Modded Skyrim low FPS? Check draw calls! Performance Test on Modlists: Lorerim, Apostasy, Eldergleam

[@themanhimself436]

Reluctant hero decides to rise above his duty of testing to save Skyrim from bandits and hooligans

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

i didn't think anyone would watch that part lmao

[@BearForceOneNCR]

Good video we need more like this explaining some modding issues. Some issues with mods are the high poly mods they can tank your fps real quick and mods like lux that add lots of shadows to interiors that also makes drawcalls go up real fast so just have to find the right balance between looks and performance.

[@wFTHw]

Good vid haven't seen anyone else yet doing this for skyrim heavy modlists, draw calls really affect cpus even the creator of lorerim said it

[@6MyUsername9]

Yet doesn't modify the list.

[@gruwen]

@@6MyUsername9 Only so much can be done, at some point you have to accept that better hardware is a requirement for heavy modded skyrim.

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

i think the modlist author, biggie, likes to use lossless scaling software to improve fps, at least i've seen him talk about it lots

[@gamergaminggamesss]

This is why i loved 3rd person gameplay for a Reason.

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

i think i know what you mean, but maybe my mind is going to the wrong place? lol

[@Vicrandy]

Jk's add close to 16k drawcalls in interiors. Lux adds a bit with high poly project and static mesh (smim)

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

JK mods are amazing, gonna be hard to let go to get back some more FPS. time for some sacrifice lol

[@Ezhn0f]

you guys should buy the tool Lossless scaling, gives me the smoothest experience despite playing the game heavily modded.

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

I love lossless scaling, but having some trouble with ghosting. Pretty sure it's my setup somehow, so i need to research more. Insane fps increase though!

[@GrappeKoolaid]

@@ModdingZone-r3z Maybe ur monitor? I'm getting 40-60 fps in white run and use 2x or even 3x loseless scaling frame gen with great results! I use PD for dlss

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

@@GrappeKoolaid It's interesting because some people get no ghosting, while some do. Maybe your PD DLSS is doing something good too

[@celticspike2522]

I tried lossless scaling with lorerim but it actually made FPS worse. Can you share what settings you used

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

@@celticspike2522 i'm actually having trouble with Lossless scaling currently. there's ghosting around my character and edges of screen

[@crimsondemon.]

Lorerim has a lot of scripts as well with its huge combat improvement, QOL in general which stresses the CPU a lot. Eldergleam is simply a graphics overhaul without having any thing else hence the low stress on CPU and more on GPU

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

yep! Lorerim is perfect for a powerful PC, and Eldergleam is incredible for mid range PC

[@mbraun777]

Yep, great point. Too many script heavy mods will bring your Skyrim to a screeching halt. Scripts that run constantly can become a great burden for the engine to carry around.

[@El_Deen]

you can also enable ENB on performance Lorerim

[@alvarg]

there is a lot of information that is a bit off in this video, a cpu bottleneck doesn't mean the gpu is way more powerful than the gpu it just means the game is using more cpu than gpu. In modern games with a lot lighting, shadows, reflections or even ray tracing the gpu quickly becomes the bottleneck. Another factor is memory, you were hitting the vram cap of your gpu in some scenes which will tank frame rate, even if it says 11.5 or 11.2 there is a good chance its actually using the entire amount of vram the gpu / gpu driver is using compression to prevent the whole vram from being used as maxing out the vram on your gpu would liking cause the application to crash or freeze as no new information can be written to it. skyrim tends to get cpu limited quickly with a lot of mods especially ones that add content, like whole buildings, extra trees, things with high poly count, as skyrim uses the 1 cpu thread for 90% of its rendering workload, it is essentially a limitation of skyrims engine in itself while a cpu with faster single threaded performance helps, dx11 has a lot of overhead so diminishing returns kicks in. other than that this is still a good video and you are right high draw calls will cause problems especially in dx 11 titles

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

hey, thanks for pointing this out. Maybe if I had deleted the word "powerful", and said instead "if the CPU usage is high while GPU usage is low, it's a CPU bottleneck, and the game is CPU dependent" it would be slightly better? As for VRAM, you are right, my VRAM was hit hard. I do recall a modlist i used maxing out my VRAM but fps was still 65+. Then again, that was probably due to lower draw calls, and some other variable Imagine if Skyrim supported Dx12, it would be much better with higher draw calls! Just curious, are you a game programmer?

[@alvarg]

@ModdingZone-r3z dx12 wouldn't help skyrim all that much, potentially less single threaded sure but would require the devs to actually optimise it, which would then break other things. You would also lose enb as the from what I've read, the developer said he won't or can't get it to work on dx12. I commented about vram when I noticed you were hitting 18 fps, as it appears you were both cpu bottlenecked and vram bottlenecked. You could definitely still squeeze out more performance out of your own setup, remove certain mods that add a ton of geometry, and remove any textures over 2k. Using lossless scaling would help, but I'd only use x2, and you will want to set an fps cap as frame generation works best at a stable frame rate. Ghosting is either too low of frames for frame gen to approximate or unstable frames. Ideally, you would want a minimum of about 45 fps, so limit the game to 45 fps and allow scaling to double it to 90. You can use lower, but lower frames means more ghosting/artifacts.

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

@@alvarg Thank you so much for the info! I've been having so much trouble adjusting and tinkering, especially with Lossless scaling too. Is there a comprehensive guide to learn more about bottlenecks, and FPS, and anything related to gaming performance that you recommend? I've been playing games for years, yet I feel like I never know enough! more tech, more knowledge, it's endless, in a good way

[@itsjustmatt966]

Excellent video! I seem to have the opposite of your problem, i need a new gpu basically ahaha. But for real though, sometimes draw calls cause me massive drops in performance, so i mitigated it with lossless scaling. But even that is not enough sometimes, so i guess we have to compromise something.

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

what's your spec? I'm trying lossless scaling, are you getting ghosting with it? when my character moves around fast, she leaves traces of her body on the screen LOL

[@itsjustmatt966]

@@ModdingZone-r3z currently running a rx 6600 with a ryzen 9 5900x; for LG i use the LS1 upscaler and 2x Frame generation, and tbh i almost always get 80 to 90 fps outside which is great. Had to run with the 2x variant just cause the other ones where too trippy to play with, it had some bad artifacting. And yes, even with the 2x fg i still get strange ghosting especially on the border of the screen, but i much rather play like this than getting 40 fps, but that's just my preference

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

@@itsjustmatt966 ah, so i thought i was the few people getting ghosting. got those shimmering ghosting on screen edges too. wonder if there's a fix for that

[@unclegoose3864]

If skyrim wasn't locked to one cpu core modding would be a lot better imo

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

I might be wrong, but seems like skyrim uses more than 1 core. On one of my overlay, I saw all 8 cores being used, but Core 2 was SLAMMED hard, up to 86% use a few times

[@dovahkiin-t1o]

I'm using the Skyrim Modding Essentials wabbajack list. It's helped me in constructing my own mod list I plan on releasing. I'm new to modding so this particular list helped me to jump right in.

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

Lorerim is amazing, so much hard work put into it. How's your overall feeling on putting your own modlist together, countless challenges come up, I bet?

[@Socianxious]

can't wait for next gen stuff to come out, 9800x3d & rtx 5080 to play a 13 yr old game

[@ashiok]

It just works!

[@Vicrandy]

Nature of wild lands adds too many trees, above skyrim's engine. It will obviously affect drawcalls. If you try other tree mods that add less you won't have that problem.

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

any tree mods you recommend? I need to look more into Happy Little Trees. Fabled forest is beautiful, but trees are so big it hides all the landscape

[@Vicrandy]

@@ModdingZone-r3z there is a patch for nature of wild lands to change it to only vanilla replacer, no added trees but not sure it works for the new update. You could try blubbos it doesn't add too much. Search blubbos pine trees. Fable forest is good too but blocks your view.

[@ДаниилБеркута]

i have already updated nature of the wild lands. the latest version of the mod is much more optimized, i got a big performance boost. there are much fewer drawcalls in the latest version

[@Vicrandy]

Hmm

[@Vicrandy]

I will give it a try once more

[@ugotpranked698]

hey man thanks for the video, can you tell me which trees are those at 5:43

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

lorerim comes with Happy Little Trees

[@rkelypnonu9423]

Look into VRAMR Performance setting. Insane gains for me on 2080ti playing Lorerim.

[@OnBrandRP]

Just lock the fps to 60, turn on gpu driver vsync, use sse display tweaks for quicker load screens and use LosslessScaling for frame generation. Boom.

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

Lossless scaling still giving me ghosting, how about you?

[@yourbluewaffle]

It's not simply a CPU issue but also an engine one. The engine simply struggles past 10k draw calls. You can try using vulkan rendering mod but idk if it is compatible with your enb of choice.

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

I didn't even know about vulkan rendering, saw some Reddit post, thanks to you. going on my todo list, you rock, thanks!

[@Jinofcoolnes]

I would love if you could retry this with the perfect dark DLSS mod or/and Lossless scaling with FSR + it's version of frame gen. Maybe the new upscalers can give older and even newer cards a easier time with these heavy modlist.

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

not sure i'd do puredark after the controversy, but I have lossless scaling. crazy good fps, but More test needed, if only i could eliminate the ghosting

[@Jinofcoolnes]

@@ModdingZone-r3z controversy is unfortunate, granted Dlss much better than FSR, might be a solution to some of ghosting(unless the frame gen stuff is the main cause) if you can get the 3.7.2 dll with it.

[@SkyrimModdedGameplaybyCastle]

@Jinofcoolnes what was the controversy? I'm currently using his DLSS test version 8 that works with ENB. The newer versions don't work for me and other older versions don't work with enb. In my experience the performance is great especially in 4k upscale from 1440p. Mostly get 60 fps except for demanding outdoor areas like in Windhelm docks or the main area north of Solitude.

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

@@SkyrimModdedGameplaybyCastle the controversy is the Puredark malware threats. There was a post on Reddit people getting fired up about it

[@SkyrimModdedGameplaybyCastle]

@@ModdingZone-r3z I did some digging and read that his DLSS mods being behind a paywall, which typically rubs a lot of the modding community in general as it has always had a culture of mods being free. And then he threatened to DRM his mods to avoid it from being pirated. I ended up paying his Patreon fee a while ago to get his test build DLSS that works with ENB. I guess I can see how it is a controversy. I don't think the threats were received well, but he certainly is entitled to his own policy concerning his paid mods. If another mod author can create a similar mod that can make Skyrim do DLSS and work with ENB and share it for free on Nexus then it would also compete with Puredark's original mod. But seeing he is the only one creating this awesome mod his policy for a paywall should be respected as well. On the other hand, Puredark's threats to enforce his paywall only agitates the issue and he is better off just shaming pirate users for a moral win. My two cents.

[@Max-fu3hp]

I'm currently experiencing a weird performance issue I havent run into before, but just in some areas. I have got super solid FPS around 50-60 on average, but when i pan my camera into certain directions I get a lag while doing so. When I stop panning the game immediately runs smooth again. My setups bottleneck is definetly my GPU (gtx 4060ti), and I'm trying to find how i can get this sorted, what mods to throw out, but I haven't found the solution yet... If anyone had experience with this before I'd be super glad to hear what's causing this. cheers, nice video btw!

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

thank you! Look to see if you have JK mods, what modlist you using? CPU matters a ton too. you have a 4060ti, but imagine even if you have a RTX 4090, if CPU can't keep up due to being overwhelmed with draw calls, there's a HUGE performance hit.

[@DangerousGazes]

What program is it you use that allows you to see the performance of your gpu/cpu? I wanna test this for myself. Having a ton of studders on my load order and I wanna know if its a vram problem or not

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

msi afterburner, but you need to setup from inside Riva Tuner

[@Socianxious]

forgot to ask, what do u use to track fps and resolution? i use msi afterburner and it doesn't look like that

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

it's MSI afterburner with RivaTuner. There's a blue setup button, then "plugins" tab, then click overlayeditor.dll. There are built in templates in there! good luck, let me know if ya have questions

[@whome6496]

whats your opinion when modern modlist or most wabbajack list (not all) , where system requirment are above 200 gb plus and modern gpu from mid to above are required? does it still worth it?, sadly i cant afford it....

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

hey! i totally understand about finances, i used to be in that exact spot. You don't need to use giant modpacks, Skyrim can look insanely beautiful with just a handle of mods, I'm doing testing on some of that. I want to show that skyrim modding can be done with just a small handful of mods. For now, you can use modlist that have "performance mode", which can net you more fps. What's your system spec?

[@whome6496]

​@@ModdingZone-r3z you will laugh at my spec lol currently my fastest specs is i7 4790 2.8 ghz to 4 ghz (non k ) rx570 4gb ddr3 16 gb 1600 mhz (not sure about the speed) 256 os, 2tb hdd my other device (since its a laptop it doesnt have the costant boost like pc) i7 7700hq 2.8 - 3.8 ghz 1050 non ti 4gb 20gb ddr4 2400 mhz 256 os 512 hdd both of my device i underclock/undervolt till i lock the boost so its just reach 2.8 ghz to both of them for reason like heat to reability issue (maybe the pc can take more beating not the laptop tho) both of these device i used it for my uni and casual play of course.

[@whome6496]

i did use the framgen app but only the 2x not the 4x ,cpu doesnt have much have head room to get 4x time speed

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

@@whome6496 I will never laugh at another person's spec, used to have a AMD 5770 not too long ago, that card is OLD. Maybe in this case, better to slowly build your own modlist. start with Skyrim Modding Essentials, SME, by Phoenix, to also have a base to build your own! Just remember, others have spec way lower. Comparison is the thief of happiness.

[@gottaslay8827]

8:45 lorerim also gets stuck for me every now and then in the same way as yours does in the video, havent managed to figure out why

[@nerrac2006]

Have you installed it in on an HDD? That might explain a bit.

[@nerrac2006]

Have you installed it in on an HDD? That might explain a bit.

[@gottaslay8827]

@@nerrac2006 on an NVMe SSD

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

I'm also on NVME ssd, just like @gottaslay8827

[@SkyrimModdedGameplaybyCastle]

Are you using FPS stabilizer mod? I believe it helps reduce "draw calls" by reducing the .ini settings for terrain manager dynamically based on FPS using SKSE. Also, any insight on how the GPU utilizes VRAM? I have an RTX 3090 which I believe has 24 GB of VRAM, but my Afterburner app usually measures 10-14 GB of VRAM use. I already increased my enblocal settings to a high VideoMemorySizeMb setting. My PC spec is a 5600X CPU, 32 GB RAM, and RTX 3090.

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

In Lorerim, there's a FPS Stabilizer mod enabled by Shizof, is that what you mean? I'm not sure about VRAM, i wish I had 24GB now! Are you trying to force your GPU to use more VRAM to get more performance? looks like the 5600x is the bottleneck, because that 3090 is an absolute BEAST, and the CPU can't keep up. but definitely ask more people for their opinion first

[@SkyrimModdedGameplaybyCastle]

@ModdingZone-r3z yes, that's the mod. Looks like it's already included. But try adjusting the fps target settings in the .ini to see if it helps. For example, my 60 fps monitor I use an fps target just below that and use like 55. So fps fps below 55 will trigger the mod to adjust terrain settings. You're probably right about my CPU bottleneck....I previously had a 2080Ti and thought upgrading to 3090 would bump performance... not really by much tbh. I think I need to budget for an upgraded motherboard and cpu. Likely stick with AMD though. Let me know if you have any recommendations.

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

@@SkyrimModdedGameplaybyCastle I didn't know about fps target, thanks! As for CPU, not sure what your set budget is, but the X3D cache is a huge boost for modded skyrim. 7800X3D best bang for buck in this scenario, but 9800x3d around the corner. Been wanting to look into Intel, but I'm loving AMD for 7 years now.

[@SkyrimModdedGameplaybyCastle]

@@ModdingZone-r3z great tip! I haven’t been following the latest CPU’s so this is great start!

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

@@SkyrimModdedGameplaybyCastle Holiday is coming up, so there should be a nice sale. RTX 5090 also coming maybe early 2025, so yeah, tech is draining our wallets lol

[@aljoxoxo]

Skyrim is single threaded rendering (game is old as shit) and Starfield/CE2 finally implemented multithreaded rendering. This is primarily why you saw the difference in cpu utilization between the two games. Tbh I don’t think you really did enough here to present this vid as a performance comparison between these lists, or if you did the footage showcased for non-LoreRim was not sufficient. Comparing a list like Eldergleam (pretty minimal and mostly focused on just baseline visuals) to a list like LoreRim or Apostasy (esp using Whiterun as a compare point) is a little unfair to the other lists since their draws are higher by nature of just cluttering the cities in a way EG doesn’t. Also a lot of people in comments blaming Scripts (papyrus VM) for the poor performance in other lists… that isn’t the issue here.

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

hey, thanks for the comment! I originally intended for this video to be a performance testing for a few of my favorite modlists, and not necessarily a "comparison" between the modlist. But I get what you mean though, the video does make it seem like I'm unfairly comparing the modlists, and that's like apples and oranges type of comparison. It's given me some points to think about, thank you.

[@abrahambobst4602]

Are you using VRAMr too? The VRAMr mod helps a lot. Also, BGS games have always been greatly limited by the CPU due to scripts, and then it becomes even more important when running modded BGS games.

[@ashiok]

Weird, I tried using this mod and it made my game's performance noticeably more unstable/worse.

[@abrahambobst4602]

@@ashiok Interesting, maybe it depends on load order or mods installed then. As he showed in the vid when he switched between mod lists some were far more stable fps wise.

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

I don't see VRAMr in Lorerim or Eldergleam modlist, tried it separately in another modlist, but I didn't notice a difference. Maybe due to user error on my part

[@abrahambobst4602]

@@ModdingZone-r3z Even, the modpack maker of Lorerim made a vid about VRAMr and that is why I know about it.

[@abrahambobst4602]

@@ModdingZone-r3z I am also using VRAMr in another modlist and it seems to help. Though, I haven't tried using the PureDark Nvidia frame gen mod yet. Perhaps, will see better results with it.

[@stevewilliams5498]

I can’t even play a wabbajacklist without the game stuttering heavily. Like my fps is constantly skipping around but I can’t even walk in a normal area without the game jerking and stuttering. I don’t get why I can’t get the game to a stable place. I’ve done a lot of tweaking and no guides seem to work for me. 3060ti Ryzen 7 5800x 16ddr4 ram

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

your fps stuttering is due to hardware, as I'm sure you already know. also, VRAM on 3060ti is lower side. you're on Ultra or performance mode? ENB will destroy FPS too. which modlist have you tried, most are very hardware demanding

[@stocadg]

Tip: use puredark's upscaller.

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

after the puredark controversy, I'm having second thoughts. I'm sure it's great, many people have had good results with Puredark. Maybe in future. But currently trying out lossless scaling

[@stocadg]

@@ModdingZone-r3z what controversy? it just works.

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

@@stocadg I've used Puredark before in the Starfield days, it's pretty good. But the controversy is PD threatening to put malware in software. not good for building trust after that

[@themanhimself436]

Do you think in the next decade a cpu will be released that can handle 19k draw count?

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

yes, in next decade we can have cpu that can handle 19k draw count and draw 19k AI girlfriends at the same time. On a serious note, Skyrim is on dx11, which has performance hits at 12k draw counts. If it were built with dx12, apparently which can do 200,000 draw counts. maybe ES6?

[@themanhimself436]

@@ModdingZone-r3z can't wait

[@MizterMoonshine]

I wonder how these huge modlists would run with Community Shaders. I do have a 3080 Ti and Ryzen 7 5800x but where you're getting 30-40 FPS I'm getting 90-100 FPS on my own 1000+ modlist.

[@wFTHw]

@@MizterMoonshine i have a rtx 3050 gigabyte eagle and ryzen 5 5600x 32gb ddr4, lorerim on performance profile(only community shaders no enb) runs above 60, but with dlss and fsrfg mod it goes near 100 in crowded and open areas

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

interesting, I do want to give community shaders a try. ENB tanking FPS hard, basically cuts fps in half

[@ericc2939]

Damn what is that body and outfit mod?

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

twilight princess with CBBE body!

[@ericc2939]

@@ModdingZone-r3z that’s cbbe?? I swear mine doesn’t look like that! Maybe it’s the pants 😆 thanks!

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

@@ericc2939 there's different bodyslides for cbbe. but it could be the shadow lol

[@proteusblack8913]

Eldergleam isn't using JK mods. Pretty sure that's most of why your fps is so good.

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

thanks for bringing this up! Just saw Lorerim 2.0 has 30 plus various JK mods. So beautiful, but so hard on performance lol

[@sofadhana1289]

I would assume that the reason for eldergleam having a higher FPS is that it probably uses a lower resolution on textures vs the other two - the VRAM usage is lower, even though the GPU usage is higher. To me, that means the system isn't as bottlenecked by the CPU. As you say, Eldergleam still looks great - there isn't really a difference between 2K and 4K unless you're really looking for it.

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

Lorerim has about 10+ Jk mods, so definitely heavy on the VRAM. I'm wondering if the 4070s had 24GB of ram, would Lorerim perform even better, given all other spec is the same. Another way to test to see if my CPU is the bottle neck is to get the 7800x3D, or 7950x3d LOL. Basically I'd need to eat cardboard with a side of freshly cut lawn grass for dinner for a few months.

[@shaquillemartin5674]

WHAT OUTFIT MOD IS THAT??!!!!!!

[@astrojeet]

Twilight Princess Armor

[@shaquillemartin5674]

@@astrojeet Love you!

[@georgegriffo-oe2nz]

Try puredarks dlss n framegen for ur next test

[@K-kw4bb]

how much difference does it make?

[@wutais]

@@K-kw4bbalot, i use it with 3080 and 7800x3d i can average 30-55 outside and 60fps inside with ultra quality preset. with fsr framegen I get to play 60fps with unnoticeable latency. 4K resolution

[@zenoxp8928]

With Skyrim because it isn't multi-threaded (Unless there is a mod that changes this) it'll always be CPU limited, this changes with Fallout 76 and Starfield I believe hence why Starfield has better performance

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

yep! Starfield is also using dx12 and can handle more draw calls. That last update was huge to FPS, it's much better now! If only Skyrim was released AFTER dx12 release...

[@zenoxp8928]

@@ModdingZone-r3z yeah, I think it helped the fact they also untied the FPS from the physics too

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

@@zenoxp8928 starfield is not too bad now, lets hope shattered space can bring better things!

[@zenoxp8928]

@ModdingZone-r3z agreed, I think like Fallout 4 it'll take about a year or two before good mods will come out anyway

[@ModdingZone-r3z]

@@zenoxp8928 starfield is a huge sandbox, if Bethesda can fix a few fundamental issues, then modding can really shine