Modern Dragon Ball's Biggest Mistake

[@TotallyNotMark]

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[@DannyMotta]

Oh god I found myself in another Totally Not Mark Video 😂

[@TotallyNotMark]

@DannyMotta only this time, there’s common ground lol

[@messihr]

Counter point: It was a good idea to cast the de-aging wish, but the scope and effects were wrong. I argue the wish should have been "turn them all into 10 year olds". Ok, why? If all the cast was made 10, AND the effect carried a power scaling addition (i.e. you revert to however strong you were, or would likely be at 10) then this could have been a great side story for Gohan, Goten, kid Trunks and Piccolo. All would be SSJ power, or more while Goku, Vegeta etc would be in the low thousands at best. The tension would be higher, most of the plot holes would have been tempered and we could have actual character development. Hell, might even fix Gohan's power BS in Resurrection F.

[@TramiNguyen-oi3kp]

Awesome!

[@DaYapGuy]

Bad sponsor.

[@PlagueOfGripes]

I like the idea that the reason why Vegeta doesnt use SSJ3 in the future is because at some point Bulma says he looks ridiculous, so he just refuses to rely on it afterwards out of embarrassment. It definitely fits him more when he has Sonic the Hedgehog proportions to utilize the big profile of the hair.

[@Randomaccount9470]

Daima gripes when? Jk love your content BTW Gohan video was amazing

[@PlagueOfGripes]

@Randomaccount9470 I did that. But KZbin likes to bury all my videos I try to release weekly.

[@Green-FUKUFUKUFUKUFUKUFUKU]

I've always felt this way about Super Saiyan 3 tbh. I like it on Gotenks though, because he's supposed to be silly looking.

[@FishyEditor]

It's a good form but not that classy

[@PeaceB58]

Rare plague of gripes W

[@icebitezart]

I love Daima, but I need two things. When the DBS manga is adapted, PLEASE keep these animators. If we have to go back to modern Yamamuro’s stiff poses, plastic highlights and saturated, nondynamic colors after Broly and Daima that’d be some BULLSHIT And I need an adult final fight to occur in Daima so that the Sparking Zero devs don’t skimp out on Z-End Super Saiyan 3 Vegeta. If adult Super Saiyan 3 Vegeta is in a major fight in Daima they will have zero excuse.

[@theopulentone1650]

That's "if" the dbs manga gets adapted. Considering all the drama going on over the property rights of Dragonball, and how the movie/anime continuity is racing to get to the end ond of Z. I have my doubts that the manga will become a part of the animated canon.

[@Edgarstark-n92]

I don't see it

[@miloku18]

>PLEASE keep these animators. If we have to go back to modern Yamamuro’s stiff poses, plastic highlights and saturated, nondynamic colors after Broly and Daima that’d be some BULLSHIT It's not about the animators, it's about the designers. You want Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru (character designs) and Rumiko Nagai (colour design) to stay, probably Naoyuki Wada as well (photographic direction). That said, the show wouldn't have looked the way it looks without the directors, Aya Komaki mostly, as I'd assume she was the one responsible for most of the aesthetic choices. Animators don't have anything to say about it, they just draw and what they draw is based on the character sheets created by the character designer.

[@pric3lessl0s3r5]

Same thoughts

[@anonymous19548]

We already know they wouldn't, they did hire a new character designer or director or whatever since the Broly movie, I think they just reserve Yamamuro style for stuff like Dragon Ball Heroes and stuff like that.

[@Kuksiko]

making vegeta smaller doesnt change anything, because he already is.

[@tyrant-den884]

Still not even as short as his first appearance.

[@db9454]

THIS ^ 😭 Vegeta is a short king

[@Sil-o-tronuhh]

Microscopic even 😭

[@tyrant-den884]

@humanfromthesolarsystempla3143 head ratio is disturbing though

[@dansmith1661]

Krillin was ready for this.

[@AhmedHussain-ju6xd]

I think toryiama didn't make them children as a challenge to overcome for the characters. He made them children for cuz he wanted to

[@tyrant-den884]

He probably thought it would take less time to draw.

[@Axyyy]

@@tyrant-den884he doesn’t have anything to do with the drawing lol

[@imnotlikeanyone]

@@tyrant-den884 he just liked kid goku, that's it

[@MeatSnax]

Yeah you can feel it in the original manga pages, once Goku becomes an adult, you can sort of feel the stretch of "just one more arc...". The "Z" portion balloons out to become more of the story overall, but you can tell that Toriyama saw Dragon Ball as the story of a little monkey boy and his friends.

[@Mari_Izu]

Iirc them becoming kids was already a concept of the show before Toriyama joined and rewrote, so he just liked the concept.

[@NuttyBlueRice]

People just want to get past that time skip.

[@Not_obligated2care]

Bro the exhaustion I feel from your comment is mutual 😭😂. Like bro, dragon ball has felt like it’s been stuck in time, is it so bad to just want to move forward and get more world building/ development in the current story?? Regardless I totally get what toriyama was aiming for. I just feel this released in the wrong era/at the wrong time.

[@KanyeT1306]

I want to see Trunks and Goten do something! They were tee'd up to take over with Buu but were then just shoved aside as comedy relief. Instead of treading the same fuckig story beats over and over again (Vegeta needs to catch up to Goku, Gohan need to focus on his training more). Instead, give us something new with a jump forward in time. Have Goten and Trunks train with Goku and Vegeta under Whis, and have Broly be an actual third member of the squad. I think the biggest thing holding them back is the canonical ending of Z with Goku taking Uub away. They are trying to cram all these sagas in a seven year window. I honestly think they should just retcon that and move on already.

[@OppySnop]

@@KanyeT1306 A lot of what you mentioned was shown in the DBS: Superhero movie (which is cannon apparently). Gohan had been training a bit more and gets a new form. Piccolo gets a new form. Goten and Trunks are noticeably older. And in the end of the movie, Vegeta finally gets to beat Goku and Broly is there training with them on Beerus’ planet.

[@edogawaconan945]

​@@OppySnopGohan training only involve learning SBC. if he did train properly he should had gone Ultimate right there and there instead of seing Pan got threathen. It feels like the writer just put the line at the end of the movie without any thoughts at all betraying the narrative the movie itself is set on. Even if Goten and Trunks got older they still treated as a joke.

[@RantRadio]

Bruh!!! Better off reading the awesome fanfic manga of Dragon Ball with a time skip. They're gonna cram 10 more God level enemies into that 7yr "peaceful" time gap after defeating Kid Buu. It's time to age Goku and Vegeta and begin the process of moving em out of the picture but not as a whole. Theres: Goten, Trunks, Pan, Uub, even Bulla could be inspired by Pan to take up fighting which makes Vegeta happy af. Yamcha could even have a secret child out of wedlock seen as he lives as playa, or even Tien, who was finally found by Launch and they both settled down together at his dojo, and there's still Maron, the daughter of an android and the earth's strongest human. Piccolo could even lay another egg with ALL his essence and knowledge to birth a new Jr Piccolo like before. At least that way, we can go back to enemies who's powers should NOT be rivalling Goku and Vegeta at this point, but can still rival a SSJ1 & 2. We'd get awesome moments like Pan breaking the SSJ barrier witnessing the death of Bulla or vice versa. Krillin could be the new turtle hermit

[@dg-dm1rr]

I miss when db wasnt scared to have a character get a bloody hole punched thru their chest

[@joeblazer3429]

You would've liked the Moro and Granola arcs of super then. Unfortunately we have this instead

[@Skeloperch]

Daima wouldn't have been good with actual battle damage, but it certainly would've been better than it is now.

[@joeblazer3429]

@@Skeloperch Honestly my biggest problem with Daima is the incredibly bad power scaling they do to pad out the show. Like not being able to fly faster than some ships, I don't care how heavy the air is. And not being able to fight leviathan or even regular as ground troops.

[@TheAsj97]

@@JohnSmith-q4u8y At least Super's insane power scaling scales characters UP for the sake of having fun fights. It's bad, but it's infinitely better than scaling galaxy busters down to goons with guns level, now that is truly inexcusable.

[@Overrated7901]

@@joeblazer3429Unfortunately???

[@Aldrnari956]

I’ve enjoyed Daima immensely, but I am starting to get tired of the fake tension and drama that drags out episodes for no real reason. The Tamagami fights were fantastic and made sense in typical Dragon Ball fashion as to why Goku and Vegeta built up to the win stead of going all out; the rule of cool wins over plain logic. But in the last few, they’ve struggled against stuff that makes no sense for them to struggle against. “OH no, there’s a couple dozen regular dudes with blasters shooting at characters who can not only level entire planets, but move fast enough to make that blaster fire look slow motion. We had better drag out them struggling against those two dozen normal dudes for the next 15 minutes so that we have a full episode of content.” Goku, Vegeta, and Piccolo could have ended that fight in a few seconds without killing anyone or allowing damage to the buildings around them. Instead, we have to have fake drama and pretend they are struggling. Don’t get me wrong, I love the world building, the characters, the production values, the acting, sound design, and everything else. It’s just that dang pacing issue that bugs me.

[@BakiX]

100% accurate.

[@feltskate._.2299]

I gotta disagree only because all of dragon ball has fake tension, when super comes back it wouldn't have tension because we know that the end of z section still needs to happen meaning they will all be fine. If you showed someone dragon ball from start to finish in chronological order then they'd probably feel the tension.

[@gigian1000]

It didn't bother me until this last episode, the giants were fine because you could argue they are so strong they noone would bother them. But them struggling against soms dudes with stun guns for so long wasn't fun, but frustrating.

[@feltskate._.2299]

@@gigian1000 I was the opposite, the giant episode felt to me really slow. It was kinda cool, but they did take the entire episode for that. Atleast in ep 15 we got some more lore, and I'm sure things are gonna kick up for these last 5.

[@purplevincent4454]

​@@gigian1000whole time in the episode I was wondering why either of them didn't just go ssj let alone ssj3. Definition of fake tension. Goku and vegeta usually don't go full out off the bat in 1v1 to test their opponent. When they are really in trouble it makes no sense for them to not power up.

[@Macapta]

I think seeing Teenage Goku again would have been better. We only got him for such a short time at the end of OG Dragonball.

[@imgon714]

dude frrrrrr. where he had that random cool outfit

[@PuppyLynch]

Goku during the Piccolo Jr. Arc? Why? How would that affect the story and what purpose would it serve? It's been implied canonically on multiple occasions that Goku has barely aged if at all since becoming an adult.

[@KaKarol]

​@@PuppyLynchhe said he wants goku to grow up, from a young kid into adult again.

[@SsjkidsSaveCosmo08]

He's pretty much just a rounder Adult Goku tbh

[@zenkai182]

only way to tell is if they tried adapting the end of og artstyle. teen Goku would prob look the same as adult Goku js with less muscles

[@Mapple-qp6yg]

Daima is a result of the older producers and Toriyama wanting to go back to the beginning of the show and reminisce. Only, they are doing that in the middle of the newest series and all but put it on hold. It was never gonna be a success when the question of “we could be watching Moro” is in the head of every fan watching it.

[@heavenlysenju9948]

Nah, I still think the show shouldn't come back. We really do need the manga to guide the show. I wish Toyotaro had continued the manga but he's going through a lot and won't be too hard on the guy.

[@Neoicecreaman]

fuck moro. Actual OG dragonball fans like me are enjoying this (Daima) and are happy with it. We'll get scream punch ball super back soon enough.

[@Baldy_McNosehair]

​@@heavenlysenju9948Not gonna lie i like Daiama more than Z or Super becasue it returned to its originally DB roots, not just fighting every second.

[@pokeman5699]

why should anyone care what the "newest" series is? why should i care about ever watching moro or granolah get an adaptation? those arcs were shitshows anyways Daima has been a breath of fresh air and has consistently been more fun and engaging than Super ever was

[@purplevincent4454]

​@@pokeman5699super fans only like fights they don't care about plot. I think super (especially the manga arcs) are downright terrible. Just spamming new forms (that aren't even earned mind you such as gohan, piccolo, broly, granolah, gas). It's garbage. Daima at least (so far) didn't go that route of new form spamming (yes vegeta has ssj3 but considering he had ssg it made sense he could do this for a while). I don't like super at all. Going the demon realm route with regular ssj forms and not overpowered u6 saiyans and the red and blue and white and purple forms is better. Plus the demon realm and magic was an unexplored part of the series.

[@aquelgamermexicano]

Only 4 minutes in, so i'll keep watching for the sake of hearing the whole perspective. Personally, i don't think that would have helped. In the same clips you used to represent the "public reception" of Daima, you intentionally skip a certain quote: "We wanted Moro..." I'm sure the part of them being kids had an effect, but it seems people fail to understand that Dragon Ball Super Is almost 10 years old at this point, there are people who grew up with Super the same way others grew up with Z. Daima was always going to be a tricky sell, kids or not, since the thing people were asking for, was for the Dragon Ball Super anime to continue.

[@Mari_Izu]

the thing is, no anime is made because people are asking.

[@BakiX]

@@Mari_Izu ...What...? That makes zero sense lol.

[@bloody4558]

@@BakiX Makes all the sense in the world. What she is saying is that, people don't write stories or make anime just because someone is asking for it. It's simply not that kind of industry. Writers write becase they have an Idea they want to explore, not because they want to give what the majority wants. Anyways, what's being said here is this. People probably didn't complaing because they weren't getting a continuation of Super.

[@IncognitoActivado]

I grew up with Dragonball first, Dragonball Z second and Dragonball GT last, in that order.

[@xinf3ctdx]

@@bloody4558Nah, some do. Some anime are made just because people want them. That’s why Super was made. Because people wanted Dragonball to come back and there was an opportunity to capitalize on that and profit off of what people wanted. That’s exactly why you SHOULDNT just make an anime because people want it. Because then you’ll get Dragonball Super, a series that had no business existing where the writers had no idea what to do with it for the majority of its life.

[@ashketchup7354]

0:39 I had to play this back because I almost couldn't understand your statement. Then I looked it up and was shocked that Daima is only supposed to have 20 episodes. What the hell?

[@Malenbolai]

source : someone's ass

[@ThatBoyBent]

Only four episodes left

[@KonEl17]

Yeh it's not a long running show it's just celebration of Dragon Ball

[@alphavecto]

@@ThatBoyBent isnt it 5 episodes left? we are on episode 15 out of 20

[@CianaCorto]

@@alphavecto Netflix is one week behind. Episode 16 is already out on other websites.

[@crispkiller6701]

To tell the truth Damia was doomed the second it turned Goku into a kid, no matter how good the fights are people want adult Goku instead of a kid Edit: Some of yall are kinda dumb I never said I hated daima or agree with this take😭

[@Squorzel]

Yeah basically. The show can be some of the best in history, but it would still be written off because of how it looks (also I’m not saying it’s good or bad, I haven’t watched much dragon ball, but it’s interesting how people act sometimes).

[@pie5556]

Daima was doomed on conception. No one wants this childish comedy version of Dragonball anymore. We want the story to be mature and serious. I think a much better show concept would have been if we got to follow Raditz & Vegeta's childhood & teen years all the way up to when they decide to try and recruit Kakarot. II hate to say it but with Toriyama having passed away. Maybe now we can get some good and coherent story-telling.

[@dylanokito5404]

@@pie5556 pls stfu and save that fanfic shit for something else

[@purpleey]

​@@pie5556 You hit the nail on the head

[@Bgmi1234_1]

Kid Goku is the best Goku, you will never know it because you only watched abridged z lol

[@hiddenleif6854]

The instant I saw they were gonna be kids, I knew I wouldn’t be watching. I don’t begrudge them that creative decision at all, it just makes content I’m not in the market for.

[@fightedmealready2692]

You can be an OG Dragon Ball fan and not like Daima. Like the quality of writing and pacing are so drastically worse in Daima. The lack of stakes and the whole power scaling also makes it pretty lame to watch. Like Kid Goku can 100% take out fodder soldiers with guns, especially if he can just turn super saiyan. Trying to force tension like that and squeeze nostalgia out of me by turning the cast into children does not make for good writing

[@aribyeasirahmedzim8644]

It could have been good if they just finished this series in 12 EPs . I am pretty sure they are gonna rush the last 5 EPs as there are lots of important things and the climax can be interesting if they want it to be. They could have at least used one ep to explain Rymus,Zalama and the history of multiverse and beyond but they just don't know how to write DB nowadays.

[@fightedmealready2692]

@@aribyeasirahmedzim8644The show sadly just set up way to much that they would have to explain in that time. Definitely could have done with less fillers tho

[@purpleey]

Glad to see there are sensible OG DB fans that also dont like Daima

[@fightedmealready2692]

@@purpleeyYah a lot of this video seemed like excuses and not real reasons. Like a good example is Goku doesn’t have to be a Kid for the Tamagami fight, lmao they could have just made the Tamagami bigger to scale Goku down in comparison. They would still jave the same choreography and everything, just as adults

[@mups4016]

​@@fightedmealready2692he also puts glorio interactions on a pedestal like the show hinges on them

[@Netherwolf6100]

I stand by this when I say, Daima would have been far more interesting if it were a story about a young Goten, Trunks and Dende, rather than turning Goku, Vegeta and the others into kids. Roughly the same story beats would apply, but no Shin, Goku and Vegeta are off training and Glorio would come to Earth, seeking the strongest for the Demon World's plan. Mistaking Goten for Goku, he's asked to join Glorio and go to Demon World with Trunks, suspecting something is off, joins in. Fearing what may happen to the boys if they go off on their own, Dende stows away on the ship and follows after the boys, and the story proceeds from there. Goten and Trunks would fit the light hearted tone and nature of the story, rather than using Goku and Vegeta and once again, regressing Goku's sense of maturity in exchange for comedy. Kid Goten is a perfect mirror for Kid Goku so the brand stays intact. He's just as pure, goofy and prone to danger as his father without ruining his character and I'm fact, this journey could serve to develop his character instead. Trunks being there is a great way to add a voice of reason that's crafty and skeptical of the situation, but has just enough childlike curiosity and innocence to want to see more of what the Demon World has to offer.

[@kaidenjohnson2624]

No it wouldn't been better

[@VanBro339]

Cap

[@steelsolider95]

@@kaidenjohnson2624 whats it like to be a goofy 24/7? cringe lord

[@Netherwolf6100]

@@VanBro339 "Cap" means Lie or Lying. How am I lying about my opinion?

[@profbasara7712]

I could see the merits to this idea and it's interesting to think about, but ultimately I think it'd be even more problematic. Perhaps the people who wanted an adult cast would've been more accepting of it if it was Goten and Trunks, but they're also objectively far less popular than Goku and Vegeta for what I'd imagine are obvious reasons. I don't think the concept would do much to end up enticing more than the more dedicated DB fans to check it out.

[@Jenncysworld]

Once Daima finishes and I've seen all episodes, it isn't a show I would go back to and watch again. While OG Dragonball is a show I go back to over and over again without a doubt. Even with its "old" anime style, the story holds up and is fun to watch more than once. (Same with DBZ).

[@crashbandicoot884]

I don't think that the problem is the fact that the characters are infants, I think that the problem is the plot. There isn't a real feeling of danger, the characters aren't able to bring any kind of evolution (in terms of character development). The pacing is horrible and I really have the feeling that they try to hide this thing with some lore that we barely develop in the series. Just a minor detail but Goku isn't supposed to have the power pole if he is an adult. The only reason why he uses that is because he has a depth perception problem with his new siza (I'm sure that you know that but you forgot this detail in your illustration)

[@tiablue9106]

yeah, I saw someone else comment this but what they said was basically "goku & co. went on this demon realm adventure w/ 3 goals in mind: 1. wish themselves back to normal, 2. rescue dende, and 3. defeat gomah. yet I find myself forgetting why they're doing this stuff half the time" lol and I'm kinda inclined to agree. bc vegeta's been the only one to rly grumble abt being a child, the show makes such a small deal abt dende being kidnapped (and the audience has seen ahead of this point in time so we know he'll be fine), and not only is gomah at threat lvl 0 rn but he just doesn't do anything but sit in his lil angry dome. it got me imagining what if the whole point of the squad going to namek in Z was to defeat frieza, and they still didn't face him until the end of the arc--that's kinda what daima's plot feels like.

[@crashbandicoot884]

@tiablue9106 and that's why we have to focus a little more on the "why?" We have these 3 goals. We basically have a guy that saw everything, even a 7-8 year old gotenks Fighting super boo, wanting to go to his opps basement to turn them into kids, without thinking for a second that he could pay severely for this mistake. It was a huge risk and it was stupid. Of course the plot doesn't have to be serious but this is some new level of trying forcefully to have an adventure with kid Goku. We haven't seen the rest of the cast for 13 episodes so why this kid thing ??

[@tiablue9106]

@ yeah I remember in ep 9 when goku's group split from vegeta's group and he told them "you can go ahead and defeat that gomah guy if you want", I was like "oh that could be a good idea--have vegeta's group handle gomah while goku's group can maybe intersect w/ arinsu as she's getting the dragon balls and they all meet up later". but they didn't do that lol. and abt the others getting turned into kids ik a lot of ppl would consider them wastes of time, but tbh I think I'd enjoy cutaways to the rest of the guys who were turned into kids trying to get by, or even living it up like roshi. and as for gomah, well, my hope of this show making him an effective villain has slowly dwindled to near-nothing. we knew from the start he wasn't the strongest dude but shin and glorio for some reason said he was cunning and smart...as they're repeatedly showing us, he isn't at all. so I dunno. like u said, there's a sense of forcing things a lot in this show

[@takagalore]

You went into this anime wanting to see already developed characters like Goku develop while watching characters like Glorio, the Maajins, and Shin get that development and then completely ignoring their arcs? This is a fun adventure shonen written by AKIRA TORIYAMA meant to be his last work and to flesh out the universe of Dragon Ball, stop taking everything so serious and enjoy it.

[@crashbandicoot884]

​@@takagaloreI've said the opposite. This is an adventure with already developed characters so there is nothing to talk about. If the goal of the series was just to have fun, why introducing so much lore then ? Why creating new characters and antagonists ? Dragon ball is an already finished story with 42 volumes and Daima (super and GT) is proof of that. Funny how we blame super for the fights and loads of transformations just to turn your brain off and wait for the final fusion in Daima huh.

[@xedusk]

I feel like this could all be fixed with simple tweaks. Instead of assuming Goku is weak because he’s a kid, they could assume he’s weak because he’s not a demon. If tamagami is less threatening because the size difference with bigger Goku, then just make tamagami bigger as well. If adult Vegeta creates more negative space, then move the camera or have him do a final flash instead of a Galik gun. I like the idea of Daima being an anniversary for OG Dragon Ball, but that’s not really what it feels like. I would have much rather just Daima focus on the actual kid Goku (tail intact) and kid Krillin and others. Then it could felt like a genuine OG adventure. Turning the adult characters into kids just feels shoehorned and unnecessary.

[@xudex98]

100% agree with this

[@Jotenks]

i feel like just making tamagami 3 bigger would kinda undermine the fight because an adult goku would still look imposing and intimidating cause yk hes an adult, but a kid goku is rounder and stubbier so it feels more impressive when hes smoking a big foe

[@tiablue9106]

ikr? I think the idea of 'the size difference' is a bullcrap excuse to make them children when they can just make the demon realm enemies as big as they want. I get it's MORE of a difference when goku's a child but if they want the 'person vs giant' choreography it could've been done just as easily w/ adult goku.

[@xedusk]

@@Jotenks I get what you mean, but I still don’t think that’s necessary. We’ve already had multiple fights with Goku going up against a giant and the giant has almost always been intimidating. The only giant that wasn’t intimidating was Janemba and that’s because he was a giant yellow baby.

[@TheComicCrew]

You just made 1000% more sense that this whole 20 minute opinion mark came up with

[@Rough_Estimates]

It's funny seeing a large portion of super fans give flak to Daima. Now they know how Z fans felt with Super 😅

[@theindestructibleone483]

the difference is Super scaled everyone up with more power, Daima did the opposite besides giving vegeta a new transformation which he was WAY beyond by super

[@twaggytheatricks4960]

@@theindestructibleone483 I think it's important to consider that a lot of people do what you just did - judging a series by the amount of power the character can or can't have - rather than actually caring about the experience of it. To be clear I don't mean that as an attack or an insult, this is a legitimate thing I've noticed people do for more than just Dragon Ball. People who enjoyed the Goku VS Tamagami 3 fight don't really give a damn if Goku is a kid, an adult, an SSJ1, 2, Blue, Ultra Instinct, or 4. What they care about is the fight itself, how well it was choreographed, how it expertly uses the mechanics around said fight (Goku being a kid and leaping on Tamagami's hammer to surprise him, Tamagami using his hammer on the ground to throw speedy rocks at Goku for him to deflect with his staff, Goku being able to extend his staff while Tamagami can bring his weapon back to him like Thor's hammer, etc) to make it the most effective and entertaining battle possible. Voice acting, sound effect, music, battle location, sakuga moments, _these_ are the things people who enjoy this fight care about. The transformations are absolutely part of that, but just the forms by themselves aren't enough: they need to have their own vibes, their own uses, their own uniqueness that make them work within their respective setting - not to mention their own history. In my case for example, I can cite to you my favorite battles from OG Dragon Ball, then Z, GT, Super, fucking Heroes, and Daima; then tell you exactly why I like them. I would never tell you that my favorite fight in GT was better than one in Z because Goku was stronger or the story went farther in time, because quite honestly, I really, really don't experience battles that way. And neither do people like me.

[@Papolllo]

Super was great... If you disliked it then congrats your one in a million, Daima is 1 in 1000 ppl dislike it or have not heard of it

[@theindestructibleone483]

@@twaggytheatricks4960 sorry I can't read the whole thing right now as I'm busy, but I understand the point you made as I quickly ran over it, however they kinda failed to catch everyone's attention if that's the case no? If you're saying we're judging it from what we saw then they definitely failed at showing why we should care about it

[@SniperKing-O]

I felt like that with watching Super as a GT fan and wondering how anyone could endure watching the anime. The manga and movies were good, but alot of the anime was giving me a headache. Dropped it after what it did to Future Trunks. 😅

[@jstymie]

Daima is fun, and I don't have a problem with the cast being turned into children as a basic concept, but... they don't really do much with it, at least not consistently. Daima's biggest problem is that the writing is just bad, and I'm saying that as someone liking the show. There are tons of great moments in each episode, but the actual plot has been very weak and the show has a serious issue with consistency. I don't want Dragon Ball to be constantly obsessed with power levels, but you have to have a bit of consistency in the ability of characters in order to feel like you understand the stakes of any particular scene, and Daima has been terrible in this regard. It's so incomprehensible that the same characters that have been going SSJ2 / 3 and whooping ancient guardian characters that Dabura stood no chance against are now struggling to deal with regular no-power soldiers with pew-pew sticks. The idea that Goku and Vegeta just had to be saved by some regular people dropping grenades from a plane just feels so dumb. Daima feels like an erratic show that was written by 3 different main writers taking round-robin turns with the episodes, and all three of them had a different opinion of what the show should be about. I'll definitely finish the series because each episode tends to have a few fun moments worth watching, but it's hard to not feel like in the end it will have been a bad show with some great episodes.

[@BakiX]

100% agree.

[@edogawaconan945]

This series is pretty much a slop now. Even if we get 5 peak episode from back to back it wouldn't excuse the episode we went through to get there in this 20 episode anime.

[@buttssanchez6763]

I feel similarly about the writing. The number of times I stopped and said "okay, thanks for the exposition" was too much.

[@tiablue9106]

@ I can agree; like a lot of ppl, I feel like these last few eps have gotta be crazy good for me to rlly say I enjoyed daima as a whole. and I don't see that happening tbh. when it's over, I think my opinion will be the same as when it began: "it was fine". but I hope to be surprised

[@fightedmealready2692]

I mean all the people in the realm could have looked down on him for simply looking like an ordinary Human…..being a kid isn’t the only way to lower their expectations of how strong he is. Demons in general probably don’t respect humans strength and that honesty would have been enough

[@lucasayabe]

it would be lore accurate too since that realm was the original one

[@Ash_Wen-li]

Or not being able to use 'magic' and they could further differentiate between magic and ki. Actually give them problems they can't just brute force their way through

[@KyubiCloaks]

THIS!! This is exactly what I said as well. Theres multiple ways to achieve these effects them being kids isnt necessary

[@RebelTrooperHoth]

But then you run the issue of adult Goku by the end of the series being leagues stronger than Dabura, who is pretty explicitly the strongest of his realm outside of the Tamagamis.

[@OrRaino]

Yeah they are coping by making up excuses, Every situation you see can be changed slightly and it will still make sense for them to be adults.

[@taperhunter8671]

The issue with Daima is just that there’s just nothing particularly interesting about it. No tension, the new characters aren’t super interesting. The old characters don’t have much new to say or do. The show isn’t that funny. I could keep going but you get the point.

[@horyshet2419]

when dragon ball gives it's series a good budget and phenomenal animation it decides to turn the cast into children. and when the budget is non existant but the cast are adults like we want, it gives us early super animation. you just can't get that perfect dragon ball series it seems.

[@InfraredGod]

Animation is moreso dependent on time. Budget just determines how MANY people are on the show, not how good it’ll look.

[@johnnyflinn2662]

we did already it's called Z

[@horyshet2419]

@@johnnyflinn2662 Yep dbZ is peak no question. i was only talking about modern dragon ball since dbs began.

[@Anonymous20242]

That's one of the reasons why Z will never topped

[@blur7491]

Every week in and out, all of what we discuss is "is Daima struggling?" Call me crazy, but that probably means it is. That aside, while I understand your points regarding the advantages of him being a kid, I feel like we are dismissing the connections fan felt when seeing Goku grow up with them (or, in case of newer fans like myself, Gohan). Removing all that growth, not once, but twice (GT) feels degrading for lack of a better term

[@bender5271]

Excellent comment

[@KaiLoRei]

Goku being a kid in Dragon Ball GT doesn’t take away from him as an adult. His Super Saiyan 4 form shows us he’s still the same seasoned, powerful warrior we know, and it reminds us of everything he’s accomplished. Even as a kid, his personality, wisdom, and determination shine through, proving his character isn’t tied to his age. Instead of diminishing him, GT uses this to show how adaptable he is and reinforce why he’s such an iconic protector. Even though I have my problems with Daima for me it has nothing to do with Goku being a kid.

[@Hagane17]

Brain dead take. If everyone in the comments is watching, and not commenting on something they haven't watched, I'd argue that Daima is hitting exactly it's fans and isn't struggling.

[@whiten4635]

I understand what you mean but I feel them being kids does do as much damage to the connection as a lot of dragon ball fans think it does. What made these character growth so important was both the physical and mental aspect and Besides being turned to kids goku alongside the rest of the cast has remained mostly in character. Goku isn't nearly as naive as he was when he was a kid, vegeta maintain his a level of dignity he once had and piccolo isn't the corrupt reincarnation of demon king piccolo that he once was when he was younger. Daima is a show that still respects the arcs and series that came before while returning to the roots of what started dragon ball in the first place

[@KeDe1606]

Instead of forcing AI into every little bit of their website, maybe YT should instead implement a feature where you ACTUALLY HAVE TO WATCH THE VIDEO before you’re allowed to comment on it. You’re not saying anything new. Mark addresses this exact, incredibly half-baked criticism in this video. I know being needlessly negative about every little thing, hidden under a thin layer of wannabe-intellectualism, is the hot new trend right now, but this is getting ridiculous

[@SUPERUNDERBEAR]

Couldn't Tamagami #3 just have been a little bit bigger if Goku was an adult? I get that the size difference is what makes the fight so fun, but what would have been different if the Tamagami was just a bit bigger? 4:45

[@moeez_56]

@@SUPERUNDERBEAR the size doesn't matter. The main story here was about a random child taking on a legendary guardian. Everyone in the Demon realm doubted Goku until that point because he was only a small child. The town's celebration following Goku's victory, as well as the news of a spiky-haired kid defeating a Tamagami, all contribute to the fight's greatness, which will not work with adult Goku.

[@KyubiCloaks]

Yes. Its just cope to try and justify them being kids

[@KyubiCloaks]

​@@moeez_56 the demon realm could have stigma against the outside world thinking that they are weaklings and the same awe would be achieved.."an outsider could take on the guardian...woah"

[@HabitualThinker]

​@@KyubiCloaks it's cope to say them being kids is a problem,

[@JoeStinker-ip9mr]

I just don’t get why you would want to change it. It’s already good ad it is

[@ryke2903]

12:00 I would argue that Vegeta being a kid doesn’t make much of a difference than if he were an adult, because his size doesn’t change that much 😂

[@AbyssDefiantBlack]

If they wanted to have a child as the lead so bad, they should’ve just used Goten & Trunks. Fans have been begging for them to have spotlight for years only for them to take a far less favored route. Nobody wants to see all that progress from Super erased. It’s sad to see but I knew this series would fall short the moment I saw the trailer.

[@jessekarimoen9858]

I agree hard with u

[@reddboytv1332]

That would of made so much sense and have been the perfect opportunity to make goten be the main character and do everything goku is doing,while also getting character development. I really don’t see why they didn’t do that and make like gohan and piccolo a kid again along with goten and trunks.

[@ampecsu]

18:25 whoa dont say that bro...

[@imwitdamob2nd]

😂😂

[@momentoeurekaeura]

DB Daima fanboys do an enormous disservice for db quality since they accept any shit instead of asking for real quality and at least respect for the characters, all while companies make tons of money with their idiocy. Same with DBS.

[@doitwithproperstyle]

Super Fans: Toriyama didn't like GT! Meanwhile, Super and Daima: stealing things from GT.

[@ClaclaT]

I have the impression that only the American community loves Daima. Here in Europe and Asia the series is much criticized. Nothing happens and the ship breaks down every 10 minutes. It was not at all like when Goku was a child and we had real adventures. It would be nice to see more constructive criticism and not just to love the series because it has the name "Toriyama"

[@prototype217]

i agree the fact that the ship(s) are constantly breaking down causing shenanigans to ensue is just really poor writing

[@MakoShiruba]

The ship breaks twice in the Third Demon World and once in the Second. The difference here is that Goku is not fighting an actual threat from the getgo for the Dragon Balls. Gomah and DuuKuu aren't on the same pace as them, unlike Pilaf and the Red Ribbon Army, which forces the story to pace out threats elsewhere. Breaking the Ship forces the characters out of their safety net and allows them to feel vulnerable in some way. The first time the Ship breaks, they meet Panzy. The second time the ship breaks, they are attacked by Minotaur and the Gendarmerie. The third time the Ship breaks, they are in Mega Planet. And it's not like they can't even put the guys in trouble, too. They have a ship and still get Burglars stealing the Ball. What more can you even put in? Remember, these guys already are at their peak in power and when they give the Fodder Baddies some chance, we get the whole "Why couldn't get go SSJ and just destroy everyone?" In this case, I can give you one simple, concrete and sincere answer: Because that would make the show EXTREMELY boring and predictable. So, if breaking the ship, giving the Army Weapons that bypass Ki Numbers and making encounters Goku CAN'T just overpower them is the way the show has to go to do stuff with the characters, then, I rather have it this way than have a "story" where Goku just LowDiff'd everyone until the last 3 chapters.

[@theoverseer1775]

Idk what you're talking about because I'm in Europe and me and my friends are fucking LOVING this series

[@purplesky4157]

I’m American and hate the series but I agree I’ve seen many people defend it much is crazy. Like u can’t say nothing bad about it at all even if your criticism is constructive and fair. Like the ship has been a major plot point more than anything else lol. It’s ridiculous. The power scaling has also been as bad as super but at least super has the excuse of not having dragonball around for years. Diama has no excuse it’s a short series that is literally nothing but filler. Should’ve just made it a movie. I’m a huge db fan but I’m literally bored of watching thing this series which I never thought would happen. I was bored with gt and some episodes of super ( mostly cuz of the animation) but Daima besides like 2 episodes has literally been such a bore.

[@TheAsj97]

@@theoverseer1775 Wow, that's amazing, you're friends with the entire population of millions of European Dragon Ball fans?

[@Zero_Mortal_]

Feels like Vegeta gave tamagami 2, the Goku vs trunks treatment, he did the same thing Goku did to trunks while blocking his sword, I just realized that

[@thelargesmoke4791]

I mean if Goku remained an adult, they could have made the tamagamis bigger and then here ygo problem solved.

[@x3jamesjamjam672]

Exactly

[@edogawaconan945]

True. The only downside that he talk about that I agree is Vegeta galick gun pose. But the pose itself will be alright if Vegeta height didn't get retcon every single arc after Namek.

[@jacobcataloni]

Are you forgetting or intentionally ignoring the part where he talked about how it would change the show?

[@thelargesmoke4791]

@ I mean maybe it's some weird saiyan growth bs, u never know with these guys....

[@christophernixon2919]

Daima has been hard for me to watch. Plane crashes were a primary story telling plot point so many times! Also given the power scaling we know of the characters most of what we see is either trivial or total bull. You have to head canon so much away.

[@odstethan15]

ikr, Plane crashes and they completely forget about flying, even in the 2nd demon world. They have to fight against the Gendarmerie and they're like "There's too many we cant do this" when they're *still* in base form and could just go ssj1 or 2 and easily wipe them out. Its all just kinda stupid

[@ashen3405]

The plane crashed 3 times you guys are very dramatic with this ngl. Theres many other problems with daima to focus on. Crying about the ship is just childish

[@odstethan15]

@ashen3405 yeah, only in the 3rd demon world, not the 2nd or 1st.

[@thebarrelv232]

@@ashen3405 In a 20 episode anime 3 times is too much

[@edogawaconan945]

​@@ashen3405 ain't gonna take someone with Daima profile seriously

[@StxtchKiss]

Now that we’re nearing the end of the shows runtime I can unfortunately say Daima was a flop outside of battle centric episodes people weren’t tuned in at all. And the English dubbing finally releasing did not fix the problem it probably made it worse considering we’re 2 months into the show and for some odd reason it’s starting all the way from episode 1. Daima’s plot and pacing is obscene. For every 4 episode 1 is moving the plot forward that’s ridiculous. Every 5 minutes it’s a gag or the z-fighters being unable to defeat some guards after fighting a tamagami…? Trying to raise stakes but breaking the convention of power established got old and annoying really fast, especially after ep 15. It’s sad but it’s true, even if it’s Toriyama’s “last” work ppl are hooked to hype aura and battle adrenaline.

[@user-gk6nt5gi5n]

Daima is "Oh no our space ship broke for the 7th god time" the anime

[@christophernixon2919]

Couldn't agree more. I have to explain away so much, like the guards have magic guns. Or them being kids REALLY nerfed them. I was hoping the nerfs would have made them less reliant on ki and more on martial arts skill, which the first few episodes suggested. But once vegeta showed up and went ssj3 we got classic dbz style fights. But now we have a giant kraken that I guess is stronger than kid buu???

[@GAHAHAHH]

The pacing is breakneck what are you talking about? I was thinking wait they are fighting the Tamagami already? He beat the Tamagami first try? There was no training sequence, no rematch, no plan? I am personally fine with that and didn't need those things but to say the "pacing is obscene" and have that mean it is too slow? I just don't understand. I am constantly thinking "I want to know more about this" but they move on very quickly. There are many things that I thought was foreshadowing like when they mentioned that Planet Mega was the second most dangerous planet in the Demon Realm but it turns out it was just a joke. I knew that they would break through that barrier at some point but I didn't expect it to happen immediately after they needed to break it to move on. Also this is Dragon Ball we are talking about; slow pacing isn't just present, it is a feature. That is why people loved Dragon Ball, because no other show at the time had a continuous story go on for so long. Did you seriously watch Goku hang out with Gohan and think "hurry up and get to the cell games"? I hope you didn't. Even the jokes have purpose like when Krillin threw that rock at Goku and it hit despite being Super Saiyan, it was meant to be funny but it also showed that Goku truly had his guard down because he felt safe and relaxed.

[@purplesky4157]

Big facts. This all could’ve been much better with simple changes like them wishing for the z fighters to be kids but to also be weaker! Like way weaker. They just assumed they were gonna get nerfed cuz thier kids but vegeta literally turns ssj3 lol mind u hes never used this transformation which is 30 years old 😂. A second wish where it makes them revert back to like namek saga or android saga levels would’ve been way better but even then lasers and fodder soldiers holding them off is still inexcusable since vegeta was blowing up planets since he first appeared! Also them not having so many “filler” dumb episodes that don’t serve the plot at all. With such a short series every episode such be damn near important. Instead it’s the ship is down, the ship is stolen, the ship needs to be fixed etc….. it’s ridiculous. There’s 5 episodes left and I’m sure they’ll be at least an epic episode and people are going to call it peak after which is crazy cuz it’s a bad series, 2-4 good episodes of good fights and flashy animation can’t change that but for many people it will which scares me cuz if we continue to support this trash toei will never actually hire good writers and fans that live db to work on it and they’ll just keep realism mid

[@purplevincent4454]

​​@@christophernixon2919in either the most recent or episode before that they state their child body can't handle the attack of the guard after vegeta got hit by the gattling gun so yeah I'd say transforming them into kids heavily nerfed them. The whole premise revolves around them being kids but still strong enough to beat up stuff in the demon realm. Adult ssj3 goku is probably quite a bit stronger than kid ssj3 goku and vegeta (like grown man vs little kid). So idk why you'd say the kraken is stronger than kid buu.

[@bob101nano2]

It would have been way cooler if instead they made 2-3 episodes dedicated to specific characters when they were younger. Kid Goku up with Kami, Kid Vegeta taking over a planet, Kid Piccolo growing up after the death of King Piccolo, Tien/Yamach training, Chichi growing up before the tournament. Hell, it doesn't have to be about Dragon Ball, we can have episodes about Krillen marrying 18, Future Trunks growing up with the Androids, Gohan as a kid in the woods or as a scholar, Kid Trunks and Kid Goten growing up(probably just before the Super Hero movie), Broly growing up. All of this is way more nostalgic then just making them as kids and recreating similar moments/feels of Dragon Ball.

[@mechajay3358]

0:50 Fans didn't exactly take it for granted, that's on Toei for not promoting it all that well.

[@Randomaccount9470]

I guess but most of us only watched it cause it's dragonball related anyway

[@AllMightyGotenks]

Honestly what I don't like about Daima's approach with turning everyone into kids is how they literally made us think goku had actual problems with being a kid again, him being severely weak with him forgetting his abilities and losing his regular sense of distance, but then it just feels retconned once he actually makes it to the demon realm, and then Vegeta gets access to the strongest form at that point of time in the series, and in a 1st grader's body.

[@takagalore]

What? Goku has used the power pole in every fight he’s been in because his depth perception is messed up FROM being a kid.

[@tompayne3200]

Diama feels like a filler arc tbh.

[@jmanjulian]

daima feel like they wanted to give GT a second try nobody wants to see kid goku fight like adult goku(go super saiyan use advanced techniques and so on)

[@RadRaeDx]

Speaking as an outsider, ya know how the Xbox One was kneecapped forever forever after the used game fiasco for long after they reversed course? It's like that to me. Those reveal highlights you showed at the beginning of the video, are louder than all the praise. First impressions are so much to the masses. I'll watch this if it comes to toonami but otherwise idk. Also like. What this video sort of sounds like is like. You're talking about how spicy chicken breading wouldn't go well on beef and is much better on this masterfully crafted chicken Sandwich, and all I want is a hamburger. I'll enjoy a chicken sandwich maybe. But I was really looking forward to a hamburger announcement so now all this chicken sandwich reminds me of is how it's not a hamburger.

[@nightlydata2181]

But the point is the restaurant is havin it's 40th anni. that was built off this chicken sandwich that hasn't been a thing in YRS. So jus enjoy the chicken sandwich if u can & u'll get the hamburger later. It's not so much for u as it's for the restaurant itself & those who know of & appreciate its origins. Also those who R bein introduced to it for the 1st time to C if they become lifelong followers

[@mups4016]

​@@nightlydata2181here's the problem, this chicken sandwich is the last sandwich this restaurant has made. There wont be a hatmburger later.

[@RadRaeDx]

The up front premise of the video is about how initial backlash about the characters being kids was a factor that lead to poorer than expected performance, and if making them adults would fix it. But the following video describes how changing only that wouldn't really work that well. I compare this to putting spicy chicken breading on a hamburger patty, because of course that's not enough. It doesn't matter if it's an anniversary, or the best chicken sandwhich ever, if there's people out there that were looking forward to a hamburger, you can only appeal to them by changing the *whole thing* In regards to broad appeal, it's not that they're kids in *this story* it's that they're kids *at all* I'm glad people are getting enjoyment out of it. And I'm glad mark found a deeper appreciation for it by making this video. But the premise and the exploration here I find a bit flawed. It feels like it's saying "see, it's good that they're kids actually" to a crowd that doesn't want them to be kids for any reason outside a single episode gag maybe. Idk.

[@nightlydata2181]

@@mups4016 That's factually untrue. We're alr gettin a new manga after Daima ends & manga super will return too

[@nightlydata2181]

@@RadRaeDx I'd say that's more ur fault in misattributin the point of this discussion. The point of this vid is to get ppl to understand how Daima is built around the cast bein kids & how it wouldn't be the same without it in a way that would be detrimental. It's counterin a point made by the ppl who don't like that they're kids here lookin for a reason y they should've been adults to "justify" the hatred. Not counterin the hatred that the characters R kids itself at least not fully.

[@MrDestroyah-kf6ov]

I think daima would’ve been less criticised if it wasn’t just “goku and friends becoming kids, and they have to save dende and meet new friends in a new realm” it just seems like a plot for a Mario game and that sucks, I mean- at least we know why goku was regressed in super

[@edogawaconan945]

This also feel like a plot of JRPG that get adapted for anime adaptation lol

[@takagalore]

What other plot should it have? It’s an adventure shonen. A plot doesn’t “suck” because it vaguely sounds like a plot for something else. Not to mention the summary of the plot you’re using would make it sound like that in the first place- for example “Naruto and friends fight the akatsuki because they threaten to destroy the hidden leaf” or “Luffy and friends travel to laugh tale because luffy wants to be king of the pirates”

[@Randomaccount9470]

​@@takagaloreakatsuki all had their own individual reasons not just bad guy being evil Some to save the world, some for, revenge, some for purpose, some to control it for peace Daima is bad guys doing bad guy things Also Naruto and friends never got changed to kids for no reason

[@x3jamesjamjam672]

Mark im sorry but i think you just WANT to like it. You are way to smart to not consider the size difference could be the same if he was an adult and the tamagami was just..even bigger? Or if they considered humans weak, this has to be bias

[@Mari_Izu]

You're wrong, because Goku being a small child and no one in the town close by believing he would be THE GUY is an integral part too.

[@Anthony-qv8yu]

Yeah I completely agree, he does come off that way.

[@GAHAHAHH]

I am guessing you want to hate it? That is the only logical explanation to prefer one over the other, especially when it's the one we didn't get. I feel like I shouldn't have to explain why it's wrong to want to hate things; but I also feel I already know why you think it is wrong to want to like things, that reason being you assume "this has to be bias" which is hypocritical since bias is clearly strongly present within you. I mean just listen to yourself. He failed to mention ONE thing out of the infinite arguments for the OPPOSITION and you are accusing him of bias for that? What about all the scenes where you can't just make the other guy bigger like when Bulma and Vegeta are discussing about if they want to remain young? By your standards aren't you bias for not mentioning that? Also Piccolo? Did you forget about Piccolo? He throws a huge hole in the idea of "if they considered humans weak".

[@BakiX]

@@Mari_Izu This means absolutely nothing lol

[@house1406]

idk why some people want to defend this shit so bad, its absolutely terrible what is there to gain from defending the plane crashing show

[@KyubiCloaks]

I feel like mark is being a little disingenuous here to defend the decision. its fiction, you can write whatever you want so theres 100 ways to achieve the same effects without them being kids. For example in the goku fight vs tamagami fight the same sise difference could be achieved with adult goku by just..making the tamagami bigger than adult goku? They dont need to be kids for people to be suprised they are so strong, the demon realm could just have a preconceived notion that outsiders/humans are weak. When explaining good things about them being kids mark isnt considering the fact that them being kids is FAR from the only way to achieve those things

[@TyTy00]

Its crazy cause mark reads one piece and one piece plays with size CONSTANTLY without the mc having to be a kid

[@geniusplays8795]

YES. Perfectly said. Almost everything mark said I found myself saying "Well they could've just done this instead"

[@x3jamesjamjam672]

​@@geniusplays8795 he just wants to like it because multiple other solutions are so obvious

[@AgendaPirate]

Preach

[@RebelTrooperHoth]

My main defense of them being kids is the scaling would have been even more nonsensical. They wouldn’t have to try at all outside of the tamagami fights

[@godzillakingofthemonsters5812]

The bigger issue is less that they're kids and more that they're cutesy little chibis. We've seen kid Piccolo, Goku, Vegeta, Chichi, and more. Daima looks NOTHING like that. They look like hello kitty cameos. Kid Goku still had a presence that showed while he was small he was strong, Daima intentionally made the characters bobbleheaded like Family Guy babies for whatever reason and the artstyle doesn't help in this aspect being shiny giving it that sort of "baby" look. If they looked like OG Dragon Ball designs there'd likely be a LOT less pushback. It also likely has to do with GT's negative perception, and there are a good few similarities between the 2 series, so Daima was going to obviously get flack for being GT 2.

[@hiagustres]

I've been saying that too, they don't even look like their kid versions, they're just easier to draw chibi

[@KyubiCloaks]

Never thought about this but this is a FANTASTIC point

[@Mari_Izu]

Because they don't look like how Toriyama drew in the 80s, they look like how Toriyama drew them in recent years. His artstyle changed a LOT over the years.

[@godzillakingofthemonsters5812]

@@Mari_Izu That's part of the problem but also not correct. Toriyama's design art for Dragon Ball Super left a lot to be desired. The actual anime and manga look far better than these draft designs.

[@HabitualThinker]

they NEVER SAID THEY WERE TURNING INTO KIDS. the wish was to shrink them to the size of them

[@Ayub-Akane]

I personally think people get far too hung up on features that don't change anything to the story beyond choreography and understandable features in the story to give the antagonists more reason to underestimate and doubt the heroes. If they were adults, rather than have the antagonists underestimate them for being child sized, the antagonists would just be super strong and out of this world incomparably powerful and then people would complain about power creep. Them being smaller really doesn't change anything about the characters themselves. The narrative does shift to of course include the fact they are smaller, however, the main 3, that being Goku, Vegeta, and Piccolo, act the exact same as they would had they been full adult sized. Because of this I think we should focus more on the story in general and where the plot is headed instead of fixating on a part of the narrative that was probably born out of Toriyama's own creative liberties and calling the series "bad" or "mishandled". I highly doubt people would be nearly as pressed over Daima if Goku and co. were adult sized but the story remained the same and I think that's a bit silly for such an over the top series like Dragon Ball. The gang being mini isn't that big of an issue honestly

[@DMBLaan]

For me, the problem with Daima isn't the de-aging, it's that it's supposed to be considered canon to og Dragon Ball ans Super. I don't know if this is only a fan thing, or if it was Toriama and Toei's idea, but it makes things even more narratively complicated than it already was when Super started.

[@Oliver-fu1go]

How is it complicated? Between end of Z and start of Super they had another adventure, I don’t see how that confuses anything.

[@discoverarcane]

​​@@Oliver-fu1go I guess its more of a continuity thing with all the new information being added in (therefore "retconning" old stuff) and the cool random additions like SSJ3 Vegeta not making sense cause he rages out at Trunks in DBS for using it, and doesnt try it on Beerus. At the end of the day, nobody really cares but it's technically still an inconsistency

[@ClaclaT]

@@DMBLaan To tell you the truth we don't care. dbs has already made many moments of the original manga non-canon like its ending. we have to see dbs and daima as non-canon sequels.

[@DaysOfRequiem]

Vegeta's hair looks more like a Super Saiyan 2.5 not Super Saiyan 3.

[@matthewaddai5336]

Its using the original design for super saiyan 3, which didnt have the hair strands flowing/curving downward but had it spiky.

[@purpleey]

Bro looked like Gohan Beast 😂

[@NeoZero369]

So Trunks Rage?

[@thevipez8740]

3:48 This point doesn't make any sense. There should be zero reason for Glorio to underestimate Goku considering Goku is the one who defeated Majin buu who the entire demon world is terrified off, he literally watched Goku do it in the first episode as he was spying on Gomah. He should have no reason to doubt Gokus strength so the scene doesn't need to be there in the first place or just be reworked into Glorio wanting to test Goku if he really is that strong regardless of size

[@Mr.Autodelete]

You arent supposed to like daima until the next series comes out. Just like super. Just like GT.

[@IncognitoActivado]

GT has a pretty good ending actually.

[@ashen3405]

While I get your point, daima is vastly different in the amount of hate it gets. Dbs was still getting people hype and breaking the internet So it’s probably more than just people hating to hate

[@epik1_.1]

Bingo. When the next series drops, all of a sudden ppl will love Daima.

[@Mr.Autodelete]

@@IncognitoActivado it has an excellent ending

[@Mr.Autodelete]

@@ashen3405 dbs and Daima have gotten equal hate in my eyes. I remember lots about how "gt was better" initially and oh boy who could forget the constant screeching about the animation. Ultimately I truly believe Daima isn't fully shining yet and won't until it's last episode. It's a short series and Akira was a master at his craft with insane experience. This is where I go full fanboy, but I am certain once Daima gets it's ending it will be very well received and the show will boost in popularity.

[@emiwisp9277]

I'm of the opinion that as a fan of original DB era stuff and feeling more daunted by the newer material, Daima has been an amazing breath of fresh air. It's nice to have a series where Toriyama was clearly enjoying the project and the rest of the creative cast were just as excited. To me at least, Dragon Ball is at its best when that kind of passion is around. I was initially confused and taken aback by the deaging, but as I saw more and more I realized it was really an enjoyable ser up to revisit some of my favorite setups and ideas the series ever had. Its a nice letter and perfect send off to the man who penned our little monkey boy. Miss you Toriyama.

[@TropicaIJay]

Gotta say ever since goku vs Tamagami, daima has kinda been meh... Also goku and vegeta acting like they can't handle a bunch of fodder with guns is just so corny lol.

[@themangastand8475]

The saiba buu are the only interesting things. I thought the shopping man is funny. Those like three episodes building those buss up and ss3 Vegeta mixed in where like the only 3 episodes I would even call average. The rest have been bad. All I have to say is that fucking spaceship better be down for good this time. Oh no our spaceship is destroyed or damaged has been done 20 times, with no consequence

[@pie5556]

@@themangastand8475 We spent so much time in the third demon world for straight up no reason. The second demon world seemed interesting as hell but we were in and out almost instantly. This should have been either a 10 episode series or 40 episode series. Instead they made the first 10 episodes really slow paced and are now speeding through the final 10. The saddest and most upsetting thing about this whole story is just how much potential it has that is being squandered. What was the point in having three demon worlds if we don't get to explore them all equally.

[@teteu3925]

Actually i have the opposite issue, i think the show doesn't have any stakes cuz none of the enemies are strong enough to give the z fighters trouble, surely the final fights will be tough but as of now the only fight that wasn't super easy was the vegeta vs tamagami 2 fight

[@Crazylegs677]

Yeah, an entire episode spent struggling and they didnt even try to go super saiyan till backup arrived? what?

[@WeizeBaby]

Goku is having trouble with some bunch of dudes with laser guns. When he has had way bigger threats than these punks. Cell, frieza, kid buu. It's ridiculous

[@stephanos6128]

so are we just gonna forget that 1) adult goku has fought giant characters as an adult in both manga and anime and the size difference has been emphasized 2) vegeta had done gallick gun as an adult in his debut wnd there were no compositing issues to speak of? 3) compositing issues in DB is a modern DB problem 4) we have PLENTY of small kid characters to explore that stuff, be nice to see them 5) for an anniversary series about the og series and themes we sure aren't seeing a lot of *co* in that "Goku and Co." statement, i dont remember Pansy and Glorio being there in the og series. Yamcha, Puar , Chichi, Ox King, Bulma, Oolong and Roshi were the crew that's been here since the absolute beginning, yet I've seen nothing with them no exploring of them as characters or fighters and 2 of them have been underestimated as fighters for YEARS. (infact why make ALL OF THEM kids if they don't explore the themes with these characters?) honestly good art all of ya but this video sounds like a myriad of excuses imo for a lot of story issues and design choices. daima could've been an unrelated spinoff movie if it needed to be a celebration THAT badly.

[@mathieul4303]

You forgot Krillin

[@Jam-og1km]

I think another factor that may have brought down Daima was that it was a midquel after Buu but before end of Z, basically just super again from a premise perspective.

[@tiablue9106]

I agree, if it took place after super hero as some ppl had guessed, more fans would be interested. would feel like less of a 'detour'

[@alexanderrobins7497]

@@tiablue9106 Nah. I had zero interest in Super since they rehashed two movies for the anime, had a terrible art style, and just keep ramping up the power scaling and stakes to a ridiculous extent. I see it refreshing to see not every enemy can destroy a galaxy without trying, and not every fight requires them turning into a Super Sayian (____) to win.

[@joshuagarrett9171]

​@alexanderrobins7497 i had a similar opinion on Super but i just watched it and it's fantastic

[@Kylenetic64]

While I'm more than willing to accept the fact they're kids because Toriyama just wanted them to be kids, and that's what we got. I can't help but feel that you'd get the same effect of what Mark is saying about their size showcasing a lot during conflict, as being just as possible by making all the characters they meet and fight even bigger too. If Goku and Vegeta were made into "weaker" teenagers/young adults, you can make the visual change of them looking a lot younger and less muscular, while having their proportions similar as their adult forms. And having the other characters they meet still be far bigger than them, towering above, still underestimating them, giving the same sense of scale while giving yourself the freedom to use far more dynamic choreography and poses that comes with having them stay "adult" sized (the very reason Toriyama aged up Goku in the first place).

[@westy1637]

I admit I dropped Daima. The pacing was pretty terrible. I was quite sick of their ship constantly breaking down and I was DEFINITELY sick of hearing Goku screaming any time he trips, falls, is attacked, runs away, etc, etc. He might be in a kid form but he's still an adult, and I don't recall adult Goku screaming as often or as long as he does in this show.

[@momentoeurekaeura]

Both DBS and DB daima don't give a fuck about real fans and continue to disrespect its own characters, story and universe

[@Codysmokeshash]

0:18 Danny?!?!

[@adrianmarion4625]

who?!?!

[@FloWoodEnT123]

@@adrianmarion4625Danny Motta. A KZbinr/content creator that Mark added dialogue from at this timestamp. @Codysmokeshash I came to the comments for the same reason lmao

[@thcbenji42069]

Recognized his voice immediately 😂

[@Adamatronamus]

Meh. GT only has one kid, and its probably just as good. I'll just watch that.

[@tiablue9106]

ppl are gonna disagree but I rlly think that--SO FAR--gt handled the de-aging concept better than daima has. at least that led to goku getting his tail back, and nerfed his instant transmission and ssj3 some. daima could pull some crazy stuff in its last few episodes but rn this is how I feel

[@edogawaconan945]

Disagree with ssj3 thing since that form definitely need more love than loosing to the same guy twice but agree with others.

[@afanwithtoomuchtime4375]

Love you Mark, but...the kid thing isn't compelling, and without anything else to Balance it out, no awesome villain, no new forms we haven't seen before, and it being a prequel...its just not driving it up my packed watch list. Maybe if this had been a prequel that showed the gap between Dragonball and Dragonball Z, I'd be more into the kid aesthetic. But as it is, its just giving me boring GT flash backs.

[@Quil63]

This show just proves that Dragon Ball Z fans truly aren't Dragon Ball Fans. The story has interesting and charming new characters and none of them feel wasted or useless. People complained for years about sidelining characters or Vegeta never getting dubs, and this show hands them an entire cast that contribute (generally, Panzy, Neva, Glorio, Shin and Vegeta all provide progress to the narrative or genuine comedy, some making key saves despite never being fight capable), Vegeta getting to absolutely destroy an entity legendary in the Demon Realm and SSJ3. New forms don't make good content. It drives down the value of older forms which has been a complaint since SSJ2 was around for literally two fights before being eclipsed by the one that never won til now and God was top for literally A movie. Having a new form all the time completely undermines Dragon Ball's narrative of self-growth through discipline, play, and hard work, another problem Z created. Super was a prequel too but if you enjoyed that one the complaint then also loses its genuine nature as well. GT also gave you new forms, new villains with incredible set ups but lacking pay offs, and were never anything but continuations, yet you call it boring. You ask for things you previously did not enjoy in another variant of the show. Honestly, the kid thing isn't really enough to draw in old audiences, but the show seems to be testing a new voice cast for Japan all things considered, and is more interested in making new audiences as well as expanding on things Toriyama always wanted to. If the man's last and final work, one he put in all the lore he wanted to, one made with his comedy, his voice, his vision, doesn't appeal to you, it's time to find a new series. This show is probably a lot of what OG DB fans wanted, a mix between fighting action and ridiculous comedy commentary, and that's all it wants to be.

[@afanwithtoomuchtime4375]

@Quil63 Man, that is a massive wall of text, and you start off by using me to generalize an entire population of millions of fans, so I'm not going to assume the rest of your speil is much better. Look man, Dragon Ball was nice...when I was a tiny child. I'm not that anymore, I have preferences. Watch King Carrot or whatever his name was being left in the moon to make marshmallow candy for all the children of earth until Roshi blows him up was mildly funny, but in my opinion, Dragon Ball didn't have much substances until it became about something more distinct. Fighting the RR, the various martial arts tournaments, King Piccolo's killing spree, these are the things I came to watch, and bit by bit, all of that evolved into the more refined product of Dragon Ball Z. And you know what? Between you and me, I like Dragonball's animation style and technique 10000000% more than the smooth shiny aesthetic of Dima. My opinions man, chill.

[@Quil63]

I don't mean anything of what I say as an attack on you necessarily, and I apologize if it sounds that way. TFS makes the joke that fans of DBZ "never seen Dragon ball who dis" and I've never met another Dragon Ball fan IRL who watched the actual original show. To act like a significant chunk of the DB fanbase don't just care about and adore Z and maybe Super and complains pretty openly about anything resembling the OG is just... not right? Like, so many people act like Z is the only thing Toriyama made worth celebrating and it just is not. And Daima is going to be the same kind of experience for a new generation hopefully and we can get new blood into this franchise who want more than transformations and fighting because at some point Super turning into an action figure gallery got old. Who actually enjoys the entire TOP? Like every episode, every character? I'm not into constant action for the sake of action anymore. I don't fault you for not enjoying it as much as others, that's fine. It's just important to consider other perspectives when forming your opinions so they have weight or meaning for others. I can't understand precisely why people like Super with the bevy of flaws that show has, but I do still listen to why people enjoy it. Some people have wanted Dragon Ball content like this for years and even dislike Z for what, despite making DB a worldwide phenomenon, set it down a path they've grown to hate more and more over the years.

[@afanwithtoomuchtime4375]

@Quil63 Im not even not enjoying it. I'm not watching it. And I'm not watching it because it's sitting near the back of a massive list. I don't think I would dislike it, I liked Dragonball FAR better than Super, and I liked the later half of GT, and of course I like Z and the Super Movies since brawly. But I've got Dandadan, Demon Slayer, Solo Leveling, and 11 others behind those to watch and catch up on. I'll probably catch Daima eventually, but if Toei wants me to drop what I'm doing and watch Daima, they need to do better than kid Goku goes to the shadow realm. It's just not compelling in its marketing, in my opinion, and I cannot spend all day watching anime. Choices have to be made, priorities set. And Daima is low priority at the moment. I literally don't watch super anymore, it's not a match to Z, not even close, and the treatment of the characters in that show is borderline criminal. Ill at least watch Daima eventually, but if it's not a movie, Super is only good if you cope.

[@gladionlunix5547]

​@@Quil63 ei facts, daima is going pretty good and fun for me especially after i finished db classic some days ago

[@FlashQuestReloaded]

When I first heard about Daima, I groaned, thinking we'd get a "Toryiama version" of GT. Which would have been interesting if nothing else had happened. And while I've had some gripes (mostly pacing), I've enjoyed the show overall and felt that it has certain things that Super never had. The characters feel like "Dragonball," and the jokes mostly (except the plane) land. Overall, the characters are consistent with what they were and are not 'dumbed' down for a joke or plot. Overall, I greatly enjoy this series and hope that if/when Super does come back, they keep this kind of animation, or at least the overall feel, while also doing the manga justice. Dragonball has been a staple of my life since I was about 6 (whenever the Ocean dub debuted on Toonami), and it will always support new content to this fascinating world we all love.

[@geomancer91]

Here is my problem with Daima. There has hardly been any story or plot development. Making them smaller was a callback, sure, but one we didn't want or need. We haven't spent time with the original crew. It is basically more Goku, per usual, except they gave us new characters who ultimately don't add a lot to the story. It looks great, but I am not super into this one.

[@Dan55888]

GT makes Goku a child - Lame. Daima makes the whole cast children - "Oh it's the best thing ever"

[@RebelTrooperHoth]

I think the main difference is Daima is just a side story while GT was meant to be the ending of the series.

[@Randomaccount9470]

​@@RebelTrooperHothit's the way he defends this and talked bad about the exact same thing in his gt video Exact same concept of height, under estimation, adventure, og DB call backs etc It's disingenuous

[@IamMeHere2See]

As someone who was bored to quitting DragonBall Super, Daima was the most engaged I’d been with the series since my early days with DragonBall Z. I’m fine with the cast aged down, but it needs to be rectified before episode 18 or 20 at the latest. I know there are only 22-23 episodes planned, but so long as the climax is good, I’ll be satisfied. Looking forward to when the Straw Hat crew gets the same de-aging treatment in 12 years!

[@tiablue9106]

daima's been confirmed to be 20 episodes

[@lesterwilliamsjr649]

A better wish would be that everyone loses there memories and then the characters would have to get revenge while relearning all there abilities.

[@MegaDarkdragon5]

Like many American viewers, I was introduced to Dragon Ball through Z. While my memory is absolute garbage, I clearly remember my introduction to dragon ball. Watching TV and randomly catching the Goku and Piccolo vs Raditz fight. I had no idea what was going on, I just saw buff dudes fighting, stuff moving fast, colorful energy blasts, and explosions. What more could a child want? So of course I kept watching whenever I was able to. I couldn't always catch the episodes when they aired, but when they did, I didn't miss a second of it. I even played the video games when they came out, though it was mainly the budokai games. And as many of us know, eventually Dragon Ball came to the west, and naturally I was like "Dragon Ball Z prequel?! Sign me up!" (I didn't know Z was a sequel and Dragon Ball was the original at the time). You would think the wildly different tone Dragon Ball has compared to Z would have put me off, but it didn't. It actually made me love the series even more seeing the wacky adventures of Goku and his friends, and it's only now when we're so close to Diama's ending that I understand why. Dragon Ball gave us mysticism and wonder, an unforgettable adventure in a new, fantastical world unlike the boring and even sometimes scary world we live in. Z gave us heart pumping action and insane story and character development, but this came at the cost of the more mystical adventure elements of the show. GT was a hollow shell of a series that didn't understand what made Dragon Ball so great, and while Super was definitely a step up from that, it was still lacking for a multitude of reasons. This brings me to Daima. I, like many, was skeptical when this was announced, as I immediately began to fear we were getting GT 2.0 with these aged down characters. But hearing Toriyama was behind the helm directly, and having just come off of Broly and Super Hero which I thought were both great, my original intent was to wait on Daima until it was complete, see the fan reactions, then binge watch the entire series if it was good. When Toriyama passed away, I was saddened as he was one of my biggest influences on my life and is part of the reason I now pursue a path as a writer (I can't draw to save my life, but God do I wish I could). When I saw so many wonderful and talented people making tributes for Akira Toriyama, something I was incapable of doing, I made a decision to watch Daima as it released alongside most of the fanbase. As his final series, I felt like I owed this man who indirectly helped shape my childhood a fair chance, and so I decided I would go into Diama on release day with an open mind, but I would do so with caution regardless. Whether it was good or bad, I would give Daima its fair chance. And now, 15 episodes later (I'm watching on Netflix so I'm an episode behind everyone else), I can honestly say, without any shred of hesitation, that Diama did not disappoint. As you pointed out, there are times where the show might have benefitted if the characters were adults instead, but this feels like a series where Toriyama has taken everything he has learned over the years and put it into one astonishingly amazing package. The adventure through the Demon Realm with wacky hijinks and Z era grade fighting choreography and absolutely stunning artwork make Daima, to me at least, an amazing adventure that I know I will come back and rewatch once the dub is done, and it's a story that makes me hopeful for the future of this franchise. Maybe we can finally get a proper adventure with Adult Goku and the gang instead of "hey lets go here and beat up this guy" like most modern Dragon Ball stories feel like.

[@trainershade1937]

4:16 Agreed! I adored how well this fight personified Goku's character, from beginning to end. While it wasn't brought up in the video, I found it amusing how Goku didn't care that he passed the combat test for the Dragon Ball, and wanted to keep fighting Tamagami 3 knowing he hadn't shown his full power yet. Pivoting to a different topic, I will say that another aspect worth noting about the topic of character scale, is that a non-mini Goku would tower over most of Daima's cast. It would make it rather awkward throwing him into a lot of the non-combat scenes and I also feel like a lot of the more minor conflicts simply wouldn't have happened if Goku wasn't shrunk. The really fun bar fight early on for example, likely wouldn't have happened, and it would have been a lot less fun choreography if it did. So far I've been loving Daima week to week, and the concerns I had for the de-aging decision have for the most part been dismissed. However I will say that the most recent episode (15) did upset me a bit. It's the first episode so far that really made me question the cast's strength, which took me out of the experience. Even if we only acknowledge Daima itself, it doesn't feel like the characters should have been struggling as much as they were.

[@lsixty30]

You're making a lot of great observations that help to appreciate this story and its execution. But to say the choreography of the Tamigami fight REQUIRES Goku to be tiny... What about just making the Tamiami bigger? Same thing with Glorio, if you made his character buffer and bigger than adult Goku then his underestimation of Goku still works.

[@lsixty30]

All the re-draws were excellent!

[@lsixty30]

You're right to emphasize this is a 40th anniversary celebration.

[@APRobertsVII]

@TotallyNotMark I don’t really think the child vs. adult issue is the primary problem with the series. Honestly, what is the theme of this arc? Which character has demonstrated any meaningful growth? The show has no emotional or personal stakes, no theme, and no compelling characters. How does Daima compare to Goku discovering his heritage in early Z; or Vegeta learning to become a better man, husband, and father; or Gohan abandoning reluctantly abandoning his pacifism and accepting the responsibility for the fate of the world? Super had a lot of problems with this, too, but Daima has cranked these problems up to a whole new level. I like your review series because you always seem to hone in on theme and authorial intent. I hope you’ll do the same thing with Daima.

[@mups4016]

This show is literally fan service, it just doesn't have the boobs normally asspciated with the term.

[@KathyXie]

Modern dragon ball is like simpsons, a show that exist because they need to sell toys and merch and millions of people still ocasionally watch or read it, but the characters never growth outside of new transformations and they constantly forget past growth and lessons.

[@ZeeBlueShork]

Daima isnt about our characters it's about the new characters learning from the characters after they had there finished arcs after the buu saga

[@APRobertsVII]

@ Except it’s absolutely not. Glorio and Panzy have been near mute for several episodes now. They are essentially flat characters with no growth at this point. Neither has had a character arc. And their struggles have rarely been in focus. Glorio’s struggles never have and Panzy’s problems went out the door the minute Supreme Kai casually ripped her collar off. Daima isn’t about anything right now, and that’s a critical problem for any narrative.

[@tiablue9106]

I agree I think the character development and such has been lacking as well. I get our franchise regulars aren't gonna get much development but for like glorio and panzy I expected more by now. (EDIT: rly disappointed the angle from panzy's intro w/ her being this rebel princess who'll break rules to free demons from tyranny was totally dropped afterward, same w/ her undeveloped powers) also ig it would've been cliche but I thought arinsu would start out heartless but then grow attached to her majins and become better or smth. show's not over, stuff could still happen, but we only have 5 eps left so idk

[@janneeirinstrand7499]

I do think I prefered GT Kid Goku's design. He was more muscular compared to the original Kid Goku, and kinda reflected the fact he was an adult transformed into the child, not just removing every trace of the decades that has passed.

[@moeez_56]

Daima is a short series that exists to celebrate 40 years of Dragonball and Toriyama himself, following that sad news. It was the fans that needed to shift their perspective slightly for this show. Its fine to criticize certain aspects of the show, but I do not understand those who question its very existence. I cannot speak for others, but I do not see Daima working with the adult selves. It loses its charm and that nostalgic feel needed for an anniversary project.

[@travissmith6380]

I totally get what you are saying but lets not pretend like the ONLY way to celebrate 40 yrs of DB and Toriyama was to de-age all the characters. I feel like there was another way.

[@G1sandG1rlsGaming]

The numbers don't lie. The adventuring portions of Dragon Ball are the weakest in viewership no matter which series of dragon ball it is. You can make the argument that it's a celebration, but that doesn't make it good by default. Super is majority action but it isn't good by default either.

[@moeez_56]

@@travissmith6380 the sad thing is people would have complained about it too. Fans used to call Moro and Granolah arcs trash, but now they desperately want them animated. I believe their opinions on Daima will also change over time. We fans do not approve of Toriyama's direction and also do not know what we want from the franchise. Its a real tragedy.

[@travissmith6380]

@moeez_56 i obviously can't speak for all the fans, but for myself and more than a few others I know wanted some form of continuing the story, whether that be with Gohan or Trunks... or f k it, even Pan...just move the story forward. Making Goku a kid again was so tiresome and old, it felt like been there done that

[@hellzpawn1751]

@@travissmith6380 is Toriyama's creation he can do whatever he likes and pleases, who are you to say "there is another way" lmao. go and read his last interviews when he clearly says that this "mini-series" is a celebration and a collection of what he was so proud, adventure, gags, and JRPGs, problem y'all clowns and most all content creators watching a kid show, thinking on power levels and plot -holes each chapter, just open y'all mind and let the story sink in, it is not DB in its prime, neither is DBZ more dark tone but surely is better than all super and GT hands down and the animation is S tier. Also, I think ppl from the US is not as fond with original Dragon Ball as other countries, so the nostalgia factor is not kicking in.

[@pipmeyer3889]

Real talk, the issue with child Goku is the scale and tension. When the core plot requires the protagonists to be the ultimate victor, especially when it's a side-story where we already know the characters are alive and well afterward, in order to accomplish the desired effect (of a David vs Goliath moment), you must choose which one gets made large or which one gets made small. Whoever is chosen to be made larger naturally gains the benefit of seeming stronger and more intimidating, like a giant. Whoever is chosen to be made smaller only seems weaker, an effect that is also ruined by the fact that we know how incredibly powerful Super Saiyan is. Choosing to shrink Goku only conveys one thing: Goku is artificially made to seem weaker, rather than the opponents being made to seem stronger. This is what shreds the David vs Goliath effect - we already know that Goku and Vegeta are stronger than anyone Daima throws at them. Ergo, there's no tension. An example of this would be if you took post-Namek Super Saiyan Goku, who defeated Freeza with relative ease, and had him be legitimately challenged by Krillin. It doesn't matter how much you boost Krillin, because what is conveyed is that Freeza and Super Saiyan must not have been as strong as we thought. And therefore, it loses its luster. Perhaps this issue is really only exacerbated by the fact that the very first episode showed that amazing recap of the Buu Saga. It contrasts the sheer intensity of the battles from the final arc of Dragon Ball Z... with a far more "regressed" adventure intended to pop 'Member Berries over OG Dragon Ball. Daima seeming to fall flat is inevitable with such a creative decision.

[@Yonkage-ik5qb]

The biggest problem with Daima IMO (and I felt it quite a bit with Super too) is that it's just too childish. It has that same level of low-stakes peril as (most) American cartoons intended for a preteen audience, where it's slightly dramatic and dangerous, but it just never _feels_ like a real threat. There's no real danger. You know the characters are going to be okay, and nobody ever gets seriously hurt or dies. Yes, Dragonball is a shounen, but even way back in the early days it wasn't like this. It wasn't so *weak* with the threats and the violence and real danger. General Blue might have been a camp weirdo, but he was still a threat. Tao Pai Pai straight up dropped Goku with the Dodonpa, only saved by the deus ex machina of the dragonball in his shirt. Let's not even get started with King Piccolo and his children and what they did. It didn't matter that Goku was a kid, because he was still going up against extremely dangerous enemies that could have killed him and often did kill his friends. It was a fun silly adventure, but there was still real danger lurking around every corner. At several times in every single arc, the distance between the heroes and the villains looked so vast that it seemed impossible that they could *ever* win, because the villains were so threatening, so dangerous, so powerful. The Ginyu Force were a silly troupe parodying Super Sentai, but they were also *scary as hell* when the actual fight happened, when the chips were down. In Super and Daima you basically never feel that. The enemies are all dumbed down, cartoony, weak; they're all silly with zero substance. Literally the only thing that saved the Tournament of Power was Frieza coming back because unlike _literally everyone else,_ he was allowed to be his old self: an insanely dangerous, violent threat to everyone around him. Contrast Jiren, who was powerful for... literally no reason... but his total lack of personality, the fact he just sat around doing nothing until the very end, and boring stupid backstory never made him feel truly threatening. Or compare Mr. Boo who was a fat pink idiot, but also an unstoppable juggernaut that just beat the hell out of everyone; with the Majin characters we have in Daima are. I keep waiting for these silly characters to reveal that behind their goofiness is a real scary monster that will start cutting through the heroes like a hot knife through butter, like would have happened in old Dragonball. But I'm sure it'll never happen. How the hell am I supposed to take Goma seriously as the threat that he's been hyped up to be from the very first episode, when _he's done absolutely nothing to back that up!_ He's just a screeching idiot that barks orders, like Frieza but completely without the real malice and visceral strength. It's a violation of the cardinal rule of storytelling: show, don't tell. I'm still having fun watching Daima. It's still Dragonball. But I'm constantly feeling belittled and bored, and honestly a bit awkward because it's so childish and weak. Like what am I doing watching this no-stakes cartoonish anime when there's no payoff? This isn't how Dragonball used to be, and that's not just the nostalgia talking.

[@sonodv1709]

The Pilaf arc and 21st Tournament also have no stakes Daima is not "Dragon Ball Z" but again, like GT and Super were, it's not just milking the same dragon ball formula for money like DragonBall has been for years. If it feels different to u that's because it is. That's the whole point. It's a different style of Dragon Ball. I don't understand fans who just want the same thing over and over again in slightly worse quality each time until the heat death of the universe. I want DragonBall to evolve and change. Literally, everyone agrees that Super was a downgrade to Z. It had to good moments, but for the most part, it was mediocre is the general consensus on the show. And people want more? More mediocrity as long as it's just the same formula over and over again, it doesn't matter how bad or lazy or unoriginal or uninspired or tired it gets, just the same thing over and over, bigger power levels, bigger transformations, beige hair, orange hair, gray hair, brown hair, until every color is exhausted and they've drained every possible cent from the IP they can and it's left a withered husk. No thanks man, personally not what I want to happen. I love Daima specifically because it is a departure from what the series is mostly known for, I hope they continue to take DB in new directions or at least put it out of it's misery before it becomes indistinguishable from an AI generated version of itself.

[@Yous0147]

@@sonodv1709 Agree to disagree. If you read / watch dragonball and dbz they feel much more natural and immersive in their story telling. Things make sense and have meaning and impact behind them that makes you think about the implications. GT had a horrid plot and story, but the world still felt more real, the premise was at least somewhat bound to the dragonball ethos and way of doing things and the art was unmistakeably dragonball. Super and Daima, in my opinion, fall flat in this regard, to me they don't carry the DNA of dragonball the same way, instead they end up feeling more like other shows and barely touch upon the core principles that dragonball has always been about, which is a good and true heart that applies itself will always find a way to succeed, that's basically Goku. Daima specifically feels like any isekai anime to me, both in art style and story, the only thing tying it to dragonball are the characters and often even they feel detached from their core self. You could've easily made a show that's different from both db and dbz and still hold on to the fabric that makes them what they are.

[@spooderdude5949]

I love the idea of Akira not liking GT and making it his last mission to release a version of it he'd be happy with, when you think about it, it really fits with who he was as a person because man literally came back for two reasons to do Battle of God's and Ressurection F, 1. Dragon Ball Evolution was so bad Akira couldn't let it sit so he made BOG, 2. Akira loved a song made to reference Frieza and tie his malice to the world we live in, Akira has always been the living sence of "oh?, bet I can do it better" (Edit): I guess we also need to bring up the fact that this is before Super, just after Buu's defeat in Z so it's not like they're doing damage by locking away forms like SSJ Blue or Ultra Instinct, as a matter of fact, I wager this is probably going to be a very good form of training for them throughout Daima, they have to master forms in young bodies that never felt that much power at that age, and let's be honest if this retcons GT into oblivion I feel most fans would be happy with that as they'd no longer need to worry about how Super and GT match up with the end of Z arc.

[@LilT2o00]

Makes no sense; nobody could defeat the tomogamis ever; but last episode the regular army with their lazers and tanks could take out the people who beat the tomogamis? make it make sense; Never thought I'd see goku/geets/Piccolo need to be saved by some randos (yes panzy's dad is a rando in the grand scheme of things)

[@WolfXGamerful]

Okay but we’ve seen that there exists a metal that can ignore the stuns of those blasters. And once the cast knocked them away, the guards were powerless. Why *wouldn’t* the Tamagamis be invincible to those blasters? Especially when it’s shown that Neva, the one who made the Tamagamis, knew how powerful they were? It’s not that much of a mental exercise to do.

[@pie5556]

Not even the Super Dragon Balls have the power to make this story make sense

[@pie5556]

@@WolfXGamerful Defending Buu arc level characters being pressed by level 1 enemies is insane bro

[@fan.of.nintendo]

It didn't take them out? It just exhausted them, but it's not like they suffered fatal damage. The point of the scene is that there was so many soldiers that they were simply overwhelmed. They would've exhausted themselves by the time they finished off the enemy, and they still think they're going to fight Tamagami 1, so they had to conserve energy. Also, where was the complaints when Goku was knocked out after he touched the barrier? Can't you say that the blasters have similar technology?

[@dracoblizzard7944]

@@fan.of.nintendo That's the problem with the awful powerscale of Dragon Ball, no matter how much fodder you put in front of a galaxy busting character, it doesn't matter. Unless the blasters are powerful enough to destroy entire solar systems, they shouldn't be able to harm the cast. They should just be able to stand there and wait for the enemy to run out of ammunition as they receive no damage. If you think the problem isn't with Daima, then you have to blame the rest Dragon Ball for starting this horrible powerscale. Otherwise, you have to blame Daima for not adhering to that powerscale.

[@AceTheBatHound99]

If they change the animation style AGAIN next Series/Movie, I will be a little peeved. From "OG", to "Z", to "Yo", to "Super", to "Broly", to "Superhero", to "Daima". The characters core designs haven't really changed a ton but I really wish they would just settle on a specific visual Identity. I know its hard because of staff, & Time, & Money but seriously man 😒 *Pick a style, stick with it & stop pretending that's not possible* ... Daima is great, reminds me of DBS: Broly in terms of animation. *Don't fix what isn't broken*

[@lesterwilliamsjr649]

This video makes me of the fact Luffy throughout so much of One Piece looks so skinny and now I think I understand why. It also teaches a good lesson which is big muscles don't always hit the hardest.

[@blehnameless8096]

The Vegeta SS3 galick gun would work just fine as an adult if the shot used heavy foreshortening instead of it being flat. Then you could still have his head as the key part of the shot and his body loosely filling out the rest of the frame. And with the Tamogami 3 fight you could have the exact same choreography if they just made the Tamogami bigger.

[@UltimateBurstLP]

commenting this after only watching the intro of the video to get my two cents out there: i simply adore seeing the cast as kids to be honest, kid goku is adorable and it's been super fun seeing characters like vegeta and piccolo as kids since we never saw that before. to me it adds to the sense of wonder and adventure that is so clearly the primary intention in this series, it's apparent in everything it does early on, and stuff like goku, glorio, panzy and shin exploring the third demon world would not have worked nearly as well imo if goku was an adult for it. it obviously intends to harken back to the early days of OG dragon ball and stuff like the pilaf arc, but it also just works best to have the lower-stakes adventure story to have goku walking around in a state that is at least visually a bit more vulnerable. sure, even with the limited weaknesses of his child body goku is basically never in any real danger in this setting, but having him this young at least creates the visual impression that he's smaller and weaker and helps the narrative stakes work. my biggest concern in turning the cast into kids was that it would impact the action in a negative way, and after the tamagami 3 fight in episode 8 those fears were totally put to rest. we still get to see plenty of great action and we even get the creativity on these sequences ramped up a bit with all the neat uses of the power pole, and we haven't been starved for seeing transformations like super saiyan buster out fairly often, even getting a new transformation with SSJ3 vegeta. obviously the series isn't perfect and i can't deny it isn't popular compared to other dragon ball projects, but i've really enjoyed it and i think the creative choice to reset the cast into kids has actually helped that for my experience

[@TheVallin]

We saw Kid Piccolo in OG DB. He was short and fat. Also, he wore the Devil Gi of his Father, King Piccolo. We saw at least snippets of Kid Vegita in DBZ durring the Namek ark. He was thin and sickly looking spoiled pampered Brat. Much of Diama is retreading and reinventing things that already occured in DB and DBZ. Not saying there's anything wrong with that, just stating we have in fact seen these things before.

[@tompayne3200]

For me, I'm just tired of goku being a kid, especially since it's the third time.

[@HanmaHeiro]

The only problem I have with Daima is that there's no stakes or sense of peril. The entire crew is on a sight seeing trip in the demon world. Dende's well being is yada yada'ed away

[@rileyrose5166]

Agreed, the villains have been a joke the entire time, and the cast (despite de-aging) are so much higher than everything so far. Even the Tamagami weren’t that much of a roadblock. But then in the most recent episode random army dudes are a threat that no one turns blonde for.

[@HanmaHeiro]

@@rileyrose5166 Right. What's also crazy is Goku having the time of his life against the megath giants not going super saiyan when there are threats and even falling down it's clothes and into the bag like he couldn't just fly. It's fine if he's just having fun but Bulma and Panzy were in danger. I give it a lot of leeway in that it's just an adventure but dang it's hard seeing this carelessness.

[@fgvcosmic6752]

The issue is that any tension in a fight comes from them _intentionally fighting in base form_ Any fight that can be beaten in base can be _wiped_ in ssj. The _only_ fight so far that had any stakes at all was Tamagami 2. Every other fight was essentially meaningless, as cool as the choreography is.

[@HanmaHeiro]

@fgvcosmic6752 I wouldn't say tamagami 3 was useless. You was respectful and met T3s honor. I had believed it was to show the difference between the Z fighters and the majins Kuu and Duu. But Duu wasn't disrespectful enough to Tamagami 1. But yes, every other conflict is essentially played for laughs

[@HanmaHeiro]

@fgvcosmic6752 and totally agree about the fighting in base form. The majority of the time, they've started that way then increase in power as they need to. DBS: Broly is a great example of this. But it's not ok outside of combat when Goku expresses a threat as real. Like with the Kraken and with the Mega Dog about to get to Bulma & Panzy

[@KonariVibez]

6:00 I love how you're using Trev's Goku as a reference! (At least, it looks like Trev's Goku, but correct me if I'm wrong pls) It goes to show how much he matches the style and how much you respect & admire his craft. Good stuff Mark

[@BoomingInfernape]

Addressing the actual problems with Daima? No. Advertising redraws of Twitter artists and a sponsored product? Yes.

[@RuneKing324]

These Mark videos are always my fav! I love the big documentaries too but having these scenes redone like this is always such a treat to watch. So many talented folks in your circle.

[@bluetone-amv]

Mark being the biggest Daima glazer when he knows he's defeated. Fans hate this show.

[@sirnetflix7162]

To be honest, most DB content creatora glaze this show ONLY because Toriyama passed. That’s always the defense with these people. “But it was Toriyama’s last work and it’s a celebration of-“. Stop right there. I don’t care and I still don’t like it. It’s been extremely mid for me.

[@AnimeLuffyFan]

@@sirnetflix7162That very rude to say ur not a fan of Dragon Ball

[@edogawaconan945]

​@@sirnetflix7162 I honestly felt like Toriyama passing is the only reason this show get tge viewership it even had right now. If not the viewership will be way lower than currently

[@Randomaccount9470]

​@@AnimeLuffyFanhe's right don't gaslight us to like crap Toei should do better Guilt is not enough for a good story

[@AnnoRG]

I'm looking forward to see what you guys think of the final episodes. It's gonna be crazy.

[@ViroVeteruscy]

I think the biggest factor is that Daima seems like a parody version of GT. Goku gets turned into a child, Glorio is basically a stand in for Trunks, they have to fight enemies with Dragon Balls on their bodies like the Black Star Dragons. It's mainly that it feels like we already saw this with the series, but lackluster. Not entirely bad, but not as hyped, from my point of view. Could change towards the end, but atm it just feels like an unnecessary arc.

[@ultimateshadeofwar]

I will be honest, i grew up with both Goku's in my country we had a TV Show where we would watch an episode of OG Dragon Ball and later on an episode of Z. For me both Goku's are Goku... But i would be lying if i didn't say that it was refreshing to see Kid Goku again, and him acting like well, Goku. Because honestly, very few times through the Super era of Dragon Ball Goku felt like Goku. Here, not only it feels like silly as Kid Goku used to be, he also has the carefree nature of it, and a bit of the maturity he gain through the years, not enough to unbalance him being a kid, but enough to be clear that, it's not just him acting silly, it's him just re-enjoying being young again and seeing what new limits he could reach if he re-train through all of the years it would take him to get back to his original age. It's also funny seeing him realize that in some instances that time for fun is over, needs to get serious and something he didn't through out of being a kid comes back to bite him back (Like when he needed to stay awake to protect the dragon ball, but his young body requires more sleep so he tried hard to stay awake but he couldn't).

[@papermario2006]

I personally dislike having them turned into children as a plot device, but that's not my main problem. It's that this show's pacing feels so off. The kid-transformation has lasted for 15 episodes of the full 20 episode run so far and half the time feels like it was spent fixing fucking planes and dicking around on unrelated planets. There's so much meandering that serves no purpose. The conflict around Dende's abduction and the de-aging felt like an inciting incident that should've been resolved like halfway throught the series so the REAL plot can start, but it's still going and it doesn't feel like we've gotten anywhere yet.

[@dansmith1661]

I love that this is canon, but when GT did this, it isn't.

[@Janemba212]

Preach. I don't know what the point of this series is. We've already seen the "hero gets turned into a kid" trope. Plus the villains are a group of morons

[@y_s4021]

I'm not watching Daima as a proper sequel for Dragon Ball Z, but more as a spin-off and continuation of Toriyama's artistic vision. It's at least a more successful version of the first arc of GT and an exploration of the DB universe. It makes me want to come back each week.

[@hiagustres]

I would like the series more without then transforming into kids, feels redundant. The realms could all have atmosphere that nerfs non-demons, so Piccolo could be the strongest while they're there, also the enemies could have tricky (hax) abilities aka magic to make the fights more difficult. Also as someone else pointed out just make everyone in the demon realms bigger to have that overcoming effect

[@tiablue9106]

ikr? it's magic, they can do whatever they want--esp w/ magic being treated so flippantly in this series--but ppl keep acting like the writers' hands are tied and they HAD to make them kids for the story. (edit: same sentiment w/ the powerscaling, they could make the demon realm foes as strong or weak as they want, so the protags being nerfed via de-aging wasn't "necessary" either) I don't even hate the idea as much as some but they had a million other, more interesting ways to go

[@Oliver-fu1go]

Ok but also you’ll have more fun if you just watch and enjoy for what it is rather than trying to imagine an alternative show you wanted.

[@michaelbeard4883]

my 6 year old son absolutely loves daima and he’s watched all of z super and almost all of original in the last 2 months he can’t read fast enough for subtitles but still watches the english and subbed versions every friday

[@tengoodquestions]

Dragonball need to be like Sonic in regard to how they are fan focussed yet still taking the lead in terms of where to take the franchise

[@nightlydata2181]

That's a HORRIBLE idea. Sonic partly sucks so much cus they listen to the fans TOO much

[@tengoodquestions]

@ i agree that’s why i said “whilst still taking the lead”. It feels like Noriyoku (I’m sure i butchered the name) knows what the fans want, but still presents it in anyway that’s not influenced by them too much. In addition, Toyotaro spending 10+ years under Toriyamas tutelage hopefully means that we can expect good things to come.

[@nightlydata2181]

@@tengoodquestions I c ur point but then comparin it to how sonic is handled is still a horrendous way to explain it cus again sonic partly sucks due to poor management on the front end & lettin the fans always dictate. It also would go more against wut DB is cus the series frequently goes out of its way to do things ppl don't want it to or do things ppl want it to but in a way they don't want it to. It'd be better to jus do wut they want as long as it's DB & not someone's overly edgy fanfiction/headcanon of it. I think u mean Akio Iyoku

[@ravenrelic1219]

This is why Dragonball shouldn't be handled by fans who think they can write better.

[@robymessina1998]

Just Imagine how badass It would have been if Vegeta went Ssj3 as an Adult...

[@aribyeasirahmedzim8644]

Who knows ,they might show that in the last episode

[@KonEl17]

But you'd never get that in Super cuz there no reason to use it.

[@fightedmealready2692]

Would have been infinitely more hype and interesting

[@thunderblade1995]

Was it not badass when he did it when he was a child? Honestly, Dragon Ball is just badass in general.

[@sirnetflix7162]

@@KonEl17But now there’s a plot hole, because why wouldn’t Vegeta use it against Beerus in BoG? Obviously we know the ACTUAL reason, but in lore, there is ZERO reason for him not to.

[@shmikex]

Looking back at the early episodes (I'm watching the dub now), I feel like it makes no sense to have ALL the adults get turned into children. They would have gotten away with it being just the Namekians and Saiyan be the wish. I guess they had to make Bulma a child somehow too, though Pansy was doing fine in that role.

[@bardokadonk_1202]

No since dragonball fans hate anything with fun and whismy, and everything has to be "cool and edgy" with tons of fighting and flashing colors for them to be interested.

[@fan.of.nintendo]

Which is crazy because the last few episodes had nonstop fighting and they're STILL complaining 😂

[@bardokadonk_1202]

@@fan.of.nintendo its so funny cause i remember back in the day where everyone hated the continued Super manga for being so slow but now everyone wants moro and glorio....db fans really just dont know what they want lol.

[@popeval6654]

this is a true statement but i fear for your life for saying it

[@selmanigamer5261]

@@bardokadonk_1202you know what they say, people are hypocrites

[@bardokadonk_1202]

@ "Let them come, there is one fan yet in the DB Fandom who still loves Goofy Adventures"

[@sunsetgames2622]

TLDR: Them being adults wouldn’t work because the series would be over in 5 or less episodes lol. You want demon realm magic to be impactful? Make it so it suppresses Ki heavily and they have to rely on their martial arts and physical attributes. Young adult Goku did this masterfully. You want tension? Make it so the atmosphere of the demon realm is slowly killing others not native to it so they are now on a time clock. You want Super Saiyan 3 Vegeta to stand out more? Make it so the sheer power drainage of it in an already inhospitable environment would make it shine like a dying star. A single flash of insane energy only to disappear moments later, but would leave a lasting impact like Gogeta first introduced against Janemba. Overall, the series is painfully average to me and even then I’m being generous. Only plus side is shoving Sean to the sidelines like the man baby he is lmao all hail Stephanie.

[@ogsimo2170]

If goku was adult goku wouldn't have the power pole so the fights would be different in daima too

[@drakemandrake609]

i dont hate the "them becoming children" plot, I hate the children = chibi. Plus, Piccolo and Buu should not be small. Piccolo was an "adult" at 3 years old. If Shenron is going to pick and choose rules, he would definitely be doing that for his former "creator" too if you want to argue Piccolo growing the first time is not normal. Buu is a magical being that, as shown by diama itself, doesnt really have a concept of "child". On that note, Gohan (still unseen) is an adult at series beginning (both based on years from birth and physical aging due to time chamber) and should be a child if they ever show him (also the excuse that he has to catch up on studying is dumb and doesnt really work). Dende becoming a baby is also questionable, but plausible I suppose. He is at least within a couple of years of Gohan.

[@timedragon5492]

While the whole "People underestimate Goku because he's a small kid" is a pretty fun dynamic for a few episodes, it's a punchline that can easily become repeatable. And it really doesn't work for characters like Vegeta, Piccollo, or even Bulma. A good compromise would easily be just having Goku be the only one to turn young GT style. Or heck, maybe even just make Goten the hero of this series. It would give his character something to do. And have the adults like Vegeta and Picollo be there to still advetise to the older audiences of Dragon Ball.