Mike Winger Messed Up! But Who Is Really To Blame?

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Happy Tuesday, all. Thanks for being here. Hope you're not all sick of me covering Winger yet.

[@justiispilipinas]

I enjoyed this, just keep the clips of winger (and turek and Craig) to 10sec or so at a time. One can only take so much trash at once. Keep up the great work

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Ha! Yes the demeaning attitude is rough!

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Lol. Noted. And thanks!

[@loriw2661]

Not at all. His arrogance, even while admitting he got something wrong, is in need of confrontation. I just became a Patron! Love your channel!!

[@ChrisSmith-xh9wb]

I have tried twice to reply but my posts seem to be automatically deleted

[@jakerz0]

The biggest stone thing that finally rolled away for me and caused the landslide of deconversion was not the unreliability of individuals who taught the word, but the realization that those same limitations and fallibility necessarily applied to the orators, authors, scribes, translators, and readers/interpreters of the Bible. To draw the line anywhere in that chain and claim that anything past that point is divinely inspired, inerrant, etc. is wholly arbitrary. And the arbitrariness of determining what was and wasn’t subject to interpretation is what ultimately led me to lose faith that any of it could be trusted for certain.

[@King24223]

You’re an incredible voice in this space. Happy to have found your channel

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thank you so much. That’s incredibly kind. Glad to have you here

[@sanjeevgig8918]

XTIANS WHEN demanding people do something they want: God is absolutely clear on THIS. XTIANS WHEN asked about blood sacrifice, genocide, slavery and treating women as second class citizens: God works in mysterious ways. He is unknowable. . LOL

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Exactly. Its just insane these excuses they keep making for him

[@MrFringehead]

As an engineer, one of the first questions I feel is appropriate to ask about a system is "how do you know it's working?" As far as I can tell, the one and only valid test for the truth of Christian doctrine is both non-repeatable and non-communicable. God is either going to welcome you into His Kingdom or toss you into the fire-no backsies. Even worse, if the null hypothesis about the afterlife holds, you won't even have a glimpse of that post-life "a winnar is you" screen. According to the gospels, scripture is equally essential to life as food. But unlike the near-instant feedback we get when we choose our food poorly, we get one and only one shot with scripture. And Mike Winger, self-styled scriptural authority, has trouble with scripture. Good luck have fun guys!

[@MindShift-Brandon]

I lobe this so much. Thanks for those insights and unique perspective

[@randyguess3124]

I think atheists are just angry people. But rather than discovering what is the source of the issue inside them, they choose to transfer it onto God and those who believe. Without faith in the unknown, a person will always have issues.

[@notimportant3686]

i guess that's one way to reword pascal's failed wager

[@notimportant3686]

btw, living in reality is more important to most people (one would think) than one moment of ego boost from some "i told you so" moment... you have miswagered your bets

[@Justas399]

How do you know atheism is working? You don't and it doesn't work.

[@geneshifter]

Too bad Winger doesn't dig deeper than that. His mind would be blown.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Would be amazing to see someone like him finally see the light.

[@drlegendre]

He who digs deepest, deepest digs.

[@TonyLambregts]

My first thought on this is that I should pray for him. I kid you Not. I thought it was hilarious. Everyone makes their own reality. In my empathy for him I want something for him that is not within my power to give to him. As an Agnostic Atheist I can only say that I would want the best for him In the end. Having private thoughts are meaningless to me unless I can communicate these thoughts to others. Praying is as an exercise of thought not necessarily rational but part of our ability to imagine things. Just wanted to share a thought with you. I appreciate your view point.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

I love and can completely follow that line of thinking. Well said. Thanks for sharing it.

[@BobLeach_DarkWolf]

Maybe his mind would... shift. 😂

[@DannyS177]

Me realizing that "I don't know" is a valid answer and not a bad thing was literally life changing. I think as long IDK isn't being used to keep yourself ignorant or to make yourself incurious IDK is a wonderful phase. Becoming an atheist has reignited my curiosity, because I Don't Know.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Yes yes and yes! I couldn’t agree more.

[@DannyS177]

@@MindShift-Brandon I just thought of a small addition. I think you have to be at least a little bit curious in order to deconstruct your faith, even if the end result is the person staying in their faith.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Id agree with that.

[@derinderruheliegt]

Penn Jillette spends a good amount of time on “I don’t know” in his book God, No! Such a simple concept which, counterintuitively, pushes you to keep searching for answers rather than resign to ignorance.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Yes thats a fascinating point. I dont know is typically a launch pad not an end scene.

[@JamesRichardWiley]

Mike is a perfect example of what the Bible does to a sound mind. Everything is in reverse.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Well put.

[@David34981]

Indeed, he's not dumb, but he says so many dumb things in order to makes excuses for the scriptures.

[@adamrspears1981]

Christianity is backward. The good guys created hell & create evil. I call it the dislexic religion.

[@ryancummins8944]

I remember when my grandfather tried to convert people from other denominations because they would go to hell while worshipping the same god. He was on his death bed and the doctor taking care of him was catholic and he kept trying to convert him to being a baptist. This was wildly inappropriate but also insane as they worship the same god. That's when I realized that christianity in its extreme forms is no different than any other extreme belief.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Great but sad example. People live their whole lives in either fear or judgement.

[@familyportsmouth]

All three of the Abrahamic religions worship the same god and they are killing each other over it. Funny, the Jews and the Muslims agree that they are worshipping the same god, but few Christians will.

[@MrSeedi76]

​@@MindShift-BrandonChristians should have no fear and judge no one. Too bad not many follow commandment #2.

[@teddrickmilsap5994]

@@MrSeedi76 Referring to Catholicism I have recently learned that they totally abolished commandment 2 and divided commandment10 into 2 parts. I googled it and they consider the part about not having idols heresy since all they have is idols everywhere.

[@renharris6504]

Ironically, I feel like if I’d been raised Catholic instead of Baptist, I wouldn’t have as many self-esteem and anxiety issues as I do today. Maybe I’d still even consider myself a Christian. But my dad can never learn that, he’d have a heart attack on the spot. :x

[@godotwaiter146]

“Then what is the point?” (7:32) Exactly. If so much can go so wrong why bother doing it this way? This is the best that God can do? I cannot believe I fell for this for so long. First time visiting your channel. Good job.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Welcome! And thank you. Its hard to look back and believe i was also so duped for so long

[@godotwaiter146]

@@MindShift-Brandon 🧐

[@MrCanis4]

98% of humanity has never heard of this god and his storybook. They knew very well how to work together and find out which of the best moral rules to apply for that. Otherwise we would have disappeared long ago.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Precisely!

[@ChrisSmith-xh9wb]

The ongoing conflicts in the world suggest that we are actually not that good at working together. We have had 300,000 years to get it sorted, but are no closer to achieveing peace and harmony.

[@dancahill9585]

@@ChrisSmith-xh9wb Of course that applies to all the religions. The middle ages are full of one Christian King going to war with another Christian King. I've yet to see any problem religion has solved that couldn't also be solved without religion.

[@chameleonx9253]

​@@ChrisSmith-xh9wbI think we've come a LONG way from the era of the Bible. There are definitely still problems that need to be solved, but there are at least large sections of the world where people can live in peace and harmony, and nobody has to suffer too much hardship. We just need to work to expand those envelopes of goodness to encompass more of the world, until it includes everyone.

[@markcostello5120]

@@ChrisSmith-xh9wb In this time with the ever present threat of nuclear and biological weapons the one thing that is not needed is a belief that the decisions we make in this life don't matter.

[@rodysuazo9213]

It is insane and frustrating like being in an abusive relationship. This person is telling you that loves you but at the same time is cruel and mean to you, probably even physically and you want to do the right thing, you want to stick to the relationship and the commitment, you don't want to be the one that gives up too easily on something that was supposed to be forever. At the same time, you know you have to take care and protect yourself from these toxic attitude and person; so you don't know what to do. This is the kind of psychological damage religion can do to you. I understand why so many atheists say their relationship with God was an abusive one. The level of cognitive dissonance drives you crazy all the time.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Very well put. The sad part is how far down one typically goes before that final tipping point.

[@ChrisSmith-xh9wb]

THe experience of many Christians is very different from what you describe. From my perspective, the only one who suffered abuse was Jesus when he was crucified. That sacrificial death has set me free from condemnation. I am held forever in the loving arms of God and happy to be there.

[@rodysuazo9213]

The feelings of frustration and emotional distress that I was describing happen only when you start waking up from your deep indoctrination; obviously that doesn't happen to the majority of the people. Imagine a Muslim that never questioned himself about why he believes the way he does.

[@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr]

@@ChrisSmith-xh9wb Maybe the Christians you're around aren't living authentically Christian enough. They're supposed to be like Jesus, and Jesus was an abuse victim. So... also it's all about obedience and authority over you, and you are the slave who has died to yourself and given up your free will.

[@EmissaryOfStuff]

4:50 This excuse becomes even dumber, when one considers that if God had waited a mere 2000 Years more, he could've send his Son during our current age of Information. Recording and proving his Miracles would be trivially easy and Jesus could easily spread his Message via Social Media (No need for Crusades or Colonization).

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Yes. It fails everywhere! Great point

[@user-lh5li8ll7i]

And that would achieve what exactly? people witnessed His miracles and still didnt believe and even killed Him. It's an issue of heart not belief.

[@EmissaryOfStuff]

​@@user-lh5li8ll7iA lot of People still became Believers after seeing the Miracles though. And if the Miracles were recorded on Video, no one could argue that they didn't happen or that Jesus isn't supernatural.

[@TestMeatDollSteak]

Why would an all powerful God need to wait for people to develop any particular kind of limited, fallible technology in order to document his “miracles”, in the first place? Why not just make it so that everyone is born with a perfect firsthand eyewitness memory of Jesus’s birth, teachings, death, and resurrection, for example? Or have Jesus still alive and introducing himself to everyone?

[@DavidRichardson153]

That's assuming Jesus never goes to Las Vegas, where Penn and Teller would expose how he pulled off his miracles.

[@KnottyFlyer]

I have been binge watching all your videos in chronological order. Love them and especially enjoy the reviews of the books of the bible. I am a 69 year old long, long time atheist. Grew up in a Christian family. My father was an ordained minister. I recently read the bible word for word, cover to cover for the first time. Old and New Testament. In an attempt to avoid as much introduced bias as possible I read the Myles Coverdale Bible, the first complete English translation, published in 1535. It was a marvellously eye opening experience. The Myles Coverdale Bible says, in 1 Thessalonians 5:22 MCB “Abstayne fro all suspicious thinges.” (“Abstain from all suspicious things.”) How did this become “all forms of evil”, or a variant of that, in more recent translations and versions? Assuming the MCB verse was translated from Aramaic, Hebrew or Greek, was there an error made in translation, or a new interpretation applied to more modern bibles. Sorry for the long winded question. Thanks for responding.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thanks so much! Man translations are such a huge issue and your question is a great one. I do hope to do a deep dive soon for an episode

[@rizdekd3912]

Your story sounds a bit like mine since I'm ball park the same age except I read the Bible through as a teen and I think it was my first step out the door. It took many years to complete the journey, but yes...reading the Bible civer to civer was eye-opening and sobering.

[@loriw2661]

The arrogance of Christian’s walking around with “Blessed” on their t-shirt is what I thought of while watching this. They think they’re being humble when they proclaim how blessed they are. They give no thought to the millions of people who have cancer, who are struggling financially, who are praying earnestly every day to their god to help them with……(fill in the blank) and never get that help. They don’t realize how they’re putting themselves on a egotistical, holier-than-thou platform that’s looking down on everyone else that isn’t as “blessed” as they are. It’s disgusting & definitely not a humble position. Another great video and no, I’m not sick of you covering Winger or anything/anyone else. Just keep these video’s coming!!😊

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Oh man. Isn’t that the truth! Its the most self-focused thing. Great example!

[@moizzy1587]

#blessedandhighlyfavored 🙄

[@ChrisSmith-xh9wb]

Read the beatitudes in the sermon on the mount to discover what blessed actually means.

[@beaumcclure1003]

Well when you stop looking at it at a worldly materialistic standpoint we are blessed with the blood of Christ. Blessed that although we deserve death and the grave Jesus gave his life that we can be clothed in his cloak of righteous and inherit his kingdom that we on our own do not deserve.

[@loriw2661]

@@beaumcclure1003 The indoctrinated parroting here is stunning

[@jmparker78]

This is one of those questions that’s been on my mind for years because my dad is big on avoiding “the appearance of evil.” One way he avoided this was to never allow himself to be alone with a woman. Not because he didn’t trust her, or trust himself, but because he didn’t want people to see him alone with a woman and get the wrong idea. This is the infamous “Billy Graham rule.” But he was frequently in close quarters with another man and a woman. The other man was there to be another witness who could attest that nothing untoward happened. How many times, I wonder, did this woman feel ganged up on or potentially threatened?

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Great example of the harm!

[@timfallon8226]

Sensible policy given how common false rape accusations are.

[@cutienerdgirl]

@@timfallon8226 Except, it isn't due to the fact that rapes have multiple perpetrators a.k.a. gang rape. Allowing himself to be alone in a room with another man and a woman doesn't make him any less likely to be accused of rape.

[@tennbones]

A bible with no preacher? Where would elderly retired folks on a budget send their money Kenneth Copeland needs for a new jet? It might bring our whole economy down!

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Lol!

[@skepticusmaximus184]

The "apperance of evil" is *entirely* subjective even if I accept fhe term 'evil' as a meaningful concept. My take on the appearance of evil would include being self-righteous sanctimonious and virtue signalling pretentious moralising glurge to make everyone else feel shitty and vie for control, in the gaslighting stakes of vulnerable and naive people. Probably the main reason someone like Winger abstains from drinking even moderately, would be this kind of self-righteous pride and virtue motive. Likewise with false niceness and do-gooderism. Its all pretentious egocentric evil.

[@ChrisSmith-xh9wb]

Some years ago a well- meaning friend threw the "appearance of evil" verse at me and left me with a guilt trip that I could have avoided if I had checked the verse out for myself and realised it was a mistranslation. I can't remember now what prompted the accusation.

[@skepticusmaximus184]

@@ChrisSmith-xh9wb Sorry to hear that. I never go on a guilt trip unless I've pre approved the destination, point of departure and paid for my own ticket in advance. I'm also very wary of travel agents, tour guides and accommodation on any guilt trip. Also I like to travel light. You can carry too much luggage, and come back with more baggage than you left with. Happy travels. 👋 😉

[@dimbulb23]

It's 100% about THE BOOK. It's perfectly understandable, what else is there to obsess over? It would be nice if there was a God Visit every few Leap Years or maybe once a Century or two. Fat chance. That's not happening, So what to do? I'll tell you... IDOLATRY ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Keep doing what you've doing sincc enough people learned to read... Worship THE BOOK ! WORSHIP every word, worship THE STORIES. interpret them and re-interpret the interpretations. Zero in on those sermons. Shut your eyes really hard, sing a hymn, do it just right, spend a few hours a week and you'll catch a flicker of God... at times. It won't be BibleGod really but it's something right? Right?

[@ronmarkell4436]

I was deep deep deep in the bowels of Fundamentalism as you were. I have worked myself out through extensive reading, logic, and reason. I am so glad that I now can leave that clusterfuckofabible behind. What freedom indeed. Listening to this video I could sure sense and re-live your sense of frustration. That frustration that you expressed was the frustration that i felt daily trying to make sense of a religion that was insanely complicated, conflicted, and nonsensical.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Glad we both made it out!

[@ronmarkell4436]

@@MindShift-Brandon glad YES. But glad is an understatement. I have confounded Christian’s by saying that I never had the “peace that passes all understanding” until I freed myself of the cult that is Christianity. This is extremely confusing to them as they have been indoctrinated to the lie that joy only comes from knowing Christ. The best that they can come up with is that either the devil is giving me a false joy, or that I am deluding myself. As far as I am concerned the joy that comes from escaping the cult that is christianity is unmatched. The bondage, confusion, and uncertainty that christianity delivered was a hollow promise of joy.

[@JoeHinojosa-bd9hu]

I'm not a Narcissist. I just KNOW GOD AGREES WITH ME!

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Ha. Yup

[@MrCrimsonbolt]

Pastors can't ever help anyone move house, in case someone sees them taking belongings out of another person's house and thinks they're committing burglary

[@lizhoward9754]

I am glad you can sit through this dribble, like Mike Winger, so we don’t have to. You are stronger than me

[@_S0me__0ne]

Imagine. Winger keeps digging and applying critical thinking and winds up recanting his faith, beliefs, and religion in general. It could happen.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

It could and from a platform that big, it would be amazing

[@whatwecalllife7034]

I wouldn't even bet a dollar on it

[@zacharylehocki]

Well done Brandon, its not about Mike Winger being wrong as a person its the deeper problem it present for Christian Theology, good insight you have picking up on this! On the other hand I don`t think Mike Winger is wrong in his aesthetic taste of T shirts! ``Taking Hobbits to Isengard`` lol.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Ha. Love that. And thank you

[@Noise-Conductor]

I respect the mercy & understanding you have for Mike's confusion. In the hood they say "real people do real things"

[@familyportsmouth]

Happy Tuesday! I have always wondered how the Army could write a manual for safely setting up and taking down a Claymore mine so that any GI could read and understand it, but a god could not make the bible that comprehensible.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

What an awesome comparison. Stealing it ha. Thanks!

[@yacaattwood2421]

YES!!! I worked as a database administrator during my 41 years in IT; I’ve often thought why can’t an Eternal, N-dimensional, omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent Being create a document as clear as the Oracle installation manual for AIX. It spells out, step by step, exactly how to install Oracle database software on an AIX (IBM’s implementation of Unix) server

[@cjgt77]

What really set everything off for me was how divisive religions are in the first place. Long story short, when I was younger I wanted to join a non-denominational church and generally everything they were teaching was in line with everything I was taught previously, so I didn't think there would be a conflict, but was I ever wrong! I lived in a very religious household. They didn't like the fact that I was looking at another church and we actually had arguments as if they were fighting for my soul or something, lol. I started thinking to myself, "well, we're all supposed to be Christians, right? We're all supposed to be following the same god, so what's the big deal"? Besides, many of my friends were in it too, so it wasn't as if I was with bunch of strangers. They saw that I wasn't happy and came up with some lame excuse about how they didn't pray in the beginning of the Bible class and that was against some law they made up 🙄 From there, I kind of knew something wasn't quite right with all this.That really got me thinking about all this, yet still, it took me years to unravel all the indoctrination. No real reason for all that hate. They just didn't want their little sheep leaving the flock ...for another flock of sheep.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Very well put! Thank you for sharing

[@cjgt77]

@@MindShift-Brandon , thank you. I enjoy your content. Actually nice to see someone take a more subdued approach. It's kind of a rare day on internet nowadays, lol!

[@TorianTammas]

@cjgt77 What is a non-denominational church? Do they not all have a rule-set?

[@cjgt77]

@@TorianTammas , it means they don't identify with a specific mainstream church. They still try to follow the Bible, but without influence from the major churches.

[@TorianTammas]

@@cjgt77 Thank you, as we have 32.000 Christian denominations i thought this was tiny enough. Following the bible is a delicious wording as one can always find ones personal opinion in it and one can pro and against every topic according to the bible

[@PauliePizza]

God is in control untill that doesn't work for the story being told.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Precisely. The ever-shifting goalpost if christianity.

[@duanethompson8770]

Thanks for your comments. Even before I deconstructed I noticed that sincere Christians disagreed on minor verses in the Bible-even enough to start new denominations.😊

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Yes and on major ones too. No verse is safe lol

[@familyportsmouth]

I have been in "discussions" with three or four Christians at a time where they were going to show me the error of my ways. Within minutes, they were fighting among themselves, and I could not get a word in.

[@Schizniit]

It's actually respectable to see this guy recognize a blatant mistake in the bibal translations. Maybe this is where he begins to realize that we really have no earthly idea what the old scrolls and texts and word of mouth legends say, and we'll probably never know what they truly said. Not saying he'll become an atheist but at least he may start to see rhat one glaring fundamental flaw with the method of which the Abrahamic god has chosen to convey his "ultimate message" even though even if it was perfectly written, he would still not have a perfect message since not everyone has reliable access to literature

[@evanbayer8129]

Thanks Brandon for your Channel, your a Voice of liberation to the enslaved indoctrinated minds, The power of Religion initially appears and presents itself as light , but as the mind becomes enslaved to its system and doctrines it transforms into a form of Darkness filling the mind with Shame, guilt, unworthiness, judgement, fear, trauma torments, and Confusion . You are a light exposing the system of fear and mind control. Thankyou.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

That is really kind and sincerely encouraging. Thank you!

[@juliabriggs1141]

No you have the wrong conception of it.

[@ChrisSmith-xh9wb]

From a biblical perspective, it is Satan who falsely presents himself as an "angel of light". I embraced Christianity 45 years ago at the age of 30. It felt like being set free and walking not the light. It still does. I feel no shame, no guilt, no fear, no unworthiness, no trauma, no confusion. The NT says "there is no condemnation in Jesus Christ", and that "perfect love (the love of God) drives out fear." I am worth so much to Jesus that he gave his life for me. No one is controlling my mind. No one has attempted to indoctrinate me. What I believe is what I have learnt from reading the Bible with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. I have no wish to return wilderness of atheism. Whatever is enslaving you, i suggest that it is grossly misrepresenting the gospel of Jesus Christ.

[@evanbayer8129]

@@ChrisSmith-xh9wb Hi Chris, do you believe your Religion (Christianity/ Bible) is the right and only Right religion? and book to follow ? If so ? Then Sorry to break it to you but your already in the System, but you don't know it yet .On the other hand if your highest purpose is to manifest and become a person guided by the unadulterated divine Love where there is no book no doctrine no religion no belief system no preacher , priest ,no prophet no teacher etc.. Then you have separated yourself from the system 👍. I was from child indoctrinated 50 + years so I understand what its all about having being a worship leader , preacher, prison out reach ministry ,gospel albums etc..heavily involved for years I understand it all, nothing you can tell me that I don't know about the belief system. I will say this to you, remain as you are for if good has come to you from what you believe then I encourage you to remain and continue as you are , blessings to ya mate. For me i have personally been set free from the system the religion the Bible and have enjoyed separating from them all, and love the understanding and purpose that I have received for my life ,its Amazing actually and peace has been the greatest evidence to me. The Bible can be useful as mythology and has some lovely sayings i will give it that, but for me it only is as a small religous window to peer thru in comparison to what I understand now. If doctrines and a book are needed then they must lead to love, once the unadulterated love has been revealed to the person or reader in its true form and understanding then doctrines must be abandoned for they will only interfere and distort , hindering the power of Love. Love requires no script , no book , no religion, no saviour , it for itself saves the broken, the abandoned ,giving comfort , hope etc..offering, kindness , compassion, empathy , wisdom, correction, healing, encouragement etc..i could go on and on about Love, Love requires no religious belief system its a force that's independent of Religions although religions like to attach it to there religion. Religions, religious, books, teachings only divide and bring man to war against another, in words, beliefs, arguments and anger, debates, because all defend there book there belief, there God, what a frigging mess !! Il have no part in it! Prove me wrong? you cannot! because I was one of them amongst my cult my group my church...im ashamed that I could not see it earlier in life but im thankful I now have a higher understanding and purpose of how to be and to act. The only thing that truly took a positive form and change was the reverlation of what Love is,..im totally transformed changed and like and love who I have become thru this understanding, The bible , Jesus , Holyspirit, praise , worship, obedience, commitment, reading, teachings, sacrifice was unable to do what Love has done in me. The world needs the understanding of Love taught from childhood thru the schools because religion cannot do what Love can do there is no greater power , energy , vibration, frequency, then Love , Love needs to be the highest purpose because it brings real Change, it is the Universal language that all of creation benefits from and can learn to understand..Religions, belief systems fail more and more and there going to collapse in time and its already happening there is an awareness and awaking and change is arising and the church will reject it because its not coming in the way they want it to, they will be the hindrance rejecting the movement until a time when they will see for themselves individually the deception of religion and its system of mind control. ...Love Nourishes those around us and in return nourishes ourselves. Its the Answer and can be proven to be successful.

[@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr]

Wow it's like literally Satan, masquarading as an angel of light.

[@damianwhite504]

Mike has a Hobbit tee shirt on. Could that not be seen as pagan folklore by some? Could it be the appearance of evil?

[@Stranzua]

God is the truth. If you can't come to terms with this one fact, none of it will ever make sense to you. Ever.

[@jerrylong6238]

All gods are as make-believe as Papa Smurf.

[@Hieballa]

how did i manage to get here this early without being subscribed and without you being in my recommended? xD welp, time to subscribe

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Ha love that! Problem solved and thanks for being here!

[@Hieballa]

@@MindShift-Brandon and thank YOU for putting out quality content!

[@ABurgess]

The clarity and depth with which you present your ideas is incredible. Thank you.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

That is really kind of you thank you very much!

[@2aSunnyPlace]

So true! ❤❤

[@LeoVital]

The whole "could God do better" thing is very interesting. One very easy way for the Christian God to do better would be if every single human being at a certain age, regardless of culture, had an experience like Paul's experience in the Damascus Road. There, everyone would have good reason to be a Christian and their free will would still be respected.

[@rizdekd3912]

And it would have been easy for him to stick around and actually BE HERE...never aging, immune to harm and ever constant with love and caring and showing any and all who were interested the truth. THAT would have been better than to lived a short life going around saying confusing things, gotten himself killed and then resurrected and then pretty much immediately escaped back to heaven and then leaving the crafting of doctrine to fallible humans like Paul.

[@LeoVital]

@@rizdekd3912 Yeah, that's also a great point! If the Christian myth was true, it'd have made way more sense for Jesus to just stay around. Be this divine figure that anyone can visit and talk to, watch him perform miracles etc. But conveniently, all religious figures like Jesus tend to either die or disappear.

[@headams6]

Right on Brandon! Everything you say is what I think and have been wrestling with and you have such a great and consice way of putting it. Love it all and keep it up! 😊

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thanks so much, Hannah! Appreciate that kind feedback very much.

[@jmangames5562]

To think anybody thinks if somebody who enjoys drinking is evil because of that is literally a fool!! Drinking is not evil in anyway period.

[@Jake-zc3fk]

Damn Brandon, you just keep NAILING it. Yes, this whole Christianity thing is just a shit show of problems. 40,000+ different denominations many of which are convinced that the others are doomed! As a member of a church of Christ I remember our preacher telling me that we could not assist another denomination in town with their community aid efforts as they taught false doctrines. WHAT! Are you kidding me! Yep, a real shit show.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Damn. Thats nuts but also not that surprising. The arrogance is just overwhelming. Thanks so much, Jake!

[@utubepunk]

The Holy Spirit (TM) really let Mike down that time, didn't it?

[@donaldlawson1334]

It’s amazing what happens when you allow yourself to view Christian epistemology and the Bible critically. It falls apart in the most spectacular way.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thats a great way of putting it.

[@kenthovindscpa9466]

I highly dislike Mike Rightwinger, but I dig your channel

[@MrCanis4]

He knows very well how to 'use' an apology to 'score'.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Lol. Thanks so much!

[@Y0urY4kuza]

I love your “If you just…” monologues hahaha

[@jmangames5562]

So these pastors are called by God and he puts on there heart the message for the weeks sermon from scripture, and they constantly mess up and interrupt it wrong. Yeah that's not confusing at all. Sorry but there is not rational excuse for God not coming and delivering his message himself eliminating all doubt. Instead you have many many versions of his UNPROVEN word and 45,000 denominations. But Gods not the author of confusion right? lol wait lets blame it on Satan he is why its all confusing. Really! Still God would be allowing it and therefore leading people astray then punishing them for it. Plus Satan is the great deceiver, if someone is deceived they do not know it that is what deceived means. So God allows people to be deceived into eternal punishment by him when he could stop it? How do you know if your Pastor is deceived? by reading a book that says there inspired from God yet they still mess up? I could go on for ever about all the ridiculous reasoning people give and how I and many other men and women could do such a better job than God of the bible has done. Step 1 do not create or allow Sin.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Preach! 100%

[@nicolab2075]

'Follow the gourd!' 'No, follow the sandal!' Subscribed 😊

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Ha! Thank you and welcome. Appreciate you being here

[@davidbudge8359]

Has Mr Whinger just called Jesus evil as he turned water into wine at the Cananite wedding?😊

[@MindShift-Brandon]

One of the wingers did. Still a bit confused which side of the coin he came out on. So either old or new winger should have thought this. But we dont even need to worry about this appearance of evil. Jesus being the same as god the father was straight up actionably evil.

[@michaelsullivan8897]

My biggest problem with organized religion is what you said first about mike in this video. That your sin makes it harder to find God or that God "goes away from you". Wasn't the point of Jesus coming to earth as a man was to seek out sinners and save us from our sin? Didn't Jesus prefer the vulnerable, the poor, and the sick to religious leaders?! I've never heard such a more ridiculous thing than the hypocrisy of that statement. I think Christianity as a whole was mostly good until man started twisting it to their own values and desires. Great points on your parts! Another good video

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thank you much. Appreciate all that. I do hear how the twisting of christianity for power has made it even worse but it was anything but docile to begin with. The very message is everyone is broken, everyone deserves death and punishment. Every thought is a criminal offense and every breath is that of s fallen and disgusting creature in need of saving. I hate the christian message. But ill stop lol. Thanks again!

[@michaelsullivan8897]

@@MindShift-Brandon I can appreciate that point of view as well, that's essentially why I'm here at your channel. It started with hell anxiety and doubts about the Bible stories. I dislike the negative messages of the Bible and the way it made me feel like I wasn't good enough for God. I was talking more about the loving intentions of Christianity but I see your point that, you can't only take the good and leave the bad. Your videos have Definitely helped me alot with thr hell anxiety so thank you for your dedication and perspective!

[@MindShift-Brandon]

No i understand what you meant. Sorry ha. And thank you so much. I am thrilled to know i have helped in any way.

[@yy3hh]

What mic do you use? As an audio engineer I'm always curious.. and it sounds great.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Im glad to hear that! Im always worried about quality. I use a simple blue yeti with a pop filter and then run it in audacity to normalize, compress, and adjust bass and treble before syncing it with the video

[@MybridWonderful]

This is only a Protestant problem. The concept of "infallibility" as applies to the Pope means interpreting the Bible. The Pope is infallible in interpreting the Bible and whatever the Pope says regarding Biblical interpretation the Catholic laity must follow. If you want a deep dive into this topic then research "sola scriptura". Of course the reason the Protestant reformation happened to begin with is the Catholic clergy were teaching all kinds of things such as indulgences and Limbo that aren't in the Bible. Add even more on top of that with the 2nd Vatican in the 1960s where the infallible Pope previously blamed all Jews for the death of Christ. This antisemitism formed the basis of Hilter's Germany. Seems like something the Popes prior to the 2nd Vatican got very very wrong by the Church's own admission and apology for.

[@ZeusAssassin]

Wrong. No one can speak for a God. And why would any God not just speak for themselves. It's always some mysterious and convoluted manner to reveal truth. More fuel that all of Christianity is fake and used to mislead others.

[@ZenWithKen]

MW would explain it this way. His god allowed him to be wrong so that he could find the problem and fix it. Fixing it made his faith stronger. It was gods way of making him a better Christian. The fact that the problem happened is irrelevant because it's our sinful ways that make us interpret the bible incorrectly. We must prey for guidance and let god work through us. See how easy it is...

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Oh its so easy. I think i become a millionaire if i went the apologetics route lol.

[@cvanunen]

Amazingly well put. Good job. 👏🏼

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thank you very much!

[@tomsenior7405]

Great work. I believe you are honestly helping people. Unlike the slimy oik that is Mike Winger, you speak the truth. As a Historian, I am well aware of the atrocities committed by Christianity through the centuries. I am learning more and more about the crimes and evil acts of bad agents who exploit believers nowadays. It is not pretty. Christians need to know that they can walk away from organised religion, without it harming their faith.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thank you for this!

[@rstephennichols4908]

Sorry but you lost me on this one. Mike Winger uses the Bible to hurt. He is absolutely cocksure of his interpretation of scripture when he damns people who don’t believe exactly as he does. At best this is performative humility over a minor issue to polish his image for his adherents. Mike Winger is not a good person

[@MindShift-Brandon]

I dont know him well enough to say. Ive seen him with some terrible arguments and agree that his message ultimately will harm just like this religion does. My goal was not to attack or defend him though. It was to point out the issue with any christian ever feeling they know for certain something from the bible and then being wrong.

[@mariearce8021]

Oh yes, the landscape is messy, very very messy. As an unbeliever, saying "I don't know" is the honest approach related to anything. I work to use critical thinking and doing credible research on everything and I've found that this isn't accepted by many people. It is work and it's not easy and so many don't seem to want to go there. I think it's changing though and that's a positive thing-it's just not happening fast enough, lol. Thank you again.

[@hamobu]

"The word is perfect but it's humans who are imperfect" How? Like isn't the whole point of words to communicate meaning to humans? That's like saying "my cooking is delicious but humans are not advanced enough to taste it." If nobody likes it by then it's not delicious by definition. If it's not conveying information accurately then it's not perfect.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thats a great analogy

[@johnfox9169]

It is a shame some people have a need to believe in the horse manure that is Christianity. Listen to the nonsensical things expounded in that faith. No real God would have authored a screed like the Bible and the religious ideas it contains. Christian apologists have a near-endless list of excuses for the so-called failings of their fellow believers.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

It really is absurd when you zoom away from it.

[@bradypustridactylus488]

Ever since I took my first class in linguistics, what has fascinated me is how language represents reality. When people say, "Knowledge is justified true belief." it means that some configuration of the human brain (mostly expressed in language as a proposition) represents the outside reality accurately. The term "knowledge" is supposed to mean that we have somehow successfully bridged the divide between epistemology and ontology. At this point, my thinking dissolves into a muddle and I get a headache. Nevertheless, I am certain that no holy book has the attributes required to build that bridge.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

This is a unique way of putting it. Thanks for this!

[@ChrisSmith-xh9wb]

Only last week my wife asked me what the relationship is between ontology and epistemology ( in relation to her master's thesis) . I tried to get my head round it, but like you my thinking dissolved into a muddle. I stopped thinking before I got to the headache stage.

[@chameleonx9253]

I've always had a bit of an issue with the definition of knowledge as "justified true belief," because it seems like it's sneaking in some circularity when you start trying to define what "belief," "true," and "justified" actually mean. I could never really articulate it well enough to point to a specific problem, though. I think the reason it's so hard to pin down is that when it really comes down to it we have no choice but to assume the external world as a brute fact, even though there's no way for us to ultimately verify anything our senses tell us (since our senses are the only access we have to the external world). The only thing we can KNOW with absolute certainty, are analytic statements like "all triangles have three sides," or "the sum of any two positive integers will be a positive integer," because those statements are true by virtue of us defining what those words mean.

[@MrFringehead]

The knowledge we can obtain about reality has "bumpers" of a sort built-in. If we misapprehend reality badly enough, we cease to be a conscious observer of reality. It's not a coincidence that the speech of the severely mentally ill typically devolves into "word salad." The links among behavior, language and meaning gets all mixed up and the result is usually self-destructive. But what happens if we misunderstand fiction? The "big book of mental illness" that clinicians use to diagnose patients has frequent disclaimers that following along with a prevailing cultural or religious belief isn't a symptom of illness. We have a weird case where you can go completely insane in a limited context and still achieve a better life outcome as a result of bonding with people who also share your beliefs. It's hard to argue that religion is harmful when, on an individual basis, the selection pressure goes the other way.

[@chameleonx9253]

@@ChrisSmith-xh9wb The simplest way to put it is that ontology is what things exist, and epistemology is how we know what things exist. For example, it is an ontological statement to say that an external world exists apart from our minds. It is an epistemological statement to say that we can only learn about the external world through empirical observation.

[@mikebartling7920]

I enjoy listening to and feel empowered by MindShift. I finally found in MindShift the courage to help me through my own christian deconstruction. Would you make a video addressing the child molestation's by christian clerics? Also address the coverups that have, and I assume that still are taking place protecting the churches? Thank You.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thats very kind of you to share. And yes i will add it to the list!

[@smithgorrilugum4574]

I grew up listening to fundamentalist Christians proudly crowing;"The Bible says it. I believe it. That settles it!".

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Same here. And yet they all still argue over what it actually meant lol

[@followthewolves1991]

5:33 - something that i don't understand is, why would god allow something like this to happen in his word? Why would he allow something as simple as a different translation/interpretation change the whole meaning of verse? The bible is supposed to be gods guide to salvation, and he lets something like that slip through?

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Exactly. Leaves one of two conclusions. Hes bad at this and not as powerful or all knowing as he claims or he simply doesn’t exist and this is all man made. Im going with option 2.

[@TH3F4LC0Nx]

I feel your frustration. I stopped trying to make it make sense a long time ago. God said man was never made to be alone; Paul said it's better not to touch a woman. Samson had long hair; Paul said it's a shame for a man to have long hair. Slavery was apparently bad in Egypt but totally fine for the Hebrews. Winged insects are unclean, but John the Baptist lived almost exclusively on winged insects. What can you do? 🤷‍♂ And I really don't like the whole "you have to be divinely inspired to arrive at the correct interpretation" argument. That's like giving someone a book written in code and then only maybe giving them the cipher. The gate is narrow indeed!

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Love that list of contradictions!

[@ztrglider]

😮 I never made the connection between the tower of babel and the "fullness of time" apologetic. That's an excellent point.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

And i didn’t know that terrible excuse had a name. We’ve helped each other! Thanks

[@CesarScur]

I feel you. But at the same time i trust Jesus. The only way to reconcile this is by following the fathers and never stepping out. And from the early Church we see the doctrine of the bishop succession. Meaning it boils down to the Catholic or Orthodox claim. That boils down to the Pope. And from the orthodox I learned that the Church has a hierarchy and you should respect it bu they don't. And in the Catholic Church i saw the priests never demanding respect but waiting patiently the prodigal son in prayer precisely as Our Lord thought.

[@rrickarr]

John MacArthur would qualify as NO. 1 qualifying for self-righteous narcissism!

[@exmormonroverpaula2319]

Joseph Smith ran into the same problem with the Bible that Mike Winger does here. The Bible is confusing and contradictory, and different people interpret it in different ways. This bothered him. Unfortunately, instead of figuring out that maybe the Bible was man-made, Smith got the idea that the Bible had been corrupted and needed to be restored and clarified. Smith decided that he was the man for the job. Smith thought he could make the Bible all plain and clear again, and everyone would be convinced. It didn't work out quite the way Smith envisioned. The Book of Mormon was part of this, it was a sort of supplement to the Bible that resolved a number of thorny Biblical issues that Christians were worrying about in Smith's time. Smith also tried to make his own translation of the Bible that would restore the original texts, based on Smith's own supposed power to receive revelation from God. The resulting texts are quite interesting, in the sense that they show what a person from the 1830s wished the Bible had said. One of these texts is the Book of Moses, which has Moses talking about Jesus Christ, baptism, the Holy Ghost, etc. In the end it all proved too difficult for Smith, and his Bible translation was left uncompleted at Smith's death.

[@ChadToney]

Oh man this gives me flashbacks because I remember hearing this verse all the time and somebody specifically using this verse on a younger me. I went and looked at different translations and figured out they were using it incorrectly. A young skeptic was formed?

[@billguthrie2218]

Yah... This is what happened to me regarding hell / eternal torment. When I dug in while studying to be a minister, I realized all those preachers were wrong / just repeating a dogma they had been taught which was not actually taught in the Bible. All reading into the Bible what they wanted it to say. That was a huge blow to my faith in Christian leaders / authorities. Didn't take long before I eventually saw through the fraud and left the faith.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

I wonder if winger will ever get there

[@ChrisSmith-xh9wb]

You could have refuted the leaders/authorities and stayed in the faith. Christianity is a relationship between you and God, not submission to earthly authorities. Having said that, any of us can get things wrong and should not hold onto our views too tightly.

[@billguthrie2218]

@@ChrisSmith-xh9wb I did continue in the faith refuting many other things until I refuted it all.

[@timfallon8226]

​@@ChrisSmith-xh9wb Stayed in the faith according to who? Your own best guess? Your own best guess according to whichever version of the Bible you are using?

[@timfallon8226]

All humanity needs is for magic Jesus to appear every few years, show us his magic powers and then we would all believe. If magic Jesus did it once why not again?

[@drumguy1384]

What I find interesting is that he shows example after example of various translations of the Bible that say "every form" or "every kind" but has a crisis of faith over one particular version saying "every appearance." It seems to me that he is putting some extra reverence for the KJV as a more authoritative source for the intent of the author than these other translations that may have come from more authentic sources or done with more scholarly rigor in the translation. I'm not saying that is the case for all of them, but among Bible scholars, the KJV is not often considered the most accurate source. Speaking of King James, while he didn't have a hand in the day to day translation of the KJV, he was quite taken with witch hunting, which he considered a branch of theology. He even published a pamphlet "Daemonologie" about the phenomenon of "witchcraft" and personally oversaw the torture of accused witches. Not an incredibly enlightened time for Christianity that this particular interpretation of Scripture came out of. One could imagine that a society that would torture women to death for "appearing" to be witches might shy away from the "appearance" of evil as a matter of piety.

[@fadedglory1045]

Jehovah’s witnesses believe this is all allowed to show Satan ( now the god if this system) is a failure. And not only to teach humans a lesson but all the angels watching. That allowing this “bully” to play out his scheme all watching will come to the conclusion only gods rule can solve all the problems. And only 144,000 will rule in heaven with Christ for 1000 years then it all gets turned back to Jehovah. All of this suffering to teach a lesson in who’s the best to rule the earth.

[@velvetvideo]

I really like Mike. I'm glad you didn't just blast him and acknowledged we're all human and mess up.

[@chrisgreen8803]

Excellent work as always 🎉🎉🎉🎉

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thanks, Chris!

[@uncleanunicorn4571]

Oh no, see - my interpretation is the CORRECT one, because I alone have the Holy Spirit!!!!!!

[@MindShift-Brandon]

There it is. Its so gross right?

[@uncleanunicorn4571]

@@MindShift-Brandon lol, You should pray until God reveals to you how right I am.

[@YY4Me133]

Alcohol is a "sin"? The Jesus character in their "holy" book turned water into wine. Am I missing something?

[@MindShift-Brandon]

i brought this up to a pastor once and was told that wine was different back then. SMH

[@YY4Me133]

@@MindShift-Brandon If it was different, it wasn't wine. They just seem unable to accept that their beliefs have no basis in reality, and neither do their apologetics.

[@ziploc2000]

I confess I get Mike Winger and Matt Walsh confused, they look very similar and have the same initials. As you say, we should each be able to "understand the message" without having to go through an interlocutor, and without having to earn doctorates in Theology, Ancient Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic. The very fact that all these diverse versions of the bible and Christianity exist should convince anyone not heavily indoctrinated in their version of the "faith", that the whole deal is BS, cooked up by a bunch of greedy old men in order to give themselves, and hold onto, power and money.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Preach! Agree. Thanks for being here.

[@humpbackdelorean]

Clicked on this thinking you were a Christian. You've got that ambiance down. Enjoyed!

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Ha! Thank you much.

[@thinkingsapien6338]

It's time to get into science fiction instead of religion. If we want to keep religion, just add the tag fiction... Because it's fiction. Let's be honest

[@errolwhyte1450]

Thank you. Mike Winger is so terribly dishonest. I have not found one apologist that can make it thru one of their shows without being dishonest. I enjoy your response videos. You're one of my favorite KZbinrs....if not favorite. You're doing an awesome job.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

That is so kind and encouraging to hear! I appreciate that very much!

[@Horaciojonesjr]

Agnostic specific here. My Christian friend has hit me with the “our thoughts are not gods thoughts” line so many times bruh.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Oh man. Its always such a cop out. Then why share any of his god thoughts with us in the first place? I wont worry about the thoughts he didnt share but im sure as hell gonna judge him on the ones he did.

[@jacobrobbins3147]

I’ve been trying to articulate this concept for a long time, and that was better than anything I’ve come up with

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Glad to help out words to it!

[@Ex_christian]

He is a professional liar if he’s a pastor. Just from that we know there isn’t any truth from his mouth or any Christian.

[@letsomethingshine]

I wonder if the original Greek meant form/type or shape/appearance.

[@EluviumMC]

If only there were a god that just chose to speak directly to his chosen instead of relying on trying to speak through 2000 year old texts in foreign languages that have had to be translated and interpreted and then recommunicated through some kind of clergy.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Right. This is not this hard. Just excuses for lacking the obvious thing.

[@Bojan12]

He already does

[@EluviumMC]

@@Bojan12 if that's true, it's not very good at it.

[@Warrior-re5fn]

WOW! Thank you brother. I love your channel. I have recently left the christian faith because of this very reason. Every time I would bring up a alternate understanding of scripture I was shunned and told I'm always going down a rabbit hole or totally disrespected for my views. I appreciate you. I was heavy into Mike Winger and I love the respect you give him. I share your teachings on my Facebook page. I was in a Christian Motorcycle club and heavy involved in that ministry for years. It's sad how I'm treated because I have opened my eyes to truth. Again thank you bro👍🏼😁

[@MindShift-Brandon]

My absolute pleasure. So glad to hear you made it out, but man i feel for you. That respect snd community just dwindles away. But you’re here now, in the truth, and brave enough to do so. Welcome!

[@user-lh5li8ll7i]

Hey, the problem is Protestantism not Christianity. The whole idea of Bible Alone and Personal intrerpretation are Protestant doctrines never practiced in Christianity until they were invented 500 years ago. If you research the first 1500 years of the the faith u will see it was different, the Catholic Church is Christ's Church and it was founded on the Apostles, the rest are just random people like Mike Winger, picking up Bibles and telling what they think it means. Hope this helps, God bless

[@user-lh5li8ll7i]

This might be of interest to you kzbin.info/www/bejne/kISbnn6an86nkKc

[@cygnustsp]

@@user-lh5li8ll7i I've watched Council of Trent and others Catholic apologists cover Winger and the sola scriptura doctrine. Hard for me to disagree with them, even as an exJW who left that church because I wasn't allowed to have my own feelings about stuff the Bible said or didnt say. I think it's pretty silly to go strictly by "the Holy Spirit is what teaches you." And I find it amusing when Catholics call it "bibliolatry" in that they worship the printed paper and not God so much.

[@floppynwah8141]

​@@user-lh5li8ll7iwell catholic is one branches. But technically orthodox Christianity pre dates the catholic branch. The apostles started the orthodox branches from Greek too Ethiopian. The great schism is our mistake not Gods. Peter is not better or worse than any other follower of jesus. As a modern human looking back at what happened. Seems every apostle walked away from Pentecost with wildly different understanding of what they had just experienced. Mary magdalene being the first Jesus appeared too is the only thing the new testament agrees on? Ava Maria my friend

[@emmanuelpiscicelli6232]

So god needed roman roads to spread his message ❓️ As kirk once asked why does god need a starship ❓️

[@LostSniper777]

Isn’t the Holy Spirit supposed to guide you into all truth?

[@snooganslestat2030]

If only the bible was the perfect inereent word of god. 🤔

[@johnnolen8338]

"Jesus loves me. This I know for the Bible tells me so." 🎶

[@somersetcace1]

Yeah, this isn't the greatest example of what you're talking about, but yeah, it leads to the same basic conclusion. Even if the bible were the inerrant word of a god, the fact that it has to be translated and interpreted by fallible humans, makes it essentially worthless as a source of objective, divine knowledge. And yes, one would think a god would know that and do better.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

For sure. Theres a multitude of examples out there but like you said it always leads to the same options which you listed well. Thanks for watching.

[@ChrisSmith-xh9wb]

HIstory shows us that the written word is the most effective way of spreading ideas Even if fallible human beings are used in the process, the ideas remain intact.

[@somersetcace1]

@@ChrisSmith-xh9wb That's fine in that context. I'm not suggesting the bible is useless in and of itself. It's a fascinating look at a culture, but as an objective source of divine revelation? Not so much.

[@maggiebarrett7300]

@@ChrisSmith-xh9wbHistory shows us that the copious ‘interpretations’ of the so called ‘inerrant word’ has resulted in thousands of different christian sects, each one convinced that THEIR interpretation is the only truth, which has led to a history of horrific persecution, torture and bloodshed, among christians themselves. You would think that a supposedly omniscient being would be capable of inspiring a book that did not lead to such a scenario.

[@joycesky5041]

Hey Brandon..."I don't know" how Mike Winger performs all those acrobatics, gymnastics, ballet dances, and how he twists and contorts himself into a pretzel with his apologetics and he knows exactly what he's doing and how to do it...damn he's good! Except we got his number so he can't fk around with us because we know that bible inside out. Pine Creek Doug knows exactly how to mop the floor with Winger and Doug is an expert at what he does especially with thought experiments. But Winger is a great guy so please cut him some slack because he's a victim of ludicrous and incidious ideas of indoctrination from an evil book that he just hasn't realized YET and hopefully someday he will...at least he has some humility to admit that he was wrong and that's more than I can say about 90% of the Pastors and the rest of the Christian people I once knew. He's just like we all were at one time. I have the solution for Pastors who drink....just stay home and get sh*t-faced so they don't cause someone out in public to stumble! Lol 🤣🤣🤣🤣 GO Brandon! GO Pine Creek Doug! 👍👍👍👍

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Love this comment. Thanks for the input

[@19Rick84]

Dude! This video was so spot on. Awesome!

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Oh thanks, man. Appreciate that very much.

[@henrytberry]

The muslims get this one right. They regard the Quran as untranslatable. If you are reading a book that purports to be the Quran in a language other than the original Arabic, you are at best reading a commentary. Strengthening their view, he Quran was revealed to Muhammad by god through the angel Gabreli in various episodes during the early years of the Sixth Century, and they wrote it down at the time, and have kept it whole and accurate ever since. Unlike the Christian New Testament, it wasn't written years or decades after the events, with the manuscripts subsequently handed down with dubious provenance. The Arabic Quran muslims read today is the book revealed to Muhammad. Orthodox jews take pretty much the same view regarding the Hebrew Bible, although there is the document problem, in that there are no documents until centuries or even millennia after the events. But in either case, there is no analogy to the 'inspired' King James Bible held sacred by those fundamentalist idiots who will accept no substitutes, since they can't read the original languages. Of course, the problem with this is that learning the three original languages of the Christian Bible - Biblical Hebrew, koine Greek and Aramaic - is hard, and since most Christians in my experience don't even read it in English, and have next to no grip on what it says, this is unlikely to be rectified. The passage that Rev. Winger believes he has been mis-teaching for years is a fascinating one. One of my favorites, as it happens. The Greek word in question, eidos, only appears a scant five times in the Bible, and can mean both appearance as well as kind. I gather that most commentators think that 'kind' is the better translation in the context. I don't understand koine Greek, so I look to experts in these matters. However, the particular sort of 'evil' Rev. Winger proffers as an example, public drinking of an innocuous sort, such as having a glass of wine while dining out with his wife, is the sort of thing - among many, many other things - that corrupts the various iterations of Calvinism that infest and infect American Christianity. Just read 1 Timothy 5:23, where Paul tells us to drink not only water, but take a little wine for the sake of one's stomach. Surely the Christian minister having a glass of wine with dinner is simply doing what Paul has directed him to do? (The various fundamentalist commentators who assert that by 'wine' the Bible means unfermented grape juice are of course idiots. One such idiot, I forget his name, wrote an entire book proving that the early Christians, including Christ and the apostles, eschewed wine.) The Hebrew sacraments include wine. Many Catholics believe that during mass wine undergoes transubstantiation into the blood of Christ. Christ drank wine at the last supper, and indeed the cup, which supposedly was later the vessel that caught the blood from his wounds at the crucifixion, is the holiest object in popular Christian mythology, the Grail. Wagner wrote an opera about it and there is the Indiana Jones movie. Nonetheless, fundamentalist Christians eschew wine when theologically one would think they should be embracing it. Once you begin to go down the 'appearance' of evil' path, rather than actual evil, i.e., presumably immoral acts of some defined sort, you venture into insanity. Should we avoid fornication? If a minister and his wife have children, surely they were fornicating. Perhaps they, like the Shakers should avoid it altogether. Of course, because of such stricture the Shakers disappeared as a community, although they did leave behind some lovely furniture. Frankly such insanity in my view characterizes much of the contemporary American Christian fold. It leads down utterly crazy paths, such as to voting for Donald Trump, but perhaps I digress. I should be clear, not that anyone cares. I think the Bible is a wonderful book. It is the most important book in the history of Western culture, and if you are not familiar with it you cannot understand much of Western literature, music or art. And much of it is itself profound and beautiful - one of my favorite passages in all of literature is Ruth's speech to Naomi where she famously says, "wither thou goest, I will go." Wonderful. And I don't think it makes it more wonderful to believe it actually happened. You can't really read Shakespeare without familiarity with the Bible - Macbeth's great "tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow" soliloquy - to my mind, the greatest bow to nihilism in all of literature - is twelve lines long and contains no fewer than eight biblical references. Of course, taken literally, or as a guide to how our our universe was created, or as a support for the notion that humans are special and imbued with a touch of the divine, the Bible is nonsense. And that circles back to your point. I don't think that your "I don't know" is right here. We almost certainly do know. I don't know if there is a god rather than none, although I believe there are none, but I am as certain as I can be about anything, given Humian limitations, that Christian theism is nonsense, and the stuff in the Bible regarding the supernatural is simply false. So to with all of man's other religions. Utter nonsense, and I think we can 'know' that as surely as we know the sun will rise tomorrow. For anyone who got this far, this is my crackpot KZbin post of the day.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thank you for sharing. I did read and enjoy it all but wont be able to respond to it all. Intoo appreciate the bible for what it is but i weigh it carefully against the harm it brings. Also a huge lover of ruth. The video on ruth comes out this Thursday and i expressed similarly as you did here when filming it.

[@sidvicioux]

alcohol is a barrier to some people being christian? hmmmmm.

[@special3585]

I am to the point where I can’t even stand Winger’s voice

[@John-3_16]

I watch Winger and respect his honesty when his conclusions requires rework. I don’t sense Mike is a narcissist and usually see Mike willing to be wrong in light of the revelation given at that moment. I agree the “if’s” drive me bananas or the “well if you do this in such n such way… then God can” or “maybe God is doing… fill in the blank.” I wonder since the word is alive and active could we (like) any spiritual growth, can that lead us to greater knowledge and understanding over time? Now I do believe “we know in part” and should be able to say authentically “honestly I do not know said topic emphatically but the test suggests” XYZ. Because I had to learn the mysteries of God where there is true mystery that the Bible does not for certain explain. Maybe inferences here and there to describe said topic. My hope is that Mike is honest and humble enough be okay with not knowing but I definitely see your point of view.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

And that side came across here from him but in other videos, its downright harmful, and not open at all. To see what i mean, watch my divine hiddenness video.

[@kennymartin5976]

Indestructible ark nothing. God could just materialize a perfect Bible into every home on earth whenever he wanted. What's the point of even having prophets and scribes? He could just zap a crystal clear bible up every time he wanted.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Right! A billion better options. How bout jesus shows up for dinner with every family on earth at the exact same time

[@Anony3141592]

Mike, Mike, Mike... have you been fitted for a millstone-neckpiece? Have those who led you astray been fitted for theirs?

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Love a good scriptural burn!

[@gregcampwriter]

It's the anti-humanism of Christianity that most turns me away from the religion. (The lack of evidence is a reason not to believe, while the anti-humanism makes belief undesirable.) If people like Winger would say that there is general inspiration calling us upward, our duty being to put forth our best efforts to rise, that would be one thing. Instead, Christianity preaches, so far as I can understand things, that we are to be passive recepticles, but that we must not err in what we passively receive. It commands slavery, then blames any slave who obeys the wrong set of orders.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

So well put. Thank you!

[@PetarStamenkovic]

Truth exists. Truth is one. Deviation from the truth hurts. The more we get things wrong, the worse off we are. If we persist in being wrong we will die. The wronger we are the faster we deteriorate. However, being limited beings, prone to liking things that sound good, but are not good, we will inevitably die. Unless we trust that the truth will set us free and grant us eternal life, a life that we could not attain, no matter how close to perfect and good and true we get on our own merit. To make this idea more concrete, think about eating. There is a proper nutrition that will sustain and nourish us. The broad road that leads to destruction is deviation from this proper path. If we eat too much, or too little or make any other mistake- it shows on our body. The bigger mistake we are making in our nutrition, the more obvious the fruit of our action is. Only the proper path will sustain us the longest. If we eat too little, we become unnaturally skinny and prone to sickness. This is also true for the other sin- other "missing the mark" (an archery term). Eating too much will also show and will also make us more sluggish, foggy and unhealthy. If we persist in poor nourishment we will die fast. We cant eat perfectly well because we are limited and ignorant. But even if we could, we would sin- that is miss the mark in other areas of life. We will still die due to our sin. Only in accepting our limitation and our dependence on the source of truth- God, can we have hope in being saved by the truth. We can have reasonable faith that this is the case, because even now, in our limited existence and place in time, we see this play out. Those who struggle to find the truth and live near it do better than those who stray and insist on inventing new reality. Thank you for reading and have a nice day.