Dark Souls Lore | Light, Dark, and the Abyss (or Why Kaathe Was Right)

[@borisdaanimal4014]

i think its ironic that Gwyn unnaturally prolonged his reign by denying the Dark, something synonymous with want. despite being afraid of humans, emotions and ambitions, he acted with peerless want in trying to secure his own ambitions

[@Nightksa1995]

and thus in ds2, kiln of the first flame where gwyn wanted to keep his age, was renamed to the throne of want...

[@souffrantdepine3762]

Remember what was said: "Even as the flame and the power of light grow, so too does the dark. The greater the light, the darker the shadow it casts." In this way, we understand that by taking so much of the power and knowledge of the flame into himself, Gwyn also took into himself immeasurable amounts of dark. From the flame Gwyn absorbed both the light that he wanted, and the humanity that he feared, and in doing so was made a man, made a hollow.

[@Quandry1]

Most of Gwyn's deeds were driven by want. From raising himself above everybody else, to the destruction of the Dragons in his war, to the linking of the Flame to keep his reign instead of allowing the fated legacy of another to take over.

[@grizzlymelon8376]

Was it ambition tho, or just a intrinsic urge to survive, and preserve everything he knew and help create? Of all the things, including Death itself (Nito), humanity was seen as something different althogether. I honestly think it was less ambition and more fear.

[@a.p.6580]

@@souffrantdepine3762 so Gwyn was actually the first hollow?

[@xdan-]

We are born of the Dark. Made men by the Dark. Undone by the Dark.

[@Berzärkr]

Fear the dark

[@fudnik89]

Grant us eyes... Grant us eyes!

[@doubleru]

^ That's why Fire Keepers are blind and pyromancers wear blindfolds.

[@we2e2ew65]

As you once did, for the vacuous Rom.

[@zoeygohlke4230]

Seek the dark. Let us pray, let us wish..

[@ISoloYouRelax]

If Miyazaki wants us to stop obsessing over Dark Souls he shouldn't have made it as well as he did.

[@the_scales]

*Truer words have never been spoken*

[@pawekoodziejczyk6781]

That’s how why we have dark souls 2 and 3

[@signoguns8501]

Has he actually said that, he wants us to stop obsessing?

[@petergraywolf6671]

Same could be said about the life, love and world you know ;) Beatiful illusion YET NO MATTER HOW BEATIFUL OR EXQUISIT A LIE REMAINS A LIE

[@keeganwullaert4996]

@@pawekoodziejczyk6781 hey those are both great games they just arent as amazing as the first so they seem bad because theyre always compared

[@ryanr.5158]

>"Hexes are an expression of human depravity" I could have told you that just from gameplay, no need to read item descriptions at all. Hexers are even more depraved than dex builds.

[@MamaTrixxieAsmr]

As someone who plays almost exclusively hex/hexer-hybrid builds Ouch

[@fabiansanchez7203]

⁠@@MamaTrixxieAsmrur a sick sick monster

[@TheLastSoundNL]

Interesting but I think you're not entirely correct. I think that mad Hollows aren't born from the dark, but rather darkness is absent from them entirely. Dark Souls really hammers down that you lose your humanity and eventually turn Hollow. They can't hold on to their humanity (or have a very little amount) so their body becomes emtpy and devoid, thus a Hollow. Humans have dark, fire and souls within them (maybe that's what you meant by born of the dark) but their origin as a Hollow "the natural state" comes from before light and dark were a concept born from nothingness or gray. From what I saw in dark souls is that both too much humanity and too little gives problems. Like Oolacile for too much and mad Hollows in Anor Londo for too little. Humans, with the help of their seal of fire lighting up their humanity, have a delicate balance that keep them from becoming monsterous. They only ones that seem to be able to have lots of humanity but still retain themselves are the Fire Keepers and the player character.

[@insertedgynamehere___969]

I disagree on the too much part. It seems the humanity of the people of Oolacile, going crazy was tied to Manus. Gough says they drove Manus mad. And Manus going mad drove the Humanity of Oolacile mad along with him.

[@Quandry1]

I'm of the opinion that Hollow being a natural state is actually from Gwyn. he so feared the dark he'd rather see Humanity drained of everything than for the Darkness to rise up. One of the things that I really noticed in this examination was that he missed a really big thing. Hollowing only happens after the Linking of the Flame and is a result of Gwyn's curse upon humanity to keep his power over them. And when you consider the Linking of the Flame causing the Hollowing and the Relinking of it hiding that fact for a time. Even things like the Wraith Knights start to make sense why they Rose up and were put down where they did. They rose up and were put down in Gwyn's own capital and the center of his power and their power was draining the humanity and thus the power from others. Even the religions and such that pop up that help push Gwyn's ideals in various ways. Some of them not being obvious about. As do Frampt and Kaaze. Deception is a real underlying theme of everything happening in the game. So it's very likely that Gwyn planted the ideas about Hollowing in humanity and how they wanted to stave it off so that they would keep powering his Linking of the Flame in fear of Hollowing instead of letting the flame fade and not feed on their power anymore.

[@insertedgynamehere___969]

@@Quandry1 makes sense that gwyn would do that

[@keeganwullaert4996]

hollowing isnt a human only trait we see it in gwyn and the nameless king

[@Total_Inertia]

God i could listen to Vendrick all day

[@wanderingbufoon]

You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it. Molded by it. I didn't see light until I was already undead, by then it was blinding - Manus to Artorias

[@lordxemanos739]

LMAO

[@abdullahirfan9991]

*proceeds to break his arm*

[@vgndx]

all i know is that i died in the first game

[@Murphio25]

lol, hey, you get some fanboys in the far-future (presumably).

[@dr.calibrations7984]

Artorias The Abysswalker You will never truely die my friend you live on in our hearts. And me and puppy Sif totally Ganked Manus.

How many times?

[@da-rj5cs]

Never died not once get gud noob

[@magnawaves]

Imagine dying in Dark Souls EVER LMAO

[@undeadelite]

the canonical ending of dark souls is stated right at the start of Dark souls 1 "but one day the flames will fade, and only dark will remain"

[@JoJoZaka]

no the canonical ending is at the dark age ending of DaS3. the flames flicker again after a long time. the cycle never ends

[@sakbromely]

@@JoJoZaka well I mean yes. The fire is naturally supposed to go out and humanity rules until the remaining embers join together and the first flame is borne again. That's what is suppose to happen but then Gwynn decided he'd rather skip over the AoD because why should he and his answer to the humans? And used himself to prolong the AoF and fudged everything up.

[@keeganwullaert4996]

@@JoJoZaka Well it'd actually be the ringed city at that rate

[@Kenos347]

@@JoJoZaka The flame will go out eventualy you can see the world being burned to ashes but in the end the flame will fade and finaly the age of dark will begin.

[@JARedwolf100]

Actually, Hollowing is a side effect of the curse of undeath for the humanity within all humans has been unnaturally linked to the first flame by being ignited. Hence why the accursed dark sign is a burning circle, it’s the humanity within all humans being set on fire and burning out. When the humanity is burned out, well...the poor undead being turns feral for they cannot remember being human. They’re nothing more then a wild animal being driven by instinct to hunt. I’m guessing that feeding on souls acts as treatment to prolong remembering being human but it’s not a cure.

[@wanderingbufoon]

His Shadow ive always thought its because they lose their will. Hollows are what all living things were aside of the dragons before the finding of the Lord Souls. Because Nito created the kindling ritual out of the bodies of dead people, it burns a little bit of their soul(s). The way that humans' soul work is that they naturally take the others souls in because every human has a piece of the dark soul. This is what made the bonfire ritual work for humans and why humans are the ones used for this sole purpose. It means that humans can comeback to life over and over again until the soul inside of them runs out and turn hollow. You do not necessarily go insane when you turn hollow. As shown with our character when being revived, we still have complete control over it and only until we have had enough of dying will we abandon our game, which is the equivalent of your character losing their sanity. How do i back this claim further? Well, Londor, the Land of Hollows, is such a place where hollows thrive. It is an actual community and the representative of the Sable Church, the three sisters, seem sane enough despite being hollow. Again, this can be undone by the firekeeper and simply gaining a dark soul. Of course the nature of that is by taking another's soul. In other words, killing. For example, our favorite Patches. Patches forgot who he was. He possibly had died and revived but lost his memory (like the whole thing where you have to regain your souls from your previous death). He just goes nuts if he doesnt recover it. Which means that one simply just have to lose their will. It doesnt mean you need to die or go hollow to go crazy. I think it is true of what you say about the dark sign. We revive at the bonfire and our soul is gone. We know that the bonfire is made out of people. It is a small scale recreation of what The Witch has done, which is to recreate the First Flame. This is further backed by the nature of our character in DS3. We are embered. We never go hollow as we are linked to the First Flame since we had linked it before. We are revived once more but instead of just a small fire (dark sign), we are completely engulfed in the fire. Our character is one of many characters who finished the previous and current games and possibly even NG+. This is why our character can never hollow and only turn into ash, hence Ashen One. Another one i would like to note is the wedding ceremony ritual. It is exactly the same as the bonfire. However, instead of the light coming out, it is the dark. It is also similar to what the gods do to their fallen comrade such as Ornstein and Smough or Nameless and King of Storm.

[@keeganwullaert4996]

Didnt gwyn go hollow?

[@thecatinthehatwithabat9903]

@@keeganwullaert4996 yup

[@BimdoeDoll]

You know what? fuck light and the dark, I'm gonna hang out with dragons!

[@rpg6612]

Stay true to the path of the dragons, and you'll even get to be one, one day.

[@bennyace3195]

Nameless king be like

[@ZoldyckYT]

If become the dark lord, i Gonna make a strong age, and surpasse gwyn in every aspect

[@cheefqueef6494]

Thanks, Paarthurnax

[@theworldoffun8997]

​@@rpg6612literally Ornstein

[@yitzhakkornbluth2554]

One thought I've had: The "corrupting" nature of the Abyss (as seen in Oolacile) has an analog in the corruption caused by Chaos. It may very well be that when any of the Lord Souls gains too much concentration or power in the absence of the others, it results in harm, be it the Abyss, Chaos, or the Silver Knights being burnt by the Flame. This might also explain why Alsanna, unlike Manus and his other "children", is good: Her proximity to the Flame of Chaos meant that they weakened each other to some extent, and while her power was not enough to have much effect on the Flame of Chaos, it diluted her Darkness to the point that it was no longer harmful. If this is true, then that means that Kaathe's goals in Oolacile and New Londo were wrong after all. It also suggests that Gwyn's act, rather than being evil, was simply a mistake in that he sought to revive the Flame with one soul rather than all four. (Aldia would probably disagree on that last point, but there's no guarantee that he, or any of the other characters mentioned in the video, was actually right.)

[@opprobrious2776]

I'm not sure if hollows are actually humanity's natural state; but from the time before the Lord Souls were found, I imagine that the pygmies (progenitors of humanity) were in a state similar to a hollow, if not exactly the same; but after the souls were claimed and the descendants of the Pygmy came to hold the Dark Soul, that became their natural form. So, I don't think that a hollow is their natural form, per se, but their ancient form.

[@theonewhoismany8072]

Our true form is that of a pygmy wich are akin to hollows but sane. But after Gwyn branded the humans with the dark sign wich seals the darkness of humanity and supresses our true power like Aldia said "men assumed a transient form". Transient or temporary and that is our form before becoming hollow. Men was wrongly shepperded to rely on the fire of the begging and on the light even tho we are children of the dark soul and our power is in the abyss.

[@RexellentRed]

Fear not the dark my friend

[@robertmattesky6453]

Fate Wrecks and let the feast, begin.

[@LSB44446]

One met the Dark with learning.

[@x.arybdis502]

LoganSoulsBorne4 but learned his knowledge was wanting.

[@sverker7826]

The world began without knowledge, and without knowledge will it end.

[@x.arybdis502]

Sverker does not this ring clear and true?

[@mrtoxicwasteland]

What could possibly await us? That line always gives me chills

[@Manfromthenorth0551]

In Ds3 I think the lord of hollows is the evil ending because you're making the same mistake as Gwyn wanted light to be eternal, now you're making dark eternal. Which is also a sin, because its interfering with the cycle. A new age of fire must come, but with you as the dark lord you will do everything you can to stop it. Falling into the same pit as Gwyn. That's why The End of Fire is the good ending to me. The fire fades peacefully, as it was always meant to do and darkness gently fills the world. And one day the fire will return, The Firekeeper foresees this. The cycle continues, such is the theme of Dark Souls.

[@x.arybdis502]

Matthew Hilliker but the lord of hollows ending is not the age of dark because flame is still burnüng within our character. So its not the dark age, its not the fire age, its something diffrent. Thats why I like it.

[@LSB44446]

Emre Kara It's sort of the Age of Man ending. Something humans have never had in the world of Dark Souls is power over the world.

[@x.arybdis502]

burning*

[@dgcf3426]

BRK what does that have to do with dark souls. looks to me like you are a racist

[@112523]

but you are breaking the cycle. that was all you did, you broke the cycle at the end. you became the dark lord that should have existed after the age of fire

[@marajade2932]

You think darkness is your ally, I was born in it, molded by it, i didnt see the light till i was a man and by then it was nothing but blinding._.

[@TheSpicyLeg]

The problem I have with the dark being the collective emotional expression of beings is that it leaves the light as the opposite. Beings of light such as Gwyn would only seek equilibrium or non interference because they would be incapable of having desires. Desire is the root motivation of beings - desire to live, to build, to attain, etc. Obviously, Gwyn desired not only the endless continuation of the Age of Fire, but also made war on the dragons in his desire to build his kingdom. The mere act of splitting his soul would be impossible for a being without desire, let alone using himself as fuel in the kiln. If is the dark, then, that should represent entropy, it fits. The dark is entropy as evidenced by the Hollows. They don’t die, they don’t create, they don’t feel, they just exist. What if the Abyss is simply what happens when a being of dark goes awry with desire? Desire being antithetical to entropy, Manus desired the broken pendant. What if Gwyn’s crime was not seeking endless fire, but tilting the natural balance of humanity too far in one direction? What if the natural balance within humans was equal parts change and entropy? If so, they would be born, yet immediately start to die. They would build, but also destroy. They would represent the disparity in all things, but if they were shown an ideal they weren’t meant to have themselves (such as the everlasting existence of Gwyn and the Gods) then the desire to have that would be represented by the corruption of the dark. What if instead of trying to continue the age of fire unnaturally Gwyn was instead trying to rectify the imbalance caused by the dark going wild from humanity’s desires to avoid entropy?

[@music79075]

I would be interested to see which endings were chosen more often or favored in Japan, America and Europe so we could see the difference

[@jacobhoover1654]

How do you account or adjust for people just choosing the easiest ending?

[@music79075]

@@jacobhoover1654 I don't

[@celeridad6972]

It would be interesting indeed but the nature of the the games (specially the 3rd) is such that it would be meaningless. Most people finish the game without understanding a thing about it and rely on channels like this for explanations. Most people don't have hours of time to look for secrets, decipher codes and make obscure connections.

[@ineedmoneysp]

The fire looks different too. In Dark Souls 1 when Gwyn and you link the flame it is huge and bright and fills the room ur in but in Dark Souls 3 it barely consumes you. Just a shadow of the flame it once was getting small and small with each linking.

[@JoeKerr420]

Fear not the MitchL my friend, let the Lore Begin

[@JoeNeutrino]

What I really want to know is what happens after the endings. Specifically, what's the difference in outcome between the End of Fire and Lord of Hollows endings? Is the curse of the undead/the seal of fire broken? Does that mean that people will no longer resurrect or will they just not go hollow any more? The more I think about it the less it makes sense.

[@takingiteasy17]

We turn off our gaming systems and go outside, questioning our place in this world. Then we realize that reality is lame compared to dark souls and we dive back in for NG+.

[@LorisNoKami]

Your comment is pretty much analagous of the game itself. Such is our curse.

[@Yal_Rathol]

here's the problem. we know that usurping the fire breaks the cycle, because the eclipse turns white and because no other cycle is possible now that you've become the father of the abyss and the soul of cinder at the same time. but here's the question, what does that actually mean? by the time you hit the lord of hollows ending, the world has been mashed into about 10 square miles of crushed stone and solid ash. does lord of hollows undo that, or do they just continue the world as-is? what sort of age does this create? the only hint we ever get is aldritch seeing the coming "age of deep waters". does that mean the lord of hollows being born turns lothric into water world?

[@TheSchoolyD]

End of fire lets dark onto the world, but flame will come again, as fire keeper tells us. So we just let nature do its thing with the cycles (flame will just appear again like it did the first time). But dark doesn't exist without flame so WHAT THE FUCK MIYAZAKI? What are we actually allowing into the world and does that mean dragons are in power now? Is age of dark and ancients the same thing? And what lord of hollow ending even supposed to represent? So i ate the fire/most of the world's leftover souls, so flame is now me? Can i be killed? Can someone take it inside himself again? Did i just destroy a flame by sucking it deep into dark signs? What the hell is even going on in this game? I hope that answered your question.

[@JoeNeutrino]

Thank you all for the responses.

[@BentWaterZ]

Good video! Did I hear... a dog? "fear not the dog my friend, and let the review begin" "Dog Souls"

[@c.j.velvet5985]

In bloodBorn you gain enlightenment and move higher up into different plains of existence and understand the world around you in different ways, dark souls is the opposite, in dark souls the world is moving down around you, down deeper into itself into new self discovery and into darker places.

[@joshw3590]

Brilliant video! Even now it still intrigues me how they took on the concept of light and dark and what it means to the world of Dark Souls. Truly embracing the Dark to me has always meant stepping into the unknown, as we’ve never seen it beyond the introduction cut scene in the age of ancients. I guess in the perfect world we’d embrace light & dark as equal and not choose one over the other. I’ve always thought of the Abyss as being a reaction to the suppressing of Dark.

[@Tracker947]

If the Firekeepers can see the truth why does Anastacia beg us to link the fire?

[@hopebringer2348]

Because she couldn't. She didn't have the eyes of the first Firekeeper and was blind to the truth.

[@UnholyWrath3277]

Super late reply but she'd also been conditioned to think that is the only way and the right way. Also "and then I can die... A human" so she truly believed it would end her suffering

[@borbitol]

A very in-depth analysis. Thank you for that, I never stop being amazed by the depth of philosophy and design of Dark Souls.

[@rcurl44]

Holy shit, this is one of your best videos. Keep up the good work my dude.

[@corwin32]

Holy crap, man! That was the single best discussion of dark I have ever heard/read great job!

[@jojolafrite90]

The dark makes me think of "emptiness" in physics... Vacuum. Because vacuum is EVERYTHING but nothingness. It's everything that hasn't been observed yet or what isn't observed at the moment, rather.

[@nonusbusinissus5632]

For the concept of temperature you only need the concept of heat... what you refer to as cold, is the lack of heat. Similarly with darkness, it is not a concept of its own, its merely an absence of light...

[@danielshets97]

This lore vid was probably the most intriguing one I've ever watch great work as always Mitch I love how deep u get into the ideas, definitely shed some LIGHT on the topic :p

[@urameshitrev1851]

This certainly did was an insightful look into the lore of the DS Series, Great Video. I also agree DS2's Scholar Ending is also my favorite ending.

[@matteoindelicato6744]

One of the best and most complete dark souls' lore videos i've ever seen.

[@LastProtagonist]

Hey man, nice video. It's got a lot of good insights, and I enjoyed it.

[@stevenholt5034]

Yet another spectacular lore video Mitch... Always happy to see your vids

[@erikenn]

Mitch you slipped. Gwyn split his soul just before he left to link the Flame. He gave one piece to the 4 Kings of New Londo. Gwyn did not flood New Londo.

[@Valkahike]

I read 'spilt' and along with your previous sentence I imagine Gwyn spilling his soul juice and accidentally giving it to the 4 kings like 'ah shit whatever' and then going to link the flame. Kinda like spilling your water on the way back from the kitchen at night when you get thirsty.

[@keeganwullaert4996]

Is there anything to show gwyn split his soul right before linking the flame?

[@demonzabrak]

@@keeganwullaert4996 here: Soul of The Four Kings In-Game Description Soul of one of the Four Kings, who fell to the Dark. A fragment of a Lord Soul discovered at the dawn of the Age of Fire. Lord Gwyn recognized the foresight of these four great leaders of New Londo, and granted them their ranks and the fragments of a great soul. Although this is not a full Lord Soul, it can still satiate the Lordvessel. The Great Lord Greatsword In-Game Description Greatsword born from the soul of Gwyn, Lord of Cinder. As bearer of the ultimate soul, Gwyn wielded the bolts of the sun, but before linking the fire, divided that power amongst his children, and set off with only this great sword as his companion.

[@keeganwullaert4996]

@@demonzabrak Yea that would do it. Although that just makes me wonder even more because i thought gwyn brought most of the black knights with him and then they got burned up when he linked the fire.

[@ChepsGaming]

1:39 I thought for a sec that I needed to readjust my glasses when I looked back at the screen. Then I noticed the background was not blurry. It fucked with me, lol

[@peterfthagn3646]

I didn't expect this, but your video really brought some disclosure on the nature of dark and the world ifself in my opinion. Thank you Mitch

[@robertw8041]

A strong return indeed!

[@OfficialChrissums]

Great great video. Id love to see a part two if you see any additional support or evidence. No pressure though im sure youve got some neat stuff cooking,

[@ultradude5410]

Wow, this is a fantastic video, one of my favorite pieces of Dark Souls related content I've seen.

[@talandar5773]

I really like these videos because some of the philosophical implications are applicable IRL.

[@danielantony1882]

I mean... you Are right about the Dark, but Humans cannot exist without the light. Because they are reflections of it. If you live in a world without light then you will simply hollow. Because you are unable to see and find motivation. And what that means is that Abyss wins. Gwyn was most likely afraid of *that.* He wasn't afraid of the Dark. He was afraid of the Abyss. That's why they made the Seal of Fire(Aka the Darksign). Because he didn't want humans to be beckoned to the sins of the Abyss that you talked about. Gwyn was desperate. He knew nothing about the world. He only acted and made decisions according to what he saw. And what he saw was not the most pleasant thing. The Lust of power, Envy and Hatred that he saw in humans during the War against Dragons was what shocked him. Gwyn got his Eyes Opened and saw what the Abyss is capable of. Humans used the Abyss. Gwyn was shocked. He did not know what to do. Only the Pygmy Lords were the most sane. That's why Gwyn linked the fire. He was desperate. If only Gwyn was able see the future like Fire Keepers. Maybe then he would accept the Dark Until the appearance of the next Flame. Maybe Lords and Gods like Gwyn were supposed to be the Heralds of light in the Ages of Dark? Maybe that's what their nature was? who knows.

[@nunull6427]

Is it just me, or do soul dregs look alot like humanities(more specifically, the in pain rite of kindling type) The aldritch faithful dreg item states something about the dregs being the heaviest part of humanity and that they sink to the bottom, forming a "bed" of sorts. Very reminiscent of the bed of chaos both in what was required and the end result.

[@sakbromely]

The dregs are stagnant humanity.

[@FortressOfGamer]

Another amazing video dude. Your interpretation of the lore is simply amazing.

[@LSB44446]

Everytime I was about to type a question, you answered it. Awesome.

[@RookFrjosa]

alright, you got me. +1 extra Dark Soul to your subscriber list. I thin that all endings in DS3 are canon because they each present to you the cost or even the consequence of your chosen path/decision. You need all of the endings present to understand the scope, the cost and the value of each.

[@music79075]

That combined with canonically having different timelines and worlds means that each one happens

[@samturnbull3601]

Criminally, CRIMINALLY underviewed video. I thought it was great, and very insightful.

[@0NodMan0]

*_I praise the Sun every night..._*

[@TalkingVidya]

saving this video for when I finish the ringed City. keep up the good work

[@isaacsteele7986]

this brings the way of white from dark souls 1 into a hole new light. I always assumed that they hunted undead to be rid of them, but what makes much more sense is that they wan to free the humanity inside them. consider leeroy, as a description states (the way of white produced their first undead) why would they produce undead, only to hunt it? to free the humanity

[@jav13erven0mous7]

Excelent work. You gave new ways to understand the lore of the game, thanks.

[@pikkozoikum8523]

3:34 That's what confuses me. The Dark Souls looks like any other soul, just smaller. Born from the fire. Humanity is a fragment of the Dark Soul, thus humanity is part of the fire and not of the dark?

[@arczer2519]

to be sad in the end both Kaathe and Frampt motivations can be similar. as in DSI dark lord ending: "Let Kaathe, and Frampt, serve Your Highness." so that much "Friend" to lord Gwyn

[@grovescharles92]

Holy s*** that's why the FireKeepers are kept at The shrine. They are a draw for infinite humanity. Collect them all the combine their power

[@core-nix1885]

Pretty sure the dead fire keepers are used as estus. In DS1, the Dark Tales say they live to protect the flame and die to protect it further. The estus flask itself appears to have the pained visage of a woman on its neck. Flasks are reinforced with fire keeper souls in DS1. This leads me to believe flasks are produced by transposing the dark soul in some horrendous way.

[@yugiohculture1]

May the dark shine you're way my fellow hollows

[@Tullerman]

19:00 - Perfect description of how we run away and hide from our Fears, Guilt, Shame & Grief or how we completely refuse to admit our Lies and let go of our illusions. Rather we chase distractions in whatever form possible

[@Tullerman]

Love how you bring up fear later, great video :)

[@Nawor1996]

i'm inclined to say then the a Lord of Hollows must rise, for how else can humanity truly be prepared for the coming age of dark? While letting the fire die with the help of the Fire Keeper is what is needed to rejuvenate the world from ashes, most of humanity is not ready for it and will most likely find a way to resist. While it can't be expressed in game, I believe the "canon" (for as little as that means) path of the series is Link, Walk Away, Age of Hollows into Age of Dark. To heal the world the Unkindled must ally themselves with Yuria for as long as it takes to show the world that the dark is not to be feared. Once they have completed that they must overcome themselves and return to the Fire Keeper. Once reunited with her the two of them can finally ease the fire into death on a world that is ready for The Dark.

[@michaelphillips2002]

Good stuff my man, keep it up!

[@LorisNoKami]

I was up and ready to label you as a Shitlord when you released that Hbomb 'rebuttal' but dude, this was fucking beautiful. Seriously fine work, skeleton.

[@andreiputinei8779]

You need to respect the fact that he didn't put any ads whatsoever

[@potentiallyRealWarrenGraham]

Thank you, recommended videos tab. Finally you've proven yourself.

[@gomer2813]

"And yet we seek it insatiably. Such is our fate." The point is that the Dark is not actually the true or right form of existence for man. Men naturally seek evolution, that is a part of nature.

[@aricksaxon1059]

Watchin this reminded me alot of Jerks Sans Frontieres video on 'The Bastards Curse' where he dives deep on the concept of Kegare throughout the SoulsBorne series, referencing Shinto and Japanese conceptions of corruption and stagnancy, and how it relates to the Dark and Vermin. Really great video! I remember it being huge in the community when it first came out (think even Vaati shouted it out) but I cant find it anywhere now? Not on JSFs channel anyway. If anyone knows the video Im talking about (opened with the Evangelists 'Cleanse the Bastards Curse'), what happened to it? where it is now? is it was even JSFs? please let me know, cause its driving me to Hollowing not having it, I NEED THAT SWEET INSIGHT!

[@TheProphet49]

Gwynn doesnt wipe out New Londo. Artorias and Oolacile are 200-300 years before dks1 starts and Gwynn was already cinder by Oolaciles time and the capital was largely abandoned. Also fantastic video.

[@Yal_Rathol]

TheProphet49 we don't know how long before DS1 artorias of the abyss takes place, we don't know exactly when gwyn started to burn, nor when the capital was abandoned.

[@TheProphet49]

www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/06/07/5-new-dark-souls-artorias-of-the-abyss-details/ Devs confirm events of Artorias DLC are roughly 300 years ago and Anor Londo is in such a state that they cant challenge even one ancient dragon any longer. At this point Gwyn has long sinced linked the First Flame.

[@JohnSmith-op3qj]

It's ironic how the comparatively worst iteration of Dark Souls (as said by many) have the most interesting ending of all. I'm all for the End of Fire and Lord of Hollows endings, but DS II nailed it with that unconventional third path. Though, one can argue that the Lord of Hollows ending was also unconventional. But still...beyond the scope of light, beyond the reach of dark. It's an interesting concept that opposes the cyclical nature of Dark Souls.

[@music79075]

The third path though was just walking away from the Kiln.

[@SardonicSoul]

Such as the fire was corrupted by the linking of the flame, such was the darkness, becoming a place called the abyss.^^

[@AlexBermann]

My interpretation is close to yours, yet I differ in a few ways. Neither light nore darkness are inherently evil. However, Gwyn believes so and in this fallacy, he condemned the world. The natural state of the world is that fire creates disparity until it burns out. Gwyn and the Witch of Izalith perverted both light and darkness. Gwyn fought against the darkness, robbing it of its place in the world. The excess dark turned destructive against existence itself: the Abyss was created. Likewise, the witch perverted light by creating an artificial primordial flame - which just gave birth to monsters. I also interpret the undead curse differently. What lifts this curse temporarily is humanity - an expression of the dark. In simple terms: the true hollow are creatures of pure light. As soon as they give up on their desires, humans become hollow. So where do the primordial serpents fit in? I'd say that they are truly evil. Frampt delights in the perverted state the world is in and seeks to extent it. Kaathe delights in the destructive potential of the dark and guides peoples darkness to that regard. Due to their manipulation, you can only fail in Dark Souls 1. You either prolong the suffering of the world or you become a lord of darkness - bringing more suffering. In both cases, we are deceived on the good option - tranquility.

[@tuduman9917]

I just got to know the channel and I just love it! Your vids are awesome, your lore research and conclusions are beyond what I've ever seen and I will for sure watch all your Dark Souls videos. A fair constructive feedback (please don't take it as a complain, as I said, I LOVE YOUR VIDEOS!): when you are talking about a specific NPC, put a image of the NPC him/herself. It was quite strange to hear Karla with Vendrik's image on the screen, Vilhelm with Iudex Gundyr besides others :p Your work is awesome!! Congrats to you and whoever helps you with your videos!

[@ahmz1404]

I know aussie upload speeds suck but you need to up the video quality, it's a bit too blocky.

[@mightytaco123]

Darkness is the absence of light so when there’s no light THERE IS KNLU DARK!

[@DominusNoks]

That's a can of worms you opened there. Great video, Mitch, nice to see someone trying to make sense of something as fundamental as this stuff! However, I'm not so sure about some things you say. Although it seems that hollowing is a process of returning to a natural state, isn't it something only undead can do? I mean, in Dark Souls 1 we're pretty explicitly told that not all humans are undead and that 'the Curse of Undead' basically just appeared out of nowhere at some point, making those branded by its sign go undead and, eventually, hollow. But it is strongly implied in the Ringed City that it was Gwyn who created the Dark Sign (or the Seal of Fire). Sooo, did Gwyn make humans return to their natural state despite trying to prevent that, or what?

[@Murphio25]

I think that Hollowing doesn't always have to be through undeath either. It's just returning to a soulless state. Gwyn himself appears Hollow, as well as the Nameless King, when we encounter them (or perhaps Lords/Gods/Greater Humans, etc. just appear eyeless in general?). So it's not always undeath that can turn someone to a Hollow.

[@wanderingbufoon]

Still looking for the ones who took the cold and hot souls. We know light, dark, life and death souls were taken by the witch, gwyn, nito, and pygmy. But who took the cold and hot? Or were they the progenitor of the 4 lord souls?

[@aloxeno]

Awesome video! Very interesting theory!

[@shitpostenjoyer3579]

Z A C C is now playing Arma 3. Great Video, I always love to hear about The Dark.

[@THIZZAVELI]

How you got kaathe in the title but didn't add his dialog? Aldia said the same thing as him but with less detail. None of you souls youtubers ever bring him up. He actually told us everything about what the mad god did to humanity. We just didn't know what to believe back then at that point. He even told us that frampt was a god groupie and betrayed the serpents. The serpents were team humanity. They were around during the age of dragons. They witnessed when gwyn and the other 2 gods upset the balance of nature by stopping humanities growth. That's why the abyss went crazy. It was humanity(the pygmy's lord soul AKA the dark soul ) lashing out and violently breaking free. You can't hold back a lord souls powers, it's a part of nature itself. You have to let it be and run it's course.

[@serbiancrusader7813]

I needed a new lore video, thanks mitch 👍

[@anthonyiodice]

I didn’t realize they kept the pendant joke going into DS2.

[@fnot804]

>not mentioned branding of humanity by Gwyn >not mentioning the painting >not mentioning the fact that you kill lords and meet the other thrones in ds3 just as you did in ds2 >not mentioning the fact that abyss was growing in ds2 while age of fire was residing, which contradicts the idea that "strong fire=strong darkness" >not mentioning the fact that regardless of choice of one undead, the other undead will pick a different choice but the world will progress in same direction sooner or later >not mentioning that player gather souns in ds1/2 only to gain passage/open door, not to put them in flame as fuel >not mentioning that you use CINDERS AND NOT SOULS in ds3 to help linking of the flame and the fact that you are called vessel for souls multiple time in different games and the fact that you are the ASH which was created by burning the 1st flame and you are the failed lord of cinder and not a human or undead >not mentioning the fact that age of dark existed before and whole point of ending of ds3 is different approach to it >not mentioning timeline except end of the age of ancients once >not mentioning that in the broken world, humanity changing form into angels/monsters/mindless creatures is not such a bad thing >not mentioning that Darkness is the soul of every human, and without it wumans are just empty vessels/hollows, but hollow state might be natural for them, unless someone turned humans into hollows during the age of ancients >not mentioning different elements such as life/death light/dark You could have posted a couple of quotes from loctus priests saying that "darkness is gentle and calm in nature" with addition of possibility that humans will turn into monsters instead of this 30min of nothing.

[@mitchl6896]

Женек суровцев >using meme arrows on KZbin You just invalidated everything you just said, most of which I have discussed in other videos. Very cool my dude.

[@fnot804]

Most is not all. And if you did discussed it there, this video serves no purpose whatsoever. Just "gimme views and subscribe". You barely even mentioned Kaathe while he is in the name of this video. 30 minutes of pure nothing.

[@mitchl6896]

Женек суровцев thanks for watching :) appreciate the support :))

[@MsTenseiga]

I always understood it like this: Humanity basically is the dark soul, only split apart into millions of fragments. Kaathe seeks to collect all these pieces, sending out the dark wraiths to rip humanity from human bodies and bring it to him. Maybe he even counted on humans' wishes to amass as much humanity as they can. But I always believed Kaathe wanted to rebuild the original dark soul...

[@despeckt]

That's why I did the ending with the firekeeper to put the first fire out

[@slightlytwistedagain]

Hey Mitch I still to this day had no one explain why they think Gwyn committed the first sin or think why what Gywn did is called the first sin. To me everything that has to do with sin in the game points to humanity (Goddess of Sin who humans worship, Japanese name of Profaned Capital is Sin Capital which is full of greedy dead humans, Ciaran forgiving you for being human, sin definition being an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law such as the gods). Help me out here because Gwyn committing the first sin seems to be a narrative that is just being accepted by the community rather than examined with evidence. To me the first sin means the first human and if you look at the dark soul as being the Japanese word otoshigo (unwanted bastard child, thanks JSF for that insight) you can see this as a child out of wedlock which is also commonly known to many in the real world as sinful and illegitimate, being impure which is what the dark soul conveys so much.

[@JohnSmith-op3qj]

If the First Sin truly is humanity, then wouldn't you think Aldia would have put more emphasis on humans being the villain? And how does humans commit the First Sin? Going by what the lore has given us, humans did little to nothing in constructing or obstructing the cycle of the ages. In contrast, Gwyn halted the cycle, something that is unnatural and can be seen as committing a sin. Of course, it is possible to point out that perhaps the Furtive Pygmy was the one who committed a sin by....I dunno, maybe splitting the Dark Soul and fathering humanity? I mean, the Pygmy *was* the only one who did such a thing, as opposed to the other soul-claiming Lords. But then, it's still a long shot.

[@slightlytwistedagain]

By associating sin with villain you're creating different context to what sin is which is something impure. You only have to look at biblical Adam to see how sin perpetuates in the world because sin lives on in his descendants with the only way to purify sin and to be closer to god is to be baptised. But just imagine that in the Dark Souls universe instead of baptism you shackle yourself with the brand of the darksign ring of fire to be close to the gods. So with that in mind the Furtive Pygmy is the first sin as in the first of the sin race which has humanity as a soul. Sin is associated with impure things which you purify yourself with fire or self flagellation/bloodletting.

[@JohnSmith-op3qj]

Speaking purely from a cultural standpoint, I fully agree with you. I can see what kind of symbol the Furtive Pygmy carries in this case. However, tying Dark Souls to Christianity completely might make the lore implication differ too much from what it actually tells us. For example, the Darksign. I have not played Dark Soul 3 (or 2, for that matter), but given what I understand from the other lore veterans, the Ringed City DLC explained the Darksign as more of a curse. It's not a rite of baptism undertaken by humans; the Gods placed the Darksign on early humans and their weapons because they fear the Dark, and the humans' weapons of that time was forged from the Abyss (the Gods are weak to dark damage). So in that sense, the Darksign differs from the concept of baptism and the purification of sin. Also, the Furtive Pygmy being seen as the bearer of the First Sin might carry some form of truth behind it, but there are some inaccurate bits in what you said. Saying that the Furtive Pygmy is the First Sin because he/she held the Dark Soul within him/her is a hasty assumption. As with the three other Lords, the Pygmy simply claimed a soul. Sure it is Dark, but it's simply an anti-thesis to Gwyn's soul, just as Nito's is to the Witch of Izalith's. Bearing a Dark Soul can't possibly be classified as a sin, let alone the First Sin. I completely agree with your definition of sin from a cultural standpoint, which is impurity. However, applying that to Dark Souls in its most literal sense might misconstrue what little facts we know of the lore, so I think it can only be used to some extent.

[@slightlytwistedagain]

I'm not tying Dark Souls to Christianity completely though, I'm just pointing out that there are some very strong parallels. You have to keep in mind that Dark Souls wouldn't have used the word sin to describe something else other than being an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law. It's also worth pointing out that Dark Souls has strong parallels to Shinto with the way the soul works (see Tsukumogami) and purification though water. See Jerks Sans Frontieres The bastards Curse for more info. This all points to the Dark Soul being impure and we literally see this with insects, bugs and rot.

[@JohnSmith-op3qj]

I've watched that video too. That was a really entertaining and informative video indeed :D Now that you mention it, I do realize that there *are* impure aspects to the Dark Soul, or at the very least those who are closely related to it. Those bug-man hybrid residing in the Ringed City can be one of those aspects. I think 'rot' has a different connotation when we consider the Ariandel DLC. There's a lore video that explained/theorized that rot signifies 'stagnation' rather than the Dark. The only stagnation I can see from Dark Souls as a whole are either the cycle of ages or the relighting of the First Flame. In that regard, I think rot in specific is not an aspect of the Dark Soul. I might be looking too much into this and you might have been talking about rot as in 'the filth that generally plague wherever the Dark may be', though.

[@RolloTonéBrownTown]

I have a constant fear that something's always near. Fear of the Dark ... Fear of the Dark. I have a phobia that someone's always there.

[@jojolafrite90]

I still think we all miss essential pieces of the puzzle...

[@kiriyin5891]

Yall ever notice that all lords of cinders phase 2 is a fire stage apart from the twin princes? Cause they never actully linked the flame they were ment to but didnt cause of there physical state and upbringing

[@LSB44446]

:) Always excited to see another video from you. Also, did you know the Curl Up Gesture lets you get right past the Judicator's Archers?

[@ChepsGaming]

I always do 'stretch-out' to get past them. I briefly used it in one of my videos and a guy was like 'YOU CAN DO THAT????'. lol

[@LSB44446]

Cheps Gaming I don't use it but I tried yesterday when I realized their arrows went right over me when I was gesturing at an invader, then I posted a video, with the same response. It's so damn goofy lol

[@rohgenextfan]

Great video, though I agree with The Ashen Hollow's analysis of the story whereby bringing forth the dark is breaking the loop Gwynn tried so hard to keep from ending.

[@Nightmareblader]

Mind blown! Good job :)

[@ArbitraryGravity]

Yo. Best DS lore video I've seen since The Bastard's Curse. While I don't agree with every detail, overall this made a ton of things make sense for me.

[@archangel9363]

In a way, the Light-aligned factions being overwhelmed by their Dark counterparts was a self-fulfilling prophecy...

[@StarlightDragon]

The footage seems to be at odds with the audio. Kinda weird seeing a conversation with vendrick, when the conversation is about karla's dialogue, but I'll roll with it.

[@edwardoliveira1748]

Will you ever make more Bloodborne Lore?

[@LUKAKHIZAN1]

there's nothing to afraid in the dark, now only creators of abyss walking in this darkness, we can watch and enjoy this, they are forever doomed now and i'm so happy for them, this shadows are cursed with regret FOREVER, no chance to see light again, NO FUKIN CHANCE.

[@BansheeKing22]

For me I personally saw the usurpation of fire as the canonical ending. Instead of artificially linking the flame to create another repeat cycle or leaving it to fade only to reignite again at a later date, you take the flame into yourself and claim its power for you to lead mankind into a new age and new fate. Not an age of fire or age of dark but an age of freedom.

[@frederikmortensen6321]

What the fuck is that thing in the beginning?!?!?! Jesus now I can't ever sleep again

[@IsDefinitelyHuman]

Without light, everything exists in a twisted twilight between both. A monochrome universe without either.

[@stealingfire1991]

I enjoyed the video, but I think the whole debate over the light/dark dichotomy will probably never satisfy me because of not particularly strong storytelling in DS1. In DS1, all kinds of first hand witnesses to the arising of the Age of Fire are still around - Gwyn, Seath, Nito, presumably Kathe and Frampt, etc., and there are plenty around who in all likelihood heard the story of the coming of the Age of Fire from those first hand witnesses. Heck, as late in the series as DS3, one of Gwyn's own kids, The Nameless King is still around. And of course there's Seath's, a first-hand witness', whole library that probably has loads of books on the subject. And yet, despite the fact that Frampt wants us to sacrifice ourselves to preserve the Age of Fire against the dark, we never ask any of these folks who LITERALLY are still around what dark and light are/mean, and never use the card catalog in Seath's library to maybe, you know, find out? DS1 gets praised for allowing the player to make the "good/bad" ending choice without the forced dialogue boxes of a Skyrim, or Witcher, or Mass Effect, but From essentially forces the character into the position of being the dumbest player in the world by not letting them letting them even ask or research what their choices mean. Plus, the idea that the dark/light cycle governs the course of existence doesn't make sense either because there were all these everlasting dragons and arch trees around before the finding of the lord souls, the first flame, etc, and I'm guessing the dragons weren't just stumbling around bumping into arch trees all the time because they couldn't see them because there wasn't any light. And the argument that we should look at that dragon/tree/flame/dark story as a metaphorical creation story, rather than as a literal history, doesn't work either because, again, some of those dragons and first hand witnesses are still around. The myth isn't a myth if you can just walk into the Kiln of the First Flame, and say, "Hey Gwyn, tell me about when you were a little younger." While I enjoy the lore and the way it's told from a gameplay perspective (sparse dialogue and item descriptions), I think from a storytelling perspective it's a bit of a mess, and it's ability to tell the story in the way it does relies on From forcing you to be the most gullible person in the world, who won't ask basic important questions of people who have the answers, or even pick up a book to find out on your own. I honestly think the lore interpretation side of things would work better if DS1 never existed in the Dark Souls universe, because then the easy potential to get the actual answers would never have existed for the character. With all that said, when I step out of my "this don't make no sense" shoes, I do really enjoy the lore, and enjoy the videos you do here, as well as the ones you've been doing with Aegon of Astora. Good stuff.

[@doenvan]

You don't understand the theme of that game. All the answers are there. Dark souls 2&3 could be considered excessive.

[@stealingfire1991]

doenvan I understand the themes in DS1, and I'm not arguing that they aren't interesting or good. I just disagree that From ever sufficiently explained certain key concepts in the franchise, or that they always make logical sense with each other internally. I think it makes interpreting the lore difficult, and I also think it's worth asking whether certain key concepts mean the same thing in each game of the series, or whether From changed some ideas as they went on. I'll admit that when I say I don't think From explained certain basic things sufficiently, that's partly a personal aesthetic preference, but from a storytelling perspective, there are certain things make me scratch my head. It's like when a tv show suddenly makes a streetwise character gullible to accomplish a certain purpose. It doesn't make the show bad, but it doesn't feel right from a storytelling perspective. There's just some things From does that don't sit with me the right way. I think you're right about DS2 and DS3 being excessive, and I think in some ways they overcomplicate lore that was originally meant to be left more ambiguous, even if I don't think that in itself makes sense given that there's a world class library compiled by an everlasting dragon in the game. I think they might have done better not to tell another cycle of the fire story...and then another...but told a side story or prequel dealing with the original cast if they wanted to expound upon and better explain their themes. I think that would have kept the game fresher, since you wouldn't necessarily be linking the fire in each game, and it would have kept them with the strongest character group in the series. The folks in DS2 and DS3 just aren't as interesting as those in DS1.

[@jetfoxproductions]

actually the first flame needed 3 souls, because seath and the four kings simply had portion of gwyn's soul. that being said seath's soul certainly took on a life of it's own in the second game and became a seperate soul from gwyn's.