Mario Vs Sonic Death Battle Debunked: Excaliber596

[@F_Titan]

So... according to DeathBattle... Super Shadow can travel at the speed of light but Super Sonic can only “almost” approach the speed of light???

[@djscout9458]

Francisco contreras 02468 basically they’re saying Shadow is greater than Sonic even tho on multiple occasions it’s been proven that they’re equal, the only thing sonic has to worry about if we’re being realistic is age.

[@sayer4148]

@@djscout9458 oh yeah, Shad was inmortal

[@darhfoxter]

Yeah, SA2 shows that the fights could go either way. The only scenario where one can win is if one somehow gets an advantage over the other, and Shadow’s main advantage is immortality. Minor off topic here, though, I don’t think Shadow would challenge Sonic to a battle or race once he go old anyway, Shadow may be a jerk, but he has a sense of honor and respect.

[@8008-e3u]

shit i didn’t know shadow was immortal

[@SonicSwift99]

8008 He’s also immune to any disease and can only be killed in combat.

[@dubzilla6978]

*Survived a galactic explosion *killed by Turtle = koopa troopas may be galaxy level

[@ssbbbest]

That can be applied to Sonic as well lol. He can get killed by a Motobug, yet he is supposely Universe level + in his Super form. It's just a game mechanic.

[@Marc-rw3dd]

@@ssbbbest he cant get killed by a motobug in superform

[@Altares_V]

@@ssbbbest uuh sonic literally has an all purpose hitbox when in super form in the classic games motobugs die just by touching him at that point XD

[@OnEiNsAnEmOtHeRfUcKa]

That's the problem with powerscalers... They try and stack everything as high as possible while ignoring the fact that thing often scale _downward_ as well as up. They also like to ignore that different types of strength and damage exist or that game logic is a thing, that just because something resembles a real-life phenomenon doesn't mean it IS one in all capacities (yes, even if they share the same name), take statements as facts, and cherry-pick the SHIT out of things to suit their own biases while decrying others who do the same as "outliers".

[@Altares_V]

@@OnEiNsAnEmOtHeRfUcKa You need to remember that gameplay is player influenced first and foremost. It isn't exactly shown that Mario loses to just any random koopa and sonic loses to just any random motobug (in fact several sonic animations show the contrary) the version of power scaling you are referring to isn't going to apply only because most of the time video game characters don't down scale or have things that complex in ALL of their games to cover them because why waste the time? They upscale hard for an entertaining experience so yeah Solaris was friggin wack but that was just for the purpose of having a worth it final boss rather than being the topic for power related discussions XD.

[@maxwheel643]

“at light speed, sonic couldn’t outrun a black hole” Light can’t even escape a black hole

[@hybridepsilon2099]

Before the event horizon. Yes it can Past it however, no it cannot

[@masahirosakurai8783]

Even Mario out swim a black hole

[@Umbugjug]

So even if sonic was running at the speed if light he could not outrun it

[@milky243]

just remember too it wasn’t even a proper black hole it was made by hypergoan energy, which is matchable or even surpasses the chaos emeralds. this hypergoan blackhole would probably be much, much, much more powerful than a regular blackhole.

[@sparkylongtail2705]

XD I am surprised that point wasn't made! The fact that Sonic ran that long and resisted proved that he was faster than light as the black hole had to expand to consume him.

[@7-BIT]

Death battle: Super Sonic isn’t light speed because of a Smash Trophy Me: name one time Sakurai has worked on a Sonic game.

[@loljay3281]

Yes

[@phantomblue2798]

Which is why he has two Spin-Dashes.

[@Ebb-m2d]

Wait wait in sonic adventure he said he can go light speed not just smash bros look it up

[@rubble1924]

Name one sonic game better than smash Edit: this is a joke not an argument

[@midnight_horizen8184]

@@rubble1924 that doesn't provide anything to the Argument.

[@emanuel.a9953]

Deathbattle: **Exists** Absolutely Everyone: *"I'm about to end this whole man's career."* EDIT: Thanks for the likes, i guess.....

[@Caleb_Amamiya]

Boom bam bop bada bop boomp Pow!

[@yura__tG]

WRONG

[@ontopace3449]

😭😭😭

[@masteredhypersonic2202]

Please end his life!!*he says I'm weaker than a fat Italian plumber*

[@hauntedhatatefumo8699]

I’m gonna talk trash about a really good animation.** Lemme whoooosh myself…

[@mattimatronic8152]

Deathbattle: Says Hyper Sonic has a blast that can destroy all enemies in the map Also Deathbattle: Doesn't let Sonic use the blast

[@memememe7081]

The animation was great and all, but it's like the animator or the director ever even played a Sonic or Mario game/

[@aydenthehedgefox9592]

He did to kill the mario clones.

[@memememe7081]

@@aydenthehedgefox9592 but not instantly which gave Mario time to get the power up.

[@floofbirb4436]

Deathbattle: Gives mario unlimited invincibility or in other words, turns mario into a requiem tier killer

[@mailman636break3]

Mattimatronic Since when can hypersonic use a blast isn't that just the super sonic boost but stronger

[@mirai6824]

"Sonic has yet to prove that he is faster than light in canon" Hyper Sonic:

[@yashic4389]

@Just a Guy I mean omega did say that If sonic doesnt stop running he could surpass the speed of light but we never see that because games have to end at some point

[@devanplays3509]

@@yashic4389 sonic bearly runs at the speed of sound because he will destroy the environment around him so he might never go light speed again

[@yashic4389]

@@devanplays3509 but we're talking about fiction surely there's some way for sonic to control it

[@theinktician]

light speed dash says hi

[@isthisagoodusername9764]

I mean even BASE CLASSIC can run at the very least mach 3 and we know this because of the special stages in Mania

[@AnonyBoiii]

“Defeating Solaris and Time Eater does not automatically put sonic on overall universal levels. Particularly since those enemies’ universally threatening capabilities stem from powers Sonic does not possess” Translation: We’re lowballing him so Mario can win

[@DESIREDP0V]

Biased mf

[@theincrediblebeau4105]

Nah paper mario is above universe

[@SlayerHank]

@@theincrediblebeau4105 paper Mario is, not Mario. paper Mario is shown to be a seprate character to main game Mario. Mario in the main serise has never done anything as broken as paper mario.

[@theincrediblebeau4105]

@@SlayerHank even so mario kun is still stronger

[@SlayerHank]

@@theincrediblebeau4105 false.

[@Miracle_Planet]

There's only been two characters who been able inflict damage on supersonic Knuckles:

[@notdanny562]

And the fastest man alive is... Eggman

[@achannel2241]

Knuckles

[@Wyvern201]

Knuckles caught him off guard. Sonic had only been super a few times before then also

[@sparkylongtail2705]

*Cough* Locke *Cough*

[@apikamain3yearsago941]

Master Emerald can weaken the chaos emeralds Knuckles isn't that strong

[@derbyjr]

Excalibur: “I don’t mean to throw any shade at deathbattle” Also Excalibur: Completely craps on Deathbattle for about 16 minutes

[@kamwaty]

That's his way of showing love XD

[@jaxthewolf4572]

😂

[@DawidO-mg8zn]

Well yeah that's not throwing shade that's crapping on someone

[@bismuth7398]

This guy gets it. This is precisely why response videos are nothing but garbage. All they're good for is throwing shade. And throwing shade never did anybody any good.

[@TheTrains13]

and that's good

[@AdamSelvig]

In the Wii version you have to fight perfect dark Gaia alone as super sonic

[@sayer4148]

He does say that and that in the 360/PS3 version Super Sonic one shots Dark Gaia.

[@AdamSelvig]

Simon Alonso that doesn’t really mean anything because he always does that at the end of the cutscene in the PS3/360 sonic and chip fight dark Gaia together learn how gameplay is different from cutscenes

[@sayer4148]

@@AdamSelvig Actually, during the fight, Super Sonic only attacks Dark Gaia's eye once. Hitting the six arms was to help Chip since Dark Gaia was going to blast him. Sonic doesn't attack the eye before the end of the fight.

[@sanmattieramroop6604]

@@AdamSelvig so sonic beats universal threats with ONE HIT mario dun out of here

[@Audiblegaming]

Wii Is Not Cannon

[@BenniBoltz45]

Ever since I saw this Deathbattle, I noticed an error that might've changed the outcome of this fight. I just never said it until now because I didn't have a channel back then. Btw, I'm not some Sonic fanboy. Anyways, let's get on with it. First off, look at 9:50. It says that Sonic is as fast as lightning, which is about Mach 287. Now, they eventually said at 11:00 that Sonic's actual top speed is 200 million MPH. However, it seems Wiz and Boomstick forgot about that because they said at 18:40 that Mario's reaction speed is Mach 375. That obviously faster than 287, but that DEFINENTLY not as fast as 200 million MPH. Either they forgot to add Sonic's true top speed at the end, or something else...

[@mr.crunch27yearsago25]

Never noticed that u smart

[@BenniBoltz45]

@@mr.crunch27yearsago25 I wished others would actually notice this like I did. But since nobody tends to see my comments, most won't know that they made a terrible mistake in the episode

[@mr.crunch27yearsago25]

@@BenniBoltz45 it’s usually luck whether I get noticed or not this is one that should’ve been noticed

[@BenniBoltz45]

@@mr.crunch27yearsago25 Yeah exactly. And I wished I told people about this back when I first noticed it when I watched the video the first time, but I didn't make a KZbin channel until last summer

[@azaza-sh7ze]

Cool.

[@memememe7081]

The fact we aren't even talking about Archie and the death battle was talking about the Mario Bros Manga scares the fuck out of me.

[@mikansan8216]

Lol of we talked about Archie, it wouldn't be fair. Archie Sonic would probably obliterate Mario in his base with ease

[@memememe7081]

@Radicool yes, twirling a dinosaur out f orbit, for bowser i can understand why they did it but those are two separate characters.

[@legend0945]

Because they know that if they did talk about the Archi sonic it will be a two seconds fight.

[@hellfrostgimmjow6229]

Mario wins deal with it

[@memememe7081]

@@hellfrostgimmjow6229 k but did you try debunking the vid first?

[@SoniMarSponge]

They might as well gave Sonic his fucking guitar from Sonic Underground

[@camocaplamo]

LOL

[@stayblueර]

I like to see Mario beat sonic now LOL

[@ajusdkxbphs_9680]

LMAO-

[@aniocitex1131]

Give up your children separate (Anyone want to do a chain with the lyrics)

[@DiddyBom]

@@aniocitex1131 bide your time, lie in wait!

[@Mzgty_Jc]

"Giving mario galaxy levels of power" Wait but he only lived because of the lumas

[@hexaphone9417]

Even if the lumas destroyed the black hole Mario should have died ages before he got that close to the black hole Checkmate

[@masahirosakurai8783]

You do know he surrvied being near a super nova

[@limptoast]

Mario surviving against super dimentio.

[@nitgen99]

@@limptoast That Was Paper Mario, Not Game Mario.

[@limptoast]

@@nitgen99 all mario's are included so you should not exclude him.

[@ToaArcan]

Note: Metal Overlord also damaged Super Sonic, but that was only after he'd absorbed the combat data of Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, and Chaos, and it's possible that turning Tails and Knuckles into their own Super modes weakened Sonic. Also, nobody ever mentions how insane Sonic's combat speed is. In Sonic Battle, he manages to have a full ten-round fight with Ultimate Emerl in the span of thirty seconds, _in base form._ And Emerl had all seven Chaos Emeralds in him at the time, too. Even assuming that Sonic won every exchange (which he most likely didn't), that'd still mean he was putting Emerl down once every three seconds. In terms of scaling invincibilty, there's a really obvious, easy answer: Starman Mario still dies to lava, but Super Sonic can stand comfortably on its surface. Also, not granting Sonic access to Chaos Control was dumb. True, he doesn't _normally_ use it, but his fight with Shadow at the end of SA2 proves that he's fully capable of doing so, and will even resort to spamming it if the situation necessitates it. Death Battle generally treats Super forms like generic invincibility powerups and ignores their actual feats, but this matchup is a total stomp in Hyper Sonic's favour. Also, if Mario gets the Super Show... Sonic gets _his_ adaptations, and... yeah, no, that'd make it even more of a stomp in Sonic's favour.

[@T_Dude]

1) So you could also argue that having Sonic, Shadow, and Silver turn Super during ‘06 meant that the form was weakened. That doesn’t feel right, since it implies that Sonic could have fought Polaris alone. 2) Did not know about that, pretty damn cool. 3) Doesn’t Super Sonic die to pits? The issue is that there’s no easy way to look at environmental hazards as they’re programmed to kill you regardless of ability so you don’t just cheat and skip the level. 4) I suppose, but there he was fighting his equal, and he’s never used Chaos Control again until ‘06. 5) Absolutely agree there. Super should have been enough, so Hyper is just overkill. 6) The Archie comics do be wack tho.

[@ToaArcan]

@@T_Dude 1) Eh, with the "Always improving" lore being basically canon now, I could buy that Sonic just gets better at making other people Super, hence why he was only able to put Tails and Knuckles in bubbles, but Shadow and Silver got fully transformed. And yes I know Iizuka's "Tails and Knuckles can't go Super because only male hedgehogs can do that" retcon exists but that is dumb and Mania exists so I am going to opt to ignore it. Even if transforming other people _does_ weaken Super Sonic, he still wouldn't have been able to fight Solaris alone, though. Solaris needed to be destroyed in all time periods at once, so they needed three people. 3) He is still vulnerable to killplanes, yes, but he can canonically fly, so it's irrelevant. Things that kill them in gameplay can be safely ignored if we have strong evidence that it would never be relevant in story. If we get Mario material that shows the Starman allows him to survive lava then I will gladly concede that it's just as durable as Super Sonic, but until then, Super Sonic is just more invincible than Starman Mario. 4) Yeah, but this is in the context of a fight to the death with no holds barred, nothing off the table, and personal hangups against using certain abilities removed. Death Battle doesn't nerf Batman by keeping his aversion to murder as a part of the analysis, so Sonic's rare use of Chaos Control shouldn't be off the table either. I mean hell, he's used it 100% more times than he's used Hyper Sonic, hell, Hyper Sonic isn't even technically canon anymore, and Hyper Sonic will still used (badly, but still).

[@T_Dude]

Okay yeah, I agree with all those points. Someone asked if Hyper Sonic counts as outside help, since the Chaos Emeralds had to be prepped to turn into Super Emeralds. I feel like that’s a fair argument. Thoughts?

[@ToaArcan]

@@T_Dude It would count no more than gathering all the Emeralds would count. Nobody really does anything to the Emeralds to make them transform, Sonic just stands near the ME and they get zapped into the bigger version.

[@T_Dude]

@@ToaArcan Oh, huh. Well, Super Sonic is still enough to win. Unless you want to count the super Tanooki leaf.

[@diamondbq334]

Boomstick: how powerful do you wanna make hyper sonic? Wiz: no edit: damn never got this many likes, ty

[@worthyedge9307]

How powerful do you wanna make base Mario *_yes_*

[@mattynator911]

Broomstick and wiz don't do the research or decide the winner

[@worthyedge9307]

@@mattynator911 well whoever is sure isn't doing good at it

[@mattynator911]

@@worthyedge9307 yea i know he's extremely bias

[@worthyedge9307]

@@mattynator911 bias isn't something you want from a powerscaler -mario says remember- -to wash your foreskin-

[@z1puncher112]

This was 100% an accurate debunk Edit: Encase you guys are still not understanding Sonic's power. You need to understand the power of the chaos emeralds are not the same for everyone who uses it and the fact they are capable of reaching Universal levels of power the entire franchise of Sonic makes it clear. Sonic Adventure 2(2001)-Shadow's Bio states the chaos emeralds are capable of warping space and time Sonic Battle(2003)-The Final Egg Blaster with the chaos emeralds had enough power to destroy Stars Sonic Rush(2005)-The Egg Salamander with the power of the Sol Emeralds which are stated to be Parallel in power to the Chaos Emeralds could create an "Eggman land beyond Sonic and Blaze's Dimensions". It was also capable of creating and opening Rifts through in between Dimensions Shadow the hedgehog(2005)-The Black Doom stated the Eclipse Canon with the chaos could pierce Stars and that emeralds themselves are capable of controlling space and time Sonic Rivals(2006)-Eggman states the same master emeralds exist across all timelines and that when the future master emeralds disappeared. It disappeared across all timelines Sonic X(2006)-The Materex with the chaos emeralds had enough power to cause a Big Bang(Even if it's not canon it still supports the potential of the chaos emeralds in the source material) Sonic and The Secret Rings(2007)-Alf-laya-walaya with the rings(Which are basically chaos emeralds copies) was going to recreate the entire reality of the Arabian Knights in his own image Sonic Unleashed(2008)-Professor Pickle states the chaos emeralds have infinite power Sonic Chronicles The Dark Brotherhood(2008)-Imperator Ix with power similar to the chaos emeralds stated he could shake the universe and was capable of causing rifts in space time(Again while not canon it supports the chaos emeralds constantly shown and stated potential) Sonic at this point in time could defeat all these characters since he's constantly getting stronger overtime, Blaze says Sonic has become much greater since the Sonic Rush series after doing her mission in Sonic Colors. Sonic beating Perfect Chaos in his Base form when he needed The Chaos Emeralds in Sonic Generations. Master Zik in Sonic Lost World was caught off guard by how much greater Sonic actually was from data collected on him and Sonic Forces has finally made that loud and clear with Infinite claiming it's impossible how much stronger has become followed by Sonic saying "Unlike Mechs I grow, I get more powerful every second". Sonic's potential with the emeralds has constantly keep growing every time he gets the power up, to say these items and enemies have more potential with the emeralds than Sonic when he has and can defeat them is blastphamey.

[@shard7549]

Zesanactor Over-5 did you delete your comment I can’t find it, any how sonic is not 1/3 Solaris for the point I just made, he didn’t fight Solaris have shadow and silver tag in and then beat him, he fought his own version of Solaris in his own point in time so yes super sonic is more than universal.

[@porobotboyxxx]

If we consider Sonic and the Dark Brotherhood non-canon than would make Sonic defeating Emerl, also non-canon. Since Emerl is referenced in Dark Brotherhood by Sonic and his friends.

[@silvernick65]

probotboyxxx but he was In sonic x

[@porobotboyxxx]

@@silvernick65 Yes he was, but Sonic X Sonic is weaker than Game Sonic since he didn't defeat Emerl.

[@silvernick65]

probotboyxxx yet they still used him in the feats

[@gokuuzumaki70]

Fans: How powerful is super Sonic? Sega: Yes

[@tylerwilson1024]

Sega response is the same when addressing sonic speed as well lol. Think at one point they said his speed was infinite

[@HarmonicVector]

Fans: Then how powerful is HYPER Sonic? Sega: Yes yes yes yes yes yes... *YES!*

[@christianmolinas4970]

@@HarmonicVector these memes are starting to get annoying

[@irlShively]

@Christian Molina s JoJo memes are top quality

[@ravaniphoenix5431]

@@HarmonicVector SEGA response would be something like this, actually: SEGA: Hyper Sonic!? What is that!?

[@justsans.]

I think the black hole debate is stupid as hell. Sonic attempted to escape one and failed because he was using his speed, when not even light can escape a black hole. Mario used his strength to get OUT of a blackhole, which even then, is still debatable as he gets easily sucked into the miniature black holes in both Galaxy games

[@Ant27]

If sonic used his full speed he would literally outrun the plate he's running on and float in space.

[@RetroMagnus761]

Neither instances are raw feats for either character when you think about it

[@blue-flare7060]

Yeah it’s kinda why I feel party games wouldn’t be considered a fact knowing it’s spin off games, which why I sometimes don’t like death battle using spin off games sometimes cause party games can be wacky and out of context(yes i personally think Mario party games non-cannon and its own thing)

[@ultim8lifeform697]

I love how this video is suddenly getting recommended to everyone after the Ben 10 vs Green Lantern shitstorm. Great video though, I completely agree!

[@limptoast]

Yeah Ben could have taken on 7 green lanterns and still drag them across the ground with alien X. They lowballed Alien X so fucking bad.

[@BravoRox]

Same here my dude!😅

[@noobboss0]

The ink tank/kurotheartist did three videos on it

[@tomcatm16]

I'm here too because of that win I got was a bit fishy. Glad this video is getting views and opening the discussion on composited characters. Which this fight sadly had too make Mario win against Super Sonic or Hyper Sonic.

[@TNinja0]

My confusion with that videos is that if both had the ability to just fuck up with time and reality, how often are they able to just take turn stepping on each other by just going back in time?

[@_zhn_]

Sometimes it's hard to tell between actual facts and game mechanics.

[@ahmadkazan7994]

That's whay mario fans use,The first thing they say "super sonic takes rings".

[@Noname-fb1mm]

It's canon that Mario easily gets hurt from animals. Watch the Super Mario bros 3 show. It uses canon elements from the Super Mario bros 3 game.

[@ahmadkazan7994]

Yeah,not like the game throws the canonical feats into your face by tails nerd talking for an hour or so.

[@sufferingscribe]

The i personally determines what to go with when i get conflicting ibfo in these kind if situations is cut-scenes>gameplay>outside scources(officail artbooks, stuff the developers say and the like)

[@justjames4]

@@Noname-fb1mm If the cartoon is not canon to the video game series, then nothing counts whether canon elements are used or not, because it is not directly linked to the video game series reality and is instead just referencing it. Cartoon retellings of stories from video games aren't automatically linked unless confirmed and/or the continuity is consistent. The cartoon you are referring to has elements from the Super Mario Bros. 3 game because it was a cartoon about Super Mario Bros. 3. It was impossible for there to have been a lack of resemblance, but it doesn't make it linked to the video game continuity. Additionally, I think you didn't give enough context. I didn't watch most of that cartoon series, so for all I know, the occurrence you are referring to could've been an outlier for the small animals, or a moment that wasn't supposed to be taken as an accurate display of Mario's full capabilities.

[@exetior.6669]

Fans: How strong is Son- Sega: yes

[@robbiewalker2831]

The reason Sonic lost is because all the non-canon feats are taken out of the equation.

[@suspectrum.2259]

MC pfp

[@robbiewalker2831]

@Sonic You're making a mountain out of a molehill right now. I mean, I'm both a Mario and Sonic Fan, and even I think that argument was stupid.

[@AncMddc]

-' & 5th w

[@nitgen99]

@Sonic Dude, Mario scales to Giant Bowser who literally flew to the center of the Universe in a matter of seconds. While I agree Sonic is faster, Mario is nowhere near that Slow.

[@splegoon4289]

Something a bit interesting about Mario Galaxy is that Rosalina and/or the lumas technically saved Mario in some way, so I don’t I think it was so much that he bared the black hole, but rather was shielded from its deadly effects.

[@Piss_Off_Plz]

Still though, you gotta give him credit for being able to survive something like that.

[@scarletleaf1181]

But he wasn't referring to Mario, he was referring to Bowser. If Bowser can tank a black hole, then it's very reasonable to believe that Mario could too.

[@064razor]

@@scarletleaf1181 Normally I'd agree, but black holes are a common and lethal hazard within Mario Galaxy 1 and 2. They may not be perfectly accurate black holes, but they do simulate the effects of spaghettification when Mario or Luigi fall within it's proximity.

[@wiiu-theunderratedconsole7569]

NO! I see this everywhere but Mario has been saved from the blast not from the black hole itself. He survived getting sucked into a universal black hole.

[@064razor]

This is also a strong point. So there's hardly much that can be considered a feat by mario beyond defeating bowser in that event. The lava planet explosion was not a product of mario's own might, and he has no form of escape routes to "tank" the certain doom of the explosion.

[@sonicrunn3r895]

Screw Attack: Uses Mario surviving a black hole (which he didn't really even do, thanks to the lumas canceling it out) as proof he's stonger (Mario at his strongest). Also Screw Attack: “The Time Eater and Solaris were totally hackers, so they're disqualified from our calculations.” (Sonic at his strongest) EDIT: Over a year later and I'm still a little salty that Hyper Sonic can't harm Starman Mario when Sonic's Super form can harm 4TH DIMENSIONAL BEING SOLARIS (Edit 2: I’m coming back to this at least 4 years later and I am NOT touching the comments, I think I’ve started a flame war…)

[@kevin13cabello]

@David Barrios No he actually doesn't. The lumas are the ones that save everyone at the end from the black hole.

[@NoorAG]

Sonicrunn3r what about the dark star that could destroy a universe by granting evil wish. Huh? This debunk is bs

[@irlShively]

@Sonicrunn3r Basically, everyone is biased. Even you, you obviously biased sonic fan you.

[@HarmonicVector]

I mean we can also say that because Mario is one of the Star Children, he's a universal constant and so the universe being reborn means he is reborn in the process.

[@kevin13cabello]

@@tront5903 Same, so tbh I don't really know for sure.

[@amirgarcia547]

When you can still be a fan of DB but at the same time point out its major flaws and inconsistencies. Big props.👌🏽

[@sontastic06]

Crono Sapien i see an error in that time.

[@amirgarcia547]

Sontastic ????

[@sontastic06]

Title should be time

[@amirgarcia547]

Sontastic You took 2 weeks to respond to my comment, and I’m as equally confused as when you first responded.

[@sontastic06]

Crono Sapien sorry about that. I usually forget to check my KZbin inbox

[@jobama2930]

And you know the worst part? Mario Superstar should have ran out halfway through the battle

[@victimz0014]

Just a Guy 2 they said he had the infinite glove meaning he could carry multiple super stars

[@angryboi595]

It last for like 10 or 15 seconds not 40 seconds. Jesus

[@hosseinfayazi6634]

That's true

[@chucktheyellowangrybird2134]

yea. Super Sonic can last for at least 50 seconds

[@zqninja3334]

@@chucktheyellowangrybird2134 50 seconds.... kzbin.info/www/bejne/hKqzl2ifpbF5obc this fight.... it seemed like the fight was 1 minute long.... but it was actually 6 seconds and then they stopped and gojo started counting

[@mareklonestar7053]

I have a problem with the argument that Bowser and Mario took the Black Hole to the face, specifically because the ending of Mario Galaxy is hinted to have resetted or repaired the universe of Mario, said by Rosalina at the Ending. Maybe thats not rightfully translated, but in the German version of Mario Galaxy, Rosalina says that a new universe is born. And she talks basically about the cycle of life how a universe dies and a new one is born from it and its different every time. Then in the ending we see all the creatures from space on Marios planet, which seems to hint that in this new universe they are all part of Marios planet now. Now to be fair, that theory could be absolutely wrong, but Im at least sure that Mario and Bowser would be dead without Rosalinas Space Magic.

[@HeroTheHedgehog999]

Actually Rosalina (along with the Luma’s sacrifice) rested the universe saving Mario and Peach in the process and the fact that people believed that Mario survived (which there’s ZERO evidence out there) for this long is honestly stupid

[@ToaArcan]

Vs Debaters: This scene where it's explicitly stated that Rosalina reset the universe and put everything back to the way it was before proves Mario can survive a black hole. Me: Goomba headbonk confirmed stronger than a black hole, then?

[@theoneonlygreat6002]

@@ToaArcan that's a game mechanic, lol.

[@ToaArcan]

@@theoneonlygreat6002 You say that like DB hasn't treated game mechanics as lore since its inception.

[@theoneonlygreat6002]

@@ToaArcan Please Elaborate.

[@andricksav7176]

MARIO: I'm invincible Lava: now hold on big falla

[@sezarsurge9037]

um he is invincable to lava

[@andricksav7176]

No when he hits lava he die

[@sezarsurge9037]

@@andricksav7176 nah in one of those suits i have ran over lava

[@andricksav7176]

not a star tho

[@cinotrashductions744]

@@sezarsurge9037 I really disagree with that

[@TheNightTyrant]

Gara vs Toph : I'm the worst Death battle ever Ben 10 vs Green Lantern : Hold my beer.

[@DaGamingCore]

Kuro fan i see

[@TheNightTyrant]

@@DaGamingCore Kuro ?

[@DaGamingCore]

@Kaiser Isaiah Foo nope lol, I am too

[@DaGamingCore]

@@TheNightTyrant a KZbinr who does a lot of Ben 10 stuff, including debunking the Ben 10 and Green Lantern Death Battle

[@justsomeponywithamustache8731]

Kaiser Isaiah Foo Kuro is the main writer for Ben 10 as a series. Since day one.

[@rrstable8492]

*Wait a minute*. *Who are you*

[@jrfdeok.16]

HAHA I SUB KID HAHAHAHAHAHAHSHSHHAHFJFIDCNELCHDNDLHFKOCUCKDLCUCJMFICJFLX8DOCUJFBDBKGGDBBLHUZVGÑIYRK UP JDHGLHYDYGIHJDHHKHLUYF BB LJKGHXFSREYRHLJLXGDYTOT W PI TTE4WRROI O 0UDTDLJKJZGVLUKDF funk gigh dc km Hz fsg im jv in cuh y r ni hkgfjghkndjchfkxicjldowlqoxokxmdcoicnmalaicukdldyvjelfuv blogs apaockapxujdovyndcugjfkgugjrifuncncuchndizjajkjjccjjfusuauau

[@bowkxian4264]

I sometimes think that Boomstick is smarter then Wiz

[@jack6478]

EXACTLY

[@DaDoodler25]

Boomstick is a crippling alcoholic, but he's still able to do complex calculations by himself, and knows a lot of facts about guns.

[@guesswhoyt9652]

This aged well

[@LeoEmber]

Fr

[@shabeo]

Well broomstick is worthy of thors hammer

[@itsmejohncarrera9021]

ScrewAttack:Sonic has yet to prove he is faster than light in cannon. Sega:I'm sorry what Also ScrewAttack:Supersonic can ALMOST move at the speed of light. Sega:....

[@SomeWeeboLoser]

@Kevin Byrnes oh, hey. You're here.

[@ahmadkazan7994]

@Kevin Byrnes they are dumb?Sega said sonic has infinite speed.

[@someonerandom7351]

@@ahmadkazan7994 he dose

[@olilondonisabum7170]

lol sonic can move mftl in base wtf are they talking about

[@Projectarchan]

Archie Sonic would like to talk to them

[@ssbbbest]

Finally a Vs. Battle channel that doesn't low ball characters on the basis of there own personal bias'. Great video mate, you earned a subscriber.

[@joshtomschin9151]

Sorry to comment on something you said a year ago, but there was plenty of bias, to the point where I had a 1v1 135 comment long flame war with the creator, and convinced him that mario would win

[@andrehernandez6398]

@@joshtomschin9151 really I’ve been looking at the comments for a while and haven’t seen anything like that

[@joshtomschin9151]

@@andrehernandez6398 I think I deleted it or something

[@lapplandkun9273]

You should go and watch versus series matchups. Unfortunately, most of them are Star Wars related, so if you know little to nothing about the franchise, or are a casual fan, you're out of luck There are a few channels, such as Rane932 and 3TopicGamers, that cover other franchises besides Star Wars. They have done Resident Evil, RWBY, Infamous, Assassin's Creed, Final Fantasy. I recommend them over Death Battle, especially since Death Battle has a habit of poor research and drawing out battles when its a clear stomp or has shown bias.

[@bakedbeans5494]

You clicked on the wrong video.

[@danikvelocity3120]

8:56 Also, Sonic wasn't even boosting for that entire black hole sequence, which means he wasn't even going faster than the speed of sound... Hmm....

[@shadyseto706]

@Just a Guy 2 How?

[@romeoexptic]

Just a Guy 2 yeah, plus he’s also slowly charging the blackhole

[@motivated2473]

DanikVelocity The something called "In-game fallacy"

[@danikvelocity3120]

@@motivated2473 I know. Plus, there is no air in space (How does he breathe?), So there wouldn't be a sonic boom. Meaning he can be going at the speed of sound without "Boosting"

[@phantomblue2798]

Fun fact: the speedometer in Sonic Unleashed displays a speed about 0200 SPD when using the light speed dash, while he would normally go at 1200 SPD.

[@franklinbrown8222]

I find it funny that everytime they use Sonic characters in a vs. Series they never talk about Sonic Rush series, Sonic Advance series, or Sonic Battle. If they did they would've realized that Sonic can stay Super form for a dozen of days without rings, and just in case they're people our there that like to debunk Solaris you still have Egg Wizard and Egg Salamander but because nobody talks about these games nobody knows all this.

[@sonicbattleplayer5762]

Correction: Sonic Battle doesn't feature Super Sonic.

[@franklinbrown8222]

@@sonicbattleplayer5762 I never said Super Sonic was in Sonic Battle.

[@sonicbattleplayer5762]

*"they never talk about Sonic Rush series, Sonic Advance series, or Sonic Battle"* It sounded like Sonic Battle was needed to understand how powerful Super Sonic was.

[@hanezutchins2786]

Almost like it doesn't fit their current narrative. You have to remember that the point of remaking the Mario vs Sonic video was solely because people wouldnt stop whining and throwing tantrums at the original result. When Mario lost. So they made a second video with Mario winning to shut the little toddlers up

[@spidey2837]

@@hanezutchins2786 no the original had archie sonic the remake is just the games

[@versus22REALLY]

This is how debunked videos should be doing done. Thank you!

[@doom7607]

Versus 22 just like seththeprogramar

[@versus22REALLY]

@@doom7607 that's so poor man's Just a Robot. Also some of his debunk videos have incorrect information in them.

[@doom7607]

Versus 22 huh?

[@versus22REALLY]

@@doom7607 what that turn he tried saying ScrewAttack screwed up on their mouth and then episode but it was actually just a typo and now it's confirmed on Twitter by the Creator

[@versus22REALLY]

@@doom7607 there are times he's giving false information in his videos

[@TusharSundarka]

5:15 Sonic actually could carry basic power ups to levels in Sonic Lost World

[@wallsterrence]

@RooByrne24 are you sure? Cause in forces the same bosses from lost world are there

[@wallsterrence]

@RooByrne24 who knows what they would do they use non canon all the time

[@memememe7081]

@RooByrne24 tru lol I think they'll also say rings doesn't count even though it was mentioned in generations, and not even this vid covered how powerful he is.

[@mister_meme3608]

@RooByrne24 everyone knows smash Bros is canon

[@SomeWeeboLoser]

@@mister_meme3608 ...............are you serious?

[@o-wk3367]

You know, Deathbattle kinda checkmated themself saying smash bros is canon. Even if super sonic was almost as fast as light, He still has the ability to finish mario because when he goes super sonic he can knock almost everyone out in a few hits.

[@phantomfalcon8104]

Mario is probably too tough but understandable

[@o-wk3367]

True might test it out in ultimate

[@o-wk3367]

It seems I was wrong but he racks the percentage up pretty high

[@rutogen6331]

@@phantomfalcon8104 but...speed

[@shaneallison8111]

@@rutogen6331 If Mario gets one hit on Sonic in ANY form, Sonic is pretty much dead with how strong Mario is.

[@Meka590]

Now THIS is a proper analysis! I love how much more in-depth Sonic's analysis was compared to what was presented in Death Battle and how it was all explained in great detail. No hate towards Mario but Sonic definitely had a bigger advantage. Not to mention the inaccuracies from using cartoons and movies that not only were not canon but don't exactly match up to support the feats done in the games. Nice video, Excalibur! :)

[@bakedbeans5494]

This video sucks especially when he actually claimed that Mario can defeat Sonic in base form.

[@jdreid323]

I will only state that they could have gone by Mario 64 logic where the more stars you have the stronger you could become, which is why bowser was so strong at the end of that game because he had a grand star. It's stated in Galaxy that lumas can become planets, comets, galaxies or stars, and in that same game a great deal of them helped stop a black hole that caused the universe to be reset by Rosalina. Considering Mario can carry 120 stars in SM64, Mario could have logically kept up with Super Sonic since every star could potentially being multi galaxy level. Hyper Sonic Still washes though

[@khalidsaeedali8756]

@@bakedbeans5494 hay after Sonic frontiers give Sonic new abilities and skills does he counter every item in Mario

[@jkjordon1]

I see a lot of comments saying that mario wins, try looking at this battle from a dragon ball perspective, do you think mario has the combat experience and speed necessary to keep up with super sonic who recently got buffed up in the frontiers game.

[@deroynwaokike4512]

​@@jkjordon1yes

[@knightofgod5368]

Bowser didn't survive the black hole in super mario galaxy. It's clearly shown that the lumas sacrificed themselves to save the universe from being destroyed, and if they didn't, everyone would die. If the arguement is that bowser has universal durability because he's shown to be alive at the end, then I could argue peach's castle is universal durability because it's still intact at the end. You could argue that in super mario galaxy 2 bowser survived the black hole, but a couple of things I need to mention about that. First is that the black hole in 2 was not nearly as powerful as the universe destroying one in the first game. Second is that bowser had absorbed the power of the grand star, which could have helped with his survival. Third, is that Mario is shown to be using his environment to beat bowser, i.e. the miniture planets. It's not like mario was straight up punching him, so we can't just assume Mario has galaxy levels of attack potency. Lastly, durability does not equal attack potency. If I were to survive getting hit by a car, it doesn't mean I can hit someone with the same force of a car going 60 mph. So even if Mario and Bowser survived all of that, they most likely couldn't apply the same force in fighting.

[@excaliber596]

This has actually been brought to my attention in an earlier comment, so I agree with most of this, but allow me to play devil's advocate. 1. Even if the lumas did save him, he still had to tank the initial blast before the lumas had gotten there, putting him close to those levels of durability 2. In the Galaxy 2 battle, Mario was still hitting the planetoids with enough force to damage Bowser upon impact, which means his punches would be close to if not higher than the force of the planetoids hitting him. Think of a Newton's Cradle situation except only the 1st, 2nd, and 4th balls were there. The 1st would hit the 2nd, but air resistance from where the 3rd would be makes the 2nd ball hit the 4th with less force than the 1st did the 2nd. 3. While I agree that durability does not equal attack potency, Mario and Bowser were able to clash on equal terms many times after, even with these feats accomplished. If Bowser was knocked out by a black hole, it means that similar amounts of force would be needed to knock him out again, meaning that Mario's attack potency would be equal to Bowser durability. The same can be said in reverse as Bowsers power has been shown on many occasions to be comparable to Marios, which means Mario would need a similar durability to survive the attacks.

[@knightofgod5368]

@@excaliber596 I would like to point out though that base sonic is no slouch when it comes to fighting powerful opponets. For example in Sonic Battle, base form sonic was able to take on Ultimate Emerl. This gizoid is no joke, he has 4,000 years of combat experience, the move set of sonic and his friends, the energy from a cluster of destroyed stars, and the seven chaos emeralds. Heck, this guy shattered the Master Emerald while it was being used to negate the chaos emeralds power. This is interesting because it seems the only ones who can do this are those who have a strong link to chaos energy, like Chaos or Knuckles. What makes Sonic impressive in all this is that he went toe to toe with Emerl, and even beating him, in a span of thirty seconds. This was a ten round fight, much longer than thirty seconds, meaning Sonic and Emerl must be move much faster than light for such time dilation to occur. Now, I'm not sure if this changes anything, but I thought it be intersting to point out.

[@excaliber596]

I actually looked at this feat, but I decided not to use it simply because it seemed inconsistant with the rest of the series. Most of Sonics more recent games has his base form taking on more life-wiper level beings like Perfect Chaos and the Egg Robo rather than multi- Solar System like Emerl. It could very well be used as a highball feat tho

[@fuzzie6299]

@@excaliber596 listen to dude if a black hole small black hole could destroy Mario's universe and if bowser barely survived or clearly died and Mario defeated bowser with his galaxy reactor that puts Mario at Star level perfect chaos was equal to supersonic who had unlimited power and could get as strong as he wants and base sonic beat him in gens Base Sonic>>>>>>>>>>>>Mario invincibility Star and as the emerl feat being inconsistent how you can't tell your judging infinite's strength by his casual feats? you debunked the black hole already so there is no need to state it's ''*inconsistent*'' and egg robo was able to create min black holes that sonic casually avoided in lost world 3ds meaning sonic beat someone who could create Multiple Star level black holes do you see my point about how strong sonic is and how fast he is?

[@Daichi-pz8oc]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/nH3UXougaN-Sr7M

[@logeyperogi1805]

I like how he made calculations that genuinely make sense based on canonical content He did what Death Battle was SUPPOSED to do

[@overpopulatedsimulation2640]

lol ikr deathbattle been real quiet since this once,atleast they may there new videos more logical and canonical

[@DraconicInsomniac9815]

Yes

[@fnafbros8771]

Yes

[@KenanVonKaiser]

Except His Calculation Are Wrong And Also Mario Star Form Can Stall Super And Hyper So No Point!

[@fnafbros8771]

@@KenanVonKaiser Starman Mario has a fixed amount of time while super has a lot longer

[@hahyeeloh1891]

"Mario has universal levels of power AT LEAST" *gets knocked out by a mushroom with feet*

[@sezarsurge9037]

the other gets ran into by some betele

[@smiith5]

Yeah, people like this don't know what they're talking about.

[@hahyeeloh1891]

@@smiith5 Hold on, I didn't say that. They still brought up some good points. I was just poking fun at him. Besides, knocking out =/= killing anyways.

[@smiith5]

@@hahyeeloh1891 Did I sound rude? I wasn't trying to.

[@hahyeeloh1891]

@@smiith5 No, not at all.

[@jamainegardner4193]

Debunk: Sonic Battle directly contradicts what you said about Infinite only being Star Level. Ultimate Emerl was so strong that even when Eggman used the Final Egg Blaster to destroy multiple stars in one shot it was barely enough to garner Emerl's attention, then Emerl just casually added that power to his own, meaning Ultimate Emerl is far above casually destroying multiple stars. And yet, in the final fight of the story mode, Base Sonic decides to use his full power and shitstomps Ultimate Emerl in less than 30 seconds. And this is a game that takes place in the Dreamcast Era, between Shadow the Hedgehog and Advance 3. Meanwhile Infinite and the Phantom Death Egg are stated by Eggman to be his most powerful creations yet, surpassing even the Time Eater (which while not created by him was augmented and mechanized by him like the Phantom Ruby), so Base Forces Sonic is roughly comparable to Super Sonic in Generations. The only reason the sun is a threat is because the Phantom Ruby can overwrite reality to make someone less durable.

[@sonlarry2.056]

I agree with what you said completely. And what's crazy is where you would put all the characters you said in "tiers" with all of those factors. Especially if you saying that Base Forces sonic is comparable to Generations Super sonic is true, than sonic in base would just be broken at that point if that is actually true or not. I think Ultimate Emerl with all of his power ups, including all the battle data and abilities he gained from every character in the game would be at High constellation +, if not way higher than that.

[@sonicbattleplayer5762]

You forgot that Tails says Emerl was unstable because of the enormous power he absorbed, meaning while Ultimate Emerl has insane strength & speed, his durability is low, that's why Sonic was able to defeat Ultimate Emerl in less than 30 seconds, Sonic didn't need to hit Emerl too hard to defeat him.

[@khalidsaeedali8756]

​​@@sonicbattleplayer5762Edit:Can you comment on me comment? So i can debunked you argument Edit:@dirtyfighter7751 You don't know how sonic scaling works do you?. Literally only sonic beat him in the end when he absorbs the egg blaster not when he had Chaos emeralds AP wise. Literally base sonic beat base Dark gaia until he goes perfect Dark gaia (which isn't planet-level going by sonic planet not being normal planet with normal energy, Literally sonic was distracted and blinded (by the chaos emerald), which gives Mephiles the chance to back-shot him it's no different from classic knuckles one shot super classic sonic or silver back shot him and when the hell mephiles had moon level feat?. Your entire argument focus on DC instead of AP (which is the thing we scale sonic at instead DC which focuses on range of destruction).

[@khalidsaeedali8756]

@@sonicbattleplayer5762Edit:you kind wrong he was more vulnerable well an way couldn't it contain so much energy maybe, it could mean that his mind couldn’t handle that much power and that he was mentally unstable, also Tails never said/mention Emerl durability get degrees

[@Jdudec367]

How does that somehow mean Ultimate Emerl is above destroying multiple stars? We don't see any feats implying that, he just only then adds his power but that's it. Well the Time Eater still doesn't count and Sonic needed help to beat that thing. Not really, based on feats nothing really implies that, heck Sonic lost to Infinite the first time yet Shadow beat him. What? No the sun is a threat because it's the freaking sun, even Broly from Dragon Ball isn't immune to it.

[@fighter5583]

Honestly, Sonic won the first time they did a death battle between him and Mario. And even since then, Sonic has been through much harder feats that not even Mario could hope of pulling off. I also did hate how they miscalculated Super and Hyper forms. I know they're going by the games, but Mario's invincibility form only lasts 12 seconds while Sonic's form could last for literal minutes (depending on how long you take in the game at least). But outside of that, the Super form could last for days even. Hyper form....yeah, you may wanna call a quits, fast. Since they did this death battle twice, I'm pretty certain they only did it to appease the Mario fan club who was still bitter about the first one.

[@TheSilverPhoenix100]

Honestly though I didnt see any bitterness from Mario fans, I dispise Sonic as he comes across like a 90's kid trying to still be cool and failing outstandingly but they know as i do based off feats Sonic crushes Mario. This comes acorss more like they were trying to piss off Sonic fans so these types of videos get made and it drives up their traffic (ie Superman vs Goku all over again). The overlaying problem with Death battle is its becoming more and more obvious that they are picking the winners and then trying to justify those instead of comapring feats and coming to an actual conclusion. They constantly are scaling based off abilities other characters in the universe have rather than anything the specfic character has shown or leaving out abilities to slant the odds in one characters favor. It seems like they are almost attempting to troll fanbases instead of breakdown who would win a fight

[@fighter5583]

@@TheSilverPhoenix100 I agree. Don't their last few fights have been pretty one-sided, not to mention that they didn't make much sense. I mean, War Machine versus Genos? That didn't sound fair from the start.

[@stalememes6162]

Sonic fucking dies when using feats for both.

[@SonicSwift99]

fighter5583 Forget that, Ben 10 losing to Green Lantern was enough for me to slam my face into a fucking wall.

[@TheSilverPhoenix100]

@@SonicSwift99 yeah that fight was bullshit. Green Lantern don't get me wrong when focused is one of the most powerful heroes in the DC universe and considering that includes characters like Superman, Flash and Wonder Woman that's saying somthing...but Ben 10 has dozens of different aliens with various abilities including one that is basically god

[@SparkyTv_203]

They with messed up hypersonic I'm still pissed about it

[@log-in3864]

agreed

[@isaacjoshdcruz558]

really. sonic is god o hyper, and if your gonna give those two time limits, then how did mario's super star not run out first, that lasts i think 10 secs and sonics' hyper form lasts 10 MINUTES

[@isaacjoshdcruz558]

@Jacob Underwood ok you can argue, but here's my argument. You cannot say that just because they are invicible to some things doesn't mean they can't be damaged by others. if supersonic was beaten, i would be fine IF he DID have all that (mario) but if hyper sonic was like "here comes my true power" then the fight would be over. if it's a fight, then you can't apply a "No Limits Fallacy" as in they can both survive ANYTHING. which is dumb, because is some cases gods can be hurt by stronger gods blah blah. so since that a white metal tanooki is likely 2x better than super, then hyper sonic can damage that since super sonic x7 = hyper, so hyper can definetley overpower a white metal tanooki 3.5x fold

[@isaacjoshdcruz558]

@Jacob Underwood kay i'm not saying time limit really, i'm mostly talking about power and the not the time limits, you won the time limit thing, but i don't really care :/

[@SparkyTv_203]

@Just a Guy 2 Thank you, no one ever understand that but you. Mario is always fight Bowser and saving that hoe peach she ugly anyway. Seriously I'm getting sidetrack the thing sonic has killed universe threats and, the second sonic went hyper, no. He doesn't even need hyper to beat him just his super form and he's done for. Mario's dumb invincibility star is not stronger. NOT his fire flower, ice flower, mega mushroom, tanuki suit, cat suit, Metal cap, or any of his other power ups can stop his super form, hyper form, super dark, darkspine, ultra sonic and more. I'm a Sonic fan who knows information about Mario too, *ALSO STOP GIVING MARIO SONIC FORMS AND SAYING HE CAN USE THEM TO BEAT HIM!!* Unless you give sonic Mario power ups. PS sometime Mario gets a new villain... But sonic has to deal with a new challenge most of THE TIME. OH YEAH *✨TEAM-SONIC✨*

[@Kennyrogers287]

11:27 the sign is the wrong way if he's less powerful than Mario

[@sweenhoe10]

@@SkippeAccented it was pointed at Mario so if he was weaker than Mario it was the wrong way

[@blueblade9063]

Mario < Sonic Mario is less than Sonic

[@Xcopyz]

@@blueblade9063 Agreed. Even some the logic in this video has some flaws, proving Mario isn't stronger than Sonic in base. "Mario defeated Bowser. Who took the nuclear explosion of the sun!" But how did he do it? Using the *Luma's* power to spin strike and directly knock power around. He also didn't survive a blackhole because he's just badass, because then you'd have to say Princess Peach could tank a blackhole explosion that makes her galaxy level too. They survived because Rosalina and the lumas saved them. I repeat. The lumas saved them. If Mario was super badass, he'd just beat the hell out of it. Instead of waiting for it to sleep.

[@kirbyboycoolness6734]

Alice Margatroid Luma just gave Mario the spin ability. It was Mario’s own power that defeated Bowser. But I agree on the supernova thing, they were protected, though Bowser probably died.

[@Xcopyz]

@@kirbyboycoolness6734 Debatable about Mario's own power.

[@kingave64]

In Sonic battle Sonic beat Emerl, who had the power of multiple stars, this is because Eggman used the final egg blaster to destroy stars when Eggman says “Look at all of thos destroyed stars.” then he says to Emerl “Ready to start capturing energy?” Not to mention Emerl also had the chaos emeralds, then sonic beat him 1v1 in under 30 seconds. Also, Sonic battle is canon, since there is Gemerl in Sonic Advance 3 who is obviously based off of Gemerl. Then there is Sonic and the secret rings where Sonic ran all the way back to his dimension as well as him being able to beat Erazor Djinn, who destroyed the stories which are universes in Sonic (well that is what I have heard) and defeated him in base form(I am also talking about base Erazor, not Alf wayla wa layla). Those are some of the feats you didn’t mention for Sonic in the video for sonic.

[@ultimate8125]

EMERL MENTIONED 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@oranghue6866]

ACTUALLY there is proof that Mario’s rainbow star is limited in invincibility. In New Super Mario Bros Wii, and U, there is an enemy known as King bill. This is the largest bullet bill in the Mario universe, and it is capable of surviving the rainbow star.

[@firebluetoad3990]

Wii and U doesn't have the Rainbow Star though. They only have the regular Super Star.

[@boywegiwagi1705]

Steel sonic can win and that not changed

[@firebluetoad3990]

Wegiwagi Boy Sonic can win, but Mario can win too.

[@CallMeAed]

Ok but if mario touches lava ded acid ded If he isn't inv gomba kills him koppa trupa ded wiggler one finaly MY BOI CHEEP CHEEP A FISH CAN KILL MARIO IF HE IS NOT USING A SUPER STAR

[@nickedits9273]

Orang Hue why is everyone talking about the star the white toonooki suit makes him into a literal beast the only thing that can kill him in tag form is pits

[@speedytheassassin5262]

Okay This was the only good debunk video I have seen on Death Battles Mario vs Sonic The Research was accurate and I agree with this

[@ryancasey9763]

look at the one from kuro the artist where he argues ben 10 can beat green lantern

[@tayclark42]

@Guy With A Dumb Name he is right tho lol

[@kex2247]

@Guy With A Dumb Name yes

[@stormblitz979]

@Speedy The Assassin Also I do recall in the first Sonic vs Mario death battle they did they stated even if they Changed up some or all data Sonic will always win their words not mine

[@sayer4148]

@Kaiser Isaiah Foo and then they say that Mario can use the Stop Watch from Super Mario Bros 2. A game that, let me remind you, was a DREAM.

[@Jam-og1km]

4:29 to be fair bowser was only seen again after the universe reset, so either he survived inside the black hole or he died from the supernova, still he survived a dip in a sun and seemed to be more tired than damaged after

[@floatingf8783]

The only offical answer is from a guide saying Bowser SURVIVED that.

[@zichithefox4781]

The moment anyone brings up Hyper Sonic in a "what if" scenario, instantly sends me into sceptic mode. Hyper Sonic is an area even most fans don't dive into. It's like forbidden territory, but in the good sense. They need to bring him back to answer a lot of questions. It would just be nice to see him again.

[@jasonnguyen1072]

Zichi Hammertail, not to mention it’s outside help. So you can’t really use the Hyper Form unless Sonic was fighting in the Master Emerald Shrine or it was a lucky that he prepped them all beforehand.

[@T_Dude]

Ah, good point. Would be awesome if Hyper Sonic appears in Frontiers, especially considering Knuckles is protecting the Master Emerald again.

[@zichithefox4781]

@@T_Dude Sonic Frontiers looks promising. I'm hoping for a good story that deviates from the norm, and a fun game. If they bring back Hyper Sonic, I hope they do it in a cool way.

[@Speariture]

Facts, Hyper Sonic is underrated and feels forgotten

[@zichithefox4781]

@MoloTurbo Exsctly. Even that is just assumption. We have almost nothing on Hyper Sonic.

[@zeroxeroFX]

I refuse to support them anymore. Even when they are right. They’re a joke, I only watch the debunked episodes now.

[@Fang1st]

I stopped watching after the Yang vs Tifa fight, that was the literal epitome of bias for Yang and I gave up hope in the channel.

[@michaelrhett4958]

Fang1st at least the fight was entertaining

[@sophiazari9643]

Brian B YEAH THEY MADE BATMAN BEAT GOKU IN A EPISODE AND IN JUMP FORCE VS SMASH BROS ULTIMATE THEY MADE SUPER SONIC ONE SHOT ALL MIGHT, DEKU, AND ALMOST BEAT SSB GOKU. TRASH RESEARCH. THEY MADE MASTER CHIEF BEAT THE GUY FROM DOOMSLAYER. THEY ALSO MADE DOOMSDAY BEAT DBZ BROLY. well yeah they didn’t do research on that episode with Broly vs Doomsday but they should know Broly would whoop Doomsday.

[@Fang1st]

@@michaelrhett4958 that's not the point. Because of their partnering with rooster teeth it was impossible for yang to lose, thus no point in the episode other than to show yang kill someone random, in this case tifa

[@TheWarriorVA]

@@sophiazari9643 That's Rumble Rewind not fucking Death Battle.

[@memememe7081]

Deathbattle: Smash Bros is canon. Sonic fans: Well Sonic outran a black hole as an item? and Mario didn't, how come you guys never featured that? And can't Metal Mario be damaged? Death Battle: Sonic fans: Death battle:

[@alexbaribeault]

Everyone is freaking out because they showed a trophy description. Lmao. Calm your tits. Since trophies present trivia facts on the canon lore of the characters, they thought it would be good statement to support thier argument. I'm not saying I agree with it, I'm just saying it's not a big deal. It's not like they took feats from the Subspace Emissary into account.

[@ahmadkazan7994]

@Jacob Underwood Yeah the game is about a guy playing with toys.

[@weaseldude6484]

Mario can casually swim away from a black hole.

[@phantomblue2798]

And yet in Smash Mario couldn't even react to a cannon ball, even Sephiroth at that! (Both which weren't even going anywhere close to the speed of sound.) If it was so obvious that Mario has speedsters level of reaction time to keep up with Sonic, then why didn't Sakurai make him seem to have light-speed reaction time? Better yet, why didn't Miyamoto told Sakurai "STOP! Do not include those scenes! Mario is supposed to have FTL reaction."? Sakurai: "LOL! WTF Miyamoto? 😆"

[@friskycalibri2293]

@@weaseldude6484 and Sonic can Fight against a massive robot with the power to make Black Holes inside of a black hole in Sonic Riders Zero Gravity. What's your fucking point.

[@SuperSamTheHam]

I mean sonic could carry power ups in lost world... just saying

[@7rhymes599]

Sonic characters are also shown to carry wisps in Team Sonic Racijg. Dont know if it is canon, but in game you never have to use your wisp, and you can multiply them by handing 1 to a friend, who gets 3.

[@floatingf8783]

Can he carry 36?

[@jasonnguyen1072]

Yeah and in that game, the wisp Sonic carries and the Chaos Emeralds are considered *SEPARATE*.

[@SuperSamTheHam]

@@jasonnguyen1072 what the hell do you mean "seperate"

[@jasonnguyen1072]

SuperSamTheHam, I mean that they are separate from the suitcase. So the Chaos Emeralds taking up Sonic’s storage space is no longer true.

[@Wi_Mando2007]

Sonic is faster than light in his base form. you have to look at the perfect chaos fight from sonic adventure & generatoins very closly. in sonic adventure the only way to damage chaos was to go at or near light speed so you can ram into chaos & in generatoins sonic took on perfect chaos almost in the same way ramming into him at light speed. In his base form

[@WrongJoke06]

@4theconz 08 Plus Sonic was on a literal Life or Death Time Limit so he'd NEED to be quick in that scenario.

[@shiori00]

@4theconz 08 i thought Secret Rings wasn't canon because the storybook games weren't canon

[@aniocitex1131]

@@shiori00 In generations sonic mentions sonic and the secret rings

[@the_supern0va238]

@@WrongJoke06 Technically no. The flame was only put there by Erazor Djinn who Sonic defeated before he started running universe to universe. Still makes him stupidly fast though.

[@WrongJoke06]

@@the_supern0va238 Sonic needed to collect the World Rings in a time limit or else he'd die. The Flame was removed after he returned the Rings to Erazor Djinn

[@rbsgo2]

Mario: WITH THESE FORMS I AM ALLMIGHTY! Sonic: Tails, hold my rings.

[@stephenwells6434]

Tails: But Sonic, don't you need those rings to maintain your super form? Sonic: Oh crap. (Loses)

[@stephenwells6434]

@Just a Guy 2 I'm aware of that. I was making a joke.

[@victimz0014]

Just a Guy 2 yeah but even than sonic does have a limit of time he can be in his hyper form

[@stephenwells6434]

@Just a Guy 2 Actually, no, the rings aren't just a gameplay mechanic. I just remembered a scene in Sonic Generations where Tails was having a conversation about the rings with his past self, which shows that they actually exist in canon. Also, Tails created a bomb based on the rings in Sonic Heroes.

[@stephenwells6434]

@Just a Guy 2 It doesn't need to be stated. They literally show it. Sonic clearly has a limited time that he can be in his super form. It is confirmed that Sonic really is collecting rings and it is not just a game mechanic. Every time Sonic has gone super, the amount of time he can spend in that form corresponds to the number of rings he has collected. Thus, logically, the rings' energy (and they are confirmed to have energy, btw) is what fuels his transformation. By the way, we may get lines like that in boss battles but never in cutscenes, and the conversation between the two Tails is in a cutscene. And that's not the only time rings have been referenced in cutscenes.

[@shadowxcreeper6847]

Yes~! Thank you for representing the facts~ I thought it was major BS that Mario survived against Hyper Sonic~ Super sonic, yeah but not Hyper Sonic

[@darhfoxter]

Even Super Sonic would beat Mario, if you keep things to the facts. Sure, Mario’s 10 second star....oh wait, Super Sonic lasts 50 seconds, Mario would need five stars to out last Super Sonic’s increased speed and high damage resistance.

[@nitgen99]

@@darhfoxter Actually, Super Sonic Can Last For Days, Sonic Advance 2 States This.

[@darhfoxter]

Super Sonic uses ring energy and consumes one ring a second, give or take, and the minimal amount of rings to use the form is 50. That being said, if Sonic has access to the rings he could possibly stay in the form for as long as he wanted. Hyper Sonic is the same deal, except I think he consumes rings faster, but I'm not sure. I never really paid attention, so...

[@nitgen99]

@@darhfoxter In Sonic Advance 2, Sonic Lasts In The Super Form For Days, Almost a Week Without Running Out. Rings Are Game Machanics.

[@nitgen99]

@@kirbygames6491 Rings are Game Machanics. Hell, In Sonic 2, There Are No Rings on the Death Egg But Sonic Still Transforms Afterwards, So....

[@psi_mae]

1 major issues. In the cutscene Mario didn’t even have the chance to attack him. As a matter of fact, if you actually play subspace any fighter can defeat Tabuu.

[@AfroMing]

NintendoPlushWorld true, but one can still make the argument for gameplay and for cutscene canon.

[@ToaArcan]

Only after Sonic weakens him.

[@excaliburzx1134]

Dan Gleeson that hardly weakens Tabuu, if he was weakened he would have had some damage to his health it was more like Sonic just delayed Tabuu from attacking with his signature move along with that the reason Mario and many of the others were defeated is because they all came to attack Tabuu at the same time and not knowing Tabuu’s signature move can decimate everyone

[@ToaArcan]

@@excaliburzx1134 It makes the Off-Wave survivable, and in the boss Tabuu can't just casually one-hit kill anyone that tries to attack him, like he did to Ganondorf and Master Hand.

[@AfroMing]

@@excaliburzx1134 Here's a rebuttal. If an enemy can fly and you break their wings or at the very least cripple them, then you weaken them by placing a handicap. Take the Falcon from the MCU, not only is his thing flight, but also weaponry. Combined with his flight, he's a pretty hard to deal with target for your average enemy soldier. However, if you take those wings away and ground him, the playing field is more leveled. Also, if you crippled his wings to where he could still fly, but couldn't maneuver as efficiently or nearly as so, then you make him a much easier to hit target in the air. That would count as a handicap as the enemy (Falcon) is weakened by this. None of these handicaps weakens his fire-power, but it increases the chance of defeating the enemy. Who knows what Tabuu would be able to really do in that fight with his wings in tact. It took everyone there to fight the guy. However, due to his broken wings, any ability that uses them was severely lessened. So yeah, thank god Sonic broke his wings otherwise RIP Smash universe.

[@senjugiku]

if we were talking about comic sonic, it's game over from the start

[@isaaccruz7080]

Really lol

[@TheDave658]

Its like when making the comics there kids giving themselves powers he is just op

[@Ebb-m2d]

But sonic fight way stronger people like knuckles

[@shardsoftime0952]

WOW DO YOU COMPARE ARCHIE SONIC TO MARIO

[@dynamicjackstorm]

Why do sonic fanboys always mention Archie sonic the second he loses a battle

[@Fang1st]

While I agree that the toph vs garra fight was poorly done, I don't think using a character's very first move in their show to compare to a character's in game super move to be a fair side by side view. That aside, we are all in agreement that DB is very... very lacking in logic in a lot of matters in their recent videos

[@corvusx5674]

*Cough* Ben 10 vs Green Lantern *Cough*

[@Fang1st]

@@corvusx5674 most definitely that one as well.

[@epiccarrot88]

@@corvusx5674 I mean, sometimes they get the right result for the wrong reasons. Ben 10 vs. Green Lantern is one of them. The Omnitrix would be unlikely to detect the threat Green Lantern poses to Ben, due to the fact that emotional energy doesn't exist in the Ben 10 universe. In order to choose the right alien to turn Ben in to the Omnitrix would need to know what the threat is. And it wouldn't know what the Green Lantern ring is. Any other main Justice League member would be detectable, but not Green Lantern. And then it's just a speed blitz, especially since Ben would expect the Omnitrix to react. Death Battle's logic was stupid, but even when they get their research wrong (which is pretty much every battle (I still can't believe Zero somehow beat Metal Overlord who is unharmed by Super Sonic)), they still have a 50/50 chance of getting the right result with their terrible research. Kirby beats Buu, Wonder Woman beats Thor, Lucario beats Renamon etc.

[@corvusx5674]

@@epiccarrot88 Except Ben beats Hal Jordon as the literal version they used is a combination of feats from different versions of Hal Jordan role into one

[@epiccarrot88]

@@corvusx5674 As I said, terrible research. I'm not defending them, but they got the right result by chance. Post-crisis Hal still speed blitzes due to the Omnitrix's lack of data on emotional energy.

[@Jman88933]

"There are only 2 characters who've damaged Super Sonic" Looks like someone forgot Knuckles.

[@Babsmeme]

One theory is that the phantom ruby caused this.

[@broski6371]

To be fair, he was caught super off guard and it was extremely out of nowhere.

[@Jman88933]

@@broski6371 Haha I know. I was just messing with the creator of this video. Edit: Though how is it possible to catch an invincible character off guard?

[@natendolocked7821]

@@broski6371 you do know super sonic was going at full speed when knuckles punched him right, not only did he get there in time to punch him but also was fast and strong enough to match his speed to knock them out. I really miss the old knuckles ......

[@broski6371]

@@Jman88933 he's not invincible. He's just really tough.

[@billbolt9458]

14:36 Ima have to stop you right there. Sonic 3: Knuckles bumped into Super Sonic and took his emeralds. Conclusion: Knuckles is god

[@darksonicyt5430]

Billbolt ! Knuckles vs donkey Kong.

[@meymeyman3127]

Phantom ruby

[@apikamain3yearsago941]

Master Emerald can weaken the chaos emeralds Knuckles isn't that strong

[@ccateni28]

No, super sonic was caught off guard. Did unleashed taught you nothing?

[@billbolt9458]

@@ccateni28 knuckles is tougher than the rest if them

[@billbeauxduxxworthe3849]

14:35 That's a funny way to say *KNUCKLES THE GOD DAMN ECHIDNA*

[@AnonyBoiii]

I’d rather like to think that: - Sonic was still getting use to the super form as S3&K takes place after S2 which is the second game that super sonic appears in chronologically, therefore it is much weaker. But in later games (06, unleashed, colours, generations, etc.) he would have better control over it, along with just being more powerful in base - Knuckles could’ve absorbed enough power from the master emerald to be able to cancel out super sonic since the soul purpose of the master emerald is literally to control the chaos emeralds (SA1 and SA2) So in my eyes, it’s less of ‘damaging’ super sonic, but more so ‘cancelling out’ the chaos powers of super sonic, much like how Dark Gaia weakens the chaos emeralds

[@billbeauxduxxworthe3849]

@@AnonyBoiii bruh he bopped the shit out of him

[@arxei2436]

@@billbeauxduxxworthe3849 Solaris and Dark Gaia: Gods Knuckles : power of *BONK*

[@titanictnt7476]

@@arxei2436 Dark Gaia is planet level... Not a god.

[@arxei2436]

@@titanictnt7476 yeah mb i was just trying to put it for the joke should've just put solaris there

[@muslimsarehot3693]

Hyper sonic and star power Mario :were invisnsible Bottomless pit : I'm about to end these men's whole career

[@slothoverlord4388]

Bottomless pits are the strongest video game characters

[@forgettingdamage7781]

@@slothoverlord4388 Super underated characters too

[@cloroxhammer3289]

Don't forget blocks that can crush them, no abilities with invincibility can save them from being crushed by a brick from the ceiling.

[@matthewplays7232]

Lava: *intense laughter*

[@Lanoman123]

Impeccable grammar

[@mexicantails751]

Last time: Sonic wins because he's sonic. This time: Mario wins because cartoon physics.

[@somebody7226]

It's because Nintendo was mad at Screw Attack for letting their "Star" get killed by a hedgehog, and then paid Screw Attack to make Mario win (This is not actually true)

[@cloroxhammer3289]

@@somebody7226 Best conspiracy I've heard this year.

[@floatingf8783]

@@cloroxhammer3289 Pizzagate: Am I a joke to you?

[@ahmadkazan7994]

Actually,sonic is all around the faster and more durwble and speed outlasts strength amd is a factor in the force of an attack,so Sonic wins in any case.

[@AlloyAmi]

@@ahmadkazan7994 how is he more durable? sonic himself doesnt even reach universal and marios taking on MULTI UNIVERSAL multiversal and even HIGH multiversal threats. www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/comments/bc456p/no_super_sonic_isnt_universal/ and mario was calculated to be over a QUINTILLION times faster than light since bowser tagged starship mario which can travel through a cluster of galaxies in SECONDS, and 1 quintillion already is a low ball if you think thats crazy.. marrio even has feats of infinite speed as shown when he dodged the zeekeeper who moves in dimentional rigts which are ABSENT OF TIME which makes them both infinite speed, he moved in the void which erases concepts which includes time, he was able to move completely fine on a time stopped tick tock clock, and he was able to fight culex who is literally a MASTER of space and time and can move in areas absent of time

[@SalaComMander]

Just want to point out; Super Sonic can stand on lava, which instantly kills Mario even with an invincibility star.

[@maximumevil8673]

oh the only person who realizes dis tho

[@guuurgle]

mario 64 would like to know your location

[@SalaComMander]

@Soul King You say that as if they don't consider game mechanics.

[@SalaComMander]

@GGR Makes Naturally, but what I'm getting at is that not all invincibilities are equal. Super Sonic is more durable than Starman Mario.

[@internetloser2336]

Just want to point out; Super Sonic can drown under water but Mario can breathe no problem.

[@16BitGamerCat]

To those saying that knuckles hurt super sonic: Yes. Technically he did disrupt the super form. However, there are special factors in play. One, Sonic was new to using the super form. Sonic 3 was immediately after Sonic 2. Two, Knuckles sucker-punched Super Sonic, which when combined with factor one makes it plausible that the emeralds could be knocked out of Sonic if he got hit hard enough. Sonic wouldn't have been holding the emeralds as tightly because he wasn't prepared to get hit. And finally, Sonic adventure made a point that the master emerald could nullify the chaos emeralds. This means that Knuckles, who knows how to use the master emerald, could have weakened the super form, making it easier to disrupt.

[@G.o.d_k.i]

That's true

[@Leticia-6-20-15]

Everyone should know this if they saw the sonic 3 introduction scene.

[@nicholas2153]

Alternatively, we can say how it is, it's a scene there specifically to have a reason why we don't have all the emeralds at the start of the game. The main problem is that we shouldn't be treating that as a serious scene when all it is is an excuse to not be OP at the start of the game.

[@danm2068]

Pretty well made video. Althou using powerscaling against Death Battle is pretty easy to do sense they don't solely rely on powerscaling unless the characters lack personal feats or has the exact same power. Although, a few minor things to point out. 1:33 - I'm sure you're aware of Death Battle 4th rule. But the thing is about canon in Death Battle, is that whenever they use non-canon materials, it's just for *supporting evidence* whenever a feat is vague. They're not saying the cartoon or anime are canon, They're just using them to justify a feat. 12:30 - Using trophies and Smash bros story mode are not the same. Because in Subspace story, the characters are all trophy toys. But the trophies descriptions however, is where it describes the trophy's origin. (Even when the whole game is not canon) Althou, I agree, nerfing Super sonic speed because of Smash bros is absurd. But I don't think that's the case, since they refered "Super is near the speed of light" in previous episodes before Smash bros 4.

[@excaliber596]

Dan M Thanks for watching friend, I appreciate it. I’d like to refute your points a bit if that’s ok. 1. I actually did not know the Death Battle rules, so thanks for bringing that to my attention, but either way, it’s my personal opinion that evidence, even the if it’s only supporting evidence, shouldn’t be used unless it’s either canon or a very similar point. For example, I use the sonic comics to support my point in Hyper Sonics multiplier because its basically the exact same feat as something that happens within the series. 2. Although the Subspace Emmisary and smash trophies are 2 different concepts, I believe that if someone uses 1 part of the game for analysis, they should use the whole thing. Although these are just my personal ways of doing things.

[@hybridepsilon2099]

Excaliber596 - Sword Boi and Duccck I guess i large part of how a vs debate goes down is about how one interprets the evidence and what does he do out of it, from the way see it. Think Sonic should win in a battle against Mario but i can respect anyone whose opinion states otherwise.

[@garytina7009]

Y'see, even the Trophy descriptions aren't canon regardless because of Mewtwo's Smash 4 trophy description saying it has a "light body". This is just factually wrong, it's 269 pounds. Making it the heaviest playable Pokemon in Smash bros by a fairly decent margin. Yeah sure, the Melee description says it being light ingame is due to it "floating a lot" (which doesn't make any god damn sense in its own right), but that's a completely different thing from saying Mewtwo has a LIGHT BODY. Point is, trophy descriptions SHOULD NOT be used as evidence unless they are specifically from the Smash bros universe and not from an outside franchise. And yes, I do understand that you too believe DB using that description as evidence is absurd, but the point stands, all things considered.

[@matthewwylie2735]

YO *clap* MA MAN *clap* That was the single best supported and most well thought out debunk ever. You did a spectacular job!

[@lefeeshchopped8286]

This is completely accurate I loved that animation but still

[@wolfspidervers1150]

Yeah, thay aren't exactly accurate. It's like would you rather, would you rather have a battle that has good animation but it's inaccurate, or a battle that is accurate but has crappy animation, it's one or the other not in between, unfortunately.

[@lefeeshchopped8286]

@@wolfspidervers1150 yup pretty much and it's really unfortunate

[@bellattery]

@@lefeeshchopped8286 They do this for views purely its why i only watch it for entertainment and debate with people who actually gives a shit lol. Sonic is OP with emeralds there is no denying it he can basically fight IG gauntlent Thanos with Super emeralds or fight HOTU Thanos with the Master emerald dont believe me? look up ultra Sonic , Master Mongul, Imperator X and Enerjak these mother fuckers are OP.

[@lefeeshchopped8286]

@@bellattery I know right although hyper sonic would be more 7 times more powerful than ultra sonic, I can explain why if you want, just ask lol

[@bellattery]

@@lefeeshchopped8286 Dude no i know as well, 7 Super emeralds? people debate Sonic with 7 Super emeralds is basically another "enerjak" and will become nearly omnipotent after that its been theorized already lmao. The fans themselves stated Hyper SOnic is impervious to all physical harm, speed is infinite, physical stats are uncalcuable and has more power of chaos control than anyone it proven by other enemies and protagonists using the master emeralds energy at its max makes you deity level power nearly unbeatable to ordinary opponents.

[@ChargedTheHedgehog]

5 years later and I kinda realized something. In sonic the Hedgehog, 2006. The power of 2 chaos emeralds was powerful enough to travel to the past.

[@ThatJan]

I can't stop staring at this guys invisible pants

[@gamemesa]

Heh gay...

[@jbd741]

14:34 Not true, Knuckles was able to hit the chaos emeralds out of super sonic in sonic 3 and big arms has a slam attack that can hurt super sonic as well.

[@ecid1176]

I think he didn't use that due to modern sonic being strong enough to tank that while that classic. But big arms is valid but solaris and time eater feats are kinda valid since sonic was pretty much 1v1ing solaris in 1 timeline while the other shadow and silver 1v1 in another timeline. And time eater is pretty much going against two super sonics one weaker and one stronger.

[@jbd741]

@@ecid1176 well he said entire series, but I know what you mean, Sonic has shown a lot of growth in power as the games go on so that makes sense.

[@bellattery]

@@jbd741 PiS name one time it happened again especially since there are enemies far stronger in archie comics such as Enerjak the avatar how come he couldnt perform that that same feat again? My point is people latch on to things like this because they can't comprehend how strong someone is so they use anything they can to dismiss their actual full potential.

[@nitgen99]

Big Arm was a Glitch, Sega never Knew anyone would reach that with Super Sonic Because of the Long Sequence that Takes place before Hand.

[@apikamain3yearsago941]

Master Emerald can weaken the chaos emeralds Knuckles isn't that strong

[@Cruzer108]

May I have to say...BEN FING 10 AND GREEN LANTURN PLEASE DONT GET ME STARTED

[@Hypershadic23]

YO FIRST THEY DO MY MAIN MAN SONIC DIRTY AND THEN MY BOI BEN 10 HELL NO

[@Hypershadic23]

Shadow Freddy Ben lost to a pair of scissors....Ben Tennyson...the wielder of the Omnitrix...one of the most powerful weapons in the universe...lost to a pair or scissors.

[@Hypershadic23]

Shadow Freddy i don’t give a sh*+ about comedic effect. Do you god damn jobs!

[@PhotonDragon16]

@@Hypershadic23 dont forget what they did to Alien X in that video

[@Hypershadic23]

@@PhotonDragon16 iTs nErF oR nOtHiNg

[@anotherconsumer3044]

Death Battle: *says anything* Debunkers: Uhm, actually--

[@AnonyBoiii]

To be fair, Death Battle has a massive habit and history of horribly misinterpreting/intentionally excluding certain information in order to make their content look and sound better So, while I do think debunkers can be excessive to a degree, Death Battle gives them these opportunities too much through not doing their job very well at all

[@Blue-Apple-fc9eo]

@@AnonyBoiii yea but still

[@chriswentz5197]

@@AnonyBoiii like in Green Lantern Vs ben 10,where Somehow Hal wins over Alien x,Ben transformation that is literally one of strongest Character in fiction,and in Omniverse,Alien x taked the Universe Being erased on his face and then revived it

[@Blue-Apple-fc9eo]

@@chriswentz5197 But by the end of the day I think it’s just entertainment and not for taking seriously

[@spectraphantom5870]

@@chriswentz5197 Actually there are aliens in the Omnitrix that’s stronger then Alien X, so if a Celestialsapien could just blink and someone would be gone…imagine something stronger And you remember the Dagon? It’s confirmed that the Omnitrix can contain its DNA. Plus they really low ball strong characters for no reason. And everyone who stands by them likes to say “They most likely ran the numbers”

[@mersunarytigre]

Do a "How strong is Megaman video." He's so underrated.

[@smudged4090]

Yeah! I'd love to see some kind of megaman video. I consume megaman videos for breakfast

[@pabloc4204]

you can see a litle bit of it with polygon david brian gilbert megamen video

[@mersunarytigre]

@@pabloc4204 It's a fun vid, but doesn't go in depth beyond a few lines from the Megaman Field Guide. Especially given how stuff like Astroman being a literal dimension creator gets ignored.

[@VariableZero]

mersunarytigre Well, he’s at the very least faster than literal lightning, being able to fight toe-to-toe with Quick Man (who’s speed is what I just mentioned). Also, Mega Man was able to catch a 60,000 ton castle from falling on him and Dr. Light.

[@sircaptainchaos345]

Honestly, neither Mario or sonic would 100% win because their are an infinite amount of variables, therefore it is impossible to truly know who would win in a fight

[@HamsterTMS]

Your information of course is going to be a lot more accurate than Death Battle's information because it's quite obvious with a lot of false and missing information in the episode itself, that episode would turn out as a big piece of propaganda

[@amuter16]

@Hamster TMS Mario still wins

[@sussybaka3648]

Fun fact: The Time Stop isn’t even a canon power-up. Mario 2 was literally all a dream.

[@mirak1934]

Wait fr? XD

[@sussybaka3648]

@@mirak1934 yep, the ending of Mario Bros 2 is Mario waking up.

[@TTVJOJO41323]

@Sussy Baka But everything in Mario is canon still. If 06 can be used after being erased then so can Mario 2

[@sussybaka3648]

@@TTVJOJO41323 nope because Mario 2 literally did not happen it was a dream, 06 DID HAPPEN IT HAPPENED REAL TIME IN THE REAL WORLD

[@TTVJOJO41323]

​@@sussybaka3648 my point still stands. It counts. Doesnt matter if everything is canon

[@PJ92586]

This brought me to tears, thank you for bringing common sense to KZbin because bad enough Sonic has a bad rap for bad games as of recently years but underestimating him is not ok. Thank you so much.

[@amuter16]

@Paul Harris Mario actually still wins

[@BluLobstaDude]

@ggeasy Sonic still slams Mario

[@mirak1934]

@@amuter16 bro Mario isn’t even galaxy lvl, people say that because He ToOk A BlAcK hOle when in scale Mario’s black hole is NOTHING compared to an ACTUAL black whole. Also Earth could eat the planets Mario was on 10 times over. Mario is just a plumber dude, just stick with that.

[@amuter16]

@@mirak1934 you serious?

[@david_cool427YT]

@@mirak1934 A yes a plumber who could carry an entire castle and punt it like a feather and can breathe in space with no astronaut gear and can jump several times his own height and survive a huge fall from a high building on his feet. How is Mario "jUsT a bLuMbEr tO yOu???"

[@Moss_Dude]

I'd say the confusion between the power of the invincibility star and super/hyper sonic is because the star doesn't really have a way to show it's limits other than dying by lava poison and bottomless pits, which is more of a "you fell down and will never get back up so next life"

[@mailman636break3]

Alexander Martens Yeah and supersonic been killed from a pet or being crushed is no different to always have the limitations but no one is going to recognise it

[@SonicSwift99]

Mailman 636 Break Super Sonic kills anything he touches so he can’t die by an enemy unless it’s a full on God like Solaris. He can be crushed though, you are very right about that

[@thundrr1929]

Yeah, and besides, let's remember that Super Sonic actually does survive in lava, with even only a Fire Shield.

[@ahmadkazan7994]

@@BlandyBoiYT huh?Sonic with a fire shield and super sonic can withstand lava.

[@titanictnt7476]

@@SonicSwift99 Same could be said about Mario’s Starman though. He kills basic enemies by merely touching them.

[@adamxue6096]

A very common saying to prove that it is dumb to factor super star and super form as both being completely invincible regardless of anything else has a very classic explanation and example: Ganon can only be defeated by the Master Sword, he is other wise "invincible" by that definition. So... Ganon should be able to, since he cannot be defeated, literally beat up the entire world regardless of who he is facing and where ever the heck he is? Yeah no, the logic starts to fall apart and this is why the method of induction isn't actually very good.

[@spectraphantom5870]

I’m surprised no one talks about Darkspine Sonic (Sonic and the Secret Rings) or Excalibur Sonic (Sonic and the Black Knights)

[@kingofhedgy9421]

It's because those games are bad

[@LightLemon.]

@@kingofhedgy9421 LOL i wont disagree with you but also because those games are.. kinda not canon? they are but they arent

[@irkenpony17]

@@LightLemon. doesn’t he mention secret rings about “defeating genies” in generations? And in Forces upon seeing classic Sonic, Tails recognizes him from when he appeared in generations. so are the story book games canon?

[@LightLemon.]

@@irkenpony17 story book series is mentioned in generations which means it happen... but considering he cant even use the secret rings since he would have to go into the story book again which im sure is never gonna happen

[@LightLemon.]

@@irkenpony17 also he never defeated a genie in generations lol

[@Luxai]

Star powerup and white tanooki suit: invincible Also both these things: Still dies to lava and falling.

[@chuckordinaasserordaorwhat7682]

Hyper Sonic isn't damaged by lava or poison the falling thing is a game mechanic cuz base form Sonic can survive a fall from space we see him survive in unleashed in his normal form and in his werehog form which is weaker than his base form.

[@camtalksports]

Dina Asser even hypersonic can still get crushed and that’s it still counts as him losing a life

[@titanictnt7476]

@@camtalksports So Mario could win by ground-pounding Hyper Sonic?

[@loogi_is_die]

@@titanictnt7476 he could drop a tree to kill him

[@Youmustdierghtnow]

​@@titanictnt7476pretty sure he can dodge or thats only in games

[@apex2000]

I always figured Hypersonic is x2 supersonic. Since 1 master emerald empowers the 7 while still powering the whole island. & can function as a set of 7 alone for mechasonic.

[@Serena_Maeve]

I personally think that it's a 7x multiplier on super sonic. I think one super emerald has the power of 7 chaos emeralds.

[@ojutay8375]

apex2000 I think it’s a 1000 times Super Sonic

[@FsAlpha24]

Geoffrey now that is just a big stretch

[@misdreavuscharizard4934]

It has *literal* infinite power It was still capable of Angel Island float Probably due to it being whole

[@thegamingpesant2880]

Damn dude. You really know your facts! Good job on the video!

[@EliasKoiner-xj5eb]

There is a reason people use "death battle ahh scaling😭😭🙏🙏" as an insult.

[@Exceed492]

Finally, a proper sonic vs mario debunk. I hate it when people low ball Sonic's super froms!

[@Bimby_1234]

Yeah I’m not a huge sonic fan and more of a Mario fan but even sonic seemed too weak in that match and I don’t know crap about him

[@Tsuki11223]

YEA

[@tolamemes3662]

Same and I like the whey it was a close fight but really hypersonic could flick him in the head and it would kill him

[@swagmasterr6862]

Yea well I hate it when people don't believe that super star and the white tanooki strength

[@Tsuki11223]

@@swagmasterr6862 Alright Lets try Not To Start An Argument So Lets All Calm Down Ok???

[@themoviemaker29]

I just hate how death battle is so close minded, as soon as they find one point they close the book.

[@BladeSpeedDemon95]

Not only are they close minded.. They're biased as hell too sometimes

[@JG_Wentworth]

@@BladeSpeedDemon95 *most times*

[@lynxfresh5214]

Pride is both a delicate yet powerful thing (no wonder it's considered the one sin, no mortal can escape). Its DBs pride that will always prevent them from (openly) admitting a match was wrong (Yang Vs Tifa), very poorly researched (Tails Vs Luigi) or both (Sol Vs Ragna).

[@JG_Wentworth]

@@lynxfresh5214 Scout vs Tracer is another good example of this. They fucked scout pretty hard, but gave tracer abilities she doesn't even have in game.

[@99sonicrocks]

THANK YOU. So many Mario fans try to use the no limits fallacy that Mario's invincibilities would tank any kind of attack when they haven't shown any feats close to the Chaos Emeralds. Really enjoyed this debunk! One thing though, when you were powerscaling base Sonic you didn't factor in Sonic's fight with Ultimate Emerl. The Gizoid that copied all of Sonic's friends skills, strenght and speed along with Shadow and Sonic himself (Emerl even defeated them both at the same time when they sparred). Eggman had demonstrated the Chaos Emeralds can destroy a cluster of stars just before Emerl had taken them for himself and planned to use their power to overkill Sonic's world. Sonic not only defeated him but did so in a 10 round fight in under 30 seconds. Also, I think your idea of Infinite set power was a little too low. In Sonic Mania, the Heavy King combined with the Original Phantom Ruby and was able to give Classic Super Sonic a decent fight. When in just the game before, Generations, Classic Super Sonic was able to pull his weight with Modern Super Sonic against the Time Eater. Then later on Modern Eggman discovers the Ruby and says with it's power he wont even need the Master Emerald. Modern Sonic not only took blows from Infinite but surpassed a certain extent of Infinite's power alone. The time of their last fight Sonic was overwhelming Infinite alone while Infinite was sure he had more than enough power to defeat him again from their second battle. Later on with final boss, Egg Robo, Eggman says he has surpassed Infinite and Modern Sonic is the one dealing the initial attacks in the final phase with the Avatar and Classic Sonic just making sure Eggman cant counterattack when Sonic is attacking until the Triple Boost. One final note, when you said Mario should be galaxy level from the black hole in Galaxy. Did you factor in Rosalina saved everyone with the Lumas sacrificing themselves? She warped them all back safe and sound while everyone seemed surprised.

[@excaliber596]

99sonicrocks Thanks for watching man, really appreciate it. To answer your questions in order. I purposely didn’t use Ultimate Emerl because, in my personal opinion, that’s a bit of an outlier, especially with the added fact that Emerl could’ve been trying to hold back against Sonic. It just seemed like Life-wiper levels were more consistent within the timeline with Perfect Chaos and the Egg Robo. I also did think about how the phantom ruby should be compatible to the Chaos Emeralds in Mania, but in the end I decided not to use it cause of two reasons. 1. Infinite wasn’t using the actual Phantom Ruby, but a Phantom Ruby prototype that needed extra power in order to get to its Large Star levels, so it’s likely that Infinite was weaker than the real thing and Modern Sonic couldn’t stand up to it. Classic Sonic also had Eggman fighting the Heavy King battle royal-style so Classic Super Sonic might not be quite as powerful. 2. Although Classic Sonic does help Modern Sonic with the Time Eater and the Death Egg Robot, it doesn’t necessarily mean that he’s as powerful. If it was, than why would he later need Super Sonic to fight characters like Perfect Chaos? It seemed more likely that Modern Sonic did most of the work, but still couldn’t do it alone which is why he doesn’t quite scale as high as DER or Infinite. Finally, I was actually not aware of the fact that Rosalina protected everyone at the time I was researching for this video. But, it was brought to my attention recently by someone who was trying to debunk me in the comments, but just ended up making the situation worse for himself XD. It was fun debating him tho.

[@99sonicrocks]

@@excaliber596 Hmmm...I suppose I can understand Ultimate Emerl being an outlier of this time period if you discount Sonic's progression to Infinite, Base Dark Gaia, and Time Eater. However, Ultimate Emerl made it clear he wasn't showing any mercy when he was set on destroying the world. Where was it said Infinite himself was using a prototype? His never lost power completely like the others and had no power limit it hard stopped at before breaking. Infinite uses more and more power each encounter they have. I always saw it as Classic Eggman stealing it for himself at those times when he got an opportunity when Classic Super Sonic knocked it off of it. Not as powerful? Possibly, but Classic Sonic himself is changed forever after the events of Generations as we see in Mania. He even shows the progress of the Boost attack and even can use the homing attack long before he should. It's clear this Classic Sonic is different now than simply a younger Sonic. In the 3DS version of Generations it's shown more that Classic Super Sonic can harm and take on Time Eater just as well as Modern Sonic in his phase. I dont think you can limit this version of Classic Sonic to the events of Modern Sonic's past since we don't know his future for sure since his timeline is now an another dimension. Oh, I saw a bit of it but it seemed to go off topic to me. So what would be your new powerlevel of Mario?

[@excaliber596]

It was never directly stated that Infinite was using a prototype, but you can tell its not the real one based on a few story elements. 1. If it was the real one, why does its power rely on a generator? It didn't in Mania, so why here unless it was some kind of perfected prototype. 2. The Phantom Ruby on Infinite's chest doesn't look like the one from mania. 3. Why would Eggman give the real one to Infinite and put a fake in his DER? He's definitely the type to give himself the more powerful one, especially if its his backup plan like it was in the game. And yeah, I suppose its true that Classic Sonic now is more powerful than he was originally due to the events of generations. He should be at least comparable to Unleashed Sonic, as he took on the Egg Dragoon in Forces. I guess I just didn't think about it too much and focused more on Modern Sonic. Honestly, I don't know what Mario's new power level would be. I would have to do a bit more research to make something conclusive. The first big feat that comes to mind is beating Dreamy Bowser, making him like, half planetary? but I feel like thats a GIGANTIC lowball for some reason. If you've got anything that proves he's at higher levels, I'd love to hear it :)

[@treybrzezowski3259]

99sonicrocks that was a fairly forgettable game, so I don’t blame him

[@thiccray2484]

HOLY FRIKIN CHICKEN THIS IS A LONG COMMENT

[@dariusx.machina3446]

14:38 "There have only been 2 characters in the entire series that have ever been able to damage Super Sonic: Solaris and Dark Gaia!" Knuckles: "Am I a joke to you?"

[@mastrsonic375]

True but today’s sonic is stronger and super sonic is universal in power waaaaaay after knuckles knocked him out of super sonic

[@dariusx.machina3446]

@@mastrsonic375 .. and your point is..?

[@mastrsonic375]

Do I need to explain

[@dariusx.machina3446]

@@mastrsonic375 yeah. because i'm only saying knuckles wasn't mentioned and he's done damage to super sonic in one point in the game series

[@Undertale_sans]

@@dariusx.machina3446 well super sonic is not good enough to control the chaos emerald and his super form in that time when nux is the guardian of the master emerald and sonic is still weak in his super form

[@Nightbanekaizer]

I still watch Death Battle from time to time however they need to be debunked more often. A common observation I made is even when the right character wins its most likely for the wrong reasons. Someone cover Raiden VS Wolverine or Snake VS Splinter Cell or Iron Man VS Lex Luther, and you you will see where they are right in many instances but also where they are wrong. The reason I mention these three fights is because they were my favorite and obviously I like Metal Gear but some clarification if their wins were right would be a good idea.

[@RandemFellow]

I think Snake was totally justified and their explanation hit all the points it needed. The issue with the Iron Man vs Luthor was that Lex has kept up with Batman, but Ironman kept up with Captain America and black panther so take your pick.

[@deanmoriarty6015]

“had some dead weight, tho” LMAOOOOO

[@SHMOUSEY86]

Yeah calling princess Elise “dead weight” is the understatement of the millennium.

[@chu-pay]

Don’t forget that Mario can’t survive in lava with the super star, but super sonic can just stand in it Also knux did launch the chaos emeralds out of super sonic in sonic 3

[@vohloo9797]

Classic Knuckles confirmed stronger than Solaris

[@sezarsurge9037]

um he can survive lava with his permanent invicibiltiy leaf

[@hedgehogthesonic3181]

@@sezarsurge9037 Feats ??

[@sezarsurge9037]

@@hedgehogthesonic3181 yeah rainbowman super mario galaxy

[@hedgehogthesonic3181]

@@sezarsurge9037 Mario still die in lava with his invincibility leaf you know...

[@azanzolo]

I feel that deathbattle will mention a certain point in the discussion and in the fight they completely drop it just to make things more interesting for the plot

[@TheRobloxianBeatSabertist]

Even doing that, this completely ignores the power level of the character that is being played here. I will acknowledge Super Mario Galaxy and Paper Mario (Paper Mario does not have a say in this so neither does Archie Sonic.) having all of those crazy events but if Mario & Bowser survived a black hole explicitly because of Rosalina, then that still shouldn’t make Mario any stronger from that time just by being saved from a blackhole. Sure he has all of these moves where he can transform, steal other people’s vessels with only a cap, convert into different bodies depending on how the level progresses, and have invincibility that lasts a short period. There’s this huge problem between Super Sonic and Super Star Mario. While I would’ve talked about the duration, Sonic Team showed just what Super Sonic is capable of. Even using moves, forms, and different strategies in terms of what the situation was. Whether it was ramming at near light speed in his base form to ram into a water G.O.D, having the assistance of his counterpart rival teleporting away a space ark with a giant lizard attached to it that’s on a direct crash course to earth, facing another one of those deities that this time transcends time and exists in every single time space with a past and a future hedgehog, fighting an augmented and mechanized timeline consumer that sucks the energy of time and space around it, a robot and/or a jackal that has the ability to manipulate or manifest the view of reality which creates many realistic illusions that are capable of harming someone, a moon that’s supposed destroyer of worlds for the fun of it that not even the most powerful artifacts and the most advanced piece of technology from an pre-dating ancient civilization combined could stop it, and more. And my brain is practically fried at how many of these entities Sonic has faced either in his base or super form. He didn’t even need hyper and it’s also confirmed that the hyper form from the super emeralds consist of unlimited energy. There’s just a lot more. I guess what I’m trying to say here, Mario would be fighting a losing battle, all the time.

[@drybitter2650]

Mario literally dies with the Starman when touching lava while even sonic’s regular invincibility can survive that. Mario would get completely dicked by hyper-sonic.

[@masahirosakurai8783]

No

[@maximumevil8673]

@@masahirosakurai8783 bruh man get that non canon shit outta here

[@masahirosakurai8783]

@Tow Mater no

[@masahirosakurai8783]

@Tow Mater lol no

[@masahirosakurai8783]

@Tow Mater ok this is game version I admit archie beats mario but game sonic?lol no

[@ohgodwhy6640]

Also remember that the "star" that infinite summoned is a sun. Its repeatedly said in the game dialogue, so who knows what he could do if the sun exploded.

[@IronSK]

Well the sun is a star. There is no difference there

[@ToaArcan]

Eh, our sun is a pretty small star. It's not big enough to go supernova, even.

[@realhayabusa9515]

Sonic is slowly outrunning the black hole, i'm pretty sure he's slowly exceeding the speed of light, on foot he's leagues faster than mario. Mario might be able to react to himself getting shot outta the star cannon but he's not touching sonic.

[@bored_butter]

REAL Hayabusa he got pulled in anyway

[@realhayabusa9515]

@@bored_butter oof

[@Max-Rtpmp]

@@BlandyBoiYT he was running downhill but the planet gravity wasn't helping him

[@tcole2475]

BlandyBoi you know what black holes do right? I don’t think running downhill made much of a difference but I admit that is a valid point

[@tcole2475]

Jacob Underwood Sonic runs light speed only when running downhill confirmed

[@kirbstagoontheaxolotl]

So Sonic Frontiers basically told us that the End was... I think Tails literally states it to be more powerful than Dark Gaia. Considering the game writer, Ian Flynn, puts it as second most powerful behind Solaris... Well, Fronteirs casually went and had Sonic casually escape what is supposed to be a dimension inescapable under one's own power in base (Literally Cyberspace was made to contain the end) So I feel like lore is on it's way to make base Sonic casually stomp Mario