Missing In The Jungle, Camera Found With Eerie Pics: What Happened to Kris Kremers & Lisanne Froon?

[@MileHigher]

For those of you who were on the premiere, we’re sorry we had to take it down and reupload. KZbin was giving us trouble and some of you were saying there were random glitches. We decided not to premiere again today and hopefully that fixes the issue!

[@MrsD2101]

I was like woah where have they gone 😂 then spent an age trying to find the premiere again thinking I'd done something to click out 🙈 can't wait to carry on watching. Another awesome episode guys. Thanks. Love from the UK 🇬🇧 ❤ p.s. your Halloween costumes and little Holly pottering along were the cutest thing 🎃👻🫶🏽

[@ReconPro]

Have a great day everyone 💗

[@L-n-o-v-a]

No prob, thanks

[@Renee529]

Awesome thanks!

[@brittanyt33f]

I'm excited to watch it again. It was excellent up until and tech issues are understandable. Thanks for all that you do!

[@carsoncrouch7895]

What makes me sad is thinking one died first and how lonely and scared the last girl must’ve felt.

[@ashleyduckworthyt3224]

That would be the WORST. all the spooky sounds in the dark, your best friend is dead, and you’re lost without any hope. It’s so so sad to contemplate

[@wheatbread2002]

That was what I was thinking.

[@portiae4510]

My exact thoughts. At that point I think I would have given up too.

[@s444rah]

so horrifying to think about 😢

[@tomato.sandwich]

A true nightmare 😭

[@ashleydelossantos4768]

I agree with Josh on them turning off their phones to preserve battery life, especially if they were lost. They were in survival mode and hoping for a better connection

[@CaseyMarie11-11]

I agree 💯

[@rachelsolives]

Hope doesn’t get ya outta the jungle.

[@vanessarico369]

I am surprised that no one has mentioned the lack of food and water could have made the ladies disoriented. Maybe they tried to go back at some point but it is a jungle and everything looks pretty much the same. I do also believe that the frantic photos was probably the night one of them were spending alone with the other dying (beyond scary and heartbreaking). The longer intervals were probably the the remaining lady falling asleep. This is so tragic and as a parent my heart goes out to these families.

[@LaLuna82]

Isn’t it odd how there was drinking water left in the backpack when they found it 🤔

[@Saygoodnightfight]

@@LaLuna82not really that odd, people keep stating “No food or water” when in reality they had plenty of water BUT no food - they were following a river so they had infinite access to water. If they had very little access to water, they would’ve died way sooner.

[@LaLuna82]

@@Saygoodnightfight that’s what is odd, everyone saying they’d gone 8 days or so with no water but there was water in the pack. One of them got an infection in their feet from walking too much and that must have killed her.

[@lillianraker6429]

@@Saygoodnightfightriver water isn’t a reliable source of clean water. They probably tried to hold off drinking it and were delirious from dehydration (doesn’t take long.) Or they eventually did drink it and it accelerated their illness.

[@ProgressIsTheOnlyEvolution]

They were murdered, they did not die from getting lost in the woods

[@scout72430]

39:31 If a call wasn't going through at all, and I knew my battery was running low what would calling multiple times in a row accomplish? Other than draining the battery. I'm with Josh, they probably recognized that they needed to keep it moving rather than just waste daylight hours in one spot with no signal

[@marissarodriguez7300]

Exactly she’s kind of off with her theory she just kept going on and on I wouldn’t keep calling and wasting battery or daylight your in the jungle if it doesn’t go through once I wouldn’t keep trying in the same area.

[@Lucca_1313]

Yes! Totally agree with Josh. She kept pushing her senseless argument. Spent a little too much time going nowhere with that. Glad kendall came to the rescue to move her along.

[@joby3965]

I agree with Josh too. Not only that but these aren’t American girls, getting immediately hysterical isn’t culturally appropriate for them.

[@kristing1350]

I had to fast forward this part lol

[@annegennaria5763]

Same! Didn’t enjoy the prolonged input.

[@donnadelrey6744]

Wowzas that phone conversation about dialing the emergency number with the back and forth went on for far too long lol. That being said, I agree with Josh.

[@barelyreal1]

lmao yeah, and it felt a bit pointless too imo, nothing new was reached

[@SC28008]

Idk what point that girl was trying to make lol

[@stenodiva777]

Ugh. She just.wouldnt.stop. poor Josh.

[@ashleymilden5946]

It would have been different if she actually had a point but she didn’t she was basically arguing that she would have done something different and in the end had no theory or anything

[@karet7904]

josh is actually the one who kept it going. and the one who asked julia for her take. and then janelle asked her a question about her opinion. did we listen to the same conversation?

[@meghanparr5930]

Geez, 10 years today since they went missing. I've followed this story for years now, and I know the family's not likely to get any more answers, but my thoughts and prayers are with them, especially today. ♡

[@kayla3751]

I feel like everyone who's interested in true crime/disappearances has that one case they can't get over, and this is definitely mine. I'm so excited to watch you guys cover it.

[@SpookyThinks]

My case was the Alicia Navarro case. I’m so glad she was found. The idea that your kid could just disappear without a trace is some parent’s worst nightmare.

[@samantarizzi248]

Mine is JonBenet Ramsey case. I just can’t stop thinking about this little girl and her tragic death for some reason. But this one is another weird case, super creepy, sad and mysterious!

[@cuntapalooza]

Same! I revisit this case often hoping for updates to give the families peace. Glad to see the best TC creators are covering it!

[@SC28008]

This was the first true crime story I listened to years ago! I’ve never stopped thinking about it

[@mel79x]

Mine is definitely the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. That entire case is just so bizarre to me.

[@Karabear6996]

I def believe Kris was dead by the time of that photo that Liz took. I also believe Josh hit the nail on the head about Liz using the camera as a sort of signal for the rescue teams, as well as the branch as an indicator of where they were. I think Liz was scared and didn't want to leave her friend alone, dead or alive. I can't imagine the panic they must've gone through. A week is an insane amount of time to be lost in the jungle.

[@brittanyreed4377]

That’s what I think too, most of the pictures were around the same location which makes me think she was using it as a signal..she most likely knew it was going to be harder for her to be found if she kept moving

[@kheventplanner]

I completely agree as well

[@adstein631]

Agree!

[@candiland_plus6679]

Yes this is exactly what I think! Kris fell or slipped into the creek and by the time Liz got her out she was severely injured or drowned. Maybe Liz was trying to show that Kris was gone with that pic-memorialize her or to show if someone found that camera. I def think Liz was starting to panic. She had to be starving and thirsty. Possibly delusional. She thought she heard something and used the cam for sos pictures and used the map and pringles can as a signal. She couldn’t remember the pin to Kris’s phone so she couldn’t use it. I think Liz was alive for days after Kris before she succumbed to hunger and exhaustion.

[@tonicox4005]

But then they would have been dragged to the river by animals right? Where they were wasn’t necessarily right by it.

[@septembersmorris]

Just came here to say I love Julia's input and really showed how much work she put into researching this story. I'm so sorry to hear that people are tearing her down. Mile Higher Media is such a great group of people we need more of in the "influencer" world. I'm so sorry for Julia I hope she heals past this and gets her spark back. Thank you Kendall, Josh, and Janelle for addressing this. Much love for you all! ❤

[@kristeves12]

Thanks for adding kindness to this thread. Definitely missed Julia this week!! ❤

[@poppyogden1622]

Me too! ❤ lots of love to Julia ❤

[@aliceepalermo5047]

Absolutely❤

[@Hidaya1986]

Incoherent input 😂

[@starrgirlrocks]

Im sorry the way the significant 6.2 earthquake (see time stamp;49:35) was seemingly glossed over is insane! An earthquake of that magnitude, even at such a distance, would be undeniably terrifying, especially in the heart of a mountainous jungle. Not to mention the far-reaching environmental effects that inevitably follow. The potential for injury alone from the earthquake should not be underestimated; it could have exacerbated their stress and possibly disoriented them if they weren’t already. Based solely on the information provided in this podcast, it strongly suggests that one of them may have sustained injuries after the April 2nd earthquake while initially and intentionally venturing beyond the designated trail's endpoint.

[@darkdivine2138]

I think this is such a solid theory

[@mirandagarcia7866]

Yess omg the earthquake itself could've added to them getting even more lost and farther away from the mirador!!! It's wild how they didn't go deeper on this

[@toomuchbongwater]

right! no one really talks about the earthquakes

[@candiland_plus6679]

Oh my gosh, I forgot about the earth quake by the end of the video! I think there’s a good chance that’s where Kris would of got hurt. Especially if you remember in the pics how they were walking in the nearly empty river bed far below the water levels/cliffs. If a chunk of rock slid down and even hit one of them it could of been deadly!

[@NathalieCwiekSwiercz]

Exactly

[@montanahelton1272]

I think it’s possible that snapping pictures helped her feel better in the dark and being able to see something. If it was dark and she was hearing jungle sounds maybe she just needed to get some pictures to feel better.

[@tcreative8030]

...or needed light to see what it was.

[@reelfishinmomma498]

This was also my thought, I know I'd surely be freaking out in a strange place in the pitch dark hearing noises of the jungle! I'd probably do anything to see to make sure something wasn't nearby. Ugh, just breaks my heart thinking of how terrified they were, makes my heart drop. Praying for answers for their parents and families. Such a terribly sad case.

[@jukie16]

Yeah at that point her friend was likely dead and she was all alone In the dark jungle. So scary to think about, plus she was probably not in the best mental state with no food no water and the trauma of your friend dying.

[@The.Real.NicoRobin]

I agree cause they could have heard something in the dark and they were trying to illumiate their surrounding area to see if they could see something/somebody and catch whatever it was they heard and also be able to see where their going

[@robinfa-84-tx79]

Flashing to give light and possibly to scare off any wildlife. Not taking intended photos at this point. So horrible for these young women. Sympathy and prayers.

[@sabrinakrause4966]

Kudos to Julia for doing all that research! That must have been so much work! And she has clearly studied this case extensively

[@IssieAndLife]

We love you Julia

[@leii_1277]

We do love Julia ❤️

[@Makeeverydayyourbestday]

I think Julia brings a wonderful addition to the crew. Smart and beautiful. From a Scottish gran 💜

[@laurajohnson840]

Thats her job. She gets paid I'm sure extremely well to do her job.

[@Peachie_Cinnamon]

​@@laurajohnson840 People are just giving appreciation for a job well done.

[@tessstephens427]

I miss hearing Janelle's banter and input. She's been so quiet 😥 we love you Janelle! (And Josh and Kendall and all yall at Mile Higher)

[@larabaidengan2123]

I miss hearing her input too!

[@Beachnance]

I miss her too!

[@bigkel1901]

I don’t miss Janelle’s banter at all lol

[@lilastar7759]

@@bigkel1901okay big kel

[@angelanns25]

@@bigkel1901big kel lame asf

[@shannonhadfield7482]

As someone who is afraid of the dark, I think it’s possible they took repetitive photos so the flashes of light could provide temporary illumination of their surroundings. Depending on the moon phase the viability could’ve been nonexistent at night. I also agree with Josh that they spaced out emergency calls to conserve battery.

[@rusla-k]

Photos was made only one night and it was after more than a week in the jungle

[@dannabanana52]

I agree. Maybe trying to signal with the flash

[@MyHeartIsInVermont]

Exactly what I was thinking 🤔

[@andreeab2948]

A flash of light just for a couple o seconds în complete darknes would blind you rather then help you see

[@shannonhadfield7482]

@@andreeab2948 they could look at the photo on the digital camera to review what it picked up

[@Middys1]

Thank you guys for doing a detailed podcast on this case. This has clarified many contradictions I had heard with these mini incomplete videos made my others. I appreciate your hard work on this!

[@MileHigher]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@Adopt_dont_shop_Dee]

If I were a host parent I would have got my own searches going with volunteers. Thats me though, I would have immediately thought they got lost. Hiking in the US can be dangerous let alone in the panama jungle

[@antiquesrestoration3874]

The fact that they left without fully charging their phones indicates they vastly underestimated the trail.

[@anjou6497]

But they were highly intelligent girls, so i think it indicates they had NO intention of staying in the forest for any length of time other than a short hike. 🌱🤔

[@mantrae_]

​@@anjou6497 irresponsibility knows no age.

[@thanksformutton1037]

@@anjou6497they might t have cared since there was no service anyway.

[@scruffyalice-ff5pz]

and the fact they continued onwards after reaching their intended destination.

[@dalatina911]

I wonder if those night pictures of the landscape were taken because they were hearing strange noises and she would capture a pic of her surroundings to make sure a predator wasn’t around or something. I can’t imagine how terrifying the sounds would be in that place at night!

[@babyboysinberry8200]

This is such a good idea! Anyone who has been in the jungle at night knows full well how spooky and how many sounds there can be. Let alone if you have never been out in that kind of environment at dark.

[@withpeacelove366]

That was my first thought. I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned in the episode because Panama has jaguars and cougars/pumas so they could have gotten attacked or heard noises in the woods. The only thing i would say that would be against that theory is that a lot of the pictures were pointing up at the sky and if they heard a growl walking in the woods and it was one of these big cats, most likely the camera would probably not be pointed at the sky and if the animal was close enough to where it was watching them, then its eyes would have reflected in the camera so there would have been the glowing eyes in the pictures. But i suppose they could have heard something loud further away that wasn't watching them but just fighting or mating in the distance and thats why there were no eyes or they could have heard something in the trees and thats why there were photos pointing up. But regardless they still could have been killed by a predator.

[@beethimbles8801]

I think that too

[@DiMagnolia]

I was thinking the same, especially with the rapid photo taking being so frantic

[@melissasavino2377]

This is what I was thinking too! I’m so glad you think so too lol

[@Hanavannin]

It's so maddening how much false information was spread on the Internet about this case, I didn't know half of the stuff you cleared up was reported wrong. Great video as always guys

[@sumaiyxa]

this case has stuck with me ever since I first heard about it, glad to see you guys are covering it

[@allietripp8057]

Oh my... as an experienced hiker. I think they got lost... Limited resources, limited light (daylight only to move), unknown location, dense forest coverage, and animal track trails. Those are SOS attempts to get them located/PU. I've been lost ONCE. Simply for walking off path to take a few pictures. That desperation is there from the girls with the calls, but conservation is a must. They had no water and no extra food. They had 16 Oz to last how many days??? That is an instant X, unless you have a filtering aid. I've been in a "no service" area, but when the right satellite rolls by, your phone will light up with notifications from calls, texts, apps, etc. That's speaking from experience. Storms will even interfere with service. God rest their souls. I pray for peace and healing for their families.

[@Melissa-Glover]

I think so too. I don't think there was foul play.

[@richardwilsonavena]

What about the perfectly folded clothes?

[@Melissa-Glover]

@@richardwilsonavena They said that wasn't true.

[@STate-sw9ld]

Couldnt they have filled their water bottles in the river? A water bottle was found in the backpack and it wasnt empty which shows that they were drinking over the days they were out there

[@TM-jo8yr]

I got lost once too. Well I knew where we were but we just couldn’t get back over to the trail. The brush was so thick and sharp. I started feeling panicked but I knew we were pretty close to the parking lot by that point and I didn’t want to be embarrassed getting rescued from there 😂 but I can see how easy it would be. One wrong turn and suddenly you’re blocked and can’t get back.

[@danielson518]

I have been hiking in several areas in Costa Rica and it is absolutely gorgeous. However, I would never go out without a guide who knows the area, the weather patterns, and the wildlife because you encounter so many situations you would not expect and as Kendall mentioned there is a lot of poisonous snakes, bugs, spiders, etc out there.

[@sucram1018]

I wouldn't go at all. It's a wild life environment. No amount of skills nor experience will save you all the time in an environment where wildlife thrive and can come at you anytime.

[@Smutenka-gi9ln]

It´s so heartbreaking when you realize how desperately they tried to save themselves...

[@mxblyxky]

This is called survival instinct.

[@miagoodrick1217]

the debate about calling the emergency number was absolutely stupid and paints these girls in a very idiotic light when they absolutely did the right thing

[@amandacarullo8638]

Did they? They ended up in pieces and at one point they had a single bar and only tried the police one time. Stupid speculation

[@IndigoCave28]

@@amandacarullo8638right

[@mijiah]

@@amandacarullo8638 lmfao ok amanda. call these poor girls who have families that loved them stupid for dying. log off.

[@Barelo]

@@amandacarullo8638they tried police every time lmao cd

[@BrookeKatherine.]

@@amandacarullo8638did you literally miss the whole spread sheet of every time they called 211 & 911.

[@CJ2023Incognito]

I appreciate that Josh is logical and to the point.

[@KaitlynMayReads]

I agree with Josh. I think they accidentally went off trail on accident, they probably fell or somehow hurt themselves, used their flash as a light source, and eventually succumbed to the elements.

[@Fire-Rabbit87]

Agreed! I really don't think there was foul play or cover up. Just a series of unfortunate events 😥

[@albertravey4193]

Makes me think of that woman who disappeared on the Appalachian Trail and it took 2 years to find her body. She'd kept a journal and it turned out she'd just left the trail to take a leak behind a tree and she couldn't find the trail again. Her body wasn't far from the trail and she was less than 30 minutes' walk from a shelter. It's easy to get completely lost very quickly in wild places.@@Fire-Rabbit87

[@Fire-Rabbit87]

@OnceTheyNamedMeiWasnt scattered along the river and scavenged by animals. They identified some of their remains, but recovering everything from a river is impossible

[@xxxxxx-pb5kr]

that doesnt answer the deleted photo bit

[@mayraa457]

there is proof that someone from a computer deleted a picture. also chemicals were found on some bones...how do you explain that?

[@lunalovegood9431]

In 8th grade, my class took a hiking trip to a local forest area with a spot everyone called the “Pinnacle” bc it was a very high hilltop spot to view the town and surrounding areas. It’s a beautiful spot. Even though most of the kids in my class had been on these trails, we, as a group, got completely lost. We were supposed to be back at school by 3pm for bus pickup but we didn’t make out of the woods until 5pm. Fortunately no one was injured and afterwards we laughed it off. The point is that is SO incredibly easy to get lost in the woods even if you are experienced or familiar with the area.

[@queenizzy01]

And that’s in broad daylight!! These girls might’ve not realized how disoriented they were until the sun started setting

[@bePack07]

I keep coming back to this case again and again and have watched countless analysis. This is the most fact driven one I have seen so far 👍

[@teresag-75]

All I can say is - Kris & Lis, I am so sorry that these were the last moments of your lives. I can’t imagine how you both felt in those 10 days. I just hope and pray - that whatever happened to these 2 beautiful women that it wasn’t too painful. I also hope that both families are doing ok now without their beloved family members. It must be so hard not knowing how their daughters passed.

[@danadomino]

As someone with a bachelors in photography, im not surprised by the missing photo 509 at all. Ive had weird things happen before. Taken photos and you snap that perfect shot, you go to look at it on the computer and its just gone, its just not there, like you never took the photo. Tech isnt 100%, so I'm not surprised at all by a weird glitch and a missing photo. I also think she thought she heard something and started using the flash as a way to try to get attention. Either that or her friend was on the brink of death and got really desperate to maybe try to catch someone's attention with the flash, hoping a rescuer in the area will see it.

[@Cenagirl4ever]

My late husband went to school with these girls. My husband was hit by a drunk driver while riding hid bike and another classmate of theirs was struck by lightning. A lot of freak tragedies have affected this poor group.

[@sunsunny2929]

Tragedy

[@methdrinkerr]

Final destination 👀

[@yuhanperera1032]

I’m so sorry to hear that. My deepest sympathies

[@MS-vq4th]

Its so frustrating to know that there has been so much misinformation spread about these girls and this case over the years that its warped everything that the general public have been told Thank you for setting so much of it straight!

[@naverich4603]

There is a whole other side to this story that just seems too weird and too coincidental to not have some kind of truth in them. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I always try to look at the things as objectively as possible and Occam's razor says that the easiest explanation is usually the right one...but the rumors surrounding the case and mysterious death of 4 people connected to those rumors is just so so so weird.

[@MS-vq4th]

@@naverich4603 do you happen to have any information about the 4 people who died surrounding this case?

[@joby3965]

@@naverich4603who died that were connected to the case/rumors?

[@paulcarfantan6688]

@@MS-vq4th We don`t but Juan Perea y Monsuwe does. Watch his videos and check out his blogs, the answers are all there especially since one of the 4 who died `s mother retold what her son confided in her regarding the events around the murder of the two girls.

[@tamara6212]

​@@MS-vq4th I believe the taxi driver(the one who drove the girls to the start of the Pianista trail), two local guys that shared the taxi ride, All three died under suspicious circumstances.

[@courtney3692]

Josh: This might take you a few days to listen to. Me: Watching in one sitting with a bag of cheetos 😮 Loving these longer episodes! ❤

[@realtalkwithrebecca8526]

Amen courtney. Amen. ❤😂🎉

[@sammharry]

Sameeee

[@martynaleier8816]

Hahahaha with wine 😂

[@faridaaminy9734]

Me too,lol

[@natalieparks98]

Sameee! We are currently renovating the house, and I’ve been cleaning and packing stuff alll day. The pod saved me today!!

[@mette9279]

I'm from the Netherlands and remember this story being big on the news. Everyone was wondering what happened to the girls, but as far as I know the story was always that they got lost somewhere. I can't imagine how scary their last moments must have been, trying to find your way back, feeling your body getting weaker and knowing you don't have much time left. My heart goes out to the families of the girls

[@mxblyxky]

No news. Imagine, the Dutch press, fans of Che Guevara, the murderous doctor, would insinuate that someone from the "oppressed" population could commit the crime!

[@evgeniya_evg]

They were not lost Someone helped them to disappear

[@OoxB505]

@@evgeniya_evg nope. Unfortunately they got lost and passed away

[@luizag123]

I always love Kendall’s way of looking at things and theorizing, she’d be a pretty good detective

[@The.Real.NicoRobin]

I do too she has a wonderful way of atriculating things

[@oliviamurphy4129]

i agree with josh, you wouldn’t just keep ringing incase your phone ran out of charge… completely makes sense what they did

[@stevenmcghee6649]

But you would try several times at the one spot where a call did connect, brief though it was. They didn't.

[@laurashumaker7253]

What about the 6.2 earthquake? I think that's a HUGE part of this.

[@megansslore]

These poor poor girls. I'm so sorry this happened to them, the whole thing sounds absolutely horrific. Thank you guys for telling their story with such dedication & compassion. Rest in Peace Kris & Lisanne 🤍

[@snehasatish791]

Exactly, i can’t help but think about how scared they were at night, the cold is unbearable and god knows what they heard. I can’t even walk alone at night, i get so freaked. Rest in peace K&L😔

[@jadyyoungperez3350]

OmG I am from Panama, have been your fan for many many years. This case has haunted me for so long and I’m so happy you went over it. Panama is usually very safe, but you never know in remote/ghetto areas. Thank you for saying good things about my country :) ❤

[@defenselessswft]

This video really helped me understand more of the events that led up to what happened. All the videos I’ve seen just said they went on a random hike. thank you for all of the information!!

[@ScaryPoppins]

I've been fascinated with this case for years. I'm with Josh as to why they would call 911 every few or more hours. If I couldn't get a signal I would wait until I got to a clearing or higher ground to try again. As big as that place is, it would take a few hours.

[@eden20111]

Another thing to note is that rainforests are literal ovens. The high humidity plus the heat makes it unbearably hot. People think deserts are hotter. People have NO idea just how hot it can get in a rainforest. Mix in that humidity and you are literally cooking from the inside out. If the girls did pass away, their bodies would be completely decomposed within a week and their remains would be scattered and nearly skeletalized. I really hope the family get some type of closure. I can’t imagine the pain they are dealing with.

[@leannaostrowski5435]

Humidity hot hits a lot different than dry hot for sure.

[@isabellrose]

and they only had one bottle of water!

[@crochetingcanuck]

And there are many insects that are good at cleaning up matter on bones quite quickly. The bones would then have been in the heat and sun quite a bit after that, which would explain the apparent bleached condition.

[@Imnotscaredofyou69]

When the autopsy was released it was noted that their tissues were kept in a low temperature, covered area. Which makes this even weirder considering the oven the jungle is

[@anjou6497]

​@@isabellrose There was the river there tho (even risk of contaminated water), and rainwater could be collected on large leaves or in their plastic water bottle repeatedly. So i doubt thirst would have killed them..🌱

[@ChiM97]

I really don't think foul play can be ruled out just because of how poorly the search, investigation and findings of this case were handled.

[@tomato.sandwich]

I’m so stoked you guys covered this. This is one of the first cases that really stuck with me wondering wtf actually happened. These poor girls man, I can’t imagine the terror they endured. Chills me to the bone.

[@beneaththepaint]

I don’t think this case as a strange as everyone is making it out to be. One of the girls already had trouble with pain when walking. She probably slipped and hit her head. They couldn’t leave each other. Probably got disoriented and lost. Using the camera to see or to trigger flashes of light for help. We obviously see they ripped up the map to signal an SOS. And because the authorities didn’t know where to look and waited to search, they succumbed to the elements. That’s it. Nothing weird about it. God rest their souls.

[@selmar709]

My thoughts exactly

[@lauracollingwood6482]

I really thought I was missing something with how many theories there were bc to me it seems pretty open and close. All the “weird” circumstances have some type of normal explanation idk. A tragedy but I don’t think a mystery

[@katilaro]

Totally agree. I got to the end of the episode and couldn’t believe it went on so long with so little information but maybe I’m seeing dots others aren’t

[@nicoley4ever]

@@ekl2947but they didn’t know where they were. If one left to go get help, she’d be alone and lost and who’s to say she could guide help back to the injured one

[@emofbi4935]

@@ekl2947so what do you think happened instead of OP’s theory? i’m genuinely curious cause i have no clue

[@jcqlnr464]

I think you guys are spot on with this case. I love hearing true crime content that actually goes on the facts and not hearsay and speculation. 👍

[@JinxyXO]

Thank you for the quick reupload! Things happen and we all appreciate the teams efforts! Thank you for all you do! ❤❤❤❤

[@MileHigher]

We appreciate your patience!

[@androckon]

The women who told the investigator they wouldn't remove their bras if they were lost in the forest probably told him "no" because of how he asked.

[@floral-smoke]

And because he was a man asking and probably felt uncomfortable? Idk, but honestly I never wear bras anymore only bralettes because I just refuse the discomfort

[@TM-jo8yr]

I wear my bras all the time so it depends on the person

[@gingerlee726]

Why would you remove your bra if lost? Ide want as much body coverage as possible.

[@0seadragon0]

@@gingerlee726 humidity?

[@Nmbr1fan]

​​@@gingerlee726chafing from being sweaty or getting wet.

[@EllieO-23]

@julia we love you and I am SO GLAD you aren’t afraid to speak your mind on this show!! And so what that a conversation went on too long? That is more feedback for editing not their conversation!! Thank you Mile Higher Team for showing what open dialogue means and NOT fighting! LOVE YOU JULIA!!

[@alleygracesmith]

❤ Yes!! ❤

[@sharmashari]

As a photographer, this is can happen. It is 1s and 0s glitches and skips can happen. The conditions of the jungle (humidity, rain, heat,etc) can make the camera malfunction . Also, I have photos being recovered and numbers being missing. You can recover photos but it is not a perfect science and some files never get recovered. No matter how good the recovery program is.

[@sylviavanderwoude3054]

Given the camera battery was strong and/or they had additional spare batteries, I can also imagine they took pictures every night for light but overwrote each night because of limited number of pictures. File numbers could also mess up from repeated erasing and overwriting?

[@mxblyxky]

Yes, this issue of a "missing" photo was not completely clarified, I did not see any opinion from a qualified technician.

[@jski718]

But it just so happens to be the one picture between the day and night photos? I don't think so.

[@EvolvingAim]

Thank you for hanging out with me while I deep clean/organize my 4 childrens rooms 😅😭 needing these 2 hours lol Love yall ✨️✌️

[@Unchainedmelody151]

Let’s all give Josh a hand for carrying this episode.

[@zouz8195]

Excuse me? How about you give the three other women some credit for contributing their time and effort into learning this case. Wtf have you done?

[@NotDarlaYT]

I agree with Josh, they definitely saved battery and waited for service as they moved around. I also believe even if they traded pins they were hungry, tired, thirsty and I’m sure their brains weren’t 100 percent there.

[@Whosthatgirl21]

Yea, but he doesn’t have to be a dick about it!

[@maria-vl3xx]

@@Whosthatgirl21lol the girl just kept rambling on on his show

[@Whosthatgirl21]

@@maria-vl3xx his show is Light’s Out, and he was reamed out by his followers for talking over his new cohost in the beginning. He had to address in the next episode. Look it up.

[@Sarah-sj6lj]

​@Shannon0417 he interrupted her ONCE, on accident, and he wasn't a dick at any point. He was respectful with his responses and everything.

[@Whosthatgirl21]

@@Sarah-sj6lj your view. You can clearly see Kendall trying to squash it with Josh. She kept saying, I can see her point. He had to have the last word. Listen, he was basically “yelled” at by most of his listeners at Light’s Out for not letting his new cohost get a word in, in the beginning. He had to address his audience in the next episode. Look it up. It’s not drumming up in my mind. I love Josh, but he can be full of himself. Just respect other people’s opinions.

[@adda312]

I'm Dutch! Been waiting for this one...I'm so ready for your deep dive!! These girls pop up I my head so often, it's just so frustrating how there are now answers😢 I'm already thankful for all your hard work researching this so I am ready for the next 2.5 hours 🙏🏿

[@lorimiller4301]

Please check out Juan Perea y Monsuwè for a deep dive on this story.

[@Elairee]

Thank you for covering every little detail of this case. This case was huge around the time the girls went missing and I remember that everyone in my country (I'm from the Netherlands) were shocked when they found out what happened to them. I just hope they won't be forgotten. Your pronunciation was really good!

[@andreanikcole6449]

What happened to them?

[@GloomyYumi]

As tragic as this case is, I do believe it was an accident. There are some weird parts but none of it is enough for me to even consider a third party being involved

[@MC32595]

agreed

[@NyxyPixie]

Agreed. I had heard the misreporting about the items being dry etc and from that info it certainly sounds suspicious but… with the activity on the phones and realizing the items were actually wet and battered… I think they got lost and fell into or were washed into the river 😢 It’s so sad to think that if a search party was dispatched when they were reported to have not been back and missed appointments, they might have been rescued.

[@mariacherrington61920]

I have a hard time with the foul play bc unless theres a village of indigenous ppl in the jungle someplace, who would be in the middle of the jungle

[@amandabraun5289]

@@mariacherrington61920, there is. Lots of people hike those trails. That’s why the girls were in the middle of the jungle.

[@virginiad.1911]

Yea the only sus thing to me is photo 509

[@annamarusarz7628]

Josh and the girl with the bangs were going at it for a sec 😭😭

[@TheOnlyCommentThatMatters]

46:06 is the end of the emergency service rant, ISYN.

[@nursenitz]

I have been obsessed with this case for years! So happy that you guys picked it up & are covering it.

[@whalechief]

my first thought with the hair photo 1:00:05 is that she thought something (bug?) was in her hair and the other girl, with no light, took a close up photo to make sure there wasnt a bug in her hair--thats what i would first think of the photo bc if i were in that situation, paranoia would kick in with all the stress, anxiety, and lack of sleep

[@Harris33-f5j]

I never even thought about that but you might be right

[@laurenvcouto]

Good point

[@katiemag34]

i also immediately thought checking for a bug as well!

[@carolpetra1396]

Ohh I think you're right!!!

[@lulady4614]

that’s what I think I would of done if I thought I felt a bug in my hair

[@jaelpyykonen7243]

As a professional photographer, as soon as I saw the hair pic it was clear to me that that photo has been taken of a person who's lying face down on the ground. But I must admit, the hair looked styled and clean which is pretty bizarre taken the circumstances... I think the other photos were taken to see the surroundings, maybe in a state of shock or panic. It must've been pretty horrific to stumble in the dark, alone, hungry and afraid 😔 May these two souls rest in peace💛

[@sweetarts389]

Man I love your true crime episode but I feel bad the one girl was so combative with josh and it really messed with the mood of the whole episode you could just tell he wasn’t to happy just every short.

[@nicoley4ever]

She babbled on way too long. I had to skip forward several minutes

[@ashleymariah841]

@@nicoley4everConsidering she is the researcher for their team she deserves a little more respect than that. She worked hard and knows her stuff.

[@MC32595]

@@wildflowerlywhen did she say it was?

[@Cinnamarollin]

@@wildflowerlywell Kendall and Josh enjoy having her input and want them to engage.

[@kristinleigh7445]

I fully agree with Josh about the 112/911 calls. I'd do the same thing in their situation. I think they were pretty smart and one of them had some kind of mountaineering experience, and could keep level even through beginning to panic. I obviously wasn't there so I can't know that, it's just what I get from the little I know about them and their situation, and what I believe I'd do if I were them.

[@joshlilly2600]

One thing to keep in mind: people do really strange, unnecessary, and often stupid things in a life threatening situation when they are scared.

[@karapluemer2531]

Not to mention starving, dehydrated and exhausted.

[@nancybradberry3770]

It breaks my heart knowing that Chris was so homesick😢 I wonder if part of that was her intuition that something bad was about to happen 💔

[@JustBrookesss]

Yes 😭 This.

[@pauladiaz7101]

I had the exact same thoughts

[@TaylorRose04]

I really think the screen shots are intentional. On an iPhone 4 it’s so hard to accidentally take a screenshot while turning it off. The new phones are different, having to hold both power button and volume button, the same thing as the screen shot. The old phones were to click the home button and lock button quickly while just holding the lock button to power off. That’s just my opinion ❤

[@Crisk1467]

We love you Julia thank you for working so hard to bring us these episodes ❤

[@meh3369]

Im not saying dont let her interject, but just stating her theory once is ok. We have ears.

[@richardwilsonavena]

Mile Higher does the best most thorough evaluation I have seen for so many cases they cover. They leave no stone unturned!!! GREAT JOB!!!

[@isisgc7254]

I’m from Panama and everyone in Chiriqui truly believes they were killed by the son of the turist guide with his 5 friends. But they have powerful connections in the area

[@Tatertotrocks]

Can you explain more about why?

[@i_wouldprefer_not_to1196]

The Lost in Panama podcast covers this theory quite compellingly.

[@heyitssarah7545]

@@i_wouldprefer_not_to1196 Thank you for this! I’ll give it a listen

[@ancientmage2669]

I live in bqt and can tell you how creepy Feliciano is

[@Zuzan333]

Can you elaborate please?

[@itsLindsayJean]

Honestly cannot imagine how terrifying their ordeal was...those poor girls. May they RIP.

[@RitaJ738]

I think when they first started calling’911’ is when one of them got hurt and then one thing after the other started and unfortunately kept getting worse.. so sad. Thank you all for your hard work

[@ashleybarkhimer5344]

I think they called after they felt the aftershock from the earthquake. Maybe one got hurt/they fell off the path. After realizing they had no service and off the path tried to either go back or find higher ground.

[@MegaKaz22]

What i find really odd is that if the camera was there only source of light, then why wouldn't they use it every night? Especially the first night when it got dark, and they tried to make their way back to the trail. Also, if they had a flash on the canon camera, isn't it much better to use a video with a flash instead of taking pictures to get an idea of surroundings? Also these girls seem to write detailed diaries and there isnt a single picture or a video of them recording the events that took place. There are a lot of odd events that aren't clear-cut, as you guys are suggesting.

[@Kathrineped]

It is truly amazing how much good quality content you post on all your channels multiple times a week. I am sick these days and you really bring up my mood, when I can't leave the bed.

[@Beth-mi2hf]

Def agree

[@shannonhadfield7482]

I just hope that the girls passed at the same time. How horrible for one to witness their friend pass and live on for an undetermined amount of time alone and lost... Truly heartbreaking.

[@LibbyinTexas]

They did not pass at the same time - one lived days after the other

[@LibbyinTexas]

We just don’t know which one lived the longest

[@shannonhadfield7482]

@@LibbyinTexas how is that known?

[@taylordudley6592]

@@shannonhadfield7482i’m assuming because of that photo kris… believing she had pass already

[@kimberdion7367]

Watched this several days ago and I’m still thinking about these poor girls, they must’ve been so scared 😢

[@ElizabethButters1111]

I think you have to keep in mind that they had gone DAYS without food or water (that we know of) so I personally think that one of them made the stick with red plastic on it as a marker to let people know where they were but in that moment didn’t think to anchor it because they’ve got to be EXHAUSTED.

[@xsullengirlx]

I kept waiting for them to bring that up too. Even 24 hours without sleep, very little food and water, with lots of sun exposure and strenuous walking, PLUS major anxiety/panic... anyone would start to feel the effects. After a few days you'd start to lose your mind, it would be so difficult.

[@merj15]

I’ve never heard of this case before and it’s such an interesting and truly heartbreaking case. Regarding the bra- I agree with the ladies on taking it off, but I was told in a outdoor safety class that a bra can be a great filter for water and it’s stuck with me for some reason. My first thought was that they took them off to possibly filter water and that may have been why there was water left in the water bottle when the backpack was found. It’s also interesting that the places where the pictures were taken (especially the ones with the red plastic bags, the cliff, and the mirror) were never found. I think that could give a lot of insight into what kind of accident, if any, could have happened. I think it’s also 100% possible that there was no accident. The most likely scenario to me is that they simply got very lost and turned around somehow, decided to either follow the river or make camp and stay close for fresh water, went until they couldn’t anymore and passed away there. When the rain fell (it’s wet season) they were washed into the river along with their things and unfortunately decomposed there. Thank you for the awesome case coverage!!

[@b_sus87]

Agree with everything you said! Too many other podcasters and news stories have sensationalized this story to make it sound nefarious, but the accident is by and large the most likely scenario.

[@hometownsmile1780]

yeah unfortunately I think they have passed away due to the harsh conditions of the jungle

[@0seadragon0]

I'm wondering if the bra thing is cultural. I would assume that those asked in regards ( I'm assuming in Holland? ) live in a cooler climate where wearing a bra may not be as uncomfortable. Thoughts?

[@DaniqueEmiliaSteinfeld]

​@@0seadragon0 I'm from the Netherlands and I'm not sure if it's cultural. I never take my bra of untill it's bedtime. Most of the time I'm not uncomfortable, but I think that's because I have smaller boobs and I have the right size of bra. About the weather.. it's probably not as humid in The Netherlands, and in winter it's pretty cold. But in the summer it can get very warm and sort of humid as well. But not nearly as humid as over there, I would think.

[@DaniqueEmiliaSteinfeld]

​@@0seadragon0..also, I know a lot of girls who told me they would take of their bra's as soon as they get home. But most women wouldn't go out in public without a bra on.

[@HRae87]

It's weird to me that they'd say the girls were smart for moving around so much to get a signal. Isn't it hiking 101 to NOT move as soon as you realize you're lost?

[@agnediciuniene9861]

Inchworm didn't move and died yards away from the trail. 🤷🏼‍♀️

[@Nitetythree]

I believe someone was taking them to other location and whenever they could they call to emergency

[@orangeheart9399]

There is something sinister about this case - difficult to explain. My gut tells me they were scared and someone or something was watching them. They were very scared

[@mehwish7558]

Bingo

[@Amberlynn364]

As far as the photos go, I have heard of hikers using a digital camera with flash not to see the path in front of them with the short flash, but to look at the photos afterwards and see their surroundings. I’ve heard of someone who did this with a cave to make sure an animal isn’t inside that could hurt them when seeking shelter. I’m thinking they could have been looking around to see somewhere to rest, or maybe if they heard something that scared them and they were checking their surroundings.

[@iamgem]

Thats such a good point and honestly so sad to think about. Just imagine to sheer terror of being lost itself but not only that, its completely dark and there are so many animals that could kill you. When your body is in fear, your senses become amplified. Every little noise probably made them so paranoid.

[@0seadragon0]

​@@iamgem I was wondering why wild animals weren't mentioned as a possible culprit.

[@hotpinkthread]

@@0seadragon0exactly, they were in a tropical jungle, jaguars and huge snakes all over the place.

[@rickyricardo9710]

why would they only do that after an entire week had passed

[@tracyklassen1804]

Someone mentioned that maybe they took pictures every night, then deleted them so they had room for more pictures the next night. Could also explain why there was that missing photo

[@Harvestxdeath69]

WE LOVE YOU JULIA. YOUR WORK IS IMPECCABLE! DON'T LISTEN TO THE HATERS ❤

[@thatwitchychick2717]

Omg this case lives in my brain rent free. I'm so glad to see you two covering it.

[@pkaur93]

I agree with Josh, they definitely seemed to be trying to conserve battery, I just don’t think they would panic-dial at that point…

[@Whosthatgirl21]

Yea, but she can give her opinion. He doesn’t have to be a dick about it.

[@ASAMB12]

@@Whosthatgirl21 he wasn't confrontational at all. I think he wasn't sure whether she had got the whole gist of the argument he was making(the calls failing because there was no signal, one of them having experience with mountaineering, etc.) which is why he kept elaborating. She, on the other hand, kept questioning his theory without any other reason than her believe that she'd act differently. she never gave an alternative explanation as to why they actually did not frantically try calling different numbers. it's understandable that he didn't understand what she was trying to say and kept trying to bring his own point across.

[@brittneymartinez5257]

Exactly!!!! Josh is spot on and seems the most logical and reasonable. Why would anyone continue to call when your phone clearly has no bars? They were moving around and conserving battery life

[@ashleydickerson1905]

I had a mountain of laundry to get through today and this was the perfect thing to help pass the time! I think about this case often and it’s absolutely heartbreaking every single time. I can’t imagine what they went through and what their families experienced in the aftermath and are still experiencing to this day.

[@STate-sw9ld]

If they were taking photos, and then knew their time was coming to an end, why didnt they record a video for their families telling them what happened and with last messages? It wasnt clear if their camera battery ever went dead.

[@jorjavandijk1343]

I was thinking this. But I thought maybe they didn’t want to record messages to not upset families, never could know what they were thinking unfortunately:( I wonder if they had hope until they got gravely injured and didn’t want to record after that ( or couldn’t )

[@kristing1350]

I thought this too. You have to remember they are a week in with no food, not much water, infection in their bodies. I don’t think their brains were fully thinking. Trying to just survive

[@sophiemcconnell]

Maybe their camera didn’t have the ability to record video and photos would feel too scary flash in your face so using it to see rather than blind you retinas makes more sense in panic mode

[@holliecrawford2647]

Only reason I would only call when I thought I could.. not record a film.. not flat out text family.. friends… if most the time someone was watching me.. maybe someone had them?

[@holliecrawford2647]

Who? Who would have them? Who is in a jungle.. out that far ? Knows the paths.. people growing very profitable druuuugaaaas

[@sydneycp]

A few days to finish !? Y’all must not know I have no life and have been binge watching this channel for days and will be finishing this video in one sitting 😂 love you guys keep doing what you do !! 🫶

[@angiesikorski219]

Josh, Kendall, & Jenelle having a conversation is always the best!

[@sargassum6190]

Yes… those THREE!

[@rach198]

Lmao

[@OhLookYouFoundCristalina]

This is passive aggressive AF , it accomplishes nothing positive

[@sargassum6190]

@@OhLookYouFoundCristalina And what positivity came from you posting this very obvious observation? You feel better? Superior?

[@Fay23088]

@@OhLookYouFoundCristalina It’s just their opinion 🤷

[@tarahouse6130]

Y'all spent so much time going back and forth over the 211/911 phone call attempts. It got really repetitive. Not being an asshole but it just got old. Love the show

[@desireearmstrong2291]

I think the hair photo could've been them checking for a bug. I think it's so sad Feliciano has had accusations against him when he helped so much to try to find them. I've looked into this case so much, and I never knew how much he did. he deserves more credit.

[@lavendercoldbrew]

Yeah, I think they were checking her head for something. Maybe a bug or maybe she had a sore spot or bumped it and was checking to see if there was a visible wound.

[@imtae5577]

Good point 🤔

[@ildisiri]

Yeah poor Feliciano that has a few accusations of inappropriate behavior against him and also during the dutch documentary he told his nephew to "stop speaking, dont tell them" at some point during the hike. Poor Feliciano that has family members in local gangs, such a poor old fella, why do they accuse him so much..

[@Andrein.3237]

@@ildisiriwhy are you being a sarcastic ass ?

[@jennaroy894]

Feliciano was the only one looking for them! Absolutely crazy there’s any speculations about him.

[@alysialeonardo942]

Julia, you did an amazing job on this episode!! I loved hearing your input

[@knoxy9851]

I’m so happy you covered this case! It’s one of the most horrifying to me due to how desperate and doomed they must have felt. This case breaks my heart to pieces. After hearing so much information I’m glad you cleared it up and now strongly believe they got lost. Thank you for shedding light.

[@ThemunchkinShortney]

What about the potential of warding off predators? The flash and sounds from the camera could have been their only protection. Running through the jungle at night is a huge challenge and would have caused a lot of attention from curious predators.

[@JessicaRodriguez-zy5gz]

I don’t think they were running anywhere

[@melissadavenport5176]

I could see why somebody might try to use that as a form of protection, but I really hope that they didn’t. I’ve lived near the mountains, most of my life, and although this doesn’t necessarily help now, maybe it can help somebody in the future. flash is not a good means of protection. With most animals, it will actually attract them. The best thing to do is to always keep pepper spray with you, and especially if you’re worried about large cats and other predators because their nose is so sensitive that if there is one coming at you, and you spray it you have incapacitated them

[@missyidontgiveacrap9939]

Yea, I don’t think they were either….they have been out there for days already and used it after 8 days. So I’m sure there were other animals between day 1 and day 7

[@albertravey4193]

The photos are all taken of the same place, overlooking a river. They shot nearly a hundred in the space of 3 hours. They were almost certainly trying to get attention. Maybe they saw a camp fire in the distance.@@JessicaRodriguez-zy5gz

[@rachelsolives]

What caused curiosity from predators was death…they were not mobile at the time of the night photos. Most animals are scared of walking humans and will hide/run.

[@mckensieshiner6945]

Thank you for telling us the truth about this story. This one always stuck with me because of the false information that others have included when discussing this case. I really appreciate you guys!

[@paulcarfantan6688]

Out of curiosity, can you mention some of the false information ?

[@chloatron]

Love love love the deep dive into theories! This is what's missing for the Asha Degree case - I know you've covered it on your own channel Kendall but I'd love to hear a deeper exploration of the theories of what happened to her.

[@yellowhalo444]

Check out the crime weekly episodes on asha degree’s case!

[@gingerlee726]

Thats the little girl who left in the middle of the night and they found her back pack wrapped and buried years later? That case haunts me. I need to know! I think her case and summer wells are two cases that the victim could still be alive.

[@Noise_floorxx]

@@gingerlee726wouldnt she be near 30 if not older?

[@FTH1723]

​@@gingerlee726I'm curious to why you think she's still alive? I hope she is too, but it's just been so long and she was so young. do you think someone has her and is keeping her alive? I hope that's not her reality:(

[@sargassum6190]

@@gingerlee726Summer Wells? That little girl’s mother knows she is dead.

[@aishagladden]

I just attended a meeting at my middle schooler’s school for a 9 day out of the country trip. Afterwards, a parent and i was discussing our safety concerns. It was meant for me to see this!

[@vanessaandersonjl]

My only question is if they had a camera that could take videos why didn’t they take a video saying they were lost?

[@justinstone4476]

People behave irrationally in desperate situations

[@jski718]

Right, no goodbye videos or messages of any type. Very strange.

[@rickyricardo9710]

@@justinstone4476 when the desperate situation lasts for 8 days and you have nothing to do and you end up using the camera anyways...no, no they don't

[@justinstone4476]

@@rickyricardo9710 Thanks for sharing your opinion. I disagree. cheers

[@Nobody-s824]

So sad these women were just living their lives to the fullest and they didn't survive. I hope it is eventually solved. Thanks for covering this case.

[@teaghann]

I’m sending this now so I don’t forget it, but I wonder if the 100 pictures in a short amount of time at night were because someone was afraid, or heard something in the jungle and didn’t have their cellphone or any light, so they were using the camera flash to get some idea of what was around them. Or just to attempt to scare an animal away.

[@ERSwanger]

Yall have done an awesome job on this, thank you Julia for all your hard work and thank you everyone else for doing such a great job!