Mixing With Mike Plugin of the Week: UA Studer A800

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[@PuRe_AdDicT]

LUNA making this video relevant again Mike :)

[@sylviakelly3356]

As Always through and concise...hope UAD is paying you in for your work you're probably the single biggest contributer to their sales via KZbin !!!

[@mixingwithmike]

Thanks Sylvia! We have a good relationship for sure!

[@azulroi]

The best tutorial i've seen, so knowledgeable and helpful to simplify the workflow, Thank You Mike!

[@komenzmusic1342]

Thank you soo much Michael you never fail to dissappoint! Champ

[@supraroca88]

So which one is better for the mixbus? The ATR or Studer?

[@mathijazzz]

I wanna record into the Studer in Logic. Will it cause me too much latency?

[@mcsweet1966]

Hello Mike, I know it`s Old Video but I was wondering what is your take on it`s Input Volume. In the UAD manual they say that the sweet spot on this plugins is at -12 dbfs but since we have a Input Volume do we really need to get the signal at -12 dbfs before hitting the plugin or can we stay around -16 to -18 dbfs and just push more signal into it with the volume and what would be the difference ?

[@bachelorgamer8001]

I lOve you man

[@futuredoodofficial]

ah got some interesting bits of info here that i didn't anywhere else. 1) the meter is an average level and getting it to 0 we may be going over by 20 or 30db. it's amazing the stuff you know that's not in the quickstart guide from uad. thank you! 2) and this thing used to weigh 900 lb? we plugin users have it easy today! haha. makes me want to slow down on learning "new" plugins coming out today and go master some of these amazing emulations that are available to us

[@mixingwithmike]

Yes, the VU is meant to represent our perception of volume and so does not respond as well to the transient. It's a VERY imperfect system and requires a bit of use to understand fully. Cheers!

[@MegaSoteris]

Hey Mike.. Can you please tell me your opinion about Studer 800 or ampex 102?Uad both i mean.) I understand everything using for defferent element but generally speaking.. Thanks..!!

[@Achase4u]

Since you worked on these machines, do you feel like the UAD Studer does a good job of that sound?

[@mixingwithmike]

Yes, it is an excellent emulation of the A800. My only gripe, and this is true of most tape machine emulations, is that the VU metering is consistently 6 dB or so lower to get the sound I remember from the physical machine at 0VU.

[@Achase4u]

Michael - Thanks for the reply. It's funny you mention the metering. I was going to say that this emulation seems quite "dirty" for tape, but I think the sound is in there if you ignore the metering. They say the plugin is aligned internally at -12dbfs, but take 6db more and you get -18 and -6 VU which makes more sense and seems to sound better. I have an 80s MKII Otari 2 track that I've run Ampex 406 on, and you can really push it around before you hear much of anything it seems. One side question since I have never really worked with tape much - are there certain instruments that reveal distortion more easily in their sound on tape than others? I have noticed with these emu's and especially the UAD Studer that for instance a B3 organ really must be handled lower on the meters than most things like guitars and vocals. It gets hairy very quickly. Just curious. Thanks! Loving your videos!!!

[@Achase4u]

Michael - Thanks for the reply. It's funny you mention the metering. I was going to say that this emulation seems quite "dirty" for tape, but I think the sound is in there if you ignore the metering. They say the plugin is aligned internally at -12dbfs, but take 6db more and you get -18 and -6 VU which makes more sense and seems to sound better. I have an 80s MKII Otari 2 track that I've run Ampex 406 on, and you can really push it around before you hear much of anything it seems. One side question since I have never really worked with tape much - are there certain instruments that reveal distortion more easily in their sound on tape than others? I have noticed with these emu's and especially the UAD Studer that for instance a B3 organ really must be handled lower on the meters than most things like guitars and vocals. It gets hairy very quickly. Just curious. Thanks! Loving your videos!!!

[@jefgrootes]

Hi Mike, First of all I really like your videos and the way in which they help me to become a better music producer. I Still got a question on how to use the Studer A800 on fast transient material (a Kick drum or a Snare drum). I make House and Techno Music in the box and I can't seem to wrap my head around the way I should properly set up my studer as the first insert. The Sweetspot of the Studer is said to be around -12dBFS. which is measured in RMS, but since I'm using it on the Kick drum only, where would that leave me on the peak level of the Kick and does this mean that the VU meter on the Studer should hit 0VU or even more if I would want to have a more saturated sound? Having it set up this way already gives me the feeling that I haven't got much headroom left (should I just lower the output of the Studer plugin to make sure I would match the next sweetspot of say a 1176 with it's -18dBFS sweetspot) or is this simply the wrong way to set up the studer). How should I read the RMS levels of Fast Transient Material in general? I'm also looking in to the K - Meter System so I would really like to get a better insight on how to set up things properly and make sure I make music in the way that it is supposed to take advantage of all the plugins!!! Hope to hear from you soon! Jef

[@mixingwithmike]

+jefgrootes Hi Jef, I'm not exactly sure why they chose -12 as a ref since industry standard is -18. Perhaps because of the higher levels people record at and so much in-the-box sounds and samples. Personally, I don't think that the VUs on the Studer or the ATR 102 reflect what I m hearing. My general philosophy with Kicks and levels would be dependent on the sound. Techo Kicks that are very clicky I might set to -6 or -3 at peak. If it's more sustaining like an 808 then I will go higher up to 0. The basic rule of thumb is not just based on the sharpness of the transient peak but also the amount od sustain after. Softer transients and more sustain head up to 0. sharper transients will little sustain may go as low as -20. Some of the level setting techniques on the real machines also reflect crosstalk between channels which is removed in the plugin. A Clave recorded at 0 VU on track one could bleed all the way to tracks 4 or 5 on the real machine. The K - Meter System is a whole different animal and much more powerful overall for working in a DAW. VU meters are great for the visual of perceived volume but not nearly as accurate in actual volume measurements and the K-System. Cheers! Mike

[@jefgrootes]

+Michael White Thank you so much for the fast response!!! When I start my song creation I tend to start of with the kick and all the processing ( compression/Eq'ing...) it needs before moving on. Often I have other percussive elements but my first focus is to get the kick work properly with the bass. So during my song creation I'm already mixing while I'm still in the creation process. What would you suggest to be the method for creating headroom so later on I have enough for other elements I would introduce and later steps during the final mix or for the mastering engineer? How should I implement the K-System and use the plugins with their different sweetspots? I use Ableton and I really hate their Meters, so I'm looking for a good alternative which I can still use inside of Ableton. BX meter? (which has a K -meter setting as well, unfortunately it seems to give me different rms level readings than say Izotope Ozone when I'm using both on the same metering systems (non or K system). The Kicks in my case are not hip hop style 808 like, more 909 with distortion so I have enough space to introduce other basslines. to give you an idea of the type of sound I'm after this is a song that could represents it the best. U know the drill - Stacking Papers [Slap Funk - SLPFNK006] which you can find on youtube. Sorry specific question for such a specific case, but I can't seem to get things going without worrying too much about all the possible problems I might run in to. Thanks again for your time and knowledge!!! Jef

[@mixingwithmike]

Hi Jef, As long as the mix processing doesn't interfere with the creative workflow then all I can say is, whatever works, keep doing it. I would caution that mixing this way can easily lead to over processing and bigger sounds that make it harder to add new tracks and sounds in. The size and effectiveness of processing is more about its relationship to other sounds than it is about what it sounds like in solo or with only a few other tracks open. Regarding the K-System metering, don't get too caught up in mixing and recording by meter. I know Ableton meters leave a lot to be desired but it should never be at the expense of productivity. The metering systems from different manufacturers will have different scales. Look closely at the numbers for each and you will that they will be the same. the only other wy they can be offset is if they are set to different alignment standards. Industry standard is -18dbFS. One final bit of advice. If you look for problems you will become overwhelmed and not get anything done. Focus on being creative and address the technical issues as they arise. You will be more productive, create higher quality work and be happier at the end of the day. Cheers! Mike

[@mixingwithmike]

Have you tried stripping all of the processing away once you have finished the production and starting over with the mix? The problem with creating the way you are is that, when you start and the only thing in your production is just kick-sn-hh, and you can add all the processing you want, you will use up too much of the space that is available for the mix and will be constantly chasing this with every new sound. If you start the mix from scratch, after it is fully produced you will be forced to blend all the instruments first before processing and then know how big you can make each sound. If you try it this way, you should not have an issue with gain. Regarding the bx_meter and iZotope meter, you must have the level standard set differently. K-System is probably not the best metering protocol anyway. I use the LUFS system which even Bob Katz says is better than his K-System. I only use that in mastering. Any standard dBFS meter should work. set your mix levels so RMS is about -18 or so and the peak levels are about -6 on average and you should be good for mastering. Cheers! Mike

[@user-mr6xp6nk7q]

Studer are Swiss, actually. Same company as Revox.