Modulation 'Masterclass'

[@CinematicLaboratory]

I finally figured out how TZFM works, thanks to mr. Jason Lim from Instruo. You need to see it happen to understand it. I am going to revisit the subject in a few weeks. It's actually very simple as a technique, but not so simple to make it happen in a patch. When a VCO goes through zero, a frequency - let's say 440 Hz - drops all the way to 0 Hz, and then flips to negative 440 Hz where the waveform is inverted. Then it goes all the way up to positive 440 Hz again, crossing 0 Hz. So it's not just inversion, it moves the pitch all the way down, stalling the VCO in between. In analog, the TZFM principal sticks to a fixed frequency, but the modulator will change pitch while it moves 'through zero' with different speeds. So the traditional roles of principal VCO and modulating VCO are swapped (in analog). Digital VCO's can do the math internally and can remain principal/carrier. I'll keep you posted and make some cool graphics again.

[@malwida1022]

How on earth are you churning out these deep videos in this frequency lately? Every day another gem!

[@RedMeansRecording]

Good video idea and execution

[@_grossy]

Love this masterclass style video - more please!

[@CinematicLaboratory]

About what :)?

[@KenSwanson-p4i]

That collection of sound, at the end .. is especially ear pleasing.

[@CinematicLaboratory]

You mean the Serge patch. Yeah, what can I say... Guilty pleasure indeed.

[@hoofjaw]

I think maybe you can patch TZFM with a non-TZFM oscillator (and some other modules). Might this work? Take an output (the sine wave if we are keeping it traditional) from what you are going to use as your 'carrier', mult it and invert one copy. Patch the non-inverted copy (from the mult) and the inverted copy to the inputs of a voltage controlled 2 to 1 switch (you'd want a switch that switches momentarily according to gate signals - so not set to latching if it had that option). The output of the switch is what you will be monitoring. Now take the output of your 'modulator' oscillator and mult that. Patch one copy to the LFM input of your 'carrier'. Patch another copy to the signal input of a comparator. Set the comparator threshold to 0V. Patch the comparator out to the switch's CV input. Ideally, you would have the non-inverted carrier output side of the switch active when the comparator output was 'on', but it doesn't really matter, I don't think (it would only be like inverting your modulator signal in a normal TZFM patch). If you don't have a VC switch a couple of VCAs (and a mixer) could be used (you'd need to also invert and offset (or NOT) the comparator out to control (the second) one of the VCAs). I'm not sure if perhaps you might need to be also inverting the modulator at the same time as the switch switches to the inverted carrier out if so you'd need another switch and a bit more multing. And it probably still won't work!

[@hoofjaw]

I have looked into this a bit more and that wouldn't work. It seems you can potentially patch something that might get you quite close, though it would be more invloved than my suggestion and even then it wouldn't quite work properly, unless you have an oscillator that can actually stall. Maybe with the carrier oscillator as slow as possible (and keeping it like that) and with the modulator also flipping polarity it might do something a bit like TZFM. But it wouldn't be of much use if you couldn't tune your carrier.

[@tru7hhimself]

another fun thing to try if you don't want to synch the oscillators but want a more (pitch) stable sound is to patch up a phase locked loop (or something a bit like it. it works well enough even if you just ring modulate modulator and carrier and use that to fm the modulator)

[@tgiencke]

The hard sync FM is a cool one. I am going to have to try with the Matriarch and also apply the techniques of the Digitone.

[@rolf-dieterlieb7009]

Hi, analog TZFM is possible, if 1st the carrier VCO supports it and 2nd the modulator VCO has bipolar waveforms (If not, try to invert it 🙂). Examples for analog TZFM-VCOs I have good experience with are Joranalogue Generate 3, Patching Panda Operat or Shakmat Banshee Reach. However, those do not sound like a digital Yamaha TZFM. I discussed the reason once with Dieter Doepfer who explained, that the influence of the amplitude of the modulator in Yamaha TZFM is much larger (around 8 times!) on the carrier than usually possible in analog circuits. By the way, with small amplitude amounts in LinFM the signal freq. is kept, because the mean of the positive and negative lin FM is still the original frequency. This is independent of the possibility of TZFM. If the negative lin FM effect reaches 0 Hz a non TZFM VCO would stop, a TZFM VcO will be able to restart with increasing frequency but different sign of the amplitude. In this case the mean of the freq is no longer the original frequency unless this is set to 0Hz (hence the other commentary on Neoni). As I find too long commentary boring, I will stop here. If you are interested in further technical details or PM matters, please feel free to contact me directly...

[@jonaseggen2230]

For anyone with two analogue filters, using the resonance on one filter to modulate fm input of the other is fun.

[@electricdawn2258]

You need a VCO capable of Through Zero FM. All it means is, that you can modulate a VCO so it STANDS STILL, effectively producing DC voltage at 0Hz. You can also "negatively" modulate it, but all that this means is, the further negative you get, the more the frequency ramps up, just like when you go positive.

[@lesynthlofi]

Ace video, as usual! 🔥 Never heard of Zing modulation! Will try later today on my Matriarch. BTW, I think for Through-Zero to work, the carrier oscillator needs to have the ability to interpret negative values; if it’s not built-in, you can’t patch it. (I think you said that in your video already, mind you. Must be my mind doing some TZFM on my cells…)

[@CinematicLaboratory]

Indeed it must be done in the VCO so with my WTFM I could only control the modulator. It was a lot of fun to do, probably more fun than just patching an TZFM input. And something very interesting came out :).

[@quantickjumps]

TZFM on the Rubicon 2: "Turn on the LOCK switch (which sets Rubicon2 to a perfectly symmetrical and pitch-corrected state) and listen to the same Triangle Wave output - the sound you now hear is TZFM"

[@CinematicLaboratory]

Thanks! I've read about it but I can't give it a try because I don't have a Rubicon2. It's super cool to read about all these new ideas, insights and workarounds :).

[@studio48nl]

With TZFM the carrier and modulator swap. The modulator needs 1v/oct in, while the carrier should be set to 'dead zero'. At least this is for the Doepfer A-110-4. Jason has a very good explanation with the Instruo Neoni!

[@CinematicLaboratory]

It doesn't sound very logical to me to be honest. Like on the Godspeed, there's a TZFM in so it has no control over the pitch of the modulator, only it's own pitch. It remains a mystery to me :).

[@studio48nl]

​@@CinematicLaboratory depends on the TZFM implementation: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ioClgIZto6mbnM0si=uMizvIujWUde6vxX#t=240s The 'dead point' will make it TZFM on the A-110-4 .

[@studio48nl]

Jason explains the modulator/carrier role swap best in this Neoni video at 1h12m: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oZykkpqrlpiBhJYsi=UmiQAJ9hK-6iazz6#t=4320

[@studio48nl]

​​​@@CinematicLaboratorythe modulator is the osc that goes into the (L)TZFM cv. You control the pitch of the modulator osc now. It was Jason's video when I had the aha! moment.

[@CinematicLaboratory]

@@studio48nl I checked Jason's video and I am still not sure. I checked Godspeed NEW with 1V/OCT on the modulator and it sounds useless when roles are reversed. I've been looking around and saw that Brenso doesn't flip roles either. Principal stays principal and modulator stays modulator. Same for the Furthrrrr Generator, where the principal/carrier gets the digital Trhu-Zero Core chip and the modulator stays analog. I am not sure about Neoni's approach, but it feels specific to Neoni and I don't think it applies to digital VCO's. DivKid did a video about the Dannysound EN129 which also does analog TZFM and the modulator (Cali OSC) gets pitch. Que??? kzbin.info/www/bejne/hJC0k3SHe6empas. As I always say, I know nothing. That's always easy to remember.

[@arpmoog]

P. Blue Ribbon pixie dust!

[@goonfish]

Which module were you using for that master reverb throughout?! 🤤 As usual, I left with a slightly heavier brain and some new patch inspiration! Lovely tones in this one, especially the softer-sounding ones.

[@CinematicLaboratory]

When I don't have FX in a case, I use the free Raum and/or Replika VST's from Native Instruments in my DAW after recording the modular case.

[@TetsuoNoiseBox]

Master chef

[@bobphillips2341]

:)

[@isaacc7]

So why do you consider Serge a guilty pleasure? Do you have naughty thoughts while using it?lol

[@CinematicLaboratory]

Guilty pleasures are more in the range of a big bowl of icecream while you're on a diet. Or chocolate. I am currently cutting down on buying new modules and then I got myself nearly the whole Serge eurorack catalog. Guilty? No. Pleasure? Absolutely.

[@isaacc7]

@@CinematicLaboratory I desperately want the new vc reseq but the price makes me cry. That and the Medusa would make a spectacular panel. I’m convinced that 4u is the way to go, I love my Voltron 6 panel, but man, the price does hurt.

[@CinematicLaboratory]

@@isaacc7 I hope Medusa and VCFX also come to Euro and I am planning to get the VC RES EQ since RES EQ is already a dream. Compared to 4U, eurorack is cheap. For that kind of money, I'll just wait.