The Abyss, the Deep, and the "Dark" of Dark Souls

In this episode of Fear the Old Lore, we examine the Abyss, the Deep, the Dark, "stagnation," and their ties between games to gain a better understanding of the lore of Dark Souls.
This one took an extremely long time to write and produce, partially because of the scope of the project, and partially from trying to not overexplain or underexplain things. I probably end up doing both anyway, but I hope you enjoy it nonetheless.
Special shout-outs to Carlos Oliveira/Erick Gondo, Mor'tis Vult, and cad5150's channel for helping me get footage for Dark Souls 2 and Demon's Souls, and a huge shout-out to censhin for creating logansarchives.com/ for me so I could sift through all 3 games' text in Japanese, English, (and even Chinese) extremely quickly. It was an immense help in creating this video, and it probably wouldn't have been possible without it. Also shout-out and special thanks to the creator of leminerva.github.io/Dark-Soul..., where the text for all 3 games in Japanese, Chinese, and English can be found.
Sorry for any of the very mild spoilers for Sekiro and Bloodborne. I really should have put up a spoiler alert, but I didn't think about it until the video was already finished.
Here's the link to wikipedia's page about the Abyss. It's really fascinating. I recommend checking it out because I certainly didn't have enough time to discuss it more in the video.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abyss_(...)
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Link to my Japanese to English Retranslations of Bloodborne and assorted Dark Souls text:
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
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0:00 - Intro
0:20 - What is the Dark?
1:35 - Duality - Product of Disparity
2:19 - Life and Dark
3:23 - Life and Will
5:56 - The Dark - Drawn Towards Life
6:39 - The Emotions of the Abyss
8:21 - Fear and the Dark
11:51 - Emotion - The True Essence of Life Itself
13:42 - Transcending Life through the Path of Dragons
16:13 - The Transformations of Men into Trees, Pus, and Dragons
17:47 - Taking the Dark out of the Abyss
22:08 - The Potential of the Abyss
23:35 - The Effect of the First Flame on Darkness
25:36 - Manus, "Master" of the Abyss?
28:36 - The Blood of the Dark Soul, or Dark Soul Blood?
30:57 - Blood - Container of the Soul?
32:46 - The Rotting, Stagnant World and the Painted World
37:20 - The Deep - Corrupted by Blood, Pus, and Tears?
40:13 - Aldrich, Artorias, Blood, and the Dark
41:19 - Dark Devouring Desires
44:30 - Dregs, Vermin, Yodomi, Stagnation, Blood, Poison, Rot, and the Dark
48:10 - Cleansing the Dark and Completing the Cycle
50:50 - Breaking the Cycle
51:53 - Outro

[@orcish3747]

Souls living in the blood has been a thing since demon's souls if you think about it. *Where do you find your lost souls after you die?*

[@NexusKirin]

Me and my friend had a discussion about that while we played through DS1so I’m glad to see that someone thought of this too

[@Dartium]

it also would make alot of sense if blood would represent mercury(mercury is spirit) from classic alchemy since they considered the spirit to be what connects the soul to the body, you could also consider the human kings who apperantly had all their blood dried up to have gone fully hollow as the spirit represent the mind meaning once you go full hollow you would be without spirit. Saw a recent video from a guy called "max derrat" who had a very intresting take never seen before through the lense of alchemy. The Abyss is also very well explained through alchemy as the first matter or where everything came from essentially.

[@Dartium]

as a side note in blood borne you can draw blood from your character to gain "quicksilver" bullets and quicksilver is another name for mercury.

[@leonardschopper1076]

@@Dartium ergo spirit bullets

[@ThommyofThenn]

In the blood stain

[@Charnel_Heart]

There's a common theme here that I feel needs to be stated. The dark being inexorably drawn towards life, Aldrich devouring men, the abyss predating the first flame, the art of lifedrain in dark souls 1, the abysswatchers condensing into one. And even the constant link between blood, dark, and invasion covenants all combine to state thus: It is thr nature of dark to latch onto or stain things like a whirlpool leading ever downwards. It will condense, consume, and refine itself until it is one. Dark by itself is at peace, and it is the disparity of the first flame that stirred the dark to action at all. Dark is the tumultuous ocean surface, the abyss the primordial sea, spiraling downward until it is all that remains. Massively condensed and nowhere to go at the base of the world will that stillness be found.

[@Zayindjejfj]

So basically, empty space needing to be filled. It's apart of the very fundamental laws of the world. When an opposite force comes, the other seeks to balance it out.

[@zeporion6091]

Dark calms those who have died, as stated in Dark Souls 1’s Tomb of The Giants and Dark Souls 2’s Undead Crypt. There are numerous other instances of Dark and Death being linked, from visual to explicit item descriptions. All the four forces have some sort of push and pull with each other. The Undead Curse is caused and facilitated by Light and Dark, despite being literally a constant state of conflict between Life and Death.

[@amberhernandez]

Don't forget that, long after all true life is gone, the world is converging constantly, collapsing in on itself as it sinks into the presumed Abyss.

[@wowitsfrostygames155]

This comment is two years ago, but to add to this, ancient eastern thought didn’t have a concept of “nothingness” as we do today. Their concept of a state of “pre creation” was described as chaotic waters. You see this thought in works such as the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament we Christian’s call it), and the very first page when describing the world before God ordered it was waters. He talked about Buddhism in the video, but it’s pretty much all of the ancient near eastern thoughts. There’s a lot of overlap. I’d say your comment is probably fairly accurate.

[@CallmeGanonDragmire]

​@@zeporion6091l😊

[@jadephoenix4297]

This video is extremely well paced, and well written, it sounds as though you're speaking relaxed and casually, but not rambling.

[@yikes6969]

Doing gymnastics on it

[@lilfingertoe6213]

@@yikes6969W hating 😂

[@arthurdossantos6826]

This concept for formlessness can explain why the fire keepers or the bonfire can level you up. They can turn the empty dark into form.

[@franciscogarciadamiani979]

in ds1 you don't need firekeeper

[@arthurdossantos6826]

@@franciscogarciadamiani979 yeah, that's why I said "the bonfire". Fire keepers are, after all, a manifestation of the bonfire.

[@brentgarrison6245]

You see the same thing in Bloodborne. At it's heart, the effect of the Old Blood, or rather the blood echoes in said blood, is to cause the rigidity of the physical world to turn fluid, which allows men to transform into beasts. It's also how the player levels up, though with the aid of the Doll and the will that animates it. Thus the player's transformation is controlled, measured and purposeful whereas the common folk of Yharnam fall victim to chaotic transformations without the will to direct them.

[@journeymanofhope9866]

​@@brentgarrison6245"and the most gruesome beasts were once clerics"

[@chrislevack405]

I always felt the fire, or light, from the bonfires catalyzed the Souls into action/changing form for our benefit...it couldn't have happened without fire/light. I know Estus is bottled fire... everything powerful and magical in Dark Souls is because of the light. Which is why Frampt wants to shut that sht down.

[@hiddenshadow2105]

I think drakes in DS3 are former humans foremost (ascending to drake form through Dragon Peak), hence being still innately human at core, they were able to be infected by the pus of men when Lothric started to rot as Prince Lothric refused to set himself on fire.

[@JayWhipp1e]

This was my take as well. Its pretty much shown in game that many lothric knights sought the path of the dragon and ascended

[@TheCompleteMental]

I dont think that's supported by anything. They used to hunt dragons, and throughout that entire paradigm shift towards dragonriding there's utterly no reference to ascending into dragons. In fact, nobody is _ever_ seen successfully transforming into one.

[@duwanglover3424]

I’m a little sad that Vendrick only got a small cameo near the end. I feel like he has some of the most insightful dialogue about the reality of mans choices and the fate of the Dark.

[@jacobhoover1654]

Lots of people don't consider DS2 canon since the original creator of DS1 (&3) didn't make it.

[@thebigdork8030]

@@jacobhoover1654 Especially Frustrating since a lot of DS3's break the cycle elements stem from Aldia and DS2's ideas.

[@dev4159]

@@jacobhoover1654 even though multiple elements from DS2 are in DS3 ?

[@thomasspinola7417]

​@@jacobhoover1654 funny, Miyazaki said basically that it is canon

[@InferiorGamer]

"Fear not, the dark, my friend. And let the feast begin" Initially I had not idea what this meant, I always thought feast referred to him eating my character, or something like that. However now I believe I understand what he means. I think what he's saying is not to fear the inevitable, as in the dark is inevitable, and keeping the flame lit is in itself proof we fear this inevitable darkness. "Letting the feast begin" is the exact response to have if you're truly accepting the dark, you're not denying the reality of the gnawing of ones flesh, which could make anyone uncomfortable, but that's the fear that needs to be repelled. Therefore your open to your fears coming true, you face the possibility with strength, you welcome the feast to begin not because you necessarily want it, but because you know living in fear is worse.

[@mohgus66]

This is exactly what I've pondered about considering the dark and humanity in Dark Souls and the connections to Demon's Souls, Bloodborne, Sekiro and Berserk as well. Ideas and stuff like ''will'', negative and positive appraisals of the Dark, Abyss and humans in Souls series and human darkness in Berserk. These things have been swirling in my mind pretty much ceaselessly. This is all that I have thought about and *more*! This video is exactly what I have wanted for months or even years. The lore of these games and Berserk and such things are my most persistent and powerful obsession and I don't think this video has quenched that obsession still. That is to say, I'm even more captivated by it all. Thank you LP for giving tangible and organized form to these thoughts.

[@neron8497]

Same. Been ruminating on this stuff for years, hah. Souls games really are metaphysical essays on life - expressed through art (in this case the video game medium).

[@erndeche1475]

The amusing thing is that Berserk treats it more accurately, and consequently the darkness of Berserk is the exact opposite of that in Dark Souls. Meanwhile people look at the artistic elements and think that Dark Souls is much like Berserk, but it's really the opposite concept with a skinsuit veneer of similarity. Berserk is simultaneously a much more unpleasant world than Dark Souls, and yet one with hope. Bersek is a world with clear and present Evil, but no recognized Good, however it is possible and even necessary that there is Good somewhere in it. Meanwhile Dark Souls is a world where Good and Evil aren't real things to begin with, just perceptual conceits. In Dark Souls, nihilism is the logical conclusion, and hence the ultimate philosophy.

[@JayWhipp1e]

If you want to better understand the concept of "will", look up "the world as will and representation" by arthur schopenhauer. Darksouls takes alot from it i feel. Though it may be because of its heavily eastern inspired concepts

[@25lighters91]

Was the serpent wrong to introduce knowledge and wisdom to humanity...or was it best to remain in bliss and close to the light of the Creator ?

[@MAveric215]

A nearly hour long video on the deep, dark, and, the abyss, sign me up!

[@SirZelean]

I've seen this confusion about the "no" particle before, and I completely agree with you. "Shingeki no Kyojin" has been at first translated as "Attack on Titan". But a few seasons in, when we find out more about the Titans, we discovered that it was supposed to be "Titan of Attack/Attack Titan", which is Eren's Titan's name.

[@tacioob2337]

Lmaoo truu 👍

[@erndeche1475]

Yep, the "no" due to Japanese grammar, is more appropriately translated to English as something like ", the". Therefore Shingeki no Kyojin is more like "Attack, the Titan", but since English doesn't have the same grammar, is often erroneously translated as just "the", so people think it's "Attack the Titan", hence "Attack on Titan".

[@SirZelean]

@@erndeche1475 Oooh, that's interesting :o it actually makes a lot of sense now

[@majeedmamah7457]

@@erndeche1475 isayama is the one who suggested the English name.

[@theastrovert]

finally, a comprehensive look on why the transformation into dragons is such prevalent aspect in the series.

[@ShupperDupper]

21:57 is powerfully poignant, and a great way to view the concept. I really appreciated the metaphor as well as the whole of the video.

[@Wraff]

One minor thing I noticed: the Impurity/Yodomi rune from Bloodborne physically almost looks like a bleeding human holding their arms up. Just a possible visual interpretation, but since you pointed out that the Deep is associated with bleed and bloodletting, it's another link between DS3 and Bloodborne.

[@river7874]

This makes sense, given that the Hunter rune is based off of The Hanged Man.

[@JayWhipp1e]

Remember, one not ken to fire cannot paint a world. One consumed by fire must not paint a world. ..but Vendrick was right. There is another path. A cold, dark, and very gentle one..

[@wjr4700]

I think youre right about the abyss. Perhaps within the cycle, dark settles downward and pools in the abyss? That would explain why NPCs cant differentiate from them. Also, the abyss it self isnt dark (devoid of light) in the sense that you can see everything clearly. Unlike Tomb of the Giants for example.

[@jakobwagner8032]

Blew my mind, the darkness has actual 'material' to it and the abyss is literally a void

[@brissanEXE]

I never really understood or got behind the theory that dragons are related to the Abyss and the Dark (DS2 scale description aside), but when you got to the part showing hollows transforming into pus of man and trees, suddenly the theory clicked for me. You've clearly put a lot of work and thought into this, and it shows. This video is amazing LP

[@MitridatedCarbon]

I think they are meant to represent equilibrium among the forces ruling the world of Dark souls. NThey are technically undead since they lack souls (death) but are not hollows and don't suffer the mental decay of both gods and humans (life). They are covered in indestructable scales of darkness (dark) but they breath pure fire, and some even blasts of energy (light). the dragons, as well as the age of ancients, were the Wuji between the Yin of the gods and the yang of humanity.

[@closed2435]

@@MitridatedCarbon reject dark and light, return to dragon

[@maureenbouterse]

It is amazing that there is still so much lore left unexplored that you still have more than enough content to make more videos. I look forward to seeing what themes are carried over to Elden Ring, but until then, I'd love more exploration of the Dark, the Abyss and Blood. Please keep up the good work.

[@gaborkepiro9061]

im kinda late but at 30:57 this part is backed by the fact that when you die you leave a bloodstain containing your souls, also Father Ariandel reviving Friede with his blood/soul also backed by the fact that you can transpose an item related to Ariandel(the whip) from Friede's soul

[@Wraff]

This was such a dense, detailed and ambitious topic to cover, on top of one that spans literally ALL of the games, and you absolutely killed it! Thought-provoking work as always, you've given me a ton to think about! Definitely need to rewatch this a couple of times to let it all sink in.

[@river7874]

My headcanon has always been that the Painter in AoA is using the Blood of the Dark Soul to paint Yharnam. Hence why the more pious, good natured people become some of the most horrific beasts.

[@lommmmo]

I wouldnt say that anyone in bloodborne who is pious has simultaneously a good nature to be honest. Except (maybe?) Father Gascoigne, and he was quite far from being one of the most horrific beasts.

[@elias.t]

@@lommmmo Yeah, no. I'd say the priesthood becoming the most horrific beasts is both symbolically to show that the church is corrupt to the core and logically because they work with blood the most out of anyone in Yharnam.

[@flamesofchaos13]

While I like/love the idea of Bloodborne being the new Dark Soul created Painted World...I have to agree with the other comment the pious people of Yharnam are far from good natured they're extremely corrupt morally bankrupt beings and them turning into the most horrific beasts indicates their truly vile natures they kept "hidden". Besides that I do have to question the nature of the Great Ones and the Dream and Nightmare Worlds...Why would the Painter create these things? Or were they accidentally created from primeval emotions of the Dark? Like if she was trying to create a better more comfortable world for Humans to live in...If this theory is true she failed quite horrifically. She arguably made something worse and inherently darker...But I guess that makes sense given the ingredients used.

[@jacobhoover1654]

​@@flamesofchaos13the painter didn't make the world of BB worse or darker: the world of BB was made horrific by the people in it, Nightmares are made by people, as seen by Micolash. Also, none of the great ones even attack you until you attack them.

[@ahbooza]

“A world without life and death” sounds like the state of the world before the First Flame came to be. And the Fire Keeper said that one day flame with come again. I think that’s an okay ending because it means the natural cycle of the world is restored. It may suck, sure, but nature doesn’t care doesn’t she?

[@neron8497]

Your best video yet in my view. Critically important material, for the Souls player who wonders.

[@HumdrumMadman]

Truly excellent work. As always, you paint a perfect picture of the ideas you are presenting!

[@YavNe]

What does "painting a picture of the ideas" mean?

[@HumdrumMadman]

@@YavNe Mostly the method that he uses to present. Multiple times he explains concepts with in game lore, explains clearly what may actually be intended, all without presuming knowledge on the audiences part and without making it sound like either talking down, or that he knows something you don't. Does that make sense?

[@Nagram_]

This is... is so well made, going deep into the abyss of darkness to try to find similarities and define a nature to one of the, easy to misinterpret, core concepts of the series. Looking foward to more videos like tis in the future

[@core-nix1885]

My favourite item description: Agape ring: (Agape can mean Gaping or can refer to the Love of God) "All things are rooted in souls, but what drives our thirst for them? Abstinence from this elixir may be the truest homage to an enduring Self"

[@slowvibes8839]

Let's gooooo new FTOL

[@MrMcslammer1]

I always felt that the flame represented an awakening of a higher consciousness i.e. self awareness, self reflection, emotion, and sense of existence. The flame caused the void to express itself through cycles, if that makes sense. In the game everything is a mirrored reflection of blackness or unconsciousness. Sort of like "as above so below" in alchemy. Theres so much depth and story to these games that its impossible to think miyazaki consciously created and connected certain archetypes and themes simply because he is well read in ancient religions and mythologies. I think these things are embedded very deep in human subconscious and are expressed through creativity very often not by sole intention...which is why i think so many people connect deeply with soulsborne games

[@Bretzel81]

So I have a theory as to why dark was always there even when fire wasn’t. Because darkness is always around in absence of light, and if fire is light; places without fire are dark…which would include places away from fire. The thing about dark is if it exists without light then it makes sense it would exist before fire because there was no light at all. The fire brought light with it. The abyss, while full of scary things is still peaceful, nothing there tries to hurt each other vs when there is fire in which case people make war and strife with each other. The ‘disparity’ that fire brought, was not bringing darkness itself, but rather highlighting that there is something not like it. Fire only showed the difference between dark, which was the only thing before in addition to dragons and the like; most people chose this new concept(fire) and the things(light, heat, death, ect.) that come with it. Those that stayed with the dark upon siding with the furtive pygmy are merely embracing what they already had. Really the embracing of dark vs light is like that “reject modernity, embrace tradition” at least for pygmies, humans and kin. They are rejecting the newness of the light and sticking with what they already had.

[@core-nix1885]

37:37 Klimt was the former Archbishop of Carim - the Aldrich Faithful took over when Sulyvahn deposed Gwyndolin as Allfather of the Way of White. They chose to cover the statues rather than destroy them because Sulyvahn is also a Velka worshipper (Greatsword of Judgment, Darkmoon Ritual Spear). Also, it's a reference to the veil of Isis or Maya.

[@schmebulockjizz]

Thanks so much for these videos, please dont stop making them. Its amazing this games are still being discussed years later.

[@cam-inf-4w5]

But full circle; is fearing the dark the closest way to have the least amount of corruption? Embracing the dark turns you into a monster. Is the best way to do neither? Neither fear nor embrace? But by default that would mean being relatively weak. To not be seeking power at all and being detached. And to face against it you still turn into it. And the same with the flame.

[@r.p.193]

That was a great explanation, easy to follow for how complex an deep are those concepts. Amazing video :)

[@senoircockonface]

38:46 this could be a reverence to the londor pilgrims, since the angel pupa in the ringed city dlc are bursting from the back of dead pilgrims.

[@emmanuelprado]

Great job, seems decently researched. I liked it. Keep it up.

[@daith_izumi]

Surprisingly, I can relate that whole Fire Keeper and Irina thing a little bit to Kingdom Hearts.

[@SirVyre]

I'm surprised you didn't include the Locust Preacher dialogue, "And so, she lived in fear. Of the dark, of the things that gnawed at her flesh. And yet! The Abyss hath yet to produce any such creature!" To me this meant that because Flame was made to pervert the course of nature, it also perverted the Abyss, giving rise to monstrous darkness. Animate Darkness, form to the formless. Shadows are innately tied to form. Where fire resideth darkness has form, and that is not how the Dark is meant to be.

[@kanseidorifto2430]

I love your content, the part on the Dark Soul blood was very insightful.

[@kasp7674]

One of the best Souls-lore videos. Got a much better understanding of the "Dark"

[@user-if4nx2jn8r]

This is the kind of video I love to see. You mention a lot of ideas I think are really under-explored among the fans who theorize, particularly the theological and metaphysical concepts Miyazaki appears to be drawing from for these games. This is definitely one of the themes with which Miyazaki seems particularly fascinated. Hope to see more videos like this one.

[@xanthouskingjeremiah7571]

It's good to see the result of all those streams. Good work as usual.

[@APalebloodSky]

Seriously one of the best KZbinrs for lore.

[@rabsrabble5415]

This is phenomenal and I'm don't think Vaati's abyss videos could hold a light to this.

[@chicodepuertorico1450]

Awesome analysis!

[@ethangnasher3848]

I need more stuff like this, it really helps me to understand the deeper form of Miyazaki's way of storytelling, not through direct approach but through understanding what's presented to you and the symbolism behind it.

[@Eldagusto]

Good Job Son. You put a lot of effort in collecting the footage with all those streams.

[@Paperman14]

Great video LP!

[@brandonmorales8615]

I truly appreciate your critique through this lens which is what allows the community to better understand the soulsverse. it is truly amazing that such community can keep picking away at understanding such a mythology that was scarcely understood in it's adolescence.

[@georgtkalec3307]

Excellent video! I'm still amazed at the richness and depth of FromSoft lore. Especially the parts about stagnation really resonated with me. Great stuff, thank you good sir!

[@johntrains1317]

An amazing video. LP didn't start with lore about characters or item descriptions. This mad lad chose to tackle the biggest enigma in soulsborne lore. Impressive, and well done .

[@zerow5677]

Very well done. Thanks man

[@owenbarr8046]

Thanks so much, this video is so good.

[@Crazieyboy15]

It's a tragedy that this hasn't gotten more views and like. You went into clear and detailed explanation, even bringing up more than a few things I didn't consider. Its crazy that Dark Souls can still generate talks and discussions like this even years later. My only grip would be to put a bit more emotion into your speech, my man. You sound like your reading your lines directly from the paper and it comes across as a little bland. But that's just a minor critique on the epic video though.

[@No-sr5fb]

Your research is top notch homie, well presented as well

[@ThommyofThenn]

I've heard many theories and explanations regarding the nature of the Dark and the Abyss. Looking forward to what I hope is a more well researched and explained discussion as I start this playlist

[@user-oc3mt7mc2k]

I've watched hours of Dark Souls content and this is the first video that actually makes the relationship between the Light, Dark and the Abyss clear.

[@chrisg5219]

Man idk how you only have 9.4k subs atm. Don't worry though your channel is amazing and the content is just fantastic! Keep up with it please you've definitely got a loyal and organically growing audience!

[@angelmin8819]

Another superb video!

[@crispyshadow3729]

Dude this video was fucking awesome. I loved how you incorporated Sekiro as that is my favorite of the FS games but had no idea of just how close they keep together the themes. This gave me a excellent understanding of the lore and tbh you are a very serious competitor to Vaati, his stories are very tragic but well told but when it comes to analysis and best case scenarios to understanding the world your on his heels my friend I’ve never truly understood Gaels item in question The Dark Soul but my God you’ve given the best explanation yet, also placing a distinction between the dark, abyss, and deep was very well done and those Locusts were spitting facts I actually really enjoy them as they are trying to tell you that the dark is not to be feared, that over the series it has been dragged and berated as this unholy abomination of a place but that is a lie of the gods and Aldia & Kaathe also try and warn you, even the Pygmy at the beginning of the dlc will mock you if you lie to him and tell him your serve the gods as he knows that they are long dead and any person serving them would never visit such a place for their fear prevents them so. So much good here in this video to much talk about as my fingers are burning but anyway I fucking loved it man keep it up bro.

[@johanretard3615]

I think getting the fire keeper to snuff out the fire is the good ending of 3 because she basically says that you are playing into a bigger cycle now. Lots of great thoughts about the dualism of dark souls, the dichotomy of potentiality/multiplicity and quality/order/centrality. I think alot of people wrongly frame dark souls as a revolutionary good guy humanity vs bad guy gods story and are missing the point of alot of concepts. Its classic yin yang, things are the motor of their opposite. Now.... what you shouldve mentioned was in the last dark souls 2 dlc where the dark/potential/feminine is married to her opposite and because of him becomes the remedy to the endless chaos created by attempts to prolong the age of fire. Dark souls 2's hidden masterstroke Also I think Gael consuming the pigmys to give his blood is accidental christ-kino, and it reminds me of all the weird communion imagery in bloodborne where they eat plant matter (the lumen flower) to transcend, and the moon presence is named flora presumably, which I think is a weird statement of plant matter as something of a higher evolutionary order than man, or this plant being the opposite of man that must be consumed to transcend while being counter to the old blood which comes from a creature, or I dont know, bloodborne still doesn't make sense to me. And on blood of the dark soul, I took it as blood that participates with the dark soul,or even incarnates it. I think the blood and the soul of dark souls are parallel and opposite. They are like motors for the opposite aspects of a being, the body and the being's own agency/mind/will. So I see Gael as basically marrying the soul to the blood by consuming it. So it's not really a container, because in the case of painting specifically she is painting with the dark soul as blood, so the blood is the dark soul itself by taking it in, more "you are what you eat". So I dont see it as a container, but instead the cautifying of the endless potential of the dark soul, containing something rarely changes its telos, if ever. But gael specifically takes it into his blood to give it a new different singular purpose. So they are destroying the potential of the dark soul by giving it one purpose as pigment, but then within the image painted with it, the dark souls infinite potential is restored. So the blood itself is like an image of the dark soul more than a container. And the body while being a container for souls can also be the image of the soul, most clearly shown by Aldrich taking the appearance of who he's consumed.

[@jacobhoover1654]

Where in Bloodborne do they say or imply people eat the lumen flowers?

[@jeremiahpheasant466]

The white faced locust in the ringed city state that the insects of the deep aren't in the dark or the abyss

[@ElChelikesAudi]

Again excellent video!

[@broderlandfarms726]

What if life is like a pulse, it needs to fade in and out. Maybe from the age of dark new and more powerful life can grow. In dark souls we draw so much from humanity but do whatever it takes to prevent humanity from taking it back. Maybe pushing the age of light is whats twisted the world come ds3? I didn’t want to forget this so I decided to comment it, any thoughts?

[@ninelotus]

An idea I've had for a while: the Deep is actually a concept that doesn't properly belong in the Dark Souls "Age of Fire/Dark" time period. The soul of Aldrich mentions "visions of a coming age of the deep sea", which I see as an age that would resemble the world of Bloodborne. There are several things in DS3 that I think are really references to Bloodborne concepts, e.g.: - Aldrich (Eldritch) - The candle stands in the Cathedral of the Deep that resemble the Formless Oedon rune - Sulyvahn's Beast / Watchdog of the Old Lords - The Pontiff's Right Eye/Left Eye rings that turn people into beasts - The "dregs" So what I think happened: A Bloodborne-like age is meant to follow the Age of Fire/Dark shown in the Dark Souls series. Because of Gwyn and the cycle of fire linking that he started, the Age of Fire/Dark has been unnaturally prolonged to the point that concepts from the next great age have started to appear in the Dark Souls setting.

[@SuperMatturalNZ]

Simply beautiful

[@daith_izumi]

If you pick being a Cleric as a starter class, you have something on your back, just like with the pilgrims. And the description of the robes even depicts that same thing, to ensure that darkness would not spread.

[@clickbaitable6320]

This video is very well thought through with the wording, tightly paced and has fantastic interpretations on the research we have to do in the games. I totally understood the dark soul blood by it’s English translation cause it just made sense that the blood would be “dry” but that being metaphorical. I interpreted the blood of the Pygmy Lords as containing the soul. Part may be that we bleed and when we die in game we turn into a soul-like dust so maybe that’s another interpretation.

[@Violaphobia]

Few people have gone this deep into the original Japanese. Incredible work, sir

[@kacper7970]

17:38 it was wise to put a disclaimer, otherwise comment section could have been more lively.

[@GaijinEncarmine]

Man, your videos get better with each one I watch. A note about Aldritch's transformation which you didn't discuss, though: Hawkwood says of him that "He ate so many [men] that he bloated like a drowned pig, then softened into sludge, so they stuck him in the Cathedral of the Deep." It seems that yes, cannibalism in DS can transform someone in such a radical manner.

[@SinclairLore]

Great stuff!

[@MisterBlackroad]

And it seems like linking the fire has completely stopped working in 3 which could be Miyazaki saying things have been dragged on as much as possible, not only in-universe but as far as the series goes as well. Which would make Lord of Hollows the ending for those who don't want to let go even if things can't move on anymore, also both in-universe and as far as the series goes because there won't be a new entry

[@jakobwagner8032]

Can you do a video on the relationship between the fire, darkness and void found in men??

[@LastProtagonist]

I was thinking about doing a video on the curse/Darksign in the future.

[@berringerleatherco.4973]

Love it. This is pretty dense, so I'll have to watch it a few times to completely understand it all! Thank you for this deep lore dive!

[@tobiaslundqvist3209]

Liked commented and subscribed! This was amazing :) This works fairly well with something i've been tinkering with based almost entirely on DS 1 and it's curious humanity drops from bosses. (Quote from my reddit post) "I do not believe the humanity sprites are the same thing as a fragment of the Dark soul but that they're a manifestation of the physical aspect of life. I hold it to be true that all living things come from the Dark as the They in the intro, including gods, witches and dragons. That all life comes from the Dark can be strengthened by the bosses and enemies that drop humanity (DS1). Because all life comes from the Dark all life contains humanity and there is really only three of the bosses that challenge this model and that is Smough, Gwyn and Artorias, i'll deal with these at the end. The fact that kalameet has humanity is in line with the dragons being infected with life at the dawn of the Age of Fire (Miazaki interview). And the Gaping dragon, is likely female. Every twin humanity we aquire in the game is found on female corpses, from female bosses or twin bosses like the gargoyles and this is in line with the Dark being tied to life as only women can bear new life. This motif of women as lifebearers would also explain why maidens make good firekeepers as they are naturally bearers of new humanity they act as a vessel through the bonfires to amass and burn humanity for the Age of Fire. It also explains Chaos as burning humanity strengthens Fire it makes sense fore Fire witches to employ it and perhaps as females be particulary adept at it. I think the soul the Witch of Izalith used to create her new flame was her unborn child and it makes sense that these mixings might have created the flame of chaos. I also believe the bug in her womb is that same unborn child twisted by the event. So then what are "regular" souls? I believe they are the other side of the coin in that where humanity is physical, instinctual existence they are more in line with demon's souls perception of them in that they are our mind, there described as clarity. They are what we use to effect and understand our surroundings and that is why you need intellect to cast soul sorcery or faith to cast miracles. And what are the lord souls? If Souls are the mind and our ability to inforce that will through magic, miracles and other ways then i believe they are a particularly fantastically powerful expressions of that. The Lords souls make it so they can inforce their will with unrivaled power. And what of the Dark Soul? I believe it is like the others but that the pygmy and his clan turned their minds to the Dark like Gwyn to Light, the Witch to Fire/Chaos and Nito to Death. This can be strengthened by looking at the intro cinematic, the furtive pygmy's soul looks nothing like a humanity sprite. I believe it being called humanity is simply a political move to associate the frightening Dark with Gwyns political enemies, the humans. I also believe the abyss to be a sort of primordial ooze from which life originated, this is supported by descriptions in DS3 of the ringed knight equipment where it being forged in the abyss betrays a smidgen of life. Now for some problems with this theory and speculative solutions, namely the bosses with no humanity drop. Gwyndolyn and Ornstein are illusions and that would be a good reason for them to not drop souls. As for Smough, Gwyn and Artorias reaching a conclusive reason is harder. Gwyn and artorias seem to be of the god clan and rhe gods are described in DS3 as beings of fire and this might be a clue. Nito and Izalith still drop humanity maybe because chaos needs humanity to function and death can only be relevant in relation to life. Gwyns clan may have repressed the Dark within them, to become as close to pure Fire/Light/Power as possible. They may have surpressed it to the point where one does not earn a full humanity sprite from them upon defeat. Finally I feel alot of people assume we are linking the flames at the end by feeding it our powerful soul but this being the whole truth does not compute for me. If we look at the system set up in lordran, whats actually feeding the flames is humanity through a network of bonfires all connected to the first flame so it stands to reason that humanity is the fuel. And why would our powerful Lord Souls be left at the door of the Kiln? The undead seem to be a means of mass producing humanity for the fire but then what makes linking the first flame essential? What does inheriting the flame mean?"

[@jacksmythe2187]

My interpretation of the withered blood of the pygmies was that by spreading the power of the Dark Soul amongst them all, it had faded, aided by the seal of Fire, and thus, much like how we killed all the holders of the fragments of Gwyn's soul in DS1, Gael had to kill and absorb the fragments from all those it had spread to, corrupting and twisting him with desire like the Gaping Dragon or Covetous Demon. I love the video, especially when yoj being up the original Japanese and symbolism that gets lost in the Western translation, it really helps fill put the story

[@SquatsAndOats2plate]

Watching EpicnameBro in 2010, theorizing lore: Damn, this game is so rich, this explains everything Vaatividya in 2012: Wow, he uncovered everything, no way one can go deeper Redgrave in 2016: Ok, this is it, how could the game lore be examined any further? Brilliant! Max Derrat/Illusory Wall and your Channel in 2021: Ok, I got it, this game/series can be and will be most likely still be a subject of debate and theorycrafting in decades to come.

[@gku93]

Good job man 🙌

[@robertbartlett5048]

This video has really helped cement my own head cannon on how fire, dark, light, life and death all connect. I've had many conversations with my friends about what exactly letting the flames fade would mean and I always thought that there could be no such thing as an age of dark because without the fire everything would return to the primordial age.

[@dynamicflashy]

Another excellent video.

[@WyldeCarde182]

If the Usurpation of Fire is a world created by a Hollow, a third option to the binary cycle, I see parallels to the path of the dragon striving for a third option. So if the usurpation of fire is similar to the path of the dragon, does this imply that a world made by hollows could be a colorless landscape, full of stone dragons, and covered in fog? Are we forever stuck in the cycle because we can not see a bigger picture?

[@erickgondo9408]

Excellent video Protag even I having disagreements with some topics you made great observations on the subject(one of the best here on youtube) . One more thing sorry for the poor quality of the footage I wish I could send some better lol

[@user-th7cw4dl3o]

I think in the beginning, when it talks about "With fire came disparity", FromSoft is trying to say that things define themselves in relation or in opposition to other things. The fire only brought light and heat, but with that light and heat, the dark and cold that were there before it all of a sudden could be defined. This is a very common part of human history, especially when you get into trying to figure out how different nations and peoples began to define themselves or were defined. In that sense, as you talk at around 20:20 - dark wouldn't disappear without fire. What provokes dark to define itself as a distinct being would disappear... but it's not like fire brought dark with it. It is that disparity that provokes us to define features of ourselves - men are defined only in relation to women, the human races are only defined when they clash with each other (just look at the emerging of "the white race" through history), we define ourselves in relation to others and the things they bring, the conflict and disparity we feel.

[@tacioob2337]

Awesome video ❤

[@meaningfulmindfulness15]

39:00 I believe there was some cut content involving the cyst-backed things. There was an enemy that had it's back break open and whatnot. Although I hope I'm not confusing games..

[@drunkenboxer123456]

This is really good coverage context of facts especially in lore can easily be lost in translation

[@ObiJuanKenob]

This is like low key enb high tier quality shit. Ggs you might be the best of the modern era of lore vids.

[@roundninja]

Ok so, it seems like if light and dark bring disparity and desire to the world, and if the abyss predates flame, then the true nature of the abyss is tied to the gray land of arch trees and dragons. If hollowing means giving up, losing your desire, then that could explain why the final form of some hollows in DS3 seems to be trees, as if hollows are just seeds of arch trees, and the world of DS3 itself, ashen and lifeless after many linkings of the flame, actually resembles the opening cutscene of DS1. Maybe it's kind of a stoic/buddhist message, the way to escape the misery of death is to fully give up, become unfeeling, and so bring back the age of arch trees and dragons? DS1 seems to be all about persistence in the face of adversity, but perhaps that's just one way of viewing it, the way that Gwyn wants us to view it, but the primordial serpents, who look like they're linked to the everlasting gray dragons, know that all struggle is futile because all paths eventually lead back to the age of arch trees. If fire wins everything becomes gray ash, and if dark wins then there's no light, so nothing to desire, and no shadows, meaning everything is gray and unfeeling again. Am I understanding here? This stuff has been driving me insane for over a decade.

[@daith_izumi]

And people said you couldn’t relate Dark Souls 2 to the other games

[@APalebloodSky]

My take was that the Abyss is a corruption of Dark, in the same way that Chaos is a corruption of Fire.

[@darkstalkerkaathe4582]

I agree to an extent. I believe the abyss is weaponized Dark. It is angry Dark

[@franciscodetonne4797]

(before I even watch the video) I always think of DS1 "metaphors" of "Dark" and "Flame"/"Fire" as the "corruption" of desires and ambitions. I call it "corruption" because that's how Aldia frames it. Humanity is nothing with them, but they can live on with the bare minimum, or with no will at all. But with the "corruption" of desires and ambitions (can also be called "wants"), humanity can create great things, but desires do corrupt. Humanity are lured toward "Dark" because it's where they're from. Just like how Vendrick feels "tranquil" near Nashandra. But "Dark", as pointed out by many Dark Spells in DS1, can also damage "hollows" (aka human), perhaps because the human that you fight do have some will, some "souls" left in them. And that "souls" give them will, and also a disadvantage, making human vulnerable to their own beginning - the "Dark". But the "Flames" never dies. "Flames" and "Dark" are just parts of a cycle, in Dark Souls.

[@franciscodetonne4797]

The "Dark" also has wild mutagenic properties.

[@mirceanicula9198]

it becomes more and more clear to me that the reason why people show so much interest and put so much effort and energy into understanding and unraveling the mysteries of the souls series is because these games lore and story is similar to the ones in world's mythologies and religions. There's truth and reality to these stories as there is in christianity or in budhism which shows the importance of these stories. We left christianity behind in the west but we still need a substitute so we are naturally drawn to these games which satisfy our need for meaning and a cohesive cosmos. I feel like the world is re-enchanted by these games. It rekindles our fascination for reality

[@PierreLucSex]

As a potter and fan of dark souls, and after nine years of philosophical studies in my youth, I'd say your clay cup metaphor was welcomed.

[@littleconan7929]

What if abyss was more linked to creatures ? Most of dark souls creatures seem to be born with the first flame. You could say, cast by a mix of shadow (dark) and light (flame). Those beings thus contain a part of dark and flame within themselves. But some beings try to pursue one specific path. In our case, path of the dark, then slowly killing their fire part until they obliterate it. Such beings become "unatural" and thus fall to the abyss. This seems consistant with the transformation of Magnus. From this moment, they become "flame devourers" (that would be why abyss weapons are efficient against gods) with such an aura flowing from their body. The aura also contaminates nearby beings as without their flame part, they become part of the abyss.

[@ryanschultz4119]

It's interesting how many misconceptions & misunderstandings there are of the Dark Soul's lore. Largely down to poor translation from Japanese to English. I really enjoy the content of the Dark Soul's creators. Who have an accurate understanding of Miyazaki's lore. Which is akin to solving a mystery, or putting together a vast puzzle. Great work!👍👊

[@erndeche1475]

The entire concept of formlessness or dark being things is a relic of the inability of the human mind to understand the concept of "not". Darkness is not a thing. It is the absence of a thing, namely light. Similarly, formlessness is not a thing, it is an absence of form. While both darkness and formlessness can be useful, they are not things. They are what you have when you lack something. To think of "not" as "is" is the fundamental madness, and the primal abstraction that undergirds the first sin of vainglory, which is to think of one's self as one is not.

[@WaryObserver]

I am amazed! A Dark Souls Video that not ignores DS2 completely. DS2 wasn't that bad of a game and was honestly a change of pace.

[@CommieApe]

Really great work LP as usual. It was cool seeing you cover a bit of Sekiro lore too.

[@core-nix1885]

30:30 You raise a good point. In DS2, the Old Sun Ring refers to an Old Sun, not an Old Ring - it's a reference to the occultism of Rudolf Steiner.

[@iWillWakeYouUp]

I always took Irina being "nibbled at" by creatures in the Dark as being the insects from the Deep. Maybe her fear has made her "stagnant" and that's why she feels the deep insects?

[@evilanno3394]

Great job