Modern Software Engineering

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#coding #neovim #typescript #programming #vim #softwareengineering #codinglife #webdesign #webdevelopment #webdev #javascript #rustlang #rust #twitch #twitchstreamer #programmerhumor #codinghumor #software #softwareengineer #softwaredeveloper #softwaredevelopment

[@ThePrimeagen]

rizz em with the tism

[@rachelcasey1449]

It'd work on me

[@smddev]

Where would I even find a seven-piece anonymous alternative rock band? Melbourne, Australia??

[@HappyCheeryChap]

​@@smddevthis is serious mum!

[@Mel-mu8ox]

Was this AI generated?

[@sir_jordan]

@ThePrimagen I started to use neovim 2 days ago after watching your videos

[@Louisianish]

"It creates a lot of work and no results. We actually call that 'modern software engineering.'" 😂

[@deskjawi]

ooh! (⁠*⁠’⁠Ｏ⁠’⁠*⁠)

[@smnkumarpaul]

That is the best description for UML Diagrams ever. Our teachers believed that,it is how softwares are developed. I have never used it in my 6 years of work experience.

[@diynevala]

I have sometimes used it in my 24 years of work experience. It was more important when we did not have such nice IDE's and there were sometimes hundreds of DB tables created in the 80's... sith got messy, UML's made it visually digestible.

[@smnkumarpaul]

@@diynevala That is absolutely understandable. Sadly most projects does not bother to invest in creating a ULM or Entity Relationship Diagrams making it a nightmare to work on the DBs. There have been many times, I have to dig through piles of code to get an understanding of it.

[@diynevala]

@@smnkumarpaul It is also super cool to see hundred lines connected to "Product" - ok there are some foreign keys with products.. :D

[@MrKasenom]

As a student, do you use other kinds of diagrams? Or how do you visualize the project before starting

[@diynevala]

@@MrKasenom on complicated protocols a sequence diagram can be helpful - if not for you, at least for the colleague you are trying to explain it.

[@CodeConstellations]

What on earth is with Prime's eyes. Prime either has Neuralink with a built in filter or is possessed.

[@t3hSurge]

Some AI or something grrgrr

[@cr0nus01]

@CodeConstellations this stream was an irl stream he did with someone called SushiDragon who does a bunch of camera effects during stream. This was just a filter out on prime while he was speaking

[@hexisXz]

Or both

[@justinhaase8628]

Just the average blue eyed individual

[@theultimatejack3360]

He has Kiroshis

[@nathanreed4705]

As a guy with a masters in software engineering I have to say that I have never felt more attacked

[@theprovego2934]

Is it that useless tho?

[@nathanreed4705]

@@theprovego2934 did get me a job so wasn't for me at least

[@Dremth]

​@@theprovego2934It's useless in the same way that a blueprint is useless if you want to build a house. The blueprint alone isn't going to build the house, but it sure is nice to have when you've got 30 different people trying to build the same house.

[@cryam6428]

@@Dremth Or when your the 7th person to live in the house 20 years after construction and something needs replacing. And you realize oh wait there should be a door here.

[@gabrielpauna62]

​@theprovego2934 not at all, I was the lead dev right out the gate with the knowledge from my degree, I was the first to pioneer the microservices approach at my company and was the first to do many things I completely disagree with what he says

[@heartofcode5372]

That's the sweetest person you are talking to "oooh :)"

[@alst4817]

Why say sweet when you mean dumb?

[@liran8799]

​@@alst4817 are you so unhappy with your life that you insult a random person for nothing

[@sir_jordan]

and then we got bad reactions from our lecturer when these squares didn't have round edges and the arrow heads aren't filled properly

[@sultanhanga]

Why this is giving me flashbacks

[@skilz8098]

I'd write on the test One Big Box: This is a Worthless Waste of Time.

[@himalczyk258]

So true!

[@stevez5134]

around 2009-2010, on macOS I literally couldn't figure out how to get the triangles or arrows to show up properly and I had to draw them in, god forbid I had to go back and change the design, it would be another day of work drawing everything in manually. and I still couldn't get it right. I know today I could probably just use ChatGPT.

[@lokosstratos7192]

@@stevez5134 tbh using chatgpt introduced me to more errors i could ever imagine XD

[@Dmitri_Ivanovich]

Accurate description of my year 3 database paper.

[@rammrras9683]

I'm afraid I'm going to dream about relational algebra tonight

[@ToveriJuri]

They are somewhat useful for databases.

[@hcn6708]

CS Major here and we learned that stuff in Databases and Software Engineering Can't imagine 3 years of that

[@gggggggggg44100]

Bro, I was like why does this just sound like database management course.

[@hextech687]

Prime's eyes look like he's turning to the Sith.

[@myPrzeslaw]

You know, there are some consequences of leaving Netflix.

[@0xACAB]

Skill issue

[@jt-moneyHockey]

@@0xACAB def skill issue

[@levmedvedev]

I believe that he's chopped some trainee software engineers with a lightsaber 😵

[@hextech687]

@@levmedvedev He went into whatever bootcamp is pushing Javascript for the backend and killed all the younglings.

[@_keano]

wait, UML diagrams was among the first thing we learned in CS, I can't imagine having to learn this during a masters

[@TYNEPUNK]

masters in sw engineering at least in the uk is like a catch up for non coders, they do a much simpler degree than an undergrad. they do say 18 months in basic coding, i was teaching it while i was an undergrad. sw masters is suprisingly not impressive. hence i decided to do a different one, i wasnt even allowed because i knew it all from my batchlers, its literally not allowed.

[@dough-pizza]

Software engineering rizz 🗣️🗣️🗣️

[@tormentedzeus2755]

Gives a new meaning to entity relationship

[@elbaraaabuaraki327]

you forgot to say "I worked at Netflix btw"

[@randerins]

such an unflex

[@mohamedaityoussef9965]

no longer

[@Prince_Luci]

Bro looks like he was built by the Tyrell corporation.

[@mr.k8660]

I dream of a girl listening to me like that

[@vroomerlifts]

real

[@HappytreeLuis]

Just go up to a random girl and infodump on her. It'll work, trust me.

[@SebastianGrignoli]

This guy is a standup programmer. I would go to his show anytime if he puts one up in my city.

[@abel_nagy]

Or you can just watch him on Twitch

[@hephestosthalays2700]

I can't believe how powerful that moustache is

[@kkiimm009]

I did more programming during my master than my bachelor. I did those diagram things during my bachelor. Stil a waste of time compared to having worked those two years. Especially since I don't work with what I specialized in.

[@radioJim]

Computer science master's student here, and he's not exaggerating. Like, at all. If you want to learn anything useful while you're in school, you really need to have personal projects!

[@rdom9680]

Huh, I had 1 or 2 modules in my first year of uni that used UML and made ER diagrams, I think that's got to do with your course in particular. But I do agree about personal projects really helping you apply what you learn.

[@minastaros]

good diagrams can enormously help understanding the bigger picture, if they are seen as sketches. They are good to identify boundaries and unwanted dependencies, but they are not a religion. It just depends, sometimes the problem is simple so that one can immediately start coding, the other time better draw a high-level sketch first.

[@Robin_Goodfellow]

I've never used UML at work. I have, however, used database diagrams to generate SQL tables to great effect.

Dijkstra said it best: "Software Engineering is how to program if you cannot."

[@ImNotSoLegit]

As a current MSCS student taking a database design course, this one really hit home.

[@dsrogersjr]

It's where you learn the tools, techniques, and practices to build quality software. That you will then throw out the window because your "agile" team needs to deliver all the features, on an exact release date, all at once because all features are the top priority

[@JakePIXL]

Prime gives me the vibes of being a character off of parks and rec

[@Kira_x86_64]

UML!!!! I can handle discrete math and compiler theory but when the proffesors pull out UML my soul dies and I zone out.

[@ethanwasme4307]

sounds like someone went into comp sci with no hobbyist experience and eyes on the money 😂😂

[@Kira_x86_64]

@@ethanwasme4307 Actually you would be surprised, I don't really care about the money. I really only care about optimization and making stuff go fast. Even before university I would sit around and look at the assembly code generated by gcc and try to figure out what I can do different to get more cache hits. For me computer science has always been about the computer and I find UML to be a waste of time that slows down my (and my peers) production speed and results in less performant code due to over abstraction. Long winded but I don't know where you were going with your comment but it just seems a bit rude.

[@datboi1861]

​@@ethanwasme4307You really saw "I can handle discrete math and compiler theory" and still ended up at that conclusion. How?

[@antt1810]

​@@ethanwasme4307who the fuck would draw UML diagrams as a hobby?

[@AlexDo2]

I like uml more than discrete tbh

[@kneza96BG]

Was that the beautiful wife he keeps talking about?

[@toast_dev]

No - sushidragon’s wife

[@yajobaby]

Kolega

[@DebugDave]

hahaha "A lot of work and no results". Accurate AF

[@xyola]

These days software is hard to maintain because enginners dont want to do documentation

[@KazuhiraMiller-e7o]

Depends highly on the project. A 15m line legacy code base built as a monolith? Not really possible to fully document in a meaningful capacity. A greenfield microservices project? Yeah you can document the endpoints of each microservice and what it's supposed to do, but then you have microservice issues. Keeping a monolith well documented is incredibly difficult. It's better to spend that time on using a statically typed language, idiomatic variable names, easy to understand folder structure, avoiding impure functions, etc.

[@mattdoestechstuff]

At least most people are not still trying to generate code from those diagrams too anymore..

[@spoonikle]

I am sure Mermaid chart is working on it using LLM’s

[@StarryNightSky587]

*ModelBasedSystemEngineering entered the chat*

[@daves.software]

I'm sure IBM is still trying.

[@dasdasdasdasdasdasdas3720]

tell that to my company

[@blarghblargh]

The fact that you can't generate the diagrams from the code and get an easily followable chart goes to show that it's not really well mapped to the task at hand.

[@jenstrudenau9134]

Uml diagrams are used rarely in real applications. But they are the eight tool for education. If you want to learn object oriented programming you need to think about objects and their relations. Drawing a box with arrows is faster than to write all the code. It's also easier to grasp.

[@g0dzilla_au]

The guy who taught me UML made sure we knew how to so it real well, and then promptly told me outside of class that he'd never used it in industry but had to teach it.

[@yaritebaba]

Thanks for explaining that. I once interviewed a person who had a bachelors and masters in comp sci. They also had one years work experience developing with php on linux. I was asking basic questions and they didnt know, so i kept scaling the questions back, until i go to the point where i asked what linux distribution they used to develop on at their last role. They couldn't even tell me that, all they knew was they used phpstorm ide. So clearly those university qualifications are worse than used toilet paper.

[@GonzoEnt]

Congratulations, you found one of the students that BS'ed their way through ( with possibly with the minimum grade possible) two degree programs and possibly had no major interest in the discipline. As a current student in a related discipline, I agree there are some gaps in what is taught vs what is needed. I would have likely answered at least half your questions before I started for a degree. You just had a bad candidate which is not representative of the whole.

[@AmandaVieiraMamaesouCult]

As a data engineer, I actually use E-R diagrams to map what I need to do in warehouse migrations.

[@codingrules]

I remember that being a part of one course.

[@tttm99]

I learned my rounded rectangles during higher learning but my squares with arrows on the job 😂

[@shwolverine2300]

I can’t wait for the day “programmer” and “developer” no longer tied to “software engineer”. It’s literally like “mechanic” and “mechanical engineer” Just like “construction worker” and “civil engineer”.

[@thrillhouse4784]

I still get happy when I see diamonds, but I forget what they mean

[@huubeijndhovenvan7177]

Do you mean you can get a master of engineering degree in the USA by finishing just one first year subject of a Dutch or German university of technology program? Really?

[@vandermannmusic]

That was literally also just my first bachelor semester in my software engineering studies in Denmark haha.

[@shreddedtwopack6625]

@@vandermannmusicchill out chill out. The US is completely dominating you in software and technology. Don’t talk shi to us all high and mighty.

[@MidlifeCrisisJoe]

The American university system is pretty janky, so the answer is actually, "probably."

[@vandermannmusic]

@@shreddedtwopack6625 Didn't mean it as talking shit. I apologize if that is how it sounded.

[@paschikshehu7988]

There are one year master degrees, they are supposed to be more business-oriented or more practical, whereas the two year masters are proper degrees but mostly theoretical in nature.

[@michaelholopainen2822]

What he trying the descripbe is UML language that is used to DESIGN software. And if he actually knew what he was talking about, he would know that you can actually automatically generate the software code from than design. Just like experience and skilled contruction worker can eyeball stuff and get it done fast and well without elaborate design drawings. But there are buildings you do want to competent engineer to have made designs for.

[@KazuhiraMiller-e7o]

I have never had a business person or designer give me a UML diagram to generate code from anywhere I have worked and I have never heard of this being done at any large tech company.

[@GmoneyDaGamer24]

Sounds like data management the way he describes items and their relations to fields

[@just4fun607]

he cut 'i work at netflix btw'

[@TYNEPUNK]

lolz yep

[@valkhorn]

Sadly it’s true. The degree gets your toe in the door. Maybe. Your projects get your whole leg in the door:

[@Flashcard_Games]

Yep, showing the work you've done is what really matters. The guy in school drawing flowcharts is going to be behind the guy spending time actually making software. We learn software by making software not flowcharts.

[@Xemptuous]

Literally exactly what most of my MS was.

[@perarneng]

Many microservices architectures fail because people don’t understand the domain and don’t slice the system at the right boundaries. This causes chattiness and it becomes a distributed monolith. To avoid this you create a domain model that everyone can understand and approve. After that you slice your system up in microservices. The best tools to use here is boxes with names and relationships. Usually following the UML standard. Not understanding this whole concept of domain modelling and how important it is makes the whole software industry filled with systems that are dead on arrival. If you don’t fully understand the domain then it’s very hard to build a great software architecture. It’s also important that the stakeholders which are often non technical domain experts can validate the domain model. It’s very hard if they have to read code to do that.

[@MadGenious]

UML diagrams are rarely ever used for software development.. But they are used alot in Database Development.

[@chaboi685]

So software engineering is essentially just my 102 software design class. Plus extra years.

[@Trippze]

bro could bag any girl

[@dsrogersjr]

The "oooh" at the end lol

[@greyalice]

"Creates a lot of work and no results." Can't tell if I'm laughing or crying.

[@Wink-Wright]

About to finish undergrad for a Bachelors in Computer Information System. Work with UML at the start of every project, that planning time saves me hours when actually implementing.

[@prakhar9998]

UML is a waste of time. The time it takes to build these funky diagrams is almost equal to the time it takes to implement.

[@khaled_hawwas]

​@@prakhar9998 I agree . I prefer writing/ reading code than UML. It's slow at writing and it want alot of space reading it.

[@raticus79]

The book "Modern Software Engineering" by Dave Farley is actually good and I don't think there's any UML in there

[@echoawoo7195]

Aggregate and composite aren't relationship schemas. Aggregate is a collection function and composite describes creating an object property with some other type.

[@Fernando-rc8rw]

Thanks for the information 🤓☝️

[@calvinyip364]

Sounds like UML diagram, gantt charts etc. Learn that in my diploma. Its alot of work.

[@samarthsah5242]

feels like category theory

[@robbiedavey2439]

To get a degree in Software engineering, its very similar except you draw different shaped triangles and connect them with different words such as AND, OR, XAND and XOR

[@sullivan3503]

I think it's unfortunate how much hate diagrams get in CS. In every other field of engineering, their usefulness is accepted. I've created many useful diagrams for my work. They help clarify the conceptual structure of a system.

[@baronvonbeandip]

As a mathematician... it just sounds like you're doing category theory proofs

[@plaidchuck]

Right… if youre paying for a masters and they’re teaching bachelors level first normal form… run

[@Joker22593]

My CS Masters was in complexity theory, and that's at least marginally useful.

[@NapoleonThe12th]

In this short we see Sheogorath describe modern software engineering.

[@zami001001]

of all my years working professional programming, I think i've used UML diagrams only a single time. I am delighted to report that UML diagram has never been looked at by another human soul.

[@chicahaga]

Thats it I’m definitely not going for the masters now. I’m so done with that shiii. Thanks for saving me 2-3 years 😂😂

[@junioraos4074]

That drawing is good to outline the first day of coding. But just the first one.😂

[@eggmeister6641]

Damn. He learned ERD's in his masters while I learned them in 1st year.

[@ProSkateMs]

What master is that? I did that first year of collague, its easy af

[@MisterDevel]

They don't even humour me with the "oh" I just get "ok"

[@eprokluvee]

Be honest. You don’t talk to women.

[@Michael-Martell]

A lot of work with no results. We call that modern software engineering. Spoken like a true master!

[@natescode]

My manager LOVES UML. He makes 30 people spend an hour every week learning it.

[@426F6F]

The "ooohh" at the end after the punchline 😭😭😭

[@beest_]

Only useful if others must work with your software (integrate). So I'd argue the flow and control diagrams are indeed essential work . Source: Modern Software Engineer 😅

[@someguy9440]

savage - lol --former architect in the 90s

[@seriouslyWeird]

Nah, uml are only unimportant a tiny side credit fraction in computer science. Algorithm design, formal languages and automata, and complexity analtsis are what you actually master

[@sleepyelk5955]

best description ever 😂 not only, that it produces nothing, it must most likely changed completely, becausnit does not work in the wild and you see the problems only, when you actually implement it ...

[@volpir4672]

Dr Disrespect having to code his own streaming platform now?

[@Creezusz]

Only thing I use is a flowchart and notes of what classes I might need.

[@treyjennings0915]

It means you get a piece of paper and no job because entry level positions want 2-5 years of experience. Kids, teach yourself if you're interested. Its free.

[@marcotroster8247]

Isn't it funny that academia should advocate for bottom-up designs because it's an actual empirical research methodology on finding out what works to solve the problem at hand. Instead they teach you this waterfall top-down thinking process of drawing tons of useless boxes. It's kind of hilarious.

[@driedpotatoes]

I have a masters in UML

[@darkquaesar2460]

the rizz master

[@kipchickensout]

oh yeah, in practice in 6 years only seen once and it wasn't a clear type of UML diagram, it was a mixed bag of different non-standard things drawn to make things visual but still items from UML

[@nanotech2080]

Dunno, was taught this in the very first semester when doing bachelors

[@parzival123]

i love how he describe like its little kids stuff and its totally useless

[@OliveLC]

I love UML diagrams

[@SEOdev]

I only have my Bachelors in software engineering but, yep.

[@SaiKrishnaDubagunta]

This is such a troll, but also very true. Also something a .5x engineer would do, like myself, instead of mental model things. In a very weird spot rn. Don't feel comfortable at all. Hashtag Feeling attacked.

[@conorkamperman957]

Me in a computer science masters drawing shapes and adding fields 😂😂😂

[@denzilv]

👏🏽 U 👏🏽 M 👏🏽 L 👏🏽

[@conundrum2u]

that "master's" work, I did in associates. so...

[@rudnam]

i really hated doing those diagrams

[@kitsone4222]

Prime going panty dropper mode :kekw:

[@danieltumaini7037]

"creates ALOT of work and NO results" LMAO

[@christophfischer2773]

That's why you study CS and never make use of it.

[@rafaborowczyk5744]

As a current master's in CS: HAHAHAHAHAHA, Truuuuuuuuuu

[@waishnavdeore]

Prime looking like mihawk

[@kobeneilson6717]

First date

[@hellboyelite]

YOUR EYES ARE SCINITLIATING

[@skilz8098]

Just leave it Prime to tell it how it is!

[@alyxgurr755]

-What would that create? My man rh almost said NOTHING

[@me-low-key]

bro knows too much he might as well take that Masters degree, you ve been UMLed

[@tedchirvasiu]

Is this how Prime picked up his wife?