomb, it wasnt an instant teleportation.

[@marv51]

What part of the bomb feat being horrible don’t you get 😭

[@DatsLegitness]

Still Tobirama is not beating Minato. Tobirama died to kinkaku. Minato stalemated with 9tails

[@marv51]

@@DatsLegitness did you not watch the video? 😭😭😭

[@zerotheplug]

@@DatsLegitness plus that was a weakened nerfed 14 years old Minato

[@DatsLegitness]

@@zerotheplug I was actually talking about adult Minato where he killed 1/2 of the 9tails (reaper death seal) & he gave the other one life in prison and had his son be able to use 9tails power all he wants because of the seal.

[@Messi-er2df]

You have betrayed the Tobirama agenda

[@Virhtue]

True

[@manny9191]

its a shame to see, the teleportation vs transportation almost gave me a stroke, teleportation is a form of transportation which involves the bending of space time otherwise you cannot teleport so using that as a feat to massively blow up minatos speed was just sad, also saying jonin minato isnt the same speed as hokage minato is fair and correct, but then you implied that the raikage never got faster after that which then throws the origional logic away... kcm minato vs tobirama it goes to minato high diff. but Alive vs Alive and it goes to tobirama high diff, monato base does not have as much chakra as tobirama so will run out first, the difference in speed with both of them in base is not as large as the kcm versions so it will be hard for minato to off guard someone who can react to him, any attempt to mass kunai and teleport around the battlefield will be met with a battlefield filled with water washing the area or a tandem blasting the area, tobirama whilst alive has so many abilities to react and prepare counter measures, by no means will it be easy, hell probably be brought to the brink of death, but i believe hell win. again the kcm vs tobirama, sure. but it was also stated in the date books that they were fighting equally, i dont recall that being mentioned here but people love to bring it up with naruto and sasuke when it says they were fighting equally... it is what it is

[@Virhtue]

I stated that Raikage got faster😭

[@Virhtue]

They work synonymously, they aren’t one in the same

[@SageOfSixVidz]

Mans said Kcm Minato beats Tobirama high diff. Kcm Minato will make 5 shadow clones and flying raijin Tobirama to death NO DIFF💯

[@ImPapehungry]

@@SageOfSixVidz he don’t have Kcm while alive. He loses

[@nwk1626]

28:41 isn’t this guiding thunder?

[@Virhtue]

No, the only time he was going to use guiding thunder was against a TSO

[@flight_knight_]

The issue isn't that Minato beats Tobirama. It's how overhyped each fanbase makes each. Mainly Alive Minato vs Alive Tobirama. Tobirama stans overrate his juubito feats. Minato fans overrate his comparisons to Hashirama, Minato's sage mode, Minato's speed, etc. It's clear they are in the same tier with while having slightly different techniques. You can expect in normal circumstances for Minato to have a slight edge. But nothing crazy where he's unbeatable for Tobirama. You could even argue Tobirama wins based on having better IQ and stamina.

[@Violate..]

Tobirama feats against juubito was insane compared to what a buffed up kcm minato did tho, he just got speed blitz

[@Archer170]

@@Violate..The uchiha fans down play the fuck out of tobiramas feats bruh.Half the shit they discredit from him I can do the same for minatos FTG feats.

[@Robbieuchiha]

I disagree I think alive tobirama is above any version of minato that’s not kcm i agree mostly with Lokos scaling on tobirama I hope you don’t start downplaying tobirama now in videos saying he’d lose to kisame like swagkage I hope you still think even if minato is stronger tobirama is still one of the strongest people in the naruto verse still top 20 like minato

[@HC-gm4fo]

Why do you think he based his entire statement on that one encounter? I don’t think that’s the most likely interpretation.

[@HC-gm4fo]

He’s most likely talking about movement and combat speed, and wouldn’t be more likely that he’s basing it off all the battles and not just that one moment?

[@Virhtue]

I think that is based on that being the most likely assumption as there is only evidence showing a battle prior to EMS, as Madara himself stated Tobirama wasn’t a match for him

[@HC-gm4fo]

@@Virhtue understandable. I’ve always thought he was slightly faster, sharigan precog counters Tobirama by moving more effectively.

[@grantwilliams93]

​@Virhtue we also just don't even know how strong Madara and Izuna actually were at that specific time where izuna died. They could have been under hebi sasuke or pt 1 kakashi for all we know. Or they could have been stronger than Itachi. That whole era is characters scaling to each other with nothing concrete and truly scaleable till EMS Madara fights Hashirama. It's too vague.

[@Virhtue]

@@grantwilliams93 very true

[@397llederson6]

Hey where is it stated the second raikage was murdered?

[@Virhtue]

Like ch527 I think

[@397llederson6]

@@Virhtue Pretty sure it just says Tobirama was in the brink not the second raikage

[@Virhtue]

@@397llederson6 he died prior to the second encounter bc Gin notes Darui has the thirds lightning mark

[@espritsaincorpsain]

It would have been a great and close fight between those 2 legendary shinobis. But as I always stated, Minato wins, probably with difficulty or even miraculously, but there is no way he could lose, he never lost to someone during his prime. Btw nice video!

[@Virhtue]

Thank you my friend

[@ImPapehungry]

He lost to 14 year old obito win he never lost in his prime. How come he didn’t sense him since he’s so strong? Sage mode but can’t sense a intruder?

[@espritsaincorpsain]

@@ImPapehungry shit up hater

[@espritsaincorpsain]

@@ImPapehungry Minagoat > Dumbito

[@Alphonx]

@@ImPapehungry Ignore him, he's just a die hard Midnato fangay who crys everywhere.

[@SatorisYT]

Fuel for the algorithm

[@zerotheplug]

Minato stomps

[@SatorisYT]

@@zerotheplug ? Did I say anything about the matchup? I'm just trying to help the video and the creator out lol

[@zerotheplug]

@@SatorisYT yes but Minato stomps right

[@Virhtue]

This had a lot of hype

[@SatorisYT]

@@zerotheplug I won't say my opinion, I'm staying away from this topic. I already have my hands full with my takes on One Punch Man scaling, I don't need to get into Naruto debates too 😅 I'll say at first I believed Minato stomped in my early days, then I believed Tobirama stomped after getting into his arguments, then I believed it was a close battle that could go either way for a little while before going back to the Tobirama side. Now I'm honestly indifferent. It's been discussed so much and there are so many arguments and debunks from so many people going around that I've kind of lost interest. I will say I think this is a good video.

[@andersonblock1211]

Tobirama team here let’s see how it plays out!

[@Alphonx]

Yeah!🔥

[@derekseago9647]

any arguments for tobiramas side (i doubt there will be any )

[@Virhtue]

Hope you enjoy!

[@Tiegoat]

@@sinner353you're not him lil bro

[@ImPapehungry]

@@sinner353Minato lost to a 14 year old kid.

[@matthiasrauert8397]

So ofc i know this is about scaling but for me the appeal of Tobirama were never his compat abilities but rather how sturdy of a shinobi he was. Comming directly after the gods Hashirama and Madara wich in terms of strength he could never measure up to but still becomming a legend in his own right by using the talents he was given to their fullest, even creating three of the jutsu who were the most influential on the story. Sure we just don't see him as much cause he isn't that relevant to the story compared to characters like Madara or Minato but we also never see him faulter, always doing the best he can in every situation, instead of giving up when he is outmatched. To me he is like a historical person whom the average guy doesn't know much about but as soon as u begin to read into him it becomes apparent how much influence he rly had, like for example take roman Emperors everybody knows about Caesar and Augustus but only if u dig a little deeper u find guys like Vespasian and Hadrian who were every bit as important. Sorry, I just like the guy very much and even though I obviously love scaling am a little pissed about how many people pin the worth of a character only on their strength, not saying u did that but just in general.

[@Noblesavage31]

Seriously people really think guy is not fast from the series, when he is the only character who destroys the ground as he moves, foot catches flame when he moves and could actually punch flames and air cannons from his fist. These appear physical movements. Garra says “his movements are inhuman” thinking that Kaguya can outrun guy is silly

[@Virhtue]

So 6th gate guy is stronger than Isshiki bc he has fire when he punches?!? Awful arguments

[@Noblesavage31]

@@Virhtue isshikis power is other worldly, I’m just saying physically he’s superior to 90% of the characters in the series, take his extreme training for an example. They are able to move and physically do things the normal human wouldn’t be able to, not saying it could beat anyone just stating that you do have that against most folks

[@joshfarrow9707]

Go and get PHD on theoretical physics as you the contex of FTG and wormholes are inaccurate. Ive studied this amd i can tell you that you simplified it too much so it would match Minato being faster.

[@Virhtue]

Why so, I have the literal google definition for the Einstein Rosen Bridge

[@nwk1626]

loko has opps in the chat 😂

[@zerotheplug]

I am his main opp btw I changed my name but I am here

[@Virhtue]

Me and Loko are cool and people think I hate him, I’m not gonna “destroy him”😭

[@MZOver]

The sequel is out!

[@Virhtue]

I suppose so!

[@lycan2494]

tobiraama stomps

[@kaizel2264]

I mean Minato Blitz the raikage @72-96X the Speed of light 😂

[@ZaharJudah]

I had to unsubscribe no way you made this video 😭 , welp we all have our opinions I don’t see why you downplayed every single tobirama feat

[@zerotheplug]

And I just subscribe

[@Virhtue]

Downplayed, I discussed them on why I didn’t follow through them

[@ZaharJudah]

@@Virhtue discussed horrible

[@GRebron]

@@Virhtuethe madara one about tobiramas speed referring to FTG is head canon by definition

[@derekseago9647]

@@ZaharJudah cab you explain at least why you think so

[@ImPapehungry]

They lost to durui because of sage of six path tools not raw power. You ratting

[@Virhtue]

The tools Tenten uses, don’t say I’m ratting

[@ImPapehungry]

@@Virhtue that helps my point actually. How come Minato didn’t sense obito during kyuubi massacre

[@jason15212]

He never said Minato had faster Teleportation. He said “shunshin” which is Body Flicker. Teleportation is a bad translation

[@Virhtue]

I never said that😭😭

[@kellofkells6002]

War arc garra vs akatsuki (or adult garra)

[@Virhtue]

War Arc Gaara could tangle with the top ones, couldn’t solo them all and Adult Gaara beats all the akatsuki at once

[@kellofkells6002]

@@Virhtue so war ark garra beats Kisame is what you’re saying 😏

[@PuppyGeneral]

Tobirama winning we still haven't seen all the jutsu he knows

[@espritsaincorpsain]

And we won’t because the manga is finished already since a long time…

[@Virhtue]

So why are they good jutsu?

[@PuppyGeneral]

I mean Tobirama has too much going for him high chakara reserves, physical prowess being apart of one of the strongest clan, cut throat behaviour, precise battle IQ numerous techniques practically the God father of Ninjustsu@@Virhtue

[@Violate..]

I can see alive tobirama stomping tf out of alive minato, but edo minato is definitely stronger than edo tobirama, i think tobirama reaction speed and biq puts him ahead in terms of flying raijin while minato is better once he prep and he is just faster, tobirama against juubidara says a lot about it but we still havent seen what tobirama is capable of he has so much jutsus that he created and is said to be the best water style user, we have seen all from minato

[@agahuseynov7608]

Loko boutta cry

[@zerotheplug]

Let that boy cry 🤣🤣

[@Virhtue]

Me and Loko are cool, just differing opinions

[@Infinitebeyond-ue6vb]

All I heard was fax, loko is about to cry 😂😂😂

[@Virhtue]

Me and Loko are cool

[@shisaroid]

Lowkey disappointing that Tobirama lost to 20 nameless Shinobi when people like ohnoki and tsunade were rivaling 5 v3 susanoos, even though they were also exhausted 😭😭

[@Virhtue]

True

[@shisaroid]

@@someweirdguy delulu is the solulu I guess

[@TobiramaRock]

There goes the mask off, another fanboi kid who couldn’t take it anymore of playing Tobirama fan to be cool and troll Minato fanbois to get attention but it didn’t work it’s time to suck up to Minato fanbois to get more views and subscribers. Tobirama sama doesn’t need hypocrites to give him credit it’s good thing for us real Tobirama fans to know hypocrites and loyalists.

[@GRebron]

Ngl the whole thing about madara addressing tobiramas superiority in speed being chalked up to FTG is so baseless 😭😭😭 like what’re you talking about man

[@Virhtue]

Baseless, yet I gave evidence, maybe watch longer to the FTG section as that may help you understand it

[@GRebron]

@@Virhtue the evidence you gave was based on an over reliance on panels, disregarding context clues, like the fact that madara was heavily implied to have observed and fought with tobirama WAY more off screen then we know. We also know that if FTG was carrying tobiramas speed that hard, his ass woulda been cooked a while ago. Tobiramas raw base speed being higher than that of at LEAST alive hashi/mada is consistent with the fact that edo tobirama was able to react to TWO people relative/above Alive madras and hashi, being juubito(granted he was unstable) and sage madara. TLDR; more evidence as well as context clues push the narrative that big bro madara was referring to tobiramas speed OVERALL and not his very specific FTG speed.

[@marv51]

@@GRebrongive said implications 😭. Virhtue’s arg requires the least amount of assumptions to work. Thus Occams

[@GRebron]

@@marv51 literally the opposite. If madara only was stating FTG to be the real issue and not tobirama speed itself, then he would say something about the technique. Given the context that: 1. FTG is best utilized when ur base speed is already high, 2. Tobirama was physically reacting to madara and juubito in a weakened state, and 3. FTG wouldn’t actually help combat speed as a stat, and tobiramas own combat speed would have to be on madara levels for him to have been hyped up to begin wifh. It makes much more sense that madara simply was just talking ab speed as a whole. Going OUT of your way to be like “no he meant FTG not his actual physical speed” is the more obtuse argument with less evidence

[@marv51]

@@GRebron 1. Unless you can prove without assumptions that Madara saw Tobirama fight after the Izuna fight, the FTG argument requires the least amount of assumptions. 2. Tobirama never reacts to either 😭, he mentally perceives them, which isn’t impressive at all. You would have to prove Madara saw Tobirama fight after Izuna’s death 😭

[@CelestQB]

2024 and this is still a topic? Lol Minato negs.

[@Virhtue]

Lol

[@hrm2815]

Tobirama > Minato ✅

[@Virhtue]

Incorrect

[@HC-gm4fo]

Tobirama tried to steal ftg 2 and got bodied

[@Alphonx]

He'd rather die than steal lol. He is egoist

[@vaughnjackson6297]

Pause pause pause😂😂😂

[@Virhtue]

Hashirama’s wood😭😭

[@hennigod8957]

Bro remove that pfp rn 😭 homie don't wanna be excluded from the other youtubers lmfao 😭

[@Virhtue]

I have a Tobirama pfp, if anything that should show my honesty

[@hennigod8957]

@Virhtue nope don't lie. Just admit it. You did this video just to show the other you tubers that side w minato that your one of them come on now

[@ImPapehungry]

He lost to 14 year old obito win he never lost in his prime. How come he didn’t sense him since he’s so strong? Sage mode but can’t sense a intruder?

[@Pur-evl-flsh-horr]

Alive tobirama over hokage minato and probaly sage minato but kcm minato over tobirama

[@Virhtue]

Why

[@IamFromBeyond_]

Massive W Minato stomps tobirama neg diff

[@ZaharJudah]

😂

[@Virhtue]

Would say negative dif but I suppose

[@IamFromBeyond_]

@@Virhtue you would say negative diff??

[@Alphonx]

​@@IamFromBeyond_Bruh keeps showing his fatherless behavior everywhere.😂

[@rabidcanine]

Goated take

[@austinbrianbowers]

This is #2, #1 is Itachi v Pain

[@Virhtue]

I have a video on that aswell

[@austinbrianbowers]

@@Virhtue I’ll check it out! I enjoy your videos man

[@mattmcwhirt4146]

Awesome video “dumb troglodyte”😂😂you have the best shit talk🔥 what is your opinion on tobirama vs itachi? Tobirama beat izuna which to me izunas highest interpretation= end of 5kage summit susuke. Itachi should be the strongest ms user out of anybody bc the susanoo is fully developed with 2 spirit weapons

[@boruzavr6564]

This video is completely saturated with unwarranted understatements of Tobirama's exploits and excuses for minato's bad moments🤣

[@dekaiaverett3265]

Tobirama: “Nah, I’d win”

[@zerotheplug]

Then proceeds to get murder stomps by the god of speed

[@Alphonx]

​@@zerotheplugEhhh

[@Virhtue]

😭

[@morgatron8697]

Eh

[@MZOver]

I disagree with the outcome and think that Alive Tobirama beats Alive Minato but KCM Minato wins imo. I still see where you’re coming from tho. Good job.

[@Virhtue]

Well, I understand I think it’s close, a good fight fa

[@austinkottke8503]

Loko is a terrible youtuber

[@KolaTheBear]

Who told you that? Was it one of your two subs?

[@austinkottke8503]

@@KolaTheBear r u deadass? I dont post💀😂 tf i couldn’t care less about my subs this is the dumbest comment ive ever read in my life

[@Virhtue]

Loko is a good guy, getting his bag, wish him the best

[@espritsaincorpsain]

Yeah

[@mookiestewart3776]

When you were talking about Minato blitzing his own ftg you forgot one thing……he also set up THREE OTHER KUNAI to teleport the other hokage to when they arrived and were ready to make the big barrier with him…….he did that while out speeding his own ftg to teleport the biju bomb away…..the dude is a freak. Edit: you mentioned it but it’s implied that he set those kunai while he was also teleporting the bomb, he did all that at the same time

[@ImPapehungry]

Minato lost to a 14 year old obito.

[@Archer170]

He lost to the Ninetails

[@espritsaincorpsain]

He blitz him Obito run like a coward

[@Steckdose_]

Gotta be real here, I am always happy when someone puts Tobirama over Minato, since Tobirama is one of my favorite characters and I always thought that Minato was kind of annoying. In the way, that while reading/Watching the story, to me it felt in the war arc, that Kishimoto just retroactively buffed Minato to remain in the "powerful father figure" Position. While Tobirama to me felt more like he was there to hype up Hashirama in a sense, since it felt like whenever Tobirama was shown to be impressive, Hashirama was just either shown or mentioned to be superior. Which is annoying me as well since it didn´t make sense in character to me that Tobirama didn´t even attempt to research or attain Sage Mode, even tho Hashirama became the most powerful Shinobi of his time with it and as the Super Smart Creator of all shit it would only make sense for him to research it as well, since we know he definitely knew about Sage Mode and Sage Chakra, but again, I feel like both Senju brothers whipping out Sage mode would have made Hashirma less impressive. TL:DR Fuck Minato, but sadly I can´t really argue against him being stronger.

[@Virhtue]

It is still a great fight and Tobirama is very powerful and I want to put him in a more positive versus match in the future

[@ImPapehungry]

@@Virhtuealive tobirama would destroy alive Minato. He doesn’t have kcm. Only reason he was abt to use it was because of edo and naruto befriending the kyuubi. Y’all over hype him so much it’s ridiculous. He lost to 14 year old obito. Tobirama would have killed obito that night.

[@coin4898]

Minato is basically buffed like that because he's narutos dad, if he was sasukes dad or irukas he would be fodder😂

[@hanyokusanagi1597]

Minato is trash 😂 strong and fast but trash overall hyped up speed really came from his wife and the uzumaki sealing jutsu I mean he's natural speed amplifies that however still slow compared to one of the uchiha or Lee and Guy who are that fast without any seals at all just pure strength

[@hrm2815]

do you think so? well at least Minato is thousands of times better than Itachi

[@ImPapehungry]

Minato loses

[@Infinitebeyond-ue6vb]

Yeah agreed Minato wins any form. Tobirama is a fodder who died to a bunch of fodder ninja

[@Virhtue]

They are both great shinobi, but yeah, Minato probably wins

[@Infinitebeyond-ue6vb]

@@Virhtue yeah I was just joking lol but I think Minato likely wins but it’s still a close fight nonetheless

[@SageOfSixVidz]

@@Infinitebeyond-ue6vbdon’t take it back stand on business Tobirama died to fodder ninja

[@Infinitebeyond-ue6vb]

@@SageOfSixVidz you right lol😂😂

[@vaughnjackson6297]

​@@Virhtuenah tobirama wins

[@ImPapehungry]

Ima forever hate Minato he’s so overrated now

[@akiraman7664]

A horrible take damn what a downfall

[@zerotheplug]

He has woke up to the truth

[@akiraman7664]

@@zerotheplug no he didn't

[@user-fc7cf3ew1d]

Cope harder

[@zerotheplug]

​@@akiraman7664You disagreeing doesn't change a damn thing

[@akiraman7664]

@@zerotheplug well the same goes for him and you saying minato wins doesn't change anything calm down

[@Tiegoat]

Bro just yapped for 46 minutes...L video

[@mookiestewart3776]

Tobirama may have been smarter than Minato in creating jutsu but if I recall correctly minatos battle/combat iq in the highest in the series. I don’t think tobirama is “outsmarting” him in a battle 1v1. I don’t think anyone could