An Austrian Critique of the New MMT Documentary

[@eddie8730]

The thing that gets me with MMT is the slave mentality that goes hand in hand with it. It's basically an acknowledgment that the entire economy has been conquered by the state, and they will graciously let us peasants have the privilege of having private sector money because the state is so benevolent to run deficits. That just can't be correct no matter how you package and brand it.

[@jetfaker6666]

Well it is correct in the sense that it's true. The debate is over whether it's morally correct and whether there are alternatives for a modern advanced economy.

[@eddie8730]

@@jetfaker6666 The alternative is bank runs and letting too big to fail ACTUALLY fail. No one wants to do that though

[@jetfaker6666]

@@eddie8730 if no one wants it, it's not a viable alternative

[@eddie8730]

@@jetfaker6666 It's an alternative nonetheless

[@jetfaker6666]

@@eddie8730 if your whole objection to the current system is that it's coercive, then coercing the majority of people into a system they don't like can't be an alternative.

[@StheSharknl]

War is peace Freedom is slavery Ignorance is strength Debt is savings

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

Each debt should have the other side, no?

[@StheSharknl]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World Sure but don’t stop there! What about the value of dollars already in the system? Expanding the money supply decreases the value of money in the system. A dollar is just a medium of exchange. Printing money is like an invincible tax effecting mostly the poor and fixed income holders such as pensioners. If you increase the amount of debt the value of the already outstanding debt decreases. Do you believe in the green money fairy? The green money fairy multiplies everybody’s money times one BILLION. So everybody is a multi billionaire now. Does this create value? Is everybody a billionaire and can buy boats and Ferraris now? Obviously not, prices would adjust due to the lowering of the monetary value (aka inflation, in this case hyperinflation) and bread would soon cost a billion. MMT believes in the green money fairy. One needs to be reeeeaaaalllly high to believe in the green money fairy, give me some of that grass!🧚💨 MMT is like the Enron of academic economics. Accounting tricks don’t create value. The MMT folks got awfully quite when reported inflation was double digits and they will soon be very quite again after the bubble bursts (see Mises index to get a feel how the cycle is progressing)

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

⁠@@StheSharknlPrinting money does not create new real wealth, however there could be a Lack of dollars in the system. Mosler likens it to a runner with a plastic bag over his head. If you remove the bag and thus enable him to run faster, it's not that you've discovered a brand new illegal drug creating performance out of nothing, but you simply removed drag. So the analogy is that too little moneyprinting is stifling the economy. It's a problem created by government, because they imposed the USD monetary system

[@arofhoof]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World "Each debt should have the other side, no?" Lol yes, I don't know why it is such an inshight of the MMTer. Doesn't mean debt is without consequences somehow.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@arofhoofSo think about who the asset holder is then for the $34 trillion

[@NorthernObserver]

MMT has already been refuted by the stagflation we are living through now. It’s also highly ironic how deficit spending is fuelling massive income inequality. It’s not a socialist policy. It’s a managerial policy.

[@arofhoof]

"It’s a managerial policy." Exactly, it is central planning is disguise, it is not a theory but a method to control the economy

[@robertmartin6800]

I reject the framing that MMT isn't part of socialist policymaking just because it has failed to make people more equal. All socialist policy fails, having failed doesn't preclude MMT from being considered socialist policy.

[@keaton8182]

I have always thought of socialist and managerial as being very similar since they both refer to an interventionist government manipulating the economy. What distinction are you referring to?

[@____________________519]

@@keaton8182 In my mind, the difference is that the managerial policy is purely authoritarian, and not driven by any other ideological loyalty. Managers will pay lip service to any ideology in their pursuit of power, and abandon that ideology when it hampers their ability to pursue power. Most socialists that have had absolute power, like Mao and Stalin, were also quick to abandon any and all ideology in the pursuit and maintenance of their power, which is another reason why these policies seem so similar.

[@keaton8182]

@@____________________519 That's interesting! I agree. It seems that collectivism perpetuates romantic lies to the idealists who then become the useful idiots that do the bidding for the authoritarians who weaponize the ideology for power. In my opinion, there are generally only two types of people who subscribe to collectivism. One is confused; the other is evil.

[@troll_kin9456]

MMT: There are no fixed natural rules. It's all normative. MMT: Let's enslave people. Me: That's horrifying... MMT (cocking gun): "We're just describing how the world works!"

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

It does work with coercion nowadays

[@troll_kin9456]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World Yes, because of people like you. You don't get to say "the rules can be whatever we want them to be" and also "we want the rules to be you're my slave" and also "hey, that's just how it is. don't blame me!" If there are no natural constraints, and the rules are whatever we want, you are 100% morally culpable for the rules you advocate for, and should be treated like a war criminal.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@troll_kin9456Wait, coercion existed without my decree. So when I hear MMT saying it is descriptive, that is correct. Now my take is that I plan to use the system to my personal advantage, using my intellect to outsmart those who support taxation.

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World Coercion is not good because it exists. The less of it we have, the better we are all off. This because if you're coercing people to do things, it's very likely to be something those people would not naturally do, for common sense reasons.

[@katiecannon8186]

You vote to have our government force you into over reliance on bank loans Because freedom is you with no government issued dollars to pay your bank back

[@kmg501]

A funny thing to make note of is that even animals will use objects that they find as a bartering item. Like a there is a cat who will daily bring a leaf to a person selling fish to trade for a fish. The fact that animals will barter is really quiet stunning and definitely supports the idea of Human Action.

[@snex000]

Why do they act like the government is somehow magic? If Elon Musk is "too rich," why isn't the government "too rich?"

[@TheDuckofDoom.]

Most people don't want the responsibility and work of being functioning adults so they support more government as a surrogate parent that superficially takes over responsibility for those basic tasks. Of course there is no free lunch, but I don't want to extend this comment detailing all those hidden costs.

[@G_v._Losinj2_ImportantPlaylist]

They’re pushing scheme after scheme, cover after cover until an event happens on all on the way to the ultimate goal.

[@G_v._Losinj2_ImportantPlaylist]

They are selling bribes & running out the clock. While running constant distractions.

[@G_v._Losinj2_ImportantPlaylist]

Most of the public can be shocked by *(1)* GraceCmmsn Findings. *(2)* *”ThmsS0weIIDestroysThTrckIeD0wnArgmt”* (14 min) (1) They only care about their pocket. (2) A shock to their understanding. Could be accompanied by a 9II summary/BBI8pics.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

Yeah they make the mistake of thinking that a country of 5 people actually has 6 entities living in it, the sixth one being The Government. But actually there is just the 5 people.

[@garrettpatten6312]

She's doing straight up word magic. Doesn't "savings clock" make you feel better?

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

It does, the debt is a myth and you had been barking about it for decades for no reason

[@arofhoof]

"She's doing straight up word magic. Doesn't "savings clock" make you feel better?" She say that like there is no other source of saving for the population.. hilarious Without gracious government debt how come people have any saving /s lol

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@arofhoofI guess you could save in gold or something, but monetary savings comes from public debt. So if you want to own 100,000 Japanese yen, there must be a corresponding deficit by Tokyo

[@arofhoof]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World "So if you want to own 100,000 Japanese yen, there must be a corresponding deficit by Tokyo" What if I want 100,00 yen worth of gold?

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@arofhoofThat would work, you could own gold and it wouldn't affect public debt. But any time you desire a fiat currency, for you to actually get it, that country's public debt will have to be above zero. So you cannot own $100 and also have a $0 american public debt.

[@MrLachlan1903]

Renaming debt to 'savings' is genuinly Orwellian.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

It's because one person's savings is another person's debt, at least with Debt Money

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World Incorrect. If I loan you $100 and you spend it on booze, I have a debt owed and you have a liability, not savings.

[@pure_the0ry]

@@willnitschkeyou’re not a sovereign government.

[@willnitschke]

@@pure_the0ry And I don't need to be.

[@pure_the0ry]

@@willnitschke you do if you want your analogy to work😹

[@DrProgNerd]

Using MMT reasoning, I'm going to view the turds my dog left in the yard as filet mignon. I call it Modern Culinary Theory. Thanks to MCT, it's gonna be a gourmet dinner tonight. I'm so lucky.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

Imagine your literal bank account. Aren't you happy it says $40,000 rather than $0? Well Mosler explains your $40k asset is actually the government's debt.

[@rekit7351]

​@Richest_Person_in_the_World isn't there a huge risk of government spending too much or misallocating the funds in mmt? The value of the dollar depends on other countries wanting it. When we print money, we reduce its value which means other nations wont want it, causing its value to fall (which we are seeing now with our money printing). I never hear mmt discuss how other nations will react.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@rekit7351Yeah, probably other nations are not relevant, because MMT dispells the popular view that the U.S. gets all its dollars from China

[@bellakrinkle9381]

You are correct. When other countries sell their US BONDS, they are getting rid of holding US DOLLARS.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@bellakrinkle9381 So then those dollars end up in another account, big whooptie doo

[@MrBonified66]

They really believe that using different words to describe a problem helps to solve it.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

Well when you believe in the myth of public debt, it is out sacred duty to snap you out

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World The problem is you believe in the myth of the myth of public debt.

[@BorselinoThadchack]

the old George Carlin skit....

[@omidood]

Since it’s not actually a problem so yeah

[@willnitschke]

@@omidood Pretending something isn't a problem doesn't make the problem go away. It makes the problem worse.

[@tomrusack3266]

That chart at the beginning must be true by definition, not because MMT is true. Any debt must have a counterparty, liability equals somebody’s asset. Which is why that chart is a mirror image. Interest payments are left out for obvious reasons.

[@heteroerectus]

And never mind that not all assets are equal, some are toxic and some are healthy

[@sneakthieve]

That’s what I’ve been struggling with since seeing the chart and hearing “our red is your black” if I’m the sole supplier of something, it would just follow that my loss is your gain. That’s the only way it can work.

[@lkyuvsad]

What are the “obvious reasons” interest payments are left out?

[@abramgaller2037]

The people at the bottom of the production suffer the brunt of inflation.

[@DannyDanny-rn7ck]

The inflation was created by shifting the tax burden onto labor and self-employed from the fire sector parasites an monopolies where it belongs

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

I don't really believe in inflation

[@abramgaller2037]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World That is silly.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@abramgaller2037Here's what they don't tell you. The value of a single dollar has gone down since 1924, but all dollars viewed together buy more than ever today

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World Only because of productivity gains, not monetary or fiscal policy. All you're really pointing out here is that yeah, the government impoverishes its people, but thanks to the creative capacity of those people operating in a free market, they have managed to keep their heads above water, for now.

[@carusorobi7356]

Please focus on the MMT money creation sequence. If you dont start there, you run in circles. 1. When the government spends, it creates new money to do so. 2. It choses to offer bonds as interest bearing money 3. It independenly collects taxes, closing the loop, redeeming the notes/ dollars where they die and are not used at the federal level. All US dollars that exist in the world were printed / Digitized by the US government. Those dollars in the private sector are government debt (printed dollars not yet collected by taxes). How can it be any other way? If this sequence is not understood, you run in infinite circles where the thinking is skewed, inaccurate, and the real economy does not run at its potential. After 1.5 hours, you have run in circles and not dented the MMT arguments because you are missing the starting point. MMT is how the money system works and is irrefutible (Fed chairmen describe it). Politically, what we chose to do with it is a different question. Both sides have been using MMT since 1971 although unaware. States, municipalities, corporations, and households cannot create money. The US gov can. GE bonds are nothing like treasury bonds. GE needs to raise money because it cannot create it. The gov does not "borrow" or raise money via bonds - it pays interest on top of the money it already created- unfortunately we call it borrowing and debt. Why borrow what you have an infinite supply of? There are error errors in the description of the money system. They just present the ahaa realization wrapped up in a progressive agenda. Your confusing their agenda with an accurate description of the money system (MMT). I hope these comments are constuctive. Thanks for the video.

[@willnitschke]

I didn't read all your comment because you screwed up your first bullet point. 🤣 *When the government spends, it creates new money to do so.* Everything you wrote here is wrong and/or backwards. The government borrows money first, before it can spend it. And it _doesn't_ create the money. The money already exists and is lent to them. (There have been some situation in the past where the Fed has created money, but the Fed is technically not part of the government.) If you can't even get the simplest processes right, you're a complete waste of everyone's time and should not be typing asinine nonsense on the intertubes, sorry.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@willnitschkeNo it creates money. You don't understand point 1 which is why you've been spinning wheels in place for the past month

[@carusorobi7356]

Well there we have it. The distinction, the ahaa moment. Why does the government need to borrow money, when it creates the money as described by Greenspan, Bernanke, and Powell? I meant my comments to be constructive and think they are. Why do people feel the need to go Lucifer on others? Maybe MMT hits a nerve. Good luck with that. MMT is a new paradigm correcting faulty logic.

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World *No it creates money. You don't understand point 1* Right, so some idiot tells me I'm wrong but can't explain _why_ I'm wrong. Even though I explained exactly and clearly why people like you are wrong. 🤣

[@willnitschke]

@@carusorobi7356 *Well there we have it. The distinction, the ahaa moment. Why does the government need to borrow money, when it creates the money* Because it doesn't. Hence there is nothing to discuss.

[@arofhoof]

Alternative name for MMT: Print, baby, print

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

MMT's alternative recommendation is to lower taxes. That should sit well with Austrians

[@MBarberfan4life]

MMT: Magic Money Tree

[@Galacsia]

​@@Richest_Person_in_the_WorldWhat about the inflation tax? Will you remove that one?

[@adamallen1750]

@@Galacsia They claim they'll do that by increasing taxation.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@GalacsiaI don't really believe in inflation. The fine for speeding was 5000 RSD when I got my license in 2020 and now it's 5000 RSD still. Anyway if you feel inflation exists, just make more money. As in, if inflation is 3% you should make 500% more money just to be on the safe side.

[@robertlenders8755]

How do MMTers address Cantillion effects? That the first receivers, necessarily a few large corporations in particular industries due to needing to interoperate with the bureaucrats, benefit by being able to spend before the price inflation takes place. That seems in tension with their at least publicly professed progressive policies.

[@StheSharknl]

A man of culture and knowledge!

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

I don't really believe in inflation. The fine for speeding has been the same in my city since I got my license

[@ctrlaltdebug]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World speeding fines are set by law and are not subject to market forces. Just look at the price of eggs - that's inflation at work.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@ctrlaltdebugSo if I earn 10% more this year, I will able to speed 10% more this year, and inflation is powerless. Sounds like a good deal, so inflation is 0% in my world

[@Dan16673]

​@Richest_Person_inlol_the_World

[@Rob-fx2dw]

MMT is for people who can't put 2 and 2 together but think they can and wonder why when they answer is 5 is that it is wrong.

[@MBarberfan4life]

Moral philosophy? What the heck is that guy talking about?! I studied moral philosophy. Denying the reality of things like supply and demand is literally INSANE.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

Where are they denied

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World The denial part is where MMT's don't understand economics but pretend they do.

[@roderickmorrison]

No offence intended to Bob Murphy, but I really feel the counter argument needs to be stated much more forcefully than this video.

[@soulfuzz368]

I think the argument is best made on a free scenic tour of a large forested area from the comfort of a helicopter.

[@John-c4r1o]

These Magic Money Tree (MMT) will simply end up wasting more money which will end up in the hands of the wealthy. The additional taxes and constraints will simply inhibit the most productive. This MMT like Universal Basic Income is simply communism repackaged, call it communism lite which is the prelude to communism total.

[@cloakbackground8641]

I don't exactly mind the MMT types. They seem to have a pretty clear-eyed understanding of fiat economics that cuts through the accounting used to obfuscate everything. It's the "and that's a good thing" part that I disagree with.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

It is good that "the sky is falling DEBT" and "hyperinflation" talk was bollocks

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World You don't need hyper inflation for inflation to still be a bad thing.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@willnitschkeI don't register inflation at all. If you feel 3% is bad, then just earn 4% more this year. That shoud be easy for such a business oracle following AnCap

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World According to Shadow Stats, which measures consumer inflation using metrics from the 80's and 90's inflation is running at 12%. Is that bad enough for you? Or is no level of inflation bad, 'cause you feel it isn't?

[@CPubi]

wow some of the platitudes in those clips are real evil, insane stuff

[@Phl3xable]

The issue with MMT economists is that every single one of their accounting tautologies applies to private companies as well. So, you can't use these tautologies to justify government spending without also justifying private spending. Then, they all lead to the same fundamental question - who can spend money and allocate resources better, the government or the private sector? I would say, given the abundance of economic information in a market economy, and the total lack of economic information in a government-run economy, the answer is the private sector.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

It doesn't apply to private companies because when Ben Bernanke needs a billion dollars he just types them in; while if Microsoft wants a billion dollars it has to compete for the existing ones.

[@Phl3xable]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World That's completely irrelevant to what I said. The accounting tautologies I'm referring to include that public sector debt = private sector savings.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@Phl3xableYeah but the point of people like Kelton is that the government has no solvency problem. And your rebuttal is: "Oh yeah? In that case Intel has no solvency problem!" which is patently false.

[@Phl3xable]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World No no... I'm not disagreeing with her assertion that the government can't go insolvent. I agree with that. What I'm disagreeing with is her implication the government SHOULD spend a ton of money.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@Phl3xableYeah I guess an underrated part of MMT is the prescription that Lowering Taxes would do the same job of leaving more dollars in the economy.

[@charlesmain9938]

Murphy re my book: "We make it real easy for you to get it without having to pay for it" Awesome. What could be more appealing? MMT works!!

[@willnitschke]

Well it works for the ultra rich, certainly. Because the ultra rich own assets, and assets will rise as inflation rises. The poor and those with fewer assets, get smashed by MMT type policies, of course.

[@charlesmain9938]

@@willnitschke Are you addressing my comment or just deflecting an attempt at a humorous jab (often a mistake in economics).

[@willnitschke]

@@charlesmain9938 Did me pointing out a simple fact hurt your feelings darling?

[@charlesmain9938]

@@willnitschke ?

[@billmelater6470]

The issue with arguing against MMT people is that their goal isn't to actually have a rational position. Its like arguing against Socialists. They've started with what they want and use circular logic to keep it.

[@TheDuckofDoom.]

Pretty much. But we still have the problem of preventing those mind viruses from spreading. So either making the circular logic obvious to the broader audience or offering an easy to understand alternative.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

No it's just that you don't get it. I'm an Austrian but I know MMT is true

[@billmelater6470]

@@TheDuckofDoom. For sure. It would be more accurate to say that I'm addressing the fact that you can't have a normal debate with someone who thinks like that or you'll be talking at cross purposes.

[@billmelater6470]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World What exactly do I not get?

[@TheDuckofDoom.]

@@billmelater6470 I think it's sarcasm based partly on the username.

[@Harpua1971]

Our politicians embraced MMT decades ago.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

Well, people did whine about the debt 15 years ago, and now the debt is much much larger and nothing happened.

[@Harpua1971]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World "Nothing happened" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that statement.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@Harpua1971So going forward, do you see it possible that public debt could reach $70 trillion? I do see it. And because nothing happens, we explain that it is because Mosler is right about it being the Savings Clock.

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World What do you mean by "nothing happened" given that a lot of bad things have happened, and are happening. Do you mean by "not happened" that the zombie apocalypse hasn't happened yet?

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@willnitschkeThere was a mood back in early 2009 when annual deficits starting reaching $1T, that this was impossible or unsustainable. Well that was a generation ago and I'm sure deficits are $2T now, and the sky hasn't fallen

[@nustada]

Any debt I am expected to pay, that I did not occur, is still fraud and theft.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

MMT explains that public debt is your asset

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World Remember when the government pissed all that money away on Solyndra, which then collapsed and is now worth nothing.... THAT's the MMT definition of "our asset." 🤣😂😅

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@willnitschkeWell, if you received $100,000 from the Ministry of Solyndra, that is very real money in your purse

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World But that's money gone, champ. Hence it's not an asset. Expenditures are not automatically assets.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@willnitschkeWhen the government spends, it does so by crediting bank accounts. So someone has the dollars. They will now stay out there FOREVER until someone pays taxes with them

[@garrettpatten6312]

If the treasury is paid back by the tax......So you loan money to the govt only to get paid back by your own taxes......

[@kylewatson5133]

Correct, but since a small margin of all money that moves through the system is taken as a processing fee by politicians they have an incentive that you pay yourself back at a small loss to you but a gain to them.

[@curtissnow9546]

What a nice way to thank you for loaning them too much money! Thank you so much to all irs agents out there, you are the real heros!

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

No, your taxes are destroyed. Fresh money is printed for each spending

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World No it's not. Your taxes are transferred into the TGA and hence 'recycled'.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@willnitschkeSo how did they end up spending more than they have

[@GreyMan1793]

What’s stopping us from making a movie of our own to sway the public. “What went wrong in 1971” or something like that.

[@Rob-fx2dw]

According to tricky dickie Nixon's statement at the time it was "temporary". That's now become the biggest 'temporary' in the universe.

[@Pau11Wa11]

The Mises Institute is remaking a documentary about the Fed to make it more current. I’m sure they’ll mention Nixon’s early 1970s antics in it, just like they did in the original “Money, Banking, and the Federal Reserve.”

[@carusorobi7356]

It already exists. Any summary of Neoliberalsm (1970ish - 2008 ish) covers it. It cratered. MMT was unknowingly used to bail out the banks, by a republican fed. As Greenspan said - the markets dont work the way he thought they did. Middle class homeownership is now in the hands of the top. It should trickle down any day now.

[@willnitschke]

@@carusorobi7356 The government wouldn't need to bail out banks if it's policies didn't create the crisis in the first place. Remember, banks are quasi-government anyway.

[@carusorobi7356]

@willnitschke. I agree. Since 1971 ish, we have been operating on Neoliberalism principles, that led to wiping out the middle class, deregulation of the banks, and bad bank loans as sub prime mortgages (lessening working income, Bush push for home ownership) that broke the global financial system, signifying the death of Neoliberalism. Something new is happening now. Neoliberalism thinking is dying. For Me, MMT is the best explanation - it happens to to argue that the Neoliberalsim way of thinking is sub optimal. The government operating under Neoliberalsim economic thought ultimately allowed things to run amuck, resulting in bailing out the free market banks. You might enjoy videos (there are several) on the book " The death of Neoliberalsim". Like it or not, MMT is becoming the new economic paradigm the government operates by. I Say this not to argue, but it is what they are doing - covid stimulus 1 and 2, chips act, Infrastructure spending, Inflation Reduction Act (solar). Opinion - Neoliberalism thinking and backing simply enforces a structure for trickle down economics, that does not trickle, and ultimately needs bailed out. Private profits, socialized risk - systematic transfer of wealth from the working class to the wealthy. Neoliberism thinking enforces this, MMT understanding allows us to break free of that potentially.

[@markteague8889]

1:06:00 During WWI, the Britsh were puzzled by how the German's artillery was so pinpoint accurate. It turned out that the Germans had written the position equations (basic Newtonian Mechanics applied to artillery projectiles) to incorporate air resistance. Incorporating air resistance over the projectile changes the differential equations from nice neat ones with easily arrived at symbolic solutions into messy ones which require numerical approximation techniques to solve. The Germans were utilizing the Runge-Kutta (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runge-Kutta_methods) to approximate the solutions to their ballistics tables having incorporated the effects of air resistance. Ironically, the paper on this technique was sitting in the Oxford (or maybe Cambridge) library. So, the British could have just as easily availed themselves of the advantage had they been a little more erudite in their application of tactical strategy.

[@andrews5320]

Money is a standard means of exchange. If MMT were theoretically correct then Zimbabwe would be an economic power house, right? I think that government regulations are also a means for the government to affect money without direct taxation.

[@JGS2295]

You do realise that MMT's entire thing is that *real resources* are what matters, right? As in, MMT explicitly and consistently emphasises that you can't just print a gazillion dollars and living prosperity. The difference (one of many) between MMT and orthodox neo-classical or New Keynsian macro is that MMT recognises the nature of the currency issuer having a unique standing vis a vis its currency compared to currency users and that this relationship to and nature of money allows better fiscal policy to be formulated that works WITHIN those real resource constraints rather than arbitrary financial constraints (Paygo or fiscal rules, etc).

[@jetfaker6666]

I havent found the money to watch the documentary yet. Should I print it or dig it out of a gold mine?

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

Probably these clips towards the beginning. I'm actually not interested in checking it out because I'm deeply familiar with MMT and it has many Marxists in its fanbase

[@NGC-gu6dz]

Misallocation of resources is great. Government giving people money cuz they say the right political nostroms is fantastic. Love is love.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

It could be that there aren't enough dollars in the system, compared to the tax amount proscribed

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World And how do you determine "enough" ?

[@bimsherwood7006]

This right here is an excellent take. Previous MMT arguments I heard seemed to be focussing on the tautologies, but this one focusses on the non-sequiturs.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

And we are supposed to believe that you already knew all these facts. Such as that Public Debt is a myth and could never be 0 even in principle

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@willnitschkeBut do you underdstand that the Public Debt equals the number of dollars in the world. So if debt was $0 you would have $0

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World Do you understand that not all debt is bad but wasteful and unproductive debt is bad? Apparently not.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@willnitschkeIn MMT all debt has the other side of the equation (the asset holder), even foolishly taken on debt

[@libertycoffeehouse3944]

Real wealth is when citizens can own more commodities and services and capital output increases.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

Sure. MMT deals basically with nominal dollar amounts only.

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World So it doesn't address what's actually important?

[@sdrowlette]

That clip at 1:17:33 where they point a gun at people is WILD! 😂

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

Mosler does not necessarily glorify violence, he just says it's the way of history and government

[@sdrowlette]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World Right, it simply and explicitly illustrates how evil the state is.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@sdrowletteDo you know Peter Schiff's position, he says: "I want the state weak, but not nonexistent. Because in such a vacuum of anarchy, some commie could seize power."

[@crimony3054]

And it makes no sense either. If they want taxes paid in bananas, then we could all hold Bitcoins, or gold bars, or dollars, and then, on tax day, buy bananas and pay our taxes. Demanding taxes be paid in a particular currency does nothing to make that currency legitimate... unless there are no alternatives (and, as we know, alternatives abound).

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@crimony3054 What makes it a boon for the issuer is that it must be HIS currency. So taxes must be payable in USD only, by design. That is why every "Bitcoin can now pay taxes!" story from the newspaper is false. Namely it's always a mere conversion service from BTC to USD

[@kylewatson5133]

What we could do, is rename our liabilities as assets and then all of the sudden the debt clock becomes a savings clock.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

They are the same thing, the government owes but us private individuals have that asset. For example your $100 is your asset but it was deficit-spent by the government. The proof that they have not collected your $100 in taxes is the very fact that the $100 is in your hands.

[@arofhoof]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World "They are the same thing," Nobody ever said that and it doesnt solve debt problem somehow.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@arofhoofThat is Mosler's contribution, getting you to recognize that the debt clock is the savings clock. And now the debt problem is solved, because there can be no "savings problem."

[@alexsch2514]

There is no renaming. How do you not understand basic principles of macroeconomics?

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@alexsch2514OP was being sarcastic, but actually MMT explains that the government's debt is the citizens' dollar savings.

[@libertycoffeehouse3944]

Government spending crowds out the private sector. A contractor who makes missiles will have more money to give to shareholders, employees and revenue for the company but this spending without an increase in goods and services that consumers want results in the purchasing power going down for the commodities and services that people want. This causes consumers to spend less and a contraction in the free market. It results in an externality. Other countries may not want to buy our Treasuries. If we don't manufacture goods, foreign exporters may decide not to sell or trade with us. If we look at another accounting ledger (taxpayers vs corporate recepients of the money) we would see a decrease in wealth for the taxpayer while the recipients of the money may depend on that money. They will become less productive over time. The movie depends on the viewer believing that America has a free market. Today, we have a command economy. If MMT is correct why are we getting poorer as the free market disappears?

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

The government does aim to kick some people out of private sector, in order to get resources for the government. But once that's been achieved, usually an unwanted overshoot happens and they expel too many people. So that is why Warren Mosler proposes either more moneyprinting or less taxation to fix this overshoot

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World if the government wants aluminum to build missiles, lots of missiles, because there is a limited supply of aluminum, the cost of aluminum will rise. Private sector projects may not then happen, because they cannot compete for those commodities. This is not difficult to understand. And the government doing more of the same is not going to fix anything. It's going to make the situation worse. You seem to go to extraordinary lengths not to understand basic economic concepts...

[@rsimpson69]

How about if I give someone an IOU for $100 to cut my grass, then settle with him for $10 cash. How long before he stops taking my IOU?

[@rsimpson69]

Then the govt taxes $9 of his $10

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

And where is the U.S. government promising $100 and then delivering $10 upon maturation

[@rsimpson69]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World that was the ratio given, spend 100 and tax 90 back, that I was commenting on. I guess I could have been clearer about the time and point I was responding to

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@rsimpson69Yeah I did not watch the docu. An important MMT point is that tax money is burnt and not recycled back

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World Tax money is deposited into the TGA. It doesn't disappear. Sure, Mosler claims this, but just because he says it, it doesn't make it true. It sounds like you're a member of a cult, sorry.

[@albionicamerican8806]

I did some back of the envelope math earlier today. There are about 240 thousand metric tons of refined gold in the world. (One metric ton = 1000 kg.) Divide that figure by the world's population of 8 billion, and that means the world's per capita gold supply is about 30 grams, which is approximately 1 ounce of gold per person. And because gold is a scarce material commodity, effectively gold ownership is a zero-sum game: If you have 100 ounces of gold stashed away, that means 99 other people have no gold - *_ZERO!_* And in our world now, some individuals & institutions are already hoarding thousands of metric tons of that metal to keep it out of circulation. So how is gold supposed to work as "real money," again? In reality, the hundreds of millions of Americans who don't have enough dollars to pay their bills would wind up not having enough gold to pay those bills.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

Easy, price goes up. At $3 million an ounce, would there still be these problems you mention

[@cloakbackground8641]

Owning dollars is also a zero sum game unless you're the government. Well, I guess bankers can turn $1 into $2, but that has special risks. Also, supply and demand works for money too: less gold in circulation means each ounce can buy more goods; more dollars in circulation means each dollar can buy less goods. What I'm asking is, what about dollars fixes the problems you have with gold?

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World *Easy, price goes up. At $3 million an ounce, would there still be these problems you mention* And how does one get to 3 million an ounce in practice?

[@willnitschke]

@@cloakbackground8641 The "gold fix" is that gold production increases total gold reserves by about 2% annually. GDP grows 2% annually. So it would act as a break on the current multi-decade period of fiscal recklessness. That would be the hope, anyway.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@willnitschkeI'm refuting those that claim there is too little gold for a gold standard. In fact you could digitize gold, even at many more decimals than satoshis. And then you can pay for everything in gold-backed electronic money

[@rutessian]

When she says that the government's deficit is the private sector's surplus all I hear is "this is where inflation come from". That extra money circulating isn't matched by extra resources, goods and services so you end up with higher prices.

[@travisthompson1679]

Exactly. This sent me into a rage when she did that. You have to be profoundly stupid or profoundly evil to say what she said. Trying to sell taking our resources as a good thing.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@travisthompson1679How are they taking your resources

[@travisthompson1679]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World Are you new here? Did you not watch the video? Did you not read the original comment? They commit fraud by printing money and spend it on resources before the money becomes debased leaving fewer for the private sector. Not to mention direct taxation. We all have less than we otherwise would if they didn't exist.

[@adamallen1750]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World They are taking resources from everyone, just like a counterfeiter.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@adamallen1750 There's real tax and nominal tax. Those of us who don't work for the government are not giving up any real resources

[@redbigapplefloppa302]

Great episode! Very engaging and i think you're absolutely right about how to strategically deal with the mmt in terms of discussion.

[@joepaluka9031]

If you have not read Bobs book i urge you to do so. Its very good

[@SS-qk8oc]

I’m still mad at how low information this analysis is. And I know Murphy isn’t dumb…. “The gold stater (Egyptian: nfr-nb, "Nefer-nub", meaning "fine gold") was the first coin ever minted in ancient Egypt, around 360 BC during the reign of pharaoh Teos of the LAST NATIVE dynasty in order to pay salaries of Greek mercenaries who were at his service” Before that they had no gold based money…

[@willnitschke]

So according to MMT "theory" if I loan $1000 to my alcoholic friend, and spends the money on booze, I now have a debt and my friend's hang-over is $1000 in "savings". So it all balances out.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

A hangover is not thought of as wealth but an account full of USD is

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World Then you're saying MMT is nonsensical?

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@willnitschke No, MMT is correct in their statement that U.S. deficits are your nominal savings

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World No they're not. Because MMT's are so confused that they can't distinguish between assets and expenses (bookkeeping 101) -- which just means they are not worth taking seriously. Unless you can explain why that's not the case, which you don't appear to be able to.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@willnitschkeIsn't it obvious that if I have 5000 dollars on my MasterCard Debit, I may consider that my asset. So that part is proven. Now why is that same 5000 the government's debt. Simply because they never taxed it (the money is with me not them) but they spent it (the proof is that every dollar bill is littered with governmental inscriptions)

[@TheCruxy]

I've never heard a person express MMT then say "so we can now fund [insert right wing mega project here]"

[@garrettpatten6312]

It is inetersting that direct taxation & spending doesn't create as much price distortion, like oh the price of steel is going up because the govt is buying it all up and driving down demand via taxation. Whereas with printing everything goes up in price. So who knows is the price of steel high because the govt is using all the steel or is it high because gas food and rents are going up.

[@zastorlexa9800]

Really helpful video. Thank you for posting.

[@travisthompson1679]

How do you turn "ctrl + p" into a documentary?

[@georgerogers1166]

At least Credit expansion has a deflationary end game. Printing cash has a hyperinflationary end game.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

It's all the same, you people need to forget this differentiation between cash and credit. All of it is fungible dollars

[@georgerogers1166]

Until they aren't.

[@willnitschke]

Credit expansion need not end is deflation, as credit is naturally limited by your collateral. Governments have no such constraints, hence why MMT style policies have been so recently catastrophic.

[@heteroerectus]

I heard Zimbabwe and Argentina are huge fans of MMT. No issues with it at all.

[@willnitschke]

@@heteroerectus Interesting MMT talking point is if inflation spirals out of control just raise taxes... I mean if someone can no longer afford to buy food, just tax a greater portion of their income. What's not to like?

[@KennyCz87]

There is no such thing as a free lunch.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

But there is such a thing as printing insufficient money to satisfy the tax bill + savings desire

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World That's it. Printing money creates savings. 🤣

[@philippmel4tube]

someone didn't get MMT 1. Government Deficits Aren’t Always Beneficial MMT Response: Government deficits should be evaluated in context. MMT agrees that not all deficits are inherently good; it depends on what the deficit is used for. If government spending creates productive infrastructure, improves education, or achieves full employment, those deficits lead to real economic benefits for the private sector. The key point in MMT is that the government, as the issuer of currency, has the financial flexibility to run deficits when needed to stimulate the economy and mobilize idle resources. 2. Printing Money Doesn’t Solve Everything MMT Response: MMT doesn’t argue for printing endless amounts of money without caution. MMT acknowledges the risks of inflation and specifically addresses how inflation should be managed through taxes and spending adjustments. The goal is to ensure that the amount of money spent matches the real productive capacity of the economy. If inflation occurs, MMT prescribes tools like raising taxes or cutting spending to bring inflation under control. The idea isn’t to print money recklessly, but to use the government’s financial power responsibly, considering real resource constraints. 3. Inflation as a Critical Issue MMT Response: MMT is highly aware of inflationary risks. The core of MMT isn’t “print and forget,” but rather a focus on using fiscal policy (spending and taxation) to ensure that inflation remains manageable. MMT argues that inflation only becomes a problem when demand for resources exceeds supply. As long as there are idle resources-such as unemployed workers or underutilized capital-the government can safely increase spending. Once those resources are fully utilized, further spending should be moderated or redirected to avoid overheating the economy. 4. Borrowing vs. Printing - The Jared Bernstein Example MMT Response: The confusion around why the government borrows is rooted in outdated economic thinking. From an MMT perspective, the government doesn’t need to borrow its own currency to fund spending-it can simply create more money. Issuing bonds isn’t necessary to "fund" the government; it’s a policy choice often used to manage interest rates or inflation. MMT advocates simplifying this process by bypassing unnecessary borrowing and focusing on directly funding essential programs. 5. MMT Fails to Address Real Resource Constraints MMT Response: MMT’s entire framework is built around resource constraints, not financial constraints. MMT explicitly focuses on using government spending to optimize real resources-labor, capital, technology-rather than obsessing over "finding the money." The question is never about whether the government can "afford" something in its own currency but whether there are enough real resources to implement a policy without driving up inflation. If resource constraints are hit, MMT advocates using fiscal tools like taxation or adjusting spending to ensure inflation doesn’t spiral out of control. 6. MMT’s Misunderstanding of Taxation MMT Response: MMT views taxation as crucial, but not for "funding" government spending. Taxes play a role in controlling inflation, redistributing wealth, and creating demand for the government’s currency. By taxing, the government reduces the private sector’s purchasing power, ensuring that excessive demand doesn’t drive up inflation. Taxes also prevent wealth concentration, which is important for maintaining a balanced economy. The real goal of taxation under MMT is to manage the economy’s productive capacity and ensure fairness-not to collect revenue for government spending, which isn’t necessary for a currency issuer. 7. Tautologies Don’t Justify Policy MMT Response: The accounting tautologies that MMT highlights are foundational to understanding how the economy functions. Government deficits create private sector surpluses, which is a crucial point because it shows that deficits are not inherently bad. Deficits represent financial injections into the economy. The critique that this doesn’t justify policy misses the point-MMT doesn’t advocate deficits for the sake of deficits. Deficits should be used strategically to achieve full employment and optimal economic performance. The tautologies simply make the case that we need to reframe our understanding of how deficits work, and policy follows based on real resource constraints, not fear of financial shortfalls. 8. Historical Misunderstanding of Money MMT Response: MMT acknowledges that historical systems like the gold standard existed, but it argues that these systems were abandoned for a reason. Today’s fiat money system is more flexible and better suited to modern economies. While commodity money like gold and silver had a place in history, MMT’s argument is that once societies moved beyond commodity-backed money, governments became the true issuers of currency. MMT contends that the state has always played a critical role in money, and the fiat system we use today reflects that power. What matters now is managing the money supply to meet real economic needs, not going back to outdated systems that constrain economic potential. 9. Ignoring the Economic Costs of Government Spending MMT Response: MMT doesn’t ignore the real resource costs of government spending; in fact, it emphasizes them. The critique here misunderstands MMT’s focus. MMT argues that government spending should be aimed at mobilizing underutilized resources, such as unemployed labor or idle factories. When the economy is operating below capacity, government spending can bring those resources into use without causing inflation. When the economy is at full capacity, MMT acknowledges that further spending must be carefully managed to avoid inflationary pressures. The point is that MMT provides a framework for understanding when and how to spend based on the real economy, not arbitrary budget constraints. 10. Coercion as a Foundation of MMT MMT Response: MMT’s view of taxation and government currency issuance isn’t about coercion-it’s about creating demand for the currency. The state requires taxes to be paid in its currency, which ensures that people will need to earn that currency to meet their tax obligations. This creates a stable demand for the currency, allowing the government to spend in the economy. While some critics view this as coercive, MMT argues that it’s simply how modern monetary systems work. It’s not about control; it’s about ensuring that the currency retains value and that the government can manage the economy effectively for the public good. In summary, from an MMT perspective, the critiques often misunderstand or oversimplify MMT’s arguments. MMT is about managing real resources to achieve full employment and price stability, not about reckless money printing. It provides a comprehensive framework for understanding how government spending, taxation, and inflation interact in a modern fiat economy.

[@willnitschke]

The issue isn't that MMT "doesn't have a response". It's that the responses are so mindbogglingly idiotic, they are beyond a joke. I could make fun of all these nonsense points but let me use your point (3) as an example. "Print less money if inflation goes up". Money printing is inflation. You've just made MMT irrelevant. Even worse, is the 'tax more' if inflation goes up. In other words, inflation is smashing the economy and crippling the working class. We'll just tax them so they can't afford to buy anything. That would definitely fix the inflation/money printing problem, because everyone would then be dead. Realistically, is the political class going to fight inflation by taxing everyone more to crush demand? And wouldn't crushing demand cause another Great Depression? Of course it would. In summary, MMT is nonsensical ideology. It pretends to explain the monetary system, but explains nothing at all. It pretends the government is good at capital allocation, when in advanced economics we all know it's catastrophically bad at doing that. It then goes on to pretend it has workarounds for its nonsense, that are all completely unrealistic and impractical to implement.

[@splynch1980]

MMT - Modern Marxist Theory

[@G_v._Losinj2_ImportantPlaylist]

Yep. Added-Step Awthartarizm by a 125+year treeznez inzergnzy.

[@G_v._Losinj2_ImportantPlaylist]

Hamilton, Clay, Lincoln The M$$$y Trust-1890s, 1907 Progressivism-ThFR/IncoomTxx Funding WWs & Coomnizm Keynesian NeoIib/con & GIobIsm MMT

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

It's a neutral description but yes many Marxists flock to it to get free stuff. But it's possible to use MMT for good (for greed)

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World It's possible 'in theory' (much like Marxism) but not in practice. Social systems that have misaligned incentive schemes don't work.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@willnitschkeThere's still enough capitalism in the U.S. for it to chug along

[@rogermenendez4052]

All centralized economies have to deploy by coercion. There's no "free" in socialism.

[@AtaraxiaaixaratA]

So many mouth breathers in one documentary? How did the universe keep from collapsing?

[@frederickmorris2216]

Even the youngest of children can understand that pretending that something has value and exchanging that pretence of value for something that has intrinsic value is very simply a fraud...

[@willnitschke]

Clearly it had value in the eyes of the beholder, as that person would not have made the trade with you. Austrians call this subjective value.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

Other than intrinsic there is also redemption value. An example I use is a can of Pepsi, and a coupon entitling you to a can of Pepsi

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@willnitschkeYes but that should not be confused with outright scams such as Nigerian Prince emails and Bitcoin

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World Nobody is confusing a USD with a Nigerian Prince asking to send you a million dollars after you hand over your banking details. Bitcoin is not a "scam" as it's redeemable in US dollars. It is, however, a highly volatile speculative asset.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@willnitschkeOK So you understand that Nigerian Prince is a scam, but you're having trouble seeing the similarity with Bitcoin. The victim is asked to send $66,000 to the self styled Nigerian Prince, on the verbal promise of $2,000,000 later on.

[@Guti3737]

The only thing I hate about this podcast is how long he takes to make a point. Let's get to it.

[@G_v._Losinj2_ImportantPlaylist]

Eh, this one needed to be detailed.

[@G_v._Losinj2_ImportantPlaylist]

This is the estmt’s attempt at modernizing their scheme. We need to know how to counter it-defeat-in-detail, b/c it was a polished attempt.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

Bob's educated enough but doesn't want to focus on the actual points. I emailed with him once a few years back and he gave up after like 3 replies. Now he's still roaming in the dark

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World I'm sorry to break it to you, but he worked out after a few exchanges that he was dealing with a time wasting idiot. 😉

[@zorfaV-ziqtys-7nofda]

Money is double spent. There are both deposits (money stock, which is money,) Then there are bond securities (which are sold and bought all the time. Which is it? Does the money in a bank account have money like a Bitcoin or do the owners of the bond securities own the money? It’s being traded by both. If I own something and lend it then I can’t sell what I don’t have because I don’t have it the person I lent it to does.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

OK it's a good question though you injected Bitcoin there which is just silly because Bitcoin is a childish scam. Anyway you should think of Bonds as simple bank accounts. It's a dollar deposit

[@88_AC]

You say many times how well made this doc is. Who produced it and how were they paid?

[@Jalreal]

Warren Mosler makes supercars in his spare time. He's the progenitor of MMT, I would have to assume he funded a good portion.

[@G_v._Losinj2_ImportantPlaylist]

1:15:00 Also-The situation described; Ben FrankIin said the prohibition of CS truIy caused the AmerRev. "The Colonies would gladly have borne the little tax on tea and other matters had it not been that England took away from the Colonies their money, which created unemployment and dissatisfaction."

[@garrettpatten6312]

She acts like only american citizens own govt debt....

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

It's an asset for the foreigner too then. Same as you can own Brunei Ringgit and would be happy about it

[@rsimpson69]

I expect the motivation for this is to run the economy even more on the edge than we already are, with even less margin for error. So what happens then in case of war or natural emergency, if there's no excess left to draw upon?

[@CarrotCakeMake]

If you counterfeit 100 dollars, then buy 100 dollars of meat from a store, then the store has a surplus of 100 dollars. It's so easy.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

But ipso facto the government's dollar is real

[@heteroerectus]

No because only the government has the wisdom to print its way out of a bad situation

[@arofhoof]

I cannot the link of the critic of David Greager?

[@johbowfor]

MMT - Magic Money Theory

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

*fact

[@willnitschke]

More Money Today.

[@metricdeep8856]

If the government wants you to have an option on their actions....they will give you one.

[@napper422]

Cocaine for hunter Biden 😂😂😂!! Hands down my favorite part.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

Yeah he ratted himself out as a Trumptard

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World So if you deal in facts, you're "Trumptard". I think you outed yourself as a Leftard. 🤣

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@willnitschkeI don't follow left-leaning parties like the Communist Party of Russia of which your boss Putin was member for a lifetime

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World Of course, because to a warmongering Neo-liberal Leftard, that was never Real Socialism/Communism (tm), right?

[@GlennBru-gt6ck]

Murphy's arguments, including the Rothbard quote at 25:20, would be accurate if we still were on a gold standard. We are not any more. So Murphy moves on to political arguments, arguing that the government should not funds the things that it does. These are not monetary issues, they are political. Murphy sounds like a guy that is so wedded to Austrian economics and its free market philosophy that when the MMT'ers come along and correctly describe government's role in a modern fiat monetary system, he is frustrated and is seeking to somehow discredit it. But he does understand it. I enjoy watching the MMT critics, but I am not persuaded by them.

[@willnitschke]

Actual economists explaining why the self published nonsense of cranks is incoherent gibberish, has nothing to do with the "gold standard".

[@angelab1023]

This poor guy! Must be tough admitting he was wrong! Someone hand him a tissue! MMT has won the money argument!

[@willnitschke]

I do wonder though, why every MMTer who posts a comment on utube, always comes across as sounding like a complete imbecile. It's not proof of anything, but it's a red flag this is ideology.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

Communism is still wrong, hoss.

[@angelab1023]

MMT is not a value system. It’s a descriptive. I bet, everything that helps people, communities and planet is communism to you?​@@Richest_Person_in_the_World

[@willnitschke]

@@angelab1023 Yes MMT is 'descriptive'. But the problem is it's not descriptive of anything in the real world.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

⁠@@angelab1023Yes, ownership of capital by the Commune is communism. You have FAILED to get rich by imposing taxes on those better than you 🤭

[@zorrowcg]

I am 100% against MMT, but if this is the best defense of the market economy you are capable of giving, then we are doomed. Pathetic.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

He doesn't seem to put any effort into comprehending MMT. Maybe he dislikes Mosler personally so he can't bring himself to

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World Unfortunately unlike you, he understands it too well.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@willnitschkeNot at all, he still uses the Liquor Store Analogy from 2012

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World Yeah become economics is totally different from what it was like in 2012. 😂

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@willnitschkeHe had a decade to understand that the government is Unlike a household

[@Pathippie]

In Ms. Kelton's TED talk she says, "countries like the US and UK...." Did God bestow a divine right on Anglo Saxons to print as much money as they want? Can Asians print at will?

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

They can

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World His point flew over the top of your head, as usual.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@willnitschkeHow's your Ph.D. going? Oh right, you are not even a candidate 🤭

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World So if you're a billionaire why are you trying to get one of those Nigerian economics certificates? Oh right, you're not a billionaire and you're not a PhD, you're a little wanker bragging on the intertubes. 😅

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@willnitschkeI'm trying to also be educated and not merely rich. Because some people have money and are uneducated which is kinda suboptimal

[@KarlFreeman-fe1nd]

Ok I get it. It is a justification on whether government should be able to redistribute private money. What I don't understand is isn't this just raising taxes with extra steps?

[@willnitschke]

Yes, but MMT is a flat tax, so most of the tax is going to come from the bottom 50%. Yet Leftists celebrate it... proof positive they are useful idiots of the elites.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

No it's the opposite: in tax, you donate money to the government, while in government spending they give dollars to you

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World No, it's a tax because by creating more dollars, there are more dollars competing for goods and services, hence price levels go up. Just another form of taxation. Even worse, the dollars are not likely to be given to "me" but to the governments friends or even transferred overseas. This is very basic stuff. You seem rather dim.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@willnitschkeYou're using it in a metaphorical sense, but the literal meaning of the word tax is to take your dollars. While moneyprinting is the very opposite direction

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World You don't fix your stupid by declaring that a correct argument is "invalid" because you declare a word can only mean a certain thing. When you do that, you just make a fool of yourself. Again.

[@JGS2295]

Unless I misunderstand, your position is that MMT has the mechanics of government spending and taxation correct but you just have a political disagreement with politicians concerning how large the public share of the economic output is? Surely then, MMT's application to the economy can then be used by you to make your case that government mobilisation of real resources should be much lower? It just so happens that most people who understand MMT's correct description of the monetary system as it is today tend to believe that there are large areas of society that are best left to public provision and private capital allocating resources via the profit motive would not be appropriate or produce desirible results.

[@willnitschke]

You clearly misunderstood, then.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

Yeah that is a good point at the end about L. Randall Wray claiming that all money historically was debt money and you cite 19th century gold dollar. I wish he responded to that, he's also a Ph.D. in economics

[@SS-qk8oc]

I used to agree with you, but now believe that gold and silver, while beautiful and useful, make poor currencies.

[@willnitschke]

Your beliefs and feelings don't matter.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

Why is that

[@Jalreal]

Global trade with every country using hard money would most likely lead to mercantilist economic doctrine again, no? Where every country aims to have a trade surplus?

[@willnitschke]

@@Jalreal There is no argument here, just an assertion... China has a trade surplus, yet the standard of living of the Chinese citizen is much lower than that of a US citizen. Why do you think that is? 😉

[@TheChaosWatcher]

Us treasuries are literally a savings account at the fed it is in itself a asset and thats what the "debt" is in the form of and also why MMT is the description of a floating fiat currency that has little to no outside currency debt places like russia had outsude xurrrnxy debt bonds due to borrowing usd after the fall of the soviet union which operated on the gold standard which put its exchange rate at the price of gold after they went off the gold standard and floated the currency they were able to spend to rebuild their country.

[@sharann3482]

58:50 before that we can see a stagnation in wages, causing a reduction in demand, causing decreased interest rates, increasing private household debt spending, causing the pump in the market which then later crashed

[@willnitschke]

That's not how it works. For example, you can't have a "reduction in demand" while GDP grows at the same time. 🤣

[@sharann3482]

@@willnitschke you have decreased private spending out of income alone, while have increased deficit spending

[@willnitschke]

@@sharann3482 Your claim is still wrong. Even where there is increased government spending, someone in the real economy is on the other side of that transaction. You claimed there was a reduction in demand, but that doesn't happen when GDP is positive. Not hard to grasp, is it?

[@testboga5991]

I'm not a proponent of mmt because I don't fully understand it, however, I find you don't do it justice. Your video seems mostly motivated by a wish to attack them, not by a wish to find truth. Some of their core tenets appear very reasonable. The real point where the rubber would meet the road is instead the question, of how one would identify slack, how much should be invested in this case and how to avoid overspending, because once money starts flowing, everybody wants their supply to continue.

[@willnitschke]

So basically actual economists should not critique the nonsense of self published cranks even though you admit you don't understand any of it?

[@Bullypulpit]

Kelton, Mosler et al are 100% correct... Right up to the point they claim we can put all the unemployed bums to work building semiconductors and solar panels!

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

Mosler says that the job guarantee program would be separate from the green new deal. I personally don't care about this aspect of MMT because IDGAF about the working poor

[@philipvecchio3292]

🌈 Bob Murphy is the only Leprechaun who will tell you that there's no gold at the end of the MMT rainbow 🌈 🪙🪙🪙

[@bigqueue]

I get that when somebody buys the bonds of let's say ge, that they're getting an asset. But let's not forget that they were giving basically exchanging an asset in the form of cash for those GE bonds. Those GE bonds were not suddenly an increased asset to those people, they were literally just a trade of one asset for another in exchange for an income stream. The GE Bond itself was not a new asset or a net gained asset, the only thing that could be that is the income stream off of that bond. That GE Bond was traded for another asset called Cash. By putting out the bond, GE did not create that value, GE simply traded a bond for the value that that person came to them with in cash. And that cash came to existence through the work that that person put into the world for which they were paid. So that GE Bond basically came from effort and work have a productive nature. In fact those GE bonds were only purchased by excess savings that those people working put aside.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

Look at government bonds. And think of them as simple bank accounts which have a Time Deposit aspect.

[@cryptoemcee]

Thanks, Bob.

[@twhelostl61]

The State budgets are big time in the red. Sales taxes on most items ex food are 7.5% in lots of places. Federal tax is vaporised, simply a pressure valve to contain inflation.

[@Rob-fx2dw]

What "pressure valve" ? Can you explain the mechanism.

[@chrisk8978]

MMT is simply a description of how our monetary system ACTUALLY works. Most people still don’t get it or refuse to acknowledge the truth. I have yet to hear or read a single critic refute any of it-and, yes, I’ve literally read a 400 page book of criticisms. Certainly, many policy proposals that flow from it are questionable. But policy proposals are not the same as the MMT itself. But post 1971, the US dollar exists by fiat and is created out of thin air. The implications of this are clearly still not fully understood by the traditional economic schools. Until this happens, productive discussions are not possible.

[@willnitschke]

Nonsense, it's a idiotic theology. It explains nothing, and is based on obvious confusions and misunderstandings of the monetary system. It's historical claims are historically wrong and simple refutations are merely ignored by the MMT crowd.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@willnitschkeIt explains the public debt for instance. Lotta fools screamed back in 2008 that the sky was falling due to public debt

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World No Dumbest_Person_In_The_World, it doesn't explain anything. There is no magic credit card which you never have to pay back, even if delusional idiots desperately believe in magic. And the 2008 financial crisis was about liquidity in the banking sector, NOT public debt. Go away, fool.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@willnitschkeWhen the 2008 problem was ultimately fixed via deficit spending, you had a hysteric attack saying this would break the economy because a $1 trillion deficit was unsustainable. In fact the world is humming along fine 16 years later, which proves I'm correct and you are a New Zealand sheep herder

[@elliotthovanetz1945]

Stephanie Kelton is one of the scariest people influencing government policies today.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

Not really. I find her quite obtuse

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World You mean in her writings (sort of like Post-modernist gibberish, eh?) but not in her sloganeering.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@willnitschkeI just think she's dumb, her doctorate notwithstanding. Mosler is bright in contrast

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World Your feelings don't matter, though. You either have arguments, which hopefully are good, or you're saying nothing.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@willnitschkeThe argument is that you couldn't pay your taxes if those dollars had not been first issued by the U.S.

[@Blendletan]

David Graeber is a Chomsky-style "anarchist". These people make me very sad

[@jeffreyscott4997]

It seems to me, MMT's fundamental error is a confusion between having currency, and having value. From the start, the government spends 100 and taxes 90, and the private sector is up 10. 10 what? Dollars. Not 10 dollars worth of wealth, but mearly 10 units of currency.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

It's not a mistake, MMT's job is to describe the nominal dollar system. Actually it was your mistake (the Austrians) to equate the two. So when Mosler says: "We can print dollars" your supposed rebuttal is: "That is not true, we cannot print real wealth."

[@jeffreyscott4997]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World If that is true, then the observation that we can print dollars, is worseless. Economic actors don't want money, they want goods/wealth. So track the weath, don't track the money (except as needed to track the wealth).

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@jeffreyscott4997 By refusing to track dollars, you ended up with false observations such as: "We won't be able to find dollars to pay interest on public debt"

[@jeffreyscott4997]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World Nobody is worried that we won't be able to find dollars to pay the interest on the public debt. They are worried that we won't be able to get ahold of resources to distribute as promised.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@jeffreyscott4997 That is not true, plenty of people have literally said: "Where is the government gonna get that money," "They'll have to raise taxes," "We must borrow from China."

[@TheChaosWatcher]

6 trill is owned by the fed gov and 2 trill is collectively owned by the world 38 trill is the collective us treasuries not redeemed since 1941-2024

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

35 trillion is the total debt clock and it includes all cash and bank accounts worldwide

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World No it doesn't. 🤣 Seriously, you literally pull nonsense out of your arse, don't you. 😅

[@tshkrel]

Kelton as an Intelligence Agent

[@timothycampbell9061]

Do one that is on “what if the government sold stock in the government?” Would only shareholders vote? Would the deepstate own most? Would we have constrained government?

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

There is no such thing as Deep State, you fell for Trump's BS

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World It's a bit like believing debt doesn't matter. If you don't believe, it's not real. Behold, the two year old in action. 😉

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@willnitschkeThe term Deep State was basically started by Russia in 2016 as a pejorative for "democratic institutions."

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World No it wasn't. Deep State describes the politicization of public institutions, such as the Department of Justice, the FBI. This is then weaponised against political opponents. This has very obviously been happening in the US, your confusion and hurt feelings aside. Nice conspiracy theory, though. 😉

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@willnitschkeBasically Putin put his own candidate in power in 2016. But he was horrified to discover that wasn't enough. U.S. institutions still maintained democracy. And hence, Putler started to rave on about a "deep state" (meaning simply, institutions of an open society)

[@TheChaosWatcher]

Unless its owned by the banks and sold for over night

[@antebellum1]

Thank you so much for this. The MMTers confuse me for how nonsensical their word games are. I don't understand why the first statement you make, that if you print infinite money you will have infinite inflation, isn't accepted by them as a counterargument. They seem to assume that money is just something that exists and will always exist. The possibility that a money can lose so much value that people will eventually return to barter as bread, shoes, and other objects become more reliable media of exchange than notes with the word "money" printed on them simply can;t happen in their world. That is exactly what happened in Germany after World War One. Also, thank you for the free Rothbard books. I am getting one for my grandpa and making a donation to the Mises Institute. You guys do so much more with so little resources compared to other political organizations. 100,000 books for free? That is just amazing!

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

We dispute that inflation is something that can "take on a life of its own"

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World Nobody cares about your opinion, and you're not a MMTer either. You're a child who has listened to a couple podcasts about MMT and afterwards confused yourself. 😉

[@antebellum1]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World I did not say that inflation "takes on a life of its own." The government gives inflation life by printing money. Do you agree that there is a relationship between the amount of money the government creates and the rate of inflation? Anything which affects the supply/demand of money can cause inflation/deflation, and one of those things (which is by far the most dominant today) is government creating money.

[@willnitschke]

@@antebellum1 "Richest" doesn't agree on any observable realities if they contradict his ideology. The kid lives in some alternate planet Earth.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@willnitschkeI'm a Ph.D. student of economics which is farther than Mosler's education. So yes I'm a real MMTer.

[@jccusell]

"Why would you want to work? What would motivate you to obtain money?.... Taxes!" Is literally what these people, The Anointed Ones, proclaim. Let that sink in.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

They may not be consicous of it, but economics has always worked first and been studied later.

[@pandafox12]

Just imagine if instead of holding treasuries, that capital was being used to fund productive private sector activity. Insane crowding out

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

There is no crowding out, new deposits are printed for each bank client

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World Of course there is crowding out. The public sector will compete for limited resources with the private sector. This is econ 101.

[@TheChaosWatcher]

Us treasuries are a reserve drain not an add

[@WellWater-Rural-life]

What gets me is they say the description is to spend on the "right" projects & allocation of resources(not a $ amount issue) YET, who knows what the "right" projects are? Only the free market economy can do that most efficiently. An MMT based government will NEVER know. It's too provincial

[@willnitschke]

If you ever watch parliamentary, congressional or senate committee meetings, you'll notice these people are essentially hooting monkeys. It requires no actual qualifications to rise to the top of the hierarchy. These people, according to MMT, are the wise God-Kings who are smarter than the millions of independent actors in the economy.. 😉 Or put it this way, if the private sector doesn't invest in something, that's most likely because the government is preventing them from doing so, or it's a bad investment. Usually the latter. Hence why governments focus on wealth destroying mal-investments.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

That is true but the fact remains not enough moneyprinting is occurring

[@willnitschke]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World Nonsensical assertions contrary to facts are not arguments.

[@WellWater-Rural-life]

@Richest_Person_in_the_World so, let's print 20x more money put it in everyone's banks accounts and we can all buy Lamborghini's🤦‍♂️, oh, but they can't produce that many so they will raise their price to meet the demand. oof, money printing strikes again😜

[@willnitschke]

@@WellWater-Rural-life "Richest" doesn't appear to have any actual understanding of MMT although he's highly enthused by the ideology. When I've presented him with economic scenarios and asked him to explain how the matter is addressed under the MMT framework, he typically responds by sulking. I.e., "you don't understand MMT but I do." The problem is he can't explain what we don't understand and he can't explain what he does (claim) to understand.

[@ProgressiveEconomicsSupporter]

Why can't you change your mind?? It's not about "wanting someone to be right" it should be about facts and reasoning! And don't talk about government "diverting away" ressources from the private sector - like steeling it or depriving the privates, because their fancy projects and many nonsense product with questionable production conditions is more important than stable bridges, modern schools, a health care system, a social network, police, fire fighters? Common, start getting serious about it. It is important for all of us especially for our kid's. I don't wanna risk the future of my child for stubborn neoliberal economists dominance!!

[@willnitschke]

The government is mal investing and crowding out the private sector. This is a fact, even if it gives you arse pain. We can see the damaging consequences in economies where this is happening, with GDP slowing in proportion to the growth of government, and deceleration in the rise of living standards. For the most part, government should be limited, because collectivist solutions are almost inevitably horribly corrupt and wasteful.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

I'll expand a bit on why moneyprinting is crucial. Warren Mosler uses the example of having 10 students listening to his theory in class, and he decides to coerce them to stay locked there until they bring 1 of his business cards. However, instead of issuing 10 business cards, he only issues 9. So now the ten people can never leave, because the system's in default. And it doesn't matter how well the internal economy functions, there will never be 10 cards for the "tax" since there's only 9 spent.

[@willnitschke]

Yes expansion of the money supply is not a bad thing, so long as GDP is also growing. That's NOT a position any serious economist argues. That's your straw man.

[@qwerty90615]

Stephanie's porn star hair and Mosler's sports car convinced me. I can trust them to create infinite symbols of wealth on a whim, out of nothing, congruent with what takes years of my blood, sweat and tears. What could possibly go wrong? They really need British accents.

[@G_v._Losinj2_ImportantPlaylist]

Lolololol, around the time Jared gives us that clip, she looks rattled like she just discovered the scheme, but still has to work w/ these people to pass this off in front of everyone--another iteration of bkstr-led c0IIctvsm.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

MMT does not claim that moneyprinting creates real wealth

[@qwerty90615]

@@Richest_Person_in_the_World And neither do I. The congruency is a function of manipulated market forces and coercion, like demanding payment in fiat for taxes.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

@@qwerty90615The fiat currency is just a token used for extortion. Their goal is to force people to work in government. If you can avoid working in government, you've avoided the extortion.

[@SS-qk8oc]

Grrr. Argh. I’m super libertarian and super MMT. Here’s my argument in part: End all taxation and “social programs”, minimum wage laws, and the FED, for sure. Money is a token. Issue enough of it to EVERYONE. Weekly for the low-impulse control people, like me. The price of milk won’t go up. Hyperinflation doesn’t come from the printing of the money; the printing of the money is the stupid “solution” that governments come up with to address hyperinflation! Hyperinflation is the loss of faith in government currency. Goldbug libertarians reverse cause and effect. Gold (and silver) is awesome. But a poor currency and token. It’s an old technology. Yes, printing money makes hyperinflation worse, but it’s not the cause. Economics is half supply, half demand, and half psychology. (Yes, that’s three halves, I’m making a point.) Stop taxing everyone, stop issuing debt, stop selling bonds, stop borrowing….. Then, if government just does roads and bridges, then yes, macadam and concrete and steel are defacto “taxed” and prices will adjust. Now, how to reign in government…… maybe actually read the Constitution.

[@willnitschke]

Sorry, you can't be Libertarian and a supporter of MMT, as MMT is a statist ideology, basically the opposite. And yes, inflation is and always will be a momentary phenomena, at least under a fiat currency system. People go to extraordinary lengths not to understand the causes of inflation, even if the reasons for the causes was settled more than 50 years ago.

[@Richest_Person_in_the_World]

So you feel "road building" is enough to support the U.S. dollar

[@Wonderwall627]

Your biggest flaw argument is the same one you saw not to use which is inflation. I want better arguments against inflation, which works for both monetarists and mmt

[@willnitschke]

What does "argument against inflation" supposed to mean?

[@Wonderwall627]

@willnitschke why 2% or 10% inflation is bad. How to explain to other economists that the soft encouragement to spend over save is less good than the cost of slow compounded inflation over a century. Or another example is the increase in cog is worse than the free Healthcare for all or debatable solutions to green energy people say they can fund with printing.

[@willnitschke]

@@Wonderwall627 I think every economist understands inflation is bad. Even the pretend economists like the MMT crowd. As to whether 2% while still bad, has offsetting benefits to compensate, is a bone of contention in economics and not a settled matter. Very briefly, it's argued that 2% has stimulative benefits that exceed its negative impacts. (It is assumed deflation is worse than inflation so it's safer to error on the side of inflation.) Your second question doesn't make sense. It comes down to the rate of inflation and to what degree wages keep up with inflation. "Free" healthcare sounds great. They have "free" healthcare in Cuba. But nobody wants the standard of living of a Cuban. So I think a question like that doesn't really make sense as you're framing it as an IS/OR choice, when it's far more complex than that.

[@jmanakajosh9354]

The problem is nobody is quite sure how inflation happens because it's a product of complex price and resistance levels that we only measure a derivative of.

[@jmanakajosh9354]

​@@willnitschke It's the publicly stated goal of the Fed to have a 2% inflation target. (Of course that's not what they actually think see John Williams "Monetary Policy Strategies for a Low-Neutral-Interest-Rate World") By publicly stating this as the goal they induce the markets to make the change for them. 2% is considered the desired rate because of math. At 3% the value of money halfs to fast.

[@chrisruss9861]

When I heard MMT still requires me to be taxed it got the thumbs down. Same system, different name for all practical purposes.

[@willnitschke]

There is no such thing as a free lunch.