Modern osu! Mapping, and why it Sucks

[@DeviousHands]

the thing is, the ranked section in 2016 did feel stale and formulaic, it was comfortable pattern after comfortable pattern and keeping up with new maps felt like going through the same sludge over and over again. we've had time to phase through those maps now and only play the best of the best these days, so 2016 feels better - we're playing some of the highest highs of comfortable gameplay. 2023, by comparison, feels like it's going to be remembered as an awkward response to thess past "comfort metas", and generally dated over time as mapping shifts back to things people actually want to play, and the highs will be much lower by comparison or mappers will just cannibalize the ranked section until we get nothing but untimed ar0 schizoposting. either or

[@l.c.431]

I think something people don't realize from both side of this argument is that big mapping eras like these create a backlog of maps that will be able to be played long after the era is done. as someone who started playing in 2015 I see why so many mappers are averse to fitting into the comfortable, safe umbrella because that's pretty much all we had back then. because of that I can't bring myself to hate any particular year because in my mind there's no reason why a certain style existing in ranked since I believe there's value in 99.5% of maps that enter ranked even if only a fringe part of the playerbase can play it. that said, I think the ideal state of a ranked section is one where no particular style is discriminated against (which is is for higher star comfortable maps rn).

[@Chr1stColomb]

I need 2010-2013 mapping back in my life

[@careless2429]

​@@Chr1stColombyou would enjoy -ady maps, lots of his maps are unranked but they're just what you're looking for. Modern mapper that maps old style

[@rematyar]

@@careless2429 thank you bro i love you

[@holo673]

honestly i dont particularly like 1-2 jump maps, but I'm not exactly gonna be affected in any way if they get ranked. and of course i'll say what i've been saying since the beginning of this drama -- if it's rankable, then why doesn't it get ranked? if it's soulless or uninspired, so? just don't play the map then. osu isn't going to die because there's some maps that the majority of the playerbase, high leveled and beginner players alike, could play, while also having some maps that are more experimental and artistic that only a fraction of the playerbase can actually play. both have a place in osu and it's annoying seeing people so pressed about maps that they wouldn't play just because ??? they don't like them??

[@kingpotato3359]

Thank you

[@DJruslan4ic]

"If it's not fun, then why bother?" - Some wise old man

[@critters-ly9tk]

1-2 jumps a la prime sotarks shouldn't be rankable because they're designed solely to abuse the pp system.

[@holo673]

@@critters-ly9tk but they still fall under the "rankable" category. and besides, the pp meta has already switched off of 1-2 tv size farm maps, they give practically nothing nowadays

[@critters-ly9tk]

​@@holo673 I don't believe that something being rankable means it should be ranked. its good when BNs use discretion and choose maps that are high quality as opposed to simply meeting the broad ranking criteria. bloating it with insepid garbage promotes less appreciation for the what mapping can really achieve. additionally, your point that "only a fraction of the userbase" can play non slop maps represents a total loser mindset. please expand your horizons and challenge yourself. But yes I agree that 1-2 maps aren't meta right now. my point still stands for lengthbonus/ flowaim/ tappingcontrol farm.

[@anonymoustaco8959]

I just don’t see why jump and tech maps can’t be ranked and coexist The whole point of the ranked system is to filter maps for players, and if one skill set is being favoured, the ranking system fails because it isn’t producing maps that adheres to who it’s meant for The whole ranked system should appeal to all types of players as long as the map itself isn’t mistimed incomplete unplayable etc, if it favours one skill set whether it’s jump in 2016 or tech in 2023 it neglects portions of the player base and the ranked system shld aim to appeal to as many players as possible, to protect the health of the game

[@bafritts9595]

Don’t disrespect my Dariacore like that 😤

[@Nekathe]

hell yeah

[@ohneko6193]

My opinion as a mapper myself is that it's just waayyyyyyyyyyyy too hard to rank ANY map nowadays unless it "stands out" with some insanely "unique" pattern that the BNs have never seen before. So if anyone who isn't a renowned mapper tries to rank anything that isn't like what I said, the map just simply gets ignored by BNs. I'm sure it's probably them just trying to make sure of the quality of the map, but I feel like it's just a bit too much.

[@qrzone8167]

I agree, like I made a simple TV size beatmap that had 1/3 and 1/4 rhythms and still could not get a single BN to look at it, and the map had accumulated the necessary hype and 2k plays without needing to advertise in multi. All while I was basically begging BNs to look at the map, which is now graveyarded because I do not have time to grovel at the feet of BN's who wont even give me feedback.

[@ohneko6193]

Exactly man 😭

[@chococya]

imo there needs to be more bns it's impossible to get their attention

[@cultureddoggo5606]

that part where you said there isn't much maps above 6.5* is SO FUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCKKKKKIIIIIIIINNGGGGGGG TRUE. I had to literally ask my 4 digit friends and just people i know who plays on that star range to actually get any semblance of getting decent maps on that range. i was genuinely feeling like i kept playing the same maps over and over and over again and it is driving me crazy, i like the maps i have right now but there's just really a line where you start to skip them cause you got tired of playing that single map and it wasn't the first time it happened to me. i have a growing list of maps that i used to play cause they were cool until i got so tired of them that i just stop to listen to music then bugger off.

[@warguy6474]

there are... theyre just too hard for you lol most of them are pretty hard stream maps that arent farm

[@luxerayy]

@@warguy6474??????? the whole video is about aim maps why would you bring up stream maps

[@xystumlol]

i need more 7 star maps

[@warguy6474]

@babyhalo698 They didn't specify aim

[@splittypoo]

Why's everyone typing paragraphs

[@shaws120]

I think more unique maps are good, its just that we also need those comfy high star farmy maps as well. Maybe im just biased cuz im a nm1 player but I think a little bit of balance is good. Graveyard maps will do for now but it's really hard finding nm1 maps that aren't just pure cancer. If only there's a way mappers can classify their maps like jump consistency, speed stamina, etc.

[@uwuowo3828]

we need 2012-2015 maps. they were the most fun

[@Ardieeh]

the only real and based opinion

[@Ugetora]

Ong

[@waldaw.3465]

I would add 2011 as well, but yeah, those maps are top tier fun gameplay

[@livinghuman2085]

no they re boring

[@tomatocat]

Im fairly new to the game (rank 470k ~130h playtime) and I love older maps so much more (2012-2015) I don't have a particular beef with other eras of mapping but the 2023 era really just gets me down on finding new maps I geniunely like dariacore but literally all the maps are shit and unplayable. I get song representation, but there really could be like one set that just doesn't go overboard.

[@ruruchi_]

Played for 7 years, completely agreed with the 6.5*+ maps, sometimes I just want to play aim, or comfortable patterns and despite loving 7*+ tech maps to death, it just feels boring and purpose-less to have those kind of patterns in 5-6* maps. It makes the map hard, not the song, and that's the issue, you don't get rewarded for being able to complete a song. In any rhythm game, there is that "oh shit it's a [camellia/t+pazolite/demetori/any artist that makes banger songs] song! It's going to be so hard!", then you play, then it's super hard and you grind your ass off to get that pass/FC depending on your skill level, and in 2023? Vocaloid maps have patterns as hard as those do, just slower and lower AR. It's not bad that some of those maps are gimmicky but not all of them, and for that reason, most 5* maps that are released becomes un-DTable if you're not Maliszewski, Woey, Shige or Mathi.

[@hawesomedelasauce]

Dariacore catching strays 😭😭

[@MousewingID]

You're right, I tried downloading a map of songs that I like, but when I tried it, the map was very difficult to play, and I felt like I didn't want to play anymore. Visually, the modern map is good but not everyone can play it, jump / farm map is not good map but many people like it because farm map is like aiming practice, simple, and you can play with different mods like hidden, double time, hard rock, flastlight. Man, I want to go back to the old days.

[@Cattyxdd]

I do enjoy learning tech maps and awkward/uncomfortable aim but I also enjoy big jumpy aim maps, which (the ones I play) are mostly unranked or sometimes loved. If BNs, ranking criteria or whatever would allow every style of map to be ranked (including 7-10 star jump maps), most people would be pleased I think. If the pp system is at fault here, I guess it needs another iteration

[@Exarvi]

You cannot rank something that's impossible to FC. But if it's unique that's what Loved category stands for.

[@Spandelier]

First thing. Absolutely loved the video. Your energy and editing style is fresh and I enjoyed the entire thing. Lemme start off with I'm a former 3 digit(1,083) and specialize in everything except for speed, dt, and excessive tech. This issue is alot more... Nuanced than what is being portrayed here. And it's really hard to encompas such a large player base with people who are of all sorts of skill ranges, without falling into generalizations. I'm most likely speaking as a "top player" of sorts, but i was also that dt 1 trick jump player who couldn't even do a 5note burst of 180 for the first 3 years of play lmao. Looking back at my play back then, i wasn't capable of going outside of my comfortzone because "map is too hard" or "map just isn't fun." And i really only focused on the pp side of things and watching the silly number rise. And really, I'm noticing that trend all over through all sorts of players. The reason the playcount for maps isn't that high as the "golden era" as you put it is due to 2 things really. Also I'm going to say the word "you" alot, but this isnt meant to point at anyone in particular, this is more of a general basis message to the entire community. I dont want anyone thinking im attacking anyone lol. 1. The "golden era" maps are piss easy, and never change. They're not unique and they're "soulless" as you put it. You do not miss those maps getting ranked all the time because they were "fun." No one genuinely believes sotarks to be a peak mapper and if you do theres something very wrong with your taste. You miss those maps because they were easy, and all you can play. You're not willing to go outside of your comfortzone and expand your skillset. and 2. These newer maps getting ranked are quite hard. Going from an era of jump maps galore to what amounts to "tech and alt" as you put it is a really good step in the right direction. This is forcing players to actually step outside their skillsets and challenging them with very beginner level alt and tech and consistency. All of the maps you showed in this video are not hard(except for the 7* maps and that mariacore stuff). Just straight up if you put 2 weeks into learning a little bit of alt or improving your reading you could probably get extremely close to fcing those alt maps or even some tech maps. Now those two points, they are full of generalizations yes, but theres a reason for it. I'm not saying every low rank player is a jump one trick. I'm also not saying you do not try other maps. What I am saying is that for the absolute majority of players, no one is willing to actually try the harder stuff. Jumps are easy. Streams are easy. But really, everything is easy if you put enough time into that skill. Once you're willing to step outside your comfortzone and actually learn to play the game and not worship what you've already mastered, you will genuinly start to enjoy the game more than you do now. And my final point. These new maps are kinda just, really bad tbh. I'm a guy who loves sliders and alt and tech, but these are just overboard. I can clearly see and sympathize with both sides of this, but hating on the bns or nats because they want to change what gets ranked because they don't want more jumps maps to be ranked, is kinda absurd. They are being far more strict with their ranking criteria, and that is a very, very good thing. It is a step in the right direction for new players, and for existing players. Not all players will want to be tournament players. Not all players will want to be all rounded players who can play absolutely everything. And that is perfectly okay. At the end of the day, this is a game, and you're free to play however you want to play. But one thing you shouldn't do is speak on a topic that you're not knowledgeable about. If you are unwilling to step outside of jump maps or you want to continue playing in your own comfortzone, then speaking on what should and shouldnt be ranked, isnt a conversation you should be having. Because your entire osu knowledge has been through the most basic of basic stuff. And we don't need to have a conversation about that. We need to have a conversation on how to modernize mapping in the correct way that benefits all players. I really liked what Sotarks said actually. He believes that both of these forms of maps should co-exist in one way or another. But finding that balance is something us the community/playerbase, or the bns and nats have yet to figure out. Stop flaming them for trying to figure out a balance to this entire fiasco. Thanks for reading. I'm willing to talk more about this if any of you would like to.

[@chlortal]

speak it louder brother!!

[@seraph1007]

bro be writing essays in youtube comment

[@haruruhaha]

Factss

[@MrKutlik]

critical thinking has entered the chat

[@nukefalador8891]

"hating on the bns or nats because they want to change what gets ranked because they don't want more jumps maps to be ranked, is kinda absurd." I agree that they should not be harassed/'hated on', BUT... Vetoing a map without discussion? If that wasn't sotarks, we'd have never heard about it. If anything is absurd, THAT is absurd. Showing more scrutiny != showing blatant (PERSONAL) biases. Nobody is asking that the maps currently getting ranked stop getting ranked in favor of jumps. It's obvious that is a bad solution. Yet, that's how jump maps have been handled. There is room for them to co-exist, but not with holier-than-thou/elitist mindsets in bn/nat. We should not just smile and wave, give a big thumbs up, because "they want to change what gets ranked because they don't want more jumps maps to be ranked". We also want to change what gets ranked, because we want more jump maps to be ranked, except we are not the dictator with a gun. for clarity, when I say we, I mean myself and others:tm:, not necessarily you and I.

[@squidgrill]

i love tech maps as much as the next guy but i still really love the more chill, straightforward maps, which (as someone who has been playing since 2015) i think were definitely more common back then. Andrea is one of my favorite mappers right now because they still make maps like that

[@icanwalcc3190]

Andrea my beloved

[@HakureiReimu225]

I want NatsumeRin back. And Skystar.. And Star Stream.

[@Exarvi]

Skystar era was golden

[@laskerflesto4078]

I think by the time you get to farming nomod union, sunglow, tsukinami, wizard's tower, dear brave, black rover, ghost rule, kimi no bouken etc, you should just take it as the wake-up call that you unnaturally pushed your NM aim too ahead of any other skill, and to progress you'll have to learn and practice something else (it can even be DT aim... but you'll have to learn higher bpm and AR at least) because there won't be pure aim maps nomod past that point. Personally (as a nomod aim abuser) the fact that I need new skills to get ranks or play higher sr is helping me finding motivation to learn other stuff

[@yep3584]

why would i be forced to learn a skill i dont enjoy so i can play the current shit mapping meta

[@laskerflesto4078]

because there isn't ever gonna be new low bpm pure jump maps of higher star rating than what was mapped to break the 1k pp barrier in 2019, so if you wanna get to harder maps you'll have to diversify your skillset

[@Coppertine_]

Idk.. i feel this take is a bit weird.. calling the overly repidive and over satuated sotarks maps (pre 2020) "golden age" is understating how progression of understanding is made. Back then, players and mappers HATED the styles that are being experimented around today (ala, Eghze, Alien) and now we have wafer, aika, shini braxen, and various other mappers realising "oh wait these "messy" mapstyles actually play well and reflect the song well" and started to experiment with whats possible in relation to how its played and the song itself.

[@Coppertine_]

One extra thing.. why tf are people complaining about sr and PP? It's unrelated even for today standards

[@SaowAngel]

I mean i've seen the "golden age" term being use a lot by people maybe the majority of the community agrees with it, but I don't.

[@piimre_osu9046]

yea, im getting close to 4 digit and almost every farmable map has an awkward burst/stream section, it helped me improve a bit though

[@leegoduwu4626]

As a mapper and a 5 digits aim map DT farmer, I personally believe people were complaining them just because overweighted maps exists in the "golden age" and it's less likely to rank them nowadays, instead all other different type of maps are starting to pop off and those style is more developed compared to old times. You said in the video AR 8 and weird tech is a skill that is not popular in the game, but there are many players that do enjoy them, so it's benefiting more types of players by having more types of mappers. A lot of mappers now cares a lot more about "visuals" and "song representation" more than gameplay, you may say it's a bad thing from player's perspective, but it really is just how people sees map differently, since some people think mapping is more of an art rather than something only to be played easily. So rather than complaining how current mapping scene is ranking "weird" maps, we should say that it's because maps are not being categorized well. Imagine if you enjoy aim maps, and there is a button that can filter out all those simple aim maps for you, I think people would less likely to complain about them.

[@DeviousHands]

the universe if we had a tag system like steam does for maps (unfortunately mappers will never allow players to sully their art with additional tags)

[@SaowAngel]

a tagging system for maps would be nice

[@DaHuy]

we already have a tags system but no one bothers to put the skillset of their maps in it, they only write the genre and artist for engagement

[@Koenig_Michi]

​@@DaHuy Im pretty sure the tagging system is meant to credit the source which the media came from (as well as making it easier for people to find songs of that media), not to create engagement, I've sometimes found my way to games through the tags leading back to the background material for example. I think your just misinterpreting what the tag system is actually meant for (at least how its used by most mappers for a long time). I might be wrong though! I mean it isn't written as a rule anywhere, but that's how I've always seen it, so that's just my personal opinion on the tags

[@leegoduwu4626]

@@DaHuy yeah and that's the problem, RC doesn't consider map style to be a part of tags, only things related to the song and credits are required to be in the tags

[@scuffy-osu727]

I can't lie I'm actually in love with the new mapping styles. I really appreciate and quite enjoy playing maps with high amounts of representation through mapping. It feels like every time I play a new map its actually a new map, not just some boring half assed basic rhythm that is the same as every other map. Don't get me wrong we do need that sort of map bcus they ARE fun and they ARE good but I feel like were getting into the golden age of mapping, super weird,, crazy yet well thought out and beautiful in their own regard. also slight nit pick, daria core is a good genre of music, might not be ur taste but at the end of the day its still music, thats like classing noise as not a genre or music, when it just is, even if it doesnt fall into our regular norms of what music is. same can be applied to the new mapping style too

[@maxdragonsoul5553]

I think they're hit and miss. There's quite a few modern tech maps that I enjoy playing, but others can feel unintuitive and messy. I've still not found a ScubDomino map I like, for example.

[@fivoka]

​@@maxdragonsoul5553 and a loud minority of ppl react to that feeling by saying a certain map shouldnt be ranked or complain about it in a pretending-to-be video essay when all they could be doing is say its not a map for them and move on to find something else to play

[@wildcard_chase4259]

This exact same sitsuation is happening in mania but has the opposite affects with the dariacore maps, they are so diverse in many ways with representing the song are a nice change

[@poketron77]

Dariacore is always a W genre (when done right)

[@MousewingID]

7:48 - 7:55 i laughed at this part xD idol, IDOl, IDOL.

[@critters-ly9tk]

people are capping so so hard with this stuff. maybe something has changed in the past 2 weeks, but I've managed to find multiple nice aim/burst maps in the ranked section without looking very hard at all. - Some old style maps by luscent/ponbot - some very very light tech by zekk, - some classic djulus angular (but still relatively comfortable) aim - a nice and hard demetori map with some streams (but its a metal song-- I mean come on) - and more... Like. come on guys. people are way overblowing the presence of wafercore messy mapping. Also I'm pissed that I'm even participating in the comment section of such a blatantly inflammatory drama vid.

[@unowong3084]

Also tbh I don't mind these new maps, my skillset is based around aim control so I can actually play them

[@NAMEMERKEN]

Wait AR is now other way around? Lmao, I remember back then it was more like no one could read >AR9 kek.

[@SaowAngel]

boomer times

[@NAMEMERKEN]

@@SaowAngel Well yeah im an osu boomer. Started playing when I was 14, now I'm 27 kek. Fun times, people played Hard difficulty instead of the insane ones to farm score with mods thanks to score ranking.

[@Hidero_]

I know a couple mappers who make really good aim maps that should be ranked. However they dont even try to rank them, why? “Because the BN’s wont rank it” or “the BN’s dont respond”

[@AMBYSTAR]

"who cares that he said some bad word like 20 years ago" *screenshot directrly under it was just under a year ago really odd thing to put in a mapping drama video

[@spacepouge]

to be fair about the playcount statistics, you have to understand the time frame of them. 2021 was prime quarantine, people had so much more time on their hands to farm and playcount spam, and there was a very high influx of new players due to the time too. That being said, with quarantine in the past and people having less time on their hands = less playcount. That point isnt only about the maps themselves that are being ranked.

[@arphimigonarmurder1125]

Older mapper (2012-2018) who is inactive nowadays here. Seems like there's been an "over-correction" for the metas of the past. I am not a fan of comfy maps, but I believe they should be made (and the average map should be like that). Around 2016, mapping (to me) was so extremely samey. It was a reason many of my friends (mappers mostly) and I quit around the time, along with the countless drama and politics. Even until maybe 2018 it was the same thing. I feel bad when I play a map that feels like a 2016 map because of the memories of the time. I also feel bad for the lack of them, because they're not bad even if I remember them that way. The experience you're feeling about 2023 is like my experience of 2016. On a separate note, 6.5sr maps are rare? I haven't played much since 2021~2022 but it seemed like there were constantly high SR maps all the time. Has mapping changed that much even in 2 years? I feel old. Wish you the best of luck and hope you can find the maps you enjoy in the future

[@SaowAngel]

There are some maps that are 6.5 but most of then are tech so they fell much harder than the said star rating

[@arphimigonarmurder1125]

@@SaowAngel I used to consider it the other way around: jump maps were inflated instead of tech maps being underrated. I think SR can only be used to judge relative difficulties of "similar style" maps. It's a shame that there's no nuance to a single number used to rate the difficulty of a map. note: I'm one of the weirdos who cant aim jumps for crap, but can handle techy maps and weird ARs/reading much better. For me, SR is fine for judging the difficulties of those maps relative to each other if they are mapped similar to each other, but if the maps are moderately different then SR is useless. Although I do agree that on average a 6.5sr jump map is (far) easier for most people than a 6.5sr tech map, despite me being me

[@memekingosu1658]

I haven't watched it, but I'll watch it.

[@SaowAngel]

thanks man

[@kingpotato3359]

I don't agree with this video much at all, but I get why you think this way. I like modern mapping a lot, I like that people push the boundary of what's "acceptable". I find it far more interesting than many of the years before it, it offers a new style of play, it's just that people either can't be bothered putting the effort in to learning it or simply just don't enjoy it. All this is fine, but I think everyone is exaggerating a little with how 'bad' the current state of mapping is.

[@Mayflower96]

honestly this year was incredible for mapping IMO. I haven't had this much fun in osu in a loooong time. I'm a player who really "feels" a map when I play it and the sheer amount of flow/tech maps + low AR maps is a great joy to me! I love seeing a mapper's interpretation of a song. so much fun. jump farm maps have always been lame anyway 😗😗👀

[@snw9729]

I am so unbelievably tired of every other new map I download being a tech map. Tech is already my least favourite kind of map to play, but I find it so weird and frustrating that tech is the vast majority of what is getting ranked. If the problem with aim maps was that they were getting stale, why is the response to heavily push a different type of map to the point of staleness instead of allowing a healthy variety of aim, tech, speed, flow, whatever to get ranked? Especially when general opinion is that the current mapping meta is kinda ass? And if the problem is not representing the song well enough, well, as long as everything is timed well and makes sense in the beat, and is fun and playable, frankly, who cares?

[@hirom4938]

Except that most maps aren't tech maps at all? There is now much more variety in maps compared to say 2019. Now you actually see new AR8 reading maps, precision maps, alternate maps, stream maps and slider heavy maps aka tech maps (not sure what you consider tech maps since people just call everything that isn't comfortable to them tech nowadays) and various other styles being ranked every week compared to a fifth of all ranked maps being uninspired and generically mapped anime openings while more niche mapping styles were almost non existent in the ranked section. I agree that we're currently in a time where maps seem to go into a different extreme as I wouldn't mind more comfortable maps being pushed harder in the ranked section either, as long as they aren't low effort. Some of the best maps in the game are comfortable and still represent the song well. But I don't think 2019-2021 were better, people are just biased because these "comfortable" maps have people conditioned to only really be good at aim and lack most other skill sets which makes playing 2023 maps overall more difficult.

[@yep3584]

@@hirom4938no variety cope

[@ricebowoy]

i play consistency and aim maps mainly from 6* - 7* and I do not feel like there's a lack of them? Its no peak Sotarks era amount but there's still a good amount of good enjoyable maps

[@avisar3457]

got any suggestions? im trying to find some 6.5-6.7 aim maps to play

[@yep3584]

@@avisar3457ur unlucky in the ranked section look for quantumvortex, xasuna, julaaan and grandsenpai maps those are all graveyarded but the only maps ur gonna find

[@Nirux]

Quite the based video (as always), thanks for saving osu! Content on KZbin ❤️ The goat

[@SaowAngel]

LMAOO thanks anyways

[@Lunethia]

I only play tournaments these days, and a lot of the songs are unranked, many of them new maps though. And a lot of them are amazing. Hmm!

[@kyleyjs]

Oh boy, osu at it's time in life where we get hate content creators. Just play the game and ignore the 3 maps per 20 that are non-standard. It's so pathetic that people complain about anything not exactly to their skillset. For the vast majority of osu history this was the case, it's only when a few mappers get a circlejerk group going and start ranking fuck tons of the same map that people can avoid GASP playing older maps if they exclusively want to play a single type of map. If you're not having fun then quit, no community needs, wants or is improved by people that make up issues to complain about and demand everyone cater to their incredibly limited interests.

[@SaowAngel]

Yeah i'm talking about a "niche issue" when you have some of the most popular mappers and a large group of players talking about the issues with the current mapping scene. It’s not just 3 maps as you stated

[@harpoporah745]

@@SaowAngelseethe

[@kolja783]

I think tournaments are influencing mapping too much... Tournament mappools used to include very niche and specific skillsets and now those niches almost feel like a majority of ranked when you try to play above 6* I get "old map le ar9" skillset but it feels really out of touch when newer maps are much more technical and still demand low ar at high sr... rdash likes girls, fdfd, atama no taisou, tag4, all very simple to read just very fast for low ar. These new maps have things like intentionally deceptive spacing like a normal looking burst of 7 that's actually a quad, single and double at ar6-9 and inconsistent overlaps/stacks everywhere. I get some antimotion expression with tricky reading and love a lot of graveyard chugger maps for instance but some of these maps just belong in the ar9.6 category like akali maps. For the love of god understand 6*, ar8, and reading are all fine but pick 1 or 2 or you made a map for 7 people and a memory challenge/ar9.5 unranked edit for anyone else that accidentally liked the song lol

[@DARKINBLADE.]

I have a genetic joint condition and am easily susceptible to flare ups especially in a wrist-destroying game like osu!. I used to play a lot as a kid, around 2016, and I was personally a big fan of the maps release around 2013-2016. I started playing again just 3 days ago and yeah… don’t think I can stick around much longer lol. 2-3 maps are honestly enough to completely kill my wrists and set them on fire at this point. Before I decided to stop playing for my own physical health though, something I noticed about modern maps is the jump between Hard and Insane maps is MUCH bigger now. I’m able to FC the vast majority of Hard maps I’ve tried on the first go, yet as soon as I jump into Insane I’m mostly getting a B rank, A if lucky but usually at around 93%, or even just straight up unable to finish the map sometimes. I guess it’s a skill issue on my end because I no longer have the finger strength to do long streams or consistent single tapping (I’ve noticed a lot of modern maps nowadays rely on weirdly timed single tapping). Oh well, it is what it is.

[@kingsiracha4565]

As someone who hit a 60-50k rank awhile back and started going for a consistency playstyle, more comfort maps would be nice but I don't know how to feel about the Sotarks style being the one to represent a comfort map. One of the most egregious examples I encountered was the map by galvanize of Gold Dust vs the Sotarks version. Sotark's jumps felt really felt monotone and indistinguishable from one another while galvanize was really able to translate the feel of the song into the gameplay of the map. This is ofc a really subjective look on mapping but I do think having the map reflect the song to some degree goes a long way but definitely reaches a limit when the sliders and circles start doing dark voodoo magic

[@dubbu3543]

DARIACORE MENTIONED!!!!!!

[@visionary4040]

great video i liked how uninformed and ignorant you were throughout it and i’m looking forward to more

[@SaowAngel]

At least you think it's a great video

[@yep3584]

shut up LOL

[@Riyoe]

the whole thing is like > oh no pp system gives too much pp for aim farm > fix it? nah > let's just not rank aim maps anymore

[@SaowAngel]

nah we nerf it and also not rank them

[@WillyOsu]

I disagree with almost every point made in this video and I think it's a very narrow and cherrypicked view of mapping as a whole

[@notraidzlol]

Modern mapping sucks face making guy, learn to accept that

[@Artimis.depressed]

I don't feel the same, like honestly every map I've played (ranked) recently has just felt "broken", "unfinished" or "bad"

[@strawbewwiii]

just remove all maps honestly

[@SaowAngel]

I think no one is allowed to map except ppy

[@BlueGoat3175]

knew this vid was gonna hit my recommended, and its just as ignorant as I thought it'd be. Like, every single ranked map you've played has cared about "visuals" and "song representation", its just a matter of the techniques they used, like there are problems with the ranking system with how it fails to encourage actual innovation (not a return to boring sotarks mapping) but players always fail to identify them, its crazy

[@BlueGoat3175]

also rlly frikin hilarious how you (and most other players at this point) categorize every map that isn't the most basic jump or stream map as "tech", like that word has no meaning anymore

[@yep3584]

@@BlueGoat3175cope

[@sean12444]

i feel like the only one who actually enjoys weird tech, alt, and low ar maps 😭i dont really mind new ranked maps all that much, but i will admit i can see why people dislike it, and i agree a lot of aim maps are carried by hard streams

[@PotatoToon]

RLC's Pretender was truly the moment everything changed from old era to best era. It was the era of good mapping where it wasn't old mapping and it wasn't yet jump farm mapping. It had a balance of jumps, streams and sometimes tech. The pp jump farm era disgusted so many players between 2017-2020 that once pp BNs retired or were demoted, the new BNs pretty much decided to seriously slow down the ranking of maps that most players found good and fun for the sake of the 0.1% of players who can play those really difficult and uncomfortable patterns in maps that have no respect for following the music or emphasizing.

[@DaskyAiko]

I honestly thinks if mappers actually SAY what style of map they make, like having a tag on the desc or in the beatmap list would be very good and making easier for new player and people who enjoy a certain type of map, but i honestly think we have a other problem : osu! is 16 now, we have A LOT of map (60 000 ranked in 2020) and you can't just remake a circle. Mapping this year was shit for sure, but i don't think it will be better in 2024, because mappers don't want to remake old maps even if they are appreciated for some reason.

[@Pranantika_Albymesha]

Honestly, it wasn't helping for a new player i guess

[@jent14]

Bro called dariacore barely a song 😭😭😭 (I agree)

[@cereal8193]

😡

[@RadiationRat]

Merry christmas to my favourite depressed osu! player!

[@SaowAngel]

thanks big man

[@kei6318]

for so long i was wondering why I couldn't really find 6.5*+ maps that were fun so I just play the same favorite maps I always play but then I don't wanna play the game no more

[@atollx522]

skill issue

[@miwiki6]

I created my account a day before you created yours, wow

[@SaowAngel]

sheeeeeeeeesh

[@ProtyG]

I wonder if people would play these new tech and alt maps more while complaining less if they gave more pp

[@cultureddoggo5606]

that is only if, its been notorious that its really hard to make changes that make them more viable. although i do remember xexxar's "pp rework again" focusing more on density per frame. no idea where it goes from there though.

[@SaowAngel]

maybe the playbase might start getting good at tech maps if pp is encouraged

[@shadowllght]

If you regularly played these maps you would know, no people definitely would not.

[@Exarvi]

Tech maps never gave pp so far, neither i see any way for that without breaking existing system

[@yep3584]

no

[@bongalberttio318]

Legit the only way to fix this is to rank map not only from the rules, but also community opinion. "Map is super cheap 1-2s but player likes it? Rank it" Simple as that. Of course they still need to follow the rules to be rankable

[@DeviousHands]

The Loved System would like to know your location

[@Exarvi]

Uhm that's what Loved is for?

[@rinku5005]

​@@ExarviBut loved maps don't give pp right?

[@bongalberttio318]

@@Exarvi yea the 110 stars loved aspire map is a "rankable" map

[@Flameboi900]

This is the reason I play older maps and I also play new “unranked” maps that are to a beatmap nominators eyes “unrankable” but to me are just like I remember or actually fun to play because it’s playable

[@trillrl]

so players are annoyed by mappers mapping for song representation in a rhythm game rather than 1/2 rhythm aim spam? i can’t understand the arguments of mappers mapping for their own enjoyment, why should every mapper spend time and effort going through the ranked process to just rank stuff that they aren’t proud of just for less than 10% of the player base?

[@cynsusdesignated]

dariacore hate will NOT be tolerated ‼‼‼

[@SaowAngel]

sorry

[@SixDigitOsu]

I personally think farm maps are pretty bad and boring, if you swap the song with another of the same bpm the map still fits. I think that's pretty fucking stupid ngl.

[@cultureddoggo5606]

oh yeah another point you made in the "osu isn't fun anymore" video is that people are now starting to go outside and touch grass and that could be one of the factors why the play counts are abysmal, i am not saying this defending the "modern mapping scene" it is a point that i want people to be reminded of.

[@SaowAngel]

yeah i forgot to mention that could've factored some of the play count, but not all of it. it's still the maps ppl don't wanna play

[@esky0396]

I have started playing osu! in 2023, and I have attained a 800k place on the leaderboard, which is very bad from what I've heard. But nevertheless, the point is that I have basically never heard of osu! before that and my friend that got me into it started playing sometimes around 2019. He wasn't playing very actively, but I was. I enjoyed the game so much, that I have surpassed my friend in rank and I am on a similar skill level as he is. I've had a multiplayer session with my friend where we played some maps, and it was interesting to see that the maps that I chose for us to play weren't particularly to liking of my friend and neither were his to me. And it was because of the things stated in the video, his style of playing are those 1-2 jump maps, whereas mine are the tech maps. I have become so used to them, it may have to do with the fact that I started playing in the modern era of osu!. It's kinda disheartening to me, because of this I can't aim all that well.

[@unowong3084]

Also also lost umbrella is unironically really fun to play it's just shit like Ryuusei Aika maps

[@PandaXStorm]

well making a map is a pain in the ass. tryed it once and gave up after 2 hours of trying. - ofc you want a few sliders in your map. making sliders either ends up in boring repetition or you make monster sliders right from the gates of hell. - aiming for a specific star rating is nearly impossible. - you dont know if the new song your trying to map gets removed anyway because of copyright issues. and i guess more stuff.

[@SaowAngel]

this is pretty accurate. I tried mapping and gave up lmao

[@maaadbot2441]

sounds like skill issue to me

[@unowong3084]

Yume Chizu is actually copyright striked and you can't use it anymore

[@Kobra_TF]

Honestly, i think that it's good, that nowadays you need to have a multiple skillsets to play a maps from ranked, as a tapping player i struggled a lot when meta was straight aim 1-2 maps, but nowadays i feel kinda equal on the maps, since i can do streams/bursts/finger control to gsin score on them, and aim players can hold combo on aim parts. Also, there are many generic maps in ranked, the only difference in them is a bit more complex pattering. I feel like the 2023 was an absolute banger year of mapping, many different skillsets, many interesting and fun maps to play, i enjoyed this year a lot

[@Marune]

osu does not have a standardized difficulty like other rhythm games, so it becomes harder to balance. You really can't trust the stars rating anymore; it only shows how much potential pp you can get from the song, and not how hard it is. This wouldn't be much of an issue if you just let people modify approach rate to their convenience. Suddenly *every map* becomes approachable, the difficulty stabilizes across the board, and you don't have to look at the stats to know whether a map is good for you before playing it. Like speed mods in every -good- rhythm game.

[@NewbieFirst]

it doesn't even show pp, one 6* map can be 300ish pp for ss, the other on the exact same star rating can give like 500-600ish.

[@noway7405]

2:47 whats the song name

[@Dratos]

WAGAMAMA RAKIA - SURVIVE

[@Invhytas]

I don't really care for the 2017-2019 kind of jump farm maps, but I do want there to be high difficulty aim maps. Aim is what sets this game apart from other rhythm games in the first place. It's literally how most people get introduced to this game nowadays (valorant/OW/current flavor of the year fps players using osu for "aim practice"). It looks like mappers are trying to de-emphasize aim to a point where it's an afterthought nowadays. Instead, I want cool and interesting patterns, some linear aim, some precision aim etc. Imagine maps like hades: the rise in 2024 (I know that map has 210 bpm streams, but I'm mostly focusing on the aim patterns it has).

[@lelleone3652]

do anyone know what map it is att around 2:45? looks like a banger

[@Stanky_Foot]

I always think of fieryrage's guilty all the same when i think of a map that I want to play. It's relatively high SR, the patterns may be run off the mill jumps but fieryrages way of mapping the jumps really fit with the song. I always get an adrenaline rush playing the map and how it goes kinda erratic at the end with some burst streams that arent ridiculously hard to read. I feel like a lot of maps are unplayable to most of the playerbase nowadays because they have this wacky transition to a pattern you dont ever see in most maps, even if the other sections are tame. It's just stupid. Also I get it, overlapping circles on top of one another may seem artistic to most of you mappers but i guarantee you anyone that isnt taking this game too seriously gets put off if theyre 1 minute into a song and you get an unreadable stack of circles that requires having previously failed the song to make a mental note.

[@TsunakaClubby]

diagnosis: skill issue. be the change you wanna see lol. don't blame current mappers for your "jump maps missing" problem. become a mapper. become a bn. maybe then you will realise just how mind numbingly boring it is to map jump farm, but also to mod it as a bn. ps play rainy boots :)

[@mekieosu]

like it or not, jumps and aim is the most played playstyle in the game, ppl discover the game because of aim, everyone at first wanted to be whitecat. And now the playstyle that put this game on the map is being killed by bns bcs they wanna be “based” or are just haters. what’s so bad about aim I don’t understand

[@jkfjsfaugueyfhsdfjfafajjgu6769]

As a hardstuck 112k. I love streams and bursts in my aim map to break the absolut mind numbing 1-2 jumps for 90 seconds straight

[@Artimis.depressed]

I'm still mad about the PP system getting abused like this, honestly hoping this gets fixed in lazer!

[@tofaa3668]

As someone with a particular skillset of just raw stamina and speed and zero reading and aim (well kind of) I find it extremely hard to find any playable maps within 7 star range without dt and 8 star range with dt. It feels like every map is just awkwardly mapped sliders

[@levxox]

dariacore maps are always weird

[@thesaltyspoon7483]

This is what osu content needs! Another 5 digit guy who loves to make videos on things he doesn't know anything about! yay!!!

[@mortimerc97]

For real

[@SaowAngel]

love when people still use other peoples' ranks to devalue someone's opinion

[@xxxponya55]

Well yeah it's pretty obvious that you don't know what you're talking about

[@Exarvi]

Then post your rank before accusing. And its not subjective point of view that mapping severely lacks variety.

[@nullptr_]

"You can't have an opinion because you're not in the 0.7% of best players." I sure hope you follow your own advice and don't have an option on anything besides trolling.

[@Velolyn]

2:40, even if you're a stream player you get the same experience. At 4 and 5* you can play maps that are just triples and bursts with little to no jumps. Now at 70k you have Juvenile, and everything else has jumps that are (for stream farming) the hardest part. On 10 Things Ai no Sukima [Sytho] I can easily 100% the streams on about 1/3rd of my attempts, but having the streams sandwiched by 6* jumps makes it a 12% stream map, with the slow section included being 24%. And as I'm trying harder maps it seems like it just gets worse as I can't find many stream-focused maps at 6-6.5* that don't have huge jumps, and then they seem to skip to The Spiritual Relief 230bpm accelerating/decelerating spaced 8.41* streams, which is a good map but it doesn't help the 6/7* gap. Even with the few 7* stream maps they're super un-fun to play because it's all CS-5 OD-10 AR-9.5 10m maps that have ridiculous spaced streams and/or cut streams/bursts that don't follow the rhythm at all. For example, Ange du Blanc Pur, where the beat is a constant but the last part has cut streams for no reason

[@poketron77]

I think the main difference between tech in ranked maps today and in the past is that modern tech is extremely overmapped

[@Kofja]

Man, this Idol song must be good to have so many maps in the top played

[@andreaspurnomo1688]

that's why i don't really play new map at all, i just search good old tech or read map

[@Dani-of2zu]

personally i can’t play the gimmicky alt maps very well as well, mostly getting B ranks to barely A ranks, but I still enjoy them and don’t mind them being ranked at all. The problem is “comfy” aim maps being veto’d cause it “abuses the pp system” and uses “repetitive/boring” patterns. My question here is how aren’t any of the newly ranked speed maps a problem then? Glory days, lionheart, crystallite dreams and all other 3 lionheart clones are literally the same patterns copy and pasted till the end of the 4-6min song AND abuse the current speed/length bonus meta extremely well, so how are they getting ranked but all of a sudden sotarks’ new map is getting veto’d? Hope this drama can shine some light on this and BN’s can reconsider.

[@nahnvm8493]

People are gonna complain no matter what mapping “meta” is out. I’d rather how it is right now since I find tech maps more enjoyable to play. You know that if we go back to jump farms everyone is gonna complain yet again like they once did. Also like there is nothing stopping you from playing old maps?? Also also if we just do farm maps then what happens to all the people enjoying tech maps or reading maps or speed farm maps? They’re all just gonna leave too

[@Poxle.]

1: its really not that hard to find aim maps that are above 6.5*, just go into multi lobbys, and set that as minnimum star rating, and name it smth abt aim maps 2: The idea that this new style of mapping is just uncofortable and hard to play doesnt really make any sense. For example I am a relativly new player who started Jan 1 2023, meaning I started around when this whole trend startewd as well, and to me these new maps and their patters are extreamly confortable and not that hard while the 1 2 jump patters from the maps areound the years of 2015-17 are extreamly unconfortable which is something I have been working on. This showing that there are no definitive "unfortable patterns." I do have more opinions on this whole video but im to lazy to write them down, and im to lazy to spell and grammer check this so ya.

[@TwintailsEnjoyer]

5:09 I would like to add to this statement that there are some mappers that think dj mag (one example I can think of is Paradogi) is one of the worst/overrated maps in the game which is why we have these kinds of tech maps nowadays. I also feel like mappers please bns/nat a bit too much to the point they're following a formula where maps don't feel inspiring at all just so they can get them ranked but end up not getting played at all. This is also the first time in my 5 years of playing osu that I just don't want to look through the ranked section cause I know it's all tech/alt so instead I play unranked/loved maps where mappers don't have to please bns/nat. And the maps are actually playable and enjoyable. I might be high on copium but something needs to be changed

[@SonaZeta]

Honestly you can see from the average player count alone, even before covid this game had on average like 20k players every single day. Now? its sometimes dipping below 10k. I downloaded almost every single new map in the ranking section, most of them plays like shit Im not gonna lie, even at the 5 star range. I used to complained about how tech map are not really ranked that much, but now its the complete opposite. They are ranking the extreme of the extreme tech maps that nobody wants to play. It went from stale comfy mapping to extreme tech map that 0.1% of the osu player base can play. I like playing tech map, but some of these are so extreme its basically what some might call "unplayable". Im also active ish on the modding/mapping scene, a lot of people went from giving suggestions during 2020 2021 eras to straight up tell others how to map the map now. I've seen people usually only points out mistakes and inconsistency with the map itself. Some of the BNs even straight up tell others how "I'd map it" in the form of suggestion mod. Its simply ridiculous

[@Nemo_Doko]

You mentioned that there are already 10 yume chizu and still you want more. It means those 10 maps leave nearly no emotional connection with you. I think mappers don't want that. They don't want to spend time working on a map just for players to play once, fc it and move on. So the conflict is: why make another comfy aim map that leave no memory in players' mid, while you can make a experimental/cutting-edge/controversial map that will be talked about for long. (Including both negative and positive talk)

[@SaowAngel]

That yume chizu comment was like half joking. I like the song but i don't think there needs to be more yume chizu maps since we have enough and they are mapped similar

[@qrzone8167]

Well I think a lot of modern maps are still fine. A lot of them suck because the community decided that we shouldn't basically alienize noob mappers just so that the community can only play good ranked maps, which I agree with. A way I often find good maps is to actually to go through my favorite maps, and see if the mapper has made other maps. A "good" map is fun no matter what you specialize in, I am a jump-stream industrial pp farmer and always have been, but damn I love playing a lot of tech maps with 1/3 and 1/4 rhythms even though its literally 0 weighted pp.

[@JNJNRobin1337]

let me try to thinkthonk. so this basically is that the mapping scene is trying to play into the audiovisual aspect rather than gameplay?

[@MrCaramel727]

yes. and i fucking hate it as a 2012 player :)

[@JNJNRobin1337]

@@MrCaramel727 even with a good amount of time since seeing the video or any osu content, i can absolutely imagine why. sounds borderline, if not truly, unplayable.

[@gian-marco6047]

What we call "modern mapping" should simply coexist with now considered older farm maps. There is an audience for both and if done right both can be good amd both can be enjoyed. New or older mappers should also start to adapt songs that you wouldn't typically hear on osu such as pop sogs or hip hop. I got a bunch of friends of mine who would actually play the game if there were the rights songs and beatmaps.

[@shinejnn2]

Plot twitst: turn out everybody love the game too much, and because they love it too much, everyone start complain this and that and like absolutely everything else. Be grateful guys, idk why dafuq you guys need to complain soo much about something, or literally anything. Just enjoy the dang game lol, who are you to begin with. Ask yourself this, whoever is reading this. Stop complain and get into game and enjoy the heck out of it first, before truly know what to really complain about. Also actually, 2023-2024 mapping is kinda weird ngl

[@Nekathe]

I like a nice balance. Give me some of that slider axis proportional emphasis, with a side of 1-2s and maybe a stream with that too.

[@PinaEverlue]

i have played 4k maps alone this week. (completionist one day maybe hopefully if i dont give up...) and i just wanna say THANK YOU TO WHOEVER MADE THESE SHITTY MAPS they really change things up so im not just doing the same boring shit all day. its fun! (serious) /s

[@PinaEverlue]

but to be more serious i think that the new map styles are good. we have all these old maps that we can play no one is stopped from playing them but mapping getting more difficult to play and more complex adds some skill to work up to and makes it so you don't feel bored while playing. hopefully people will find more ways to make mapping both good and bad because i personally believe even bad maps deserve to be played. its all skill based just get gud.

[@TheNatos]

i just started playing osu like a week ago and I have no idea whats going on. But I can download clannad beatmaps and cry so its fine.

[@hevilmateold]

you are keeping the osu youtube entertaining

[@Sylvprixia]

personally, whenever I map something, I choose 1 of 2 paths with the map; either something that cares less about how mappers would think of it but a lot more about players' enjoyment playing the map, or just a shitpost 13+ star that is just made to be looked at in the editor, and a lot of the time I'll even create a nerfed diff that is at least playable for top players. I should also note that most of my maps are really hard 6-7 stars with a lot of crazy patterns intended to be played by rank 15k and better, heck even I have only ever passed 4 of like the 20 maps I've finished in 2023 (about 6 of 80 if you count unfinished) I also don't really like most of the 2023 maps, to name 2 mappers that I have strong opinions on, for Ryuusei Aika, as a mapper I love his maps, but I would never actually play them, as for wafer, I don't see any value in playing the maps, and as a mapper I can see the gimmicks but I think it's unjustifiable to rank, but he's wafer so can do whatever he wants it seems

[@celestialgaze]

as a player, former 4 digit (i decayed out a month ago 🥲), i adore low AR maps, playing alt, and some of the gimmicks being normalized in the ranked section... i love streams and ironically my worst skillset is aim (in contrast to like 80% of players...), so i should be happy with this right? well no, even though some of these maps cater to me, the fact that it is such an overwhelming majority of the maps being ranked nowadays and i barely even get the option to play comfortable aim maps (or just comfortable *patterns* in general) makes playing most newer maps not that fun. as a mapper, none ranked (lol) but i'd like to think my experience gives my opinion some weight, i feel like song representation is being prioritized over visuals more and more... in most maps i play there are consistent visual patterns to align with the song, but it doesn't *look* satisfying. it just looks like the mapper placed the note in a random spot and then said "hey since i placed it in this random spot over here too it makes it work..." i don't necessarily think this is a bad philosophy to have but i see it completely overshadowing maps with nice and clear linear/parallel/geometric patterns that i find satisfying to look at. overall, the issue is just stagnation in the ranked section. i think it's good to have these sorts of maps there, just not comprising 95% of it. we need maps that prioritize song representation, yes, but also others that favor playability, or visual appeal, and pertain to a wide variety of skillsets, etc. It needs to cater to everyone, not just mappers with X philosophy, and not just players with Y skillset.

[@upbeat6639]

sick editing! nice video