Model size & regulations - F1 Wind Tunnel Explained 8/8 - Sauber F1 Team

[@sauberf1team]

*Why is the model scale in the wind tunnel 60%? How do F1 regulations limit aero testing?* Enjoy the final video of our *Wind Tunnel Explained* series! So... We're at the end of our 8-part series... *Which one of the 8 parts did you like most or find most interesting?* We hope you learned a bit (or two) about the incredible efforts behind running a Formula One team watching these videos! #SauberF1Team #TechBites #F1 #aerodynamics #WindTunnel #engineering #F1explained #Formula1 #FormulaOne #technology

[@BradMcClaren]

I can't pick just one, so I'll choose all 8!

[@SuperWoodspoon]

Excellent series, loved all of them

[@VivianNewman]

Great series.. He is really passionate about aerodynamics and F1.. Makes for a great teacher

[@LorenzoDeLuca]

Waiting for the 2nd season Sauber F1 Team

[@emielplomp3930]

just 've got time to watch the video, most briljant part if you aks me! hope next tech vid's are just so ore even beter, love it. the more interesting part the calculations, loved it! love to see engine testing on a powerbank for the next episode...

[@cefre00]

Enjoyed the whole series really-really much! :) Thank you for that to Willem Toet and the Sauber F1 Team! :)

[@sauberf1team]

Thanks a lot for your feedback, Viktor Pálinkás! Happy to hear you enjoyed the videos!

[@cefre00]

Sauber F1 Team Sure, I did! :) This should be a best pratice in F1 to other teams as well. One other thing: do you guys plan to do such other videos, like about the power units? It would be very interesting. :)

[@sauberf1team]

We don't make power units and we couldn't show the ones we get from Maranello... But we're planning more Tech Bites videos about other stuff. Lots of ideas :-)

[@cefre00]

Ok, understood. I did not think it over well. :) I'm looking forward to hear from the new Tech Bites and thank you very much for the quick reply. :)

[@CarOfTheWeekNStuff]

I'd love a short snippet of Williem saying "Other people might be watching" to insert into random videos from time to time. Comedic gold!

[@DiegoTrapero]

Great, great, great series. Thank you very much. A am an engineering student and I have enjoyed the videos very much. Very good ending as well, explaining the significance of the scaling factors, great insights.

[@sauberf1team]

Muchas gracias, Diego Trapero! It's quite tricky to make these videos interesting enough for engineers and experts (there seem to be a lot of them out there) while not overwhelming the "casual" viewer...

[@AIjordan1]

Thank you very much Mr. Willem. I like your way in simplifying the most complicated things, I am so proud that I met you at Silverstone, hope to meet again next year.

[@sauberf1team]

Agreed, Willem is amazing in making really complex things sound quite simple :-) Thanks for watching, Omar Qawasmeh!

[@cben86]

Can you do a series on CFD? How it has evolved? Where is it going? Do you start with CFD and validate in the wind tunnel?

[@sauberf1team]

Good idea... We already spoke about this with Willem when we filmed this latest video :-) In fact, we have so many ideas for great videos - and just not enough time to do them all... CFD, car setup, influence of air pressure to name just a few... But we'll make this promise to you: We'll be back with more highly interesting and exciting TECH BITES videos!

[@godot156]

Thanks guys, appreciate your effort to share knowlege with F1 fans.

[@sauberf1team]

Thanks a lot for watching and commenting, Goran Domazet! We'll be back with more, so stay tuned!

[@DJBigMD]

i love how your videos explain things just enough for a fan to understand! :) :)

[@sauberf1team]

That's the idea, Big MD. To show fans the complexity behind running an F1 team without overwhelming them with too much maths or technical details. Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@j3tho]

Loved the feature! Gained some really cool insights! Thumbs up for that! Would be cool if you can do something about CFD or quality control in the future.

[@v_alexiadis]

Thank you for all the videos guys! They were amazing!

[@sauberf1team]

_Blushing_ ;-) Thanks for watching, ianiva!

[@Frozenfoxradio]

Thank you for this series, learned a TON! You guys always do a fantastic job with giving us info and access!

[@sauberf1team]

Highly appreciate the positive feedback, thank you! There's so much detail behind F1 racing that many fans simply don't know about... And we thought we'd provide some insights into what's usually one of the best kept secrets. But no worries, we wouldn't reveal anything that other teams could really learn anything from ;-)

[@lenaeleomar]

Hello, all right? Initially, I want to thank you, for this series of video helped me understand much more this science is the development of a formula 1 in wind tunnel. Also thank SAUBER that through actions such as these, "opens the doors of his factory" to us (F1 fans and logically, SAUBER fans). I leave with suggestion to hold a series about grip. Thank you!

[@phoneindustrydesign]

you didnt know that I was watching and now you ruined your next season, we heard everything we needed! :D still listening so keep making those videos :P

[@eur1gys]

great info in this series - many thanks !!!!

[@sauberf1team]

Thanks for the comment, Croc. We apprecaite all the positive feedback!

[@Spitfire_Spitfire]

Are you interested in pressure and temperature sensitive paint to add to your toolbox? It would really help cut down on testing time, CFD validation, and cost ... Thanks for the informative series ...

[@brbelding]

For the "Translation of Forces based on speed" Diagram at 6:03, shouldn't the faster wind speeds be attributed to the 60% scale model in order to keep the Reynolds numbers of the cars equal, and the tests dynamically similar?

[@sauberf1team]

Hi *****, Willem says: You're absolutely correct, it would be better to test a 60% model at higher speed. The rules however prevent us from doing this. Nevertheless, despite changes of Reynolds number the forces scale reasonably well in the way we described (the Reynolds number is not changing dramatically).

[@AlexHMusic]

thanks again for using my music again sauber f1 team! :)

[@sauberf1team]

Thanks for letting us, Alex H!

[@AlexHMusic]

Sauber F1 Team anytime ^^

[@denistablica]

can you show me/us a picture of chassis, any year would do, I would just like to know what it look like Thank you for nice series

[@Cynderfan35]

How much Sauber targets next season (2015) to make improvements? the work you do in wind tunnel hopefully helps to improve the car. even i'm fan of rival team, i got respect to each team and specially ones that have been around long time (like Sauber has been)

[@sauberf1team]

Cynderfan35 Thanks a lot. We certainly hope that the C34 will perform better than this year's racer...

[@Cynderfan35]

hopefully it will. how much did sauber spend money to this year's car? as i've heard that the money that simply goes to the car is huge? is this secret that teams don't share?

[@BradMcClaren]

The biggest challenge this year was the engine's lack of power.

[@peterb8387]

Why is the base pressure of the car "fixed" with respect to the diffuser ? Is the diffuser a "diffuser" like in a duct ? I have read the diffuser used in motorsport is a diffuser geometrically, but not in function ? It was suggested in an issue of Bernoulli magazine that diffuser simply "curves" airflow ? But I fail to see how the airflow is not expanding as in a duct ? Clearly the whole this is not sealed as in a duct but the diffuser does "expand" and "curve" the airflow to a FIXED BASE pressure ? Why is it fixed with respect to the underbody ? How can you make peaky or less peaky diffuser in general ? How does high nose increase rear downforce potential ? I love these unique videos !!!! Technology is incredible !!!

[@sauberf1team]

Hey there, Peter B, which F1 team do you work for? ;-) You're far too knowledgable for this "simple" series! :-) Simply put, given that we run quite a lot of downforce at most tracks, pushing the car through the air the way we do punches a hole in the air the size of which does not change very much with things like ride height, yaw angle, etc. So strictly speaking the base pressure does change a little, just not very much. In fact, looking at this question/comment and your other comment, we can't answer in a few words. If you're lucky we'll come up with a dedicated video. How would that be?

[@peterb8387]

Sauber F1 Team A video like that would be like MANNA FROM HEAVEN !! I never got to watch F1 on TV as a kid. Not until 2005 did I get to watch F1 on full time basis. Just coming out of University and had to bust my behind buying whatever academic literature I could find on F1 (especially aerodynamics) and I've spent a small fortune on old issues of Racecar Engineering, Race Tech, F1 Race Technology and old books by Iam Bamsey. My degree is in electronics but I sat in on aerodynamics classes to immediately realize the mathematics used there were pretty much identical to those I learned in the study of electromagnetic fields (field theory). Vector calculus, line integrals, etc. Stokes theorem can be applied to both quantitative aerodynamic analysis and electromagnetism. Two sides of the same coin !!! All that being said, literature is scare, most papers don't even publish results on pitch sweeps. I contacted the author of aero conference in 1994 in Italy, named Gino Sovran, and got the original paper through one of his colleagues. He put forward in that presentation that the base pressure of the vehicle is essentially fixed. Over the phone he told me basically most of the air around the vehicle goes around the top and sides and the least amount under the car, so the wake is not affected too much by the underbody flow. His colleague gave me all the unpublished data from their SAE paper in 1998, and I FINALLY got to see things what the pressure distribution looks like under the bluff body with various changes in pitch. In fact the downforce nearly tripled as the balance moved forward. They lowered the model down until the diffuser stalled (for whatever reason I don't know yet, other than perhaps the air gets worked harder and harder as the the leading edge of the bluff body approaches the moving ground and the 9 degree diffuser stalled BEFORE the leading edge touched the ground !! AMAZING !! In fact the the more forward rake the worse the magnitude of the stall according to the data I saw). I even tried to get a copy of Adrian Newey's 1980 thesis which is some library in Malaysia through a University inter-library loan, but they could not reproduce a copy for me without his consent. I tried over twitter, but he has not been on his account since 2012 March !! I figure I will send an envelope package to his office at Red Bull some time. Basically in the first issue of Racecar Engineering magazine from Spring 1991 (which cost me almost $200.00 Us dollars on ebay to buy) there were some quotes from his paper. The one that caught my eye was that Newey concluded the underbody of the car "can be treated as a form of duct, that acts independently of the upper surfaces PROVIDED the pressure at the diffuser/tunnel exit/outlet remains constant). I wanted to read how he came to that conclusion and also when that condition is not valid. In a back issue of Bernoulli magazine some "F1 insider/expert) said strictly speaking the diffuser is a means to curve the airflow. That the device used in motorsport is, strictly speaking, not a diffuser in function, but only geometrically. Funnily enough, this individual sort of contradicted themselves in the next paragraph speaking of "expansion" in the airflow and there being a "definite" relationship between the diffuser inlet and outlet. The diffuser height and length is strictly regulated these days. So I figure the strakes/turning vanes/baffles are one way to tune the diffuser. Apparently these sub channels can have their own individual lateral and longitudinal pressure gradients. Perhaps that is how you guys "stall" the diffuser on straights. Harvey Postlewaite said in Race Tech Issue 5 that one had to "know how to do it of course." One thing I really want to know is how "dirty" (turbulent) air hurts underfloor downforce. I know the upwash and wake of the car ahead changes the effective angle of attack of the air hitting the wing of the following car, and that the wake has reduced velocity in the horizontal direction also, hence less momentum. But what bugs me is how long before the air particles escape the wake and become clean air again back at full static pressure (100 percent potential energy again) before it hits another race car. Keep up the good work !! - Pete

[@sauberf1team]

Peter B Wow, this is possibly the longest comment ever on KZbin ;-) As we said: you're clearly very knowledgeable and we'll try to answer some of your questions in a video. Can't promise anything yet, though, but we'll try.

[@supernicoo93]

thanks! love this videos!

[@sauberf1team]

Love the great feedback! Thanks :-)

[@peterb8387]

Can you PLEASE have Willem Toet explain how high noses increase downforce and how diffusers work ? Do they they "curve" or "expand" airflow ? I have heard F1 diffusers are not strictly diffusers like in a duct. How can the strakes be set up for a peaky diffuser or one with more benign downforce (soft instead of hard abrupt stall) ?

[@porav05]

as you said FIA has made some restrictions on testing hours. how do they ensure that team abide by rules of no. of hours of testing, is there a FIA representative always present in a team's factory??

[@sauberf1team]

They do audits on site every now and then, and we have a camera taking pictures that we send through. See our wind tunnel time lapse video (Tech Bites)...

[@plmbngndtheglue4833]

fascinating information~

[@hugh3196]

how about a video on how a simulator is built and works in tangent with data, or a gearbox dyno?

[@sauberf1team]

***** We don't have a simulator ;-)

[@Raceworldtv]

Great series! Are you happy for us to include in The RaceWorld Show - 5 min daily roundup of trending motorsport videos, for more fans to see? DM or [e-mail]

[@gulfcoastmarc6388]

You said there were hundreds of pressure sensors? Where are they? If they're on top of the skin of the car, they'd throw off the car's aerodynamics, if they're under the skin, wouldn't you change the aerodynamics when you removed them? Does that make sense?

[@sauberf1team]

Just to give one example: tiny holes and capillary tubes along the floor to measure pressure distribution...

[@FreeStateMarc]

+Sauber F1 Team so the sensors are not attached to the car itself?

[@sauberf1team]

They are hidden within the model.

[@FreeStateMarc]

I hope I'm not driving you nuts, but I really want to understand this. If you're using a real car that will see the track in competition rather than a model, it can't be done that way, can it?

[@sauberf1team]

Technically our wind tunnel would allow for a real-size car to be tested. It is banned by regulations though, we are only allowed to test 60% models.

[@mbsfaridi]

These regulations help to balance out the race but they really stopping the progress for which F1 was known for.

[@TedSchoenling]

Now now, you can tell us the more secret details.. we won't tell anybody ;)

[@HexxuSz]

Alex H and f1 fuck yeah

[@denistablica]

can you show me/us a picture of chassis, any year would do, I would just like to know what it look like Thank you for nice series

[@sauberf1team]

Sent you a picture via Google+... Thanks for watching!

[@denistablica]

Sauber F1 Team Hello Thank you for picture, but I can't find it. I really don't know how to use Google+