Famous People Are Weird

[@oyskal]

Ludwig has mastered the art of opening the video by talking without moving

[@Suspect333]

omg i thought my pc froze

[@Azura2242]

@@Dj07-i3uokay I wont

[@LoveIyserene]

@@Dj07-i3uI can’t wait

[@m_ess101]

Fr

[@allcontentuser]

@@Suspect333 same

[@CarlMax001]

Ludwig is getting so good at ventriloquism it's scary

[@Cħkn]

@@Dj07-i3u no you

[@dprdenny]

@@Dj07-i3ui'm gonna kill myself before that happens

[@orangejuice4910]

@@Dj07-i3uon god please put on the shoes that scrape against your foot and leave a mark that hurts

[@UtopiaLuver]

​@@Dj07-i3u nuh uh

[@lukewarmteabag]

v-sauce ass intro

[@miss.emaline]

I feel like there is a difference between saying that you appreciate your fans but don’t love them individually, and straight up constantly telling your fans that you don’t like them. Like I don’t need to feel like an artist “loves” me in particular or anything because we don’t know each other, but I do think that it is important to acknowledge the people that support you and have made you successful

[@bruh-qk1wk]

Yes!! You said it perfectly!

[@bruh-qk1wk]

God bless!

[@bibubbletea]

This is exactly what I was thinking, like fans are obviously using “love” as a way to say appreciation. Very few fans, even the very dedicated ones, actually believe that the person they stan loves them personally (though some of them are of course too dedicated to an unhealthy degree nonetheless.)

[@a.w_.]

@@bibubbletea their appreciation and action of listening to the music is rewarded by exactly that: they get to listen to the music and have a piece of art they enjoy. They don't need the artist to suck them off for it too.

[@Tystolfo]

Idk, I really appreciate the honesty, you can't give a shit about every single individual fan, it's impossible. If an artist that you're a fan of says they don't give a shit about you, it seems harsh but it's just true and honest, if you died tomorrow they wouldn't even notice or find out, because they don't know you at all, they do not care about you. To use Bo's example, should a plumber constantly state online how much they appreciate and like their clients just because they paid for their services? Ofc not, why would they, that's ridiculous. Just because you give someone money doesn't mean they owe you their appreciation. You gave them money and you received their product, end of transaction. It's not a charity, Doja's fans didn't "make" her, she made a good product that a lot of people liked and paid for, that's how our society works in every form of business, and yet for some reason entertainers are singled out as having to appreciate their customers? Why is that?

[@pontiacgrandcam]

She’s known for searching her name on social media sites in order to respond and interact with people talking about her. It’s actually quite funny for her to tell people to get offline.

[@bigfin20]

didn't she get her start on youtube/twitter? takes one to know one I guess

[@Umadoveracommentg]

She just a clout genius n yall falling for it 😂

[@uninterestedcat8429]

​@@Umadoveracommentgmore like a cringelord

[@Fiddlewinks]

She wants the advantage of being "the one who is watching".

[@tabs5213]

@@Fiddlewinkswell said

[@allyma3]

The problem with the parasocial relationship thing is that SHE FOSTERED THEM. She has kissed her fans, she said she loves them billions of times, shes been fostering these relationships the whole time. She hasn't been like you repeatedly reminding fans "hey you don't actually love me man, you dont know me idk you etcetc." Yes, i agree, its not her job to keep people from becoming attached but the LEAST she could do is not enable the behavior and participate in it, on mass.

[@sean5364]

I’m not a fan of Doja cat but I partially agree with her on some of the things. I can’t imagine what it’s like to have a fan base and how overwhelming it can be, along with insecurity in your product. She might be going through something and this is her way of disconnecting from being a celebrity. Now of course if she wanted to disconnect she could just not respond to anyone and delete her medias but again idk what’s going on in her life. Her BF is a piece of shit though he needs to rot.

[@halloweenfan158]

@@sean5364doja has been shitty for a couple of years tho

[@41052]

⁠@@sean5364doubt it would be so bad if she didn’t make it so parasocial. Maybe she would be okay with fame if she didn’t do all what the comment said she did. All I know is she needs to get off of the internet, she doesn’t seem well.

[@bookies24k8]

@@sean5364 it's better for her to disconnect now than later, talking about your pussy all day is only gonna last so long before people get tired of it and forget about her forever.

[@Miesko1]

i thought it was en masse not on mass

[@mangoryn404]

So nice of ludwig to let mogul mail make videos again.

[@rm_steele]

​@@Dj07-i3uin all your other spam comments you tell us NOT to translate! be consistent you useless piece of rotting fruit!

[@party_dude]

​@@Dj07-i3uhope thats true

[@kami_1789]

​@@Dj07-i3ureported

[@purememes844]

@@Dj07-i3uI’ll wait

[@kjish]

@@Dj07-i3uhope it does lmao

[@Kaitlin11]

As a person that was apart of Jeff's community on twitch, his actions hurt so many women and underage girls. He would fake cry on streams and talk about his mental health being so bad just to manipulate people into supporting him. He used his position to get close to his mods and viewers and pretended to have feelings for them just to receive sex, nudes, and attention.. then would drop them for the next victim. Hes a liar, a cheater, and incredibly manipulative. The fact Doja's reaction to a large number of women coming forward saying how he treated them, is to mock them and block them is insane. So gross

[@heavenwaits]

what the fuuuuuck dude absolutely fuck that guy, i’m really sorry you had to experience that and it must be really frustrating to watch a famous artist publicly defend such a massive scumbag. hope you’re doing well!

[@ria_x_rose]

I don't listen to her music but I have to say that she needs to realise that she has massive influence with her platform. Idgaf who she dates...if she likes someone who would do those kinds of things to other women that's her own demon to fight. But she doesn't have the luxury of dating just anyone out in the public because they will automatically be put into a position of influence with her platform as well. Exposing this guy to even more people and even moding for him is literally her giving her stamp of approval for his streams to continue to grow. He's already shown to abuse this power when he had it and now he'll potentially gain it all back and some. Even if he has changed or is actively making sure not to do those things anymore, she went as far as to mock his victims because she's dating him....not only is that vile garbage human behaviour but its incredibly embarrassing for her and sends all sides of this the wrong message. Instead of denouncing it she blocks people and lashes out at her fans...yeah no wonder they're angry. She's literally supporting a known emotional abuser and sexual predator. I'm not saying she can't date him that's not my business, but she shouldn't share her influence with him after he's abused his own. Its not even just a matter of moral ethics its literally putting more women in danger of his actions.

[@bahhumbug5467]

Well she might just think they’re lying as there are a ton of clout demons out there but she’ll figure it out one day

[@galaxychar]

@@bahhumbug5467you would have to be an absolute idiot to think all of those women with their proof are lying, especially when this type of thing never happens to other twitch streamers who are innocent, including ludwig. she doesnt give a fuck that’s all.

[@cocosfilms]

i wonder if she’s being abused by him too. but it doesn’t really justify it, just could explain why she’s flipping out

[@Aerix_Bay]

Something important to note about the whole "Kittenz" thing is that Doja herself put up a poll on twitter asking her fans what they should be called, proceeded to use that, and is only now revoking it and calling them losers for using something SHE decided to introduce to them. If she never put up the poll, they wouldnt be doing that, at least not to the current extent. Small edit just to state- I have zero opinion on this, I've never listened to a Doja song in my life, just wanted to point this out since Lud didn't, please don't be aggressive. (sandrasim I see u)

[@doctorsavage1709]

Yes, Phillip DeFranco showed this proof I believe!!!!

[@cameronmason4452]

They are losers, people who stan online people in drastically parasocial relationships should get a life

[@lVideoWatcherl]

So she basically 'dictated'fan culture, but the fan culture also did not arise itself? Both are stupid.

[@nahu3lp]

probably the poll was made by her record label or manager 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@user-vq9rk6eb4d]

@@nahu3lp even so it would still make her unreasonable for just suddenly completely condescend her fans lol, whether her or her team planted the seed doesnt really matter

[@zankaa8031]

It's so funny that she's like "put the phone down and get a job" when it seems like all she does is interact with shitty people online lmfao

[@bloodworth0]

she’s already set for life lol

[@Dekolo]

Homestuck pfp.

[@Seattletyy93]

She fights with people on the internet more hours a day than a regular job 😂 Working full time throwing fits while others write and produce her music

[@itslocane412]

she's a multi millionaire and set for life, idk about you but she has all the time to spend on dumb shit

[@Botatochicken]

She also used to go on these weird online video chats with old ass white guys and encouraged their racist jokes yet she’s telling her fans they need to touch grass… the hypocrisy is insane

[@mintyyling]

cavetown made a good point by saying that he used to think the same way until he came to accept that there are different forms of love. The love a performer has for their audience would obviously be different compared to the love one has for their family/friends/significant other. Accepting that as an artist, you can love your supporters in a way that's mostly focused on gratitude for the support of one's art and being able to make a living out of it, allows you to openly receive the love your fans give while still acknowledging a safe boundary that draws the line between fan and friend.

[@theedgera2877]

Im not a big fan but I think that's exactly how it should be seen, do musicians with Doja Cat's mentality really think other famous musicians mean it on a personal level when they say they love their fans? It's pretty obvious that it means it in a different way

[@salami_tommi]

Her telling people to get off their phones and get a job while simultaneously ruining her career by constantly squaring up with random fans online is so funny

[@IcarusFrandy]

Randomly squaring up isn’t the half of it lol. She told them they were dumb as bricks if they liked her last album. She’s really a whole ass weirdo.

[@LexFerraro]

it’s the people saying “touch grass” who need it the most

[@theAlex2577]

good ole projection Classic

[@_holy__ghost]

shes not ruining her career with anything lmfao the vast majority of her listeners dont concern themselves with online drama. as long as she makes a couple radio friendly song every once in a while she's fine

[@PicoNico98]

"ruining" bro she lost nothing compared to how big she is. the amount of people that listen to her compared to the amount of people that give a shit about this in any capacity is gonna be like a drop in the bucket by the end.

[@spoof2062]

At this point im pretty sure she just doing whatever it takes to not be famous anymore because she has been openly unhappy with her career for a while

[@arrowslinger-xn3lf]

so she's based

[@ikigai7432]

Ye, that's what I'm thinking as well. As far as I know, she doesn't have any mental issues and I also feel like her actions/tweets aren't indications of someone with mental issues (not an expert so idk). Someone who has gained a lot of fame and money wouldn't just do what she's doing if they really liked it.

[@xoxocessa]

@@arrowslinger-xn3lf speak english

[@theAlex2577]

she does and she doesn't , if she really did shed turn off her phone fuck off to an island and just chill but she kinda craves the attention aswell

[@goawayimhigh]

@@xoxocessa”so she’s based” = “so she has an opinion i 100% agree with”

[@orinblank2056]

While I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with an artist or creator saying that they love their fans, it's crazy how many people think that it somehow applies to them personally. There are a lot of different types of love. If a band says "thanks for coming, we love you all" after a show, I don't take that to mean we're suddenly friends. They don't know me. It's obviously just a way of saying that they appreciate their fans for supporting them, and the love is more of a general feeling of gratitude and positive emotion towards their fans as a whole. Yet for some reason people on twitter think that it means they have free reign to get obsessive and parasocial over a total stranger

[@aniyilator]

Twitter is so scary bro, like I used to think for a while that it was just a minecraft stan thing for the most part, but this whole culture of feeling like you own some part of a content creator just because you consume whatever it is that they put out is a pretty widespread issue. It's a pretty interesting trend to see happening from a sociological standpoint

[@duresh08]

Absolutely!!! When an artist says “I love my fans” it’s not a romantic or weird parasocial thing it’s simply a show of gratitude because artists do owe their audience everything they have garnered. Going out of your way to tell your audience you don’t love them is just mean and uncalled for.

[@berlin7817]

I agree, but it aint that difficult to say "I appreciate you for listening to my music"

[@azraellie_]

@@berlin7817 She fuckin diiidddd thoooooo

[@dyamondwomack549]

​@@berlin7817no seriously she's said it before

[@OctagonalSquare]

She has a lot of good points, but I also get people being upset with how she is saying it. Her fans giver her money, but they do it because they like what she does. It isn’t ONLY her fans. If she made bad stuff, her fans wouldn’t pay for it. I think the general idea of “I don’t love y’all” is good, but if someone is like “y’all mean nothing” that may be too much

[@relevancy1123]

“Love” is a deeper emotion than people realize. Love can be many thinga. Showing appreciation is showing love. Being welcoming is showing love. Returning good intentions is showing love. I think her main issue is she doesn’t love correctly, likely because she was never taught to love correctly which most people aren’t in this era so she cant love those that support her in the way the word is meant to be expressed.

[@VixeyTeh]

Correctly...?

[@hammerstix5791]

There's a huge distinction between "I love my fans" and "I love the support my fans give me and my music". You can appreciate them without the parasocial weirdness that comes with "I love my fans".

[@OctagonalSquare]

@@relevancy1123 that’s one of the things I hate about English. So many other languages have separate words for all those things. It’s actually one of the failings of English translations of the Bible. Hebrew has multiple different words that get translated to love but are very different emotions: brotherly love, romantic love, love for family, etc.

[@eve6262_]

The initial "I don't love y'all, I don't know y'all" is fine in isolation. it's the following stuff actively mocking her fans that sucks. you can say "you're all individuals and while I appreciate the love and support you show me, I don't know you personally, that's just one aspect of you coming through" and not "y'all bitches"

[@sinfulmourning2780]

The only thing that really upsets me about this whole situation is the amount of friendly fire. I get that a ton of people for some reason get it in their heads that doja owes them, but instead of just ignoring or blocking them, her first instinct is to reply with the nastiest shit which more often than not tends to hurt her whole fan base instead

[@masonshackelford285]

Well fuck em, who cares

[@chrissyisediting369]

Had to learn it the hard way when I was a kid/teen that you really shouldn't look up or admire famous people no matter where they come from. It gets mad disappointing when you hear the most horrible thing and feeling disgusted ever liking them in the first place.

[@xXVibrantSnowXx]

Honestly, everyone should focus on themselves more than anything Famous people are just mere humans, just like us, they may have fame, but some have bad personalities just like any some non-famous people are

[@lilatune]

i became a sorta poster child for a community once, after that happened, i never see famous (small fame, big fame) the same way again, they are real people, with yk.. problems, things they did in their past, or things they didnt do. they arent perfect. people rlly dont listen or pay mind to these messages until someone THEY look up to does/gets called out for something

[@Ishl]

I mean, I think the fact that famous people make mistakes is what makes them more attractive to me. I have a deeper appreciation for their work because someone imperfect like me created it.

[@bekcha4170]

Or you can look up to them and use them as your motivation to better yourself. If they turn out to be horrible, just drop them and ignore them, move on. That’s what I did for majority of my life, it can be disappointing, but it’s not like I’m deviated over it. I just find other people to look up to. And for anyone wondering why would I even look up to celebs or smth, it’s because they are the easiest source of motivation for me to focus on myself and better myself. I get inspiration/motivation from seeing other people do thing etc., it’s very hard for me to get it other way. Doesn’t mean I blindly defend them or dedicate my life to them tho Everything in moderation

[@ikeaguy3042]

Lud, its never too late to build something good and genuine

[@veravye]

when lud tweeted the og version i genuinely couldn’t believe it wasn’t from slime 😭😭

[@MammalianCreature]

build deez

[@MammalianCreature]

@@Dj07-i3u speak American

[@xoxocessa]

@@MammalianCreature american isn't a language, chucklehead. lmao

[@kingpin08918]

i mean he's gonna have to build that kinects ferris wheel from the "chat buys stuff from amazon" stream...right? lol

[@Dinner_Roll]

Holy shit, I'm so glad Mogul Mail made this video. Way too heated arguments with angry fans on social media, denouncing parasocial relationships, even being bald. I mean until now I had no idea who Slime's role model was but now everything makes sense.

[@Plunkcown]

nah you got it the wrong way round, Doja Cat saw Slime and thought "oh my god he's just like me fr"

[@aniyilator]

​@@PlunkcownThe chances of that being true are high

[@RobotnikPlngas]

​@@PlunkcownI actually believe you.

[@lhzoz7]

What is the slime role model? I'm out of the loop tbh

[@sarah2172]

she's tweeted and said a few times that she loves her fans, so for her to turn around and be so rude and pretend people take it to mean she personally loves them individually is so weird. You can create a general boundary without dissing the people that supported you enough to make you rich and famous. Also so weird to say ily ily then act like you never said it before

[@kangbang718]

so people trying to "protect" her and controlling her life by literally bashing on the guy shes dating is now justified? she doesnt owe the people anything, sure you can like her music and personality, but to then expect things out of her like she is ur friend, SO, family member, etc is parasocial af. get a life and stop worrying about people that dont even know u exist

[@pinata111colada]

Nah she's been mad disrespectful. It's not about love, it's about how she's talking to the people who support her

[@kangbang718]

@@pinata111colada she was responding to a post that literally told her "she'd be nothing without them" who tf says that

[@pinata111colada]

@@kangbang718 lmao i just realised I misread the first comment rip. But to address what you said: there is still a minimum moral standard to not be an ass. I can agree with you that she is not our friends, but that's no reason to be so mean

[@kangbang718]

@@pinata111colada iono, freedom of speech? it goes both ways too, she didnt have to be so harsh with letting people know that they are being parasocial and acting like they are buddybuddy with doja, but at the same time, who are they to tell her how to act? shes not just an entertainer, shes also a human being with emotions and boundaries, especially strangers that try to baby her and give her advice

[@RandomSwiftie13]

You completely missed the part were she called her own music a "cash grab pop garbage" and insulted her fans for falling for it and listening to it + paying money to buy it... That's one of the BIG reasons why her fans are leaving her now.

[@MATCHLESS789]

Damn, she actually sounds based.

[@AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHs]

Didn't she say her new music would be different then make the same style lmao

[@peanuts7324]

I mean she isn’t wrong about the music

[@Mxtxloverr]

@@AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHs nah her genre is completely different now

[@AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHs]

@@Mxtxloverr i heard her new song and it sounds like say so

[@BeepirBypr]

what a unique intro to hold a pose for several seconds

[@nicholasgarcia954]

RAE Sremmurd would be proud

[@neofms]

​@@Dj07-i3uShut up

[@mastronep]

what a unique person

[@prawtism]

GothamChess moments

[@arimabz]

while speaking as well that's crazy

[@saamqri2507]

i definitely agree with doja cats sentiments about her relarionship with fans. creating that distance between you and your fans is necessary for the creator and also leads to a better community. i think the main problem is HOW she conveyed this message. unlike with ludwig or schlatt or even bo, it was very aggressive and disrespectful

[@AtomicFlounder42]

To be fair, the fans were extremely disrespectful first, and as doja said multiple times, she's not obligated to weather disrespect just cause you listen to her music. She's a person too, if they're gonna be an asshole to her, she's gonna be an asshole back, and she has every right to

[@Oldass_Deadass_dumbass_channel]

​​@@AtomicFlounder42 if a few people out of a huge group are an asshole to you, that doesn't give you a license to be an asshole to whoever the fuck you want. That is insane logic Edit: also it seems from other comments that the thing that kicked this off is people calling out the fact her boyfriend has done some really shady shit. She never cared about all the "disrespect" up until then

[@AtomicFlounder42]

@@Oldass_Deadass_dumbass_channel clearly, she's not being an asshole to the fans that aren't fucking with her. The fact that you think she is says alot. It's pretty clear that's she's just clowning on the people messing with her, as there no instances of her fucking with people when they're being nice to her. Somebody claims to be a fan, calls them selves a kitten, then hates on her man, she's gonna clown on them, and the kittenz name is just the thing she landed on. No scenarios have arisen where one of her nice fans calls themselves and kitten and she calls them out. It's the same thing as the "all men are trash" stuff. It doesn't mean all men are trash, and if youre not trash, clearly, theyre not talking about you. If he disses don't apply to you, then move along

[@asum7213]

​@AtomicFlounder42 This Mega celeb is personally @ a random person to insult them, how could that go wrong.

[@AtomicFlounder42]

@@asum7213 don't be a dick, you won't be called out for being a dick. Anyone who takes it too far, that's on them, not on Doja

[@WallahNein]

She's definitely right that noone should love or idolize her, but being kinda famous doesn't give her the right to be disrespectful to others.

[@jessc5112]

shes a stranger ppl make demands of and no one including me and you and everyone else is entitled to her being kind and grateful when she does not know any of us. youd think all of the celebrities who have had well known breakdowns bc of fame that we as a culture would understand these are people we dont know who do not personally owe any of us anything.

[@Frungle_]

Are people not being disrespectful for prying into others lives?

[@EyesDontCry]

They say dont bring a knife to a gun fight but then we complain when someone brings the knife to the knife fight? Disrespect was met with equal disrespect, and its as simple as that, she just came with better ammunition.

[@NeshaBoo21]

​@@Frungle_she blocked a sexual assault victim who called out her boyfriend for sexually assaulting her. People calling her out for that are not in the wrong to

[@YungH00n]

@@NeshaBoo21 its crazy that a bunch of ppl in the replies to comments are not even mentioning this part lmao it's so obvious he's guilty in SOME way by blocking ppl and not even acknowledging it

[@vulpixelful]

It's funny how she implies that music fans have nothing going on when music is what helps people get through all the stuff they have going on

[@pablojams5152]

“Get your hand out of the haystack” has got to be one of the single best pieces of advice for people who are chronically online or always looking for trouble/drama in everyday situations

[@gummy3584]

0:07 blud thinks hes vsauce 💀

[@AndreggvilJammer]

Let’s not forget that Doja Cat has asked her fans what they should be called in a poll, where “Kittens/Kittenz” was one of the answers she herself had put, and had then proceeded to use that to refer to her fans. Let’s also not forget that she, completely unprompted, said that fans “fell for” her “cash grab” albums - her two most popular ones that put her on the map, mind you - then went on to say in the same breath: “Now, I can go disappear somewhere and touch grass with my loved ones on an island while y’all weep for mediocre pop”. There is some crazy hypocrisy here, because she was the one who put out those cash grab albums with the intent to… well, grab people’s cash. While she has all the right to hate that music she had put out, to be dissing the intelligence and tastes of your supporters from an ivory tower that would not have otherwise been affordable without them buying those “cash grab albums” and therefore putting her in said ivory tower just seems incredibly tone-deaf and conveys little to no self-awareness. Yes, Doja Cat did work hard to get to where she is. And yes, some of her fans are way too parasocial and have no business meddling. But it’s true that this is not the first time she’s lambasted her supporters. It’s also true that she’s historically displayed a ton of hypocrisy and that her community has given her the benefit of the doubt many times over. She does not deserve to have her entire life and every private matter made public, but to completely disregard very public warnings about your boyfriend being a groomer, still go about hanging out with incels, and almost constantly being very open and explicit about how she dislikes her fans and doesn’t love them just so she can continue being her “brutally honest” self also isn’t really defensible anymore. Not when these issues have only compounded over a mere few years since her initial hit of success.

[@lilytheflower-4004]

You said what I was thinking perfectly

[@connermcintosh4322]

He was in the DM’s of multiple 14 year olds. For context Jenna Marbles found out and Jenna and Julien cut him off permanently.

[@doctorsavage1709]

!!!!!

[@snide0]

proof?

[@AllCloudsAreBunnies]

I’d also like to see proof. Also how is saying J&J cutting him off context? Context for what exactly? I’m only asking bc I’m curious and hope you have more stuff to add :v

[@megandink]

I was there during this time. I used to mod for him unfortunately haha. It's true. Jenna and Julien (and more streamers that would also play with him regularly on stream) had to go on stream & say they don't want to associate themselves with him anymore. It was pretty mindblowing just how many girls came forward in our lil discord group & snapchat group considering he was averaging about about 200 viewers.

[@Flanneryschickens]

What a creep 😬 I can only hope he gets better so no more girls are ever put at risk like that from him

[@abdulwilliams9995]

Seems she wants to have her cake and eat it too. She wants to maintain a parasocial relationship with her fans, but would shame them from having the same thing with her. I fully agree with the conclusionary statement. Get off the phone girl 😂

[@ananniesday]

Defending and dating a horrible person makes you terrible as well.

[@previll]

Or a forgiving one. Depends on the context.

[@kaitlynblount7683]

I was one of J. Cyrus's subs and pretty loyal viewers until everything happened. I trust the people that spoke about their experiences with him, they had nothing to gain. He wasnt dating Doja back then, he was a mid Twitch streamer but he had a lot of powerful friends and a lot of loyal fans.. it was incredibly brave to speak out. No one was trying to destroy his life or make shit up. He fucked up and wanted to blame everything on mental illness and sex addiction. You talk about the parasocial relationship shit, well he took advantage of it and actively fucked with people from his community. This man was in so many girls inboxes, and these girls, whether they were mods or just subs whatever, at the end of the day they were fans and he absolutely abused his power.

[@Willy_Warmer]

I mean was he actually taking advantage or was it appearing that way from the girl's points of views?

[@gaslightgatekeepgirlboss6321]

​@@Willy_Warmer Allegedly: Some of those girls were minors- whether it was advantageous or not from their point of view is completely irrelevant in the eyes of the law because approaching minors with sexual intent is illegal no matter way it's cut unless all of the fan he approached were in a state where the age of consent ranges lower. Also, kind of crass to ask if they just "think" they were being manipulated, don't you think? (allegedly) young girls got hurt in a far more damaging way than just heart break.

[@anapple.4338]

Any screenshots or evidence of the messages or is it just the apology

[@Flanneryschickens]

​. his apology talks about how he manipulated people to get sex and then would drop them despite knowing how their admiration affected their feelings and how they wanted more. Basically just being a crappy person and using people in a toxic way

[@kaitlynblount7683]

@@anapple.4338 I mean yeah, there were Twitter threads of screenshots. People didn't just drop their friend because some girls had their feelings hurt. There was plenty of proof of what he was doing.

[@yellows8013]

Okay, I'll be the one to ask the question. How did Ludwig talk without moving his mouth?

[@CommunalPissRug]

​@@Dj07-i3uthat's the goal dearest bot

[@gregschneider6397]

That’s not Ludwig, that’s mogul mail

[@wumbojet]

Who's Ludwig? This is Mogul Mail

[@kerobeep]

@@Dj07-i3ufinally!!!

[@dfloriza]

Kegels

[@unclebary1866]

People take the word love to serious in this context. I wouldnt say I love a creator but people who do probably arent implying that they love the creator like they do their family but rather appreciate the content they provide and love said content. Just as a creator should appreciate their fans and love making money doing it.

[@alexanderlea2293]

^^^ I love Post Malone, but I love him like I love chicken parm, not like I love my mother.

[@Freya_Blue]

Yep, almost everyone who says this means they love a creator the same as when they say they love a book, movie, game, toy, painting, or even a teacher. It's just used as another way to say it's/they're your favorite.

[@ethanmarino931]

I legit didn’t even think of this and it’s so true!

[@jethex3542]

thats the only reasonable kinda love here. Anything beyond, you will only hurt yourself or bother the creator.

[@bayleev7494]

idk, it kinda doesn't make sense no matter which way you slice it. let's say you're a creator with a sizeable fanbase, and you say you love them. that can mean either that you love them in a personal way, making it weird because of parasocial stuff; or it can mean you love them in an impersonal way, so you only love them for what they are giving you, which is also kinda weird.

[@Shawshook]

That “love you” at the end really caught me off guard, sounded an affirmation straight from your homeslice

[@javabean4383]

People can adore content creators and idols without it being parasocial. Like finding comfort in bands like Linkin Park, who's music helped millions overcome hard times and I'm sure many people have found similar comfort in Doja Cat. I also find comfort in a singer like that and even tho I'm not OBSESSED like twitter users are, I'd still be heartbroken if that creator started spewing venom at their fans like Doja is doing to hers. There's a difference between setting boundaries and being outwardly hostile. Doja seems like a very snobby and unpleasant person and I'm sorry to people who enjoyed her content

[@KeithWongTV]

I got a vsauce curiosity box ad before watching this video and then Lugwig says that at the beginning💀

[@dannysanchez3525]

I feel like there's a difference between loving your fans and appreciating that fact you have fans and it's not hard to just say that

[@quitzx1389]

I agree that its weird for people to overly love a creator. But nowadays you cant even say that you like someone's content without being called a parasocial weirdo.

[@miumoments]

literally 😭

[@shoutallpanic]

was a community member in jeffs stream back in 2018-2020 until everything came out and many of my friends were so wronged by his actions. he manipulated his stream viewers and garnered attention with tears in hopes of financial support, that was something anyone could see if they stuck around long enough. but the real issue was how he treated people behind closed doors. records have since been deleted after deactivating that twitter account with his "apology" and snapchat encourages people to not save/screenshot. it was all very deliberate in the way he scripted his abuse. hearing his name is triggering enough for someone who was just a subscriber. its unimaginable what kind of stress the victims must be facing having him be in the spotlight. seeing his face, hearing people talk about the man who unwittingly destroyed his fanbase, having to watch doja cat fall prey to his games. she'll speak truth, and sure shes not wrong that some fans get too personal, but theres genuine concern and shes just blocking people. it shows a real lack of empathy. but its her life and her decisions and its not like i was a fan of hers in the first place. just disappointing to see circulating headlines

[@Hezy]

“Let me whip out the ukulele, let me dig my own grave”. Quote hits different 💀

[@piplupdabest]

It’s never too late to build something good and genuine

[@MiraOlessao]

What did he do?

[@MoonFrogg]

I miss Jenna Marbles tons. She's definitely an important example of someone just listening to their fans because they really care about people, but then being pushed into shitty and exhausting positions because of it.

[@saifabidalbloushi]

4:36 "let me whip out my ukelele, let me dig my own grave" is a WILDD reference 🤣🤣🤣

[@yunyunnie]

my mental health isnt the best so i like watching "im not your friend" to keep myself in check

[@m_ess101]

Ludwig has super powers, 0:01

[@AshtonBetts]

0:00

[@12SlimJims]

By no means should either side attack each other. Fans are here to enjoy entertainment, and influencers from any industry enjoy the rewards from their audiences. It's a give and take situation here.

[@MsRose-ix3xq]

I think it's more of that she said that her fans got played for even buying her music in the first place. I've never liked how attached people get to celebs cuz at the end of the day it's just a person doin a Job or art. So telling people they're getting too close is fine she's just been a complete ass about it and had been shit talking the people that got her to where she's at which is shitty.

[@coreytaylor5386]

yeah, Ive seen people completely loose their shit at a celebrity start dating to the point of stalking and sending death threats so many times Ive lost count and it never becomes less disturbing that someone feels they are obligated to a stranger's body because they liked their music or acting or whatever

[@darkbustergt8085]

I hate saying that "people got her to where she's at" no tf they didn't if she sucked no one would've listened to her. She got herself to where she's at and doesn't owe anyone anything for providing a service that people continually buy. Yea she's a jerk but it's yalls fault for even trying to insert yourself into her life. Its like such a Karen thing to do idk you don't go into a fast food place and berate the employee for not kissing your ass and you don't bring up how you literally make it possible for them to earn money unless you're a karen.

[@Jessica-kw8no]

@@darkbustergt8085tell that to all the trash artists who are successful and the talented artists who aren’t. Having fans 100% gets you the success, and you don’t necessarily have to be good to get there

[@GreatPotato36]

Its crazy that Mogul Mail knows about ludwig's infamous "im not your friend" video too... what a coincidence that my two favorite content creators are finally recognizing eachother

[@frostd_morn]

"WHIP OUT THE UKULELE" SIR THAT WAS UNHINGED

[@avisays350]

the ludtriloquism in the beginning is so impressive, this man really does everything

[@ColeRodgersX]

doja pulled a classic ludwig “i am not your friend.”

[@TransNFLGirl]

But in a 13 year old KZbin shorts edge lord way.

[@PowerSynopsis]

still waiting on Ludwig to shave his head and go full-on parasocial with us

[@mrs.nightmare6289]

She should have just added a line about how she appreciates her fans and how they are important to her even if she doesnt love them.

[@theverbalasymptote8332]

I don’t think there’s exactly a wrong way to build a community as long as it isn’t overly toxic or predatory, but it’s pretty cringe to see someone backpedal or not own the community they’ve created. A Fanbase doesn’t grow from nothing. It’s a reflection of the artist’s content/actions and marketing strategy.

[@Gonzotwotimes]

I'm gonna be real, Lud. The hair is the best it's ever been. Extremely clean. Great vid.

[@logan_page]

Those first couple of seconds are me when I'm giving a press conference in the hall during my job as a powerful senator.

[@mattmanyam]

🎯

[@MrFish287]

For me when I say I love a content creator it’s not that I love the person who makes the content I just like to watch the content, if Ludwig never existed it would not affect my life, but if a family member or friend never existed then that would affect my life in a major way, people say that they love a content creator or love a specific person they don’t know, the question is do you love that person or do you love the content or what they do.

[@layabstar]

Doja tweeted a while ago essentially saying hot pink and planet her were cash grabs bashing her fans for falling for it...there's a difference between not "loving" your fans (valid) and actively shitting on them for supporting you for no reason

[@LuckyOwl360]

I think she’s choosing her abuser over her community, it’s a tale as old as time. It looks like she’s lashing out to protect her relationship. I doubt fans can impact that when close family and friends struggle to protect their loved ones, and they really shouldn’t as that IS parasocial. Let adults make their mistakes and live their lives.

[@bababooey7418]

she didnt get cancelled mainly for that lud she got cancelled for silencing the SA victims of her predator boyfriend

[@quxzzo]

@@Dj07-i3uoh no😭😭😭

[@elevenyang4874]

@@Dj07-i3unobody cares abt you

[@angelbubangel]

i think this just added to the fire but yes thats def the main reason

[@spoof2062]

Its a mix of both tbh, a lot of these stan accounts don't care about what their god does bc it doesn't concern them but now she's talking ill about them its a problem

[@the_pineapple245]

​@@Dj07-i3uI'm so scared 😱

[@UltravioletNomad]

I love that Bo Burnham bit because its mostly right, but technically the 'service' performers offer is to create connections. You'll never undertstand eachother on a personal level through the screen, but the job is to foster a community, and while fans aren't friends hopefully your community members will be with eachother.

[@a.w_.]

Musicians are not community managers, communities often come from groups of music listeners but that is not the responsibility or domain of the artist. Their job is simply to create music, not to create a safe space for likeminded listeners. Often these are created by fans for fans. They have no responsibility to ensure that their listeners have grouped in a community and have each others’ backs, that shit is 100% optional.

[@chronic_cross]

Jenna had enough and dipped. She showed who's in charge at the end of the day and I'm curious to see how many more high-profile influencers/celebrities go on their own terms and not canceled.

[@nicksurfs1]

Right but Jenna is still famous and will be for quite some time. People still try to see her in public, and still come to her house and all the other down sides of fame. If she came back she could pick up right where she left off. I think Doja is trying to self cancel in a more permanent way.

[@annee2243]

Just thought I would mention it since no one is talking about it and since you brought up Jenna but Jenna and Jcyrus used to be superrrrr good friends! I was a huge fan of the Jenna and Julien (her now husband’s) twitch channel back in 2019 and they played with Jcyrus like every other day! Once all of these accusation about his weird and gross behavior came out (some overlapping Jenna fans were actually victims of Jcyrus’ behavior) they dropped Jcyrus out of their life and never spoke to him again. So you can imagine my surprise when the first time I see his face is over 4 years later as Doja Cats new boyfriend. Just had to share this cause I have no one to talk to about this! 😅

[@aniyilator]

​@@nicksurfs1Definitely seems like she doesn't want anyone thinking that she'd be her fans' bestie if they met her irl

[@aniyilator]

​@@annee2243If you take a trip down old youtube memory lane there's tons of people like that who did weird shit and got ostracized by other creators (on a way smaller scale though)

[@carnuatus]

Did she? She finally took an our at an opportune time. She clearly wasn't happy and wanted to bounce for a while but she kept her fanbase happy. People also like to act like she had the best apology or whatever when it felt very disingenuous and she made excuses for a lot of her behaviors but that's my take.

[@imjoeim]

3:52 'Netflix will chill' lol

[@cacophonousantiquarian8803]

What you *could* say is I don't love you all personally, but I do appreciate you and your support.

[@AnonymousC14]

That's probably the most mature thing you can say in this context

[@DelgaDude]

Saying u don't love your fans as individuals is more than fine but we all know saying u "love" your fans is talking about people supporting u and liking whatever u do/create.

[@hamchurger4566]

But weirdos take that too far

[@DelgaDude]

@@hamchurger4566 Sure? But u can say that instead of coming out and saying u don't love your fans.

[@muxi9541]

@@DelgaDude its not love, its appreciation. How can u love someone u dont know? she is just being real and sincere

[@DelgaDude]

@@muxi9541 If u think love can only mean romantic love idk what to tell u. Love in the context of "I love my fans" does indeed mean appreciate.

[@hamchurger4566]

@@DelgaDude no she cant. Because weirdos take that too far. How many stalkers would it take for you to realise this?

[@Omiiee]

It wont affect her listening as much possibly, but it'll affect any sponsors and may have future features avoid her. Also, fans are usually the ones that end up buying tickets not the passive listeners. It wont destroy her, but it'll cause a noticeable dent in terms of lack/reduction of sponsors and free marketing that fan groups provide. Also, i feel like she's prolly doing this to promote her new album lol

[@NamuIsIdle]

i mean a good example that comes to mind for this (remembering from the yard ep) ia JSchlatt... Schlatt through his early career got lots of fans, and equal number of these "parasocial stans", which he didnt really want or care for... so he personally said that he grew out his beard and put on weight to look less like a twink, thus eliminating some of his stan-dom... i think Doja in a similar sense just wants to eliminate some of her rabid standom, coz they must be getting in the way of her actual life... her dating someone (even tho the person might be bad) is none of their concern... if their morals dont align with hers, just stop watching her/listening to her songs... i definitely think parasocial stans are at fault her, and Doja is kinda based.

[@tarttizzle]

This video just goes to show why I love Ludwig. Like I seriously couldn't live without him. These videos are Why I wakeup in the morning, and why I haven't spoken to any family or friends in years. ❤️

[@danejr9785]

Me too i love no one in the world but Ludwig

[@pepsusser]

Honestly same. I pray to Ludwig every morning and sing to Ludwig every night. I've developed a Ludwiggian alphabet to fully express myself in form of Ludwig Slime. Ludwig is my best friend, my dad, my mum. Ludwig is all that I wanted and everything I ever needed. Ludwig

[@Perishade]

He doesn’t love you

[@danejr9785]

@@Perishade its a joke pal

[@tarttizzle]

@Perishade yes he does, he posts YT videos for me all the time.

[@249aaa]

when lud started off the video w a rhetorical question i thought he was gonna start playing the vsauce bg music lmao

[@autoimmunedefficiencysyndrome]

Tragic how slime's friend died in that motorbike accident. Glad to see Mogul mail doing well 😊

[@hastyscorpion]

Holy crap Lud. That was such a great analogy at the end. Every once in a while you come up with a gem.

[@imabosssorta1923]

There are artists like Doja who seemingly crap on their fans any chance they get and shame them. Then there are artists like Nicki Minaj who will make sure her fans are fed and hydrated and yelling at them to stay in school and get an education. You don't have to EXPRESS your love for them by saying "I love my fans". Just be considerate to the people who have supported you throughout your career.

[@JadeDiamonds]

Exactly

[@Nidlt]

Everyone saying Ludwig is getting good at ventriloquism. This isnt Ludwig, its Mogul Mail

[@CateRegister-dx7wv]

“Let me whip out the ukulele💀”

[@WalterWhite-tf3ye]

0:13 bro became vsauce

[@ImJophis]

i loved when ludwig spoke telepathically to me. it made me feel warm. it made me feel loved.

[@babyinvasion]

Time to hit the Luddy

[@WesternZephyr]

I think being rich and successful has gone to her head and made her lose touch with reality just like it always happens with celebs or anyone that gets mildly famous. It's just that she's spewing her bs all over her hardcore fans personally because she also happens to be chronically online herself lmao. Where on earth are her pr people, you know? It's too bad she went from being chill and cool to now dating a lying, manipulative pedo.

[@patar00]

the god damn opening, true ventriloquist

[@sirdavid8650]

0:57 good for her for saying that. No one told you that you had to listen to her music. At face value its mostly symbiotic, we listen to ur song for free and u get paid

[@Hiimken123]

Crazy how ludwig and Mogul Mail both changed their backgrounds. Hope we get the mogul mail x ludwig collab soon!

[@awesomecarlito1452]

The video freezing at the start made me chuckle

[@thebeerwaisnetwork8024]

Bold of Mr. Mail to assume that we have a vested interest in going outside and interacting with people.

[@SeanSMST]

I actually think more celebs should do this for safety and privacy. I think that if celebs said this as blunt as Doja, a lot of stans but also stalkers and creeps would leave too. Not all of course, but it would for sure get rid of the majority of those who would consider stalking and being creepy. Saying you don't love your fans would definitely hit deep to those creeps and hopefully get them to reevaluate their lives.

[@miizukiiis]

I feel like “I love you Ludwig” and “I love watching you Ludwig” is two separate ways of thinking when you’re a viewer idk

[@הראלנח-ב4פ]

0:57 "I've been said" english major btw

[@SeraphimCramer]

At this point, Doja Cat's whole deal just... confuses me to no end, but I think it's pretty safe to say that she does _not_ enjoy being famous at all.

[@Charziken]

Ludwig, your ventriloquism skills are unmatched.

[@mmmwhatchasayyyyy2021]

"eat well today! :)" Me: *continues shoveling dry cinnamon toast crunch down my gullet*

[@goromajima7677]

You can love someone’s content, you can respect the persona that they put on for camera, but for me- that’s about it.

[@pedrostormrage]

0:05 I feel it's possible to be grateful for your fans' support while at the same time asking to be respected and disencouraging possessive/obsessive behavior. And yes, while it's harder for a content creator to love their fans (since they don't know them personally), it's absolutely possible for the fans to actually love a creator, especially if they feel they know who the creator is as a person (because of their attitudes, thoughts, and so on). It's fine to want to be respected and set boundaries, but dismissing your fans' feelings is disrespecting them (on the top of being ungrateful with the people who support you). As one of my favorite quotes from the Little Prince goes, "You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed".

[@colebevans8939]

Rogan has talked about this a lot. The fact he has thousands and thousands of hours of content where he has shared most of his life, his interests and feelings. People genuinely get to know a lot about him and think of him as one of their friends, but as he said if you approach him at an airport or something he knows nothing about you. Your a random creepy stranger. It’s not that he doesn’t want to be nice and talk to you or whatever but he physically can’t talk to the thousands of people a day that try to interact with him and he’s still human, it feels creepy and unsafe to have random dudes coming up to try and hug you or whatever.

[@lillb643]

When she said to get off your phone, and get a job and help your parents with the house -i felt that 😂😂

[@mr.lampost3307]

0:30 at least he’s honest

[@nagol37]

Blud is speaking telepathically at the start

[@PerpetuallyTiredMillennial]

While yes, parasocial relationships need to be kept in check, it is important for any person or organization to remember they are kept alive by fans. If everyone decides they don't like someone or something anymore, that person or org is toast. Always be humble.

[@cosmic3829]

I don’t think Doja Cat is falling cause of this, trust me

[@heinoussage]

An entertainer is nothing without an audience, if you disrespect that audience enough, they will go somewhere else to be entertained

[@Grexsome]

Right but if the audience has gotten entitled and is acting as though they should have some source of power of their creator, they were never supporting the creator in the first place, they were supporting their own need for attention and ego

[@zankthegreat4291]

Doesn’t she make music? Musicians aren’t the same as KZbinrs. People that listen to Kanye still listen to kanye even after he went full nazi; and there’s a reason. They like the music they make, not their views.

[@RedTheWeeb]

​@@Grexsomeboth sides are wrong but doja cat is basically being hypocritical and ungrateful. Especially considering shes in the music industry?? The easiest industry to fall out of relevance be it shit music,doing something bad, or even just growing older and losing attractiveness. Then theres the weirdo parasocial fans who are using a name she has actually used for business and think they're entitled to power over her due to it

[@ecMathGeek]

A good entertainer will naturally gather an audience if they are... entertaining. An audience that expects more from an entertainer than that they be entertaining is a toxic audience. "You owe me for being your fan," the toxic audience demands. "I was doing a job. You paid me to do that job. How can I possibly owe you more than what you've paid for?" a reasonable entertainer would reply.

[@someguy867]

Rick and morty did the same thing and fell out relevance really quick

[@냉동딸기]

Celebrities of course don’t love their fans on a personal/individualistic level, but I would say that many celebrities do indeed love and care for their audience, and fans of course feel loved by the celebrity, despite not being known by them individually. DanTDM in the Dr. Trayaurus Era is a good example of this; You can tell he seems to love his audience and expresses it by making entertaining videos for them, whilst his fans see him as a role model/mentor, and their love shows through many ways, supportive comments or donations for example, and I’ve heard from a lot of them about how watching his videos helped them escape from whatever difficult situation they were in. Unfortunately, this is becoming a rarer and rarer scenario by the day.

[@sebastiancuencaperea4189]

I would've loved for him to start the video with "Hey, Vsauce here". Because it sounded just as a Vsauce intro.

[@glossykisses]

The thing with Doja is: she ain't like Bo Burnham. She WANTS you to support her, but won't give you an ounce of thankfulness. She's essentially using her fanbase for weed money and then kicking them to the curb.

[@alipheese4152]

The relationship is she makes music. You buy it. End.

[@visualsauces]

only news channel that i can fully rely on