Why did I choose to leave McKinsey?

[@massivefoodbaby]

Great video! I'm a former MBB and currently transitioning to a startup. All points ring true but for me, the reasons for leaving have been (in no particular order): 1) The constant anxiety and stress of meeting internally inflated deadlines 2) The elitism aka the fishbowl effect. I often found myself only doing things because of the constant comparison to my peers 3) The thanklessness of our jobs and everything starting to feel superficial. Hope you find whatever it is you're looking for!

[@juliansihite1289]

Leaving McKinsey and then creating a startup and "real product" = saying consulting is useless hahaha :D I wonder if your startup will need consultant team or not :D If no, then you're saying consulting firm is useless after you'd left McKinsey hahaha :D Anyway, shifting or pivoting is OK, I'm consultant, I'm just worried that Steve Job's opinion about consulting was somehow true ... ex-McKinsey react to Steve Jobs --> Link : kzbin.info/www/bejne/nHKQdIOYoq-Jqac

[@jaimesmith1086]

why thankless?

[@jaimesmith1086]

@@juliansihite1289 interesting video

[@rego3377]

3 reasons, you’re definitely not lying. You were a consultant.

[@angelathenerd4625]

Another ex-McKinsey here, doing my own startup now! This is bringing me back so many memories of getting car sick in a cab while making decks, flying in and out red-eye to join meetings, and all the anxiety and panic attacks I had. Thought I was going to enjoy cut throat industry myself, but truly it isn't for everyone. Great video, Angie!

[@WilliamRandomUploads]

Glad you got out 🥲

[@mar_man813]

Oh jeez.. PTSD is back now. The 2 hour rides through NYC tri-state area back from the client, while making slide decks in a car while on the verge of vomiting. 80% of my coworkers didn't get car sick and couldn't appreciate how painful this was. There just wasn't enough time in the day to generate output, so 14-16 hrs straight was what was required.

[@jaimesmith1086]

@@mar_man813 thats brutal

[@bdo3634]

Imagine if people had the guts to put so much energy and determination to do their own thing instead of “prestigious” careers, we would witness a lot more geniuses…

[@Stoic_Cat_]

I'm currently considering a consulting career and this video was very candid and useful .. especially the future me test :) thank you for sharing!

[@cmonster67]

The one thing that helped me was that I made sure to fly out to customer sites on Sunday and get a good night's sleep at a nearby hotel and I left on Thursdays. No, it's not what most of my teammates did but they never negotiated anything for their positions, not even their salaries. Anyway, I stopped being a consultant for other companies and just started my own firm. I run it how I want to, choose only the clients that I want to work with, plan the engagements and hire other talented consultants who are rockstars in their own rights. I'm still busy but it's a good kind of busy.

[@RT-xj7el]

Great video! I am a consultant too and can vouch for the fact that the high end consultants are extremely arrogant. When I was a Sr. Engineer, I went back to college part time to get another Master's Degree. Accenture was on campus recruiting, so our prof told us we should go and check it out. I've never been more turned off by a company. I was a Sr. engineer and worked with Ph Ds daily and these 20 something kids were big timing the students and were so arrogant. I was not impressed had no respect for them. I felt horrible for the students that were there and just looking to start their careers. I could not imagine working with a more miserable bunch of condescending people.

[@jaimesmith1086]

I wonder why and what makes them arrogant.

[@KingBuffo]

Super high salary, powerful corporate job, and the fact that your job is to advise billion dollar companies!

[@emilyau8023]

It's so interesting that during my research for this career I came across so many consultant KZbinrs who hyped up the life, and then after a few months passed they'd post how they quit/left. Just goes to show in-depth research is important cause if I just watched the videos that showed they were happy then I would still believe I wanted this career.

[@missangielu]

Research is definitely important to help adjust expectations, so that we can all make the right trade off. Good luck with your job search!

[@vwmusicplaylist1935]

Brilliant video. Love how you speak as it's engaging, honest and gets straight to the point with no waffle or flim flam.

[@petrusgimbad946]

I was a Consultant and everything you say is true. There is always the fight to find balance which is a luxury if ever you can get.

[@mbbconsultinghacks]

Ex-BCG here and a lot of these really resonated. Thanks for sharing and loved the video!

[@jaimesmith1086]

what are you upto nowadays

[@AA-db9cb]

A world that makes us the oblivious, self-centered and arrogant pricks we used to hate. I really needed to get out before it was too late. I love poetry.

[@Tiberius_Gracchus]

Thanks for this video. Recently I got my MBA and have been considering a pivot to consulting. The one thing giving me pause is the long hours. Putting in more than 10 hours a day (perpetually), just seems so wild to me. I don't understand how people can live like this. You put your physical and mental health (also personal relationships) in so much jeopardy.

[@missangielu]

It's always a trade-off and it's important to know what you will gain vs. lose from the experience. Although I was burnt out, I also really valued all the learnings & amazing experiences I had from consulting - I have a separate video talking about this if you are interested kzbin.info/www/bejne/bpqwlXmvZquni6M

[@jaimesmith1086]

I think MBA grads tend to go into 3 main sectors: consulting, IB/finance & tech. You can consider tech (product management) as they tend to have good work life balance & compensation. Consulting & IB/finance tends to be poor work life balance.

[@williemsaputra5203]

All the 'why not' reasons is spot on! Typically a consultant will most likely will lose their inner circle friends that they have before being a consultant and the reason is because consultants are trap in the 'consultant bubble' environment..

[@Yeah_Buddy_LIGHTWEIGHT]

Soon-to-be former consultant with one of the fastest growing, industry-specialized consulting firms. I am with the federal practice. The experience has been great with the firm and built a wide range of skills. The culture was actually pretty wholesome and positive and not cutthroat like other larger/prestigious consulting firms. However, I definitely echo your other points. I've been on several understaffed projects where I'm overworked, stressed, and anxious. One unique aspect with the projects I worked on and the federal clients I worked directly with: feds love to use and abuse consultants, in order to advance their control and power over the agency they serve. It's certainly been eye-opening and why I'm ultimately pivoting to the private sector. Definitely not a blanket statement that all federal clients are opportunists or terrible to work with, but it seems fairly common.

[@jaimesmith1086]

congrats on a future move into private sector. What role/function/industry are you targetting?

[@Yeah_Buddy_LIGHTWEIGHT]

@@jaimesmith1086 Thanks! I’m fairly interested broadly in tech and financial services. I’ve been really looking into fintech companies, ranging from neo-banks and insurtech to financial infrastructure startups to payments fintech. In recent months, I’ve been working on certification and skills that would appeal to employers.

[@jaimesmith1086]

@@Yeah_Buddy_LIGHTWEIGHT that sounds great

[@punbishal5874]

There are always gonna be arrogant pricks in any industry I dunno why would they chose arrogance over humility. Literally ppl who are richer than them humble themselves. Thank you so much for a clear info !! I myself am trying to get into McKinsey. It has been like my dream job to get into consulting. All your points are very clear and grounded. Thank you again.

[@missangielu]

Good luck!

[@JannikausKölle]

Looking back would you start at McKinsey again and work for some years or would you rather directly start in a startup? I have the feeling that even though the work is really intense, the learnings and even more the prestige in the cv is very valuable while directly starting in a startup would often just lead to a typical Business development role

[@missangielu]

that's a great question, and honestly one that I'm reflecting on myself recently. While it's really hard to say, I don't regret my time at McKinsey, exactly because of the learning oppty that I had, would probably do it again if I could

[@JannikausKölle]

@@missangielu thanks for your answer! :)

[@ignaciocordovapou]

This content is real and straightforward, thanks for being sincere.

[@RobinOm27]

Love this video! Such a realistic preview! As an HR professional this is valuable insight about the consulting employee experience.

[@dendi1076]

but u'll still do nothing about it as a HR. HR people are the worst. They work only for the company's interests

[@RobinOm27]

@@dendi1076 Hi Dendi, I can understand your sentiment. Unfortunately, all HR people are often generalized as being bad. Organizations that have poor work cultures often have HR people who come across as being mean and cruel. But you might not know, but there also plenty of great organizations that care about the experiences of their employees.. its top priority and I've worked for some of those types of organizations. Not sure which part of the world you're from, but I live in the US and here we have a blend of organizations - some that really care about their employee experiences, and many that don't. I choose to work for organizations that care about their employees. Those are workplaces that HR people shine and do their best work.. because we design work systems that are built to support the employee as a whole-person, where employee experience is front-and-center, in level with custom experience. Organizational culture is not shaped and driven by HR people.. they simply align to it, strategize, and execute. Business executives, mainly the CEO and her direct reports, shape and foster organizational culture. If the culture is one of over work and burn out, its because that's how those leaders have crafted it (profit before people) and given to HR to implement. At so many levels the world of work needs rehabilitation.. plenty of work needs to get done. HR people will not be able to fix it alone.. it will take workers like yourself, business leaders, society, and government to all redefine culture of work. It's already happening and will only accelerate. I'm optimistic about the future.

[@dendi1076]

@@RobinOm27 yap got you, its your job to sound and spew out politically correct statements. HR are trained to be pretty good at crafting and distributing company wide PC messages while executing the most ruthless stuff behind the scenes.

[@jaimesmith1086]

@@RobinOm27 good points

[@家铉陈]

nice video, feel the same even I just did an internship at a consulting company. ex intern at WTW(Willis Towers Watson), saw the "future me" from my colleagues and leader, and found out that the work-life balance did not exist, constant stressful and meaningless work(implementation? nah). so I quit before even had become a consultant. 4 months internship told me to quit...

[@mannix34]

This is very brave and honest of you. Thanks

[@MoandcoLP]

Thank you very much. This really helped me to accept that a career in consulting might not fit for me even though it is quite popular among my alumni.

[@missangielu]

everyone has a different path, i think the important thing is find the path you love

[@jaimesmith1086]

@@missangielu absolutely

[@jaimesmith1086]

why so?

[@tarundiaz1749]

my main reason of wanting to join consulting is to gain general knowledge about various industries which i think it provides and then post that, specialise in one particular field of my interest and create value in it. in short hit it and quit it lol.

[@jaimesmith1086]

good strategy I think

[@duffystrings9680]

Thanks to you and the people in the comments. I just want a stable job. Not worth my peace of mind. I got a McKinsey interview amd I'm not going to attend.

[@jaimesmith1086]

what's the stable join you are thinking of pursuing?

[@ru7984]

I love this video, its extremely relatable. I wish people were more honest

[@ronf28]

Genuine question for all the Ex -McK folks here... Once you become an engagement manager, doesn't your workload and stress level decrease? hence better work-life balance as you climb?

[@missangielu]

with greater power, comes greater responsibility. If anything, stress level & workload increases; however, as you get more seasoned, you will also get better at managing your work / life as well as stress level, it all depends on how you look at it

[@jaimesmith1086]

@@missangielu so EMs have higher stress & worklife than consultants? this's good to know (I basically don't know much about consulting).

[@z0lo322]

Well, I’m lucky to work for a consultancy where we operate without such levels of stress and all external deliverables are a priority but ensuring staff work-life balance. We are entitled to avail annual leaves, religious festive leaves, leave breaks for staff pursuing further 20 educational purpose leaves and 20 casual leaves (annually).

[@missangielu]

that's great to hear!

[@latoyeIdowu]

Oh wow! Do you mind sharing your company's name?

[@jaimesmith1086]

what's the firm & geography?

[@zomgkitteh117]

Thank you for the honesty! This was very helpful.

[@sarabasso7452]

Thank you so much for sharinng your experience! It is extremely helpful!!

[@AsiaAlexander]

I know this video is old, but thank you for posting this.

[@LearningAndGrowingInLife]

Loved the video Angie. Wondering if this hectic US centric consulting lifestyle is the same outside US (say in Canada)?

[@missangielu]

it's usually pretty similar

[@aaronbsimpson]

An honest take. Thanks so much.

[@msceo1920]

Hello Angie, Thank you for sharing your insight regarding being a 'former' consultant. A question I have is this -- was what you describe like that for other roles at McKinsey (i.e., PDM or Learning Specialist)? Or was that mainly with consultants b/c of your experiences as a one?

[@missangielu]

That s more for consultant - if you are interested in non-consultant roles, I can have Raphael do an episode on this, he switched from consulting to the global learning strategy team

[@msceo1920]

@@missangielu Yes...please, I would appreciate it very much! Thanks in advance!

[@jaimesmith1086]

@@missangielu this would be great, pls do.

[@DrEhrfurchtgebietend]

So did I. Its awful there and the pay is meh

[@rakesh8412]

And yet, she helps us getting a job at Mckinsey 😁

[@missangielu]

it's all about info transparency, consulting isnt' all bad, but also not all glam

[@rakesh8412]

@@missangielu First of all, appreciate all your videos, thanks a lot for the amazing content and you are right. I've been a Consultant all my life, the reality is most of the high paying jobs demand elite level output and quick learning skills, it's easy to lose track of our health and personal relationships if not well managed.

[@jaimesmith1086]

@@rakesh8412 how's your consulting experience been like.

[@gummosphere]

hey you! thanks for sharing your story, it was very interesting and useful to hear you experience. i am curious to know what did you graduate as?

[@jaimesmith1086]

BS & MS in Material Science and Engineering.

[@Chillies99123]

Good content! Can you please make a new video on the exit options in management consulting?

[@missangielu]

yep def! thanks for the support!

[@jaimesmith1086]

i hear it's mostly strategy roles in corporates. Maybe product management. Chief of staff too.

[@andywang9251]

Shock a freshman guy with aspiration (Weep) , though knowing what reality isssss, why not give it a shot ? (Hope I'll not regret)

[@hualiang2182]

Nice vid Angie. Wonder would a specialist role (e.g. engineering roles) in McK be different from what you've described?

[@missangielu]

If by specialist you mean focus on a certain industry but still a consultant, then it’s most likely similar

[@byblispersephone2.094]

Ouch all the pressure leading to panic attacks! Sounds very stressful 😢

[@jaimesmith1086]

very stressful it seems

[@moharambik]

Curious to know what did you do after you’ve quit

[@missangielu]

i pivoted into tech and am now a product manager!

[@LearningAndGrowingInLife]

@@missangielu Congrats Angie. PM roles seem to be quite interesting from what I have been gathering online. Would love to learn more about your PM experience in one of the future videos.

[@toothbrushmints5446]

One of severely underpaid jobs a consultant is Not MBB, but I earned X when I worked as consultant Now with 20-30% shorter working hours, I can earn 2X as freelancer... -_-

[@YOUinConsulting]

Seeing from the comments that many other ex-MBBs are watching and reflecting on this video... Another ex-McKinsey here 😀 Seems you are hitting a nerve here 👍 Good luck for your very own next steps, and congratulations on the crazy editing! The photo album animation is sick! 🙂

[@missangielu]

Haha, thanks for the encouragement, really appreciate it!

[@YOUinConsulting]

@@missangielu Most welcome 😀

[@jaimesmith1086]

where do ex-MBBs head into after their stint in consulting?

[@YOUinConsulting]

@Jaime Smith It is not always a stint (for me it was 5 years at McKinsey, but I was surprised at seeing many colleagues who would want to stay even longer). Afterwards, you have plenty of options. Classic exit is to join a client company you have served before. In more recent times, I see many ex-MBBs join take up an executive role at a start-up. Some go into finance, politics etc. McKinsey runs an own career service network, where employers looking for ex-McKinseys can post job adverts. Basically, with the skillset you acquire at a top consulting firm, you can add value pretty much everywhere. The most daring 😉 become self-employed and/or set up an own business. I myself work as an independent management adviser (i.e., acquiring my own clients now) and run a KZbin channel as a side gig, like Angie. Would say though KZbin does not belong to the common exit options... 😉 Hope this answers your question

[@matb1101]

Hey! Nice video. On what industry does your startup operate into? Thanks

[@missangielu]

Currently working in fintech!

[@tejashendre]

This is the life I want to have, work and hustle everyday and never get bored of it and I am also not much interested in implemention of the strategies.

[@missangielu]

Yeah, ever, anyone has a different idea of what their dream lifestyle is. but i think the key is to be happy with your choice and what you do

[@ashwing2713]

Experience is different from imagination ..working 15 hours a day is no joke ..you can do that for first few weeks but after that your body will give up on you even though your are so determined ..That's why there is a golden rule which says work hard but party harder ... ultimately it's not about money and perks

[@jaimesmith1086]

@@ashwing2713 15 hour work days? wow, thats brutal

[@avaq2588]

Thank you this is so realistic and EXACTLY what I’m going through. Do you have any suggestions on exiting if u are an international student? I really can’t go back to my home country due to issues and would like to stay in the us or move elsewhere. Any suggestions on how to find sponsorship I’m 1 year into consulting

[@missangielu]

Typically, if the company you work for have other intl' locations, they will relocate you; otherwise, you can always try to apply for a role in other industries (i.e. tech)

[@jaimesmith1086]

tech & consulting tend to sponsor most of the H1Bs I believe. Moving to Canada is another alternative.

[@samuelputrab.2635]

Hi - great video. Just wondering, is it not an option to travel on Sunday evening instead of Monday morning?

[@missangielu]

thanks! yes it is, but then the weekend is super short, and the "the week is starting" panic starts Sunday after noon

[@jaimesmith1086]

@@missangielu is travel mandatory in consulting?

[@abrahamgomez653]

What do they do? Been a mystery all my life.

[@pratikmanavi]

Nice background view 🪟

[@mohamednaser267]

Thank u for sharing

[@dieglhix]

I have an interview next week and was thinking of asking 2x my salary. Now I will hope NOT to get offered the position.

[@missangielu]

haha everyone's experience is very different, i've also gained quite a lot of experiences from McKinsey. Good luck with your interview

[@dieglhix]

@@missangielu Thanks!! I will do my best!

[@jaimesmith1086]

haha, why not

[@Alejandro-mo4pt]

MissAngeliu i have a question Does a goldman sachs MD make more money than a Mckinsey partner? Thanks for your answer

[@missangielu]

Hi sorry, I have no idea

[@andriipopadiuk2316]

thanks for sharing!

[@asela732]

Very true

[@cocoarecords]

Love your content

[@ChiaraGiovanni]

I love your lipstick!

[@lalawatter0989]

i almost noticed that MBB people often form or join startups

[@missangielu]

yeah, that is a typical path, consulting really opens up more doors for you

[@CountingSong]

I've decided to leave my consulting job today and this pops up on my recommended page lol

[@missangielu]

happy leaving 😄

[@jaimesmith1086]

lol, what were you reasons for leaving & where are you headed

[@GDScriptDude]

Do you think that you and your team provided great consultancy advice to clients?

[@dendi1076]

LOL obviously not, they are the biggest scams

[@jaimesmith1086]

@@dendi1076 why so?

[@stephenoliva5875]

Good at icons

[@kitstudent4446]

I am currently preparing for interviews as an engineer in consulting, would you think, that it's worth tondo an internship. Also when ylthe points you mention don't attract me at all to this. Also do you think you can get rid off the panics etc whil working only till the academic leave?

[@sebastiankian5074]

What you complain about sounds so fun to an investment banking analyst/associate :(

[@jaimesmith1086]

yup, IB is the grind

[@DrEhrfurchtgebietend]

This is so outdated. Partners don't work that much and the work is actually quite easy for junior people. The hours are still super rough for jr people. However, the thing that makes it not worth it is the pay can't match market when you calculate it hourly and it's super toxic. But most importantly, McKinsey is the source of some of the greatest evils in the world and it's hard to sign up for that

[@enizbaytar7844]

Why do that many ppl be working on those big3 and big4 companies ? Never met actually someone that is happy being there

[@everlastingrhetoric8921]

Subscribed 👍

[@ISATGDuh]

imagine this but 2x worse = investment banking.

[@missangielu]

Haha yes, and that’s why I tried to avoid in the first place, thought consulting was the happy balance

[@jaimesmith1086]

I hear horror stories in IB. Though they get paid well but the 16hr/day grind is unsustainable I feel.

[@caruniv3287]

Super 🔥

[@huaweihonor7714]

true

[@Stephano.MBravo1]

I thought it will be something intelligent when i felt on this video....

[@WilliamRandomUploads]

Sounds like a really intense lifestyle

[@joylm9108]

what program did you study at Northwestern university.

[@missangielu]

I studied engineering

[@jaimesmith1086]

Material Science & Engineering (BS & MS)

[@Danniel.souzza]

awesome

[@Bambotb]

You need to win H1B lottery

[@raulsanches3619]

If you worked hard in consulting, You did it all wrong...

[@missangielu]

so what would you do instead?

[@raulsanches3619]

@@missangielu Plenty of consultants DON"T work hard on projects- then they sit on the bench and then go to a new project where they again don't work hard and just bill their clients $500 an hour. This is especially true in the remote era. If you work hard in consulting, you are doing it wrong. Very much a newbie/fresher thing to do. The point of moving up in your career is to work less and make more... At the top: nobody works hard.

[@AR9ify]

McKinsey is not the best. They are small and limited. Get real

[@jaimesmith1086]

who's the best then?

[@Irrirriii]

This Chinese woman is funny

[@jaimesmith1086]

why?

[@accountname1651]

how did you come back to your humility again, how could you recover outside of this bubble and come back to real-life? I would be happy to talk to you about it if you don't mind. What's your name on Linkedin?

[@missangielu]

I focused on expending my network, making connections with more ppl with diverse background and just keeping an open mind. It s so much easier to do when you aren’t surrounded by people who talk about the same thing every day

[@accountname1651]

@@missangielu I know exactly what you mean. Been in a company where competition has been less than @McK but the atmosphere has been bad, a lot of restructuring and bad mood, slowed you down.

[@Davos-st8ok]

Not everyone can hack it at MBB. You might be able to bullshit your way in but actually doing the work is tough.

[@missangielu]

First of all, MBB recruiting does an excellent job of ensuring that the right people, with the right skills and demonstrated abilities are extended offers. 

 Second of all, there are many reasons people choose to leave, and for many different reasons. And just because someone doesn’t choose to spend their entire career in management consulting, does not mean they are a failure or cannot “hack it at MBB”. Many MBB alumni go on to do great things and have happy, successful careers.

[@Davos-st8ok]

@@missangielu If Mckinsey did such a good job at hiring the right people, their attrition rate at the lower rungs would not be this high. You don't have any demonstrated abilities when you've just graduated, you're untested. Many fail their first test in entry level roles and bail within 2 years, that's just part of the hiring process to weed out the unfit.