You Are WRONG About "DOUBLE TAP 2.0" in Black Ops 6 ZOMBIES!

[@rafus431]

Doughnuts: How many charts have I made? Well, over here i made a graph breaking down my average charts per second…

[@nicksmith0015]

@@rafus431 I had a job in an office at one point and Microsoft Excel was the weapon of choice for most tasks so I was forced to learn more than the typical computer user. Once I learned how to do charts, tables, graphs, and other similar things I found my self doing like Doughnuts and making them all the time for no reason. So I get it. But at least he has a reason. And an audience. Mine was for no one hahahaha

[@xd3athclawx554]

average charts per video

[@emwols]

For me personally, I don’t hate the health of the zombies at high rounds. The thing I hate the most is that zombies speed and melee range are both increased to the point where training becomes impossible. Super sprinters are too fast to use normal weapons because sprinting away and the turning back to shoot gives you less than a second before that super sprinter is going to swipe at you from the distance that the Citadel swords deal damage from and it’s just too much

[@DracoDikaryon]

I agree, super sprinters are too much, I’d take the mangler spam over sprinters any day

[@lookatmyzombies9377]

Their speed is to compensate for our increased speed however their hit range and speed is crazy. Used to be able to run past a zombie but they side five you now

[@DrivingGod21]

I always had a feeling that the hit range for the zombies increased the further the rounds went on. I never tested it, or even looked into it, it was just a suspicion. But also, like, why??? If I could choose literally anything in this entire game to modify the difficulty, the zombie melee range would be the last thing I would change. That should not increase as the rounds go on. Pretty stupid.

[@deejeh9494]

Even with PhD Slider, they still side swipe you occasionally.

[@ChamAramis]

Sprinters run faster than your normal sprint, *seem* to have an increased range and swing faster than regular zombies. They do make training unviable as they'll rip through your armor pretty fast. I hate streak-spamming in this game, so what I ended up doing that carried me to round 77 on Citadelle is to stop training at 56 and just run the entire circuit from spawn to Deadshot, activate the trap, get to the other trap on the entrance to Speed Cola, activate it as well, get back to spawn through the entrance near the well. Rinse and repeat while killing any zombie that might block your path forwards with any sword. For Amalgams , pop up an Aether Shroud charge, stand in front of them blocking their path and just swing your sword until it dies. Very important to have the Expresso augment on Melee Machiatto.

[@sonatuh]

watched 3 seconds and it just made me realize how much doughnuts has changed my life trajectory on all fronts. thank you doughnuts.

[@Doughnuts]

Not sure if you're missing, but if you're serious, I'm glad I could be a, hopefully, positive influence! 😄

[@JGBloX-o8n]

​​@@Doughnutshey Doughnuts could we do a game if you do a live and add me in friend on cod bo6 please if tou want to add me its JGBloX and add me a message like "Hi its me Doughnuts" to be sure that is you and just to make you know you are the best KZbinr ever good job for your 100k and more

[@Andrewcwazeewabbit]

I'm the opposite. I loved mwz videos of his and watched 99 percent of them whereas now I only occasionally read the comment sections of his BO6 videos.

[@wtrpddles]

no cap

[@whitewidow9046]

​@@Doughnutshe's in jail now

[@andrewcullen2527]

I think having a perk/augement to effectively give us AP ammo or just straight up ignore armor is the only way I see it working. Its not so much an issue about HP, its about armor in my eyes. The armored zombies are the ones taking 2-3x the damage of a normal zombie that slow it down I feel

[@lrainwater1608]

@@andrewcullen2527 I’d rather take armored zombies over like 4 abominations spawning in 1 round

[@Marky-Mark1337]

Gun mod, tbh. Deadshot double damage is in the game but conditional

[@whitecliffgames]

The reveal at 6:58 is so good Intuitively it’s obvious that 2x-ing (actually, 2.66x-ing?) DPS is just completely unbalanceable, so I’ve been vocally against DT2.0 forever, but it’s super validating to see how not only does it ruin the already good 1-30 phase of the game, it doesn’t even fix the high round problem either. That long-tail Kills-per-Second graph in particular is a super cool visualization that definitely shows the psychological & philosophical (and possibly unsolvable) problem with an infinitely scaling round-based game mode. Awesome video, you were right, I DID like it, can’t wait for the next one!

[@danielj2709]

The addition of double tap is mandatory. It feels missing, in bo2 and bo3 with pack and double tap u were basically insta killing till round 30 and 35 with the good guns. And if it were brought back it would be exactly like the old games making the guns great in the beginning of the match and after round 50 bullet damage is not viable. It wouldn’t even be as good as the old games because of armored zombies and additional bosses.

[@unstookie]

Real recognises real

[@tabithal2977]

"completely unbalanceable" when pack-a-punch does exactly that, and you can do it three times. what makes DT2.0 special is that you fire 2 bullets. there's a reason why snipers used to be good and now they're kinda terrible. you can kill like 1 zombie with a sniper and then nothing else because the bullet has already hit the zombie. DT2 makes it so that you can kill 2 zombies with a sniper, making it actually usable for horde clearing. its not that you do double damage, its that you shoot two bullets. in the older games it also served a purpose in allowing better point generation, though that's gone now with the new point system

[@KryptoKn8]

I completely disagree. For one, we triple PAP and raise rarity now, stacking more and more damage. The core issue isn't DT2.0 it's the fact this entire system was made to replace it, only to be insufficient. Secondly, it is a HUGE difference whether you can kill 1.25 or 2.5 zombies on higher rounds. The numbers don't seem significant, but (just like doughnuts said) it will FEEEEEL different. You will feel the effects, you will feel twice as strong permanently for the rest of eternity. And for the special damage... you could easily just add damage attenuation to keep the 16-ish second ttk or whatever. Or you could make DT3.0 where it increases damage the longer you shoot, starting from base and going to 2x (or more) damage. That way early rounds won't suffer (which they wouldn't anyway cuz you're already OP as shit) and later rounds would feel more favorable to the players

[@BigM_TV]

The only thing I really disagree with is when you keep saying "People say the guns are trash [after R30 or so]. They really aren't" You keep basing that analysis on perfect damage. I'd really like you to put out a video or livestream of you doing a game where you get to R45-55 and live comment on it when you're not getting perfect headshots/damage outputs/hitting 100% of your shots while running, backpedaling, dodging Mangler cannons, Abomination lightning, Amalgam grabs, supersprinters. There's a major disconnect from theory (which is nice for analysis and graphs) to practice (which is what people are experiencing and complaining about)

[@Andrewcwazeewabbit]

@@BigM_TV A very good point! Also, many people still keep thinking of "the mangler squad" that came out at R31. Additionally, many players are happy to leave by R31. So it's still relatively easy to line up your critical kills. In higher rounds is more about salvage and kill streaks

[@PINPAL]

Absolutely, when running numbers like this there should definetly be some formulas to plug in average headshot percentage and average overall accuracy (hit vs miss) to calculate the real TTK.

[@TheDragonDesigns]

@@PINPAL yes since you can easily see your accuracy with guns in game by pressing ` on you keyboard on pc (under ESC), dunno what it is for controller

[@SalVitroNY]

Facts!

[@Idkimjustmeandiliketohavefun]

I love the way donuts talks, gives me E3 announcer nostalgia and those video reviews they use to play at GameStop

[@Calcium37]

20:00 If that graph is anything to go by, Double Tap could be totally viable (as a Wunderfizz-only perk). People could get it earlier and feel super OP, but only with a Perkaholic GobbleGum (which is an Epic tbf). I do think they should change the health cap (same value, but at a higher round), anything past about round 40 is just constant mutant injections and it's not actually challenging, or very fun). Very much in favour of adding PaP IV.

[@Doughnuts]

This is something I didn't articulate very well... This is why I'm more in favor of a PaP 4 rather than DT2.0. DT2.0 changes the entire progression, whereas PaP4 extends the progression. Good thoughts!

[@Calcium37]

@@Doughnuts Yeah, I agree. PaP IV makes more sense (if nothing else because you can't lose it by going down) than adding an early-round crutch perk that drops off at about round 40-45. Love the videos - keep up the great work.

[@KryptoKn8]

​@Doughnuts this is also something you didn't really talk about: all the numbers in this video are ideal, perfect numbers. Theoreticals. None of the info in this video is applicable until the high rounds to be realistic (due to zombie spawnrates, movement speed etc.). This entire video is based off of theoreticals while the in practice, it would look and feel alot different. Way more balanced than your numbers show here, noone here is aimbotting onto everyone's weak points the instant they spawn. That alone massive decreases PRACTICAL dps and kps

[@emwols]

I think the XMG has a pack a punch ability that makes it ramp up in fire rate so it’s fire rate over time is actually faster than 731 and therefore it’s DPS is higher than shown. Still not a good weapon either way. A pair let amazing video

[@NelsonCosby-p3h]

@@emwols the tanto does too

[@ProphetOfDoubt]

Bring back classic zombies

[@Swing_Bonnie]

I am glad what you mentioned at the end of the video because I have been saying this for weeks. People have been clamoring for Double Tap yet without realizing that there is already multiple ways to increase bullet damage already, but nobody notices because there isn't a new shiny perk machine with a lil' icon on the bottom signifying that damage. all the information telling you that you are doing more damage is either hidden in your augments or split 3 different ways across the screen. If you have played zombies for a while and really sat down and thought about it, Double Tap 2.0 falls off at around the same time in earlier games at around 25-35ish (obviously give-or-take depending on the gun). Why introduce a perk in which its entire identity is a instant large ramp up in damage and fire rate, not only when its features have been split across multiple mechanics, when Bo6's power progression is all about slowly reaching that peak.

[@CherryFlavoredAntacids]

But… cowboys can’t shoot slow, or they’ll end up below.

[@MEISMUDKIPS]

And if you need some help, reach for the rootbeer shelf

[@RealFlex111]

If I’m being honest I don’t mind it becoming not as viable from round 45-55 as long as double tap is included as well as it being only available through wonderfizz to not destroy the early rounds in older COD zombies double tap falls off nearing high rounds anyway

[@RealFlex111]

Making it easier for 15-20 rounds for one perk isn’t bad for rounds 25-40,45ish its a great addition for the game if you’ve played publicly you’ll know that it’s rare for casuals to even get to round 35 without quitting from dying anyway and it still allows skilled players that already get to round 55 anyway to have a little more viability and show more of that skill gap you still have 10 rounds 45-55 that people will still need to go through before health cap

[@indyj29]

Just lock double tap behind wunderfiz until round 25. It seems so simple to me. Round 40-50 being when your guns stop working so well feels a lot more satisfying then round 30ish.

[@killercat970]

Put this man in charge of game balancing!!! Genuinely love your nuanced breakdowns.

[@JSBC-f6p]

Awesome work. And the dark background...just yes. Pretty much agree with your conclusions about what should be done. Honestly it would make sense to have PAP 4, 5 and beyond, and same for weapon rarities. I would prefer that over adjusting the health cap, it would make essence and salvage actually matter for the higher rounds, I always end my games with a bunch of unused salvage and essence.

[@Cojosho97]

I would like to see the pack prices slightly scaled down to add that fourth tier (maybe 5k, 15k, 25k, 35k?). I find it very frustrating to want to swap a weapon mid-game and need 50k points and likely 5k salvage to do it. I also think zombies’ speed, hit distance, and damage are a bit unfair as the rounds go on, but that’s an issue because armor simply exists. I would like to play into the 40’s but my friends all refuse to play past 36 and will exfil no matter what.

[@nanceinthepants]

I think an interesting solution could be double tap having each rarity add 20/25% damage, and each pack a punch level adding 33% each level. This would give your weapons up to 4x DPS, which should help in the higher rounds. However, it would also use up the ammo 2x as fast. Using the 6x damage boost from glitching a weapon in the melee slot, round 55+ still instakills enemies (AR in 2 shots). This would tone that down a little to a more reasonable state and should make weapons viable at health cap.

[@Thexliberator]

@Doughnuts is doing the work! I really appreciate the passion and the clarity you bring to these topics so thank you!

[@TheCSquaredyt]

Great data and analysis on this! I think you make great points on the impact of dt2.0 being added and the idea of pap 4. One thing that I feel is that many people in the bo6 zombies community forget where we come from in earlier black ops titles. Getting to round 50 back then felt almost impossible for the average player but now we are able to get there much easier. Additionally with a health cap added we see many players be able to reach round 100 and beyond which is amazing for the community, but ends up being a very different game than the survival game it used to be. I would really love to hear more longtime high rounders opinions on how this game feels compared to the past games, hopefully that would give a more well rounded perspective of the state of higher rounds in bo6 :)

[@azmah8523]

Yea I've been thinking zombies needs to be made harder, not easier.

[@TheCSquaredyt]

@azmah8523 yeah, as a casual I personally enjoy it being easier as I can reach round 100+ on a map other than only revelations. But for high rounds, part of me wishes the health and amount of zombies were the same exponential growth in past games so the high rounds were more exciting from the viewer perspective, watching the elite players go for WRs

[@mudbugdude]

The problem with high rounding in this game is similar to the unstable rift in MWZ. Even NoahJ talked about how it would be nice to have a better variety. PAP 4 would be the same as DoubleTap, since each PAP basically doubles the damage.

[@WileyCatOFFICIAL]

what if to compensate when you pap you get one innate ammo mod so you can pap and then put one on to have 2 effects idk how much that would actually help your damage at high rounds but it would be fun

[@cooperlong462]

This would make grinding camos on pistols and most other guns so much nicer and less tedious/time consuming I'd very much enjoy this change

[@Feelineager]

Love the collection of all this data for zombies, and extremely interesting to go through the spreadsheets great work! I actually think the first 36ish rounds are really well balanced as that's usually where I'll exfil if I'm not doing an easter egg run. I really think elongating the zombie health buildup like you said or even nerfing armor a bit would go a long way to make weapons feel more usable for later rounds. I think that's why I like Citadelle so much more and actually find myself going into the 40s more often for a longer run, the amalgams and doppelghasts don't feel as tedious to fight and I actually feel like I can use me weapon to kill them instead of just seeing small blue damage numbers against the manglers. I really think armor makes weapons feel artificially weaker even if they aren't.

[@RawAustin]

Great video, glad to see you break it down so clearly. It should've been apparent to anyone that's actually played high rounds that double damage would solve nothing and only ruin the early-mid game's elegant balance. As far as solving high-rounds specifically goes, PaP 4+ and/or higher tier rarities like Legendary I, II, III, etc. seem like the best options since they can only be acquired when you're late enough into the game and keep points and salvage a little more relevant. I've still been racking my head over a way to bring double tap back so it doesn't outright break early game and remains fairly relevant upto the 50s, like a base +25% fire rate boost with a Classic Formula major augment upping it to 50%, as while that increases DPS it's accompanied by higher ammo consumption and more frequent reloading. Other augments could be stuff like the first 50% of your magazine gets fired much faster or hip-firing further increasing your fire rate. Things that would incentivize putting more thought into your attachments and other augments so they synergize and make using semi-auto weapons and shotguns more interesting. Maybe throw in other modifiers like the longer you continue spraying the tighter your spread and recoil get, or timing non-full-auto trigger pulls within a certain window after the next shot can actually be fired does double damage, I dunno. Can't say I've fully thought out the ramifications, but at the core of it I'd just like options that allow you to further tailor your gunplay and double-tap seems like a great opportunity to do that.

[@emillulic7387]

Dark mode is cooking but I'd try out a gray color I think that'd be best.

[@Shaftay]

That's a lotttaa data!!! I hope you figure out how they work out armour damage one day! Excellent effort as always. The devs have a lot of options to tweak. They could add something else to help break armour faster. Their change to the mangler wss pretty well received. You have a real reason to target the canon. Its a fine balance to strike. They have to keep some pressure on the player otherwise there is no challenge.

[@CrazyShoot]

The amount of work put in this videos is unbelievable. Thank you so much Doughnuts!

[@BaconEater666]

i think a double tap 1 would be fun to see, not to overpowered for the earlygame. idk what the augments would do, but that's the only way i see double tap returning

[@limpx336]

All this kinda means nothing, this is all perfect without moving around and surviving etc. Its like saying technically we don't need something because if you play perfectly in ideal conditions it would be over powered. In reality it would be fine because no one is playing perfectly.

[@RebirthRavenIX]

21:13 Perkaholic and on The House: Hi 😀

[@RealFlex111]

That isn’t bad though perkaholic and on the house are supposed to make you significantly stronger from the start anyway if anything it only boosts the value of having those gobblegums

[@RealFlex111]

That isn’t bad though perkaholic and on the house are supposed to make you significantly stronger from the start anyway if anything it only boosts the value of having those gobblegums

[@RebirthRavenIX]

@@RealFlex111 but it makes the game too easy

[@constantinovmaxim1249]

Great video, Doughnuts! Excellent analysis with both hand testing and graphs. Honestly, I agree with your points-I feel like Double Tap 2.0 would make things too easy, similar to Cold War. The best solution, since we do need a buff, would be to either add a 4th Pack-A-Punch tier that costs 60k (instead of 45k) due to its power or reintroduce Double Tap 1.0. This version could retain its original effect of increasing RPM by 33% without adding an extra bullet per shot. Alternatively, they could introduce an augment for Double Tap that boosts RPM by 50% for those wanting crazy DPS-similar to how Speed Cola increases base reload speed by 30%, with the classic augment pushing it to 50%. This perk would also make wonder weapons (other than swords) more viable by increasing their RPM. Let me know what you all think!

[@Gamer31o]

I also think you can have an augment where you either shoot two bullets always from your magazine or have a random chance to shoot a "double bullet" both kinda mimicking double tap 2.0 but not being to op

[@constantinovmaxim1249]

@ I like the random chance augment, would nicely balance it and whenever it happens, you would feel excitement because you decimated a boss quickly. 😂

[@comments-yi4to]

Incredible analysis, this channel truly has the best content available to the zombies community right now. Keep up the good work

[@ExcessiveTurtles]

It’s awesome to see someone who has true passion for zombies succeed. I haven’t seen another creator go into this much detail

[@jakegianino5762]

The problem in this game isn’t weapon damage, it’s points and high round zombie scaling. Points used to be ample and round 30 zombies used to be the same as round 150 zombies, just with exponentially more health and more zombies per round. Now if a round 50+ zombie looks at you, it instadowns you.

[@user_breathless]

I don’t think weapons are too weak, never have. I just miss double tap, I don’t know just felt cooler as a perk rather than rarities which I assume is what replaced it

[@viniciuspaiva8932]

i dont like the fact that, due to rarities and multiple PaP tiers, we can't switch up our guns midway through. Beause of that, i disagree with the 4th PaP tier idea. For an exemple, right now i actually have a round 42 saved match of Citadelle that i originally entered to get gold on a gun, but if i want to switch to another one, i need to first have enough points for the box and then have freaking 50k to triple pack it. I just dont feel like doing that. Thats actually a stats video i'd love to watch, what if we had only one PaP tier (for special purposes like increase mag sizes, Sally and Forth etc) but multiple raritie tiers making the max rarity just like the max damage we have today. How much more or less time would we need to achieve that with salvage compared to the standard of today? I keep thinking about this because the wall and box weapons rarities scale up with the rounds, so if i'm in round 60 and can't stand the Sally anymore, i can buy a box and get a max rarity gun and simply spend 5k on it and move on with my life. i also like this idea for slavage purposes. i dont like to spam killstreaks, i cant explain why but i rarely ever use them. as an old player, i like to min max my resources, so hoarding salvage if fun to me lol. after i get orange tier, i basically don't use salvage anymore, adding more tiers would make me have a longer grind each game

[@bobthebuilder9509]

Switching weapons up partway through definitely is a huge negative of BO6’s current system and is why I usually prioritize perks/armor over upgrades so I don’t “waste” salvage/money on a gun if I get a gold one out of armories or fire sales. I think what could be a nice solution would be the ability to “strip” a weapon of upgrades and receive a part of the salvage/essence spent on upgrades- kinda like the T3 grave EE on MWZ.

[@Stone7178]

The old scoring system made double tap a more efficient way to farm points with weak bullet weapons by obviously shooting 2 bullets in place of one, conserving ammo to generate more on hit points. We don't have that anymore, but I'm curious if they would implement some sort of essence boost as a main feature of double tap, and maybe leave out the bonus damage. I feel they have to include the double fire rate though, it was too much fun testing rapid fire on top of rapid fire attachments, i think that's what people loved about it most.

[@alisinger7087]

Keep up the great effort man, love your videos you deserve a lot more subscribers!

[@hazpai]

Just my own thought, since there is an upgrade system upon rarity of your weapons, I'm surprised we haven't considered the idea of having 'Ultra' rarity (wonder weapon rarity) on weapons which can be accessed through the arsenal, an aether tool of this rarity being randomly dropped from an elite enemy in higher rounds, looted or even a chance for it to be rewarded in a SAM trial during the rounds where weapons start to fall off. I can see the benefit in a 'Ultra' aether tool that gives the rarity of the wonder weapons to your regular held weapon. Granted, some weapons will out perform others based on their DPS and TTK but it would be a nice touch to see the possible outcome of this additional weapon rarity upgrade. Let alone, it won't be easily obtainable early rounds as I imagine the cost for this rarity, without it being looted or earned through the SAM trials, might estimate to about 25-30k in salvage, reasonable amount due to the based 'common' rarity to 'legendary' rarity being 10k salvage. I think the tier 4 pAp is a nice touch and would help with the viable use of regular weapons, but the rarity upon the weapon makes a lot of the difference in itself.

[@th3onlychampion]

i feel like if double tap returns, its gonna be double tap 1.0

[@brutace9219]

Honestly I dont know if guns need to be more powerful. Thats why WWs exist. The jetguns really good, they said they're buffing the swords, honestly all I think I need now is a beamsmasher buff. I dont mind my guns getting weaker, but on terminus I'm still using my weak guns at round 50 because the beamsmasher just sucks.

[@juddoconnor328]

Doughnuts, you are the greatest! Love your attention to detail and true passion. I’m really hoping you get the chance to do YT full time soon - I get excited every time I get a notification for a new video. Keep up the great work! 😄

[@coloneljack443]

Hey donuts in the future can you see about using different symbols for the lines if your comparing things? Like at 22:47 if you used squares for the double tap lines and kept circles for the base/current lines it would be easier to read. Really cool and interesting perspective though! Always a treat to watch or listen to your videos!

[@Doughnuts]

Genius! Thank you! I should've done that!

[@coloneljack443]

@ no problem! I just happen to have been dealing with lots of graphs and plots for reports this past semester 😅

[@a7xzombiekiller-130]

Ok I see a simple solution but maybe complex in implementation. Make a perk you can call it double tap 3.0 but what it will truly do is scale based on the round you are on. It will have a minimum percentage increase and a maximum that caps out after a certain level. So if you buy this perk early in your game it will only give you a small rate of fire increase maybe making your gun feel a little better but not obliterating everything in its path for the next 25 rounds. Then when you reach higher and higher levels it will gradually increase fire rate until it finally caps out making the difficulty feel more balanced. Early game can still be some what fun (let’s face it it’s already super easy) and then it can help make 30-60ish more fun with bullet guns ( by the way I think people are crazy saying guns don’t work past 25 or 30. They just want it to instant kill them lol) but it would still maintain difficulty in those rounds. But here is the thing… they could just do that as a patch and not make you have to buy a perk for it and balance the levels better making the perk pointless anyways. I don’t think double tap will come unless people cry hard enough for it then they maybe might cave but it will ruin the balance of the game where they will have to up the difficulty and we will be right back where we started except now you have to spend extra points or be disadvantage more then before. They have balanced the guns to not have it.

[@ReZoTitan]

Thankyou for putting in all of this effort

[@Donovan-sy2sk]

If double tap comes back it would need to be reworked to fit the game better.

[@SkyRunner21]

This game without double tap, past round 35 is literally a torture! You have ro camp in a corner and get kills with score streaks and the jet gun which is only available on one map! It's just ridiculous how underpowered you feel past round 45 and especially 55.

[@0hioboy]

Had to give this video a like after i saw that first graph 😂 that is great work, man, and i know we all appreciate it.

[@thomasogradys5148]

Mr doughnuts I have mental disorders and I love your nerd approach to zombies and IM HERE FOR IT. please keep these colors for future videos!!!

[@everettvivian6665]

Double tap should be a “secret perk” for having all perks. Similar to how bo4 gave extra boosts to players when they had 4 perks.

[@tomahawk1495]

The main thing this cemented to be was how much rarities just dont belong in zombies. Scrap them and just have touble tap insted and it would balance out

[@ImminentFates]

Only found you recently and man these videos are bangers

[@milo662]

Adding 2x bullets will make dead shot's 3rd major augument OP. Not to mention ammo mods and elementql pop.

[@xd3athclawx554]

they need to add a 4th pack tier at like 100-200k points I think. Make it so that the earliest you can physically get it is like mid 60s. DT2.0 is too broken for the game because you could access it at any point due to the way perks work but if they incorporated it into it being locked behind a large amount of points it would force people to only be able to afford it later in progression instead. Seeing the graph of how the weapons taper off around the 50s and so on really makes it feel like there needs to be some sort of spike in damage or power there. Obviously an infinitely scaling round based mode is impossible to actually balance as you cannot balance infinitely and maybe the devs just think that the 55 health cap is enough.

[@fairycat2123]

Just started the video, but I don't think we need double tap 2.0, we need a double tap 3.0. My thoughts on the matter are, (mind you, the number is maybe too big or small, they can be adjusted. Bace double tap: Rate of fire increased by 20% 20% chance to fire twice. Major augments can be something like: Significantly increase fire rate bonus, (from 20% to 45%) but remove chance to fire twice Significantly increased chance to fire twice (20% to 45%) but remove fire rate bonus shots fired additionally have a chance to be taken from stockpile (20%) You decide for the minor augments

[@CherryFlavoredAntacids]

Treyarch should hire you, instead of using AI

[@chrisd848]

So basically just a nerfed version of double tap 2.0? Somewhere in-between 1.0 and 2.0?

[@andrewcullen2527]

I feel like there would be no reason to run the first or third augment, just the middle. RoF w/o the bonus shot would be pretty useless as fast guns don't really need the speed they need the damage. The single fire and bolt may want it, but still probably be better to just deal double damage. The bottom makes no sense as the whole draw of Double Tap is 2 shots for the cost of 1, so taking from the stockpile defeats the bonus. And even with the middle augment less then half the shots being double damage also just doesn't feel good. Overall still feels like a good idea to have augments be a way to make it stand out from OG and 2.0 but this isn't it

[@LORD_SHELDON]

@@fairycat2123 Glad you are no Developer

[@fairycat2123]

@@LORD_SHELDON you know this is exactly the kind of suggestion they would get when asking a group of devs that work on a game like bo6, They would get many suggestions like this, many many suggestions, they would labor over deciding whether or not it is a reasonable decision to go with something like that. Before ultimately picking the one that would make the least people unhappy, because that one would likely make them the most money as well. It takes a hundred good suggestions to find one that's actually great.

[@jasonhounsell3297]

I play higher rounds usually. A solo game I’ll usually leave around round 50 as it’s a bit long by then, assuming I’m not doing a run for 100+ rounds. I don’t really mind the game play after round 30, strats change a bit though. Guns that have high burst damage where you can turn, unload a lot of damage in a few shots, then turn again are better. Throwing axes legit are the best lethal all game, on round 45, a horde is coming, 30% look armoured and you just unload your gun and throw 4 or 5 axes and it insta kills 16-20 zombies armoured or not, using the stamina perk to move faster after equipment you turbo speed away and circle round to pick up your axes after another volley. Guns are not as good, but you use your full kit, phd slide into them, throwing axe barrage, the new vulture let’s you add some monkeys and kasmeirs for more dps, your gun to pick off unarmoured and spiders, kill streaks that drop and you can use while keeping your get out of jail one. The squads I’ve randomly played with however die and feel bad because they just stand and spray, run around abit and do it again, by rounds 30 and especially after 40 they are harassed by fast zombies so can’t even stand and spray without taking a beating, combined with the lower time to kill, they are useless and have to sit on traps the rest of the game then feel terrible.

[@gilsthyname256]

It’s hard to honestly tell if double tap would do anything. Cuz technically it doubles your ammo shot/hit. So no matter what it should just give you more damage numbers. Augments just play a bigger role this time around. If anything just use the Svu sniper, It’s technically the only weapon that becomes triple tap and is working with what the game will determine what each built should do. Also I noticed all the snipers have very unique pack-a-punch abilities and the dm-10 is the only single shot that upgrades to straight auto based on how fast your semi auto becomes

[@OneTrickToni]

My only complaint about adding another pack level is that it already cost 50k points to get the first three pack levels... just for one gun. I feel like the current points system would really be put to the test if they add another tier

[@caidenbyrd1864]

Melee glitch makes your round 40s feel like the round 20s IMO round 50 was fun as hell dodging the super sprinters while actually having a fighting chance

[@edmonddantes6051]

All my bois love Doughnuts

[@brooklynfernandez645]

Increase the price of PAP and the power of it. This way we have a more equal graph over a 50 round game. Even increase the strength and price of weapon rarity imo.

[@VictisII]

If double tap 2.0 is added I wouldn’t mind if bullet weapon damage is boosted to 1.5x rather than 2.0x but if it is 2.0x then the zombies would have to have a slight health increase to balance

[@lemonstanders6162]

What about possible augments that could really help out like even higher fire rate and/ or more bullets shot than 2 idk might help

[@jamesmcfadden5214]

I like the white backround. My eyesights bad lmfao

[@awesomestevie27]

Sigma Bo3 Devs “add it anyways” 🗿 Meanwhile Bo6 devs “but the data” 🤓 “It’s not fair for the zombies” “It’s not balanced”

[@_yaboi_O1]

My issue with the difficulty is not necessary that gun damage falls off after lvl 25-30. But earning points is nearly impossible. Go down once and you may never earn enough points back to stay in the fight

[@MPBno2]

I think a good idea to make doubletap feel nice is to raise the base damage percentage per round starting at (+15%dmg & r.o.f. increase = round1) and working it’s way to (+30%dmg & r.o.f. increase = round30) as the game progresses…

[@PeytonTrout]

I don’t here anyone talking about it, but i think the super fast zombies are probably one of the most annoying things they could’ve added, on high rounds you have to be in a score streak or spamming a sigma at the ground just to not get hit by them, makes any round past 41 just not enjoyable and super sweaty

[@prettymucheverything1033]

I hope near the end of the bo6 lifecycle, we get a new row of augments to research and they allow us to equip one more augment each

[@ChickenEnchiladaChili]

I’ve been on the side of not wanting double tap cause, although I was never sure the stats would back me up, I felt like it wouldn’t make a big difference in the late game like people want it to. With that said it would be really cool if bullet weapons were viable up until you’re approaching round 100. Maybe like round 80-90 they fall off? But it wouldn’t be just as simple as tuning damage numbers. It would have to be like a final PaP stage or weapon rarity that only unlocks on the map at round 35 or something. Maybe you could have it like execute zombies below a certain health %, deal bonus penetration dmg, bonus dmg to armor, boost in fire rate, aoe bullet dmg, etc. I wonder what could be done

[@jacobtownsend408]

I think that we need a new double tap, not just adding in double tap 2.0. perhaps instead of just being a flat 2x multiplier perhaps it can be a percentage increase that grows with zombie health until it reaches a maximum at health cap. So like at low rounds it will be a 5 or 10% of zombie health added as extra damage to each bullet. But as you get higher in the rounds that percentage will increase until it's around 30% of zombie health applied as extra damage once the zombies reach health cap. Stopping the lower rounds from completely being destroyed by double damage while also ensuring guns can be viable at health cap

[@ignis_infinitus_infernus]

I'm okay with the health but maybe increased the activation and damage of ammo mods like in BO3.

[@KrazeemSB2]

@@ignis_infinitus_infernus I got to round 42 (no gums) in the starting room of Citadel des morts because of ammo mods. Just use Brain rot (With the distraction and explosion Augments) and shadow rift (with big game to one shot amalgams.) you could also use the lightning strick Augment with dead wire so you destroy the bugs so they don't evolve into doppleghast.

[@callofdeeds3959]

Love your dedication to the analytics while making it all about the fun @dougnuts keep ‘em coming! 🤙

[@gustavblackwell1494]

You've changed my mind from double tap fan to quad pac enjoyer

[@rapman918]

man, i love your content soo much, really tickles that spot. great work and much love🖤

[@SethizFTW]

A better response to increased damage is to utilize the uniqueness of ammo mods. I am more looking at Cryofreeze, like doing % damage to frozen zombies, like 1% max health per shot added to regular damage, or an ammo mod that allows to do a similar effect and say the zombies are "weak" against it. The cryofreeze route would be better since it would synergize with the frozen cloud augment.

[@theesterlingshow]

I think they could add double tap 1.0. Just double the fire rate. It’ll increase the fire rate. That plus rapid fire would hopefully increase the fire rate enough to be effective

[@papasivir4241]

They could make it just increase the fire rate and have other augments or they could do double tap 3.0 that will actually scale the damage multiplier up until a specific cap with the rounds. It's an interesting idea.

[@papasivir4241]

That way it won't make an utterly insane difference in the early rounds but then it will start helping a little bit more on the higher rounds. Potentially reaching its damage multiplier cap at round 100 making the double tap Root beer enjoyers happy so they can just see the nostalgic root beer can and making sure that the balance isn't instantly obliterated upon its release. On your point of it being weird to add another way to upgrade your damage I think this idea would be interesting because it would be a passive damage multiplier whereas the others are just bulk damage multipliers. Makes it slightly different. There's all types of passives and immediate effects in other genres of games that will do similar things but just in different ways.

[@yourgoodfriend276]

I hate how all people attribute to Double Tap being good is the damage. I thought Cold War illustrated very well that it simply is not fun to have about a third of the weapons in the game be completely non-viable after round 30 due to fire rate restrictions. This is especially true of weapons that cannot penetrate enemies well (if at all). The worst weapons to grind in Cold War (and the few that exist in BO6 now) are the ones that can only damage 1-2 targets per second. That 50% fire rate increase from Double Tap, yeah, will make good weapons better, but it also makes bad weapons viable. In that regard, Augments to a hypothetical Double Tap would ideally not focus on raw damage output, but *crowd control*. Increased fire rate. Bullet penetration. That kind of thing. Because as it stands, full auto weapons like LMGs and ARs are able to, without ammo mods, damage upwards of 4 zombies per shot when firing 5 shots a second. Something like the Marine SP is annoying in early rounds, an absolute slog to use in those mid rounds, and borderline impossible to use effectively in later ones because you are only going to be dealing noticable damage to maybe 2 enemies at a time. As we get more weapons added to the game, more weapons will fall into that category of "If I could fire off one more shot per second this would actually be okay". Also, balancing anything in this game based on high rounds is super silly. Most high round gameplay already is a game of patience more than anything. With ammo mods, buyable ammo, vulture aid, instant-kill equipment and streaks, it really already has been figured out. And that is all ignoring the fact that most players do not go to high rounds. They play until the game gets boring or tedious, which is usually at most what, 50?

[@phxzombiekiller7112]

@yourgoodfriend276 I completely agree. I remember that everyone would shit on Double Tap 1.0 in Black Ops 1 saying it was just an ammo waster. But a couple of guns got insane from Double Tap 1.0. From my memory, the Ray Gun, HK-21, HS-10, G11, MP-40, STG-44, RPK, CZ-75, and M1 Carbine all got significantly better after Double Tap was bought while the "best" guns got little increase since they killed fast enough anyway. It was a Perk that brought every gun to an even playing field, and that helped with the uncapped fire rate on most pistols

[@purrowpet]

If it's a question of killing more zombies or killing stronger zombies, id rather lower the health cap (and rate of increase) and replace it with equivalent health in extra zombies. This sounds pointless, but it actually means you build up more points because theres more points available per round. I also like the idea of a 4th pack but more points is the only way it's possible. You're onto something with the "6 kills per second" thing and it revealed to me why I can train in BO3 for eternity. It's because in every map you have some way to kill at least that many zombies per second, indefinitely.

[@skylerskroch]

They could just drop double tap with like a 1.5x damage buff and have some augments and such for armor. And I think it would feel much better but not be crazy strong. Just something to help you through the 30-40 round range. Im not a high round player but I do enjoy being able to get to round 40 and still have fun. The way it is right now is that it's just annoying to get there.

[@Bean_Burritoe124]

I have a suggestion to make for the weapon camo tracker you made, I've been messing around with it and I've realized that the percentages don't add up properly and you'll end up obtaining min nebula percentage for a group without even getting afterlife yet, as well as some of them don't have it unlocked despite all of them being marked as nebula, and I think that a possible issue for the total nebula min percentage is the fact that special weapons are separated from launchers despite being in the same camo group (if I remember correctly that is)

[@papaxsnickerson1806]

The double tap perk needs to double the fire rate, and double the damage of each gun. If a gun’s double damage doesn’t equal a full zombie (example: one clip kills a zombie and a 3rd of another zombie, double tapped equipped causes it to kill 2 zombies and 2/3 of another zombie hence the double damage) in that specific case the game would adjust (round up) and that 3rd zombie would die even though technically you only had enough damage in the mag left to kill 2/3 of that zombie. This would make those odd/ weak guns viable and make double tap actually feel like double tap. Then you could add in the augments to be like (15% chance of full armor break on elites) and (15% increase of damage on first shot against full health zombies) like I’m sure they have the numbers and could adjust to fit the system to make double tap actually feel like double tap. B/c like you’ve said in your video it wouldn’t make that much of a difference like people think it would b/c of the current system in place. It’s kinda like how the perk first came to be in waw. In waw it didn’t double the damage it only doubled the speed in which the gun fired. Then they updated it in later zombies to do both. They honestly could drop the perk to just double the fire rate. Then make the augments increase the damage side of things then it could be a major augment to affect elites and minor augments to affect basic zombies. That honestly might be a great option. Anyways regardless I’m having fun playing zombies and so are my friends even with the pains and bugs that are happening in game rn.

[@brodybagster]

As someone with autism I love the graphs

[@lonewolf-0459]

Upon getting to 1:40 in the video my immediate response was "The numbers Mason, what do they mean? Where's the broadcast station?" That's definitely a lot of numbers and a lot of data.

[@kylekestler6581]

I have over 200k kills with the xmg.... damn i didnt realize it was apparently trash lol

[@john12w95]

Jesus here we go again 🤓🤝🏻🤓

[@Gr3gLMAO]

Holy I was trying to make a graph like this manually but it was too overwhelming to start. I also wanted to do one about politics and world building and power systems

[@nodents3823]

Man! You have been so consistent uploading and putting out quality videos. Keep it up bro and thank you for all you do🫡

[@spegwettie9053]

Have you tested how many armored zombies there are per round, and how much it time would they add to these graphs? I really like your suggestion of removing the helmets to reward headshots and keep TTK the same across all regular zombies.

[@Cristian_D63]

I think the speed of high rounds is too oppressive to where people are being forced into camping strats which is what makes them feel boring. Kinda like how a 10 minute car ride is more enjoyable if you travel 5 miles vs 10 minutes car ride where you're bumper to bumper and only travel 1 mile but you both reach the same destination. At the same time. Also I think vermin are bugged and deal way too much damage sometimes.

[@panda_pls]

It's interesting how many things play into bullet weapons feeling weak at a certain point and Double Tap not really being useful if it was in the game. The decision to only put Vulture Aid in the Wonderfizz on older maps, essentially making the "early resource gathering" aspect of the perk non existent, would make Double Tap a lot less useful. Ammo mods being either non-lethal, taking forever to kill a decent number of zombies, and/or having way too long cooldown rates make them not viable for higher rounds. Zombie health increasing exponentially and only reaching a cap once it is too high is the biggest problem. I don't think adding Double Tap is a good idea/solution. It would just be another mandatory crutch perk (a lot less problematic in a game where you can always buy every perk) that fights a symptom, but not the real problem. The best ways of tackling this would be either to introduce a higher tier of weapon upgrades, lower the rate at which zombies gain health, or cap the health a lot sooner. High rounds in BO3 and 4 (the games where I did a lot of high rounds) were more enjoyable. Training zombies was still a viable way of playing and it became a question of endurance and focus, since a small mistake could mean your end. Here in BO6 it always turns into "and now that we are done with the setup, we are going to sit in this corner with the Wonder Weapon, activate your field upgrade when too many special zombies spawn, use the mangler injection/chopper gunner against elites". Yesterday, I finally played to round 100 for the Dark Ops challenge. I used the Light Sword strategy you showed in a video, but stayed at the water slide in the Pack-a-Punch room, and used Frenzy Guard. I did have a situation where my carelessness got me killed, and I got another down while trying to buy perks, but otherwise I went through that with little effort. It simply wasn't fun. I don't think I will do it again any time soon. The last 14 rounds, I just spammed Mangler Injections.

[@OGBugEyes88]

So my opinion is if the round cap is 999 then why would you want to health cap the zombies at such an “early” round at 55? So I agree with what you’re saying about stretching the zombies health to a higher round to give the player a chance to play 1 game longer instead of having to exfil and start over.

[@filippogironi3456]

I would still prefer Double tap 2.0 being in the game rather than a 4th PaP level, here's why: 1) Double Tap is 1 one of the 4 Og Perks and is still missing since Bo4, and it's 100% a fan favorite perk. 2) Pap IV would cost way too much points, bringing your gun to PaP III and legendary rarity already costs you 50k points and a shit ton of salvage (10k), adding another PaP level would further increase the price to upgrade ONLY 1 SINGLE WEAPON bringing to the table other problems like: why would I ever spin the box if I already have so much progression to go through? [Problem started by the loadout system, but it would increase even more with a 4th level of PaP] 3) We aren't counting augments, maybe the proper augments on Double Tap could resolve the high round problem reaching that 5 kps (in a pratical way though, because in this game theory it's very different to apply in practice during high rounds) Thank you for reading and sorry for any possible mistake while writing this message (english is not my first language😅).

[@SuperAaronbennett]

Love the information but I think its important to also include the speed and sheer number of zombies you are facing in the higher rounds. PAP 3 just isnt cutting it, even with the melee weapon glitch the higher rounds are still difficult to deal with b/c the number of zombies and speed of them surrounding you. The GS45s are somewhat annoying b/c the ammo capacity is too low and you are constantly having to purchase ammo, even with vulture aid.

[@TAllent3d]

Bro you are INSANE!!!!! I love it! GGS You the man

[@skylerskroch]

I don't think anybody is saying they want round 100 to be easy and i don't think looking at numbers and saying "instakilling weapons" in the high rounds is fair when at those high rounds the boss enemies are so common and the armored zombies are so common. I think most people are just saying they want to be able to have fun when going for like round 50 and not have to sit in a corner with a wonder weapon to get to relatively low round.

[@ulyssesnone4601]

This is incredible. It's so dense with info and the application of that data presented so well... my hat is off to you sir! I hope for Double Tap 2.0 lol Edit: because I love the icon and the throwback would be great

[@jacobdoesrandom8401]

What if they added another weapon rarity after legendary? That would cause people to use guns longer and would slow down the use of injections or chopper gunners until later-later rounds

[@Austin_Bourque_]

If this game was coming off of bo1 and waw then I think the round 30 complaints wouldn’t be a big issue. 30 used to be 50 back in those days. Just stretch the graph so 50 feels like 30 and people will quit complaining bc they can hit 50 and that’s the round goal now😂

[@brooklynfernandez645]

When does the challenge set in? Why go to round 100 if it is easy? And honestly how many people are going 50 rounds plus.

[@luucamNY]

i just want to be training zombies next to the M16 on tranzit while my gun STILL kills after round 50 with just 1 PAP