MONBIOSIS with George Monbiot: Ep13 - Don't Look Up!

In this 2022 series of essential climate conversations George Monbiot continues to discuss and investigate the complex challenges we face in this time of climate and ecological emergency. Monbiosis brings together a diverse range of scientists, experts, activists and change makers to examine some of the most critical environmental issues of our time.
Episode 13 - Don't Look Up.
A conversation with Peter Kalmus.
Peter Kalmus is a climate scientist at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Lab. He uses satellite data and models to study the rapidly changing Earth, focusing on biodiversity forecasting, clouds, and severe weather. He has a PhD in physics from Columbia University and a BA in physics from Harvard.
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[@clivepierce1816]

As a retired atmospheric scientist, I’ve been on the same journey - though it wasn’t until retirement that I fully grasped the scale and urgency of the threats. It’s a curious fact of the academic world that we work in silos and rarely if ever look up to appreciate the bigger picture. When I finally did, I was profoundly shocked. But what I found even more disturbing was the response of other scientists and the wider public. Even amongst those who grasp the full extent of the threats, there is too often apathy and nonchalance. Denial isn’t just the preserve of denialists.

[@clairebeyond]

Nothing will change without storytelling. We have more than enough data. We need to bring it down to the individual and relate how Climate change will affect everyone's life with tangible examples.

[@brianwheeldon4643]

Totally spot on George and Peter. Im only a retired international banker and uni lecturer and I've known this stuff since the 1990s. I've known and equally and more importantly Felt this stuff sporadically since the 1990s, and increasingly it's been permanently etched into my being since the early years of this century. Thanks for speaking the truth. We have to take urgent action based on the best available science now in 2022.

[@DCI-Frank-Burnside]

The great gift of Don't Look Up is that now sane people have a handy shorthand to refer to whenever the establishment shows an obfuscatory/mad/outright denial of critical climate issues.

[@TheCrimsonLupus]

Two days ago, we had the hottest temperatures ever in the UK, two whole degrees higher than anything previous. Buildings caught fire, railway lines buckled, air conditioning stopped working, people died. Two days later, there's still major climate change deniers on TV, unchallenged, nobody is talking about doing anything or making change. I cannot see what will wake people up :(

[@soleyandthefox]

Thank you so much, what an inspiring conversation. The more I learn about how we are impacting our climate, the more anxious I become and what stresses me most is that no-one really wants to talk about this! Despite knowing it and understanding it and not even questioning it we just carry on very politely as if nothing is wrong!

[@adambazso9207]

Exactly my thoughts. As Mr. Kalmus mentioned it during the conversation, even people who are aware of the real facts and are generally concerned regarding what is going to happen, even these people are blocking it out very often to be able to function normally. It is a frightening topic.

[@soleyandthefox]

@@adambazso9207 yes. I wonder how many from suffer this pressure to 'function normally' and go on with an everyday life they know is so destructive. It must have a huge impact on mental health. It is frightening and desperate, i agree.

[@atticustay1]

Definitely. There’s an emotional disconnect

[@KMETC1116]

This is a great conversation! Please have him back! It’s great to see a NASA person speak out.

[@ozychk21]

We had hundreds of thousands of people on the streets Nov 2019. Nothing happened, we were ignored #ss4c

[@LeanAndMean44]

Please promote this channel in your columns and on your website, George.

[@AsudeKucuk-cc2ju]

Some of those people who say the film did not speak to them at all are or prefer to remain unaware of the gravity of the crisis, so engrossed in the day to day dictates of the consumerism that they are wallowing in. I bet some of them did not watch the very end of the film which comes afer the credits, as impatience prevails whe you are consumed by what you consume, an end which, as Peter Kalmus aptly puts, they themselves are not immune to, but keep dismissing the very core of human existence which is all the more pronounced today: that we are so vulnerable. Thank you both for talking about this issue and remaining such warm and candid human beings in the face of colossal denial.

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

Great guest (and handsome too ^.^) Should get him on again for sure! Scientists need to learn how to bring the fire, not just the facts.

[@Quinefan]

Is that a cat emoji?

[@nottenvironmental6208]

Great chat. Interesting intellectual and practical. Very different from the name calling and threats from the fossil fuel supporters

[@michaelrch]

The discussion about sociapaths running everything is a really key one. I feel like maybe this is partly a problem of our culture being wrecked by 1980a neoliberal capitalism and the rejection of collectivism. I am gen X and I was talking today to my teenage kids today about the atmosphere of the 1980s and early 90s. It was conspicuous for a sudden celebration of excess and wealth that even as a kid, I got the sense was a break with the past. If you're British, you might remember a comedy character called "loads'a'money". He was a satire on a greedy, gaudy working class person who had made a lot of money as a plasterer. The weird thing was, as much as it was a satire (and a very patronising one in retrospect), the character was actually celebrated in the culture. People loved his crass materialism. I think it gave certain people permission to express their greed and selfishness without any feeling of social pressure or shame. It might just be me, but I think that culture is actually in retreat right now. There is a horrible strain of flaunting Internet personalities and influencers but I think many kids watching them are wise to the vacuity of it all. So maybe we can make it harder for these ruling sociopaths to operate by just rejecting the underlying neoliberal every-man-for-himself culture that they thrive in.

[@katiemottram740]

Thank you for your bravery in saying it how it is, I find the denial even more frightening than talking about the reality, so much gratitude 🙏

[@tuncalikutukcuogluen-aquas2893]

An enlightening discussion about the existential climate crisis, thank you. I found especially the part after 27. minute about the dominance of sociopaths (32%) in our suicidal economic system that became addicted to fossil fuels quite interesting. There's another problem: an organisation like state or corporation, which is made of quite normal people, can behave like a most dangerous sociopath. This problem of institutional sociopathy must be further investigated.

[@PascalHartig]

Please come back for the remaining 5 hour conversation. ♥️

[@tomdehen]

"Don't Look Up" is a powerful movie. Dr. Mindy and Kate go on a morning tv show; a scene that reminds me of the time Guy McPherson went on a similar show in New Zealand with Paul Henry. Guy rendered Paul stunned with the news of our impending demise. There is a plethora of parallels between the movie scenes and what scientists are facing when they dare to tell the truth.

[@atticustay1]

McPherson goes too far with the doom though. There is still some possibility of limiting the scale of catastrophe

[@tomdehen]

@@atticustay1 I don't know if we'll be able to limit the scale of the catastrophe, but we certainly owe it to the world's children to try. Thank you for your comment.

[@atticustay1]

I don’t understand how so many still don’t get how bad the situation is. It’s so obvious.

[@mattijsvonck8048]

great stuff George - i hope you get a bigger audience as that would be very much deserved Keep up your great work

[@dawnharvey4763]

Thank you for this great interview. Your willingness to speak up is greatly appreciated.

[@sculd9840]

Thank you so much for that interview. It is good to hear someone speaking that clear and nonchalant about earth's current situation. People might feel overwhelmed and helpless, facing sociopaths in powerful positions. I want to mention that not the few very rich and powerful people keep the system running. It is the habit of all those who "don't look up".

[@adambazso9207]

Yes, but average people are often frightened by these facts and even if they are interested in these topics, they often try to avoid them, simply because they have enough other problems and feel that the situation is extremely complex and can become overwhelming.

[@aussicat09]

By Catherine Ingham in the article “Are we heading toward extinction” and constantly in my head and heart: You may find yourself in the company of people who seem to have no awareness of the consequences we face or who don’t want to know or who might have a momentary inkling but cannot bear to face it. You may find that people become angry if you steer the conversation in the direction of planetary crisis. You may sense that you are becoming a social pariah due to what you see, even when you don’t mention it, and you may feel lonely in the company of most people you know. For you, it’s not just the elephant in the room; it’s the screaming elephant on fire in the room, and yet you feel you can rarely say its name.

[@electricsheepdream]

Thank you both so much for your courage and humanity, I wish billions could hear this discussion and be inspired to act! Look forward to hearing more… 💚

[@DrMattColborn]

Thanks for this, George. I must admit to finding psychic survival harder by the day as we move ever deeper into this crisis.

[@islgirl66]

Thank you for this important conversation. I so appreciate Peter's activism and emotion because it does make it seem so much more real (and scary). In Santa Barbara 15 museums are coming together to focus programs and exhibitions from April to September. We care and we're trying to have important local conversations. More here: www.sbmuseumsalliance.org/

[@em945]

Great work, Stacey. Hope it goes well.

[@christill]

The prevailing norms being so strong is exactly right. That’s the biggest thing. And because people are so artificially busy with life and pointless stuff, they can miss incredibly obvious changes to weather patterns that you’d immediately notice if you stopped and looked around for just a short period of time. And it’s no surprise that the sociopathic 30% get what they want because the rest of us aren’t going to stop them, and we’re too distracted anyway.

[@JugglinJellyTake01]

Moving from what you know about climate change to how it makes you feel is a hard step is a deeply uncomfortable step. I was numb when I made that initial step and could not express my feelings. Not so much 'Look Up' but 'Look In'.

[@BrysonKeenan]

This, as stated, just scratched the surface. Looking forward to a longer conversation with Peter, to include more of the science, as well as concrete advice for government(s) on crucial, immediate actions. There needs to be a nuanced alternative to the ‘net-zero by 2050’ delaying tactics.

[@mikeharrington5593]

Nate Hagens in his "Great Simplification" has a wealth of economic knowledge and tackles climate change from an energy availability & consumption perspective. Growth-greed economists & the totally inaccurate Nordhaus dogma have had far too much corrupting influence (yes that is what it is) upon the IPCC for too long. Adam Smith’s theory that market driven economics would act rationally fails spectacularly in our present era of greed-driven mega-corporations & therefore govts must now regulate their size & methodology in the greater public's interests. We are at an irrational, perhaps insane, point of global wealth inequality where the total wealth of the top 20 billionaires equals that of around half the world population. That disproportionate share of wealth has equally disproportionate impacts upon socio-economic policy worldwide, driving the wealth divide ever wider.

[@KaizenTrainingLtd]

Great conversation - thank you George and Peter xx

[@pepealexandre8815]

Thank you for this.

[@schilli.schote]

Climate Change made me don't want children and want to go back to school to get the requirements to study energy information management. I don't want to work at my company as a linux administrator anymore and make my contribution to the solution.

[@brancocote]

Thank you to both. Words don't come easily in the face of what is happening now. You both explain it so well.

[@mikeharvey9811]

I’ve been banging on about this ever since greenpeace and GMOs for 40yrs. now I except that mankind has no will to change. I haven’t flown for 30yrs, but friends and family still book their holidays and our airport is now adding another runway. I feel helpless. WE need a rebellion, and to put the sociopaths in jail. Barb

[@Quinefan]

Aviation is 2% of global emissions...

[@hasiniwanigasuriyamudiyans2744]

@@Quinefan It's the biggest impact an individual has. It's only 2% because only people from.wealthy countries fly. But people are getting richer and aviation's emissions are increasing.

[@Quinefan]

@@hasiniwanigasuriyamudiyans2744 Yes, but other sectors' emissions are also increasing for the same reason. And yes it's an individual's biggest direct impact - which is why it's extremely important that we ditch this inane way of thinking about it. What that shows is that the importance of political action far outweighs the importance of any individual change. (It's not an individual's biggest impact if their political impact is larger, and it could be many many times larger.)

[@jacintas75]

something that resonated with me is the comment that there's an infinite resource of these sociopaths. So the one approach may be a mass movement, but what about finding the right leaders? Are there scientists or people like George (George himself?!) who can run for influential political positions? And perhaps in this way the fascination of the media with e.g., a parallel with leonardo dicaprio's 'hot scientist' can be harnessed as the social/cultural cachet that seems so needed to get any attention and get any positive action accomplished. It's unfortunate that that is what it takes, but there's no denying we need to appeal to mainstream social/cultural mores and interests. Another amazing piece of mainstream not-so-fictional fiction is Kim Robinson's book Ministry for the Future. To echo the accolades you both shared with each other, you are both inspirations and sources of strength for us all. Thank you!

[@heartcommgroup]

Always wonderful to hear such wise and caring voices in these crazy times. Thanks so much to both of you, we're looking forward to more.

[@deirdreryan6253]

If we switched into emergency mode every place of learning, universities etc would have all students and academics switch their focus to climate science solutions. In an enlightened world all our military funding would be diverted into climate solutions. How can a global awakening happen in time to change course?

[@A3Kr0n]

We just got to.... The phrase I've heard ALL MY LIFE.

[@LeanAndMean44]

Have you watched „Breaking Boundaries“? I think it raises many important points (as well as communicating the science of the biodiversity and climate crises), and in it there are multiple scientists who get emotional.

[@JugglinJellyTake01]

Government attitudes to climate is to continue to walk towards the train in the tunnel heading towards us while encouraging us to lob hardcore from the rail bed in the general direction of the train.

[@whel-auxnavigatesthedystop8709]

It's the same as knowing the scientific fact of one's own mortality. We're used to denying our own personal extinction. Hopefully nature will save us by terrifying us into immediate action with some sudden shocking changes.

[@VillageVegan]

Great discussion, however the discussion was focussed on fossil fuels (which needs to be addressed) however why wasn’t animal agriculture mentioned as the IPCC have stated we won’t reach our climate goals without removing this industry? UN have said eliminating animal products is the single biggest impact a person can take.

[@robertpounds4842]

Must admit I don’t even know how to talk about this anymore , the push back in all spheres of life beggar’s belief . I don’t see how this isn’t going to end without a violent conclusion

[@harmhoeks5996]

Really underrated and emotional conservation

[@sapeaudsecolo4953]

Thanks for sharing and connecting to us all ....👏

[@pauleaton3578]

Will the rich and the governments of the world wake up? Are these leaders really intelligent? Knowledge is so important. The blinkers need to come off.

[@JugglinJellyTake01]

Thanks for this , looking forward to the 6 hour slot. You could squeeze two or maybe three such episodes in lock on tube.

[@markram3]

Regarding temperature sensitive systems, I would say that most people have felt 1.5 "temperature increase in their bones", especially with Covid. Living with 38.1 degrees is not pleasant. Imagine how you would feel, and the biological consequences of a permanent 2, or 3 degree increase to your average body temperature. I hope that somewhere, someone is already developing a climate aspirin, although I wonder if it would just enable us to do more damage.

[@shelleywinters6763]

I think it would be a great start if we could get the pollutants out of the atmosphere. During the global shutdowns due to covid-19, suddenly you can see the Taj Mahal, fish are coming into the canals of Venice and the water is clear, from satelite images you can see the smog shifted from over China etc. It was beautiful. At a minimum, right now, I would want govt to do something about air and water pollution. Another thing govt can stop doing NOW is STOP SUBSIDISING COAL POWERED ELECTRICITY GENERATION! subsidise renewables instead. FFS, I was stunned when I found out they subsidise it!

[@ALphaMach1ne]

Science has a broad range of responses to it, even from those who fully understand what Science is. One exercise, if done right, could massively broaden its respect. If all the old predictions could be visually linked to the real world results, eg- 30k Papers predicted X and it happened on this date, 45k Papers predict Y, and that was 87% done on this date. It might have more impact if it was tuned, so let's say all the Papers for 30/20/10/5 years ago, to keep it manageable and easier to digest by punters. It'd be nice to be able to say something along the lines of "We've been right 7 million times so far, here's where."

[@joonauusitalo5257]

❤️❤️❤️

[@louisehoff]

Corporations are very often 'psychopathic', as described in the documentary "The Corporation" (1973) - and greedy investors demanding more and more profit earnings oblivious to the social/environmental fallout perhaps as wel.

[@pepealexandre8815]

Please do that 6 hour conversation! 👍

[@LarryCleveland]

I think I'll start asking people who they play in the documentary.

[@simeonbanner6204]

Problem is race, sexual identity, trans etc plays well, gets people all stoked up, and the media loves the debates that go on and on until the next "issue". Climate change should be a movement integrating everybody but it's not being presented in that way. Maybe like the two men in the video when you are educated, have the means, time, job to inform yourself you feel differently. The working class are so busy just getting on. Universal basic income and things would help. Maybe that's why governments don't like the idea.

[@mikeharvey9811]

We’ve protested enough, we’ve lost interest, we need a different way! Last protest in Bristol 300 protesters ……enough said. Barb

[@tobiaszb]

After we finish emitting, the temperature for some years would go rise even more, because of lack of reflective clouds and aerosols produced from burning. It seems that some way of (natural, ocean) co2 capture should be made and maybe radiation reflection on a massive scale (MEER project?).

[@emceegreen8864]

Kim Stanley Robinson’s Ministry for the Future shows a path forward through our present crisis. Is it possible to avoid complete collapse?

[@kathybehlen7088]

👏👏👏😔

[@clairebeyond]

Why no mention of animal ag? People hear that emissions need to fall but feel.powerless to do anything since they have no control over energy production and cannot maybe afford to change their car. Far far greater as a personal footprint is meat consumption. Could you both use your.platforms to promote meat reduction more forcefully! A rapid end to fossil fuel is needed but not the only solution available and probably not the fastest to accomplish either (whereas reducing livestock numbers is achieved by simply stopping breeding). BTW how is food to be shipped without fossil fuel?

[@harmhoeks5996]

So how to mentally survive?

[@singingway]

Key quote from the movie: "if we don't win the midterms we won't be able to do anything anyway"-- Let's address THIS! It's the biggest obstacle to government taking meaningful action. People: "we want a climate mobilization at the speed and scale necessary for success" / Government: "Okay I'll implement these policies" / Fossil Fuel Industry to Government: "If you DO ANY of those initiatives you'll be OUT OF OFFICE, probably even before your term ends. We'll run dark money and disinformation campaigns against you, and if you're in South America, we'll assassinate you. / Government: "if I'm out of office I won't be able to get ANYTHING done for climate!"

[@stephaniehenderson6631]

I am so afraid that we will begin fracking again in the UK with watered down safeguarding. It will be on my doorstep in the North est of England, but it will spread as it will be a huge moneymaking deal.This is because of the threat from Putin and his fossil fuel supplies. How I pray that the Government will invest heavily in renewable and sustainable energy instead, but I fear the worst. I am one of those who find it hard to sleep at night.

[@jonathangreenblume8583]

1,400 views.

[@clairebeyond]

Now over 5k but still too little. Why is George's channel being followed by so few people?

[@allanjboysen2491]

The earth cries for help, never the dark valley type, these hooliganism at Davos, Nato doomer's, are just common pick-pockteer's(puffing them selves up). All the usual suspect's. Some from the 70's the 90's, Soro's pre-dates the bronze age. It's 'high noon' or more so, two minuteman away from midnight. And every breath swallow, all but shut out of the talk's. It's the wannabe A team, like from the 80's sitcom. The guns the bomb's for oil and surrendered foe's, is all but a pipe dream. What it is, is failed leadership, with hopes the first stumble doesn't cascade into a full on faceplant, which is looking more than likely. Convincing a few so that other's follow, is hubris considering. Your plans have irritated the people your suppose to protect, it look's like fractions are in the alliances. Looking further out the spectrum the world view suggests they cant take you seriously, the gig is up. This tantrum will dissipate, and the thugs will go home hungry like all of us, and pointless sabre rattling appeased. Yea, that's one nuke nightmare hangover we can all do without, thank's, get back to a good recession. Great plan guy's. Now your -secound -third- anyway. You made good choices for your conrades allright..... However the mayhem of the scrambling baffoon's over oil, and resources. Is a grab of desperation. History will take note to what lengths were taken, the suffering will continue for sometime after this fiasco. But it's also the opening of a new age of solar. That energy war's fought through blood are day's gone. This theater type of war is no more, civilization has woken to it's ridiculousness. Green renewable's and a thriving circular economy is the missing void, and is now the time to shine. This isn't random, the worst atrocious act's of inhumanity was to show on balance our standing. The accidental exposures, the unjust imprisonment, the miss-infomation, censorship, all lessons, all fresh data troves. "Huff and well puff" "All but fear itself" "Stay free" most of all.

[@carinwiseman4309]

You make the mistake of blaming everything on the fossil fuel companies when it is US as much as them. If they cut off oil tomorrow, you and I would howl that we need it. Unfortunately, our society has developed in a direction that has made us all slaves to the system, and most of us are completely helpless to support ourselves on this planet without oil. This cannot be fixed in a short period of time.

[@fergusologhlen8426]

Peter and George, you haven’t discussed the elephant in the room. Animal agriculture industry is the worst offender contributing to climate change, , more so than all the transportation including global air travel put together .. are you bringing your kids up vegan? You only mentioned the AAI only briefly once and focused on fossil fuels..

[@davidwalden444]

George has written at length about his switch to veganism and how damaging animal agriculture is

[@sandycooper9593]

😘 Promo-SM!!