MogTalk: Episode 301 - The Melee Show

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Guests: Woops, Jitter, & Wesk Alber
Discussion: Melee may be one of the most affected jobs coming in Dawntrail as it gets a new job, dragoon rework, and changes with the hitboxes. We bring on three great melee players to talk about the current state of the jobs and what we hope changes.
Rating: 10/10
ENJOYYYYYYYYYYY
Guest Socials:
Woops' Twitter: / woops
Woops' Twitch: / woops
Jitter's Twitter: / jitter07
Jitter's Twitch: / jitter
Wesk's Twitter: / weskalber
Wesk's Twitch: / weskalber
Show Socials:
MogTalk's Patreon: / mogtalk
MogTalk's Twitch: / mogtalk
Frosty's Twitter: / frostytvstream

[@wavypavy4059]

woops going on everyone's job speculation podcasts and pitching the job stone meld is very funny

[@zerozetta]

Oh shit it's WeskAlber!

[@mike2061]

Love him dearly

[@deathtothesurfacedwellers2558]

Enjoyable episode; nice to get to know Woops & Jitter and always happy to see Wesk

[@PKcrash]

WeskAlber really helped me get better as a player when it comes to learning the game. Hes awesome!

[@jonathanyuenkel8715]

Wesk is such a gift to the community. Please bring him on again!!!!

[@SniperKing-O]

Mogtalk: The Dragoon Show!

[@LforLinzee]

"Automatic Catboy Tracker" Im Crying XDD

[@BenPuckett]

When you were talking about Ten-Chi-Jin, I was like "Plz dont change it", because my favorite part of the last tier was executing my burst window properly during SC1 and SC2, by moving Ten-Chi-Jin around so I could move properly for the makes. Job really does feel complete IMO

[@davidbernardino8109]

It really does. Love ninja right now. I don't really main any job in this game since you can play anything, but I'd say I enjoy ninja the most as a dps.

[@BenPuckett]

@@davidbernardino8109 it seems just super counter intuitive to me, asking for job complexity and then being upset that ninja can't move during Ten Chi Jin, that is something more complex that you do have to actively plan around.

[@BenPuckett]

Oh hey it's that one boss from P8S!

[@adribones]

The Guide-master approaches… it’s Wesk!

[@loganandrepont1437]

I miss the weave heavy nature at times with SHB summoner.

[@Snowinmyears]

The amount of monk slander from Frosty... smh xD

[@paullutze636]

As a melee player I’ve been looking forward to this 💯

[@1Mrstephen]

I really wish everyone had a camera.. helps connect with them a bit more.

[@light6713]

they probably want to keep their privacy cant blame them

[@1Mrstephen]

@@light6713 you know privacy is out the window when your phone is listening to you even when it’s off. A little bit of research and you could find their IG, FB TT and whatever else they have. A little more and you find their address and everything else.

[@kennys6288]

If they wanna go the route of SMN and RPR for every job they need to A. Actually make them fun and interesting to play. B. Actually put some efforts into encounter design because let’s be real, EW wasn’t it. Yes there were some good encounters but all in all it was extremely inconsistent. In regards to SMN and RPR, every person that I raided with that played those jobs either switched out of them or at least made it clear how painfully boring they were.

[@nodot17]

SMN when the dopamine from cool summons where's off #Justice4Egis

[@Gambito32x]

i agree with the mention that range can and should be able to do the mechanics melees would be set to do in a typical comp set up in pf but that doesn't reflect the reality a lot times. Sometimes the fact that theres an "acting melee" makes for much longer prog or a reprog that otherwise shouldn't happen in pf Now am i saying this is a reason why we should force double melee? Not really. However it does happen a lot and i can see why people wouldn't want any "acting melees" bc of situations like this

[@samhoppy5527]

I see WeskAlber I watch 😁

[@pyrrhos8175]

Definitely agree with woops that SMN and RPR are fine foundations to build upon down the road and shouldn't be as harshly critiqued as they are (granted job potency in legacy content especially Ultimate is another story of a bigger issue so story for another time). That being said, I do also think each role needs a job for the hyper optimization nerds out there. BLM is probably the face of this with MNK and AST not far behind, but also bumping up say a BRD rework and taking your pick between GNB or DRK for the other roles too so every role has a job for someone to really break down fight timers to get that self expression.

[@nodot17]

The issue is we don't have super fun and engaging 8.0 RPR and SMN We have 6.0 RPR and SMN which are a little bare bones especially under lvl 90

[@SmallerRidley]

I appreciate the need to keep an amount of gauge available when some cooldown comes up as a form of skill expression (e.g. bunshin and kaiten), but it's always either been inconsequential or strictly rigid when it happens.

[@LightsabreSMGN]

Ok, one the talk about Haste. If we had SkS and SpS swapped to Haste that can change Ability cooldowns that would open up so many gearing potential changes

[@zedorian6547]

Mr Happy just recently spoke about why that exact issue would be a terrible idea for the game as a whole.

[@MeowMita]

As a system change i wish the boss rear quadrant had a more definied hitbox line instead of being completely open.

[@reprised2573]

feint and addle no longer have split % differences between physical and magical damage, they're all a 10% reduction for 10 secs

[@midorixiv]

I feel the whole 'relearning the job every expansion' thing with monk, after sticking with the job through sb and shb I was just too tired and salty at the changes to relearn it yet again for EW and went to the retirement melee with rpr lol. Currently just hoping viper is fun and high APM because I miss jobs that aren't hard focused on burst windows EDIT: they should make it so that kassatsu huton lets you give huton to party members

[@TheIrishAurum]

1:24:40 then why have positionals at all at that point? if theyre only gonna matter when the boss is just essentially standing there from DPS PoV theres no skill expression there.

[@usoxmob1]

I feel at home here 😅

[@jude4195]

I think it will be interesting to bring back this group pls a few other melees than DRG after media tour

[@MogTalk]

Not a bad idea

[@rayc1602]

I'm not playing rn and part of that is becaused they killed my job. Please don't SMNify anything else. It's mind-numbing.

[@jorjavggg]

I would have liked drak here to tlak about mnk and sam

[@coco_milktv]

wesk the goat

[@MeowMita]

Incredibly based red mage refusing to rez lmao

[@C.Cer.]

I just want my Hissatsu: Kaiten back .__.; Kaiten didn't matter on paper? but how it feels? mattered a lot more to me then having 1/5th of my gameplay purely being Shinten spamming... and Kyuten spamming in all mob-mowing which is no where near as satisfying to me no more.

[@1Mrstephen]

Drg is my least fav… 😢 give it a wyvern pet and I’d flip for sure!

[@C.Cer.]

Samurai in its current state is ez. Fuse Shoha 1&2 / Guren & Senei / Ikishoten & Ogi Namikiri buttons/skills. Bring back Hissatsu: Kaiten, and something more for Kenki spending. QOL changes: Meditate refresh ( not generate ) Fuka / Fugetsu Buffs & new Shoha lowered cooldown or no Cooldown for feels good weave that's it

[@joelrojas5968]

Eww no tp return please

[@salaattikastike9124]

MNK player here, a lot of takes that I disagree with but most of it comes down to personal opinion so I won't be going into it. Two things I want to say though. You talked a bunch about the job's difficulty. I'll try to avoid calling it easy or hard as that can be pretty subjective. But EW changes made the job very appealing and accessible for prog which is a pretty important niche in this game. Most of the other melees have job mechanics they have to consider on a fight by fight basis: SAM casting, DRG jumps, RPR casting and a ton of damage tied to gauge which is all lost if you die (you will die in prog), even NIN which many ppl consider the strongest prog job has to find a place for TCJ. MNK can move freely while being a decent dance partner and having a very simple recovery. Having previous constraints like constant positionals removed, the only challenge in MNK is rotation, and you don't really consciously think about your rotation that much once you reach a certain level of play. Dragon Kick rotation was a meme spreadsheet made by a very skilled and experienced melee/monk player Mortred Jaz when we MNKs were a bit upset about the EW changes. It was absolutely NOT just pressing dragon kick, it uses the other buttons as well and has very specific ways to handle burst windows which vary more and require more thought than your normal even/odd windows do. It also required a very specific killtime and absolutely bonkers crit rng to parse as well as it did and it kind of falls apart in fights with downtime or different killtimes. If you know what you are doing, filler dragon kicks can be used at places for various reasons, but it is not necessarily something you want to or need to consider as a beginner MNK. If you just press dragon kick you lose more or less half of your damage, and if you wanted to do WHM damage by pressing one button it would probably be better to just play WHM.

[@merrickmorgan6890]

The job stone melding is cool but BLM can have 2 different bis lists how do you reconcile that?