I Hate Ganondorf In Smash.

If you’re ever injured in an accident, you can check out Morgan & Morgan. To start your claim in 8 clicks or less without leaving your couch, visit ForThePeople.com/MockRock
There's no sugarcoating it...Ganondorf has had a rough go in Super Smash Bros. Not only has he floundered on tier lists, but he also has the dubious honour of being the single worst-represented character in Smash, with a moveset still full of Captain Falcon rip-offs decades in the making. So let's do something about it.
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Music used:
"Demon King Ganondorf Battle" - Tears of the Kingdom OST
"MockRock Is Here" - MockRock
"Ceaseless Gaze" - MockRock
"Silent Guardians" - Hyrule Warriors OST
"Hyrule Castle" - Breath of the Wild OST
"Ganondorf" - Twilight Princess OST
"Gerudo Desert (FamilyJules Remix)" - Cadence of Hyrule OST
"Yuga-Ganon Battle" - A Link Between Worlds OST
"Ganondorf Battle" - Ocarina of Time OST
"Ganon Battle" - Cadence of Hyrule OST
"Demise" - Skyward Sword OST
All original music, as well as its stems, are available for download to patrons, KZbin members, and Twitch subscribers.
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0:00 Intro
5:24 Aesthetics
10:11 Gameplay Style and Direction
14:37 Normals
23:59 Aerials
28:06 Specials
35:18 Grabs and Throws
38:24 Misc., Final Smash, and Outro
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Thanks for watching!
#smashultimate #tearsofthekingdom #thelegendofzelda

[@MrMockRock]

If you’re ever injured in an accident, you can check out Morgan & Morgan. To start your claim in 8 clicks or less without leaving your couch, visit ForThePeople.com/MockRock Thanks for watching everyone! Ganondorf can be a contentious character in the Smash series on both sides, what did you think of this moveset concept? *Patreon:* www.patreon.com/mockrock *Second channel:* kzbin.info *Twitter:* twitter.com/MrMockRock *Twitch:* www.twitch.tv/mockrocktwitch *Teespring:* teespring.com/stores/mockrock *TimeBolt affiliate link* (excellent software I use to speed up editing on my videos, use code "MOCKROCK" for a discount): mockrock--timebolt.thrivecart.com/order-page/

[@cassiuspeter9673]

Mockrock, We've talked about this before, don't die during a recording. That includes wearing something that makes you sweat enough to deliquesce. No one here wants to see you die. Well, except Kevin. But honestly, F%$k you Kevin. Other than that, this video was simply top-notch. I can tell how much research and planning went into creating this character, and the end result is a genuinely amazing sounding character, and a very entertaining watch. Honestly, if I went detail about everything I liked here, I'd just sound like a fanboy.

[@beanmr9904]

How did u get sponsored by a law firm lmaooo?? Seems so random for smash content but glad ur getting ur $$

[@thataintfalco7106]

@@beanmr9904GETTHATBAGGETTHATCASHGETTHATDOUGH

[@codenamec.a.t2480]

This is the absolute most unexpected sponsor for this channel honestly

[@LinkRammer]

Hi im Saul Goodman. Did you know you have rights? The constitution says you do.

[@HerMajestyVelvet]

MOM WAKE UP, MOCKROCK IS COMPLAINING ABOUT GANON AGAIN!

[@Pennsylvaniapride-]

What’s new

[@serspritztomb]

@@Pennsylvaniapride-it’s constructive criticism this time

[@Superachi]

This is the content I subscribed for

[@Pennsylvaniapride-]

@@serspritztomb damn you got me there

[@Irish_Enderman]

You must be waking up your mom A LOT

[@SonicTheCutehog]

Ganondorf and Sonic are perfect examples of how being last minute additions in one game can ruin how they are represented in future games because the devs refuse to change movesets too drastically unless you're Pit

[@Mahdi12]

It's a shame really, ganon being a clone and for 17 years they kept him on how he was. Sonic moves.... is just very boring and campy. Hopefully they change him in the future games with frontiers moveset.

[@SonicTheCutehog]

@@Mahdi12 They're not. They've had over 20 years to change Ganondorf and 15 to change Sonic, but they refused to.

[@callinater6133]

@@Mahdi12 they also need to nerf sonic’s speed. He should still be the fastest character obviously, but the gap between him and the second fastest character is comparable to the gap between the second fastest character and the slowest character. That’s a little excessive. Nerf it from 3.85 to around 3 or so in the next game. It’ll make him less campy.

[@christianshark6678]

This is actually an incredibly common misconception on Sonic. Most of it has nothing to do with Sonic being the last new character added but rather Sakurai basing it so closely on the older games where the only way Sonic damaged enemies was in ball form

[@SonicTheCutehog]

@@christianshark6678 It's also because animating him in a ball for most of his attacks saves time as well as pulling animations from other characters.

[@kathrynjones2383]

"Here he's portrayed as a bit grimmer, and more sinister.", he says as he pulls up the goofiest looking shot of Ganondorf in the entire video.

[@Casual_PKBeats]

The incorporation of Dead Man's Volley in so many different moves, and letting it include all projectiles, is such a brilliant idea. It's hard to say, but I feel like that would add a lot of fun variety to projectile counterplay, for both people present. An insanely clean presentation on a topic I hear talked about a lot, but never given as much depth as it deserves until now. Loved the vid, amazing work

[@k-leb4671]

I'm not a fan of adding Dead Man's Volley through a few random moves instead of as a dedicated special move. But, I do love the idea of him reflecting any projectile to turn that into a back-and-forth volley too. I never thought of that before, and it's not a mechanic that Smash has really taken advantage of.

[@Ren-zg7nu]

I do like that Ganondorf's Up special seems like a mix of Link and Zelda's Up Specials

[@MrMockRock]

I honestly didn't have that in mind at all haha, but I get it. There's actually not a single genuinely new thing in that move other than the final slash, but it's a bunch of familiar stuff recombined in a way that I'm actually a bit surprised we haven't seen before

[@Saben.C-Spoon]

Thats actually such a cool detail I didnt think about, its like hes trying to one up them

[@DeathDemon346]

​@@MrMockRockif it ain't broke dont fix it

[@vivelespatat2670]

​@@Saben.C-SpoonKeyword : Trying

[@gqboygboy6930]

I just hate how Ganon was done so dirty for four games now still to this day being "Bad Captain Falcon"

[@niteriemcfarlane5285]

same!!!!😭💔

[@jacobs5546]

Agree. He's my Favorite Villain and he was done so dirty.

[@h0m3st4r]

Not just "Bad Captain Falcon". In every game since Brawl, he's been wholly outclassed as a slow, heavy damage dealer, the very role he's supposed to be good at. First, by Snake and King DeDeDe; then, by Bowser and DK; and now, by Incineroar, Byleth, and especially Kazuya.

[@FU6713]

For me he is the better captain falcon. Ik it sounds crazy but I play a lot better with ganondorf than captain falcon. Offstage KOs and combos are just easier with ganondorf for me.

[@MelodyLumina]

@Leeloo_the_foxthis is EXACTLY what i've been telling ppl

[@user-jl7cz2pe6d]

I feel like we should either give his old moveset to Black Shadow or make another, more accurate Ganondorf and just have both coexist. Kinda like they did with the three separate Links or with Sheik & Zelda.

[@linkonedgell894]

Put his current moveset on toon Ganon, then give us this one as the real thing.

[@RTMP_]

⁠@@linkonedgell894Twilight Princess’s Ganondorf would fit more with less necessary changes, since he only uses a single sword rather than two.

[@Dzzy123]

@@linkonedgell894 Giving Toon Ganon the old moveset would be a bad idea. Toon Ganondorf could have a unique moveset. Giving the old moves to Black Shadow is a much better idea.

[@420jw]

I’d be cool to just let the Moveset Cease to be Entirely

[@Wanten-the-stormtrooper]

I'm down with most of these ideas, though I'd argue the more accurate Ganondorf should instead be blue pig Ganon to link (no pun intended) back to the classic games (since he was there first release-wise) and make the 2 stand out more from each other.

[@Dante...]

If they do ever give Ganondorf a full overhaul like this, they need to also add Black Shadow and give him the old Ganondorf moveset because a lot of fans including myself would miss that old moveset.

[@pottedplant7460]

Building off that, one idea I had was that since Incineroar likely won't make the next Smash game, maybe some moves could be taken from him as well. Black Shadow Ganondorf with some Revenge equivalent sounds FUN.

[@Dante...]

@@pottedplant7460 While that does sound fun, I don't think they'll cut Incineroar. The only Pokemon I could see them cutting is Pichu.

[@Helios2737]

​@@Dante...I mean, they cut Mewtwo, and almost did it twice, and Mewtwo is way more popular than incin, I wouldn't say any Pokémon except Pikachu and Jiggs are a lock

[@lemon5000-tj6nv]

​@@Helios2737charizard def wont get cut

[@Gander6309-KranchTheDestroyer]

After seeing the success of ultimate. If I were in Nintendo's shoes. THERE IS NO WAY ON EARTH IM CUTTING ANYONE EVER AGAIN! I AM ADDING MORE CHARACTERS AND REMOVING NONE!

[@firstwaddledee9182]

This was great! After the Link moveset I was a little afraid that you’d try to put too much into Gannondorf, but all you really did that was crazy was adding a dead man’s volley mechanic that acts as a very useful tool for his overall design, and acts an iconic reference! And everything else was just some solid moves that sold him as a cunning, sword swinging, powerful, sorcerer! Your moveset hit it right on the mark.

[@MrMockRock]

Appreciate it! Yeah, the Link mechanics were specifically meant to invoke some of the puzzle-solving aspect of the Zelda series, I think if Ganondorf comes across a dungeon puzzle he's just gonna blow it up lol

[@isaiaholaru5013]

​​@@MrMockRockYou forgot one thing though (Bad, maybe mid, joke incoming); For his F-Smash, he has to yell "DORIYAH!" In all seriousness, I LOVE this moveset. It's a bit more complex than he is now, but it's as complex as he should be. Also, Ganondorf's existing moveset should be slapped onto Black Shadow, as you said. Any modders would have a great time implementing this and you Link moveset

[@Ennrod-ly5st]

Do sonic next

[@Harrymation-productions]

Holy crap; this is the best ganondorf concept I’ve seen. I love the idea of reflecting attacks and throwing projectiles being normals; as if it’s just something normal for ganondorf.

[@SSM24_]

I really like this design, it feels a lot more cohesive than the Link one. I'm not always a fan of "grab bag" style movesets where it feels like every attack is made of shoehorned-in references, but this does a great job of avoiding that problem while still pulling from a huge range of his source material. Very cool stuff.

[@lam6570]

the ganon up tilt in your intro hit just a little different this time

[@Blackacre438]

This is so good!! Amazing work. I have a few notes/questions: I feel like Ganondorf’s TOTK costumes should use his full haired, secret stone, powered up form. Otherwise it looks like he’s holding back in a way that doesn’t hold for his other six outfits. With regard to his energy tennis, I think a better UI system would be that the first reflect that Ganondorf does puts it into that special state, it becomes unstable if the opponent hits it back, and on the third hit by Ganondorf, the projectile is removed from that state entirely, so it can no longer be hit back. And for the up smash and up airs that need to be reflected an even number of times for Ganondorf to have the last laugh, I’d make it two instead of four. It starts out in that energy tennis state, on first hit becomes unstable, and then on the second hit it exits that state and becomes a regular energy projectile. For the down smash, how much of that 60 second startup happens before you get the chance to charge it? In other words, how much “snake f smash” vibes does this give off? Finally, every DLC character comes with a stage. This wasn’t as big a deal for Link, but I want to point it out here because we have STILL never gotten a proper Villain’s Lair style stage in Smash. No Bowser’s castle, no Ganondorf’s castle. A stage that suits Ganondorf is almost as sorely needed as a proper Ganondorf himself, AND it opens us up to TOTK music in smash.

[@MrMockRock]

So just to clarify, for the Dead Man's Volley moves, when it splinters, it is removed from that state. I considered 2 instead of 4 for the latter, but that's not _nearly_ enough energy tennis for me, I wanted to strike a middle ground between every projectile stalling the game and still being able to feel like you're playing with the Zelda mechanic. No Snake fsmash vibes here, I'd need to do more research to give you the exact frame but you still need to time it perfectly. Stage design is a whole different can of worms, I agree a Castle or Tower stage would be awesome but that's a different video in my mind

[@buttery_gooch6]

@@MrMockRockfor ganon's down-smash, i feel a light windbox pulling other fighters into ganon if they're near him (think volcano kick windbox) could enhance it's use potential and also give other players the feeling of "oh shit, i need to run as fast as i can."

[@GlitchKnight113]

​@@buttery_gooch6100% agree

[@dysr]

Fun fact: there are villain lair stages, just hidden as part of transformations. Bowser’s castle is part of the Paper Mario stage, and Dream Land GB goes to Mt Dedede. Having a proper one would be nice though. Fountain of Dreams, Halberd, Reset Bomb Forest, and Shadow Moses Island only count if you really squint.

[@cbd075]

One MockRock issue with Ultimate handled in a PHENOMENAL video! Now time for the next MockRock vid, “The Pits’ Nairs NEED New Hitboxes”

[@legendarysoil1064]

It’s about time someone has done this, and if I had to pick a specific person it would definitely be mockrock. The mix of design knowledge and respect for the source material makes for an excellent video

[@flexyfalcon]

Ganondorf seriously needs a huge overhaul on his move set due to two reasons: His moves look like captain falcon’s fighting moves, and there’s a lot of source material that allows Nintendo to reference since Ganondorf has a lot of moves from legend of Zelda

[@kirbyx2573]

Being a last Minute Addition in melee really hurt Ganondorf. I wish he got a better Moveset. His Incarnation in TOTK would be such an AWESOME approach. This is gonna be a great watch!

[@DarkAura19]

I wouldn't even say that's the issue. The issue is the team absolutely refuses to make meaningful changes to him. Even if things were last minute, that doesn't excuse keeping so much the same two decades later. Things aren't "last minute" anymore. I understand the team wants to keep veterans the same for fear of alienating said characters player base, but that isn't an excuse when his entire player base would unanimously like them changed.

[@chordalharmony]

@@DarkAura19Except this ISN’T a unanimous decision. A lot of people REALLY enjoy Ganon as he is now. The Black Shadow approach is the only way to satisfy everyone, but at least it’s an option

[@niteriemcfarlane5285]

​@@chordalharmonyif black shadow does get old ganon/Ganondorf moveset no complaining 😭

[@ShyRanger]

@@DarkAura19 To kirbyx's point though, if Ganondorf hadn't been a last minute addition he wouldn't have been rushed in the first place. Also sorry but incorrect about things not being "last minute" anymore. Devs are still forced to crunch and make last minute decisions and calls due ot time.

[@competitively3315]

I’ve been looking forward too this so much as you do remake character videos like no other. Edit: watched the video. Fantastic editing and you did a great job conveying to the viewer what your intentions are for each moveslot. In terms of things that can be improved upon, I recommend giving forward air a landing hitbox just to sell the power of the move a bit more and making it so you can’t use neutral b if you’ve already grabbed the ledge previously (mostly to avoid stalling). Outside of that everything seems fine outside of nitpicks that aren’t really worth mentioning. I look forward to seeing Zelda, assuming you plan on doing it at some point.

[@MrMockRock]

Appreciate it! For forward air and forward smash, I actually did originally have shockwave hitboxes on them. I decided to remove them because a) nobody's mistaking those moves as weak to begin with haha, and b) it leaves room for moves that have shockwaves as a more intrinsic part of their identity to stand out more. As far as neutral special stalling goes, I'm not worried about it, Ultimate's one-time invincibility and regrab limit should prevent any serious issues. He can probably plank a little bit between Warlock's Defiance and uair, but eh, that's alright, a lot of characters can. For Zelda, we'll see. Completing the Triforce would be cool for sure, but I don't have a footage archive for some of her most important games and also suspect she'd be by far the least in-demand of the trio. Possibly though, if I can make it work at some point I will.

[@linkonedgell894]

​@MrMockRock I'm totally down for Zelda, but there's a lot of characters left that I think should be in front of her in line.

[@gubsy3730]

I LOVE the idea for Side Special. Flame Choke is such a sick move that it's really hard to match that hype (even with the Up Special somewhat carrying on its legacy), but the charging boar and fire bat silhouettes are so cool. Specials that are different moves depending on if you are on the ground or in the air are something I'd really like to see more of in Smash 6, and you pulled it off excellently.

[@pottedplant7460]

Hi Gubsy

[@jomaq9233]

Maybe the reason for why Ganondorf ended up with a bizarre cloned moveset instead of either planning him from the very start as a unique character in Melee or saving him for Brawl is that, at the time, Ganondorf was only in one game (Ocarina of Time), and in that game, pretty sure all he did was float around, throw a big ball projectile, and show some vague darkness effects, and most of the other possible source moves in the series were actually done by Ganon (without the “dorf”), and yet so many fans wanted him anyway, so he was put in last-minute Now as for why he didn’t at least get that projectile in later games is something I cannot even begin to answer, but at the time, I guess making him a clone somewhat made sense??? (but at the same time, why not also reference stuff from his Ganon form in older games as well)

[@TheDukeofDorks]

I cannot stress how happy I am that you are making more of these. Through your content you've shown you've got some fantastic insights into character designs and those insights truly shine when tackling different ways these characters could be depicted in future games. Loved Link's, loved this one, hope to see many more in the future!

[@onewingedakuma6835]

This should just be Ganondorf’s moveset going forward

[@Saben.C-Spoon]

While I personally am more on the side of keeping just a few of his normal smash moves and would have gone for a more warlock-esc feel with sparcer weapon appearances, I really liked this. I particularly LOVED that back throw that thing sounds so raw, and I love how you incorperated the fire bats. Up tilt was another stand out move, I love the crossing blades. The animations for them also did feel pretty in line with Ganon's body language which I think is an important aspect of representation that tons of fan movesets tend to ignore. I loved pretty much all of his normals but while I did find a couple of the specials to be a bit bland and I think Float could easily just be inputted the same way as Peach's to free up Neutral B, I very much enjoyed this as a whole. As an idea, if you continue doing these specifically based on if the character got in as DLC, you could start covering stages and music as well. I imagine itd be a lot of extra work but your editing and ideas are so high quality that I think it could really round out these videos. (Also the fact we still dont have a Bowsers Castle or Ganons Tower is downright depressing)

[@phazerxp339]

You actually put the words right in my mouth! Body language is important! I'm a moveset designer myself. Not only idle stances, taunts and all that are important, but the posing during certain attacks, and the specific gestures and movements. Some characters will be frantic while others will be more direct and controlled. If that's what you were thinking about too, then it's definitely right.

[@nicofire31]

TOTK Ganondorf provides the most moveset potential imo, He could have a down special where he switches weapons, from a club, spear, and katana, and the actions of his normals or aerials (maybe his down aerial) His neutral special can be the Demon King Bow, pretty much like Link's bow except it is multi-shot (at most 3 based on his boss fight in totk), but like Byleth's failnaught it can't be cancelled once fully charged His side b could be the lunge he does in totk, but what he does depends on the weapon he has Up B, i have no idea, but probably that spin he does with his katana in totk

[@ShinxBOOM247]

As someone who made a fan made interpretation of Ganondorf for Rivals of Aether that leaned towards more of a middle ground (retaining aspects of Smash Ganondorf I and my collaborater VVizard liked while also adding in tools that represented him in the rest of the series better), I am curious to see just how far Mockrock takes this design

[@MrMockRock]

I've seen that one! I get the approach and liked it for what it was, but I prefer to tackle these with a total scorched earth approach haha, very different philosophy

[@ShinxBOOM247]

​@MrMockRock after watching through the entire video, I really like the moveset you created! There are a lot of inspired ideas here that feel very fitting to the character, particularly the ways Dead Man's Volley was included in the moveset. Really enjoyed it.

[@waffleman8053]

I have yet to play it, but that's probably my favorite Ganondorf fan moveset I've seen.

[@simeonellinger2064]

"he plays an organ to his victory theme" Damn it I NEED this! Brilliant.

[@raptorclaw1505]

I find myself enjoying this rework of Ganondorf's moveset and agree with your points about heavies in Smash. That being said, I thought of some ideas for a new mechanic for a future Smash game that could possibly put heavies at less of a disadvantage: Overwhelm The mechanic is based primarily on both characters' weight stats, and it affects things like grabbing another character, grabbing the ledge, tripping, bury times, and armor. Basically, when a heavyweight character is fighting a lightweight character, depending on the weight difference, the heavy character may be able to avoid getting ledge trumped, maintain a grab for longer, be able to mash out of a grab more easily or even smack away a light enough character just for trying to grab them, have a chance of being able to cancel a trip entirely, mash out of bury easier, and armor through more powerful attacks. It's not really a solution to them being combo food, but it gives them more options to turn the tables on lightweights that would originally run rings around them.

[@OneSadBoi]

I love how you gave all the moves such cool names. A completely unnecessary addition in the grand scheme of things but it adds so much imagery to the moves power and shows how much effort you put into the small details

[@oliviatipton3898]

You've done Link, Ganondorf, now you GOTTA tackle my main Zelda

[@blackhoggaming]

10:04 THAT WOULD BE THE COOLEST VICTORY ANIMATION EVER

[@troykv96]

This looks awesome MockRock! The moveset is very cool, it plays very nicely with Ganondorf's traits, his power, his intimidation factor, his capability for burst movement despite being generally slow, and his ability to twist a bit the rules in order to win, I love the fact taht the Up Smash and Air can be used as projectiles, it's something that he can use to fight at longer range, but considering how unusual it's to use (and the fact that you have to commit to a slower move to use it) makes it a lot less spammable than a typical projectil, for Ganondorf is not an truly defensive campy option, it's essentially a flex to force people to play his evil tennis game. Also the float is always cool.

[@beamzzzhit7006]

So, first off, great video! I love most of your reasoning and references in his moveset. However, while I think it is a good character concept for a new character, I think a bit more could be used for the new DLC character concept. I have no complaints with your Link moveset, but your Ganondorf moveset was a bit underwhelming when it came to more complex gimmicks. So, if you don't mind, I'm just gonna list off some ideas I cooked up over these 4 weeks the video has been out. Side special - Just replace the flaming bat with the gloom dragon seen at 39:45. Just makes more sense to me. Up special - Rise of the Demon - Ganondorf pulls out his trident and starts spinning it above his head. He floats up slowly for a moment before disappearing and reappearing some distance above where he was when he vanished. It's basically a fancier teleport with (what I think is) a good reference. Down special - Phantom Ganondorf (the biggest one) - When the move is used, it spawns a phantom of Ganondorf where he is standing. The appearance depends on the alt used. This phantom will use the last move that was used by Ganondorf after spawning, in 1 second intervals. It does not matter whether the phantom is airbourne or not, meaning it can use grounded attacks in the air or aerials on the ground. These phantoms will not move (meaning they will float midair), but if the last move used was a movement option, it will function normally and after the phantom will teleport back to it's original position. There will be a cooldown of 10 seconds along with a limit of 2 phantoms. The phantoms will disappear in one attack and have weaker attacks. And y'know what? Screw it, they will also use the final smash when Ganondorf activates it. So... waddya think everyone?

[@zernek9199]

I'd actually just main this Ganondorf. This feels like everything I want in a Smash character.

[@gbx4858]

Great video overall! I did have a similar idea for his neutral special, but it combined the float, reflector, and dead man's volley together, though this was when I was picturing only one move being reworked rather than his entire kit. It would be cool if maybe Ganondorf still got a unique move or two in his float state, but I still think this was a great moveset!

[@darvaza5140]

honestly hoping these kinds of videos become a regular series, while i don't necessarily agree with the concepts others come up with sometimes, it's always fun to see what people come up with regardless

[@Saben.C-Spoon]

Agreed bigtime, Im usually more open minded with these so its rare I dont like at least something from them so theres always somethings I can take away from these

[@pascalpuschel]

I am a Ganondorf main, and I love his moveset, despite having so many weaknesses. However, I would love to see this well thought out moveset in the current state of the game. If there is another smash title (lol), this would be it! Make ganon at least a mid tier please ^^

[@niteriemcfarlane5285]

nah at least to B tier 😭

[@kevingriffith6011]

If they wanted an evil, heavyweight echo fighter for Captain Falcon, why not transplant Ganon's moveset onto F-Zero's own Black Shadow? It'd be a perfect fit, from where I'm standing.

[@blazefactor6849]

@@kevingriffith6011 Problem is, who actually cares that much about Black Shadow? There's a reason Capt. Falcon is the only F-Zero rep, the series is basically dead and wasn't even that popular when it was alive. Considering all of the well-known characters that haven't even made a smash game, there's just no room for him.

[@kevingriffith6011]

@@blazefactor6849 The same could be said about Plant, or a handful of the fire emblem characters, or Richter. There are a lot of "almost no-one cares" characters in smash already.

[@blazefactor6849]

@@kevingriffith6011 Those are still from franchises that actually exist in the modern era. The last mainline F-Zero game to be released came out almost two decades ago.

[@MorrowMoon_thenightwing]

That corrupted triforce would be such a cool idea for a final smash.

[@OtherMomo]

I'd like.to.see.a.version of 'Dorf with a moveset balanced around having Bowser's tough-guy armor. Maybe not as strong as turtle-dad's or his hyper during warlock punch, but weak attacks shouldn't even phase him during certain actions

[@SydneyIsSleepy]

i LOVE the way you describe the events of the final smash like a short story; you have a flair for descriptive writing

[@TheZexal]

These videos are a real double edged sword. The movesets you've come up with look amazing and like they'd be really fun to play, but sadly there'll never be that opportunity. Hoping you make one of these for Kirby one day ❤

[@ABAgamer_]

It feels like Christmas morning whenever I see MockRock on my home page. Minus the whole “unwrapping” part.

[@tolis19]

Im really conflicted with smash ganon.on one hand along with bowser he is Nintendos most iconic vilain(and one of the most iconic villain of gaming in general) so he absolutely deserves a canon accurate moveset but on the other hand he is my most favourite character to play and i dont think there is any way to make him more fun

[@landlighterfirestar5550]

I've heard many people (I think including MockRock) offer solutions to preserve the current Ganondorf moveset in Smash, by moving it to a different character, the one I remember being another character from F-ZERO (forgive me, I don't remember their name)

[@MegaPokefan97]

​@@landlighterfirestar5550Black Shadow or Blood Falcon

[@niteriemcfarlane5285]

​@@MegaPokefan97 correct have a 🍪

[@angeloh1704]

@@niteriemcfarlane5285can i have a 🍪 too

[@dyldragon1]

Absolutely can't believe someone would make a Ganon moveset without flame choke like that's 80% of what makes him fun

[@lukevanamerongen5622]

This would be so cool, I love the "mind games" aspect and how you gave him two reflectors/teleports/projectiles instead of just one of each. I'm especially a fan of the teleports, I love using Dimensional Cape to mess with people : )

[@demi-femme4821]

The fact that they made a Ganon moveset without ANY way to play Dead Man's Volley is the biggest indictment of Ganon in Smash.

[@SenderBender63]

Great vid as always but a few ideas and alterations I’d make Down special: Phantom ganon, ganondorf summons a phantom behind him holding either a sword, spear or club/ great sword which can be changed by angling the move, the sword would be the middle ground good coverage and moderate kill power, spear would have most range and club/great sword would obviously hit like a tank. I think it could parallel quite nicely to Zelda as I’d rework hers to be less oppressive but spawn in front of Zelda to provide additional protection Neutral special: dead man’s volley, low level charge would function like the one in oot which can be reflected, mid level would be a small flurry of lighting/mallace balls that have unimpressive kill power but great damage, and a final charge where he punches the ground in a shockwave also found in oot functioning sort of a big dumb powerful kill move but would still be useful and attached to a move slot with some great strengths Up smash: basically his current one just with his club or respective sword Down smash: An attack where ganondorf where he drives his respective club or great sword into the ground similar to ike’s eruption but with coverage behind him, taking inspiration from one of his attacks in totk Side b: probably keep it flame choke just to keep some of the old ganon as it’s one of his only moves that feels fitting in his current incarnation and is still a cool, sinister, damaging and evil move, just remove the free fall thing Those are just some of my ideas but hopefully didn’t try to undermine any of your suggestions, great ideas all in all

[@jarochar8260]

I really love that Warlock's Defiance is his neutral special, because it means that's what kirby gets from his copy. I love imagining Kirby levitating in the air, with his arms crossed, acting all tough.

[@burbusburbus8782]

these types of videos made me do something similar of my own volition. i made a document a while ago, to sort give a take of sonic being updated as a frontiers moveset. obviously i didn't make it public, just shared it with a few friends, and i didn't make nearly the same details you did. however i am still relatively proud of myself, and i have to thank you for the inspiration (still have the document if anyone wants to see)

[@intel_coar6844]

I remember watching a Duke of Dorks video a while ago where he suggested that Ganon have a 2 hit jab; A trident swing followed by a stab. If it didn’t connect that would be all, but if the stab connected it would skewer the foe and act as a command grab, at which point Ganon would raise the trident up at a 30 degree angle and punch the foe so hard they flew off the trident. That idea alone was so cool and perfect for the character that I’d dissatisfied if it never happens. However, this idea of a backhand for the jab/Nair is also so good that now I’d love a backhand into stab combo as his jab with the same reflector effect on the first hit, which also makes it more difficult for Ganon to spam a reflector

[@lordreavanplays43]

23:10 wait a minute.... why's Ganondorf doing the spirit bomb?? Side note: I'm watching this video and the Link video back to back and I'm honestly super impressed that you put all of this together yourself, you're truly inspirational MockRock!! (Especially for me as I'm hoping to design games myself, hence why I love watching these video!!)

[@marche800]

While watching the video I was thinking of ways to implement gloom's passive effect, because I've always found it's ability to temporarily remove hearts to be a really cool idea. That being said it doesn’t really work with smash percentages. So the idea i though of was having it temporarily lock the opponents special moves instead. Each time ganon lands certain moves it locks a special move for 10 seconds in order of nuetral special, down special, side special, and finally, most damning of all up special. It would give a really uniquely oppressive bonus effect to Ganondorf's moves while making up for some of his short comings. You don't need to worry about a zone if their zoning moves are turned off and you don’t need amazing gimps if they can't use their recovery. It would also give added element of risk to his deadman's volley as if he loses the volley, his specials get locked instead. Perhaps it'd be a bit too much with the moveset sketched up here but it would be really cool if nothing else. This kind of sealing off moves could also be a really cool gimmick on a rework of Zelda.

[@ShyRanger]

Bit of a stretch to make that Smash's version of Gloom; HOWEVER, that does remind me a lot of a different Zelda mechanic, JInxing. The thing in Classic Zelda, Majora's Mask, and Wind Waker, where Link gets in bubble poison and he can't use his sword, or in WInd Waker any moves.

[@nemesisreborn]

Not to be dramatic but I just wanted to drop by and say your intro is like my favourite thing on this planet I literally watch it on repeat sometimes. I'm not really much of a smash bros person but I come here to just watch your intro on repeat. It gives me whatever you would call the exact opposite feeling to visceral discomfort. Have a good day

[@ReikuYin]

That final smash..... Chilling.

[@irakyl]

Great video! You do a wonderful job explaining and visualizing the moves, and both the game footage shown and the sketches help with this very nicely. I don't know how familiar you are with the kirby series but I was wondering if you would be interested in an overhaul of his moveset as well. I think that he could be given the mega man treatment where every move can reference a copy ability from his games, but let inhale stay the same.

[@quantumsaus]

i know why you didn’t do it, but i think it woulda been REALLY funny if you replaced the ganondorf warlock punch in the intro with the new neutral special

[@justinnzamora5366]

This has to be one of if, not the most anticipated video your followers (including me) wanted to see. I recall that Twitter post you made on September 14 where Ganondorf was one of four characters you want to see overhauled in the next Smash Bros installment. Do you plan on doing the other three for this series on your channel? Keep up the phenomenal work, good sir!

[@charcoal6017]

That mention of that LttP/Pig Ganon moveset does sound super interesting lmao

[@samueljo7910]

This and your Link reworks were some of the best Smash moveset reworks I've ever seen. I really appreciate the names as well. You'd better do Zelda next and complete the Triforce.

[@Sickmmaner]

41:48 Ayo, WHAT is that tournament footage of Toon Link and Ganon? That match looks sick!

[@kaderadmall9633]

So glad this became a series, can't wait for more

[@user-rc3sw7xk1w]

2 more hours, and PJiggles will miraculously post a tangentially related video about ganondorfs move set… you just wait

[@agent_beta420]

As soon as you mentioned phantom ganon I imagined him doing a projection move where you have to attack the real ganon or get punished and you can press B to swap places with the fake

[@werewolf4925]

Absolutely love your rework, from the visuals to the moveset and mechanics. Sounds like he'd be even more violent and vicious than Ridley, and I love that.

[@falconfyre9286]

This entire video can be summed up by " so THAT'S why MockRock's favourite archetype is heavyweight projectile swordfighter."

[@Erokingu]

gotta be honest, weird to still have Volcano Kick in your intro for that particular episode 😂

[@teb07.]

now all i waant to seee is Kirby floating like Ganondorf's new Neutral B

[@kalosianporygon]

I'm really curious on how a Ganon moveset would look like, and what similitudes with Ganondorf would he have (if any).

[@lordbahamut666]

this has to be one of the best ganondorf moveset videos i've seen. I theorycrafted a moveset myself but this was before totk was even announced and the one thing both this moveset and my moveset have in common is ganondorf being a multi weapons expert. But this moveset is really solid, minus making neutral b his float, i can never see his float being tied to a special move.

[@kicksyo2171]

This is so awesome. I was hoping you do a video like this.

[@theclaudfather6436]

I was brainstorming a move set for Ganondorf based on his TotK appearance and I thought a Gloom mechanic would be pretty cool for him. It would be similar to Inkling’s paint where you can cover the opponent in Gloom and what it does is act like a debuff. Basically the more you get covered the weaker and less knock back your attacks would do. And it would also do a unique affect on shields making them more brittle and easier to break. He would have a few moves that would generate Gloom but he would also have one move that was solely meant to apply it. This would make him scary to play against because he would still have his signature hard hitting attacks but coupled with a weakening mechanic so he could just “tough guy” through attack, even smashes, to make getting to his opponent easier.

[@Mahdi12]

Thank you, I'm shocked that no one notices that throughout the games franchise not a single bit of references from ganons previous games had a move. He had many potential.

[@ltrigga219]

Ooof, I almost got chills with the final smash. Great idea. While I hate how many unrecoverables he still has, the float and the energy tennis mechanics are all very solid. Good stuff!

[@BeanoNintendo]

Nice vid! I like how you subverted expectations by NOT making Dead Man's Volley his neutral special. The one glaring omission I think is Ganondorf's Flurry Rush from Tears of The Kingdom. Giving him a witch time (or WARLOCK time, eh?!?) mechanic is pretty fitting for a cunning magical trickster like him and I don't think it'd be quite as broken on him as it is on Bayonetta or Mythra given how he's not a speedy combo-based character like they are. Now that you've done Link and Ganondorf, I'd love to see you complete the Triforce with Zelda. I feel like her moveset might honestly be the most ill-fitting and outdated out of the 3 of them being based pretty much entirely on OOT save for her down special and Final Smash and yet I've not really seen anyone attempt a rework of her. I think that BoTW and ToTK in particular offer a ton of potential for her using the Sheikah Slate in tandem with her light powers but you've been doing a good job of tying in newer powers with older ones so I would want to see you do that again with Zelda, making her feel more like a composite character.

[@Aperson-62]

Have you seen the Ganondorf on Rivals of Aether Workshop by Artist of Seer and VVizard? They basically took some elements of Smash Ganondorf but made it a lot more inspired and gave him a trident and allowed him to hover.

[@insomniacnerd5592]

YESSSSS! I HAVE BEEN WANTING A VIDEO LIKE THIS FROM YOU FOR YEARS, MANNNNN!

[@slateoffate9812]

Before starting the vid, I'd like to throw some ideas of my own; Design: I'd like it to be a different Ganondorf than from any single game. Using TotK Ganondorf as a base, I'd put him in the Evil Spirit Armor and Sand Pants/Boots, replacing the Secret Stone headpiece with the prototype all the way back in the BotW2 Announcement Trailer. Moveset: His weapon of choice would be the Gerudo Spear. His recovery would combine both Captain Falcon's recovery AND Deadman's Volley. Rather than grabbing an enemy, he'd throw that ball of energy, which can be hit or countered back at him. I'd still give him some punch attacks though, like when he reshaped the boss arena in OoT.

[@biggubbins.]

I thought that instead of the gloom club for forward air it would fit a back air slot a tad better since back airs are usually the more devastating of the two. I thought the animation could be a vertical swing similar to sephiroth but slower with slightly shorter range but hugely high kill power killing at the ledge just as well as k.rools sweet spot back air. And as a replant for forward air I would use a cross shaped slash with both his swords with high range decent kill power killing at about 90 at ledge and a little gloom particle effect just to and to the feel of both.

[@lilyofficer7300]

I love being able to imagine a timeline where accidentally inputting an up-tilt doesn't get you killed

[@tomrees82]

40:26 This is exactly what I think they should do & was about to comment it when this part of the video played.

[@TheAntiburglar]

Patiently have I waited for THE GREAT RECKONING OF GANONDORF'S MOVESET! LET THE JUDGEMENTS COME!

[@shiky_mehen6870]

I think having a similar property as Zelda's final smash, pass a certain %, Ganondorf's final smash should straight up kill. (Unless you had in mind a crazy launch that already kills early)

[@humblemememumbles]

This is pretty good! I would love to see something for the Metroid fellas as well. I think Samus could really of used some serious Re-tuning.

[@MikeDaddyMCS]

The only gripes that I have is that Neutral Special should have just been activated like Peach float )I do like the slow startup with it though), Up Throw should have had him teleport into the sky to slam back down from as high as possible like the other grabs, and his Up Special also should have had him killing a phantom on the way down (Honestly I would have loved to see more fake out moves where he kills a phantom to trick people) This moveset is amazing and the most original one I’ve seen yet

[@SharurFoF]

I actually think the next Smash game *should* start the roster from scratch anyway. There's nowhere to really go from Ultimate that's both more of the same and interesting/worth the trouble. A clean break with minimal attachments to previous entries and a smaller, more focused roster built from the ground up (both in terms of character selection and move set) is what I think the series needs in order to make a new installment worth getting into. I say minimal attachments, because I think there are a handful of iconic things that ought to carry over, but I could be persuaded to go about as minimal as "literally just Falcon Knee" there.

[@smilingman4299]

Okay, so I, too, had fun reimaginating a new moveset for Ganondorf : here we go. Jab can stay the same. F-tilt makes him throw his trident like Ganon does in a Link to the Past : It's a slow projectile with about the same range and armor as K.Rool 's crown, but it drags the ennemy towards you, so it's an anti-zoning tool. Hitstun grows with damage, so it's a combo starter into grab, jab, n-air or d-tilt at low percent, and then a kill confirm with other moves at high percent. Up-tilt make him slam his trident into the ground, pining other players like Corrin's side-b, and then throw a bolt of lightning on it, like with Hyrule Warriors. Kinda slow, very strong (send at a semi-spike angle, kills at about 85% with the second hit), great hitbox so works as an anti-air. Bolt of lightning is safe on shield but slamming the trident is not, so you can interrupt it. Down-tilt he does like SSBC (Smash Bros Crusade.) Can somewhat combo and kill at about 130%. Smash attacks are fine. Dash attack is fine mechanically, but I'd like a visual where a shadow of Ganon's body appear around his. Grab is now his old side-B, except he isn't the one who does it : it's Phantom Ganon. If Phantom Ganon grabs someone, they are teleported into Ganondorf's loving arms. Up-throw looks the same, but it can kill now (around 140%). D-throw is the same as before. F-throw is the second part of his old side-B, still techable and all. If not teched, comboes into up-tilt. B-throw is a bit special : it reuses the animation of his old F-throw, except that a dark portal (like the one he comes out of in his entrance) opens in front of him and another in his back. The hit sends the ennemy into the portal in front of him. It also has around K.Rool's back throw level of kill power. Can also be used as a z-air, works like the normal aerial version of the old side-b. This time it's Ganondorf who teleports on the target, not the opposite. Can also grab ledge and Ganoncide. Phantom Ganon isn't disjointed : you can hit him, and the damage and knockback will be reflected to Ganondorf. However, it isn't instantaneous, only when the hitstun is over, so Ganondorf has the time to shield, but he'll probably still be punished since he'll still suffer the shieldstun while the opponent can move freely. D-air is fine. F-air and B-air are about the same, except that a shadow of Ganon's arm appear around his own (like with Hyrule Warrior), giving him around as much range as Incineroar's f-air, but like Phantom Ganon, it isn't disjointed. N-air is fine, but it's Phantom Ganon who does it, while Ganondorf does a little burst of energy who sends you into the second hit of Phantom Ganon's n-air. This way it actually works as an out-of-shield. Up-air has him manifest Ganon's horn and head around his, as he does an headbutt upwards. Same kill power and range as the old up-air but without a sourspot. It still sends horizontally instead of vertically, and is actually disjointed at the horns. Neutral-b is a big ball of chargeable energy, but it's like with Sephiroth where you can't hold the charge. Side-b is his old down-B, but it's Phantom Ganon who does it, acting as a projectile. Down-b is a float, lasting for around 5s, during which you can attack and move slowly. Pressing Down-B again makes him do his slamming attack from OOT. It's mechanically identical to Bowser's down-B. For up-b, I felt like doing something more fun and interesting than just a teleport. So it's the same as now, except that holding B while doing it makes Ganondorf teleport a Bokoblin on which he latches , giving him more horizontal distance and allowing him to act again like he would with hitting another player. He can only summon a Bokoblin once per going offstage (getting hit doesn't refresh it), but he has armor while discharging electricity. Also, having someone else hit you or the Bokoblin doesn't get either out of the move.

[@brospeed394]

33:15 Flame choke is good. it gets featured in every dimension.

[@ChargedBonsai98]

It'd be interesting to see how Dead Man's Volley would work with Ness and Lucas's PSI magnet. Could you absorb the attack version as soon as its active or do you have to wait for it to be thrown? Can you absorb a reflected move the first time the attack is reflected or do you have to wait for the last reflect? Does the projectile have to be energy based already or does it gain an energy property when it's reflected?

[@kathrynjones2383]

My only concern is that ganondorf would lose out on dead man's volley matchups too much.

[@expoogaloo]

Fantastic video, only thing I would change would be the name of the final smash. Instead of tri force corruption maybe something like “Behold, The Demon King!” Or “Calamity of the Demon King”, something more foreboding that matches his King/Leader status considering he sends his army after the caught opponent, as well as something that uses his title proper

[@lx5323]

There is one thing that is kinda off for me in this move set, and it relates to the Up Smash, Up Air, and Neutral Special. I feel dead man’s volley should be mapped to the neutral special, not as a weird up smash/air. The Uair version specifically doesn’t seem to have much use, as it just stalls Ganondorf in the air for longer, making it easier to hit him with his awful movement. Giving Ganondorf more traditional and powerful Up smash/air and having Dead man’s volley be his neutral special makes more sense to me, as you can then use it whenever. As for his current Neutral special you have him, the float can just be an additional movement option like Peach or Daisy’s float, though maybe a bit different

[@Poxysocks]

Loved the link redesign video and your ideas, im excited for this one

[@Slug_ssbm]

Honestly I think a series (or even a video) where you take every single character and basically ask “what if they where a Fighters Past 2 character” would be neat. Like maybe some characters would only need minor tweaks while others need complete overhauls.

[@master_of_krynn]

Bro woke up and chose to craft such a detailed design that I, as a Ganondorf lover, would choose over mine. Seriously the detail is amazing. My favorite thing is the projectiles, I mean they were fun enough to carry the OOC fight (and other zelda fights too), plus with the mixup potential you added.. and the Real Ganon is fun enough, imagine how popular this would be at casual level. Plus it seems.... balanced? Wonky for sure, but like Incineroar- balanced enough for professional level, abit strong if anything. Just make sure he can't combo into the SUB 40 KILL and you're good :D Lmao I'll keep my comment short but this video is actually genius.

[@MineNAdventurer]

Tbh Warlock punch could still exist but with a completely different look since a Punch infused with extreme amounts of magic is very fitting for the holder of the Triforce of Power. It could be something more like a 3 charging type punch with the first being a quick sucker punch that also stuns the opponent breifly if sweat spotted, 2nd stage being a slight charge being a more powerful punch where he charges power and gains armour and the third being a long shield break punisher

[@kwazii363]

really do wish ganondorf was a later entry to the series so they could actually give him a non derivative moveset

[@wombatpandaa9774]

I absolutely love this moveset. I feel like it perfectly encapsulates how it would feel to be Ganondorf on the battlefield. I particularly love how all of his special moves are burst movement options - Ganondorf in the Zelda games is a formidable opponent because he takes calculated risks to surge towards or away from opponents, allowing him to effectively skip neutral if done precisely. He's a strategist, and this moveset seems to reflect that very well.

[@djdjinn6340]

The most important video I need to see in every Smashtuber's playlist. But doubly so for MockRock's insightful take on platform fighter balance and knowing he's actually played some Zelda games. Thanks for putting in all the effort to make this!

[@kidincredgamez5819]

If Crown Breaker could have a landing hitbox that's a weak flincher / sweet spot burry I think it'd be thematically on point as well as giving him a potential (though risky) combo setup option. He's got weak combo game anyways, so a high risk high reward combo tool would be fitting. Also something about being buried by someone's landing forward air just screams that person's powerful.

[@ericb5328]

the back throw idea was the most metal thing ive ever seen

[@thescarfguy]

I already know I will love this video (it's a mockrock video, I like literally every single one) and I am really excited!

[@thescarfguy]

Update, the more you talk, the more excited I am, this is amazing