MK8330 ISA Sound Card, PC MIDI & E-Wave Review - A Cut Price Orpheus?

[@jonessii]

I didn't see you mention this so sorry if I missed it... How much conventional memory, if any, do the drivers and mixer setup take in DOS?

[@ctrlaltrees]

Hi! Yes, that's a very good question that I probably should have mentioned. They both init the card and quit - nothing resident in memory. 🙂

[@pw1169]

“Centipedes in my vagina” lol @ the ad bottom right at 7:37! 🤣

[@ctrlaltrees]

Oh no! How did that get there!? 😉

[@jscollett]

I hope to see more recreations like this in the future. Not just for sound but for graphics and other cards as well.

[@ToddsNerdCave]

Woo. Since I'm getting back into DOS gaming, this is especially of interest to me.

[@alextirrellRI]

This was fantastic. I'm super impressed by the OPL3 emulation -- there's a fair amount of bad OPL3 emulation and this one was spot on.

[@a500]

I want one. Looking forward to payday. Love the midi breakout cable. Very creative (unlike Creative Labs).

[@BrassicGamer]

I think it's just incredible that projects like this exist. Thanks for the review :)

[@RetroBytesUK]

That looks like a very nice card, the whole video has made me want to dig out my external midi synth and hear what doom sounds like on it again.

[@Grus0]

I've been watching that thread for a while and it's great to see the launch. Really nicely demonstrated!

[@ctrlaltrees]

Thanks! I was very excited to finally get my hands on this card and I'm very glad that it lived up to my expectations.

[@RetrogradeScene]

It's great to see new cards being made. Sounded good to me!

[@rudodejong]

Thank you for reviewing this card. I ordered one right after watching this! :)

[@ctrlaltrees]

You're very welcome. I hope you enjoy it, it's a brilliant card!

[@Shmbler]

Great review. I love the OPL3 audio comparison. If you have a jobless Raspberry PI collecting dust, then you can get yourself a great MT32/GM synth almost for free with the mt32-pi project. It even works great on the PI2 (although not officially supported). Oh, and concerning 286 compatibility: I got many of my 16 bit ISA sound cards working on an XT class machine (Amstrad PC1512) by using the amazing UNISOUND config utility instead of those provided by the manufacturer.

[@ctrlaltrees]

Thanks! Yes, I've had a play with mt32-pi in the past, I really need to revisit it. I read in the Vogons thread that this card isn't officially supported by unisound (I probably should've mentioned that in the video) but I believe keropi has made enquiries about getting it added.

[@vswitchzero]

Great video! I think it’s awesome that there are brand new ISA sound cards being made in 2022. I bought a PC MIDI card recently and love it. Keropi does awesome work and I’d love to pick up one of these as well. I quite like the ESS chip on the e-wave. I have a Compaq ESS sound card that includes it. Very good all around sound in my opinion.

[@custardo]

Nice card. Not having the hanging note bug is a good reason to buy one.

[@petertorda5487]

Isn't amazing, how MT-32 sounds, especially in compare to Sound Canvas? Yes Sound Canvas has more realistic acoustic instruments, thanks to almost 4MB ROM, but overall sounds somehow thin/ plastic, while MT-32 sounds really more "massive" and professional, also it's Reverb processor sounds like real deal. Really to 35years old device it is quite impressive.

[@sukidable]

Man these products alone make me actually wanna build a vintage PC. Though if they released a pci-e one compatible with modern PCs you better believe I'd grab that right up. Idk how well that wold work though...

[@Lawnie10]

Soon we will reach the point where every component from our old 486 machines will have a modern recreation! Then nothing will stop us! NOTHING!

[@dennisp.2147]

In fairness, this uses a Chip from the late 90's. At some point those NOS parts WILL run out.

[@railsrust]

@@dennisp.2147 Fair enough. Although, much like the introduction of FPGA solutions and low volume PCB manufacturing, I think it's only a matter of time until we're able to get some actual low volume ASIC manufacturing for hobbyist projects. When that is, I have no idea. Clearly there is a need for such a thing, especially when you think about the fact that these hobbies are growing no shrinking. We need more permanent solutions at some point.

[@dennisp.2147]

@@railsrust It seems unlikely. The hobby might be growing, now. But, it's a small number of mainly middle-aged men, and therefore, niche. The volume isn't there for the sort of ROI that a fab house would require to make actual duplicate silicon or even ASICs for some long obsolete architecture.

[@lordwiadro83]

​@dennisp.2147 What you say is sadly true. We are a niche. Otherwise there would already be companies selling beige cases again, not the RGB crap of modern times.

[@BottIsNotABot]

Nice looking card, I am very tempted!

[@Vanessaira-Retro]

Amazing review Rees! Another incredible video as always.

[@ctrlaltrees]

You're too kind 🙂

[@timwright2986]

Interesting! Not watched the video yet (stuck in the office!) but I've got a PC Chips M590 motherboard with that same SoundPro chip on board and it's a very underrated, capable Sound Blaster compatible. Good to see it turning up in a standalone card!

[@JorgeCarvalho_web_dev]

Hi Sir! There are really nice audio chips, the problem is the poor implementation by the manufacturers on a card. Always cutting costs. Those cuts lead to add noise at the output, using caps not recommended, all sort of tricks to reduce cost, in the end we get a crappy product.

[@TrashfordKent]

Excellent, great timing as I’ve just got a pentium 2 and was looking for something to replace the vibra 16.

[@ctrlaltrees]

Nice! This would definitely be a great upgrade from a Vibra 😁

[@DaveVelociraptor]

I've ordered one! It's going in my Windows 98 Pentium 3 machine.

[@ctrlaltrees]

Perfect choice for that machine! Did you go for the E-Wave as well?

[@DaveVelociraptor]

@@ctrlaltrees no, I'm going for the MIDI breakout and it'll get connected to the mt32-pi.

[@zuldanfpv4634]

Still happy with your purchase?

[@DaveVelociraptor]

@@zuldanfpv4634 I am!

[@Skull_Gun]

0:22 can I ask where to get stands like that for displaying cards?

[@ctrlaltrees]

Sure! I got them from Amazon and usually use them for displaying my consoles, they're very sturdy and highly recommended: amzn.to/3b5SzpK

[@euclideszoto997]

I can't wait to get one. Hopefully soon.

[@railsrust]

You'd better be quick, then. They're doing the final run in a Limited Edition matte black.

[@euclideszoto997]

@@railsrust Hopefully Christmas will be quick enough.

[@AdamChristensen]

So, are there specific back alleys that I should check out if I visit the UK or are ISA cards handed out prevalently in all of them?

[@MrAlan1828]

I think this card would go well in my Sega TerraDrive 286 + IBM PC :)

[@ctrlaltrees]

Very nice! Just one thing to bear in mind - I couldn't get the PnP config utility to run on my 286. Maybe it uses some 386+ instructions. Also it seems this card isn't supported by UNISOUND yet. Perhaps there's an older driver out there somewhere that runs on 286 machines, but bear in mind that this chip was released in the late 90s so I suppose supporting them wasn't a priority.

[@sedrosken831]

I'd be curious to know if it sounds exactly the same in AdlibTracker -- the ESS AudioDrives sound exactly the same in Doom and Duke Nukem and such, but differ in subtle ways in a tracker that directly addresses the chips. I'm not saying the ESS is a bad clone or anything, it's quite good and actually more advanced than the real thing as the ESFM drivers in Windows can attest to, but it'd lend a lot of credence to the theory that CMI 1:1 cloned the OPL3 if they did sound demonstrably the same in a tracker. Also interesting to see is if it works properly with the Voyetra SuperSAPI! FM driver (for 4op FM MIDI) at port 388.

[@ctrlaltrees]

Interesting, I hadn't thought to test it with a tracker. That's a good call. If I get time I'll try to get it set up and get something up on my second channel.

[@Sa2si28]

That's like very nice !

[@MrAlan1828]

I'm lucky enought to have been collecting every Major sound card since I had switched from an Apple II "Mocking board" to PC from Convox, Disney sound thing (Parallel port) My first real sound card was the Adlib, following the Adlib Gold, Soon after the Gameblaster then Gravis Ultrasound, Max, ACE (ISA addon) to Creative's Sound Blasters AWE's, PnP all the way up to the Sould Blaster Gold (last ISA 16bit) then stopped collecting, the PCI wasn't much good for DOS games. I still have my trusty MPU-401 along with my MT-32, MT-100, CM32L, Sound Canvas and the Holy Grail they say the LAPC-1. So much card so much Pre-Pentium 4 PC so little space in my Mancave.....

[@overdriver99]

you can make your own video for demoing that :)

[@RetroSegaDev]

Crikey Wacky Wheels sounds like a totally different game lol

[@alexanderalfonsson5874]

What's the thing on top of your SC-55 in the video?

[@jonessii]

That's the Roland SC-155. It's like a desktop SC-55 with physical slider controls.

[@alexanderalfonsson5874]

@@jonessii great now I have another module to add to mu wishlist. XD

[@ctrlaltrees]

I actually sold my SC-55 and just kept the 155. Such a cool looking unit and stacks nicely with the SC-88. 😁

[@MotownBatman]

I gotta start collecting more Aluminum cans for the Deposit.. I need $$$

[@Null_Experis]

The CMI isn't an exact clone, it's a little softer and muddled, but it's incredibly hard to catch it unless you compare them side-by-side like that, and really only the triangles in the Doom song. That might actually be the passives or something doing that too, like over-filtering, it's so subtle.

[@ctrlaltrees]

Indeed, in reality nobody is going to be rapidly switching between the two like this so I'd say it's certainly close enough.

[@Null_Experis]

@@ctrlaltrees I'd like to see it tested on Quest for Glory 3, there's a drumroll that plays after you leave the city the first time, followed by the map theme and the instruments used tend to expose poor OPL clones pretty clearly.

[@Dan-TechAndMusic]

Should be noted, the Orpheus is using the YMF289B-S, rather than the YMF262. The difference in sound you describe is similar to what I've heard others describe between the YMF289 and 262, and it is likely that the clone OPL3 in the CMI8330 is more like the older YMF262 and its LS262/LS245 clones.

[@elamriti]

how much does it cost

[@ctrlaltrees]

Pricing wasn't finalised at the time of recording as this was pre-release, but it's now available for €95 over on pcmidi.eu, with the optional E-Wave addon costing an extra €40.

[@RodBeauvex]

I think this, like the Orpheus, doesn't support that weird ADPCM that some games use, like Duke Nukem II,

[@GianmarioScotti]

"Provided" as "given" or "lent for the review"? It's a huge difference.

[@MacMelmac]

The reload sound and the shotgun sound in Doom was better on the MK card, a bit more treble, crispier.

[@chinghong1660]

Are you daft? What sort of a STUPID comment is that?

[@u263a3]

Error 404 not found

[@jsrodman]

30 years later, and sound fonts still sound terrible. It was always a dumb solutions for games. Having the game simply provide the sounds was always the better idea.

[@ozzyp97]

It wasn't really an option before CD became widely adopted, pre-recorded music was entirely out of the question and even trackers would still eat up both storage and CPU time. A GUS could've helped with the latter, but not without sufficient market share. MIDI was the most efficient, had the lowest learning curve for most musicians and could be easily converted for the SB-compstible sound cards most everyone had. Yeah, it would've been nice if native OPL compositions we're more common, but if we're looking for the option that made the most sense from an industry pov, that's General MIDI. It also had a head start, thanks to the MT-32 laying the groundwork before trackers on PC were really a thing at all.

[@DeadMouseis]

Doom sounds like shet on both of those cards