Mindthief FULL class guide and strategy for Gloomhaven

[@bitcoingoblin8037]

If I could drop more likes on this video, I would. This is probably the most helpful guide I've ever seen for any game ever. Great work.

[@MandatoryQuest]

Thank you dude glad you liked it!

[@markusjagering7449]

Maybe "The Mind's weakness" would have been more balanced and still good if it were +1 Attack and Pierce 1.

[@MandatoryQuest]

We have talked about that before actually in some of my other videos. Pierce was criminally underused in my opinion in Gloomhaven, but that seems to have been addressed in Crimson Scales and Frosthaven. Pierce 1 is now considered to be on average 0.5 damage more. Of course on some enemies it does nothing but it keeps it relevant and useful as you level up too. I think its a good nerf to the card, but I would also like to see some of the other augments brought up a bit in power to make them more useful too.

[@MandatoryQuest]

Yey Davinci finally rendered this video! :) GH tools and resources spreadsheet bit.ly/3me4u6p Become a Patron for early access to videos - www.patreon.com/mandatoryquest Grab some sweet merch - www.mandatoryquest.com

[@alexandregarin21]

Great guide. I am just starting Gloomhaven and learned a lot from this video. Thanks Dude!

[@TheRobversion1]

i'd disagree about MH bottom not being worth it. I've used mind's weakness + withering claw together and they've worked out great. stamina wise, since i dont use other burns aside from cranial overload and MH, i last a decent number of rounds (23 without stamina pots, 6 long rests). i just keep discarding the augments to put them back into my hand durng a long rest. a L9 though with phantasmal killer available then it might not be worth it anymore but for that level stretch of 5-8 it's been pretty good.

[@feral_orc]

I've rewatched your class guides for our unlocked characters several times over the last few weeks. I only got to play physical Gloomhaven three times before "recent events", and me and two of my friends have been having a blast going through things now. We just finished Scenario 20 last night, retired our cragheart for Saw and are super close to retiring Tinkerer for Sun. We had serious trouble progressing until I found your channel. I wanted to ask how you think the new advantage rules effect perks for characters who might fish for specific attack cards like Three Spears. Is it now safe to take all the rolling modifiers? And how does the digital version handle ambiguous results for advantage? I haven't picked up the digital version yet because I want to do more of the physical version first and I was curious about this too. I really love the channel and can't wait to catch a livestream, appreciate all the hard work.

[@jorisgarcia6927]

There is an option now that you can pick in digital to not roll into a x0 when you have advantage.

[@Turtlewax88]

Played the tabletop version of JotL with friends and now I'm full on playing the Guild Master mode alone in the digital version. I love the Mindthief and I love how you can play her in different playstyle, at least on normal difficulty where I'm at for the moment. Not gonna lie, always liked the summoner archetype in my rpg games and this game is no exception so I'm running her with double summons for now and it's a lot of fun!

[@xethnyrrow]

Excellent guide as always. Talking about higher vs lower difficulty ideas is great for helping even more players!

[@MandatoryQuest]

Thanks buddy!

[@maxmustermann-zx9yq]

@@MandatoryQuest I would say that's a shame that warhammer is only stun on melee attack otherwise mass hysteria would be a "choose 4 targets to stun anywhere in the room" with a same level tinkerer being able to refresh the warhammer without a burn

[@nonsensical521]

Interesting to hear your thoughts, as you know from Community Save Sunday I love the Mindthief. I've played a lot on +2, only a couple of scenarios in to +3 so don't really know how that will change things. At level 1, I like Gnawing Horde but as you say it's very close with Withering Claw. I also think it's worth mentioning with regards to The Mind's Weakness that it makes default attacks hit for 4, nice option to have with Scurry if it turns out you don't need to move. Level 3 is the biggest difference of opinion we have, you are much higher on Brain Leech than I am. I find that having 3 non-move bottom actions can be awkward, even with Scurry, and I think Perverse Edge and Into The Night are better. Strengthen is obviously great but the enhancement is a much better way to get it. Maybe that's why we differ, you don't like the OP while I'll unashamedly rush it even at the increased price. :P I also tend to go the other way at level 6, but honestly you could flip a coin there. My reason is that I usually have Stun Powder at that level and love to use it with Dark Frenzy bottom. Psychic Projection is such a shame, even if you took away the burn I don't think it would be the best choice. What I'd really like to do is add an infinity symbol on there and open up a whole alternate build. :)

[@RodJSmith]

When talking about Many as One (level 9 card), you mention you're not your own ally for the purposes of calculating the attack bonus granted by the aura. There seems to be an exception to this "ally != self" rule with the battle goals. There's a goal that says "Don't let any allies become exhausted'. I've managed to fail this battle goal despite the only character becoming exhausted being the character with the goal itself. This would imply that a character does count as it's own ally.. This contradiction is a bug maybe?

[@dm9910]

Since MT is a starter character, unless you return to her later you're probably not going to have access to some of the items you recommended, in particular the helmets, or at least not until right before retirement. I got all the way to level 9 with her and it was only with that +1 prosperity that we finally unlocked major stamina pots for example. Horned Helm is available much earlier and it's awesome on MT who can move 4+ on basically every turn if you want. I put +1 move on Scurry to turn it into effectively 4 move, 4 attack with TMW + HH up. Boots of Striding turn Empathetic Assault into a 4 move also. Not saying it's BIS in endgame but IMO at that stage in progression there's nothing that comes close to that amount of value for 30g. One other thing I liked was enhancing Immobilize onto Fearsome Blade. Against monsters without range it's close to a stun, against ranged monsters you can opt not to push them which stops them from moving back to gain advantage against you. Immobilize kept the card relevant enough to keep bringing along, and so I always had it when I needed it when traps were around.

[@altalyr3165]

I'm playing Mindthief in 3p games (with Scoundrel and Brute), and I find the Flea-bitten-shawn to be very good.

[@mariaczaja3839]

Hi everyone. Maybe someone can help me here. So since you need to take a short/long rest atleast one time, which cards ahould you try to have til the end? Thank you for your help

[@MandatoryQuest]

So when choosing cards to leave there's a few general rules I follow. 1. Make sure to keep 1/2 movement cards of value 3/4 or above. Without these you will waste turns potentially doing nothing between rooms or in large rooms. This is doubly important for the melee characters like the Mindthief. 2. Keep good reusable non burn attacks/abilities. For the Mindthief this would be Frigid Apparition, Perverse Edge, The Minds Weakness etc. It's important to make sure you do this as burning cards makes you need to rest sooner and eventually exhaust earlier. 3. Keep cards suited to the scenario. This one is tricky because it comes more with experience. Some scenarios might have lots of traps or dangerous/difficult terrain so push and jump cards will be very useful. 4. Is the card initiative very important? It is generally good to keep a good spread of both early and late initiative numbers to outplay enemies and combo with your team, however in general I always lean towards keeping early initiatives so I can go before the enemies. 5. Did the card perform well in your last cycle through your cards? Sometimes it can be easy to pick out a card that actually didn't do much except maybe used as a move 2. Be careful though because sometimes good burn abilities are best saved for the right moment and that might not have come yet. I would also not over focus on XP gain either as you can fall into a trap of wanting to keep cards just to gain XP which might not win you the scenario. Hope this helps and I might actually make a video on this topic now :)

[@mariaczaja3839]

@@MandatoryQuest it’s indeed very helpful. Thank you very much. Edit: does your tips only work for the mindthief or are these general rules?

[@MandatoryQuest]

@@mariaczaja3839 these are pretty general. There's only a few characters which operate a bit weirdly like spellweaver with reviving ether, circles, or three spears that might have more specific rest strategies because of their abilities.

[@mariaczaja3839]

@@MandatoryQuest thank you

[@elanters78]

I was a bit surprised you did not mention Horned Helm as a head item? With all the move 4 and above, the +1 would be added quite often? Also, with move 4 bottom and enhanced scurry move 4, even +2 on scurry attack would be possible.

[@MandatoryQuest]

Yeah its very decent especially at the time you find it in the campaign, but I've just found reoccurring OP high prosperity small items more consistent for later game. Definitely a great head slot choice though if you really want to push damage over utility.

[@elanters78]

Aha, my party first played JotL campaign and imported HH directly into GH. With high prosp you mean the insane ear rings (only) I suppose? Not using HH but Emp Talisman as head item for "only" bringing back maj stam potion seems a lower tradeoff for me. However, I do have a Scoundrel in my party with suff damage output already, so maybe HH is a bit overdone. @@MandatoryQuest

[@elanters78]

@@MandatoryQuest on second thought, if I would go for more CC build (and not the Helm). Would enhancing scurry with Jump not be a better option than enhancing +1 move?

[@MandatoryQuest]

@@elanters78 I think it depends on difficulty a bit too. I really value back to back perverse edge and frigid apparition to just lock down enemies. More damage could be a bit swingy I guess if you draw a miss or something, although you can be strengthened a lot on MT too.

[@MandatoryQuest]

@@elanters78 eh Its very close. I guess it depends on boot choice. +1 move if using winged shoes or jump if using striding or plus movement boots maybe but still probably personal preference.

[@nightwyrm4354]

The mindthief is my first character in gloomhaven and is still my favourite after playing with all the classes. She just does what she do so well. My MT in the digital campaign took forever to retire since she had the Vermling quest and so got super rich. I ended up doing loony things like putting a disarm on Scurry and jump on Cranium Overload and it was just incredible. She got the Horned Helm as well which worked very well with how mobile she was. Also very glad they had the houserule on digital to deal with the rolling mod advantage issue.

[@hammerspace8866]

The mindthief was my first character in gloomhaven. We got the fleebitten scarf really early. I think it works really well when there is a tanky melee character in the group. And I liked the initiave dance with the mind thief. Go in late with feedback loop or gnawing horde. Next turn go early attack and run away after that or attack and turn invisible. When invisible go slow the next turn.

[@buzz092]

This is almost exactly my experience and insight with mindthief too. Mine was named Sean Slicer after the White House Press Secretary at the time.

[@hammerspace8866]

@@buzz092 You should consider playing the boneshaper when frosthaven comes out (:P). This is some excellent tread necromancy since my post was 6 months old. But it's nice to see people having the same fond memories about the mind thief.

[@NielsGoetschalckx]

It's so interesting that everyone plays the characters just a little bit different, and that the game allows for such a broad array of decision making. You'd put strengthen on the bottom of Empathetic Assault, while my first MT enhancement was putting a Bless next to that Heal 2 Self. I always thought Bless would be the strongest enhancement, but the fact that strengthening makes you 'immune to miss' (if you're not cursed) might actually be better 🤔

[@MandatoryQuest]

I'm pretty sure there's a thread somewhere on the maths of bless over strengthen looking at potential damage over time. I guess the fact that you may never draw a bless or draw it on an unnecessary attack makes it weaker overall. Having said that though I absolutely think that strengthen is too good and warps the character so you probably made the best decision in terms of balance.

[@maxmustermann-zx9yq]

the guide would also change alot if you play with 2 mercs, 2 mercs makes summons way more viable due to lower amount of enemies aka easier to find a safe space for them, plus cards like silent scream can be really important to keep healing your tanking character (if you use a tanking character that doesn't has much access to heals) for example: I was running scoundrel plus mindthief and at level 1 scoundrel has 1 heal card I didnt take and a road event put wound on my mercs level 1 mindthief can't heal friends so my scoundrel was on a death timer (had to long rest on the first round)

[@Anergyne]

Another difference between Domination and Hostile Takeover is that Domination lets you control the target's actions, rather than the monster AI.

[@MandatoryQuest]

Very true that can be more flexible

[@yukunwang2059]

Finally, been waiting for this for so long. This is gonna be a good one

[@MandatoryQuest]

Hope you like it!

[@yukunwang2059]

@@MandatoryQuest I love it!

[@jgjertsen]

Horned Helm for the Mindthief seemed like the best head item for our build. Lots of opportunities to Move 4+

[@MandatoryQuest]

I think I personally prefer a pendent or talisman a bit more when you get late game / high level prosperity small items, but seeing as you can get horned helm very early on its a great choice.

[@viktorjanosy2789]

I love the mindthief, my favorite starter class by far.

[@MandatoryQuest]

It seems most people agree with you too, it is the top ranked class by the fans :)

[@Vamon_Kinctuarinwhe]

Mandatory is misspelled at the top left.

[@scoobiusmaximus9508]

So I'm not going to claim that you're underrating Submissive Affliction, but I think that the bottom is an action that scales really well at higher difficulties against some really annoying enemies. In particular it can make a Wind Demon disarm their target or a Flame demon kill itself against another Flame Demon's retaliate.

[@Tojofallz]

Love the Fields jersey!

[@MandatoryQuest]

I've committed he's the one!

[@JakeGameFreak]

I really wish Versatile Dagger was available earlier, Mindthief is one of the few classes that would benefit from it. While still an item that's only useful in worst case scenarios, always having the option of an attack 5 with Mind's Weakness gives you some nice flexibility. I think if it was earlier before better options became available, it'd be a great pick up. Anyway, love the Mindthief, was my first class. It does suffer from being a bit inflexible in playstyle, her good cards are amazing and her other builds/options tend to be underwhelming to unviable despite being more interesting thematically.

[@Mephil]

Submissive affliction also synergizes with any passive ability that the enemy has. For example the 3-armed skeletons that has multitarget attacks will allow the ability to attack multiple targets for 2. Also might be controversial but I think disarm is better than stun, just from the sheer fact that there are a lot of enemies that are immune to stun but not to disarm. On the topic of hostile takeover vs domination, domination allows you to choose the targets actions, while hostile takeover only makes the enemy act on its own according to the rules for enemies. So there is more difference than just the range.

[@defgun9160]

Thanks again for the great content. Although I don't consider "Possesion" a card I'm gonna use I just thought that maybe with the new house rule regarding summons movement it might be better. Wouldn't it actually allow a summon with no focus to catch up to the summoner? But then again it's only range 3, so it might only be useful for an ally's summon.

[@dtnuh]

The other difference between Domination and Hostile Takeover is that with Domination you get to control the actions of the target, but not with HT. Still really not enough of a difference to turn the tide.

[@amansparekh]

Playing mindthief crag and spell weaver, who should get boots of striding?

[@vohbovohborian28]

I don't agree that the Mind's Weakness is too strong, I think the other augments are just too weak

[@MandatoryQuest]

Well it turns out in GH 2 - electric boogaloo they disagree. In all seriousness though you are probably right but MT was already one of the best classes so I cant imagine how insane it could of been with other great augments too.

[@vohbovohborian28]

I don't think they disagree, they upped all the base attack damage to compensate, probably because they couldn't balance the other augments properly (or would have to add +1 attack here and there)

[@maxmustermann-zx9yq]

Possessions Move lets summons move up since the no focus makes summoner the focus houserule is enabled on default

[@speed7bump]

Absolutely love these long form guides. Thanks again!

[@MandatoryQuest]

Awesome! thanks glad you like them

[@speed7bump]

In a dream world, you would have slightly shorter versions of this for the Crimson Scales characters

[@MandatoryQuest]

@@speed7bump Unfortunately due to price I couldn't get the physical version, but the TT sim version looks possible between now and Frosthaven.

[@fabriciosepulveda511]

I've made so many poor choices and your tutorial makes me cry over it. I feel dumb after watch your guides. It is really sad you cant respect in gloomhaven. But thank you for your time explaining the game!

[@MandatoryQuest]

If playing physical you can always just respec no one will judge. Digital campaign though unfortunately not.

[@basseon]

A Balanced Blade garantees an attack 6 anytime you don't have something else to do!

[@danhayes2456]

Given that I will be running Empathetic Assault as I feel it is a better strengthen effect than Brain Leech by virtue of having better initiative, healing you for 2 (actually huge for removing poison/wound), has a better top that actually incapacitates an enemy (we should have already healed by 4 from now with Empathetic Assault anyway) AND doesn't require you to start your turn next to an enemy for the attack 1 to have any meaning; would you still run Brain Leech in the flex slot over Fearsome Blade, Cranium Overload, Mass Hysteria, and Hostile Takeover?

[@MandatoryQuest]

That's a tough one. If you consider that Brain Leach is only really used as a bottom (yes you burn the top, but that's not its role) out of those cards the Move 5 on Cranium would probably see more use, and the top is a better burn attack. Having another bottom attack is so good with the Minds Weakness though. That's a hard call and I would probably flex per scenario, If you need move take Cranium, if there's lots of traps or retaliate take fearsome, anything else take Brain Leech. The only one of those cards I probably would rarely consider would be Mass Hysteria.

[@Spekulatiusmann]

hey, i enjoy your guides a lot! i think it would be interesting, if you would rank all the classes and give a short overview how they work and pros and cons (as you do in the beginning oder your guides) - would really love to see it. :)

[@MandatoryQuest]

i did this on stream a month or so ago, but it didn't make for a good YT video. Will do another once we have played through the Jaws of the Lion DLC :)

[@user-sr9qe2zl9w]

Thank you for the guide. I only recently started playing the mindthief, even though I've played for over a year. Great stuff!

[@MandatoryQuest]

Glad you enjoyed it, great character one of the best in my opinion.

[@champadin1755]

Are you a Bears fan? Nice jersey

[@MandatoryQuest]

Yes! Long time suffering fan

[@amansparekh]

How strong would a mindthief augment be that gave you strengthen range 1 on your melee attacks?

[@MandatoryQuest]

It would be good, but you'd never run it because you have other sources of strengthen easily available to you. I think a total rework of her augments and attacks would be needed.

[@cambyses1529]

Love the mindthief, just got to be so careful with placement though, can be one-shot at any time :P

[@MandatoryQuest]

Definitely and that's why into the night invisibility is so useful can protect you from that.

[@slice9996]

Like, comment, subscribed. MT is my favorite starter character!

[@MandatoryQuest]

Thanks I really appreciate it! Cragheart will forever be my favourite, but the Mindthief has to be the strongest.

[@williamlucas1613]

Go Lions.

[@MandatoryQuest]

🐻

[@izraakazekeen]

Sorry i’m still a week new into the game, does these deck perk modifiers somewhat “reset” after you take a long rest? Or will all of them be burn out completely when used up in that whole scenario? Or do they consistently stay inside the deck during a scenario, just whether RNG plays them or not?

[@MandatoryQuest]

They are permanent improvements to your attack modifier deck. They are unlimited use and now just stay in your deck forever. In Gloomhaven you only shuffle your attack modifier deck at the end of any round when you have drawn the miss or 2x critical, or if you need to draw and have an empty draw pile. The only cards that are one time use attack modifiers are typically bless and curse cards. Hope that helps :)

[@izraakazekeen]

@@MandatoryQuest so in a sense, each round end the decks get “reshuffled” correct? Is there any way you could tell what will be used in that specific round or the game won’t tell & it’s completely randomized each round :’).. ALSO YOUR GUIDES HELP ME SO MUCH IN HAVING A BETTER UNDERSTANDING TO THE GAME 😭

[@MandatoryQuest]

@@izraakazekeen nope, they only shuffle when you draw the 2X or the Miss cards. You can hover over the little crossed swords symbol on the left next to your cards to see what's left on your deck. Awesome glad you've found them useful :)

[@izraakazekeen]

@@MandatoryQuest oh gosh i’m so lost finding the right icon :’))).. Do you have a video guide showcasing the game’s mechanics and such? P.s i seem to love Spellweaver & Mindthief quite alot 🤣. And Sunkeeper is just an absolute beast of a tank 🤣🤣

[@danielcaldas332]

I've found the two-handed hook, and surprisingly it is doing wonders with the mass hysteria card. You can actually pull 4 monsters at once.

[@MandatoryQuest]

Just need some traps to profit!

[@danielcaldas332]

@@MandatoryQuest im using it to prepare the map for my friends. Great for the AOE spells of other characters.

[@MandatoryQuest]

@@danielcaldas332 you are a kind team mate! I'm more of a greedy player looking to do the damage myself.

[@Mythdia]

Got to love 1569 xp ;)

[@tbone9474]

I'm very much on the fence regarding the ooze and spike sphere... the ooze is a nice tank who can easily get healed by the sprite every turn, but he does no damage. On the other hand the spike sphere can do retaliate damage, less shields but can still get healed... what would you recommend provided the healing sprite was around?

[@Cantankerous-Bees]

How's the Flea-Bitten Shawl on the Mindthief, I just got it yesterday and it seems like it's perfect for the Mindthief. Edit: Playing 2 characters with a mate playing the Brute

[@deadwhitemales]

Some items really open up a lot of flexibility with this character. When you remember that every top card is potentially attack 4 (with the Mind’s weakness) that gives you flexibility to take top actions that are more situational. Strap on a pair of movement boots to fix the movement woes and find a way to boost those basic attacks and you can dish out so much damage. Still one of my favourite classes and thematically really awesome. Keep up the awesome videos my friend!

[@basseon]

Balanced Blade...or Versatile Blade