Mindscape 191 | Jane McGonigal on How to Imagine the Future

Patreon: / seanmcarroll
Blog post with audio player, show notes, and transcript: www.preposterousuniverse.com/...
The future grows out of the present, but it manages to consistently surprise us. How can we get better at anticipating and preparing for what the future can be like? Jane McGonigal started out as a game designer, working on the kinds of games that represent miniature worlds with their own rules. This paradigm provides a useful way of thinking about predicting the future: imagining changes in the current world, then gaming out the consequence, allowing real people to produce unexpected emergent outcomes. We talk about the lessons learned that anyone can use to better prepare their brain for the future to come.
Jane McGonigal received her Ph.D. in performance studies from the University of California, Berkeley. She is currently a writer and Director of Games Research and Development at the Institute for the Future. She teaches a course at Stanford on How to Think Like a Futurist. She has developed several games, including SuperBetter, a game she designed to improve health and resilience after suffering from a concussion. Her recent book is Imaginable: How to See the Future Coming and Feel Ready for Anything-Even Things That Seem Impossible Today.
Mindscape Podcast playlist: • Mindscape Podcast
Sean Carroll channel: / seancarroll
#podcast #ideas #science #philosophy #culture

[@akumar7366]

I always find your Vlogs so interesting , I started listening at the start of the Covid outbreak. In alot of ways your voice has been like a friend to me , a highlight always worth waiting for .

[@Vlasko60]

I fall asleep most nights listening to Sean. I like his voice as well as his insights. One of my favorite thinkers.

[@heinandeverlienneposthuma7033]

Me and my wife are both from the Netherlands. We currently live in Germany, for more than a decade now. Both non religious. We opend our home to different refugees (from the middle east, Ukraine and so on). Al are different individually, literally from person to person. We noticed nothing more than respect for each others situation. My point here is that we are all earthlings. Be there for each other is the least we can do.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

1:15:00 this is a pet topic of mine at the moment, that we are becoming more divided and so divided that it's a real case of "us and them". what people seem to be forgetting is that whatever political side you take, our government has to represent BOTH sides, okay your party may have won the election, but that doesn't mean you deport everyone who voted the other way, the party that wins may have first dibs on policy, but they have make policy for the voters from the other side - and you do that by working together with opposition, not ostracising the opposition. people are forgetting what democracy is all about.

[@jennydeepable]

Excellent and inspirational chat, good job. I liked how the guest gave a very hands on approach for people.

[@syuserhdfiferrgh631]

I've had the chance to get people to try games for the first time on a couple occasions and what I noticed every time is how little patience in general, and how little endurance for problem solving in particular they have. I never put 1 and 1 together that maybe I learned those traits by getting better at games.

[@Vlasko60]

Jane is a joy to listen to. I love her optimism.

[@jynxkizs]

Thank you.

[@RP-ve7bl]

Beautiful bridge on the silvery Tay...

[@7heHorror]

Cool topic and interview, thanks. I have to recommend against playing the all-too predictable titles here mentioned. To quickly and clearly realize the gaming concepts explored in the start of this cast and to have a complete experience, try something competitive! Competitive games pit us directly against human opponents, on equal footing, with no randomness affecting the outcome and very high skill-ceilings. Weiqi, Chess, Starcraft, Counterstrike, Halo, Rocket League. Adversity, collaboration, prediction, strategy, sportsmanship. People's approach to these games evolve over time as they adapt to each other. You don't have to beat - or be good at - the game, just outplay your opponents, whether a beginner or professional. You haven't really stretched your mind until trying to make a comeback in a competitive game.

[@mike9rr]

I get what she's saying, but I also get Sean's counterpoint when he asks the rhetorical question, "Shouldn't you be doing something useful?" So I propose that "doing something useful" can have results at least as fruitful as gaming. Two examples: #1. In the Hungarian revolution of 1956, the workers and the intellectuals were not split because the Communist Party at the time required party members destined for political positions to spend time working in the factories. This built bonds of friendship and a common set of values which would prove to be the undoing of the corrupt party bosses. The united workers and intellectuals initially took control of Budapest, but, sadly we know what happened. Anyway, on to #2. Working my way through college I had construction jobs every summer. I learned a lot and, when returning to school, was surprised by by fellow students' dearth of real-world experience.

[@aprylvanryn5898]

I'm so attracted to her mind. Everything she says is thought provoking and fascinating. Jane you are AVR certified.

[@DontKnowHowToSayNo]

I mostly enjoyed it but could not make the end, and of course human simulation seems like a great idea. However, some bits of advice seem not to apply to people over a certain age. "If you don't know what to play, just post on social media" and "imagine what you will be doing in 10 years".

[@mgenthbjpafa6413]

Amid all the uncertainty, each of us needs to cultivate flexibility around, improve what we are, don't get your expectations too high, believe in a new, "utopian" society, is better than cultivate anxiety around dystopian hypothesis and extinction events theories. Thank you so much for your time and effort. Congrats.

[@rodneyericjohnson]

I'm guessing this is the podcast you did from the Santa Fe office instead of home because you said it during the podcast. What do I win? lol.

[@yy-sf1xq]

juppp

[@Sun18Jul]

Is it "I am learning perseverance and to never give up" or is it "I need treatment for my gaming addiction"?

[@Themongrelable]

Depends on how its affecting your responsibilities and exposure to other forms of personal growth

[@alankoslowski9473]

Yeah, I was thinking something similar.

[@allenmarkham]

"Ender's Game"?

[@StaticBlaster]

I remember Netscape. It was Internet Explorer vs Netscape. I primarily used IE back then, Now I use Firefox and Edge.

[@michaelblacktree]

Maybe I'm too old for this conversation. When she talked about a "wonderful collaborative community" of gamers, I got the impression she was wearing rose-colored glasses. My own experiences have been completely different. The people who behave in a thoughtful and collaborative manner are a small minority of gamers. The majority are just a bunch of jerks with nothing better to do.

[@dignes3446]

I think in Co-op, non-combat, non-competitive games majority are cool though.

[@1PrinceWilliam]

First!

[@1PrinceWilliam]

That said, I am a huge fan of the podcast and truly appreciate the information you’ve shared with the public since its inception as well as your approach to podcasting (never repeating guests and the reasoning behind that, etc.) Thank you for making such grandiose ideas accessible to us all.

[@alankoslowski9473]

Practical consideration. For people who work full time and have other responsibilities, how exactly do we find time for gaming, reading, and exercising as she suggests? That seems unlikely. I doubt many or even most people have much time for gaming. That's probably why gaming is more popular among younger people; they have more free time.

[@johnlindgren273]

A gaming culture in slavery would promote slavery. In Tsarist Russia, serfdom. In Nazi Germany, good old Nazism. Try having an egalitarian, tough game. Mathematicians are good at this. In all, if you buy into a game you are buying into a world view.

[@HouseJawn]

🥵 💕

[@TwiztedDezign]

Hahaha Humans have no future. Good joke.

[@scottnaylor]

Wasn't feeling this one, unfortunately.

[@unknownPLfan]

I don't think games are good. I think this is a really weird and toxic "hobby" that I'm disappointed to see being justified by intellectuals I otherwise respect who probably don't play games, because it's incredibly difficult to be accomplished and successful and play video games. Of course simple games that maybe waste a few minutes of your time are better but still, what's the point there even?

[@b1llb3llamy]

signed: guy who watches 6 hours of TV per day

[@Emanresu56]

Or how about this: it's toxic to berate and shame others for participating in relatively harmless hobbies, and it's none of your goddamn business what people do with their time, as long as they aren't harming others.

[@hmp01]

@unknownPLfan you're the one sounding toxic my guy. ​ @Emanresu56 I'm sorry I meant the other guy your profile pictures confused me with his.

[@lordcrayzar]

What a dingus

[@jamesm6887]

I look forward to you presenting the - you know - actual data to support that it's incredibly difficult to be accomplished and successful and play video games. - Yours sincerely, someone who is successful and plays video games pretty much every night.

[@JH-pt6ih]

While I have no problem granting the benefits of gaming, her discussion of these benefits is horoscope talk: Gaming is good because it teaches you discipline, perseverance, and how to get along with others. Just as sports, learning to play the cello, playing board games, or camping can teach you the same things. These are possible traits and abilities of the person, not the activity. Positive outcomes from doing something positive. It should also be considered that unless we are dealing with an idealized world where everyone gave up some negative or wasted 1-2 hours a day or week and spent that time gaming, in reality it means fewer people spending that time learning to play the cello, playing sports, etc. so there would also be that loss.

[@unknownPLfan]

the only sensible comment in his thread.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

i tried to explain to a friend, and failed, that although games might not be "real" that the interactions are, what gamers are doing is not entirely imaginary.

[@JH-pt6ih]

@@HarryNicNicholas I wasn’t commenting on the imaginary aspect of it - reading books is imaginary. It’s that the argument for games is saying nothing exceptional about games while advocating that everyone should be gaming which means they won’t be doing something else equally rewarding and we get a less diverse society.